₦airaland Forum

obinna58:
And olosho go still fvck mr pastor that night

E sure die.

Kukutente23:
I thought Onanuga said we're saving money from subsidy removal

His statement was very fraudulent.

plaetton:
Spirits, on the hand, have never been observed, measured, calibrated, etc.

This is wrong. They have been observed. It is more accurate to say that one, so far, cannot record and convey the observation to another.

triplechoice:
It wasn't Lordreed but the person behind the moniker, killyaself, that declared "the something close to it".
I remember him saying something like, writing ones thoughts on paper is proof that it's material and tangible.

The same person is also behind,the knownunkown, moniker .

That's it! You are right! Thank you!

LordReed, this clears this up. It was another poster who said it. Apologies.

plaetton:
No.

So you agree that a subjective experience needn't be dismissed merely for being subjective, good.

Science only showed that biochemical activity produces these experiences.

I dont think you can say "produces." I think it is more accurate to say that biochemical processes run alongside these experiences and deliver the physical sensations attached to them.

I should be careful to add though, that it is true that biochemical processes can greatly affect the mind. And this is only natural. Even such things as hunger and fatigue affect the mind. This however does not suggest that biochemical processes exclusively produce the mind. There are far more subtle impressions which we also know, arise from the mind, and not only affect the body, but trigger biochemical processes. For example feelings can affect the body - in the sense that fear can make you quake, anger can make you tremble, sadness can destroy your appetite, excitement or worry can deny you sleep, and people even die of heartbreak.

Undeniably body and mind are closely interelated and work in sync, and one affects the other, but I do not think it possible that matter can produce mind.

The quality of mind is far too subtle and intangible to be exclusively created by crude matter.

Kukutente23:


Bro
He was never convicted of rape
So how do you now say he's a rapist?

I have told you I am closing discussions on American Politics with you. Its done.

plaetton:
Dreams have been proven to occur, because neural signatures for dreaming, thinking and feelings of love are unique and scientifically identifiable.
Like I said before, even the Religious experience, an experience often falsely relegated to the realm of the spiritual, is now not mapable in the brain, but itself subject to manipulation by chemical substances.
At the end of the day, measurable biochemical activity is responsible for subjective experiences we falsely deemed 'spiritual'.

Are you saying that before science proved dreams occur, dreams were not real experiences?
What about thoughts and your love for Ekaete?

Does science need to validate them for them to be real?

Kukutente23:


So Trump is not a rapist as the leftist media deceived you

He is.

What he did is rape. Saying he is not, is same as saying O. J is no killer.

And remember you are greatly deceived by the rightist media as well. Again, you see how easy it is to allege that.

Anyway, I really mean it when I say we should leave off this topic.

Kukutente23:
OJ Simpson was not found guilty of murder in a civil court. He was found liable for wrongful death. The point still stands. He was not charged for murder which is a crime in a civil court

I dont know what distinction you are making that one doesnt already know. I am only showing you what I said - that people can face civil trials for crimes they commit. And that is elementary.

The link I shared explained already - it used assault as an example.

Its really simple, but this is what extremism on any topic does to a usually bright and logical fella. He suddenly becomes foggy about the simplest things.

Kukutente23:
But what you qouted here makes a distinction between the civil and criminal case. Rape is a criminal case and can't be tried in a civil suit. Sexual battery or assault can be tried in a civil suit as long as the person is not alleging any bodliy injury or unwanted penetration. You need to understand that distinction. In the link you provided, from her testimony, Carroll never claimed he penetrated her against her will. What she is saying is he penetrated forcefully. The lines are blurred but if it amounted to rape, it will immediately be rejected by the court as a criminal case. I hope you get it.

No it will not be rejected by the court. A litigant is entitled to bring a civil case for damages against a person who has committed a crime against him or her. This is actually elementary. This is how O. J. Simpson was found liable for murder in a civil case despite being acquitted in a criminal case on account of technicalities. He was ordered to pay $33.5 Million in damages.

https://apnews.com/article/oj-simpson-dead-cancer-football-murder-trial-782a2c38373a695a9b12e4371ece9cf8

Trump lies. All politicians do. The fault is in those who believe their lies. I will not excuse Trump's lies but I will not expect him to be of better behaviour than his peers. That's the difference between You and I. You are ready to break Trump's head for lying about the birther movement for example but you will excuse Kamala who lied that there is no US soldier in active duty in a war zone or that she worked a summer job at McDonald's. Heck you are even ready to defend her lies!! And I'm the extremist?

As I said, I dont think we should discuss this matter any further.

free2ryhme:
After 11 years plus someone remembered to push this to frontpage, Curse finally broken

National honors like MON, OON, and CON aren’t just for show; they come with some meaningful benefits. Socially, they elevate the recipient’s status, bringing respect and admiration, and can open doors to high-level connections. Economically, these awards boost a person’s reputation, which can lead to better career opportunities, endorsements, and sometimes even appointments to national roles. Honorees are often seen as role models, which adds value if they’re in public-facing professions.

