₦airaland Forum

Kukutente23:
You don't know me. So don't hide under calling me a kid. Let's stick to the fact. 20k in 2008 was about 300% of the minimum wage then. If we extrapolate it to today, that should be around 210k for the 70k minimum wage. Now I'm asking you how many people are earning 210k today as farm manager in Nigeria. Besides as at the exchange rate of N85 to a dollar then, 20k you're earning will be $235. As at today, 210k which is the direct equivalent in wage terms is $140. So are you richer or poorer than the equivalent earner today? Answer that yourself! I won't even go into rent issues. That's a totally dead end.

Telecoms and banking are part of the services sector of the economy. Comparing them directly with agriculture which is a sector on its own shows you don't even understand what is being said here. Under Agric, we have livestock, crop, agric processing etc.
More importantly, agriculture largely exist in the informal sector of the economy while telecoms and banking are part of the organised private sector which is what I'm referring to. Those two are easily the largest employer of labour in the organised sector.
That said, if we're to go to the informal sector, I believe that claim that Agric is the largest employer is outdated. Most Nigerians today are into trading. From petty trading to larger shops and outlets. Trading is the largest employer of labour in today's Nigeria not agriculture

20k in 2008 was still nothing and could not keep anyone for a month my boy.

OneCandleAway:
Lol

I ended the conversation on a humane note though. If you continue reading you'll see my final response.

I saw it already. When I saw the amount he mentioned, I worried because at that time I easily earned over 2000% more than of that. And we are talking some twenty years ago. Therefore my heart tugged at what he was saying: there was suffering in there.

I didnt feel it was right to make assumptions the way you did. Anyway, for a short time, I will be watching you.

OneCandleAway:
Because if you're from a poor background, you know you need to work harder in school if you don't have connection. If you're from a privileged background it's only training you know you're doing at a fish farm to eventually set up your own business. And you'll list your time there as a training not as a setback.

I can bet you didn't finish with 2.1

This is kinda harsh.

mikeapollo:
Some people just like to write anything to make themselves happy. They want the Jews to accept what they (Arabs) can never ever tolerate.
Just imagine if the Romans had defeated and sacked the Arabs from Mecca, Medina and other important towns or places in Saudi Arabia including the Kaaba. And then some centuries later, the Jews take over Mecca, Medina claiming the land belongs to them. One can just imagine the total carnage, destruction and religious war (Jihad) that would have been declared everywhere against all Jews and possibly other tribes and/or religions.

Feel free to mention my name. No need to call me "some people."
Good morning.

casualobserver:
. I have since been schooled that Oranmiyan returned to ile-Ife to reclaim his throne leaving his sons as Alaafin and Ooni.

I want to thank you specially for this. Not many people have the intellectual honesty to reverse and make an annotation to correct something they passed on. Bless you.

dawnomike:
Only few Nigerian policemen are sane...

Give a foolish black man a gun and he thinks he is god over another man... Gove a stupid white man a gun and he thinks he has the power to take life at will.

Thank heavens you balanced it.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

MaxInDHouse:
These Isrealites weren't philosophers or researchers rather they were simple men within their people unlike Greeks who were ruling the known world at that time always arguing over what each of them discovers instead when Israelite prophets pen down any information they are straight to the point they don't expect anyone to debate with them because they don't know how to defend what a spirit revealed to them so let's be realistic and HUMBLE to accept the truth that God revealed these things to His own servants!

What is the use of revealing a thing that scientists, thinkers and co are already discovering, even if shortly later by a couple of centuries? That is demeaning to the supposed majesty of Divine revelation. Is that the sort of thing Divinity reveals?

Idaytesj29:
Yeah 1917, the declaration came first. Before other lobbying and support of US and Britain make it a reality.

Without US and British might, the state wouldn't have been created. And all these atrocious actions of Israel is because they know they have Western backing not any God's chosen clause or anything.
Everyone on this earth is Gods creation, loved and chosen by God. He never discriminates.

Correct!

