₦airaland Forum

brocab:
Did you watch the video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5JnngqQYvc

No!.
I do not watch videos put up by person(s) who already had an agenda. Their agenda or aim will not allow them say the truth.

I do not need a video to understand who the God of jesus is , the scriptures has been explicitely explicit and specific on that subject, as shown to you in the post you replied to, jesus, God himself, the disciples and several other writers have shown you that the father, jehovah, the supreme being, the almighty, the majesty on high, is the God of jesus Christ!

If I'm wrong, then tell us ur view of the scriptures quoted.
1.heb 1:9
2. John 20:17
3. John 17:1-3
4. Eph 1:3
5. 2 cor 1:3

@ brocab

I have got to say you are right about the New international version bible, The old international version is the one to keep.

I did not say anything on the NIV, either old or new. Its just part of the list of numerous translations that dnt have the quote that you posted on 1 john 5:7.
Before you start saying they are wrong for not having that quote, pls first do a research on why they dnt have it.

" The Executive Editor of the NKJV, Arthur L. Farstad, addressed textual concerns in a book explaining the NKJV translation philosophy. While defending the Majority Text(also called the Byzantine text type), and claiming that the Textus Receptus is inferior to the Majority Text, he noted (p.114) that the NKJV references significant discrepancies among text types in its marginal notes: "None of the three [textual] traditions on every page of the New Testament ... is labeled 'best' or 'most reliable.' The reader is permitted to make up his or her own mind about the correct reading."

Arthur L. Farstad, "The
New King James Version in the
Great Tradition," 2nd edition,
1989, Thomas Nelson
Publishers, ISBN
0-8407-3148-5.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_King_James_Version#Translation_philosophy

So do a research and then make up your mind!.

A good place to Start is the footnote of the later version of the translation you accept , the NKJV.
It says below :
1 John 5:8 NU-Text and M Text omit the words from in heaven (verse 7) through on earth (verse . Only four or five very late manuscripts contain these words in Greek.

Question to guide your research: if the old(est) manuscript do not have those quotes, how come their later copies have it.

I will check up those other bibles you mention and see who else is being deceived.
I advise we Christians should
study the word, before they try
to take all the scriptures away
from us, soon that time will
come, once they get rid off the
believers in Christ, their will be
no-one left to preach the
gospel, and we can't rely on
you. You have another gospel.

Pls do so and tell us ur views in your reply to this post.
Your advice is good, people should study Gods word so that they can know those translations that has deliberately removed the name of God from the holy scriptures and replaced it with " LORD" like the kjv or have deliberately keep a later addition to the word of God in their translation.

Don't forget watch that great video I have sent you.
How cool does this sound, we
will meet the lord in the air, in no time just with a blink of an eye.

Sorry, I'm not watching any video.
Video is not a proof, but a propaganda.

Again these scriptures and statement you have failed to address in my post .

1. I'm surprised you did not add 1 ti 3:16 to the verses you
have issues with .at least kjv
translated it thus:
King James Bible
And without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of
angels, preached unto the
Gentiles, believed on in the
world, received up into glory.
Ill ask you, is the kjv right with
that translation? And why do
most translators that surpport
trinity translate that verse
differently.

2. Look at your quote of john
17:3 again tell us if you
deliberately misquoted the
verse or it was just a mistake
you made.
I made effort to quote the
verse for you again, and you
are still refusing to tell us ur
understanding of the verse.
3. Be looking for author while
refusing to address the fact
that you removed Gods name
from the bible verse you
quoted.
4. No you have not, you only
quoted 2 translations without
telling us why one person
called himself the God of
another .
"You loved righteousness,
and you hated lawlessness.
That is why God, your God,
anointed you with the oil of
exultation more than your
companions"

5 .I , you , everyone reading
this thread can see that you have once again refused to explain or give ur understanding of that verse. Quoting it completely is now even hard for you to do.
John 20:17
King James Bible
Jesus saith unto her, Touch
me not; for I am not yet
ascended to my Father: but
go to my brethren, and say
unto them, I ascend unto my
Father, and your Father; and
to my God, and your God.

5 .Jesus was giving obeisance
as the bible and Jesus has
always indicated that it is only
the father, jehovah that must
be worshiped.
Note the fact that it is God, the
father, the God of Jesus, the
only true God that authorised
this obeisance.

Jesus is not the true God, not
the almighty God, not equal to
the almighty God, not the
father.

6. . Another 2 verses to
consider :
1 pet 1:3
King James Bible
"Blessed be the God and
Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ, which according to his
(to show that God is a person)
abundant mercy hath
begotten us again unto a lively
hope by the resurrection of
Jesus Christ from the dead."
Nwt
1 cor 15 :24
"Next, the end, when he
hands over the Kingdom to
his God and Father, when he
has brought to nothing all
government and all authority
and power."

samted:
1 peter 3 vs 18 - 20 (KJV) says: ¹⁸ For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: ¹⁹ By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; ²⁰ Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Now, if you're well versed in the English language (to a reasonable extent at least) you'd know that v18 which says He was put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the spirit, doesn't refer to the resurrection in any way. He was quickened by the spirit is explained in v19 which says BY WHICH (through the spirit), He went and preached unto spirits in prison, continue to v20 which says that those spirits were sometime disobedient to God in the days of Noah.

A better understanding of the word " quickened" is used by other translators which says "he was made alive in the spirit". Notice this part came after it said "he was put to death in the body".
These verse helps me to understand that jesus was resurrected, unless you can give us another example of quickened other than it means jesus was made alive.

You'd agree with me that those spirits which were disobedient to God in the days of Noah were once humans who had long passed before the coming of Jesus.

No I do not agree with you, and I have two reasons for not doing so.
1. The scriptures never called those humans who where disobedient during noahs time spirits, it called them souls and flesh.
2. It was not only humans that where disobedient during noahs time. Spirit creatures where also disobedient and they where not humans.

If this is so, it only makes sense to say that they were cast into a place of punishment (not eternal damnation) to await judgment. And due to the fact that they hadn't heard the gospel, Jesus went to preach to them and offer them a chance at salvation...this chance we have every single day we hear the word.

Now, what was casted, the soul, the spirit or both? And do you have any scripture to surpport these? .

For a fact that the scriptures never said the spirit goes to hell shows that the spirit jesus went to make proclamations to where not in hell, which therefore makes ur post that jesus preached in hell to be false.
Also the verses never even made mention of hell .

A further look at the verses and ur response shows that it is wrong to view that jesus went to preach to people who died during noahs time. The verse was specific about who jesus went to meet, and you said it was because they have not heard jesus. What about those who where disobedient after noahs time but before jesus or even abraham?

These shows that jesus went to spirits(angels) who where disobedient during noahs time.
2 pet2:4
Certainly God did not refrain
from punishing the angels who
sinned, but threw them into
Tarʹta·rus, putting them in
chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment.

Being in chains is synonymous with being in prison as said in the verses. And these verse above made mention of angels who where disobedient, the next verse mentioned noahs time in the sequence.
Now the question is where angels disobedient during noahs time ? Yes

Read the book of Jude and notice the time when these happened in the sequence
Jude 6
And the angels who did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place, he has reserved with eternal bonds
in dense darkness for the
judgment of the great day.

These are the spirits jesus went to make proclamation to and not humans in hell cus
1. Human spirit dnt go to hell
2. Only dead people go to hell and these spirits are not dead.
3. Only humans go to hell.

