₦airaland Forum

joyContraMundum:
You didn't get the point, do you? You're quoting from the Bible, man. The Bible was written by men who claimed to be inspired by "God". Now, the question is, By what criteria did they arrive at the conclusion that the inspirations were from God? Was it because he called himself God? Does that make him God? How did they know who it was?

You haven't answered this.

I'm not here to defend the authenticity of the Bible. All the information you want about GOD and His dealings with man is found in the Bible.

The authenticity of the Bible is a topic for another day.

And I know that this is an attempt at subtly asking the question "Prove that GOD exists." But, bro, I don't have time for such unrewarding, meaningless, spiritually unbenefitting arguments.

A little study of the whole theme of the Salvation of man would reveal that the encounter between Christ and Abraham in Gen. 22 serves more purpose than people really think. Abraham knew that GOD would, one day, send a Substitute to be sacrificed. Perhaps, GOD wanted to impress Abraham with the personality of this Substitute; that He is Somebody so dear to GOD.

Let's draw some parallels:

1. Isaac was Abraham's only son. Christ is GOD's only begotten Son.

2. GOD the Father was willing to give up His only Son. Abraham was willing to give up His only son.

The difference between Christ and Satan is seen in Christ preventing Abraham from killing his son, Isaac. Satan was a murderer from the beginning(Jn. 8:44). He came to "steal, and to kill, and to destroy." But Jesus came to give life to men, and to give it to them more abundantly.(Jn. 10:10).

So, Christ is totally different from Satan.

To the question about how Abraham was able to discern GOD's voice:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." Jn. 10:27

It also helps to understand that it was Christ who commanded Abraham to sacrifice his only son to Him(to test how loyal Abraham could be to Him.)

Abraham was also sober and vigilant as 1 Pet. 5:8 instructs, and thus could quickly discern commands from GOD and those not from Him.

Satan was very powerful, next in power only to Christ Himself. However, he sinned, and iniquity was found in him, and he corrupted his wisdom(See Ezek. 28:13-18). We know that Satan is evil and iniquitous by nature.

Now the LORD expressly says "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." Matt. 7:16-18

See Gal. 5:19-21 for the fruits which a Satan-controlled life will yield. See v.22-24 for the fruits which a Christ-possessed life will yield.

I'll conclude by saying that a life devoid of Christ is already in Satan's control. Such an one does not need to "encounter" Satan again. So, if you know that you don't have Christ in your life, strive to meet Him today, and enjoy the unlimited goodness He bestows, while getting freed from Satan's bondage.

theoneJabulani:
Exactly, incompetence not witchcraft or the supernatural. For now all ailments and illnesses under the sky have either a cure or prevention. For example HIV has no cure as of yet BT it can be fully prevented. A full qualified medical doctor referring a patient to a babalowo show incompetence and should be stripped of his license

You failed to answer the question I asked you: what do you want to be done with patients whom no cause/cure can for their diseases/ailments which can make them any better?

theoneJabulani:
Not belief in God BT rather belief in superstition. When u find doctors referring a sick person to traditionalists or diagnosing schizophrenia patients as witches then u know something is wrong. The problem is nt being a Christian or Muslim, the problem comes from belief is ridiculous superstition. Johnydon22 wrote a similar article. Maybe he'll provide a link.

A medical doctor not being able to diagnose schizophrenia amounts to incompetence. The presence or absence of superstition does not affect it. An incompetent atheist doctor can also not be able to diagnose schizophrenia. That a doctor believes that a goat can turn into an ant does not make him less competent than the doctor who does not believe such a thing.

Meanwhile, what do you recommend should be done with a patient when no cause/cure can be found his/her ailment which can make him/her any better?

LiberaDeus:
Why should I follow Jesus? What makes him different from them?

Jesus is the only Person who gave up His life to save you from the damnation which was rightly yours for breaking GOD's law.

Jesus is the only Person who bids you come as you are: no matter how vile you might think you are, or that men think you are, Jesus promises to wash you whiter than snow.

Jesus is the only Person who knows how hard it is not to sin, and promises to help you in your struggle against sin.

Jesus is the only true Friend, whose words are always true.

Jesus is eagerly waiting for the day you will be finally reunited with Him: He is not just sitting in Heaven indifferent.

Jesus is the only Person who promises to be with you and help you in your race towards Heaven. He will not leave you to do it alone.

Jesus is the only Person who rose from the dead, and whose resurrection is your hope of living again after death.

Why not accept Him today?

Splinz bro,

Thank you very much for that piece of advice. What you said is entirely true.

So, in essence...?

We should stop worshiping GOD?

Have dedicated Christians not graduated from the university with first class/distinctions?

Can you prove that Christians don't invest in and even lead medical/scientific researches which can better the life of man?

So our universities can be graded efficient/productive if they churn out large masses of skeptics every year? Is that the yardstick for measuring the success of our universities?

How will belief in GOD prevent us from landing a robot on a comet?

And how can belief in GOD prevent us from finding cures to HIV, ebola and Malaria?

LiberaDeus:
Hmmm
i ask for proof of these greater things I guess I will hear " it's written in the word of god".

