₦airaland Forum

quote from me -

Let me say at the outset that there is a great lot of material on this and as such if I do post any artwork or text which is quack or fake, please do not mock me: simply point out the reasons why it is quack or fake and I will not dispute such: we will simply leave them and focus on those we can agree are real ancient drawings and inscriptions. Agreed?

quote from martian -

Ok, I promise not to laugh like a jackal. Scout's honor!

quote from martian -

Ok let's see the works of art and I promise again notto say anything disparaging

Poor scout!

Martian:
Sshhhhhhhhhh. Don't kiss and tell!! I don't want anyone to know.

Lolzzz! You actually broke me there! Nice one mate! Great sense of humour!

@ Nwankwo, are you sure you are not coloured by your Grail Message understanding that there cannot be any communication between the seven realms of the universe?

Because if you are not, there are artworks that are difficult to explain outside the context of the OP O? Very ancient art works that really make one wonder as to what the artists were indeed portraying?

We really must face up to the fact that our indoctrinations do colour our perspectives. In light of the position of the authour of the message on this matter, I really am not surprised at your position on this matter nor that of justcool.

Just bear in mind that this is no different from the position of anyone who has a preconceived notion. If an alien spaceship were to land right in front of you today, I verily believe that your convictions based on the message will lead you to develop a convenient explanation for it. I say this in good faith: you know I absolutely revere you: but in reality I believe that absolute adherence to a body of teachings expressed by another can verily limit the exploration of possibilities.

You will never condone or explore any possibility that goes against that which Abd Ru Shin has set out. That, in my mind, is a limitation.

^ Ah. Unless u aint heard of Joey Olsteen. $500 for front row seats in church.

I was in This Present House some months ago and they already prepared for this as they had banks coming in to give presentations on epayment of tithes, etc. I was dumbfounded. These guys are saaaaavvvvvvy.

Jenwitemi:
Saying that there is no evidence is just being plain ignorant and mischievous.

Indeed, I agree, saying that there is NO evidence is, in my opinion, dishonest.

jayriginal:
Again, since he is not interested in the earth or in anything apart from the planet he purposely created, is there any point in worshiping him ?

Oh no, just be awesome! That should do!

^ My friend, no worries. But pure atheism denies that any deities whatsoever exist. This still requires omniscience. Indeed the portion of the text you added uses the word "ANY". That sorts it.

But no worries. Enjoy. This doesn't concern me. I would be loathe to be aligned with Olaadegbu's perception on this matter. Sorry Olaadegbu.

Cheers.

^ I think I have sufficiently explained that I regard Yahweh as an ancient pagan idea which people gradually refined through history as the Creator of the Universe. The creator of the universe exists.

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=881279.msg10333132#msg10333132 date=1330951597]@DeepSight

I will offer my perceptions when I sense that what I will say will be of spiritual benefit to some. It may happen in this thread, outside of this thread or in non-physical realms.

There are gaps in virtually everything that has to do with human knowledge, from evolution to history. The possibilities that you guys seem to be exploring assumes that "aliens" have physical interaction with the earth. In that case, Martian is asking for the physical evidence for such an interaction. My view is that in spite of his use of ridicule, his questions are justified. A physical interaction must leave behind physical evidence. I am not holding brief for Martian as I personally disagree with many of his stance on spirituality but I am certain he is a genuine seeker for the Truth. If he sees enough evidence, he will believe but will ridicule or even mock when he sees little or no evidence. Stay blessed.[/quote]Ach!

mazaje:
Does Yahweh the christain God exist?. . .Why or why not?. . .

The idea of this god is one that has evolved. In its original pre-Judaic form it was little more than a tribal pagan deity. As assumed by Judaic cosmogony, the idea underwent several evolutionary stages - none of these stages are in my view a representation of an existent deity, but rather the paganistic ideas of primitive men. Another possibility is that at some point there was some extra-terrestial involvement of beings just like our selves, either from the physical or astral universe. But not in my view, the originating creator GOD.

However it is important for me to say that the idea continued to evolve. In its later evolution it began, in the mind of its users, to refer to a universal element that created all that exists. This precept of GOD, certainly is an idea of GOD in consonance with the originating GOD that does indeed exist, imo.

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athiesm

jayriginal:
To assert that there is no god is what will "possibly" require the kind of knowledge that you harp on.

Exactly.