Another worrying part is the part that you said those who are in hell has a chance to repent after being disobedient on earth! That's not what the scriptures taught me.

brocab:
You have also refused to tell us viewers why did the JW's take out so many scriptures from the bible.
You also have refused to answer what was the name of the author who wrote the New World Translation bible from the Greek language to English.
You also refuse to listen to any truth about Christ.
You have even named some scriptures to be false doctrines.
I have asked you to rewrite the scriptures, but you are refusing to answer.
You don't understand how my mind works, only because you don't understand the word of God.
Jesus came here to die for the people, the bible was written to help us understand the scriptures about Him, which makes it difficult for you, You don't even have a bible, but a book that tells you that Jesus isn't God in the flesh.

They did not remove any verse from the bible. If you truly believe that they did, please list just two or three for starters, do not lift all from a webpage and dump it here, let me and you examine it in not too cumbersome manner. So list three verses for starters.
I will show you the many bible translations that also do not have such verses in their versions.
I will also tell you why you can't find such verses in their translations.

What do you want to do with the name of the authors? Their work is easy to access and examined to see if they are right or wrong.
I look at what you have done not who you are.

Remember, no one has seen God at any time.!

brocab:
Jesus

Jesus is the God of jesus ?

Are you saying jesus was the one talking in heb 1:9 ? Ha!

I for one know who jesus called his God . It can be found in john 20:17

Also who jesus called the only true God , it can be found in john 17: 1-3

Also who the disciples call the God of jesus, these can be found in eph 1:3, 2 cor 1:3 and many other verses in the scriptures.

@ brocab

Luke 22:69 "But from now on the son of man will be seated at the right hand of the almighty God.
Jesus wasn't instructed to sit on God's right side, it was His
place to sit there.

Its good you quoted that verse.

1. Can you see where it says " from now on"?
Does this not tell you that jesus was not sitting there before?

2. Can you also read the part that says " the son of man will be seated at the right hand of almighty God?
This tells you that jesus is not almighty God, but a God that is subjected to the almighty God. Sitting at the right hand of God should tell you that jesus is not that same God that he is seated at the right hand of.

3. Now let's see if jesus was instructed to sit at the right hand or not

Ps 110:1
Of David. A melody.
Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”
King James Bible
A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy
footstool.

Matt 22:44
King James Bible
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Heb 1:3
King James Bible
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

So who is the God that told jesus to sit at his right hand? Answer : jehovah.
Who is the God of jesus? The father!

The father instructed jesus to sit at his right hand, jesus did not just sit there on his own, he said "he will be seated there" cus of the assurance giving to him by his God and father despite facing death.

That is why Stevens vision is accurate when he said the following :

Acts 7:55,56
[b]But he, being full of the Holy
Ghost, looked up stedfastly
into heaven, and saw the glory
of God, and Jesus standing on
the right hand of God,

And said, Behold, I see the
heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Hope the holy spirit in you will help you see jesus not as God , but as someone sitting at the right hand of God.
Jesus is not the almighty God, he was instructed by the almighty God to sit at his right hand.

Quote> and yet you refuse to except that the Father was greater then Jesus.
John 14:28 "Jesus said the
Father was greater then He, not because Jesus is not God, but because Jesus was also a
man, and as a man , He was in
a lower position. He was made'
for a little while, lower then the
angels.{Hebrews 2:9}
{Philippians 2:5-8} It says that
Jesus emptied Himself taken a
form of a bond servant and
being made in the likeness of
men... Jesus has two natures:
divine and human, Jesus was
not denying that He was God
He was merely acknowledging
the fact that He was also a man.
Jesus is both God and man, as
a man He was in a lessor
position than the Father
because He had added to
Himself human nature.
Colossians 2:9 "For in Him
dwells all the fullness of the
God head bodily. {And was
under the law}
Galatians 4:4 "But when the
fullness of the time had come,
God sent forth His Son, born of
a woman, born under the law.
{He became a man to die for
the people}

Non of the scriptures you quoted ever said jesus had two natures .

But first let's start from the first verse.
Jesus said the father is greater than him. This statement is true at all point in time, when he was in heaven with the father, when he came to earth and when he returned to heaven, he has always subjected himself to the father, doing the fathers will and receiving instructions from the father.

Did jesus have 2 natures while on earth? No .

When jesus was in heaven, he had that divine nature, but he left that nature and took the nature of man, he did not have both natures at the same time while on earth.
Why do we believe this?
The scriptures say:
Phil 2 :7
rather, he made himself
nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being
made in human likeness.

You can not be nothing if you are taking on a human nature while still having ur divine nature.

Some translations even use " emptied" to signify the complete change in nature.

Verse 8 says: "And being found in fashion as a man,.....

Note it did not say being found in fashion as a man and God. Jesus was now a man, flesh and blood.

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Notice that john said jesus was made flesh, not that he had flesh or added flesh to his divine nature.

Some translations say he " became flesh!" .

The fact that jesus became flesh caused the writer of heb to record what is found at heb 2 :9.

Now some few things for you and everyone to consider.
1. If jesus had two natures, can you give an example of what his divine nature did while on earth?
2. When jesus died according to heb 2:9 did his divine nature die too, did God die?
3. Jesus is in heaven now, does he still have the two natures ? As in , does he still have the slaves nature with the divine nature?
If he does, then its safe to say the father is still greater than jesus cus that's the reason why some say jesus said the father is greater than him.

If he does not, can you now tell us when he removed/left the flesh/slave/human form?

When on earth, jesus at no time said he was God. No verse can you find in the scriptures where jesus himself said so. But numerous occassions abound where he said he is the son of man.

You quoted Col 2:9 , I hope you know that. Jesus had that divine quality cus it pleased the father that such quality dwell in him .

Col 1:19
King James Bible
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

A comparison of difference of position can be found in a marriage relationship. Biblically a husband is greater in position
and authority then His wife.
"He" is her head {Ephesians
5:23} but he is no different in
nature, and he is not better then she.
They share the same nature
being human, and they work
together by commitment to the
Lord.

Another good comparison from you again .
Is the husband and wife same person despite having same nature? No
The jesus is not God cus he has the same nature with God.
Likewise the disciples will not become God when they partake

Is the husband and wife equal despite becoming one flesh? No.
Likewise one cannot say jesus is equal to the father despite being one with father.

The scriptures emphasised the wife subjection to the husband despite being one, despite being same nature. The husband is the head of the wife.

Like wise, the scriptures emphasized the subjection of jesus to his God and father despite jesus being in the same nature with God, despite being one. The scriptures let us know that the head of jesus is God and that the father is the God of jesus .

"for he(1st person) hath put all things under his(2nd person) feet.
But when he(1st p.) saith, all things are put under him(2nd p.), it is manifest that
he(1st p.) is excepted, which did put all things under him(2nd p.). And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Note: up to this moment you have still not, using any translations, told us ur view on the scriptures I posted

brocab:
Do you feel you are alone, that every time someone else answers you, who are not JW's you seem to get yourself all upset, listen we can only give you the truth about Christ because we see Christ as we believe Him to be.
Sharing the word of God to you, brings out the worst in you, you come across very demanding, and we can feel the anger rising up in you.
Does the truth frighten you?

Pls keep your imaginations, expressing what you are thinking on these post does not mean its true.

I humbly asked him a simply question, but you mind is already thinking I'm a north Korean diplomat discussing U.N sanctions.

brocab:
Your a very demanding, and rude of course, I see you like twisting words I have never written,

How on earth can I twist words that you did not write!
If you did not write it, then they are not your words, and thus can't be twisted.!

well done good and faithful servant.

Thank you.

Quote these scriptures again-and again I will give you the right answers.

I'm still waiting for the first answer or your understanding of the scriptures quoted.

Not only does Jesus have a God, He is God, John 1:1, 1 John 5:7, its you and your bible that doesn't believe.

