₦airaland Forum

justwise:
About what? Stopping Western Education? Islamising Nigeria? Can we meet their demands?

i doubt that a dialogue would entail that. They afterall were only preaching their ideals before the attacks on them,according to d above.

Ima Ima:
i said MUSLIMS, that means muslims, whether northern or southern. northern CHRISTIANS are not muslims.u said it urself.so get the difference.there are no sentiments here.

they read d same quoran and believe in Allah. whether they r yorubas, hausas or ibos, ISLAM is ISLAM

EOD. Ds is d best u can come up wv?? Cant be wasting my time wv u

stayreal:
So, now that they are under attack, they have a problem with Boko haram? That is what is wrong with them. They lack the ability to empathize with the suffering of others until they suffer. Useless country! Let them pray that we all go our seperate ways peacefully. Any prayer other than that is in vain!

u need to stay real for real. Are u claiming that the other Muslims who av bn killed in d past by boko haram are less Muslims than d kano ones??

If they keep quiet, u ask them to talk. When they do, u find other xcuses. Point is, all of those dont change anything.let d government do more in securing the lives of the populace-stop pointing unnecessary fingers

frosbel:
Deols I have to bring you back to the topic , nobody is against talks, but :

1. talks only for those with no innocent blood on their hands.

To actually suggest that murderers should go free is despicable

2. Those who have no blood on their hands can be reasoned with to leave their wicked ways

3. Others should be discouraged from joining

4. Provide them with education education and education, though this in itself is no gurantee that they will not resort to violence

5. Help them economically

6. Compensate all the victims of their atrocities with 10m Naira each.

u sound very convinced ds will solve it. How do u separate those wvout blood on their hands from others.every other thing I agree will help.

And u mentioned arresting current members. Dont forget dat is only achievable wv force. Wont that lead to more casualties??

The prayer of fear was taught by the prophet. If this is what they mean, good!

nasty45:
If boko boys want my objectivity.they shd go and bomb mosque.i lost alot of frnds to ds incessant bombings and hr u tellin me abt dialogue?u av no idea wt i meant to loose sb.I HATE IT WEN I COM BK TO THIS THREAD

am sorry about ur friends. I av shed tears too after seeing some of d attacks but u sure dont wanna lose more friends. U thnk killing them is justified because of ur friends just like dey thnk killing is justified because of their members's death. This will only lead to a vicious cycle and that should be avoided by every means possible.

@sleekjd, i wasnt taught to wish u dead So I wont.

@ caseless, u said it all.

@Ima Ima, u need to explain whom their brothers and sisters are. To start with, Alhaji Dokubo Asari is a muslim, u prolly want to move his family out of Niger-Delta. 50% of the south-west are Muslims, i wonder what you want to do to them. And there are Northern christians too. obviously u ddnt give that much thoughts.

Many pple here wld b worse than bokoharam pple given the same opportunity. Your hate is a time bomb, soon to explode.

DRANOEL:
@deols

you don't go to a gunfight with a knife!

ok

Ima Ima:
wow!!! i missed out

@ Deols whtever was done 2 them in the past, whatever pity we wld hv had for the unjust actions done against them in d past has been completely wiped off by their insane murdering of people that know nothing abt their issue wit d authorities

they are just a bunch of irrational people. it wld hv bn better to separate them, with ALL their muslim brothers and sisters and let them practise their sharia without problems in their own country.

we need peace in Nigeria and they are bloody well making that impossible to achieve.

their brothers and sisters How possible is that. Ur suggestion will cause more wahala than the present one

uddukes:
There is a fundamental missing link in the article,which is the ignoble role religion have always played in Northern Nigeria for decades( e-g Modu sheriff quickly appionted mohammed fugu as commisioner to curry favour of the sect.).The truth of the matter is until politicians in the north untangle politics from religion we would always have religious upheavals.The introduction of sharia in 2000 by gov Yerima of Zamfara (to spite obasanjo) might be blamed for the guts of mohammed Yusuf to ask for the establishment of an Islamic state in a secular country where religion is a personal matter and not state controlled.
Northern politicians should now look back and see if this political strategy have not done them more harm than good.The north is speedily sliding backwards everyday.

well, dr's no way of separating religion from governance yet especially in northern Nigeria. If truly democracy is by d pple and their religion is their way of life, the link is expected to be strong.