While there’s no direct financial reward tied to these awards, the recognition can bring opportunities that have economic value. Plus, it creates a sense of pride and accomplishment, acknowledging one’s contributions to the nation. So, it’s more than just prestige—it’s recognition that can positively impact one’s social standing and career.

Correct. Any letter signed by you with those any of those abbreviations after your name will be looked at twice, whether it's a loan application, a request for a favor or indulgence, a plea on behalf of someone else, a project proposal, a contract bid, whatever.

Those abbreviations instantly tell the recipient that you are "somebody."
And in naija, such things count, even if they are shallow.

Kukutente23:
Oh and educate me pls what part of US laws says a crime can be tried in a civil case. Never heard of it

CAN A PERSON COMMIT A CRIME AND ALSO BE SUED IN A CIVIL COURT FOR THE SAME ACT?
The answer is yes. Some actions involve both criminal and civil matters. For example, assault can be both a civil matter and a criminal matter. It is criminal case because when one person intentionally strikes and injures another individual, he has committed a crime in violation of the Penal Code. At the same time, if a victim of said crime receives injuries and experiences pain and suffering, he can sue the person who caused the injury in civil court for money damages to compensate the victim for his medical expenses, pain and suffering.

Many court cases can be both civil and criminal. For example, a person who has intentionally killed another can be charged in criminal court with homicide and can also be sued civilly for wrongful death. A person who takes your car can be charged criminally with larceny and can be sued civilly for conversion.

Because the standard of proof in a criminal case is higher than that of a civil lawsuit, a guilty verdict or plea may help a plaintiff in their civil lawsuit. However, a not guilty verdict in the criminal case does not stop the civil case from proceeding forward on its own merits.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-monroe-law101/chapter/comparing-and-contrasting-civil-and-criminal-law/

The Jury in the Carroll case found Trump liable for forcefully pushing his fingers into her vagina - and that is rape, whether they used the word or not.

As to the rest, as I said, I cant engage you on American politics. I think you are too extreme. Perhaps a day will come when you see that. I will leave you with the thought that when you cant condemn a single thing in one candidate (especially one such as Trump) and cant praise a single thing in another, that is a clear sign that you have a strong problem of extremist bias. It is worse when you complain of lies against him when he is the King of lies.

LordReed:
You are the one going round in circles. I said it several times the light is being selectively blocked, and in the case of a an LCD it is blocked by individual pixels. The signals change the intensity of the blockage which is what causes the colour's to change. You aren't simply seeing light, you seeing it coming through a medium and that blockage is what creates images. If light passes through a coloured semi permeable object the shadow formed will take on the colour of the object. It is those coloured shadows you are seeing. And according to you a shadow is nothing so why is this hard for you?

I think we have exhausted this topic.

plaetton:
Subjective experiences are not trustworthy. Everyone has a different interpretation of the same experience.
Even chemical substances can shape or affect your subjective experience. Likewise, religious experience is a subjective experience, not different from substance induced experiences.
Therefore, the scientific method, scientific rationalism remains the pre-eminent arbiter of our reality.

Agree ?

Science is limited to the physical, so I cant agree.
Subjective experiences can be valid, they just may be impossible or hard to share or communicate. Surely you would not say the fact that you cannot prove what you dreamt last night means that you didnt dream it. Or the fact that you cannot prove what you are thinking in your head at a given moment means you did not think it. Or the fact that you cannot prove you are in love with Ekaete means you are not in love with her. Those are subjective but perfectly real.

Kukutente23:
Rape is a crime. You can't try a crime in a civil court. It is tried in a criminal court. This is directly from your link.

Show me where rape is mentioned there. Mind you, New York legislature enacted a new law to try such cases all because of Trump. Imagine that. Enact a law because you want to get at your political opponent



You can call it a cheap excuse. If you do, you should explain why Kamala disowned her previous stance on national issues and embraced a new set of ideas the moment she was selected to run for president. How do you explain such shocking inconsistency?

I think we should leave American Politics out of our interaction. Your extremism is too great, and worse you cant even see it.

I at least have shown some balance (e.g: I told you I align with the right on Trans issues and the like / I also mentioned two instances where I thought Trump was lied against). You, by contrast, probably cannot ever concede a single good point to the left or ever condemn a single thing Trump has done or said no matter how egregrious or obnoxious. That you can defend "they are poisoning our blood," JD Vance mocking childless people and the like, speaks enough.

As you know, and as I have told you, I generally enjoy interacting with you: it is rare that I am able to abide an extremist Trumpist of your ilk, so to keep things that way, I suggest we avoid this topic. Especially as I sense your extremism is rooted in religion.