Good, one starts from somewhere, jesus has a God , now do you know who that God is?

samted:
read ephesians 4vs8-9.

Pls can you address the points I raised based on the first scripture you told me to read ?
Remember my question and remember the points are numbered

@ brocad

The proof has travelled across our nations,

Another way to say " I dnt have proof".
Let us know when the proof comes back to visit you.

where and who started your Church, your Church had come from the Masons, the Masons believe Lucifer and Jesus are the same kind, and you believe Jesus is the archangel, God made His
angels to be spirits.

You have the freedom to formulate anything with your mind, but note that when you express it and post it, it gives people an understanding of how your mind works.
An attempt to link things without proof shows others how desperate you are.

No-one is attacking you, but just sometimes people need to hear the truth, and if I was you, which I am not, I would let my fingers do the walking and start searching for this truth, I don't care if you are an elder or a beginner, you have time to be saved.

Thank you, now can you tell us your understanding of the scriptures I quoted.?

The bible was only written because Christ came into the world to save sinners, it was man who have decided to refuse Christ against
themselves and those around
them.

So the scriptures was not written to equip us for every good work?

When I read a book, I prefer to read one with a story, one that's tells it well. When I read 1 John 5:7 "In the King James, I found the bible explains the scripture well enough for me to know the
truth about Christ.
I prefer to understand the story, then waste my time trying to figure it out.

Big difference between us, I prefer to first know if the story I'm reading is true or false.
One can understand a false story, but it does not make the story true.

I HAVE SEEN THE EVIDENCE IN YOURSELF, BECAUSE YOUR BIBLE DOESN'T EXPLAIN THE TRUTH ABOUT CHRIST, YOU JUST CAN'T BELIEVE THE FATHER THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE ONE.

And yet you refused to explained why the many translations I listed do not have that story in 1 john 5:7

[quote]So It's important to have a full version of the scriptures, then just having half of them, and like your bible they have completely removed them, or they have twisted the truth, who Christ is, leaving the people to figure it out for themselves.[/qoute]
Go and meet your teachers, pray that the holy spirit in you helps you to tell us your understanding of the scriptures I posted on these thread!

samted:
so, those who were disobedient in the days of Noah were alive after the resurrection

If by "resurrection" you mean the resurrection of jesus, and if "those who where disobedient" mean humans who where disobedient, the answer is No they where not alive.

So can uou address the points I bought out in my post.? Remember I numbered them.

@ brocab

Quote>I'm just beginning to understand why its hard to read your post most times. {I have a very good reason for you, because you don't understand the word of God} Your silly argument is starting to bore me, only a JW can answer to your scriptures, as proven your scriptures don't match up to the word of God, the New World Translation has half truth
scriptures or they have been
Completely removed from the
bible, and you expect me to
answer your bible for you.

I have even quoted some of those scriptures from the kjv, you still refused to quote it, or tell us ur view or understanding of those scriptures .
Anyone serious about talking about the scriptures can, if he prefers to use his own translations ,quote (using his bible )the verses metioned.

You dnt like the nwt, then use the kjv to explain, give us your understanding of the scriptures I've been quoting.

I'm beginning to understand that you know little about the doctrine you are supporting.

I have given you the King James version, and you don't understand that, I can't pull a rabbit out of a hat, and I am not interested to learn about your bible, I am not looking for half truths or missing truths.
I believe in the full truth, I am a
Born again Christian, I love
whom I worship, I believe Jesus Christ is Lord, I believe God had raised Him from the dead. I also believed when Jesus said He will raise Himself up in three days, I believed. I also believe
in all the scriptures written in
the bible.
I believe that the trinity of the
Father and the Son and the
Holy Spirit are One.
So if you are looking for people
to answer your JW translation
for you, you need to speak with your own kind

You dnt know the trinity.
You say you showed me the kjv, yet you refused to tell ur understanding of scriptures quoted from the kjv.

You believe the scriptures, yet you refuse to accept that jesus has a God!
You refuse to accept that the God of jesus is the father!
You read the scriptures, yet you refuse to accept that the father is greater than jesus.

You say jesus is God, yet you see where the scriptures tell you that he was instructed to sit at the right hand of the most high.

I corrected you about the issue of false doctrine you tried to raise.
Now , pls go back to that post and tell us ur understand of the scriptures quoted there using any translation you prefer .

samted:
1 peter 3:18 - 20. Please read.

Sir, did you read the verses you told me to read ? Cus it did not answer my request .

Note what you posted below :

however, what you missed out is that he went to preach to the souls that were in hell at the time.

Correct me if I'm wrong , but I believe that what you are saying is that while jesus was in hell, he went to preach to the souls there.

This prompted me to ask you to give me scriptural prove to this belief.
I dnt know why you did not quote the verses, but the verses you told me read says things differently.

First ill quote the verse, then examine it in relation to what you said.

1 pet 3:18-20
"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the
unrighteous, to bring you to
God. He was put to death in
the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,"

What do we get from these verses.
1. Jesus died
2. Jesus was resurrected.
3. After resurrection, he went and made proclamation.
4. He made proclamation to spirits.
5. He made proclamation to imprisioned spirits.

This understanding goes contrary to your post.
1. You said jesus went to preach to the souls that where in hell, but these verses made us to understand that he did the preaching after resurrection, after he was raised up. Did jesus go to hell twice? Cus I thought he came out of hell after resurrection, how did he go back to hell after resurrection to preach to the souls there.?

2. The verses said he proclaimed/ preach to spirits.
But you say he preached to souls. the English , greek and hebrew words for "soul" and "spirit" are totally different and mean different things, why do you now say he preached to souls when the verses mentioned spirits.

3. Does a mans spirit goes to hell? can you show where in the scriptures it is said that when man dies, his spirit goes to hell?

4. I noticed that the verses did not say or imply that jesus preached In hell, it said he "preached " to those imprisoned. It did not say they are dead humans and are in hell, so how did you now arrive at that view when you read those verses.

I await ur response.

@ brocab:

What you aren't understanding is "your dead spiritually, you have no spirit living inside you, you don't recognize the scriptures, not only myself but I am sure many who have written to you, have shared the bible to you, and
still' you can't see the word sitting in front of you. You are like the dead trying to live. The blind don't see, what the blind don't know.

Attacking me wunt help you.
Attacking me wunt make you right.
If you have the holy spirit, then tell us ur understanding of the scriptures posted in my reply to you.
If you have the holy spirit, show humility.

You are comparing the New World Translation with the King James, which makes this
conversation difficult.

The comparing of translations only exist in your mind, and its affecting your understanding of the scriptures thereby making you refuse to explain scriptures posted to you either from the nwt or kjv.

I have given you the answers from the King James, and you keep on rebuking the word of God, you have even wrote a list of false doctrines, you believe are written from the King James, are not correct.

You have an ability, the ability to create false stories and statement without backup.

Even as you falsely think I wrote a list of false doctrines from the kjv, u refuse to show how those verses are true and thus proving me wrong. You are even afraid to quote some of those verses when you respond to my post.

The authors who wrote your bible have either removed or have twisted bible scriptures, John 1:1 is a good example. Acts 8:37 is another good example. Matthew 17:21 is missing, Matthew 18:11 is also missing, Matthew 23:14. Mark 7:16, 9:44, 9:46, 11:26 15:28. Mark 16:9-20 is totally missing. Luke 17:36, 23:17. John 5:4, 7:53, 8:11. Acts 8:37, 15:34, 24:7, 28:29. Romans 16:24. Colossians 1:2, 2:2. 1 John 5:13, Revelation 1:11, 2:15, 21:24.
1 John 5:7 Vitally important
phase COMPLETELY removed
"in the Jehovah Witnesses "New
World Translation" says, "For are
three witness bearers.
What does the real bible say?
"For there are three that bear
record in heaven, the Father the
word and the Holy Ghost. And
these three are One.
This is one of the greatest verses
testifying of the trinity. This is why
the Jehovah Witnesses leave it
out. They do not believe in the
trinity and they do not believe
that Jesus is God.
So you can see, no-one in their
right mind will seriously listen to
you preach your bible, Its proven
facts your bible is a lie from the
beginning, and it's people like
you who have been deceived by this lie.

