₦airaland Forum

brocab:
Forget about the K/J I am studying the NWT JW's bible.

and I've shown you the fruitlessness of that endeavor. you cant tell why the KJv, (the translation you approve of) use the word "jehovah" in some places and refuse to use it in others, you now want to go into the NWT. Again I'll advise you to use the NWT as a translation when studying God's word, and leave this unrealistic project of yours.

Your bible spells it out quite well without you trying to confused the scriptures, NWT>Revelation 1 said it all, You do call Jehovah God the almighty?

yes, the NWT spells it out quite clearly that only Jehovah is the almighty God!

I read the scriptures out to you, you will not see it cus you are desperate to find fault with anything Jehovah Witnesses. you will not accept or tell the world what you understand by John words recorded in rev 1:1 . I even quoted from the KJv so that you would not say I twisted the scriptures. The KJv tells you that Jesus has a God and Father!
does the scriptures say Jehovah is almighty God! yes.

Ge 17:1
When Aʹbram was 99 years old, Jehovah appeared to Aʹbram and said to him: “I am God Almighty. Walk before me and prove yourself faultless.

It seems we have many scriptures that the New World Translation has twisted around' that not even you, can understand it. I am not interested in these other scriptures you have written before me,

you can't be interested cus it calls you out as a liar and propagator of false unbiblical teachings. that's why at every opportunity you prefer to talk about mundane things rather than using the scriptures as the basis of your discussion.

I don't want our viewers to get so confused about your bible or any other bible in this matter> What your job is>you need to explain to me why does your own bible have such scriptures in the NWT if you verbally can't accept Jesus Christ is God? While your bible spells it out very clearly he is God.

I have told you several times who jesus is, the scriptures says he is a God! A mighty God!, but he is not the almighty God! as the father, our father, is his God and thus superior to him. Jesus has always remained, in heaven, on earth and back in heaven, a loyal servant of the almighty God.
Jesus is not Jehovah and Jehovah holds that position as ALMIGHTY GOD! it is this God that Jesus called the only true God, his father, our God, the one he told Satan we should worship, the one he prayed to, the one who sent him to us and anointed him as the Christ.

NWT>Isaiah 43:10-14 "You are my witness, declares Jehovah, "Yes my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and have faith in me, And understand I am the same one.
Before me no God was formed, And after me their has been none. I-I am Jehovah, and besides their is no savour. I am the one who declared and saved and made known where there was no foreign God among you, so you are my witness says Jehovah, and I am God. Also I am always the same one; and no-one can snatch anything out of my hand. When I act who can prevent it. This is what Jehovah says your Repurchaser {Which means Redeemer} the holy one of Israel.
Jesus is our Redeemer-He is I am and the Holy one of Israel, our Savour.

simply tell us, is jesus Jehovah? is jesus the same person as the father? the answers to that question will help you a lot.

King James Version
1Jo 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

read the scriptures to find understand brocad. do not read it to find fault using human wisdom.

brocab:
After studying the New World Translation,

studying the new world translation? what are you studying there? searching for mistakes?

you that can't tell why the king James Bible use the name of God in some verses and refused to use it where it occurs in other verses now want to study the new world translation. I'll advise you abandon that mission and use the NWT to study the word of God.

I can see, That not even the Jehovah Witnesses know their own bible. They say verbally they believe in God as a separate person from Jesus-but yet they write in their bible He is God.

you have failed to tell us if jesus and Jehovah are the same person, you are now trying to say their view is wrong.

Lets start with Revelation 1:7-8, 17-18 "Look I am coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, Verse 8 " I am the Alpha and the Omega, says Jehovah God, the one who is, and who was, and is coming the Almighty. Verse 17 "And I fell dead at His feet, And He laid His right hand on me, and said do not be afraid, I am the first and the last, and the living one, and I became dead, but look I am living forever and ever, And I have the keys of death and of the grave.
So which is it' this is written in the New World Translation, do you believe Christ is the Almighty or isn't He the Almighty?