Rather than this, I'd campaign for mass education. I really am disappointed in northern governors whom after 12 yrs of democracy cant already put every child in school. We will continue to av ds kind of unrest if special attention is not given to the almajiris.

frosbel:
I call this wrong analysis.

The Niger Delta militants were not killing innocent people, but military personnel.

many innocent people died.

DRANOEL:
@deols

yusuf was preaching against western ideals,alcholism,semi Unclad dressing etc which means he was preaching "hate" against the young christian graduate who after a hard days work at the office changes to his comfortable jeans and polo top relaxes at a cool spot for a bottle of beer while transacting some more business on his "black berry".

if at all you have lived in northern nigeria you would know that such preaching ends up being the genesis of religious crisis! yar'adua knowing pretty well what such hate preaching does to the highly uneducated muslim youths responded with a heavy hand (which i must add i fully support)
wasn't it a cartoon in far away netherlands that caused mayhem in nigeria? talkless of the "hate" preaching yusuf was spreading.

if yusuf believed things were wrong with "western education" he should have kept that with his god,self and family and allowed the rest of us some breathing space!

but u'd agree they could have been taken to court and undergone trial. The government of Nigeria should desist from using force against civilians. Look @ d pple killed during the fuel subsidy protests. Who knows which of their families is planning a revenge. Our leaders need to be civil when dealing wv us and we may learn to do same. Still, the killings are not justified.

frosbel:
I will always be a bigot , and thanks to that.

A bigot who hits the nail on the head.

I also want you to add another adjective to that title you and your friends have given me, call it the 'politically uncorrect Bigot '. Sounds a bit better  

And yes, in the news, on the television, from personal witness accounts, they did shout God is great !!

oya, tell us d solution u av in mind

nagoma:
[b]@frosbel[/b]You are are absolutely right frosbel, but problems cannot be solved by emotions but by taking practical decisions that can bring a lasting if not permanent solutions. Whether dialogue is more likely  to bring permanent solution than total all out war is for the government to decide. I initially hated Mandela for agreeing to share government with the whites in SA but I have learnt so much from the wisdom of our beloved Madiba. I am not sure if Bush has solved the problem of terrorism by his no negotion stand.

u av some points there. Even if boko haram was never a victim. To bring about peace, we may need to think dialogue afterall, force has not yield any again

nasty45:
@deols i'l advise to go bk to that pesn's page and c d comments that are there. IN SHORT,THE OWNER OF THAT FB ACCT IS A BOKO HARAM SPONSOR.U AD BETA EXPOSE HIS ADDY NW.TRANSPARENCY IS AL WE ASKIN OF.

and are u d gvnmnt or the Nigerian police? U'd need to try harder. The above is lame

@frosbel, u must av bn there to have heard them say God is great. Your bigotry is ammusing. It would help if you can tell us what u thnk d solution is.

nasty45:
Even fb has a link incase u dnt knw.lemme educate u.everytin u get frm d net has an input i.d. So go get d i.d of it frm fb. I've watched the video of their killin.and i'l ask u,wr those ones killed(abt 70) was it befor they've killed civilians? I also have videos of hw militants were killed in the niger delta.there boko boys have notin reasonable to talk abt. Sorry deols u'l only get your kinda muslim folks supportin your POSTED article cos they knw d STIGMA is gettin to them.

oh, so u expect me to gv u a link to someone else's FB page?? If only u can look better, u'd av found somthn close to a link in dat article.

tbaba1234:
There are always two sides to a story; Boko Haram justifies their actions by claiming the high-handedness of security on their members pushed them to the edge.