You have just shown again that you know little about the scriptures and translations.

You emphasized that the nwt does not translate 1 john 5:7 as the kjv does. Yet you refuse to take note that the following translations also do not translate that verse the same way the kjv did.


1. New International Version
2. New Living Translation
3. English Standard Version
4. Berean Study Bible
5. Berean Literal Bible
6. New American Standard
Bible
7. Holman Christian Standard
Bible
8. International Standard
Version
9. NET Bible
10. Aramaic Bible in Plain
English
11. GOD'S WORD® Translation
12. New American Standard
1977
13. American Standard Version
14. Darby Bible Translation
15. English Revised Version
16. Weymouth New Testament
17. World English Bible
18. NWT

....and many more.

Note, most of these translators surpport trinity and yet they do not add the words you quoted on that verse.

I'm surprised you did not add 1 ti 3:16 to the verses you have issues with .at least kjv translated it thus:

King James Bible
And without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of
angels, preached unto the
Gentiles, believed on in the
world, received up into glory.

Ill ask you, is the kjv right with that translation? And why do most translators that surpport trinity translate that verse differently.

Ill advise you to go and ask your religious leaders about those verses before you reply.

The New World Translation was written back in 1872 by Charles Russell who was a 33 Rd degree
Freemason. Russell didn't leave the Masons until he had died, Masons don"t believe any truth concerning Christ.
Matter of fact the Masons believe that Lucifer is the same as Jesus Christ. The same as the JW's believe, Jesus is the archangel, both Lucifer and Michael are angels. And God made the angels Spirits.
So if you are worried what
people will think about me, don't be? I believe they are more interested in hearing the truth.

At least add prove to support these lies na.

Again ill post below the points you refuse to talk about in my post.

1. Look at your quote of john 17:3 again tell us if you deliberately misquoted the verse or it was just a mistake you made.
I made effort to quote the verse for you again, and you are still refusing to tell us ur
understanding of the verse.

2. Be looking for author while
refusing to address the fact that you removed Gods name from the bible verse you quoted.

1. No you have not, you only
quoted 2 translations without
telling us why one person
called himself the God of
another .
"You loved righteousness,
and you hated lawlessness.
That is why God, your God,
anointed you with the oil of
exultation more than your
companions"

2. I dnt know if its deliberate or a mistake,*(talking about what you posted on john 17:3) but these is what is recorded in john 17:3
"This means everlasting life,
their coming to know you,
the only true God, and the
one whom you sent, Jesus
Christ."
The kjv translated it thus :
And this is life eternal, that
they might know thee the only
true God, and Jesus Christ,
whom thou hast sent.
So I dnt know which verse
you quoted, but more painful
is the fact that you refuse to
tell us ur understanding of any
of them(both the john 17:3
you quoted and the one I
quoted)

3.I , you , everyone reading this
thread can see that you have
once again refused to explain or
give ur understanding of that
verse. Quoting it completely is
now even hard for you to do.
John 20:17
King James Bible
Jesus saith unto her, Touch
me not; for I am not yet
ascended to my Father: but
go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my
Father, and your Father; and
to my God, and your God.

4.Jesus was giving obeisance
as the bible and Jesus has
always indicated that it is only
the father, jehovah that must
be worshiped.
Note the fact that it is God, the
father, the God of Jesus, the
only true God that authorised
this obeisance.
Jesus is not the true God, not
the almighty God, not equal to
the almighty God, not the
father.

5. Another 2 verses to consider :
1 pet 1:3
King James Bible
"Blessed be the God and
Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ, which according to his
(to show that God is a person)
abundant mercy hath
begotten us again unto a lively
hope by the resurrection of
Jesus Christ from the dead."
Nwt
1 cor 15 :24
"Next, the end, when he
hands over the Kingdom to
his God and Father, when he
has brought to nothing all
government and all authority
and power."

samted:
accurately answered. however, what you missed out is that he went to preach to the souls that were in hell at the time. a place a temporal rest before final judgement. This happened because the people of old didn't have as much opportunuities to believe as we have now. (i'm talking as far back as the days of Noah)

Now, Jesus went to hell or the dead or hades. Not the lake of fire. Now, read Revelations 20:13.The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.)

this means that, when people die, there is a place they will repose before final judgement.

Rev 20v14-15 continue and say [/i]Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.[i]

This suggests that hell will be destroyed by being cast into the lake of fire along with those whose names aren't found in the book of life. i.e those who have refused salvation even after death.

Simply put, Hell exists and is quite different from the lake of fire. Hell is not equal to the lake of fire but it is definitely stated in the Bible.

Pls sir, can you add scriptural reference to the bolded, expecially the underlined?

brocab:
Here it is? you wrote it under the false doctrine section.
@ dolphinheart>False doctrine.
1 cor 8:6
...we have but one God , the father.

John 17 :3
...... The only true God.....

Eph 4:6
...one God and father of all.

John 20:17said Jesus called the father his God and our God.
Or maybe you mean the JW's have twisted these scriptures to make them sound, only to your likings?

I'm just beginning to understand why its hard to read your post mostimes.
The statement "false doctrine" is in reference to your post above that statement.

The post was posted 10:48 PM on Jan 11.
You made a doctrinal statement and I told you it was false, citing several scriptures to back up the fact that your doctrine is false.

You are here talking about the statement " false doctrine" and one again refused to give ur view on the scriptures quoted in the post.

Pls go back to that post and tell us ur understand of the scriptures quoted there.

malvisguy212:
the Holy spirit is a person,He Acts As A Person
a. He teaches (John 14:26)
b. He testifies (John 15:26)
c. He guides into all truth, He hears,
speaks, shows ( John 16:13)
d. He prays for us (Romans 8:26)
He Has The Attributes of A Person,what constitute a person ? Is it not feeling emotion and grieve ? The scripture teaches the holy Spirit has all this attitude. If the Holy spirit has All this attribute, then He is God, a person, He is among the Godhead.

In John 3, Jesus shares how one can
be born-again. In verse 5, what must
take place if a person is to be a born
again Christian? He must be born of
water and the Spirit
Can anyone truly acknowledge Jesus
as Lord and Savior apart from the Holy
Spirit's work in his heart according to 1
Corinthians 12:3? NO

1 Corinthians 12:3
3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
ALL three is involved in a person salvation.

Weave been here before, and as expected you wunt comment on glaring scriptural verses shown to you.
You try to jump to another topic without giving an explanation when confronted with scriptural facts.
You have just refused to reply on trinity and jump on holy spirit as person theory.

You refuse to answer question on baptism and jump to born again.

By the way, who gave out the holy spirit, jesus, the father or the spirit itself.?

@ brocab:

Its no good denying what the JW's believe in. Jesus is the archangel and God is a person, you have said it yourself.

Pls show where i said anything about the bold above.
I've deliberately not said anything cus I see you want to use it to change the discussion and not comment or tell us ur understanding of the verses I've been posting and the explanations I've been giving.
That I've not made mention of it does not mean I'm denying it, there is a big difference between the two.

Let the hole world see you are even willing to lie against your own religion, to prove what?
That you don't believe in Christ.

Did you read what you posted at all. Pls wait till I lie first ok, wonder how you came about the view that I'm willing to lie!

