₦airaland Forum

Further, Plaetton,

Here is how the subjectivity of the senses and perception sets aside your definition of "Reality" -

In addition to the above, let me raise the question of the subjective view of reality - which you yourself adamantly argued for on this thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/1493701/philosophy-truth-through-pictorial-arguments

In this thread, you led a band of reality-subjectivists arguing vehemently that the mind only sees what it is conditioned to see.

This, as I warned you at the time, infers that all things that we see are merely the products of our conditioning.

This would then mean that reality itself is a function of perception, and is therefore an entirely subjective thing, and in a world of over seven billion people we should and indeed do have over seven billion realities.

What is real to you may not be real to the other person and versa.

In this circumstance, I find it impossible for you to be able to judge who is embracing "reality" and who is embracing "delusion". For, given the subjectivity of perception and the subjectivity of the senses, it is very impossible for any person to then describe the subjective apprehension of reality of any other person as a "delusion".

This, is cast in stone, and is absolutely beyond all dispute, surely.

plaetton:
Let me try to summarize it.
Scientifically, something doesn't exist until we have a way of detecting or observing it or its effects.

This discussion began because you asked someone to embrace reality and not delusions.
When asked what reality is, you specifically defined it as that which is observable, quantifiable and mathematically predictable.

This is a false and very misleading definition of reality. Everyone does know that reality comprises so much more than the material laboratory version of reality you are attempting to foist here: in the instant case for example, mankind did not need the modern scientific methods you are referring to in order to know that thoughts exist: you make it appear as though we are only now able to affirm that thoughts exist because of these modern methods of proving them - this is as false as false can be.

Again, I ask you the question - since you said a real thing must be quantifiable - just how exactly do you quantify thoughts? By what scales or measurements, pray tell. What is their weight or density for example? What instruments do you use in determining these quantifiable thoughts?

Likewise, we do not have to isolate or capture individual thoughts to prove its existence.

Oh yes you do, for as I mentioned, with the method you refer to you are not observing or quantifying thoughts at all. You are only observing or quantifying electro-chemical activity which may be associated with them. You are not able to observe one thought as a thought about an eagle, and another thought as a thought about a hawk. You are not able to observe or quantify what those thoughts are about at all - and the very nature of thought means that you are not observing a thought at all unless you are observing what it is about - thought itself refers to things, events, ideas and imagination. Your method does not observe or quantify any of this and more than that - it does not predict any of these nor can it.

With that in mind, we can mathematically design chemical molecules that , for instance, can elicit thoughts of euphoria, suicidal thoughts, and even violent thoughts.

One can introduce substances into the bloodstream that alter mood but these do not lend one to observe or quantify or predict the particular thoughts therein within the mind.

In what other way can we show that thoughts have mathematical corollaries ?

Thoughts do not. The physical activity of a brain does. But thoughts themselves are not quantifiable in that way, and as such they should fail your test of reality.

So should dreams, ideas and emotions as well as a great many other things which are intrinsic to the human experience. Your attempt to squeeze the human experience of reality into a physical mold where only measurable physical things are real, is absolutely unreal to any and every human being, my friend.

plaetton:
Thoughts are measurable, as far as modern technology has shown us.
Thoughts are electrical brain waves that can be detected, isolated and even manipulated,.and as such, must have mathematical corollaries.

If thoughts didn't have mathematical corollaries, then it would not be possible for chemical molecules with mathematical corollaries to interfere with and influence thoughts. Alcohol and opioids are examples of chemical molecules that influence thoughts.

Haven't you heard of disabled American war veterans that have electrodes wired into parts of their brains, and then use brain signals to control artificial arms and fingers?

Such would not be possible if there is no interface between thoughts, Brain waves and modern electronic apparatus.

Don't you think you are being slightly disingenuous here?

For example, you know that thoughts are not predictable in the mathematical sense in which you set out your first definition of "reality" when I asked you. The fact that chemicals can influence mood for example is still no reason to state that thoughts themselves are observable.