The truth is that the situation could have been handled much better by the security agencies. Violence begets violence. This is how the Jos story degenerated, one group attacks and the other retaliates till we have a situation that we can not control.

No one is saying the group has not gone beyond the limits. If you do not know the roots of a problem, how can you find a solution?

Their grievances were borne out of a sense of injustice. Their methods of expressing their grievances are distasteful but at least we have an understanding of how it all began.

The war against the group will not be won by guns alone, somehow there has to be some kind of dialogue as well.

u seem able to put it better than av bn trying to.

@proudlyUSA, thats anoda dimension to it. All that is required is for inteligent minds to look beyond ethnicity and religion to find a lastimg solution to the menace. We all can be victims.
last week, i told a friend how afraid of going to Nigeria I am for the day I get there might be when boko haram starts targetting airports. How can i then be sympathetic to their course .

nasty45:
@deols if u write anytin hr again eh, u copied and paste it and u even takin sides wit it.hmmmm u have no idea wt your pointer is sayin.where u get the story frm.we nid link.BOKO BOYS MY AR.SE

am not asking u to believe it. you are not being spoon fed here for God's sake and if u think anything here is wrong, disprove it.

what link are u talking about. I made a point it is from Fb. take it or leave it. At least there's a video someone posted above. Do you need a link for that too??

nasty45:
make i word jor.wr u go fabricate this story frm.no link to your story.tryin to seek sympathy for boko boys.so killin of ova a thousand civilians shd b justified cos of wt apnd to them.u shd see what they did to militants and civilians of d niger delta.it's called collateral damage.army guys abeg mk una finish them.they no get brain

did u read the main post at all and my follow up comments, or is it a problem of comprehension u are having? I may not be able to help you understand beyond what you do already. But once again, the killings are not justified and the above shows government needs to dialogue with them and if the above story is true, they were first, victims and deserve to be listened to, at least for the sake of innocent Nigerians.

many of the above responses are a true reflection of what is wrong with Nigeria. maybe if I wasnt a Muslim(God forbid), you would think differently of my aim. the next time a public office is for grabs, the same people as this would start talking ethnic and religious sentiment.

If what you want to believe is a NL boko haram, spearheaded by me, your business. Just the same way Jonathan is boko haram, CIA is boko haram and northern elites are boko haram.

If you cant open your eyes to analyse all the angles to this crisis, you would be getting it wrong and nothing would be solved.

Once again, I did not write it. I copied and pasted it.

The actions of the boko haram is not at all justified but the above gives a synopsis into what actually went wrong, when and how. Such is needed when considering a solution to the problem.

The solution IMHO is dialogue.

After reading this, I see the need for dialogue

frosbel:
Sister Deols, how now 

I will read , analyse and dissect when I have some spare time.   

Can you write a small summary at end end for a quick grasping of the facts - thanks.

Mr. frosbel, I hope u can understand that I ddnt write that. I'd like to see ur dissections though. There maybe something to learn from them

I will make bold some  parts IA.

I found this on facebook .it sure is a detailed view of the boko haram story

Dialog NG Wrote: A CRITICAL APPRAISAL OF THE GENESIS OF BOKO HARAM INSURGENCE
(Note: this is[b] not an attempt to justify the Boko haram insurgence[/b] which[b] I and many other Muslim maintain is a transgression of the limits set by Islam.[/b] It is rather an attempt to understand the genesis behind the violent SinParties perpetrated by the group that is claiming innocent lives by the day, preventing peaceful coexistence and threatening the whole of Nigerian national security and unity).

Boko haram started in 2002 as a peaceful Islamic splinter group that nurtured a controversial ideology against western education. The group never called itself boko haram but was named by the public and given a raving attention by the Nigerian media when the sect leader Muhammad Yusuf declared and propagated that boko (western education) was haram (sacrilegious). Among the reasons he gave were some theories he regarded as contradictory to the priciples of Islam. An example is the theory human evolution found in western science books which excluded the divine hands of God in the creation of man and the universe. This, he explained opposed a fundamental principle of Islam which holds God as the omnipotent creator of the universe and all it contains. Other reason he sighted was the immorality that youths commonly engage in at western schools such as semi Unclad dressing, fornication, alcoholism and substance abuse etc. He also castigated the western education system as being deficient in solving the issue of joblessness among the Nigerian youths but rather robs them of the time needed to skill themselves in non white collar jobs.