You have already written the bible has false doctrines, now you are saying that John 17:3 is either deliberate or a mistake.

Where did I say that o!
Dnt you read a post before commenting on it!

Look at your quote of john 17:3 again tell us if you deliberately misquoted the verse or it was just a mistake you made.

I made effort to quote the verse for you again, and you are still refusing to tell us ur understanding of the verse.

So how can anyone take you seriously.
Matter of fact none of your
scriptures from the New World
Translation bible match up with the word of God.

Frivolous statements wunt help.

Plus you have refused to answer my questions? what
was the name of the author who translated your bible from
Greek to English?

Be looking for author while refusing to address the fact that you removed Gods name from the bible verse you quoted.

Again ill post below, the parts of my post you refuse to address :

1. No you have not, you only
quoted 2 translations without
telling us why one person
called himself the God of
another .
"You loved righteousness,
and you hated lawlessness.
That is why God, your God,
anointed you with the oil of
exultation more than your
companions"

2. I dnt know if its deliberate or a mistake,*(talking about what you posted on john 17:3) but these is what is recorded in john 17:3
"This means everlasting life,
their coming to know you,
the only true God, and the
one whom you sent, Jesus
Christ."
The kjv translated it thus :
And this is life eternal, that
they might know thee the only
true God, and Jesus Christ,
whom thou hast sent.
So I dnt know which verse
you quoted, but more painful
is the fact that you refuse to
tell us ur understanding of any
of them(both the john 17:3
you quoted and the one I
quoted)

3.I , you , everyone reading this thread can see that you have once again refused to explain or give ur understanding of that verse. Quoting it completely is now even hard for you to do.
John 20:17
King James Bible
Jesus saith unto her, Touch
me not; for I am not yet
ascended to my Father: but
go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my
Father, and your Father; and
to my God, and your God.

4.Jesus was giving obeisance
as the bible and Jesus has
always indicated that it is only
the father, jehovah that must
be worshiped.
Note the fact that it is God, the
father, the God of Jesus, the
only true God that authorised
this obeisance.
Jesus is not the true God, not
the almighty God, not equal to
the almighty God, not the
father.

5. Another 2 verses to consider :
1 pet 1:3
King James Bible
"Blessed be the God and
Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ, which according to his
(to show that God is a person)
abundant mercy hath
begotten us again unto a lively
hope by the resurrection of
Jesus Christ from the dead."
Nwt
1 cor 15 :24
"Next, the end, when he
hands over the Kingdom to
his God and Father, when he
has brought to nothing all
government and all authority
and power."

brocab:
Wait you have John 17:1-3 under the false doctrine section, as well as 1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6, John 20:17 and now you are using John 17 to back up your argument..

Do not deviate , pls respond to the scriptures and comments I posted. Its posted again below :

The bible has called jesus a god, and I'm not saying it has not. But the bible has also told me on several occasions that jesus has a God. A god who sent him, commands him, anointed him and told him what to do. Jesus also confirms these by telling us who that God is.

John 17:1-3
[b]Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, just as you have given him authority over all flesh, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given
to him. This means
everlasting life, their coming to
know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Heb 1:3-6(note the underlined and comment on it)
[b]He is the reflection of God’s
glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, (a)he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. So he has (b)become better than the angels to the extent that (c)he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.
For example, to which one
of the angels did God ever say:
(d)“You are my son; today I have become your father”? And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”?
But when he again brings his
Firstborn into the inhabited
earth, he says: “And let all of
God’s angels do obeisance to
him.”.

(a) jesus is not the majesty on high, the majesty on high instructed him to sit at his right side. Therefore jesus is not almighty God or has equal authority with almighty God.
Jesus sat there only after he should loyalty to the point of death on earth.

(b)jesus BECAME better than the angels. Unless we are in the same group or are competing over something. One cannot be said to become better than the other. Note the verse did not say jesus has been better but became better!
If you feel I'm wrong , please tell us ur understanding of jesus became better than the angels.

(c) jesus inherited a name more excellent than the angels.
These shows that their was a time jesus did not have that name.
Who did jesus inherit the name from. It must surely be from someone superior to him.

(d)when was the statement made? And the answer to that question is : jesus Christ!.


Ex 20:2-5
[b]“I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You must not have
any other gods besides me.
“You must not make for
yourself a carved image or a
form like anything that is in the
heavens above or on the earth
below or in the waters under the earth. You must not bow
down to them nor be enticed to
serve them, for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation of those who hate me,....

Is jesus jehovah? No

John 4:21,22,34
Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You
worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him.
Jesus said to them: “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work

Did you see above who jesus called the God that the Jews know and worship? The one who told them to worship only him ? The father.

Did jesus sought worship giving to the father ?

John 4:8
In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”

Matt 2:1-2: pagan worshipers, astrologers, Magi from the east came to meet jesus, and you follow their practices. Well the verses did not tell us that the isrealites(shepherds) who worship God did the same thing. Dnt know why you added them.

Another verse to consider :

1 cor 11 :3
But I want you(brocab) to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God..

@ brocab

Maybe you could share a little light on the author who changed it from the Greek translation to English? Matter of fact do you know any of the names, who wrote your bible? Allow me to shed a little light on this subject.

Dnt change the subject Below is my post again:
The words of john 1:1 was written in greek , the new world translation translated those words into English. They did not change the words. Hope u understand the difference between translation of words and changing of words . Yep life is hard when you dnt listen, let alone understand the scriptures. You just quoted the verse,but you refused to explain the underlined. Are the angels spirits? Are they called sons of God? And john did tell you what Jesus told mary right?. Gods spirit descended like a dove on Jesus, yet another voice was heard from heaven. This shows that Gods spirit is not God!. And yet you still refuse to explain those verses using either nwt translation or the kjv. You are right to say God(a person) is talking to his son (another person). Therefore Jesus is not the God talking there.

@ brocab

That's funny you did say you have a King James bible, along with your New World Translation.

Lying against me will get you nowhere.

The King James does say Adam seen the Lord God
walking in the garden.

And yet you refused to quote the kjv that said so, so that everyone reading the thread can check if its you or I that's lying.

Maybe your kjv is different from these ones below .

King James Bible
And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

King James 2000 Bible
And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

American King James Version
And they heard the voice ......

You deliberately ignored my accusation that you have joined those who deliberately removed the name of the most high God from the scriptures and replaced it with "lord" cus it suits your false doctrine, as calling that name will make your attempt to link jesus with that verse harder.

Jesus wanted to make that name known to all, but you are against it.

Does this mean you don't use the king James bible, but you prefer to use a bible that's partly scriptural.

Funny, just quoted the kjv for you to reply on.

Revelation 1:1-2 "The
Revelation of Jesus Christ
which God gave unto Him, to
shew unto His servants things
that shortly come to pass, and
He sent and signified it by His
angel unto His servant John,
who bare record of the word of
God, and the testimony of
Jesus Christ, and all things that He saw. Not only John, but His other servants too.

Good you know that it was God that gave jesus the revelation.
And I hope you remember who taught jesus all the things he taught us while on earth. Read below

John 7:16
Jesus answered, "My teaching
is not my own. It comes from
the one who sent me.

Who sent jesus? The father, the only true God.

