₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
Dude do you want to count how many times you've asked me to look something up? So now it is a bad thing bah? LoLz.

Alright. Well I imagine if I ask you to look something up, it's a specific thing. Asking me to look up the broad subject of the nature of the universe is quite different as it touches on various things including quantum physics.

Anyway pardon me there. Now, let me go the to the issues.

You see, my friend, there are all too many things that strict materialists tend to skip over when hard scientific questions are being posed on existential matters. If you point a strict evolutionist to the logical gaps in the theory of evolution they tend to wave it all away by pointing to the millions and millions of years that the process took - even where it is clear that not even eternity would suffice to remedy the logical gaps pointed out. In the same way when very serious logical gaps are pointed out to strict materialists in terms of the prevailing cosmic model of the origin and nature of the universe, they tend to quickly drop the excuse you just did - namely that what comes to us intuitively breaks down at a quantum level etc. it's generally escapist. When you speak of the fundamental principles of causality for example (without which no rational discussion can ever be had) they will tell you that causality breaks down at the quantum level. What is their evidence for this? Generally they will point to virtual particles in a quantum vacuum as proof that something can emerge from nothing. This of course fails because not even a quantum vacuum is nothing. It contains low gaseous pressure and so of course the argument fails. Nonetheless they will leave the matter at that, since they have dropped the word "quantum" believing that that word is a get of jail free card. It is not. This is specifically why I said your excuse was way to often used.

Let us just settle down and look at the prevailing cosmic model of the universe. We are told that the universe had a beginning. That it expanded from the point of a singularity with the big bang. No one of course properly defines what exactly that singularity was. We move on nonetheless. But you see, so long as a singularity existed, and there was a moment when an expansion commenced, that was an event. And events only happen within a timeline.

The problem here is that the prevailing model says that time and space were both created at the moment of the big bang. This is absurd because the bang being an event, could only possibly occur within an already existing timeline. This means that time already existed. Furthermore the very fact of expansion itself tells us that the expanding singularity was expanding into something. There is no such thing as nothingness anywhere in existence and there is no perfect void or vacuum as well. Therefore the expansion could only be happening into already existing space. It is utterly incoherent, incongruous and meaningless to say it is expanding into nothing, or it is just expanding without there being any space to expand into. That fails.

Accordingly we can tell that both time and space pre-exist the universe. This is why I feel it is wrong to claim that the universe is all that exists. Time and space exist before and beyond it. Both time and space are eternal and infinite and self existent by their very nature. They are part of the default components of reality.

So if we return to the fundamental question as to whether you can know anything outside the universe, there is alot to discuss. But I must warn you again about this question of saying that this universe is all that exists. At sometime, people may have said the same of the solar system or of our Milky Way Galaxy. People may have thought that our galaxy was the universe. Likewise in time we may well find other universes beyond this one.

When I gave you the imagery of the womb and the sea recall that I said I was leaving you with images. I didn't mean them as exact analogies the way you began to take them by saying that the baby and the fish cannot reason. I was taken aback by that which is why I said "Sweet Jesus." I was only presenting you with imagery of beings that dwell in a space where they cannot know or understand that other life and spaces exist beyond their realm.

LordReed:
LoLz. See this is where your intuitions will fail you. You think these is an outside but there isn't at least not one you or anybody can demonstrate. I am not well versed in cosmology to explain it to you, look it up to get a better handle on it.

I am not looking anything up - three reasons. One, I dont need to. Two. This is such a lame excuse too often used. Three. I never expected such a line from you of all people.

Having Lunch. Will be back.

LordReed:
It's just expanding. There is no something it is expanding into.

For a rational person you surprise me. So in your voodoo world, a thing can expand when there is no space for it to expand into? Does that make any sense whatsoever.

And you talk about incoherence?

Kukutente23:
Let me ask you a question. Why do you think someone like Kwankwaso or any of those big names refused to Vice Obi in 2023 and he had to go for a relatively unknown Datti and what do you think has changed this time?

You are free to call northerners names. The fact still remain that this is politics we are talking about and they are not followers of your Obi just as they are not followers of Tinubu.

In voting Obi what will be paramount will be political interest not hunger. Can you with all certainty promise anyone that if Obi becomes president, he will end their hunger? People are not fools you know. The fact is Obi is a southerner just like Tinubu. If the South want only 8 years, Tinubu has done 4 and cannot do more than another 4. Obi on the other hand has the possibility of an 8 year rule. Tell me, if you were in the shoe of the northerners, which will be your safest bet for getting political power back to your region in 2031?