Lets start from verse one which busts your argument right from the start.

rev 1: 1
New World Translation
A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John,

King James Version
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John

did you read the verse above? did you read the underlined that says God gave the Revelation to jesus ? This statement would not have been possible if God (in these verse) and jesus are the same person.

let's continue with verse 2
who bore witness to the word God gave and to the witness Jesus Christ gave, yes, to all the things he saw.

King James Version
Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

can you see here again that the writer seperated jesus from God!

now let's read from verse 4-6 before we now go into the verse 7 and 8 you mentioned

rev 1:4-6
New World Translation
John to the seven congregations that are in the province of Asia: May you have undeserved kindness and peace from “the One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne,
5[u]and from Jesus Christ,[/u] “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.” To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood.
6and he made us to be a kingdom, [u]priests to his God and Father—[/u]yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen

King James Version
4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

brocab, did you read these scriptures? do you understand what it tells you?
did you read in verse 4 and 5 that John was telling us about two persons, one who sits on the throne and the one he used to save us?

did you read in verse 6 that the one who washed our sins with his own blood(which me and you know as jesus) HAS A GOD AND FATHER!

If you had not noticed what these scriptures is telling you, pls go back and read it, and if you still do not see it and acknowledge it! everyone would know who you are as someone whose aim is to destroy and not to build even when the truth and materials to build is right in front of him.

You have left the glaring introduction done by John in verse 1 to 6 so that you can attempt to find fault with verse 7 and 8.

JEHOVAH IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD, THE TRUE GOD, THE SUPREME ONE, THE GOD AND FATHER OF JESUS CHRIST. JEHOVAH IS OUR GOD.!

Revelation 22:7 "Look I am coming quickly.
Verse 12-13 " Look I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with Me, to repay each one according to his works, I am the Al'pha and O.me'ga the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
And of course Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
Verse 20 "the one who bears witness of these things says, "Yes I am, coming quickly, Amen come Lord Jesus.
Revelation 22:5-6 "And the one seated on the throne said "look! I am making all things new, "Write for these words are faithful, and true, And He said to me they have come to pass! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the End.

will tell you the truth and more on these if you can tell us if jesus is the same person as Jehovah!

jesus still has a God and Father when he went back to heaven

gbadexy:
Whatever rocks your boat sire.
God was apprehensive the people building the babel tower were going to reach heaven and He caused confusion amongst them by causing them to speak in different languages.
It's a fact in the bible.

I can understand your wrong understanding of events recorded in the bible. what one seeks, one shall find. and you have the right to read falsehood into what the scriptures said.

So I wonder where you got the lie from.

got it from ur post and bolded it for you to see. You made two false accusations against the scriptures in attempt to help the op.

You scared people would read and be objective and mischievously tried to cast aspersions on my credibility.

If I'm scared I would not have espoused the false statement and bolded it. Your credibility is not challenged, you might have been mis informed, the statemen is a lie, 5 out might have believed it cus you dnt know otherwise.

Galileo had to run for his life from being burn at stake for heresy for saying the earth was spherical.

yes galileo had to run, but not from the bible, but from people who wrongly claim to know the scriptures.

I do read you know. I just don't dish out fables to justify my position.

Then it should be easy to present facts. to show us where the scriptures said the earth was flat