EDITOk I just noted the bold. That really is outside the scope of this thread here. If you have followed the discussion, Olaadegbu is trying to prove his biblical god and not a generic creator. He is being specific. I'm familiar with your ideas, but I'd like to focus on Olaadegbu's god for the purpose of this thread.

Okay, duly noted.

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=881279.msg10332326#msg10332326 date=1330944469]I may in future offer my own personal experience and perception on the issue of "aliens".[/quote]Oh please don't keep us waiting! Justcool gave some views and I would dearly love to see yours!

Although Martian sometimes employs "ridicule" in his posts, I think that his skeptical mind is a very good thing and must be commended. Human imagination is quite powerful and if unchecked can run riot creating a sham world where everything is both possible and impossible. Best Wishes.

None of us I think has any problem with skepticism - every single one of us (Plaettton, Jenwitemi and myself) would also be called skeptics in the view of the Religionist, given that we all firmly reject many doctrines of the religions. In fact I am sure that given my past history on this forum many christians would even call me a satan worshipper or apostle of the anti-christ or some other such gibberish.

The cardinal issue here - and absolutely none of us claims to know the truth on the question of extra-terrestials - if anything the reader would have noticed differences in our ideas - is that it is important to hold an open mind in these matters - i dare say even an imaginative mind, for regular minds seldom happen upon surprising mysteries.

An open mind needn't accept everything. I certainly do not. For example, I am just hearing the moon theory stated by Plaetton for the first time in my life - and the interesting zulu legend mentioned by Jenwitemi for the first time in my life. The simple difference between myself and Martian is that I am not so incredulous that I simply mock it and walk away. I have rather already started to collect information on it all over the web, and will read  extensively on it. I was so intrigued that I even resolved to finally purchase a telescope to study the moon - something I have always wanted to do. When I am done with my inquiries, I will take a position. I would have thought that that would be the approach of the "scientific" mind, which martian claims to endorse?

Now, if after my inquiries, I find that the theory has no merit - I would not have lost anything - rather, I would have gained more knowledge - and a telescope .

What I believe is absolutely unimpeachable is that there are gaps in history which conventional history books do not contain. Exploring the possibilities therein for me, is a great and intruiging thing. As plaetton said, I guess people are just made different.

plaetton:
Now, all these may eventually be untrue, but the fact that it gives us something to think about is the real issue on this tread. We may never know in our life time whether these true things are true or false, but allowing us to stepping out of the box and see and speculate on things from a totally different perspective , to me , is priceless.
I guess people are just born different.

The bolded above is what I also regard as priceless - and the below -

1. The moon is too large for the earth, by its size, it should have crashed into the earth long ago unless it was hollow inside and therefore much lighter than it appears.
2. The moon's orbit around the earth is a perfect circle, wheras, by its size and by convention, it should be ecliptical.
3. The moon rotates in such a way that we only see one side of the moon . That is unique inour solar system.
4. The moon is also a perfect circle. with the earth's gravity tugging and pulling at it, it should have developed a bulge on its sides by now.

- are exactly the portions of your post that I would have expected a "scientific" poster to inquire into, as opposed to mere reactions of incredulity.

I will certainly inquire into that.

Martian:
lol.

The crucifixion one is hilarious!!

Of all the several ancient artworks shown, some more than 5, 000 years old, this is your only comment

Alright, i officially resign. This has been a waste of time.

My apologies for ever rasing the subject.

Wow!

jayriginal:
I do not need absolute knowledge of the universe to be an atheist.

Oh yes you do. And even beyond the universe, you will need perfect knowledge of every possible dimension in reality and be so omniscient regarding them as to assert that there is no originating creator being anywhere in existence.

Unless you are not a pure atheist, but some agnostic or anti-religionist admixture thereof.

plaetton:
What is the relationship between myths and true evens? TIME
Events are often relegated to the realms of myth over time, no matter how they were recorded and who recorded them.

AND THIS, makes me really wonder exactly how ancient peoples are expected to have recorded events if not as scripture, myth, artwork, and others which we see clear pointers in. Perhaps they are expected to have developed an internet database to record such events? We really should think on our feet.

Martian expects that the only evidence would be perhaps the unearthing of a spacecraft. If there were such lying about there is no doubt that such a thing would be worshipped by ancients and sealed away as sacred. Theer are many examples of things that could similarly be treated, such as the reported Jewish Ark of the Covenant.