Jonathan.

LordReed:
That is a funny question. The universe is all that exists so you are asking if humans can explore beyond all that exists. Can you see how that dissolves into incoherence?

If the universe is all that exists, into what is the universe expanding?

Waste of a list once it doesn't include Tinubu and IBB.

LordReed:
I disagree. Neither fish nor babies in the womb have the capacity to actually explore and investigate their environment systematically and rigorously, we do, that is why the analogy fails. If there are these "beings sitting outside" they are just as irrelevant as nonexistent beings.

Do you think men have the capacity to explore beyond the universe.

LordReed:
So? Let's grant that they do, it still doesn't rise to the level of reasoning required.

Anyway, I hope you appreciate that this is irrelevant. And completely beside the point of the analogy made.

Even if we were to grant your take, consider that to any beings sitting outside the "womb" or "sea" of our universe, we took would be quite as dumb as fish.

LordReed:
So? Let's grant that they do, it still doesn't rise to the level of reasoning required.

Anyway, I hope you appreciate that this is irrelevant. And completely beside the point of the analogy made.

Lol. But this is a gathering of very tiny African Countries. If they had invited the heavyweights like Kenya, SA, Egypt etc and left us out, that would be an issue. Not this.

LordReed:
If it were the case they would be communicating amongst themselves the fate of those who eat the worm but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Research. They do.

Love800:
So this lady is greater than Yvonne Chaka chaka and Brenda Fassie!

The woman stand gidigba oh. And her music make sense die.

LordReed:
LoLz. Ok lemme qualify my statement they are not capable of higher reasoning.

Better.

Nevertheless in the analogy given, there are still fish that with some level of experience know that the worm is being dangled by a man sitting outside the sea.

Also, even with your qualification, still be careful. We asre not in the minds of animals and we presume alot especially as we dont understand their language. The things that some dolphins and even dogs do should give cause for pause on our presumptions.

marlow1962:
The jobless wife of the president can have 1bn to donate, but the hardworking citizens with PhDs and Bsc`s can't boast of 100k in their account. Yet the jobless wife of the president and her family is bent on milking the citizens off their last penny.

Jobless son of president with no trace of having any establishment known and beneficial to the country and it's citizens, can have and donate 500 million.

Jobless wife of the same president with no known establishment known and beneficial to the country and it's citizens, can have and donate 1bn

But the average citizen struggling to make ends meal, is outrageously taxed to his/her last penny, subjected to live in an poorly kept country, with no job, infact no access to simple basic rights and yet made to give account of that last 10k in their bank balance or they get thrown in jail. And yet my people keep ass licking their oppressors because of tribe.

What an interesting time to be alive.

Its things like this that caused the French Revolution.

Image123:
i see, that's Gani 2003 campaign. i was once more prude than you, i won't even choose any. But now, i am a little more pragmatic and practical about it, otherwise i don't even bother. For example and i say this here for the first time, i didn't bother to vote or waste my time for PMB's 2nd term. But i was here defending him. Like i said earlier, he was disappointing and i said so also here, but not at the expense of gifting the seat to people like Atiku or Obi. To me, he's better than them. Is/was he the best, absolutely not! But among the choices presented, yes. And i knew he was going to win clearly, so why disturb myself and hours?
A person that can't read the room, like Sowore or even Gani(whom i also very much respect), cannot lead Nigeria or have my vote. There are some good people but you know, logically and rationally, that they cannot win, with the system of politics and populace we have in Nigeria. It's what they call structure. there is local, grassroot structure and reach in Nigerian politics. A politician or presidential candidate who cannot see that, does not know Nigeria and they will show him shege anyway even if God or some power got him there. i am talking facts, sorry, not morality or necessarily what i want.
It's funny to me, but i see only Jesus and maybe some of my dear pastors(who would likely use a Jesus template) who can solve Nigeria's problems. but i know that Jesus and my pastors would NEVER contest to be Nigeria's president or even win if they contest. That's foundational, from my little experience. So what i have since done is pick the best out of the worst, because they affect my life and my family. And whoever they are, i have to keep praying for them and be subject to them, that's my belief that's christianity. You may not agree with my method and it's fine, welcome to my tedtalk

Fair enough.
Remember how Pat Utomi was taught the lesson of his life in politics when he tried to run for Governor.
He was so dribbled that he went to the wrong venue for the primaries while the real primaries were being concluded elsewhere.