gbadexy:
Brother, don't be downcast. It's dangerous trying to relate what's in the Quran with new scientific discoveries.
Science is still evolving and even though I have some reservations too about things like where the sun sets and the sun and moon not over passing their course, I have to admit that the true context of the verse may not be fully understood with the present knowledge available.
These are things to note: while the bible believe the world is flat and the heaven is just above the clouds as depicted in the towel of babel story, the Quran is way advanced in astronomy.
Definitely, with the limited knowledge of science over 1400 years ago, stating that the sun and moon have a definite path is impressive.
Also, stating that all affairs of the world rises to God daily in a distance of a thousand human years is another clear sign. In fact the one that made me take Islam serious. It was obviously talking about the speed of light. A concept not known till about a few century ago.
And the messages were carried to heaven by angels , and guess what angels are made from according to Islam? Light.
The guy quoting you is just downloading what he feels he understand about the gravitational wave from the Internet and interprets it the way he understands it.
One sure thing is that the earth, moon and sun all rotate even within their orbit and it's not just in a straight smooth path, but in a pattern that feels like a floating object on ocean water in a wavy pattern.
The book definitely speaks about things that is only being understood by man and while the eclipse may seem to discredit the assertion that the day and night don't meet, the sun definitely rotates in its own orbit and the earth rotate within the sun's orbit and the moon within earth's orbit and they are fixed in their path for eternity.
What constitutes day and true night is a subject for another day and with more research, science may still give new insight to it. Even with eclipse, there is only total eclipse for some minutes at best over some few areas and the day time as we know it in every location can never become night and night time become day. That would mean the earth rotates backwards.
In any way, the true meaning may also be lost on interpretation as only the closest possible English translation is used and does not give the exact meaning as it's stated in the beginning of the English version of the Quran.

lying will not help you or exonerate the op from his shameless attempt at finding similarities between science and the Korra. neither will the attempt to draw the bible into the discussion change peoples view on the op's blunder.

Op, those infidels where who? Isrealites who where under the covenant.
The area where the law was practiced was where? In the land the isrealites controlled.

Now are you trying to find similarities between the treatment of infidels in the koran and the bible?
Or are you trying tp claim that the bible says we must kill infidels just like the koran does?

Moreover, I thought muslms claim that the God that gave moses the law was Allah, why are you now saying yaweh!?

Remuneration? Is that not another word that involves money! ?

@ analice107

Continuation

There's just one hellfire.
Where fire burns unquenchably.
Some people who read only
King James Bible, have a
problem knowing the
difference, the types or terms
used in the Bible as hell.

I'm not asking about hell, I'm talking about hellfire!. Is hell and hellfire the same thing?, absolutely not, therefore, use scriptures to tell us what hellfire is and include the original greek and hebrew word for hellfire!

There are basically three types or terms used to
describe hell.

You are wrong, those terms do not describe hell, but hell is sometimes taken as the english translation of those terms.

1. Hell= original term=Sheol=
A literal grave= A six feet
accommodation where every
man, rich or poor will end up.
This is on earth here, in this
material realm. This has
nothing to do with afterlife.
Ezekiel 32:27-29. Acts
2:25-31. So many scriptures
let's stick with this pls. This is
were our bodies turns to 'sand
sand', according to you.

"Sheol" is a hebrew word that is sometimes translated as hell, grave or pit. So pls note, whichever way a translation translate the word "sheol", it is still talking about the original hebrew word "sheol". I will put a "** "sign when quoting the scriptures in which the original word is "sheol". Pls also take note of the underlined.

Now let's see what happens in sheol, who goes there and what goes there using the scriptures as guide.

Eccl 9:4-6,10
Anyone who is among the living has hope —even a
live dog is better off than a
dead lion!
For the living know that
they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward,[u] and even their name is forgotten.
Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they
have a part in anything that
happens under the sun.

10 Whatever your hand finds
to do, do it with all your might,
for in the **realm of the dead,
[u]where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom

Ps 6:5
For in death there is no
remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise?

Ill advise you read job chapter 14, but ill just pick some verses from it.
10 But a man dies and fades away; he breathes his last — where is he?
11 As water disappears from the  sea and a river becomes parched and dry,
12 so man lies down never to 
rise again. They will not wake up until the heavens are no more; they will not stir from their sleep.
13 If only You would hide me in •Sheol and conceal me until Your anger passes.
If only You would appoint a time for me and then remember me.