^ I could post on and on, but the artworks would never end. I neednt waste my time doing so and still be met with an "Ehen? And so what" type of answer. What the discerning and inquiring mind needs to ask itself is exactly why do we have hundreds and hundreds of these types of drawings scattered throughout history all over the world. What was observed by people who drew such things which up till today continue to be reported all over the place. The least that an objective person will do is attempt to settle down to answer these questions. It is not sufficient to see thousands of such artworks over history and all over the world and simply answer "Ehen? And so what?". That is a lazy answer and in fact I would not like to properly describe just how lazy such an answer is.

Whenever we see ancient artworks we study them to see what the ancients were observing or conveying. The vast body of work suggesting extra-terrestial presence cannot be treated any differently if we are to be truly scientific.

Nuff said.

More

More

More -

More -

More

The Catalogue of ancient drawings suggesting same are legion. I can never post even a sufficient fraction. Here, jus random ones -

Martian:
Scary. lol.
Several phenomenon and yet you haven'tt dug one up yet. All you've done is present one fantasy after the other, starting with the bird. A space faring civilization will leave clear evidence of their visit but there is none.
All you base your assumptions on are conspiracy theories on a world wide scale.

Now you just sound like a broken record. Didn't we go through those ancient astronauts and the jokes already? Damn. lol

I'll be naive and get my scientific news from NASA while you and Plaetton can hang on to Sitchin and the rest of the conspiracy nuts.
I wonder who has the means and resources for space exploration and monitoring. Oh yes, NASA and co.
When you mention cosmological facts, which organization's research gave you the knowledge?

How did the term "astronaut" even come into our vocabulary?

See this man.

1. You have not addressed the contradiction

2. You should be civil enough to admit you either lied on SS or else hopelessly misread the grammar

Martian:
When I say life, I mean everything from Microbial life to complex organisms like Lions, elephants and humans. Life being likely doesn't automatically translate to "ET phone home".

Here again. You say you mean "everything from microbial life to complex organisms like lions, elephants and humans" - and strangely you still seek to exclude intelligent creatures? My dear, you are not reasoning things through. It is simple.

1. You state that "everything from microbial life to complex organisms like lions, elephants and humans" probably exist out there in the universe AND YET -

2. You insist that intelligent extra-terrestial life MUST BE EXCLUDED as an explanation to several phenomena which prima facie suggest same. . . . .

It is an insurmountable contradiction. You cannot insist that extra terrestial intelligence MUST be excluded in explaining unexplained phenomena and at the same time insist that you believe that such extra terrestial life forms likely exist.

It emerges forcefully that you are contradicting yourself. Prolly one of those people who finds the prospect of extra terrestials scary.

While you keep insisting on intelligent beings who pay regular visits yet no conclusive evidence exists.

Thousands of sightings - a large portion unexplained, as well as hundreds of inscriptions and artworks of the past is hardly what can be refferred to as "no evidence whatsoever".

You probably are not aware that every single Western Government has huge records on these.

Plaetton is quite right: You have said clearly that you are awaiting NASA to report such a discovery. Respectfully, that is the most naive and simplistic thing I have ever heard in my life. When the USA captured Japanese secret submarine aircraft carriers at the end of the second world war, they took them home and inspected them and promptly had them destroyed before they could be inspected by other allied powers who requested same. And you honestly believe that they would come across a greater technology and rush to announce it to you on the evening news. Lolzzz.

Martian:
Okay, but I'm not convinced by an author who tells outright lies in his introduction. He said Buzz Aldrin saw UFOs, Aldriin said he didn't but I guess you prefer Gordon's conspiracy.

I am sure you will be happy to recant this statement if you read the Authours Note again. Here is the relevant portion -

In researching this novel, I have read numerous books and magazine and newspaper articles citing astronauts who had reportedly had extraterrestrial experiences[b]:[/b] Colonel Frank Borman on Gemini 7 supposedly took pictures of a UFO that followed his capsule. Neil Armstrong on Apollo 11 saw two unidentified spacecraft when he landed on the moon. Buzz Aldrin photographed unidentified spacecraft on the moon.

Colonel L. Gordon Cooper encountered a large UFO on a Project Mercury flight over Perth, Australia, and recorded voices speaking languages later found to belong to no known earth language.

I talked to these men, as well as to other astronauts, and each assured me that the stories were apocryphal rather than apocalyptic, that they had had no experiences of any kind with UFOs. A few days after my telephone conversation with Colonel Gordon Cooper, he called me back. I returned his call, but he had suddenly become unavailable. One year later, I managed to acquire a letter written by him, dated November 9, 1978, and discussing UFOs.

