₦airaland Forum

Have you read the post?

BlackSeptember:
He should sponsor the bill in our National Assembly not UN.



But giving power to young chaps like Tonye can spell doom for others

Nice one.

What a pity.

Nice one.

“The ruling is functus officio, so the EFCC application was instituted in bad faith. Initially, there was a suppression of facts particularly in the way the plaintiff brought in judgment of other courts on the issue,” he said.

“If you examined critically, no proof of facts that appeal has been entered, and again, proceed of crime not a subject matter in the substantive suit, coupled with the fact that the matter was not instituted as a criminal suit.

Yet people who claim to be sane will say NO WITCH HUNTING.
The corrupt in Aso Rock are shielded but they rush to prosecute those in opposition without even preparing well for the case.
If they can't investigate and build a substantive case, they should stop embarrassing themselves with media trial.
Why do they prefer media trial to doing their homework to win cases against corrupt people?
Why exclude those in the current administration that have been indicted?

smh.

BERNIMOORE:
Ah, One pastor DeKen Says that Melchizedeck who collect 'spoils of war which was stollen treasure' means that he collected tithe, But he failed woefully to tell us 'that tithe for Gods people was to be 'war spoils' of 'increase of ones income or farm produce''

I'm not a pastor. You don't need to bear false witness against anyone to say your mind. That you have a different opinion or understanding does not require taking things personal.
If by discussing the word of God makes one a pastor, then you must be a Pastor too. Respect the title and behave accordingly.

CecyAdrian:
Please go back and read from verse 1-3 of the same chapter.

You just purposely cut out a section that says what suits your aim and left the other. This is the same thing I have been talking about Why do that!!

Now read from beginning of that verse, especially verse 3

I don't get why you sound like you are making an accusation.

Melchizedek the Priest
7 This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, 2 and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, the name Melchizedek means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.

4 Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder! 5 Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, from their fellow Israelites—even though they also are descended from Abraham. 6 This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7 And without doubt the lesser is blessed by the greater. 8 In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. 9 One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, 10 because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.

What about the verse 3? At a point like this where anger/accusation begins to set in, I'll bow out.

(Did you get that? This is saying that even under the (Old Covenant) Aaronic Priesthood, that the tithe was actually still being collected (for Melchizedek) through Abraham - because the Levites were all his descendants and were only stand-ins for Abraham!)

Heb 7:11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come--one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
Heb 7:13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.
Heb 7:15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears,
Heb 7:16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. ...

This is pointing out that:

The tithe pre-dates and supercedes the Mosaic Law and the Aaronic priesthood under the Melchizedek priesthood in Abraham's day.
Both the Old Covenant Law and priesthood have now changed. From the Old Covenant to the New Covenant and that the priesthood were actually only collecting the tithe for the Melchizedek priesthood all the time.

The tithe (The tenth) now goes (or continues to go) to Jesus as our High Priest after the order of Melchizedek.

Or another way to boil it down is that the Melchizedek priesthood of which the Son of God (Jesus) is our High Priest, has always existed and that all tithes collected were and are still His to receive. Jesus is the High Priest of the Heavenly Temple. The tenth, (the tithe, 10%) was paid to the High Priest by Abraham, and the tenth is still to be paid to our High Priest (Jesus) today! But, now Jesus is seated at the right hand of Father God in Heaven, yet His earthly ministry continues here on Earth.

Even as it is, there is no compulsion. God gave man a very important gift called choice. You can chose to worship God or not worship him. You can choose to stay in the old covenant or the new. If you are properly in the new covenant, you will even want to give more than 10 percent with understanding. You are not giving to the man of God who collects it. You are giving to God for his work. Some men of God draw salaries, some don't. But the ultimate purpose of giving in what ever name is for the advancement of the kingdom of God.

I won't argue with you any further.

MuttleyLaff:
I will give you comic relief in a minute.

Entitled to what gangan, ah?
Paul said he was entitled to support from the churches, HE DID NOT SAY HE WAS ENTITLED TO TITHE, haba.
Chief kilode?

You really need to go read up more on 1 Corinthians 7:25

The provision of the law of aerodynamic is there
One can choose to ignore the the law of aerodynamic and instead only pay attention to the law of gravity
After all God created man with freedom of choice
and that one, will remain grounded and not be in the air

The law of the spirit, is life
The law of sin and death? Well, its self explanatory
It is sin to pay tithe.
One is missing the mark if one is paying tithe

BERNIMOORE:
Answer the question, ignore what you feel is rhetotorics i am fully waiting for meaningfull discussion, first what do you understand by 'after the order of melchizedek'? only with bible quotation!