When you observe electrical or wave activity in a brain, you are still not observing thoughts. You are observing activity, but not the thoughts themselves. The thoughts themselves could be anything - and you know that very well. You do not observe a persons thoughts nor are they mathematical or predicable in the way that you are trying to suggest.

It is true that thoughts corelate with electricity for movement. This does show us that thoughts and impulses exist, but in no way are those thoughts themselves observed, or mathematically predictable. Indeed, would you suggest that unobserved or unobservable thoughts do not exist?

This brings me to another mild matter. You have stated that "modern" science enables us to observe these things. This is true as far as the electrical or nervous activity is concerned - in the exact same way as it is true that we can now observe micro organisms whereas we once couldn't. It could be said - if one were to stay consistent with your definition - that such things did not exist and were not real at all - at the time that they could not be observed.

In this same way perhaps it could be said that this or that thought which cannot be observed, reproduced, tested or mathematically predicted, is not a real thing - or was not a real thing before the modern age - mark you, even in the modern age, such thoughts are not observable or predictable in the way that you suggest!

If we may take this further, we may effectively conclude that anything yet to be discovered by science does not exist - or more accurately, anything yet to be capable of observation, quantification and mathematical prediction is not "real."

This is a much too wanting definition of that which is real in this surreal world, and I would say that you are far too realistic in my estimation to adopt such a hollow and terribly wanting definition of reality.

It particularly surprises me that you say that all real things must be quantifiable. By what measures, I wonder.

plaetton:
And yes again.
There is a Quantum nature of reality. That Quantum phenomena appear random and unpredictable is simply because we are yet discern the complexity of the patterns of Quantum phenomena.

Quantum phenomena do have mathematical corollaries that can be modelled, and in the future, put into practical applications.

In fact, Debrogile's Equations show the mathematical corollaries of Quantum particles/waves.

I would like to know if/ why there is a special reason you treat this matter differently from that of the hypothesis on simulated reality. Because a cursory look through on the red highlighted doesn't particularly disclose anything new or definitive in terms of the intrinsic nature of reality, as far as I understand up to date. Indeed I just read this now -

"The physical reality underlying de Broglie waves is a subject of ongoing debate. Some theories treat either the particle or the wave aspect as its fundamental nature, seeking to explain the other as an emergent property. Some, such as the hidden variable theory, treat the wave and the particle as distinct entities. Yet others propose some intermediate entity that is neither quite wave nor quite particle but only appears as such when we measure one or the other property. The Copenhagen interpretation states that the nature of the underlying reality is unknowable and beyond the bounds of scientific inquiry." - on the Wikipedia page relating to same. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_wave. Reading through the page is only a reminder of the many uncertainties that still remain on those issues.

Since that is the case, why would you not adopt the same attitude you have adopted on the simulated universe issue? - To wit: This view of reality is still not firmly proven?

plaetton:
Yes.
Whatever is not observable, quantifiable and mathematically predictable is logically safe to say that it is not real.

Real things have predictable qualities.

By this measure, it would be safe to say that thoughts are not real.
Would that not be absurd, once it is considered that our entire existence is governed by thought?

How "observable, quantifiable and mathematically predictable" are thoughts?
And if so, by what means Sire?

plaetton:
Why would you be surprised? I am not taking any new position that I have not taken before.

The last thread you are referring to was a discussion about a hypothetical situation where both the observable phenomena and the observer are simulations of a cosmic Super-Computer.

And how does your definition of "reality" adjust into, or take into consideration the metaphysical aspects of existence which I am fairly certain you do not dispute, given your take in the referred thread as well as your take on the "quantum" nature of spirituality - which you have oft propounded. Permit my use of the term.

More precisely - does your definition thus give us to say that that which is not observable, quantifiable - and mathematically so - and also predictably so - is therefore not real?