Ps 16:10
[b]because you will not abandon me to the **realm of the dead, nor will you let your faithful one see decay.
Note: some translations use "soul" instead of "me" in that verse.


"Regarding the word “Sheol,”
Brynmor F. Price and Eugene
A. Nida noted: “The word occurs often in the Psalms and in the book of Job to refer to the place to which all dead people go. It is represented as a dark place, in which there is no activity worthy of the name. There are no moral distinctions there ............In a sense, ‘the grave’ in a generic sense is a near equivalent, except that Sheol is more a mass grave in which all the dead dwell together. . . .
A Translators Handbook on the Book of Jonah, 1978, p. 37.

So what have we learnt from the scriptures quoted so far?
1. That all humans, both good and bad, go to sheol
2. That all humans decay in sheol.
3. That humans are souls which decay when they die.
4. That the experience of one in sheol as recorded by the scriptures does not correspond with man made theories about hellfire.
5. That the spirit which you claim is the man , does not go to sheol.
6 you, me, the op, die, when we die, we decay.
7. The soul does not think, experience anything!, know anything in sheol!
8. That what goes to sheol is the soul, which in the previous post i have explained it to be the man himself!
9 man is not conscious when he is in sheol.

All the above supports my view that when "you" die "you"(the same way the scriptures use the word ) turn to dust(sand-sand) cus that's what we are!

2. Hell=Hades. (i)It's a spirit realm. (II)This is a location where the Souls of the dead are kept till judgement . A kind of society, an abode of the dead.
Call it a house if u like.
(III)And there are two levels of
hades.
The higher level (Abraham is
here) and the lower level Adolf
Hitler and Osamabinladin are
here)
We see this in Lk 16:19-31.
(IV)Everybody goes to hades to await judgement. Everyone,
good or bad.
Father Abraham is in this
realm. Lizarus is in this realm,
in the level where there's no
torment.
This is where Christ
decended to, (v)it was here
some of the saints resurrected
with him, when he
resurrected.
But there's a part where
there's torment. The part
where Adolf Hitler, Prophet
Muhammed, Osamabinladin
are waiting the real
judgement.
In the part where Abraham
and the dead Saints are,
there's no fire or heat, but the
part where Muhammed and
his likes are, there's fire and
heat. Read Lk 16:24.
And no one can cross from
one to the other.

Ill take your points(numbered I-V) when I've used the scriptures to explain hades to you.

Hades is the common
transliteration into English of the corresponding Greek word haiʹdes. It perhaps means “the
unseen place.” In all, the word
“Hades” occurs ten times in the earliest manuscripts of the
Christian Greek Scriptures.

The Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures (from Genesis to Malachi) uses the word “Hades” 73 times, employing it 60 times to translate the Hebrew word sheʼohlʹ,
commonly rendered “Sheol.”
Luke, the divinely inspired writer of Acts, definitely showed Hades to be the Greek equivalent of Sheol when he translated Peter’s quotation from .(read act 2:27 and compare it with ps 16:10 )
Inversely, nine modern Hebrew translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures use the word “Sheol” to translate Hades in revelation ;
and the Syriac translation uses
the related word Shiul.

This automatically shows us that sheol and hades mean the same thing despite being in different languages.

Another supporting evidence are found in your own words which is found in (II) and and (IV) above that souls go to hades.
If the scriptures shows that souls go to hades and sheol, it means sheol and hades are the same thing!
This I want you to consider when claiming that man/soul is conscious in hell.
Your post is now contradicting itself when you claim man is a spirit, but soul burns in hell, does the spirit goes to hell? No! The scriptures never said so.!

Now let's go the points you raised.
(I)there is no scripture that indicates that hell is a spirit realm, an abode of spirits or that spirits go to hell. If there is pls show us.

(II) the soul goes to hades(greek), the soul goes to sheol(hebrew). This Indicates that both mean the same thing.
The scriptures is abundantly explicit and self explanatory when it tells us what happens to the "soul" in sheol. Your explanation of what happens to the soul in hades contradicts the scriptures view of what happens to the soul in sheol! This I will like you to examine and comment on.