You say many comical things, my friend, and this thread has been a masterclass in such statements from you. But this one really needs to be pointed out: where did SS lie that Buzz said such a thing? See for yourself above: the man said that he read articles claiming such - and that he spoke to the men themselves and they denied same!

So where is the lie? He goes ahead to recount how he later came across a letter from Cooper discussing same.

WHERE DID HE LIE AGAINST BUZZ ALDRIN, MARTIAN? ??

You see, I doubt that you take your time to read things through. Scurrying off to paste links without assessing or absorbing what is written or said. In spite of the weight of that which Sheldon researched, the best you could come up with is a false statement that he lied against Aldrin - which he never did. The words are there to see.

I hope you do not think yourposts here have not been full of similar gaffes: not everyone has the energy to point them out all the time - simple.

Martian:
Keep in mind that the first two names he mentioned have denied saying they saw UFOs and Gordon Cooper and his unknown associates seemto be only one who claims to have seen them and as usual all the videos or pictures have been confiscated amid secrecy.

https://www.modelaircraft.org/files/Borman-Col-Frank.pdf
We asked the colonel about the UFO‟s, which magazines reported him and Jim Lovell saw during the Gemini 7 and Apollo 8 missions. Frank said the stories were nonsense; they never saw anything. Nor does he believe they exist.

In 2005, while being interviewed for a documentary titled First on the Moon: The Untold Story, Aldrin told an interviewer that they saw an unidentified flying object. Aldrin told David Morrison, an NAI Senior Scientist, that the documentary cut the crew's conclusion that they were probably seeing one of four detached spacecraft adapter panels. Their S-IVB upper stage was 6,000 miles away, but the four panels were jettisoned before the S-IVB made its separation maneuver so they would closely follow the Apollo 11 spacecraft until its first midcourse correction.[36] When Aldrin appeared on The Howard Stern Show on August 15, 2007, Stern asked him about the supposed UFO sighting. Aldrin confirmed that there was no such sighting of anything deemed extraterrestrial, and said they were and are "99.9 percent" sure that the object was the detached panel.[37][38][39]
Interviewed by the Science Channel, Aldrin mentioned seeing unidentified objects, and he claims his words were taken out of context; he asked the Science Channel to clarify to viewers he did not see alien spacecraft, but they refused.[40]

Notice what the "respectable" science channel did. Imagine what the History channel is up to.

I could go on but this guy was just trying to sell a book like Dan Brown in 2005. I mean he also included Roswell!
About the deaths, I don't know how they figure into the alien conspiracy but if that's what you think, cool! Espionage is not too farfetched though, IF there was anything going on. examples of espionage are the Iranian nuclear scientists who get killed every once in a while. Everyone "knows" Israel is probably responsible.

Escapism duly noted.

Alright, here is my analysis of the questions I asked you earlier and the answers you gave.

My first question –

Is it your position that it is absolutely impossible for intelligent beings to exist or have existed outside the earth elsewhere in the universe?

You answered -

“I already answered question 1 on this thread. The vastness of the universe suggests that we are not alone in the universe. The elements necessary for life are everywhere in the universe because the same 92 elements are uniform to every part of the observable universe.”

Conclusion - This answer admits that it is not impossible to have extra-terrestial life. In fact this answer states that the existence of extra-terrestial life is very likely. Starting with this answer, your fanatical aversion to every suggestion of such being intelligent forms that may traverse space becomes starkly incongruous.

This is particularly so considering your stance that every explanation of odd artifacts ought to be considered, BUT NOT the explanation of extra-terrestial intelligence – AFTER you have admitted that extra-terrestial life is very likely.

This is an unfathomable contradiction!

I found that you did not answer any of the other questions. You simply evaded them with sarcastic ripostes. Given the alarming internal inconsistency in your position derived from the first question alone, it is understandable why you refused to answer the rest.

^, O, that is interesting, but you should focus on such areas as the letter written by Gordon Cooper of the USAF!

Might such a professional who stated witnessing these strange craft be deranged perhaps?

I would be interested in your conclusion.

^ Same was said for a long time about the American Presidency, pal.

Anything can happen in this world.

I noticed you entirely ignored the Sheldon Authour Note. Perhaps you would suggest that someone of his level of recognition and integrity was lying. Do you have any idea just how many well trained military pilots have made similar reports?

Nor did you say a word about the ancient sculptures of helmetted men i posted in the first page.

It is convenient for you to ignore the inconvenient, and ridicule the rest.

I will now return to your answers to the questions I asked you earlier.