Because it seems to me that there rests a salient contradiction in saying so, whilst one propounds a quantum nature of reality - given that quantum physics deals very much in the random unpredictable and in much discourse even appears to defy mathematics.

plaetton:
Rational, observable, quantifiable, mathematically deducible and predictable characteristics.

For example, you can either believe that hurricanes, floods, earthquakes and other weather and geological phenomenon are the wrath of angry supernatural deities or the rational, mathematically predictable realities that that enable taking safety and precautionary measures to safeguard life.

Likewise, wordy master, you can either take the second world war as an or.gy of European masochistic madness, or, you can waste your time on a thread pontificating on " The Spiritual Significance of The Second World War" .

Those are the distinctions between reality and delusions.

I am quite surprised by this take considering your revert on the thread I last invited you to.

plaetton:
That reality is better than delusions.

What is reality?

Edek27:

Right nd ifa can make u rich without asking u for the head of a 5 year old Lion abi?

When did religion or spirituality become about getting rich?? ? ? ? ?

Edek27:

I dunno y u atheists are all d same wen u realise dat u dnt ve any valid arguement u resort to insults

Who told you I am an atheist? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Edek27:

Right nd ifa can make u rich without asking u for the head of a 5 year old Lion abi?

Wealth?

What is it really? I will not even go down that lane yet.

Let me ask you first a more fundamental question: Jesus Christ was the human sacrifice for your sins? ? ? ? ?

How does this make your religion different from the "pagans" you despise? How does this make you different from the Aztecs?

I hope you know them.

Now, consider this: you are worse than the Aztecs because they at least believed in their own traditions. You, on the contrary, believe that the murder of a Jewish Rabbi by the Jewish establishment and their Roman Overmasters qualifies you into eternal salvation - so long as you believe that that story is true.

What school did you attend? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

You, and your entire religion, are mad.

There is nothing on this planet more comical than people of African Ilk worshiping an Idea of a Jewish God - a human by the name Jesus - and attempting to call him God! Eli Eli Eli . . . . . My God my God, My God - why hast thou forsaken me? Simple words that lead to the CLEAR CONCLUSION. He was human. Like many other prophets. In fact Fela Kuti na prophet as well. Digg deep and stop being so s.illy and ignorant.

But you know, madness is permissible. Idiocy is not. So I'd perhaps say you are an IIdiot.

Edek27:
Good so u knw dat God does exist. Nw bck to ur qwestion
I did so because the bible has an answer to all situations

So does Ifa.

Edek27:
Guy abeg u fit see air
No bt u know it exists
Have u touched a star
No bt u know it exists cause some scientists told u so
So why den can't u beilive what the bible says afta all u hv nt personally searched for proof dat stars do even exist
Bt if u wnt proof here is proof
Okay scientifically speaking everytin came 2 be as a result of d big bang where u dere obviously No so wat caused it U say atoms in space how did those atoms get there or did they jst appear frm nowhere yet u say its true bt u cnt biliv dat sm1 exists dat created everytin

You are generally right on the question of the existence of God, but I don't know why you chose to base it on the manipulated foreign script that is called the Bible. That is just cultural and even internal inferiority.

thisisthetruth:
And for the records church is not business

It is, and has always been, a business.

progress69:
STATE OF THE NATION..

I have been following closely the activities of this government and whenever I have the opportunity, I try to find out the opinions of people as regards the performance of this government.

I just realized that the hardship faced by many Nigerians is simply as a result of the fact that almost everyone of us benefited from the cycle of corruption.

The bricklayer, plumber, laborers, tiler are all complaining because building construction has slowed down massively cause the thieves no longer have money to spend on real estate.

The car dealers are grumbling because their cars are begging for buyers. Thieves can no longer spend wastefully.

The private school owners are shouting because parents can no longer pay outrageous sums and are withdrawing their wards.

I was shocked when I learnt that in a popular private University in Abuja, parents are writing undertaking at the account section for their children to be allowed to write exams... and it goes on and on.

The fact is, a lot of people are returning to what someone referred to as ''default mode''.

