tosine90: Old testament laws are not contradictary it only shows that in the Bible there are distinct two covenant for two different era, one was has direct consequences and no forgiveness but the new testament offer grace, forgiveness and reconciliation.
It just like when the country was under military law and was abolish and moved to democracy law. Those constitution are different in nature and practices. That's how it is in Bible.
But is the same God not said to be the same today, yesterday and forever? Unchangeable? Immutable?
LordReed: It doesn't make it less subjective because it is a plurality of minds because the subject can only exist in the mind.
I never said the agreement is what makes it subjective. It is subjective because it is a product of mind and can only exist in minds.
I get that. This is why I said "lean towards" being objective as opposed to saying such a thing is outrightly objective.
Nonetheless we have come across this with you before. Where you seem to resist the notion that what is subjective is what an individual mind believes. You cannot just say the mind in general, as a vague reference to any or all minds. Subjectivity is actually the personal individual mind. It's down to the individual.
This is at the root of my problem with the statement that morality is subjective. Because it would mean to each his own, and effectively mean that there is nothing like morality beyond what each person considers right or wrong.
CodeTemplar: Why do they doubt the biblical God most intensely?
The God of the bible has very weak claims to any respectable morality as he advocated many atrocities and abominations especially in the Old Testament.
SIRTee15: Things that harm others are easily identified as immoral and society agrees this is bad and should be prevented- murder, theft, cheating etc.
Now I'm talking about things that do not harm others but society still frown on.
If your son decides to be gay, how does that affect u as an atheist. Why will u be against such union, how does it harm u? If u consider it immoral, then where is such concept coming from.
That's my question
There are very few harmless things that can be classed as immoral in my opinion. In fact I can hardly think of one. For me, being gay is unnatural, not necessarily immoral.
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SIRTee15: Since atheists reject God and His divine guidance, as well as revelation, I would like them to tell us the source of their morality.
What guides your conscience when it comes to good and evil? Is your moral framework subjective or objective? What is the foundational basis of your morality? How do you determine what is right or wrong? Is your morality dynamic and relative to time, location, and circumstances?
As a believer in the scriptures, my morality comes from the bible. If the Bible says an act is wrong, then it is wrong irrespective of external opinion or societal validation of such an act.
To the atheist, if you think a behaviour is immoral but society considers it good, how do you justify your stance? What makes you think your judgment is better than that of the majority?
How do you even know what is good or bad as a principle? For example, do you think fornication or homosexuality is evil? Do you think transgender identity should be considered moral? Do you think pride and lying are things that should be frowned upon? What even makes suicide or euthanasia wrong?
Atheists, do you think it is okay to indoctrinate your children with your morality, or should they be left alone to discover their own? If your 16-year-old daughter starts taking contraceptive pills so she can have sex with her boyfriend, would you frown at it? On what grounds would you consider her behaviour immoral?
If your 21-year-old son tells you he is gay and wants to marry his partner, will you wish them marital bliss or attend their wedding if invited? If you object to such a union, where is that morality coming from?
If your 18-year-old son tells you he is transitioning to become a woman and plans to undergo surgery, on what grounds would you tell him he is wrong?
Why would it be wrong if your 25-year-old daughter tells you she does not plan to get married but intends to have children with different men and raise them without a father figure?
I am certain many atheists would struggle with some of these situations. No atheist here on nairaland will attend the wedding of his gay son or celebrate extramarital pregnancy of his daughter.
The truth some atheists conveniently ignore is that all moral frameworks in society have historically been influenced by religious traditions. People draw from these values in how they live their lives, build families, and relate to their communities.
Yet, some reject the existence of God while still engaging with moral ideas that have been shaped by religious thought.
This is something I reflected on years ago, and it led me to question whether atheism provides a sufficiently grounded explanation for morality or its simply delusion in disguise.
I would appreciate if atheist can give a convincing rebuttal as to the source of their morality independent of an imaginary sky daddy as they say.
Are you saying that if for example you were not exposed to the bible you would believe that murder and theft and fraud are all right?