His ideology was challenged by many Islamic scholars including his former teachers [/b]who regarded the western education as a thorny tree that has its good and bad side but maintained that Islam allows and encourages the quest for knowledge in its entire ramification. Although attempt to bring him to order by these scholars fell on deaf ears, he continued to lure many especially the youth who were mostly shackled by the bondage of escalating poverty and joblessness. [b]Many were said to have dropped out of schools and took to menial jobs and trading. Many tore their school certificate although in an interview with BBC Hausa, he denounced the allegation of ever telling any of his members to discard his certificate.

The sect continued to propagate their ideology and also called for the creation of an Islamic state in northern Nigeria. They continued to operate as a benign and non violent group until when the police killed a number of its members (about 14) during a funeral procession on the flimsy ground of not using a helmet.


The sect leader wrote series of letter to the Borno state government and the Borno commissioner of police. He called for the compensation of the family of victims killed extrajudiciously by the police during the funeral procession. He followed his letter with practical visits to the police but all appeal fell on deaf ears. He then called severally to the IG of police and the Yaradua administration to intervene but to date, nothing was done to the culprits.

He began to send threat to the government and the police. He castigated the Yara’ dua government in an out and called Yaradua an oppressor and declared the government as unjust. For those Muslim leaders and scholar who opposed his threat against the government, he declared them as hypocrite and even declared some as unbelievers. He and his member began to arm themselves while receiving support from many who sympathized with them and had grievance against the jungle justice of the Nigerian police. He was said to have received sympathy even by some non Muslims who were alleged to have bailed him out on some occasions that he was detained by the police on the ground of perceived breach of peace due to his threats to the Yar’adua governement.

According to Dr. Aliyu Tilde “Possession of arms is a crime, a serious one for that matter, because if for any reason all the 165 million Nigerians will resort to possessing firearms, then there will be endless bloodshed that will not appease God in anyway. Government owes other citizens the responsibility to check the group. In checking any such excesses, however, government should have followed the law and respect the fundamental rights of citizens. It can arrest and charge BH leaders and members with treason, possession of firearms, etc. But Yar'adua regime did none of these; instead, it chose to exterminate the group. Had government adopted due process and patiently abided by it throughout its conflict with the group, things wouldn't have reached this level. But it chose to err first, and its error compelled the group to adopt the dangerous strategy of operating underground.

Dr. aliyu further said “Let us not forget the “finish them” order that President Yar’adua gave to the security forces that morning when he was leaving for Brazil. In fact, he even timed it that by 4.00pm that day, the job must have been completed. In Maiduguri, Government went for total extermination of the group without recourse to any due process. The world was witness to how their centre was leveled by soldiers; Muhammad Yusuf, their leader, was executed; Muhammad Foi, a former member of Sheriff’s cabinet, was executed on the street after his arrest”

Muhammad Fugu, the father in-law of Muhammad Yusuf who never part of the group was declared wanted by the police. He brought himself willingly to the police station where he was killed on the spot without any interrogation but for simply being a relative to Muhammad Yusuf’s wife. “The police and the military went about killing anyone that resembled their members to the extent that people started shaving their beards en masse; etc. A senior police officer was reported in the press saying that he cannot guarantee the life of anyone wearing such features. So many were arrested along with their wives. They remain in prison to date without trial. Extermination is still the strategy of government in dealing with the group. Video footage of Mr. Yusuf’s extrajudicial muder soon went viral, but no one was tried and punished for the crime”.