Idaytesj29:
Israel of today is not a creation of UN.

It was created by the British Jewish lobby through the Balfour Declaration and massive military and financial support that came through for them from US and western countries. All other recognition came after

Balfour Declaration was during the 1st world war, 1917.

UN played the pivotal role in creating Israel through United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, in 1947.

MaxInDHouse:
I'm not saying they got it from Isaiah but what we heard is that while these people are still debating as in arguing among themselves whether it is true or not the God of Israel has inspired Isaiah to pen it down accurately!

How do you knw they simply didnt reason it out as well. There was much ancient knowledge you know?

NnamdiPapa you have not answered me.

Are you busy with a carnivore meal?

MaxInDHouse:
Isaiah wrote the book bearing his name in the year 732 BC
So God has inspired him before anyone and what about gravity that's hanging the earth upon nothing as written by Moses around 1657 BC?
Or has that also been known before it was revealed to Moses?

The Greeks didnt get it from Isaiah, and if they could have reasoned it out themselves, then others could have as well.

MaxInDHouse:
Now you've proved to be humble for real!
Please who taught you the above and in which school?
Because i was taught long before i knew the Bible that people in ancient times thought the earth was flat.

Greeks for example, knew it was round long long ago.

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The earliest documented knowledge that the Earth is round dates back to ancient Greek philosophers in the 5th century BC. While earlier cultures often depicted the world as a flat disc, Greek thinkers began to propose a spherical Earth based on observation and reasoning.

Key Figures and Arguments
The idea of a spherical Earth wasn't a sudden discovery but rather a developing concept supported by several philosophers over time:

Pythagoras (c. 570–c. 500 BC): While the evidence is debated, some sources credit him with being the first to suggest a spherical Earth. His reasoning was more philosophical than empirical, believing the sphere to be the most "perfect" and harmonious geometric shape.

Plato (c. 427–c. 347 BC): Plato referenced the concept of a round Earth in his writings, indicating it was an emerging idea during his time.

Aristotle (c. 384–c. 322 BC): Aristotle provided the first strong empirical arguments for a spherical Earth. He observed that:

The Earth's shadow on the Moon during a lunar eclipse is always round. The only shape that consistently casts a circular shadow is a sphere.

As one travels north or south, the positions of stars change. For example, the North Star appears lower in the sky as one moves south. This is only possible on a curved surface.

When a ship sails away, its hull disappears below the horizon before its mast and sails. This phenomenon can only be explained by the ship traveling over a curved surface.

Measuring the Earth's Circumference
Building upon this knowledge, the Hellenistic astronomer Eratosthenes (c. 276–c. 194 BC) took the next major step. Around 240 BC, he not only accepted that the Earth was round but also calculated its circumference with remarkable accuracy using a simple but brilliant method.

He knew that in the city of Syene (modern Aswan, Egypt), the sun was directly overhead at noon on the summer solstice, casting no shadows.

At the same time, in Alexandria, a stick cast a small shadow, indicating the sun was not directly overhead.

By measuring the angle of the shadow in Alexandria and knowing the distance between the two cities, he used geometry to calculate the Earth's circumference. His result was surprisingly close to the modern value.

This knowledge was widespread among educated people in the ancient and medieval worlds, debunking the common misconception that people before Christopher Columbus believed the Earth was flat.

--------

Culled.

MaxInDHouse:
Surely you don't know the real meaning of humility!

When you are humble you don't think of how to argue rather what will benefit you and all your neighbors so even though the information seems absurd or illogical a humble person will seek to know what benefit it will bring.

Take for instance in some thousands of years ago nobody believes that this planet as big as it is could be hanging on nothing {Job 26:7} nobody believes that this planet could be round (spherical) {Isaiah 40:22} nobody believes that water is recircling and that it's the same thing we are using for thousands of year! Job 36:27-28

WHY?

Because all these things sounds absurd, illogical, superstitious with no common sense!

But what do we have today?