Its funny, the JW's have been claiming Jesus isn't God in word, and yet the JW's
teachings are the opposite,
Firstly you believe God is a
person, and you believe Jesus
is the archangel Michael.
Hebrews 1:4-7 "Having
Become so much better then
the angels as He has by
inheritance obtained a more
excellent name then they, For
which of the angels did He say:
you are My Son, Today I have
begotten you. Again I will be to
Him a Father, And He shall be
to Me a Son, But when He
again brings the first born into
the world, He says "let all the
angels of God worship Him.
So if this is the case as the
word of God says, and Jesus is the archangel, He couldn't
worship Himself, and God did
say He had a Son, and He said
let all the angels of God worship
Him, and God made the angels
spirits, so this means Michael
too.
THIS LEAVES GOD
STANDING AND BECAUSE
YOU BELIEVE GOD IS A
PERSON, THEN IT WOULD
HAVE TO BE 'GOD' WHO
CAME IN THE FLESH, AND
LIVED AMONGST MEN
This is what the JW's teach,
how interesting? And you don't
even know it.

If you had taking time to listen to them, you would have understood what they are telling you.

It seems you are confused about which bible has the false doctrines, when we look into the New World Translation that bible proves most scriptures have either been twisted in word, or it's been removed.

Are you a politician?
Attacking the nwt will not automatically make the kjv correct or does it?

Answer the allegations made agaist you and the genesis verse you quoted.

Lets look at Acts 8:37 just one of the many scriptures moved from your bible. That you call false.

You need to do an indept study on why mordern translations and translators removed acts 8:37 from their translations.
And pls stop acting as if its only the nwt that did it!

If God made Jesus to be an angel then He is Spirit and In Genius 1 It does say all to their own kind.
How about asking a few of
these questions?

??

@ brocab

Good you are now trying to answer for him since he can't, or has refused to give us his understanding of the scriptures mentioned to him.

Let's look at what you have to say.

Well I have already answered Hebrews 1:9

No you have not, you only quoted 2 translations without telling us why one person called himself the God of another .

"You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions"

John 17:3 "And now O Father glorify Me with yourself, with the glory I had with You before the world was.

I dnt know if its deliberate or a mistake, but these is what is recorded in john 17:3

"This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."

The kjv translated it thus :
And this is life eternal, that
they might know thee the only
true God, and Jesus Christ,
whom thou hast sent.

So I dnt know which verse you quoted, but more painful is the fact that you refuse to tell us ur understanding of any of them(both the john 17:3 you quoted and the one I quoted)

John 20:17 Do not cling to Me.
It shows you have pick out
these verses just to clarify your argument, every verse has a chapter, and that chapter has a story, picking out one verse from the pile doesn't mean you have finished the chapter, it just shows us your arguments can only be led in the flesh. Without you understanding the word of
God makes life a little harder,
you believe God is a person-
you also believe Jesus is the
archangel.

I , you , everyone reading this thread can see that you have once again refused to explain or give ur understanding of that verse. Quoting it completely is now even hard for you to do.

John 20:17

King James Bible
Jesus saith unto her, Touch
me not; for I am not yet
ascended to my Father: but go
to my brethren, and say unto
them, I ascend unto my
Father, and your Father; and
to my God, and your God.

Hebrews 1:5-7 "For to which of the angels did He ever say; You are My Son, today I have begotten You, again, I will be to Him a Father,And He shall be to
Me a Son, but when He again
brings the first born into the
world, He says let all the angels
of God worship Him. And of the
angels He says: who makes
His angels Spirits, and His
servants a flame of fire.
These verses tells us clearly,
God had made the angels
spirits, and He says let all the
angels worship Jesus.
What puzzles me, you believe
Jesus is the archangel Michael.
Of course Jesus couldn't
worship Himself, because God
had a Son, and God did say He
had made the angels to worship
His Son Jesus, and if you say
Jesus is the archangel; then
without having any thought God
"Is" His Son Jesus' Likewise
and the angels worship Him.

Its only you that can explain what you posted.
Jesus was giving obeisance as the bible and jesus has always indicated that it is only the father, jehovah that must be worshiped.
Note the fact that it is God, the father, the God of jesus, the only true God that authorised this obeisance.
Jesus is not the true God, not the almighty God, not equal to the almighty God, not the father.

Another 2 verses to consider :

1 pet 1:3
King James Bible
"Blessed be the God and
Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ, which according to his(to show that God is a person) abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."

Nwt
1 cor 15 :24
"Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority
and power."

brocab:
@Dolphinheart.
Its funny, your argument doesn't make any sense; you believe God is a person, and Jesus is the archangel, with this info, the JW's have already proven to the world Jesus is God likewise, and you don't even know it.
Hebrews 1:4-7
Exodus 20:3-5 "God say's you shall not worship any other gods before Me.
Matthew 2:1-2 "And after Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the kings and the shepherds worshipped Him.

The bible has called jesus a god, and I'm not saying it has not. But the bible has also told me on several occasions that jesus has a God. A god who sent him, commands him, anointed him and told him what to do. Jesus also confirms these by telling us who that God is.

John 17:1-3
[b]Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, just as you have given him authority over all flesh, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given
to him. This means
everlasting life, their coming to
know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Heb 1:3-6(note the underlined and comment on it)
[b]He is the reflection of God’s
glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, (a)he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. So he has (b)become better than the angels to the extent that (c)he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.
For example, to which one
of the angels did God ever say:
(d)“You are my son; today I have become your father”? And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”?
But when he again brings his
Firstborn into the inhabited
earth, he says: “And let all of
God’s angels do obeisance to
him.”.

(a) jesus is not the majesty on high, the majesty on high instructed him to sit at his right side. Therefore jesus is not almighty God or has equal authority with almighty God.
Jesus sat there only after he should loyalty to the point of death on earth.

(b)jesus BECAME better than the angels. Unless we are in the same group or are competing over something. One cannot be said to become better than the other. Note the verse did not say jesus has been better but became better!
If you feel I'm wrong , please tell us ur understanding of jesus became better than the angels.

(c) jesus inherited a name more excellent than the angels.
These shows that their was a time jesus did not have that name.
Who did jesus inherit the name from. It must surely be from someone superior to him.

(d)when was the statement made? And the answer to that question is : jesus Christ!.


Ex 20:2-5
[b]“I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You must not have
any other gods besides me.
“You must not make for
yourself a carved image or a
form like anything that is in the
heavens above or on the earth
below or in the waters under the earth. You must not bow
down to them nor be enticed to
serve them, for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation of those who hate me,....

Is jesus jehovah? No

John 4:21,22,34
Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You
worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him.
Jesus said to them: “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work

Did you see above who jesus called the God that the Jews know and worship? The one who told them to worship only him ? The father.

Did jesus sought worship giving to the father ?

John 4:8
In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”

Matt 2:1-2: pagan worshipers, astrologers, Magi from the east came to meet jesus, and you follow their practices. Well the verses did not tell us that the isrealites(shepherds) who worship God did the same thing. Dnt know why you added them.

Another verse to consider :

1 cor 11 :3
But I want you(brocab) to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God..

@ brocad.

You had denied that the JW's didn't changed any of the words around that's written in John 1:1
"and yet your New World
Translation bible reads it out
pretty clearly, In {the} beginning
the word was, and the word
was with God, and the word
was a god.

The words of john 1:1 was written in greek , the new world translation translated those words into English. They did not change the words. Hope u understand the difference between translation of words and changing of words .

It makes life harder when one like yourself isn't listening, let alone understanding any of the
scriptures.

Yep life is hard when you dnt listen, let alone understand the scriptures.

Hebrews 1:4-6 "Having become much better then the angels, as He had inherited a more excellent name then they, for in which of the angels did God ever say, you are My Son,
today I have begotten you? And again I will be a father to Him and He shall be a Son to Me. And when He brings in the first born into the world, He says let all the angels of God worship Him.

You just quoted the verse,but you refused to explain the underlined.