Just know that a sentence in an ancient book is not admissible evidence but can be part of a body of facts and evidence.

But the sentence alone is as admissible as my claim that I am the richest man in the world.

I guess if I told you that you will believe me, if you doubt me I will just demand that you accept it by faith cos only when you accept it by faith will you be able to feel and know that I am actually the richest man in the world.

Don't you want to live in a world where there is nothing that will make you sad? Don't you want to submit to the Person who understands all your fears and challenges which you have in your heart, and can help you overcome all of them?

Why don't you accept Jesus Christ into your heart today and feel the joy and happiness which He alone can impart?

LiberaDeus:
One question for the Christians, since the book of revelation goes into detail about the nature of heaven and the new Jerusalem and even the angels there, Please are there automobiles in Heaven? Is there electricity?

"...Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which GOD hath prepared for them that love him." 1 Cor. 2:9

See also Isa. 64:4.

So bro, things greater than automobile and electricity will be in Heaven.

achorladey:
DoctorAlien,
Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. This supports your last statement in your last post. But still, when it comes to trust issues,there is a measure/variations. Married couple trust one another to a certain extent, employer/employees relationship require trust as well. Even the first century christians trust one another. That is why they could speak in one accord. We can indeed trust a fellow human to a certain degree as well. When we look up to them(fellow humans) as a means of salvation then hopes will be dashed.

Exactly.

achorladey:
DoctorAlien,
Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
What Eliphaz said concerning God is indeed not God's viewpoint. That the angels are regarded as ministers like us show God has indeed a measure of trust in calling us his ministers that is why through his son he handed numerous assignment to his loyal subject. I hope that correct the bad impression of saying God do not trust his ministers.

I never said GOD did not put any measure of trust in us, or in his angels. GOD has put a high degree of trust in us by committing His eternal oracles to us.

However, GOD does not command us to trust anybody other than Himself.

The question still remains:

If no man has seen GOD at any time, who was the GOD of Israel which the Israelites saw?

zlantanfan,

When Jesus died, He did not go to any "hell" and He did not go to free any "prisoners." He simply rested in the grave. No wicked, unrepentant soul who lived before Christ will make Heaven.

A 100% biblical exposition on this topic can be found in this article.

GOD bless you.

achorladey:
DoctorAlien,
Job 4:18Do the words of Eliphaz reflect/represent God's mind or was Eliphaz viewpoint concerning the Angels is inline with God's viewpoint?
Psalms 2:12 Is Psalms chapter 2 prophectic? Who do the kings of the earth recognise as the Lord of the Old and New testament?

Eliphaz's ideology of "good comes only to good people, and evil comes only to evil people" is not GOD's mind, even though you cannot find much fault with his words.

Eliphaz's viewpoint on the trustworthiness of angels seems to be buttressed in Gal. 1:8, where Paul curses any man or angel from heaven which preaches any other different gospel to the saints apart from the one he preached. Moreover, angels are fellow servants like us, are like brothers to us, and they bid us worship and trust GOD alone(Rev. 22:9).

Psalm 2 is prophetic. The other question is vague.

Let's look at it this way:

A man was in a country regulated by laws. The man kills his fellow human being intentionally(which is against the laws of the country). The penalty for committing murder is execution. The man is tried and found guilty of murder, and sentenced to death by firing squad. Tell me, if the man starts(from the time he was sentenced to death) to obey all the laws of the country to the minutest detail, can that save him from the execution awaiting him? Can that make him just/no more guilty of murder?

If your answer to that question is "NO", then look again at Rom. 3:20, 28; 5:1. We are declared no longer guilty of the damnation that awaits us as lawbreakers, not by obeying the law, but by faith in the Substitute who suffered the penalty that was ours.

That said, if somebody volunteers to die for the man in my little story above, and the man is released from the prison, is he now free to continue breaking the law of the country, and maybe kill another person?

achorladey:
DoctorAlien,
I only have salient questions surrounding those verses highlighted. The questions will lead to perhaps better interpretation. I insist you read the chapters once again.

I have read the chapters. You may drop your questions.

achorladey:
DoctorAlien,
I am calling back two scriptures highlighted in your last post. Please make proper application of Job 4:18 and still proper application of Psalms 2:12. I hope you can read those chapters entirely and make proper correction to your last post.
Finally dont derail from the main trust of the thread according to barrister07. I second him on that.

Do you have any better interpretation of Job 4:18 and Psa. 2:12? Show us please.

Barristter07:
Whether Jesus is second person in God or not is not the issue here .please don't derail. The thread is strictly to know whether Jesus is the God of old testament or not .

If Jesus is the God of old testament, is it logical for the scripture to differentiate him from The God of Abraham ?

What does clarifying him as different from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob at Act 3:13 tells us?

"And they saw the GOD of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness." Exod. 24:10.

"And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape." Jn. 5:37

"No man hath seen GOD at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." Jn. 1:18

"No man hath seen GOD at any time..." 1 Jn. 4:12.

With these in mind, who do you think is the GOD of the OT?