Well let's assume you could travel back to speak with people claiming intelligent back then it's exactly what you just said now that they will tell you.

So where is the humility if all what you want to do is stick to the knowledge people around you called LOGICAL?

Point of correction, people have known the Earth is spherical for millenia.

Unbiased1:
Question 1: Do you believe that the Jews are God's chosen people and the "Holy Land" is theirs by right of Divine appointment and covenant?
People view the issue in Palestine either from a religious point or a historic point of view. I view things more from a historical point of view, which I think is rich enough to defend my support for Israel. This does not mean that those who view things from a religious point of view are totally wrong, especially when it's clear that we are dealing with a terrorist group that started this war, not to create a Palestinian state, but to achieve Jihad based on what was issued in their religious book. Also, we can't completely rule out the religious books, as those books document actual historical events. So do I think Jews are God's chosen people, hell YES. In my own tradition, I'm also a special person. As long as you believe in the Jewish God, then YES, the Jews are the chosen people of their God, as boldly written in the Torah and Old Testament, but for the sake of Logic, let's leave out the religious views and focus only on the historical point of view.

Alright, thank you for this. However, notwithstanding that you have said we should focus only on the historical, I must emphasize that it is crucial that the religious considerations are put away in this matter. This is because religion tends to be subjective and anyone can claim their God/ god or gods gave them any given set of promises or directives. I can wake up tomorrow and say I have heard from my God that the whole Earth is the inheritance of my descendants alone and that I am mandated to exterminate everyone else. This should not be invalid because afterall, Abraham was just one man like me - if his god could speak to him and make promises to him, so can mine. I don't want to go as far as to mention all of the barbaric genocidal injunctions given by Yahweh to the Jews in the Bible, but it is worth mentioning - to establish a pattern - to show that what is happening today is not new - and thus it is not just a question of Arabs being the problem.

Historically Jews have insisted that their blood thirsty pagan mountain deity called Yahweh has issued genocidal commands to them, and it is by means of these commands that they even came to posess the so called promised land. Therefore, let us stay well away from any such religious claims for all can play that game, as indeed the Arabs and Muslims also have, through history.

Question 2: Do you believe that Palestinians have a right to sovereignty of their own?
All indigenous people have the right to self-determination. The Jews sought self-determination in 1937, but it was rejected by the Arabs. The Jews sought self-determination in 1947/1948, but it was once again rejected by the Arabs. This time around, the Arabs declared war and lost. The Palestinians have the right to sovereignty, but they are fully responsible for their lack of independence today. The Arabs had gotten Jordan, which was 78% of Palestine. The British banned Jews from settling there, and so Jordan was 100% Arab. The UN proceeded to split the remaining 22% in half in 1947, giving 56% of it to the Jews and 44% to the Arabs. This was the best for the Arabs to accept their independence in peace, but they chose war instead. After they lost the war, they had 20 years, from 1948 - 1967, to declare their independence, but they instead prepared for another war, a war that changed the region forever.

So here is what is at issue. Ownership of land is a delicate thing. The way land rights have always worked, it is simply impossible to deny the rights of an occupant who had dwelt in a place for centuries. Thus, the example of the Europeans in America I hitherto used. They travelled there, met Native Americans there - conquered them and virtually wiped them off the surface of the Earth through the gun and disease. Today, Europeans have held America for some three to four centuries. The time which has passed has bequeathed them what you may call a right of occupancy. Whether they came there justly or unjustly, the time which has passed is sufficient to render it legitimate that their descendants now dwell there rightly. Thus, even though a purist like myself may argue that if the Native Americans summon the will, the resources and the technology today and are able to push the "encroachers" out of America, it is right and fair, in all truth, too much time has passed.

In this same way, the history of the matter is that roughly two thousand years ago, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and scattered the Jews into diaspora. They went into Persia but mostly into Europe where they suffered much persecution through the middle ages, the renaissance, the enlightenment and all the way through to the 20th century where they sufferred the holocaust.