Heb 7:5 Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people--that is, their brothers--even though their brothers are descended from Abraham.
Heb 7:6 This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises.
Heb 7:7 And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater.
Heb 7:8 In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living.
Heb 7:9 One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham,
Heb 7:10 because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.

(Did you get that? This is saying that even under the (Old Covenant) Aaronic Priesthood, that the tithe was actually still being collected (for Melchizedek) through Abraham - because the Levites were all his descendants and were only stand-ins for Abraham!)

Heb 7:11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come--one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
Heb 7:13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.
Heb 7:15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears,
Heb 7:16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. ...

This is pointing out that:

The tithe pre-dates and supercedes the Mosaic Law and the Aaronic priesthood under the Melchizedek priesthood in Abraham's day.
Both the Old Covenant Law and priesthood have now changed. From the Old Covenant to the New Covenant and that the priesthood were actually only collecting the tithe for the Melchizedek priesthood all the time.

The tithe (The tenth) now goes (or continues to go) to Jesus as our High Priest after the order of Melchizedek.

Or another way to boil it down is that the Melchizedek priesthood of which the Son of God (Jesus) is our High Priest, has always existed and that all tithes collected were and are still His to receive. Jesus is the High Priest of the Heavenly Temple. The tenth, (the tithe, 10%) was paid to the High Priest by Abraham, and the tenth is still to be paid to our High Priest (Jesus) today! But, now Jesus is seated at the right hand of Father God in Heaven, yet His earthly ministry continues here on Earth.

(Note that Paul uses an Old Covenant illustration for financial support of the ministry. I mention this because some people believe that everything Moses gave as part of the Law is no longer even relevant to a New Covenant Christian. )
(Note also that this outreach was part of Paul's ministry - and Paul was not a Pastor of a church.)

1 Cor 9:9 For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about the oxen that God is concerned?
1 Cor 9:10 Surely he says this for us, doesn't he? Yes, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.
1 Cor 9:11 If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you?

(Note that Paul also believed in the principal of financial sowing and reaping.)

1 Cor 9:12 If others have this right of support from you, shouldn't we have it all the more? But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.

(Note also that Paul states that he (the ministry) has the right to expect to be financially supported by those ministered to.)

(Next Paul uses the Old Covenant Levitical priesthood as an illustration for financial support of the ministry. This is the Levitical priesthood, which received the tithe. I mention this because in nearly all of the anti-tithe teachings they state that the Levitical system has no relevance to New Covenant Christians. Now remember, Paul is talking about financial support here ...)

1 Cor 9:13 Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?
1 Cor 9:14 IN THE SAME WAY, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

Entitled to what gangan, ah?

(Question: How was food provided to those who worked in the temple? Answer: The tithe and the offerings.)

If you want to engage in meaningful discussion leave rhetorics

BERNIMOORE:
You people keep amazing Me in justifying fraudulent Act, pls lets Analyse;

Genesis 14:18-20
Abram gave ONE-TENTH (10%) of all the goods of Sodom that were stolen by Chedorlaomer to Melchizedek. Abram did NOT tithe from his own possessions, an essential fact to refute tithing practices [/b]in the new covenant.

Are you now saying Christians should be paying 10% of goods and money they do not own! Even worse, paying tithes this way means they have to find someone who has be robbed and recover the stolen goods.

For example, if jewelry was stolen in a burglary, the tithing Christian must first return the stolen goods to the rightful owner, who must not be a Christian, (in keeping true to the symbolism of Abram and Melchizedek) and then use 10% of the recovered goods as a tithe to the church. This is an outlandishly absurd example and it ought to be ample proof for rejecting this false doctrine of church tithing
Even The jew pharisee jesus condemned Aknowledge that isrealites tithe only from their own possesion.
Luke 18:12
I fast twice in the week, [b]I give tithes of all that I possess

Try harder

MuttleyLaff:
Aaargh, Hebrews 7 is not positing tithes,
Hebrews 7 is solely about the priesthood of Jesus Christ
It is talking about Jesus and putting forward as fact that Jesus is of a superior priesthood to that of the Levites

For when the priesthood is changed, the Law must be changed as well
- Hebrews 7:12

Have you not noticed or read the transition in Hebrews 7:12?
The law of the Spirit (e.g. cheerful giving etcetera) has replaced the law of sin and death (e.g. tithe giving etcetera)

Heb 7:5 Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people--that is, their brothers--even though their brothers are descended from Abraham.
Heb 7:6 This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises.
Heb 7:7 And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater.
Heb 7:8 In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living.
Heb 7:9 One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham,
Heb 7:10 because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.