Acts 13:33 "He has fulfilled for us, their children by raising up Jesus, As it is written in the second psalm, "You are My Son and today I have become your Father.
The Sons of God are not Spirits,
Genius 6 is clearly man, God
said My Spirit will not strive with
man forever, for he is indeed
flesh. And He said I will destroy
man, whom I have created from
the face of the earth, If angels
were capable of reproducing as man kind does, their of spring would be spirit. According to its
principle, according to its kind.
portrayed in Genus 1.

Are the angels spirits?
Are they called sons of God?

What makes this statement harder, God has already told us, who He is in the Bible, John had even told you who God is, he had seen the Spirit of God descending above Jesus, but you keep on putting God on a person, Jesus is the one who
became a man, God had
always described Himself as a
Spirit.

And john did tell you what jesus told mary right?.
Gods spirit descended like a dove on jesus, yet another voice was heard from heaven. This shows that Gods spirit is not God!.

And if I was to be equal to my Father, I would be my Father.
New World Translation bible
Hebrews 1:8-9 "But about the
Son he says God is your
throne, forever and ever, the
scepter of your Kingdom, and
the scepter of up-
righteousness. Verse 9 " You
loved righteousness and you
Hated lawlessness, That is why thy God your God has anointed you, with the oil of exultation more then your companions.
The King James bible Hebrews
1:6-11 " And again when God
brings the first born in to the
world, He said let all God's
angels worship Him. He makes
His angels spirits and His
servants flames of fire.
But about His Son He says,
"Your throne O God, will last
forever and ever, a scepter of
justice will be a scepter of your
Kingdom, you have loved
righteous and you have hated
wickedness; therefore God
your God have sent you above
all companions, by anointing
you with the oil of joy. He also
says in the beginning Lord you
laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the works
of your hands.
A big difference between two
bibles. It shows God is talking
to His Son Jesus. No wonder
you are confused .
dolphinheart:

And yet you still refuse to explain those verses using either nwt translation or the kjv.

You are right to say God(a person) is talking to his son(another person). Therefore jesus is not the God talking there

@ brocab:

None so what you have written makes any sense.
Jesus is the author of the book
John said In the beginning was
the word, John was talking
about Jesus not himself.

You yourself have said it: " john was talking" .
To give you a glimpse of who the author of the inspired scriptures is read rev 1:1

The revelation from Jesus
Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John.

John can only be the
messenger, who prepared the
way for Christ.

It seems you are mistaken about the john we are talking about.

Matthew 3:16-19 "John seen the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and he heard a voice from the heavens, saying this is My beloved Son. Which proves God is a Spirit God spells it out pretty clear to us in the bible, who He is, God is Spirit, God is Love, John said He had seen the Spirit of God descending above Jesus.
God is the Spirit and the Son
became flesh and the Holy
Spirit are all part of the tri-unity
meaning one God existing in 3
co-existing persons.

God is spirit and God came down like a dove, yes you can't explain who is talking in heaven.

Understand this is not, in any way suggesting 3 God's, even the word trinity isn't written in the bible, this is a term used to describe triune God. 3 co- existed co-eternal persons to make up God.

A term that has no scriptural backup .
a co existence and co- eternal that has no direct reference in the scriptures.

Of real importance is that the concept represents by the word "Trinity"does exist in scripture.
This is what God says about
the trinity, There is One God
Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear "O
Israel The Lord our God the
Lord is One.
Isaiah 6:8 "And I heard the
voice of the Lord saying, "whom
shall I send and who will go for
us, Than I said, here I am! send
Me.
Genius 1:26 "God said let us
make man in our own image,
after our likeness.
Genius 3:22 "Then God said,
behold the man has become
like one of us knowing Good
and Evil.

You quote scriptures with no explanations.
Is God talking to himself?
Who are the others he is talking to? Are they Gods too?

In the bible Jesus was always knowing as the Lord, and God as the Father God. Adam said
He had seen the Lord God
walking in the garden, He never said he seen the Father and the Son walking in the garden.

So who did adam see? The father, jesus or the holy spirit .
Is the person of jesus also the person called the father?
If they are not the same person, which of them did adam see?

I dnt know which bible translation you use, but all I've read never said adam saw Lord God walking in the garden.

Second, can you tell me why you decided not to use the original word for Gods name in that verse but prefer to use "lord".

Isaiah 48:16-17 "Draw near to Me, hear this from the
beginning, I have not spoken in
secret, from the time it came to
be, I have been there, and now
the Lord God had sent Me and
His Spirit. thus says the Lord
God your redeemer, the Holy
one of Israel, I am the Lord your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads by the way you should go.

You have joined those who have deliberately removed the name of God so that their false doctrine can seem to fit the scriptures.
Unless you can prove that the Tetragrammaton in that verse Means "Lord ", ur explanation shows a desperate attempt at using the removal of Gods name to support a false doctrine.
Anyone who has doubt on what I'm saying can ask him to explain such removal.

Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations and baptising them in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. All 3 are One.

Dnt add to the verse pls, the underlined is not part of the scriptures .

Jesus needed God just as much He needed His Spirit. His power came from the Spirit.

Therefore jesus is not God.

Jesus was the son before He was born as a child in Bethlehem.

Same as all other angelic creatures in heaven, yet they are not God.

Each member of the trinity is God, the Father is God.
The Son is God John 1:1.
The Holy Spirit is God 1
Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not
know you are God's temple,
and that God's Spirit dwells in
you.

False doctrine.
1 cor 8:6
...we have but one God , the father.

John 17 :3
...... The only true God.....

Eph 4:6
...one God and father of all.

John 20:17said jesus called the father his God and our God.

John 17:21 "Father you are in Me and I am in you.
It shows you are confused, this
scripture doesn't say we are
equal with Jesus, it says let our Spirit reside in them, He told His disciples, He will send them another helper the Holy Spirit, and He will teach them all things concerning Jesus. This is what the verse means the Spirit of God now lives in each of us who believe, like God lived in Jesus. This is the
witness to prove that God had
sent Jesus into the world. His
Spirit teaches us the hidden
secrets about the word of God.

So jesus is not God cus he is in the father and the father in him, just as the disciples dnt become God cus they are in God and jesus.
Gods spirit coming into the disciples does not make jesus God same as the spirit coming into the disciples does not make them God .
Who commands the holy spirit, jesus or God? The scriptures shows that jesus asks from the holy spirit from the father.
I wonder why all commands, authority, teachings, power, knowledge of future events and actions comes from the father! Maybe because he is the only true God!, the almighty!

You have shown again that you will not address the scriptures mentioned earlier which shows you who our God is and his relationship with jesus. Though I know you wunt address them, but let me add one more .
Heb 9:24
For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, so that he(jesus/first person) now appears before God(the father/

MrPresident1:
Jesus Christ is the image of God, the fullness of the Godhead expressed bodily. Jesus Christ is the full representation of God.

Collosians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

If the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus Christ bodily, it means that Jesus Christ is God bodily, the full express image of the eternally invisible God expressed bodily.

You said it again , jesus is representantion or image .

Read Col 1:19

malvisguy212:
1. Jesus’s humanity is displayed in the fact that he was born as a baby from a
human mother (Luke 2:7)

Yep , jesus was concieved

Jesus is fully God,Jesus is God, but he is
not the Father or the Holy Spirit. Jesus is
God the Son.

The statement "God the son" is not in the scriptures and neither does it have scriptural surpport.

Ur statement above also does not prove jesus was fully God while on earth.
You say "jesus is God" but the bible has giving us numerous instances where God is talking to jesus and giving jesus instructions. Hope you are not trying to say God is talking to himself! As we have read about jesus being in the presence of God also.

2. You said" God the son is not in the bible ? Wrong. John 1:14, says “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.”

Again the statement "God the son" cannot be found in these verse.