We mostly have been living above our REAL MEANS.

We have been staying in houses that ordinarily our incomes can't afford.

Our children going to schools we can't afford. Driving cars we ordinarily can't maintain.

We have been living a FAKE LIFE all along. Now the reality is before us and we don't want to accept it.

This shows how morally bankrupt we are.

You can't eat your Cake and still have it. TAKE NOTE........"GOD HELP AND BLESS NIGERIA"

You got billions from bank without collateral using your political influence.

You put half into your business and spent the other half on exotic cars, jewelleries' etc.

Your business employs 100 people normally. You get illegal waivers and concessions to import raw materials at rock bottom prices, you get over-inflated contract to supply government some goods your company produce....in short your company is kept afloat by corruption.

Now the new Sherriff in town say

no more ridiculous waivers,
no more inflated contracts, no more bank loans without collateral, in fact its time you or your company pay off the billions of debt owed.....

AMCON takes over your company, staff are laid off......And you go on air and say the new sheriff is killing business and causing unemployment..

The truth is....you and your company were never in business, you were only feeding off the system.

Too many companies and banks are funded by corruption. Remove corruption from the system and they collapse.......and we end up blaming the person that removes corruption for the collapse of the corruptly run fake company.

Its like our system and corruption are so interwoven and inseparable that removing one will kill the other.

Maybe we should tolerate and learn to live with corruption so that Nigeria can survive?

All of this would make sense to me if you could explain to me why the "new sheriff" in town has not clamped down on the biggest thieves in town - I.E - IBB, JAGABAN and Company.

He who comes to equity must come with clean hands.
I can't understand a "new sheriff" who not only was the beneficiary of the truncation of our 1979 democracy, but also famously stated that Abacha was never corrupt - whilst he places in his cabinet notoriously corrupt ex PDP folk sitting pretty and "fighting "kwarapshin".

If you are blind, open your eyes. If you are paid to launder his image, remember the future.

I can't be convinced that you are over 20 years old. That would be tough.

plaetton:
Well then sir,
Perhaps your time would be better spent lending your economic intelligence to the buffoons in Aso Rock, instead of insulting our collective intelligence here on your paid image laundering job.

Do you know? I am convinced that these people are less than 20 years old! We really ought to ignore them. I even feel ashamed of myself for bothering to speak on this issue. They have no sense of history, no understanding of economics, and no sense of nationhood and what it should really meanl. They don't!

ishiamu:
chisos oba lil wayne na u dey talk this? av died

Oh, shat ap and grow ap.

plaetton:
Sharap there again.

How much was oil sold for the period that OBJ inherited a totally dilapidated economy ?
What did he do?
Obj didn't invite his extended family to run the economy.
He invited tested technocrats who took the bull by horns to stabilize and grow the economy.

He didn't run his administration by propaganda.
And he took responsibility for the affairs of the nation.

What we have today is a pathetic excuse for a leader.
A certified and unabashed NEPOTIST who doesn't know the first thing about leadership: Taking responsibility.

Buhari will earn the historical epithet as " Buhari The Blameless ".

Anyone still making excuses for Buhari, a year and half into his administration Should be thoroughly ashamed of him or herself.

I tire for them oh. Worse than Buhari's illiteracy is the illiteracy of the Nigerians who support him. Directionless man, directionless country. No sense of history. Keep Voting their old cult into power and expecting something different. The very definition of IIdiocy.

But frankly, Buhari is an Idiiot. An animal in human skin (I stand by FELA). He has no clue. I don't think I could formulate one single intelligent question to him directly, at a public forum, that he could answer intelligently. Not one. At best he would run away and surround himself with his guards. Quite a coward, frankly.

This is the simple truth: We have a Leader who is a stark illiterate. However it may still take much more suffering for Nigerians to realize this simple fact.

plaetton:
Very Interesting indeed.

There is not one scenario or notion that I have not contemplated at one time or another.