Offpoint1: We aren't born Christians, Muslims, or catholics. You were born human The labels they came later, stamped on you by institutions that profited of SPIRITUAL CAPITALISM. Before the church taught you to bow, you looked up, not in worship but in wonders. Before Bible told you what beauty was, you already felt it in the world, the rain, stars, moon, trees. The world that asked for nothing yet gave you everything. Before you were taught about sins, you already knew emphaty. Before they made you fear hell, you already knew already feared hurting someone you love. That is the truth no doctrine can rewrite. Morality existed before mythology, we build God to explain ourselves and then forget we are the explanation. We trade laws for authority, curiosity for commandments and freedom for faith.
Your moral compass is factory installed, if you need men written books as morality guidelines, then you've lost connection with your creator.
Besides, I'm no atheist, I don't just buy into religious Gods, those are men creation.
Very well said, except the bold. The world demands alot from us. And no, it does not give us everything. It barely even gives us peace of mind.
LordReed: The problem is no such standard exists nor can it because all morality is by necessity subjective. Morality doesn't exist independent of minds.
This understanding of what is subjective is faulty. What is subjective is entirely ruled by the opinion of each individual. A thing being agreed on by an aggregation of minds is not what makes anything subjective. That would actually lean towards such a thing being objectively true.
i am NOT in agreement with Sharia law in a pluralistic society . however conservative christians will protest sharia while simultaneously looking for how to establish christian based laws - which is what we are seeing more and more in the us
it is the same principle - religion is a great tool for manipulating a single issue electorate. the same christians who complain about sharia have no problem with laws against gays or abortion.
Cool. I have a Quran and like studying it. One of its most potent verses always comes to mind -
"We have decreed death among you, and We are not to be outdone. [And We are able] to replace you with others like you and to produce you in [forms] that you do not know."
— Surah Al-Waqi'ah (56:60–61)
This verse helps me stay grounded when I contemplate the mystery and anxiety of death, which is almost everyday.
The Quran is melodious and poetic and poignant in many ways.
However I personally cannot accept the idea of government being established through religion for the simple reason that its such a subjective thing. Its way too personal to be applied to everyone in a society.
GloriousGbola: we do have an example the government of God
it is called Sharia - which has evangelical conservative Christians alternatively shiting their pants while simultaneously thinking - how do we adopt this?
Patiks: That's a compliment to Watchtower but I am not even a member.
Someone with both common sense and the spirit of discernment/insight will figure that out quickly.
Even Human Right Activists like Lucky Dube, Fela Anikulapo, etc. figured that out easily without being members of any church organization. It's common sense!
As yourself, what caused the previous World Wars?
Well the opinion you expressed is a mainstay of Jehovah's Witnesses. That humans are incapable of self government.
If we are to have the Government of God, it will be important to agree on the nature, dictates, rules and values of that God, which is almost impossible.
Of course the wars were caused by men but remember that the nature of these men was established by whoever created them and that entity or force must needs be complicit in all that men do.
LordReed: I am gonna avoid any wilderness for now. LoLz.
Better for you my friend. But do you accept that the "cogitations of thinking beings" could arrive at morally wrong conclusions, principles and suppositions.
MaxInDHouse: Yahweh (Jehovah) will never ever do that to someone whose ancestors had no business with Him! The Israelite children who were killed by bears had been warned not to provoke the God of their forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in fact it was written that Jehovah (Yahweh) will send wild beast to devour them if they go against what He commanded them!
I will send the wild animals of the field among you, and they will bereave you of children and annihilate your domestic animals and reduce your numbers, and your roads will be deserted. Leviticus 26:22
They will be exhausted from hunger And eaten up by burning fever and bitter destruction. I will send the teeth of beasts against them And the venom of reptiles of the dust. Deuteronomy 32:24
"I will send against you famine and vicious wild beasts, and they will bereave you of children. Pestilence and bloodshed will overwhelm you, and I will bring a sword against you. I, Jehovah, have spoken.’” Ezekiel 5:17
All the Israelites knew these because it's written in God's law that they should TEACH their children all the laws of God! Deuteronomy 6:4-9
So when Elijah angrily cursed the children mocking him and wild beasts appeared from nowhere to devour the children their Israelite parents will remember the warning from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!😟
This chap is getting desperate. He knows what the mid terms have in store. He knows he has lost the plot and lost support. He is looking for the same emotional appeals again.