If Aisha says this, she is surprisingly ignorant that she will be helping BAT back to Aso Rock.

Kukutente23:
This man and pettiness
So of all the things he talked about, it's the chair he sat on that you picked from the media parley
I see him trying to put up a neutral face after he attacked Obi but he goofed badly
Attacking a chair makes absolutely no sense
He's simply courting attention and looking to bait both sides
He needs to rest
He's too old for this

It is not petty. Wike goes about with a distinct aura and ambience of trying to virtually simulate kingship or royalty. It is telling, it is signal, it is an important thing to notice in a democracy, it spills over into actions which are deleterious to an egalitarian society. The spectre of him riding a Rolls Royce for example is equally repulsive.

Doyle is on point when he used the phrase "Delusions of Grandeur" - and if you dont know that such delusions are key to the destruction of society, then there is a problem.

LordReed:
None of these work because neither is capable of reasoning.

Secondly, you are at all events wrong and presumptuous to say that fish are incapable of reasoning.

LordReed:
None of these work because neither is capable of reasoning.

Sweet Jesus, that was imagery directed at prodding you to consider what may exist beyond the "womb" or "sea" that this world is to you - however impossible or incoherent it may seem to you at this place and time.

LordReed.

Let me leave also two images in your mind.

1. A baby in a womb. Silent, thoughtless and unknowing of the existence of an entire world of people, events, color and life beyond the warmth of the silent womb where it dwells.

2. A fish which dwells in the deep of the sea, never approaching the surface. If it were told that that worm it sometimes sees stuck on a string is actually being dangled by a creature called a man who lives in a world outside the sea and has technology and art, not only will he not believe it, he will not even comprehend it. It might seem incoherent to him.

LordReed:
Actually I shouldn't but some of these discussions feel so compelling that I shed that label to dive in.

This is good. It means that the pulse of wonder and curiousity concerning the mystery of existence burns brightly in you still and this alone is a precious thing.

Ultimately though that is where my thoughts lead me.

We shall see. It is one thing to disavow belief in God or gods, but quite another to claim that the entire idea is incoherent. As I have repeatedly said, the core of the idea of God is simply that of a source of all other existence and that can never be incoherent.

Therefore please distinguish that from the many attributes that people have heaped upon the core question, the core definition of God: namely source or creator. Being of a creative nature yourself you cannot possibly regard that alone as incoherent.

What you need to do is completely away from all the religions and philosophies of the world, and even away from the Deepsights of the world, carefully begin to set down personal answers to the core questions, which should include the following:

1. Is my existence deliberately caused and meaningful or randomly emergent and meaningless.

2. Is there spirituality to my being.

3. If there is spirituality to my being, what is its purpose.

4. What could be the basic discernable attributes of that which caused me to be, if I am deliberately caused and meaningful.

5. Why am I here.

sreamsense:
Since hatred can't allow you to see what Tinubu is doing right. Tell us what your new coalition under will do different and tell us what each of them that you believe will be president among them have done before that we can point to. To me, the coalition lacks direction, El-rufai had told Nigeria that the reason he wants coalition is to chase the evil in Aso rock he helped to install.

So, no better objective. Only for personal ego because he was denied food. It surprises me how the same El-rufai that obidients called terrorist, southern Kaduna killer, religion bigot etc have now been forgiven and become hero among obidients now just because of hatred of the man in Aso rock. Well, no vacancy in Aso rock till 2031, coalition is LP part2 labouring in vain for ADC

When the same El Rufai was campaigning vigorously for BAT, insisting that the presidency must come to the South, taking PMB to court over naira confiscation etc, he was okay right? We all saw BAT publicly beg him to serve in his govt.

Suddenly he is now the most evil man on Earth right?

JagabanBorgu:
In essence, the coalition has no plan.

In any setting when I say someone is wrong and claim to be better, what I do I prefer feasible solutions to the existing problems.
Coalition is not doing that, the fact that those supporting the coalition don't even want such questions asked is the height of it.
Coalition is another failed project waiting to land crash.

It's not even up to one week yet and you expect people who came from different directions to have all agreed on a plan and written it down and published it?

Be serious. It's one step at a time.

Sharpsharp00123:
what about student loan?