And there isn't any notion that I would fundamentally disagree with.

The notion that the Earth is a zoological lab for a much higher species is the one I find most probable, due some uncanny personal experiences I have had.

I remember. I have had some odd experiences of my own.

My notion that consciousness is nothing Devine, but simply the agglomeration of interactive information is also supported.

Don't you think something like information itself could not exist without a conscious mind in the first place. Its sort of similar to the Chicken and Egg problem, don't you think?

The implications for morality are non- existent.
Morality, as we have debated often here on NL, is an evolving characteristic of a conscious and self aware mind. Our moral thresholds will continue evolve, as long as we in this bubble, irrespective of whether it's real or a simulation.

Are you sure about this?

How would you feel about us evolving to the the level where we can ourselves create such simulations of universes, and inserting "beings" therein programmed to endure hellish and barbarous existences?

In fact this thought reminds me that sometimes when I play a video game, perhaps I am indirectly controlling events in a two dimensional world in the same way as beings in a more multidimensional world may be controlling this three dimensional world simply as a video game! This is a very scary thought! What if every football match you watch is actually a reflection of what is being played our by some random gamer in a higer dimension?

The implications on the existence of god is self-evident. If we are the products of a simulation or a lab experiment, then obviously who ever is pulling the strings wins the almighty God award.
Abi?

Again, are you sure about this?

Because beings who control the simulation could well be living in a simulated universe of their own - and this will immediately create the very same infinite regress problem oft debated about God.

If we are bits of energy and information, then obviously the cessation of biological life would simply be just another form of energy transformation.

So, while the biological shell disintegrates into it's various elementary components, the vital energy remains, but simply transfers.

What if that "program" that is you is simply deleted at the moment of death - I.E - It doesnt continue to exist in any form that is still fundamentally you.

plaetton:
Simply amazing.
It seems the minds of most atheists evolve in pretty much the same way.

Like you, I gobbled up all of Lopsang Rampa's books, and pretty much any esoteric literature I could get my hands on.
I do admit that I learned quite a bit, as no knowledge is a waste.

And like you, I reached a point where I asked " So what, what is all this about at the end of the day's ?
As a species, survival comes first, after that the most you csn do is add whatever you can to the dynamic process of evolution.

I look back and I realize that the men , whom anyone hardly remembers, who researched and found a cure for leprosy did a million times more for humanity than the gurus, spiritual masters, the chosen prophets, the Jesuses, the Mohammeds, the Buddhas all combined since the advent humans on Earth.

Louise Pasteur did more for humanity that all Gods combined.

Your post has just inspired me with a new thread on these spiritual mumbo jumbos.

I called you somewhere sire

Everyday, I am more and more convinced that the world is indeed an illusion. A simulation.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160901-we-might-live-in-a-computer-program-but-it-may-not-matter

The write up in the link is rather long, but every inch worth it.

If the idea is true - and I am certain it fundamentally is - what implications would this have on faith based perspectives on such matters as -

- Morality
- The Afterlife
- The Existence of God

Cc: Plaetton, Jenwitemi, Pastor AIO, Justcool, Mnwankwo, Myjoe

Geist:
Sir, I'm not sure how any reasonable economic development can be made in a state that has always suffered from political corruption and abuse of office. But that's by the way. I only wanted to know if you would have voted for GEJ instead of buhari( I respect your opinion on many things on this forum). Also there's no saying if Fela wouldn't have been more critical of the Jonathan administration than he was of the buhari administration.

You are entirely right on everything you have just said (except perhaps Fela - I doubt anything would have allowed him to tolerate the faintest scent of Buhari. . .)

And thereon let me be more.specific about my more private concerns on this matter.

1. I am completely against the idea of any former military ruler being voted president in this country. In this matter I am an extremist, I must admit. For me, it is the worst form of a peoples lack of historical perspective. I detest - and completely stand against the very idea that we should reach into the past to produce ex Military Presidents as our democratic leaders. A person who planned a military coup (or was the beneficiary of a military coup, depending on the way you see it) - should be in jail for treason in any proper country with proper perspective. This same should be more true for ANY leader who has by a coup or involvement in a coup truncated a constitutional democratic government.