“When the group protested at a police station in Bauchi did not actually necessitate an all-out war against it. In Bauchi, it was estimated that over seventy members of the group were massacred at their centre behind the airport. Apparently, they were even unaware of the conflict at Dutsen Tanshi police station that started that morning. By evening, the state commissioner for special duties led a team of government agents that leveled the centre with bulldozers. Passengers at the Yankari Park in Bauchi also witnessed how eight unarmed members were arrested and killed instantly by soldiers as they were boarding a bus to Maiduguri. [/b]The governor, Isa Yuguda, would later claim credit for the “decisive way” in which his government dealt with the group in his state”.

The world condemned the actions of the authorities on the highhandedness they showed.[b] The government apologized to the United Nations after it was condemned for the human right abuses, promising that it will bring the perpetrators to book. Actually, it did nothing. No disciplinary action was taken against anyone until when Boko Haram bombed the Police Headquarters in Abuja in 2010. Two police officers were then reportedly dismissed from service for the murder of the Boko Haram leader.

Since the government chose to negotiate with bullets and bombs, Boko Haram therefore went underground. It took time to heal its wounds, regroup and re-strategize before returning to revenge what Imam Shekau described as the “the injustice meted against it.” Seeking revenge, Boko Haram targeted the police, the military and local politicians

When it reappeared in 2010, Boko Haram started to selectively kill people that assisted the authorities in identifying them. The initial victims were grassroots traditional rulers- all of them Muslims, the lawanis as they are called in Borno. Among the high profile killings made in this category were those of the junior brother to the Shehu of Borno, the state chairman of the ruling party in the state and its gubernatorial candidate during the last elections. After killing the first few, Boko Haram issued a warning that it will go after all those that aided the authorities in persecuting them. These included a number of ulama, traditional rulers, and the three governors of Borno, Gombe and Bauchi states. It demanded pubic apologies from the governors and got it from the last two.

Immediately the group started its selective killings, the ulama realized their vulnerability and none of them dared again to condemn the group publicly or repeat to assign it the Kharijite nomenclature. At a point, Boko Haram also issued a warning that they will also go against anyone who publicly condemns its activities, including journalists who do not live by the ethics of their profession in reporting it's activities.

The very day their massacre started in 2009, the Bauchi State government sought and obtained from the ulama in the town a fatwa which served as a license for authorities to kill Boko Haram members without recourse to justice. Only the most elderly sheikh in town opined differently, insisting that in Islam no soul should be killed without a ruling from a judge. That is why some of the ulama fled the country when Boko Haram staged a return the following year. The governor too has abandoned the Government House and practically relocated to Abuja since he received the death threat.

The government has been unable to protect its informants and other citizens from these attacks. This partially explains the silence of the Muslim community over Boko Haram.

Whatever the case, None of this excuses Boko Haram’s killing of innocents. The group has swayed off the mark and has gone too far when it considered criticisms as attack. By so doing, they instill fear in the population and loose public sympathy. Appeal to its members to put down its weapons and negotiate with government and they will rebut in this standard format: “How can we trust any negotiation with people who are amassing arsenal to attack us

Jean Herskovits, a professor of history at the State University of New York had this to say “Instead, approximately 25 percent of Nigeria’s budget for 2012 is allocated for security, even though the military and police routinely respond to attacks with indiscriminate force and killing. Indeed, according to many Nigerians I’ve talked to from the northeast, the army is more feared than Boko Haram. Influential Nigerians from Maiduguri, where Boko Haram is centered, pleaded with Mr. Jonathan’s government in June and July not to respond to Boko Haram with force alone”

There is nothing, once said the UN Secretary-General after the bombing of UN headquarters in Abuja last year, which cannot be amicably resolved through dialogue. The government has to accept full responsibility and start a genuine process of reconciliation and rehabilitation. The Muslim society as whole must continue to condemn this baseless killings and check the activities of extremists – mainly youths who lack the wisdom to see things in different shades. They need to be guided accordingly by leaders of their sects and relevant authorities. Otherwise, they will continue drifting away from the centre until they reach a point where they dream of a whole world drowned in an ocean of human blood. Certainly, this will not please God who has described Himself as the Most Merciful.