PS: On the bold - maybe you know little of law. American law in particular makes it possible to bring civil actions against one accused of a crime. Thats what happened there.

plaetton:
Yes, immaterial things like radio waves, energy, basically, electromagnetic energy. But, as immaterial as they are , we have instruments to generate, convert, measure and transmit them.
Spirits, on the hand, have never been observed, measured, calibrated, etc.
You accept their existence by faith, and only faith.

I accept the existence of my spirit based on subjective experience primarily, because I subjectively experience and live it. This is not an experience that can be shared with anyone, as no one else experiences my life but me. This has nothing to do with faith - it is as real as what I live and observe daily - but, being subjective, cannot be shared, anymore than I can prove to you what I am thinking or what I dreamt last night.

Kukutente23:
Trump is a very powerful man. He's the first man found guilty of rape and still allowed to walk free. Bro.... Even the court did not find him guilty of rape. Did you read your link at all?

Maybe you didnt read it. He was found liable for it in a civil action. This happens.

There's no cheap excuse. Vance is not a jobber like Bwala or Omokri. He was a stting senator in his own right. You really can't compare him to those guys whose allegiance is for the highest bidder. If you are going to do that, what are you going to say to Kamala who has had a 180 degree turn on all position she canvasssed in 2019/20

It is a cheap excuse. A very cheap excuse. He was not an ill schooled baby when he called Trump Hitler. He was a Yale educated full blown adult already widely exposed. Your excuse is laughable. But thats the effect of being a Trumpist. You tend to excuse everything. This is part of why I will not debate you on his racism. It might give me a seizure, the shocking things you will say. I already escaped one.

LordReed:
Nope, I am not. The VR construct is independent of the projection. The VR environment you are seeing is NOT MADE OF LIGHT.

What is it made of?

Pixels, which emit light, is the best answer you can get even with research (I researched the question).

And the emitted light is incontrovertibly what you see.

Now what is a pixel?

A pixel, short for "picture element," is the smallest unit of a digital image or display. It's essentially a tiny square or dot that represents a single point of color. When combined with other pixels, they form the images we see on screens, such as computer monitors, smartphones, and televisions.

I culled that from Google Gemini.

"A single point of color."

And what is a single point of color if not an iteration of light?

You are just going round in circles.

LordReed:
Of course you see light but that's not all VR is.

I think you are conflating the machinery behind a VR projection with the actual VR you see. I am saying that the VR you see is light. Its like conflating a projected image cast from a projector with the projector itself. The projected image is light.

LordReed:
What is the difference between shadow is nothing and shadow is immaterial?

Immaterial things actually exist. A shadow is not a thing of itself. You are at all times looking at a surface - which is the thing.

LordReed:
It's not obvious to me. The occlusion of light is not lesser light, it's the absence of light. I have never heard anybody apart from you describe shadow as lesser light.

It can be absence of light or lesser light. Not all shadows are of the same "darkness" - you know this surely. There could be other light sources than the source which is blocked and thus casting the shadow, and some light can still filer onto the blocked surface anyway. God, I cant believe you are making me write these things. It feels like having to explain that "the earth goes round the sun."

LordReed:
Is it funny that you have so far refused to explain what you mean by lesser light. I ask again, what is lesser light?

But come on, that is obvious, haba. That's why I dont explain it. You stand between a source of light and a wall, your shadow appears on the wall. All you are seeing is the portion of the wall your body is blocking. You are just seeing that portion of the wall in lesser light since your body has blocked most of the light from falling on it. It is very tiresome that you make me have to write this.

All that is there is the wall.

LordReed:
This is a description of the working of the VR headset, 1 component of VR not the entire thing. That VR environment is not located in the headset. If the VR system processor is sending out the VR signal but the helmet wasn't there, it would mean the VR environment is existing whether it is being projected to your eyes or not. Therefore, VR is not light!

I have explained as much as I can. I cant go further than this. The best I can give you is to say that what you see with VR, is light.

LordReed:
Dude! This is what I have been saying from the beginning! A shadow is not made up of substance, that is, it is immaterial.

A shadow is nothing. Another object just blocks light from a surface and you call that blocked part a shadow. It really is just teh same surface in lesser light.

Kukutente23:
Which court found him a rapist?

In Carroll v. Trump, the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York reviewed the damages awarded to Donald Trump’s sexual battery victim.

The high-profile 2023 case began when E. Jean Carroll sued Donald Trump for sexual assault and defamation.

The federal jury implicitly found that Trump deliberately and forcibly penetrated Ms. Carroll with his fingers in the 1990s. As a result, it found him liable for sexually abusing her. It also found Trump liable for defaming Carroll in 2022 when he denied her allegations.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-dis-crt-sd-new-yor/114642632.html

Now, since I know the extremes you will go to in order to evade the obvious when it comes to Trump, I find it useful to provide a definition of rape here (not for you, because you will be blind for Trump - but for readers who pass by in future) -

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rape

Forcibly inserting your fingers into a woman's vagina without her consent meets the definition of rape.