(Did you get that? This is saying that even under the (Old Covenant) Aaronic Priesthood, that the tithe was actually still being collected (for Melchizedek) through Abraham - because the Levites were all his descendants and were only stand-ins for Abraham!)

Heb 7:11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come--one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
Heb 7:13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.
Heb 7:15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears,
Heb 7:16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. ...

This is pointing out that:

The tithe pre-dates and supercedes the Mosaic Law and the Aaronic priesthood under the Melchizedek priesthood in Abraham's day.
Both the Old Covenant Law and priesthood have now changed. From the Old Covenant to the New Covenant and that the priesthood were actually only collecting the tithe for the Melchizedek priesthood all the time.

The tithe (The tenth) now goes (or continues to go) to Jesus as our High Priest after the order of Melchizedek.

Or another way to boil it down is that the Melchizedek priesthood of which the Son of God (Jesus) is our High Priest, has always existed and that all tithes collected were and are still His to receive. Jesus is the High Priest of the Heavenly Temple. The tenth, (the tithe, 10%) was paid to the High Priest by Abraham, and the tenth is still to be paid to our High Priest (Jesus) today! But, now Jesus is seated at the right hand of Father God in Heaven, yet His earthly ministry continues here on Earth.

ezenaija:
Paul never claimed that he is entitled to any commanded tithe. He only used that to illustrate support of spiritual leaders by followers.

1 Cor 9:9 For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about the oxen that God is concerned?
1 Cor 9:10 Surely he says this for us, doesn't he? Yes, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.
1 Cor 9:11 If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you?
1 Cor 9:12 If others have this right of support from you, shouldn't we have it all the more? But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.

MuttleyLaff:
Paul always says, there is nothing shameful in asking for financial support, inasmuch as that the giving is done cheerfully and not done under compulsion

Yes brother, the Wright brothers made void the law of gravity through faith.
God allows: Yea, with the recognition and establishing of the law of aerodynamic, we now fly in the air with planes not dropping down

Nice comic relief.

Paul said he is entitled to it as commanded but he "himself" will not use the right to it, hence he chooses to let it come willingly.
Just like he had chosen not to marry so that he can concentrate on the work of God and even encourages those who can to follow suit.
So if you should minister, would you say you must not marry because Paul encouraged concentration?

Even where the provision is there, you can choose not to pay the tithe. After all God created man with freedom of choice. You are advised to choose life, but it's still all up to you to choose life or death.

CecyAdrian:
The pastors that collect tithe, are they descendants of levites? Even Jesus Christ is not a descendants of levites. Most of these pastors have many businesses on the side that breeds money for them. Some have schools, hospitals, factories, companies and oil wells, going by the scripture you quoted up there, are they supposed to do all that?

Hebrews 7:5-10New International Version (NIV)

5 Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, from their fellow Israelites—even though they also are descended from Abraham. 6 This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises.

MuttleyLaff:
Paul was not advocating the law of sin and death
You support the temple and the Levites with obligatory laws (i.e. law of sin and death)
You support the Gospel and its workers with left-to-personal choice laws (i.e. law of the spirit)

Romans 3:31King James Version (KJV)

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

seguno2:
Was Luke 11:42 before or after the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ to FULFILL the law?

Romans 3:31King James Version (KJV)

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

seguno2:
Was Luke 11:42 before or after the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ to FULFILL the law?

(Note that Paul uses an Old Covenant illustration for financial support of the ministry. I mention this because some people believe that everything Moses gave as part of the Law is no longer even relevant to a New Covenant Christian. )
(Note also that this outreach was part of Paul's ministry - and Paul was not a Pastor of a church.)

1 Cor 9:9 For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about the oxen that God is concerned?
1 Cor 9:10 Surely he says this for us, doesn't he? Yes, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.
1 Cor 9:11 If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you?

(Note that Paul also believed in the principal of financial sowing and reaping.)

1 Cor 9:12 If others have this right of support from you, shouldn't we have it all the more? But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.

(Note also that Paul states that he (the ministry) has the right to expect to be financially supported by those ministered to.)

(Next Paul uses the Old Covenant Levitical priesthood as an illustration for financial support of the ministry. This is the Levitical priesthood, which received the tithe. I mention this because in nearly all of the anti-tithe teachings they state that the Levitical system has no relevance to New Covenant Christians. Now remember, Paul is talking about financial support here ...)