In context, the Word is God the Son and the word was beggoten from the father.

The statement " the word is God the son " does not have scriptural backing , neither can that statement be found anywhere in the scriptures.

Pls can you explain how the word was begotten from the father?

3. Yes, the holy spirit is God , the holy spirit, he alone know the depth of God;
1 Corinthians 2:10–11
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
11 For who among men knows the
thoughts of a man except the spirit of
the man which is in him? Even so the
thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.

Yet jesus says no one knows certain things except God.
Now is your spirit you? or that it knows your thoughts.
Likewise the scriptures did not say the spirit is God but it knows Gods thoughts.

And also Read Acts 5:1-6. According to verse 3, who did Ananias lie to ? HOLY SPIRIT Then in verse 4, who is Ananias accused of lying to? GOD

Is this how you personaly came about the word " God the holy spirit" ?

Why did peter tell ananias that he had lied against God? Because it was God who gave out the holy spirit to them.

Let's examine the scriptures
1 cor 11:3
But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.

Col 1:18
and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might become the one who is first in all things;

And what did the head of the church do with what was giving from his own head to the congregation?
John 14:26
But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach
you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.

Acts 2:33
Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear.

You can see that the holy spirit came from the father, to act as as guide to the congregation.
Ananias lied not only against the holy spirit who guides the congregation, but lied against the father who is the overall head.
And who is the father?

1 cor 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Peter had one God who is the father, hence he could rightly say that ananias lied against God who gave the holy spirit.

4. According to Matthew 28:19, the
disciples must baptize in what name?
FATHER,SON and the HOLY SPIRIT. The verse say NAME (singularity) and mention 3 personalities (father, son and holy spirit) which is the Godhead.
In isaiah

Does matt 28:19 call them the Godhead? No

Can you tell us that name you keep emphasising on?
And most importantly , can you give us a scriptural example of such baptism in that singular name.

Note: your reply must contain your own view of the scriptures I quoted .

MuttleyLaff:
''became flesh'' is what incarnate is about

malvisguy212 is tying self up in knots trying to explain this thing
and you dolphinheart are helping him misusing possession for incarnation (i.e. embodiment)
by suggesting he is implying that ''Jesus is possessed by God the Son''
when what malvisguy212 actually wanted to explain with his example was God became flesh, God became human

With the exception of God, spirits, whether good or evil ones (e.g. demons, satan angels, other celestial being),
cannot or do not become flesh (i.e. incarnation)

malvisguy212 and dolphinheart, give a honest reply to these 2 below:
Is it possible or impossible for God to be in two places at the same time?
Is it possible or impossible for God to be simultaneously and concurrently in heaven Spirit mode by default and on earth in the flesh?

I dnt know about him tying himself up in a knot, it remains for him to give further explanations on his post with scriptural backing for us to see if he is right or wrong.

I wunt comment on what you said he is trying to say, ill wait for him to give his own explanation.

To ur first question: I do not know all that God can or cannot do or rather will or will not do, therefore I cannot say if its possible or impossible for God to be present at two places at same time. Moreover I'm not an expert on time and dnt know how God views time. But this is what I know from the scriptures

1 ki 8:49 :
then hear from the heavens, your dwelling place, their prayer and their request for favor, and execute judgment for them

John 16:28
I came as the Father’s representative and have come into the world. Now I am leaving the world and am going to the Father.”

Heb 9:24
For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, so that he now appears before God on our behalf.

The scriptures has been consistent about the location of God and has never mentioned him dwelling in two places at same time.

The second question is dependent on which God you are refering to.
But there has been no mention of jesus who was made flesh still residing in heaven or as a spirit creature while he was on earth. He was always making reference to his leaving, coming from, going back, going to heaven.

I await to hear malvisguy212 answer.

malvisguy212:
Jesus has TWO nature, fully God and fully man.

This belief is not in the scriptures, it is man made.

This nature are distinct to each other. It was not God the father that incarnate in the flesh, it was God the son.

The word "god the son cannot be found in the scripture"

During the baptism, it was God the father Voice came from heaven, when the disciple ask Jesus to teach them how to pray , Jesus say ," our father IN HEAVEN" GOD the father is in heaven, it was God the son who incarnate in Jesus is speaking .

The use of the words "god the son" and "incarnate" are words created to confuse people.

The holy spirit is God, we saw Him discern as a dove. Now, this 3 are ONE in NATURE, with the same personalities.

These statement are also not found in the scriptures.
Discerning as a dove does not mean he is God.

So in conclusion;
1: the Bible teaches that the Godhead is one in nature.

Can't be surported with the bible.

2: the Bible teaches that God the Father is one personality of the Godhead.
3: the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is one personality of the Godhead.
4: the Bible teaches that Jesus the Son is one personality of the Godhead.

No scripture to surpport these statements.

Conclusion: Therefore, God is composed of three personalities in one nature.

Another statement that does not have scripture to surpport it.

Have you ever seen a demon being cast out from a man ? Prior to his deliverance , you will notice, the victim will be speaking with a different voice, after he was heal, he will deny it, because the demon and the man are distinct from each other.

The above example is how God the son incarnate in Jesus.

So jesus is possessed by god the son.
The scripture says "the word became flesh not possessed flesh.

MrPresident1:
Jesus is God.

He is the express image of the invisible God. God is eternally invisible, Jesus Christ is His anthropomorphic representation.

Image!, representation!

paulGrundy:
I Have already answered your post, you want me to say that Jesus is not God. That is the answer you are expecting.

Funny you.

You have not.
Go back to our discussion and reply the post there.
And if you dnt want to, then explain what you understand by the words found in heb 1:9 , john 17:3 , and john 20:17 for starters

@ brocab

You don't know who God is.

Pls tell us who God is!

John 10:30 "Jesus said I and the Father are ONE.

yes jesus said he and the father are one, but he also said that same father is greater than him.

Does jesus statement mean he and the father are same person? No

Does jesus statement mean he is equal to the father? No
Did jesus say he and the father are one God? No

Look at john 17 :21
that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us,
so that the world may believe
that you have sent me.

Do you see what that verse is telling us? Jesus requested that his disciples be in them(jesus and the father) just as he, jesus is in the father and the father is in him. If they(the disciples are not eventually God or jesus or equal to them when that request is fufilled, I wonder why you say jesus is equal to the father cus he said he and the father are one.

Another translation went further and translated that verse as:
I pray that they will all be one,
just as you and I are one--as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the word {Jesus describes Himself as the word}

It was john that was making the description , the same John that recorded the statement found at john 20:17

King James Bible
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren,(john inclusive] and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Jesus has explicitly told us who is his God! And who is our God!

and the word was with God {Jesus describes Himself He was with God}

Gbam! . Jesus(first person), was with God(another person)
He was not that God as he was with that person called God.

That is why your bible could say in heb 1:9 the following

"You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your
companions by anointing you
with the oil of joy."

Note: 1. Jesus had companions.
2.jesus was anointed
3. He has a God.

and the word was God
{Jesus describes Himself He and the Father are One}

And the word was a God just as several translation shows.
The scriptures, jesus, the disciples has shown us the relationship between jesus and the God mentioned in 1b

My fruit is the word of God.
Which I don't read much in you.
This is what you JW's do, you
pick out one verse from a
scripture and you think you know it all, without reading the rest of the chapters.

You that have read all the chapters , you have not been able to bring up anything contrary to what I've been saying with scripture to support it. In fact you have refused to tell ur views about the scriptures I quoted.

And I can prove you believe God is a man, you had written it yourself, you believe Jesus and God are two different persons.

Pls do.

While at it, you can tell us ur view of the scriptures I quoted.