Now, even where such is not the case, it beats all imagination to then permit such persons not only the luxury and entitlements accorded to former Heads of State, but to go further to permit them to even countenance the idea of contesting to become democratic president in this country.

As a consequence of this laxity and ambivalence on our part as a people, you recall that even IBB had the temerity to begin making noises in that direction - and people began to support him. You may also recall that Abacha attempted to make himself a civilian president, and in this same country people said there was no one else but him who could do the job. The truth of the matter is that if Abacha were still alive, he would be comfortably amongst the hallowed group of ex military Heads of State who have ruled this country as a cult. Further than that, he would be mooted as a future presidential candidate, just as has happened with Buhari.

The idea stinks to high heavens, not just in its brazen illegality and the way it tramples on history -( a history in which the actions of this despicable cult has caused millions of people their lives and untold suffering) - but also its barefaced immorality.

Only Nigeria can tolerate this sort of thing, I tell you. And even relish and celebrate it as positive "Change!"

2. I generally hardly vote in Nigerian elections for a number of reasons and I did'nt and would not vote in the last one. However for the reasons presented to you above I would have, if forced, have chosen a GEJ ahead of a Buhari any day anytime. In the same way I would have chosen him above any retired dictator no matter their promise to fight corruption or be stern. I simply believe none of them even have a right to consider being elected at all - particularly those involved in coups, and particularly any coup which truncated a civilian constitutional democracy such as occurred in 1983.

No matter how corrupt the Shagari government was, if there was no military intervention, democracy would have grown and institutions strengthened through the years. June 12 would not have happened, the dark Abacha years would not have happened, Our Democracy would be 33 years strong - with many lessons. It is not so bad that we had to start again - that often happens in life. But it is unthinkable that we, in so doing have little choice but the same military rulers. Nigeria.

^^^ As far as anything to do with the economy and sectoral development is concerned, yes. He was rather weak on corruption and security though.

Geist:
Do you think Jonathan was a better option?

Why is this question relevant?

jaywhoco:
well said. Many of us are desirous of brief delight over long term benefits...

Long term benefits such as? ? ? ? ?

KingEbukasBlog:
I'm sure you support Trump .

Oh, Holy God, No way!
That's another Adolf Hitler in the making!

PS. . . . Anyone who supports Trump has no sense of history.
This is the same way Nigerians lack a sense of History in voting Buhari.

Many Nigerians Identify with the words of the genius Fela Anikulapo Kuti - and at the same time support Buhari - who the great Fela described as an animal in Human Skin. Sometimes I wonder what these same Nigerians would say if Fela were still alive. . . .

Alas, the Dead hardly speak. . . . .

This is the same country in which we have an IBB strutting free and an MKO Dead. This is the very same country were Abacha would have been made civilian president if he was not killed. The same country where the man (Buhari) who said that Abacha was never corrupt, is fighting "Kwarapshin" in Nigeria today.

It's a fool's country, and we all, are, to a head, collective fools and, for quite a time, we will be ruled by fools. Fools like Buhari. Anyone who has ever read "Animal Farm" by George Orwell will clearly understand Nigeria and its Hypocrisy for what it is.

Enjoy the game, my friend, its only just started. You will see worse before 2019.

Post Post script - I wonder what the Poster called Gbawe has to say nowadays! A man who thought the sun rises from his ass in terms of his political views . . . . I still really doubt that he will be honest enough to recant his campaign for the the APC and his hero worship of some of them. At the minimum, I hope he would not be girlish enough to claim he is being harrassed!

Tolexander:
So far he is very successful as an investor does not mean he has the potential to prosper as a political leader!