(With Excerpts from The New Challenges of Boko Haram by Dr. Aliyu Tilde, in Nigeria book haram is not the problem By Hean Herskovits Published:January 2, 2012)

mukina2:
who go poison you??    

exactly my thought.

after yours

no. dont wait for me o

when you get to set eyes on deols jnr for the first time, all the fears go die at once

awwwwwwwww! I like the thought of this.

InshaAllah you will make a good mummy!

amin x20. .thank u so much

bhusayor:
Lol@ deols's que, I've been around, watching from distance, I really can't explain why I feel so lazy to hit the 'reply button' these days, blame it on too much food,

Asalaam alaykum y'all,

wa alaykum salam. I know u bn sleepn and eating all day abi?? dont go and gain weight o!

where is dat bhusayo of a girl ?

olawalebab:
*happy* they are back

yeah! am happy they'r back too

LagosShia:
i never knew this thread was this lively and boys are serious in finding wife.

i would not make the mistake to get a wife or another wife from Nairaland.she could be the one to poison me!!!

i thought women stopped poisoning their husbands oh since they started being nice. except that u'r not, u shldnt be scared *jokes*

maclatunji:
But girls don't like men that are quick to show their insecurities, they are looking for the 'ALPHA MALE' types of men because they make them feel protected even if guys like that mostly end-up being players and all-round bad guys.

Don't worry life has a way of making us face our fears- I hope you have what it takes to overcome them!

I dont think he should be bothered about what girls like. Be YOU. it is better to have someone who is ready to accept you for whom you are than to try being what they want. sincerity matters not for now, but for the future.

IbroSaunks:
what I heard is that they fall for it when they are younger, which actually makes sense.

dont worry. we overcome it LOl but what does it mean sef

IbroSaunks:
egbon mac it's me naw, Ahan . i am not afraid of kids, I have a couple of nephews and we get along very well. it's the responsibility that scares me. being responsible for making children responsible individuals can be tough, we all see the kinda problems children give their parents. he has to b good at school, he has to pray consistently, he shouldnt give in to peer pressure, etc, and then you have to balance between being a strict parent and being lenient, a lot of stuff.
I don't like being anyone's role model. I just like being on my own and all. majorly because I'm scared of my imperfections. what happens if the kid picks up a bad habit from me? I'll feel guilty.

the thing here is u'r still a pikin, like we know SO, its normal to feel this way. by the time u become a father, it would be just normal. But, I like ur concerns. It means you have a good heart and would only go for it when you can handle it which is much better than going with the flow. all the best

mukina2:
lol stop being scared, when you get there trust me you will take it one day at a time and you'll be very happy, kids bring that complete happiness, that complete feel , Imagine being called, Baba, daddy,papa, or looking into the eyes of a little one

I av heard of the one step at a time too and I believe it will work out fine . Many girls I knew before marriage are fine wives and mothers and so I think,I'd make it too InshaAllah.

But what scares me is the responsibility. all am managing right now is myself and it seems so hard. Imagine adding others. Optimistic sha that the best will happen

mukina2:
^
when you inviting us?

when u inviting us too no worry am thnkn of a Nairaland table LOL

IbroSaunks:
to be honest, the concept of marriage pretty much scares me.

it gets me scared too. I no go lie

zayhal:
Great inputs. Well done deols.

[quote author=tpia@ link=topic=848507.msg10020632#msg10020632 date=1327225345]^^most honest answer so far.


i believe every muslim feels proud when they do something that's in accordance with their personal understanding of Islam.[/quote]a shrink in d house

@op, am always proud when I c young Muslim children perform acts of worship.

do u know ur birth date according to the islamic calendar?? Tell us about it. I found a link dat can help u out in case u dont know it yet. . .brb IA

^ and dat wldnt b a bad idea.

Frosbel, i cld almost not blv my eyes at first but wv d comment that followed

post shows there are still unbiased and right thinking non-Muslims. There is hope for a better world.