1 Cor 9:13 Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?
1 Cor 9:14 IN THE SAME WAY, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

(Question: How was food provided to those who worked in the temple? Answer: The tithe and the offerings.)

CecyAdrian:
Possessions which were given to them, they on their own did not source for the lands, farms or beast, the other tribes of Israel gave it to them freely from their own inheritance since they (Levites) have none.

After it's now given to them it now becomes theirs. Not so? And they did have farmlands. What do they do with the farmlands? Didn't they also earn from their farms and other possessions?

CecyAdrian:
The pastors that collect tithe, are they descendants of levites? Even Jesus Christ is not a descendants of levites. Most of these pastors have many businesses on the side that breeds money for them. Some have schools, hospitals, factories, companies and oil wells, going by the scripture you quoted up there, are they supposed to do all that?

Levites still had possessions, lands, farms, beast etc. Numbers 35. Especially vs 1 - 4.

seguno2:
This is not different from what Deuteronomy and Malachi recommended for the old Levite priests- eat/ have enough to live with from the tithes of the other Israelites since they must not work and have no inheritance/land.
Is that the case with the penterascal pastors who own property and pass them to their children?

The Levites still had possessions, lands, beast, farms etc. Numbers 35. Especially vs 1 - 4.

.

CecyAdrian:
He did not condemn it, but he in his own way made us to understand that it was not important, even if we are supposed to pay the tithe, these men of God that demand for it are they descendants of Levi?

Luke 11:42 But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice
and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

The emphasis I see here is that all are equally important. I understand the use of the phrase "These you ought to have done" to imply that you need to do. Do you have a contrary meaning to this?

CecyAdrian:
Was there anywhere in those scriptures you quoted it was stated that we should pay tithe to them?? Definitely those who preach the gospel are entitled to anything given for the gospel, be it offering or gift. But are we supposed to pay tithe to them?

But you have already discussed this with someone concerning the portion Matthew 23:23 where Jesus in making reference to it emphasizes other things being more important but didn't condemn the tithe.

Who ever wants to do or not do anything he/she likes or does not like can always have a reason to do so.

CecyAdrian:
Are our men present day men of God descendants of Levites to be collecting tithe and moreover, I thought the death of Jesus Christ put an end to all these laws?

1 Corinthians 9:7-14New International Version (NIV)

7 Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink the milk? 8 Do I say this merely on human authority? Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.”[a] Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10 Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us, because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. 11 If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? 12 If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more?

But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.

13 Don’t you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? 14 In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

seunmsg:
The pastors you pay tithe to in Nigeria, are they livites?

The pastors you pay tithe to in Nigeria, do they own and inherit lands? Do their children inherit their church after them?

The pastors you pay tithe to in Nigeria, do they perform the service of the Tent of Meeting (tabernacle)?

Is the levitical order of priesthood still in existence in Christianity?

1 Corinthians 9:7-14New International Version (NIV)

7 Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink the milk? 8 Do I say this merely on human authority? Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.”[a] Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10 Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us, because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. 11 If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? 12 If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more?

But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.

13 Don’t you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? 14 In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

annunaki2:
Where in the bible is tithes called an eternal principle and why is biblical tithing different from the fraudulent type preached in churches today?

Numbers 18:21-30Amplified Bible (AMP)

21 “Behold, I have given the Levites all the tithe in Israel as an inheritance, in return for their service which they perform, the service of the Tent of Meeting (tabernacle). 22 The Israelites shall never again approach the Tent of Meeting [the covered sanctuary, the Holy Place, and the Holy of Holies], or they [who do] will incur sin and die. 23 Only the Levites shall perform the service of the Tent of Meeting (tabernacle), and they shall bear their iniquity; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, that the Levites shall have no inheritance [of land] among the children of Israel. 24 But the tithe of the Israelites, which they present as an offering to the Lord, I have given to the Levites as an inheritance; therefore I have said to them, ‘They shall [a]have no inheritance among the children of Israel.’”

Lovely.

This guy is definitely on his own.

I'm not an MMM member neither am I a supporter of any Ponzi scheme. I will not encourage anyone to get involved in any such dealings.
But for the sake of balance, I think Lalasticlala should move this to the front page too.

Interesting finds. I do day-dream of finding some hidden treasures at times. Lol

Nice one. Should be encouraged.

I have been wondering too. The press should be able to interview them.

Good judgement.
If the foundation was faulty, the events that follow do not take that away.