In the intervening time, Islam had arisen in the 7th Century AD, and by the turn of the millenium the crusades had begun in which troupe after troupe of christian armies generation after generation sought to displace the Muslims from the "Holy Land." This went back and forth over a couple of centuries and the land would alternate between Islamic and Christian authority - all the time retaining a small Jewish population. I am sure you know of the great encounters between Richard the Lion Heart and Saladin. And too many more stories of that period. The long and short of it is that the presensce of Arabs in that land dates back at least one thousand years now.

And the argument I am making is that if European Americans can now consider North America their homeland after being there for a few centuries, how much more the Arabs who have been in Palestine for over a thousand years?

Now, moving on, by the time the second world war ended, I hope you know that the British had made promises to the Jews via Zionists that they would create a homeland for them in Palestine. At that time, the place was mostly occupied by Arabs like I said, for about a thousand years already. It is unreasonable to claim that it was not home to them. Besides, the European Jews who were returning had been so adulterated that one cannot really claim that they are necessarily of the same ancestry as the Israelites of old. Frankly, most of them today are noticeably white.

Nevertheless, they came back. What did you expect? Did you expect that the Arbas there would not resist? Of course they would. It is only natural. Just as if Native Americans make a come back today from tthe settlements they have been restricted to, to take up most of America, do you dare to think that the current European descendants who control that country will not fiercely resist them? Of course they will.

I have written a lot so far so let me just summarize: the point is that compromises must be made. Israel of today is a creation of the United Nations and that same United Nations has repeatedly said that the settlements in the West Bank are illegal. You keep referring to Palestinians as savages and that is absurd. It is not savage to fight to defend your land. Especially from an occupier who imposes apartheid restrictions on you the same way white people did to black people in apartheid South Africa.

You call them terrorists, but I hope you know the whites also called Nelson Mandela a terrorist? I hope you know the USA kept him on their terrorism watchlist up till 2008? What does that teach you? It shoudl teach you that those who resist European imperialism are routinely labelled terrorists - even when they are actually the victims of terrorism.

There is a historical reason both Ireland and South Africa stand solidly with Palestine - and it is because BOTH countries have experienced EXACTLY what Palestine is experiencing right now - the arrogation of power by other people and oppression in their own native lands and homes.

With due respect, no one comes back to a land after 2, 000 years to assert that he owns it because his ancestors lived there. Many different peoples ancestors have lived on the same land throughout time.

What is of particular concern today is the fact that Israel literaly cages Palestine. It controls its borders. It determines what goes in and what goes out. In the West Bank there are selected roads for Jews and selected roads for Palestinians. That is apartheid in its purest and most undeniable form. And that is a sin against the conscience of humanity.

So when many people talk all the time ignorantly saying that this started on Octover 7, with due respect, it did not. October 7 was at best a reaction against occupation. And just look at the toll. Do you want to compare 1, 200 to over 60, 000? Where is the proportionality? You have the world's biggest super power cooperating and funding to exterminate such a powerless people. How is that just? I hope you know over 145 of the members of the United Nations recognise Palestine as a state but they are still being denied statehood simply because of US veto power. And yet you yourself acknowledged the right to self determination. Today, European states which all supported Israel in this matter are moving towards recognising Palestine by next month all because of how far Israel has gone in its cruelty. It has become a sore wound on the conscience of the world. There is an extent you can go to even when you are right in a matter in which the world will turn against you when you have gone too far - not that Israel was right anyway in this. Enough said for now.

Question 3: Do you believe that there have been wrongs on both sides?
You are right to claim that there have been wrongs on both sides. No one is above mistakes. There will always be miscalculations.

In the case of Israel, there is a deliberate effort to mass murder Palestinians. Not mere miscalculations.

Let me add: Are you aware Netanyahu sponsored Hamas? You dont seem to know the game being played.

cc:

Kukutente23
Tctrills
Mikeapollo
IdaytesJ29

wirinet:
Is this not an insult to black Africans? So people from certain countries would be imprisoned in certain areas, and not be free to move to any other prefecture? Us this going to be an open air prison like Gaza. Maybe we too should start restricting Japanes (and Chinese) to specific locations inside Nigeria. Chinese should be restricted to Ogbomosho, and the Japanese restricted to Umuahia.