Barristter07,

The concept of a second Person in the GOD Family who is worthy of homage just like the Father is, is seen in Psa. 2:12 which reads "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."

It is also recorded here that those who put their trust in this Son are blessed. This Son could not have been a man, for "Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man..." Jer. 17:5

This Son can, also, not be an angel, for "Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:" Job 4:18. If GOD charged His angels with folly, then He could not ask us to put our trust in an angel.

This leaves us with only one option: this Son being talked about in Psa. 2:12 is GOD! Prov. 3:5-8 and Psa.118:8 instructs us to trust only GOD. And since trust can be put in this Son, He must be GOD.

DeckXavier:
i am really tired of arguing with u guys,i thought i was even communicating untill doctorAlien asked me if time is necessary for existence,like seriously?its funny u know..how can laws governing the universe function without time?every single thing is a function of time,your thoughts are dependent on time too,god thinks doesnt he?he can never exist outside time

You are still running around, instead of defining time and telling us how it is necessary for existence.

I ask you again: what is time and how is it necessary for existence?

DeckXavier:
funniest question i have heard in a while,pls check out the theory of relativity and then lets discuss...

Have you no definition of time?

Anyway, let me shock you: the theory of Relativity is terribly flawed: it contains a mathematical error that will lead to c(speed of light) = 0. Have you ever heard of the Rebigsol problem?

DeckXavier:
nothing can exist without time,not possible...if god existed he would have done so in a time dimension abi?and for anything to be created its creator must exist in a time dimension for nothing can come being without time,therefore if god actually existed in time he must have needed a creator prior to his existence

What is time and how is it necessary for existence?

DeckXavier:
your assertions are totally unverifiable,you can't make such bold claims e.g time doesn't exists outside the universe,arguments should be made up of premises that verifiable and not things like this...is god perfect?? Check out my argument

god created humans in his image and likeness

humans are imperfect

then it follows that god is not imperfect hence he is not god since he falls short of the description of been a perfect being

If time is a component of the Universe, how can it exist outside the Universe? The fact that you have no way of accessing the "outside" of the Universe is enough proof of the fact that time exists only in the Universe.

GOD created man in His own image. Man was perfect before he sinned and fell from his perfect state. This perfect state will be restored to the people who love and obey GOD when Christ returns. Others who hate GOD will be weeded out of existence, and thus removed from this GOD they hate so much/can't stand.

DeckXavier:
if god created the universe then how did god come into being?

GOD must, of necessity be eternal i.e. He must have no beginning and no end. This is because the concept of time(as we know it) exists only in the Universe. And because GOD caused the Universe(which includes time), He must of necessity exist outside time.

And if you say that something caused(created) GOD, you imply that there is a time difference between the beginning of the existence of the thing that caused GOD and the beginning of the existence of GOD(for cause must come before effect). But since time does not exist outside the Universe, no such thing as a cause for GOD can exist. Therefore GOD is the uncaused Cause of the Universe.

akintom:
Now that you know for FACT, that SOMETHING created the universe, can you now tell me the SOMETHING please?

That Person about Whom you always have sleepless nights, and stay awake by 2 am just to hate on Nairaland.

Yes. I am a Christian today because I felt the love of Jesus, and He reassured me that, following Him, I have everything to gain.

You don't want to turn me into an "atheist" who would wake up by 2 am just to post meaningless things on nairaland in a bid to battle the idea of GOD in his head, do you?

No bro. You have shown me that I cannot be better than I am now if I became an atheist.

I love my fellow human beings.

I live a joyful life.

I have a sharp, critical mind.

I live a life of freedom.

I don't bicker about all day about a Being I insist does not exist, citing the belief of other people in such a Being as the reason for my restlessness.

I am cheerful.

I don't hate.

I know that when Christ comes back in His glory, He'll take me to Heaven where there'll be no more atheists.

I am Christian.

Bye.

GrizzlyBear:
If for instance someone was buying petrol at a filling station, thinking he was buying kerosine, and people came to meet him, trying to explain that he was making a costly mistake. Would it make any sense if instead of asking this people why they think he bought petrol instead of kerosine, the individual begins to attack their physical appearance, their clothes, or their accent? But this is exactly what people like you, and Doctoralien above, are fond of doing.

This analogy is inappropriate, to say the least.

1. Prove to me that I'm making a mistake by being a Christian.

2. Show me how I would be better off than I am now if I became an atheist today.

3. Exhaustively list out the ways atheism is better than Christianity.

Bro,

You're stressing yourself too much over Christians. You'll soon develop a migraine if you don't forget about GOD and enjoy your atheistic life.

Your Sincerely,
A Caring Christian.

sonmvayina:
If he has come why is there no peace in the world?,..remember he is the prince of peace..

GOD and study Daniel 9 and see what it says about the Messiah.

If you have any problems understanding the chapter, ask me questions.

mrvitalis:
lol

Seriously am happier as a realist... U see evidence and still believe what u want all in the name to prove religion. .. its foolishness

So what about the saying that says some of u will not see death before the son of man cometh again

I see evidence of what?

The bolded above: is that how you realists add words to the Bible just to prove yourselves right?