At least I am bringing it out one after d other, if I drop all for u, u will say your normal gibberish so I want u to agree on a point before moving to d next one

Schools fees were astronomically increased under this administration therefore the student loan thing amounts to nothing. The government simply took with one hand and then with the other hand gave and took.

Bobloco:
Funny how you’re asking what the coalition wants to do differently as if Tinubu’s policies are some kind of gold standard.

First, no one is saying we must return to subsidy or a pegged naira. But removing subsidy without a plan, or floating the naira into freefall without safety nets, is not “reform” , it’s recklessness. Nigerians aren’t hungry because the policies are bold; they’re hungry because they’re badly implemented.

Second, a coalition is not a magic trick, it’s how democracies work. Multiple voices come together to create alternative leadership. And unlike Tinubu’s camp, which ran on empty boastful Emilokan slogans and ethnic baiting, some of us actually want to hear ideas

So before you mock the coalition for not publishing a 100-page manifesto in its first week, maybe ask why after two years in office, Tinubu still can’t offer Nigerians a clear economic roadmap, just vibes and volatility.

You want “different”? How about:

Competence over cronies in appointments?

A currency policy that doesn’t swing daily like a mood ring?

Reform that considers the people first before IMF applause?

Coalitions aren’t perfect, but let’s not act like we’re comparing vision to vision here. What we have now isn’t vision, it’s trial and error with over 200 million lives.

"Reform that considers the people first over IMF applause."

I could hug you for saying that.

So perfectly said.

Image123:

On some of his ministers, i think he should have sacked some already, but let's still see. You no get alternative or you're shy?

I cant say yet, but I know I want this president out. I will examine the options carefully. I have only voted once since 1999 and that was for Gani Fawehinmi.

Image123:
i pointed already, i edited. BTW, who's your alternative if i may ask.

Point it out again.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Image123:
Recall 10 for me maybe i will find one there. Na you dey find wrong.

I don't need to. If you can't point to one, it tells who you are. I am done with you.

Image123:
If and when Tinubu makes mistakes, i will talk about it, i did that for PMB several times despite support, i did that for GEJ wella after i withdrew support. i probably have done for Tinubu in the past though i don't particular recall. i remember though that i used to exercise a 2 year patience for him if there was something off in a way then. Now he's in 2 years and he's done fairly well in MY opinion.
And i wouldn't, i repeat, give some callous visionless solution less opposition leverage over him in the name of balance.

So in two years you cant recall a single thing he has done wrong?

Well done.

The question is answered.

Image123:
Okay, this is indefensible? Or what is the colour of your problem with this news of development?
DeepS, i beg of you to retrace your steps. i don't know whatever happened but i know this isn't the DeepS i knew. This one that resorts to baseless accusations, threats and faith draining conspiracies is different.

I am advsing you. Even if the President was a saint, a balanced person will have a few criticisms to make. A person who has none is probably paid. Either that or fanatically persuaded by something like tribe or religion.

You can do a simple self test by pointing out one single thing you think the President has done wrong.

If you cannot, you have your answer. Just friendly advice.

PS: I am not talking about the topic of this thread. I am speaking generally.

Image123:
What exactly do you want me to say is wrong with Tinubu? i don't comment on everything Tinubu is doing, whether good or bad. But when i have time, i provide antigaslighting. i love my country than to give more room for time wasters and visionless people to take over. It's a patriot's duty i tried to keep on the forum around 2014 or so.

You can't be defending even the indefensible and praising every single step. Doing that makes it obvious you are paid. I am just advising you.

Image123:
Well done again Tinubu, talk and do. He mentioned this during the campaigns, i remember opposition was laughing instead. They said he want to recharge, how.

https://www.channelstv.com/2022/11/22/i-will-recharge-lake-chad-if-elected-president-tinubu/amp/

https://nairametrics.com/2023/12/12/president-tinubu-seeks-international-financial-support-towards-recharging-the-lake-chad/

https://dailytrust.com/tinubu-appoint-a-special-envoy-to-expedite-lake-chad-recharging/

If you want to be taken seriously by anyone, you have to be balanced. It cant be that you only have continuous praises for BAT and defend every single atrocity he commits. If for example you say ah well, X, Y, Z was bad, and A, B, C was good, you will be taken seriously. But when you say A - Z is good and you can never see anything wrong in anything he does no matter how scandalous, you betray yourself as one of those simply being paid to write here.