Reno et al are jobbers. No one will consider them for any serious political office. Even Tinubu had to change his stance on Buhari in other to get into office. I'm not saying it's a good thing but there's a difference between political realignment and bootlicking from fools like Reno and Bwala

Youy are just making cheap excuses against the obvious. The same excuses you make for Vance avail both Bwala and Omokri. Also it shows you have no moral right to go about condemning people for calling him Hitler.

cococandy:
Moralist is raping and fraud? Not surprised coming from Nigerians

I tire oh.

LordReed:
The IMAGE is not made of substance it is the illusion of the selective blocking of light.

It beats the imagination that the same person who can say this can be so worked up at my description of shadows.
What is a shadow, if not the bold?

LordReed:
It doesn't, not as a statement or by implication. This what your 2nd link says is VR: Virtual reality (VR) is a technology that allows users to immerse themselves in an artificial, computer-generated environment and interact with it in real-time. There is no implication that light is the only component to it to any degree that you can now say VR is light.

So how did you read this - (the bold)?

Bending light inside VR headsets

Virtual reality headsets shape a virtual world around you by projecting two slightly different screens in front of you, which you can see through two lenses. The different angles between the two lenses allow you to see a 3D environment using only a flat 2D screen. These screens are similar to other LCD screens you see all over the place, such as on televisions or smartphones, and they are lit by a light source behind the screen.

Pay special attention to the words I have underlined, and dwell carefully on them without being jumpy or defensive or rigid.

There are somethings it's not worth wasting one's energy on. People can see white and call it black and vice versa. It happens all the time. Wasting energy arguing this matter is not worth it from the above. It is not in doubt that the entire VR experience is created by a system which includes multiple factors but what you see is light. And the above discloses this.

Infact, we do not need the above to disclose it, because people only ever see light - VR or not. Even when you are looking at a table in front of you, what you are actually seeing is the light bouncing off it.

In the case of VR as disclosed, here, it is manipulated light you are seeing, bent light. That is what it says here and that is what it is.

If it were not light, you will not see anything.

And the fact that the VR Visor works with your physical eyes is enough to close this matter. Why is it placed over your physical eyes if not for them to absorb the light for transmission to your optic nerves. Thus what you are seeing is light and light is physical, and that closes this matter firmly.

You can dance around as much as you like but the summary is that what you see in a VR experience is light, and light is physical and thus it is not an example of a physical thing producing a non physical thing as you claimed.

I will not debate this point further - unless you are able to provide a very tangible angle - so far you havent.

LordReed:
Dude it doesn't say VR IS LIGHT.

It sufficiently does.
On the road. Will be back.

Also -

The VR headset is one of the most important wearables for users who want to immerse themselves in digital worlds. It replaces the natural field of view with a computer-generated field of view. To make that happen, the wearable integrates infrared LEDs, motion sensors, cameras and screens. They all enable the VR headset to gather relevant information and provide it for the human eye

https://www.teamviewer.com/en/solutions/use-cases/virtual-reality-vr/

LordReed:
Kindly quote in either of the 2 links where they say VR is light.

Here you go -

Bending light inside VR headsets

Virtual reality headsets shape a virtual world around you by projecting two slightly different screens in front of you, which you can see through two lenses. The different angles between the two lenses allow you to see a 3D environment using only a flat 2D screen. These screens are similar to other LCD screens you see all over the place, such as on televisions or smartphones, and they are lit by a light source behind the screen.

This means that your eyes are very close to the screen, and the lenses bend the light emitted, making it look as though the world around you is further away than it is. This gives the level of depth required for your mind to believe you really are inside a virtual environment.

https://www.seriousreaders.com/blog/how-does-light-in-a-virtual-reality-headset-work?srsltid=AfmBOoogs9MYpKPiuMxkDfhRnyh9EckYtGJh93aKJFhTz1Ew4hRNESh-

Please dont tell me you fail to grasp this.
Will respond to the rest when in teh office and less busy there.

LordReed:
You are the one who needs help. Can you quote anywhere I said light is not physical?

Here. We can solve this simply by going back to what the argument was:

You argued that immaterial things could be produced by material things. I argued that they could not.
In support of your argument, you brought up various things. You have now brought up VR in the same regard.

I am saying that VR Visors do not produce immaterial things because the light you see is material.

Since you agree that light is physical, then you have ceded the debate - and your point is lost - because VR is not an example of physical things producing non physical things.

This is the context of the discussion I am working with. If you are working with a different context, let me know so we can align and stop confusing one another.