I dont think its anything to do with a restriction of movement or trade. It may have to do with residency privileges under local laws (akin to indigeneship in Nigeria).

We no get shame at all, imagine a small country like Japan with less than 130 million people summoning the whole African continent of more than 1.5 billion people, and our people running like beggars to meet them.

This one I dont understand at all oooooh. Why all of Africa is regularly summoned by one country just beats me.

MaxInDHouse:
You just repeated exactly what i said but it seems you missed a vital part of it:

Nobody is willing to accept knowledge that is not superior to what he formally had so before you can convince someone you need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that what you have is beneficial to one and all.

Do you have such?

I dont claim to have any superior knowledge. But I challenge the bold. I challenge it for many of the religious who many times are prone to accept absurdities and obvious superstitions above logic and common sense.

MaxInDHouse:
All normal humans gets tired of whatever isn't working out well so you are not alone that is where humility comes in and what is humility?

Humility is the characteristic of being humble or let's say non-boastful, modest, meager, submissive.

This means a humble person doesn't rely solely on accumulated information he or she got rather a humble person looks forward to a practical application of accumulated information which comes with real benefits.

For instance i was a Muslim the tendency is there that i may not welcome any information that's contrary to what i was fed as a Muslim but humility and righteousness will compel me to welcome superior knowledge that comes along with practical application which has real benefits only the true God and the religion He established can achieve that! Matthew 7:17-18

I am not quite sure what you have described is humility. It veers more towards open mindedness.

In these matters, humility is the understanding that we know little or nothing and are very small in the scheme of things as well as the preparedness to accept that our views and understandings may be limited or wrong.

Are you prepared to accet that?

Kukutente23:
This is a funny question to ask. How many people did banks and telecoms employ? Really? You mean they stopped employing after OBj left office? Do you know how many service providers and contractors have been blessed grim the two sectors?
It's even funny to hear people who defend fuel price increase from 200-1000 claim that people groaned under N20 increase in fuel price which was usually met with stiff resistance from labour. Obj's time was better. My mother was a teacher then. After Obj increase minimum wage, she changed our interior decor and even started a side business. How many civil servants can even afford rent today after minium wage increase not to talk of starting a side business? Are you guys not telling people to go and farm after closing from work?

I just dont understand them. OBJ's time was virtually paradisical compared to the reign of the current High Prince of Hell Fire.

casualobserver:
. I have since been schooled that Oranmiyan returned to ile-Ife to reclaim his throne leaving his sons as Alaafin and Ooni.

Wow. Please enlighten me.

Unbiased1:
At this point, Israel can't exterminate all the Palestinians

If they could, would you support such?

Unbiased1:
A former Prime Minister of Israel once said, "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.", Golda Meir.

Do you also know that two former Prime Ministers of Israel have called what Israel is currently doing a genocide?

Anyway no matter. You will probably call that politcal.

I doubt you will ever see the other side of the matter but I will present my take nonetheless later.

Kukutente23:
Yeah
I remember he was one of the students of your university
Tell us how much of Rivers money he pushed into the university
So if Amaechi becomes candidate of ADC and offers you the VP ticket, ADC will no longer be deceiving Nigerians?
You see now that this man's problem with ADC is the loss of VP candidacy for him if Obi runs on the platform?

Obviously!

LordReed:
Naa, DeepSight is not a Bible thumper. I would say he is a deist but I dunno if he uses that label for himself.

I used to call myself deist ("a rational and intuitive deist" were my specific words, lol) in my early Nairaland days. I have since tired of all labels especially as this thing we call reality is just an utter enigma. I can no longer specifically tell if even the deist god I evisioned back then exists. At a philosophical level, I still grapple with existential thoughts everyday and remain very humble and teachable in this regard.