This is exactly the same sort of iidiotic thinking that leads most of you Nigerians to reject the Pat Utomis, Gani Fawehinmis (and now according to you - Dangotes) of this world - and embrace the Obasanjos, Goodlucks, Yaraduas and Buharis of this world as your political leaders.

It is obvious, as the saying goes, that a people get the leadership that they deserve - and quite apparently, people like you deserve permanent failures as leaders.

Goodluck to you (no pun intended).

MutantMetahuman:
well, if you turn me over to god, ain't that a plus to your ranks in the "kingdom" ?

Do I need people to convince me? Yes. After all, the gospel was spread by people not by god himself/itself.

1. I am not religious, sorry.

2. What "Kingdom?"

3. Assuming there is a Kingdom, so what if you chose not to "join its ranks" if I may paraphrase your words? Who does that hurt? Why are you seeking attention? What's the void in your life?

4. Why do you necessarily co-relate the gospel of Jesus with the existence of God. What does the one have to do with the other? ? ? ?

otemanuduno:
If I have any interesting power of imagination, I would have been swimming in millions of dollars by now, writing films for the white men, but no, I don't. I write only what my god reveals to me, which is not for commercial purpose from me.

If you have seen the spiritual side of life which I saw, you would have realised the truth about the so-called Jewish Rabbi who did not actually exist in our own world. The only useful thing Eusebius, the founder of your religion in our own world did was to write down moral teachings known in the past to his write-ups so that humans could be moral. The rest are just events of the past world mixed with events of imaginations from him, ascribing them to a so-called Jesus who doesn't exist(written to look like Faulkin who died millions of years back in Sodom-Egypt).

You can't understand, except if you are destined to come out of religion.

This is exactly what I was anticipating: and you have proven me right - You have assumed that I am religious and you have even gone further to assume that I am Christian.

Well, it would appear your god still has some revealing to do.
Have a pleasant day.

otemanuduno:
Who told you that I don't believe in God? Almighty GOD, the creator of the god of israel(yahweh), the creator of the god of Muslim(allah) and the creator of the gods of all lands is real, but he doesn't interfere in the affairs of human beings in the aspect of fighting battle, warring, etc. He has GREATER THINGS he controls in the spiritual than to be helping one homo he created to fight against another homo. All that is left for the gods to do and we can see how each god is doing it for his own people. yahweh specialises in wars, Vishnu specialises in making of drugs, the gods of Africa specialise in Black powers, Faulkin(Jesus)/Eusebius specialise in scamming and fake miracles, Eartum(Atum) specialises in sciences. All gods to their own, but the ALMIGHTY GOD is not any of the small small gods mentioned.

My dear funny friend. I have been watching your posts for sometime with great bemusement. If nothing, I grant that you have interesting powers of imagination. You should think of writing fantasy fiction, your boon in life might well rest there.

Pray tell though - why do you categorize all of the gods of Africa into one general category and state that their specialization is "black powers?"
Secondly, why do you say that the Jewish Rabbi (called Jesus by most) specialized in "scamming". I thought his central message was love and common human brotherhood.

MutantMetahuman:
Okay my religious people in the house...



I have been an atheist for more than 7 years now after spending a big chunk of me life running from my shadow..


But I'm not close minded to the idea of god.. Please give me one good reason why you think I should go back to believing god.

And please have in mind that you are trying to convince someone that applies or try really hard to apply logic or common knowledge to everything he does. So don't bring the faith mumbo jumbo..
I not gona have faith or believed that swallowing a stone would cure head ache unless the person proves it.

Thanks.

Waiting...... No trolls please.

May I ask you two little questions Sir.

1. Why do you require anyone to give you any reason to "go back to God"?

2. When you say that you are "giving" people the "chance" to convince you, what makes you think anyone should be so interested in your generous offer of such a wonderful chance?

Many thanks.

Goroz:
Deep Sight: Ermm.. sir, please don't be hard on me
How wrong would I be to assume that God is energy?

Please stop this childish nonsense and kindly remove my name from posts I did not make, many thanks.