No one will vote Republican, Donnie. And your impeachment and removal are sure.
LordReed: All morality is based on the cogitations of conscious thinking beings. Even in your mythology based religion, your imaginary god, who you think gives you morality, is supposedly a conscious thinking being. It is inescapable.
Better leave Yahweh on this matter oh. Before he sends a bear to tear you to pieces.
The endless wars and uprising are what you get when you have human leaders because humans are usually egocentric and want to fulfill their desires before anything else.
Botragelad: No surprise nobody here is talking about this. If it were negative news about the US, you’d already see Writterng and God1000 flooding the place with propaganda.
A group of confused juntas staged a coup, grabbed power, and now the country is falling apart. Attackers are closing in, and there’s no real plan in sight. That’s what happens when you seize control without knowing what you’re doing, then lean on Russia, a country that’s struggled for years to even handle its own backyard.
Now Russia will likely pull back, leaving Mali to deal with the mess alone, like Syria, Venezuela, etc. And watch the same fake pan-Africanists will somehow twist this to blame the US.
Coups just breed more chaos, more violence, and more failure. Welcome to the reality of Mali under military rule. Let’s see how it plays out.
cococandy: The thief is crying about having to pay back the money he stole
Just look at that post. He is literally asking the SC to commit fraud.
It's a pity. The man makes the most knee jerk thoughtless emotional decisions and people like raumdeuter keep bleating everyone else is emotional. Shior.
basilico: The events of Charlotte were on Aug 11/12 . On Aug 13 2017 ,your god released tweet below. The tweet opened the doors to massive donations to SPLC almost immediately George Clooney $1 million by 16th August, among many other donors helping it raise $133 million in 2017 up from $51 million in 2016.
Obama foundation also saw a huge spike netting $232 million in 2017 alone. Spreading a hoax pays well. Deepsight.
bemeruca: Some payments went to the leaders and organizers. Be their supporting the people putting the kkk and other groups on life support while you cry racism and white supremacy.
basilico: There has been no major crime from KKK ideologies for decades of years . There have been racist attacks towards blacks from both white , Latinos, Arabs and Asians. Any mention by a KKK member of a crime has to be looked at similarly to any other racial group. SPLC has been formenting fear and painting conservatives as extremists. They fund these radical people within the groups to keep the hoax going on Before 2017 when they had run out of KKK and white supremacists to tag, the Unite the Right rally that they helped organize helped them raise millions of dollars per year. That ends with it's conviction.
basilico: The SPLC has played the largest part in recent years creating fear about the non existent dangers of the KKK. To that end they bankrolled people to push white supremacy and KKK ideologies. The donors were happy .
You have no idea what you are talking about. So called "funding" of these groups really refers to a well known and accepted tactic - spending money to plant moles in them. Even the FBI does it. I am sure you can remember Donnie Brasco.
basilico: Deepsight. I know you love the SPLC and what it does.
SPLC was indicted on 11 counts of wire fraud. They got money from donors to fight right wing groups. They used part of the money to pay right wing group leaders. Basically they were leeching off a problem they created in the first place.
Remember Trumps " Fine People on both sides" in Charlotte. The rally organized by Unite the Right which was attacked by left wing agitators.
SPLC was funneling money to "Unite the Right". They were behind everything. SPLC was also funding the KKK and blaming Republicans.
Between 2014 and 2023, the SPLC secretly funneled more than $3 million in donated funds to individuals who were associated with various violent extremist groups including:
Ku Klux Klan United Klans of America Unite the Right National Alliance National Socialist Movement Aryan Nations affiliated Sadistic Souls Motorcycle Club National Socialist Party of America (American Nazi Party) American Front
Media , Joe Biden etc should apologize to Conservatives.
See my comments then. Basilico sees far like a giraffe. The white supremacists were sponsored by SPLC. This was part of the elaborate 2020 election fraud. GracieX3
Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists In The House, What's The Source Of Your Morality? by DeepSight(m): 1:22pm On Apr 26