Nnamdipapa:
At the end, he will need to take from the Bible to justify the eternal and self-exitent attributes of his European god because I have never seen logic justifying such attributes.

I still await your response and FYI not only am I non religious but I hold the Abrahamic religions in particular in great contempt.

LordReed:
We inferred it by the evidence not mere speculation.

Let me hear you well. You are saying that -

1. When one says that a thing cannot expand if there is no space to expand into - that is speculation?

2. That events can occur outside a timeline?

JuanDeDios:
Yeah, it would. But I was talking about credible suspicion - like, everyonne knows IBB stole a lot, even far more than Abacha. But that's all there is to it: everyone knows.

Also note that from my first response, I've been concerned mainly about issue of stashing funds abroad: that's what I'm theorizing to be a (mainly) African disease. I theorize thus because even the worst dictators from outside the continent (Stalin, HItler, Franco, Mao, Than Shue, Suharto, Saddam, Xi Jipin, Kim Jung-un, Erdogan, Maduro, Lukashenko, Nyazov [Turkmenbashi], etc.) kept/keep it mostly within their countries.

Fairly said even if I am not sure that all of them did (Hitler for example did not touch Switzerland for financial reasons), and as a fellow Fascist, this could benefit a Franco. A Mao was never going to store things abroad when he was shutting down China. Saddam at odds with the west could not. Neither can Kim Jung Un - North Korea in the past actually had to resort to extreme measures some of which have included the printing of fake USD. Suharto famously had $9 billion of his stash traced from Switzerland to Austria. And so on and so forth.

The summary of the reason African leaders in particular will store funds abroad is because of the weakness of African systems and the fact that the countries are so undeveloped that they feel they cannot access the height of global society, global investment, global power and global luxury in such backwaters.

mikeapollo:
You expect me to stand where you stand before you believe I have enough knowledge necessary for the topic? So funny.
I said Palestinians should leave Israel alone.
Israel gave them jobs and accomidation to live and work in Israel but they were throwing bombs, shooting and killing Israelis.

Go and read Quran Chapter 5 vs 20-22 and see what Allah said about the land of Israel . ]

The bold is evidence of your duplicity. That is not what you said. You said they should leave the land and find somewhere else to live. That is ethnic cleansing. "Leave Israel alone" has an entirely different meaning and you know it.

The red is beyond disingenous. Someone above, IdaytesJ29, urged you not to tell naked lies.

As for the Quoran, you cannot teach me about what a barbaric book it is. I know it is. Just as the Old Testament of the Bible which the Jews subscribe to is equally barbaric. These are terrible religions which have very lamentable moral codes in certain matters. I am not a religious person. But for you, Israel are God's people and God has promised them the land. I dont believe in any such thing.

That belief is what is at the root of your total support for Israel. And in that, you dont even care that they reject your Christ.

NothingDoMe:
20 hostages to bargain what exactly? That israel withdraws her forces? At this point there's hardly anything they can achieve by holding on to the hostages.

Maybe you are not aware of the exchange rate in terms of hostages. 1 Israeli hostage can go for scores of Palestinian hostages (what the world prefers to call prisoners).

NothingDoMe:
Why not release the hostages so that it can be clear what it is really about?

They need bargaining chips. Its the same way Israel and its supporters say they should disarm. And leave themselves lame-ducks right? As though they are not powerless enough already in the face of an all powerful occupying apartheid power.

mikeapollo:
Is this how you discus or debate online? The guy you tagged to ask the question also posted to contribute to the discussion going on on the same topic.
Okay, let me leave you in peace since it ibecoming a personal issue now.
Israel does not have any intention to fight or destroy people that live in peace with it. Egypt and Jordan are clear examples.

There is nothing personal. I dont know you. But you have already shown duplicity in both saying that the Palestinians should simply leave (to where, heaven knows) and then claiming that Israel is willing to accept them into Israel. It is more than clear to me where you stand and I also don't believe that you have the knowledge necessary for this discussion.