(III)using Luke 16:19-31 as a parameter, the verses never said lazarus went to hades or that hades has two levels.
(IV) everbody goes to hades, everybody goes to sheol. The scriptures indicate that there is no praising jehovah in sheol. Your explanation indicates otherwise. Its either the hebrew scripture writers are lying or you have a wrong understanding of the parable of the rich man and lazarus.

(v) some of the saints resurrected with jesus when he was resurrected ? Where did you get this from. Cus from the scriptures I read, the saints that where resurrected where resurrected when jesus died and not when he was resurrected.
Peter also indicated that David was not among those resurrected as he was still in hades. Abraham also was not resurrected among the saints as this would have created a commotion that even the pharises or the romans would not have been able to hide or control.
Another point to consider is that this people where resurrected back to earth with flesh and blood and entered Jerusalem.

in the account of “the rich man” and “Lazarus.” The language throughout the account is plainly parabolic and cannot be construed literally(like you are doing) in view of all the preceding texts and explanations I have given Note, however, that “the rich man” of the parable is spoken of as being “buried” in Hades, giving further evidence that Hades means the common grave of mankind, same as sheol.

To be continued in next post

@ analice107

Sir, when I responded to you, I knew exactly what I was doing.

But I dnt know, hence I needed to understand if you are trying to bring a new topic in to the thread. The verses you brought up and my reply to the op are not directly related.

I know you, I have
been following you here. I
know you are a JW so do not
believe in the afterlife, hence
your response of man turning
to 'sand sand' when he dies

If you had been following me, you would have known that I believe in life after death.
You would have also noticed that i make comments based on my views and I ask questions so that everyone can have a better understanding of what's being discussed.

When you say, 'particular set of people, do you mean those who reject Christ in this life?
Or what do you mean?

No, the weed and the wheat are a class of people who lived in a particular period of time.
Noticed that the parable says the weed where sowed among the good seed. Therefore I dnt think they(the weed) rejected Christ, but where sown to cause confusion and change the teachings of Christ.

because, what christ teaches here, applies to all who rejects Christ, Everyone. This will be their fate after judgement.

You are right, it applies to those who reject Christ , but the parable was not talking about "all" who rejected Christ, and it was not talking about those who dnt know Christ.
Remember I said that the verses you quoted is specific as to a time period,(in the future) and it never mentioned death directly.
The issue we are having is what that fate is and when it will be applied.

I posted this verses because they explain to us, that I time will come, that The Weat and the Tares shall be separated, and the fate that awaits the Tares.

You can see now that it does not go along with the question asked by the op.
The op is best answered by what happened to those that died in the past, and not what will happen to those that are alive in the future.

Let's talk about what happens to the soul of a man when he dies. And I know as a JW, you don't believe in the immortal soul of a man. You don't believe that a man is primarily a spirit, having a soul(which doesn't die) and lives in a material body.

Ok good, this is the topic we will stick to.

I do not believe that man has an immortal soul cus the scriptures did not tell us so. In fact the scriptures says that a soul that sins will die!.
Immortal soul teaching is a derived analogy from those who want to believe that something happens to man immediately after he dies.

I do not believe that man is a spirit living in a material body. The scriptures was specific as to what man is when he was created, it said man was "created from the dust", not that "man came into the created dust". On several occassions God called man "flesh"!, and when passing judgement to adam, he told him what he is, God said : " from dust you are, and to dust you will return ". God also specifically said : it is from the ground you where taking.!
There are several other verses I quoted in my post to you that supports this.
*we will come back to this with scriptural facts later on when we look at what the spirit in man really is.

I do not believe that man has a soul, but I believe that man is a soul!
Will address this when we look at what "soul" is .

The Spirit of a lost man is dead (second death).
The Soul of a man is his
consciousness, everything
you do or did is in your
consciousness, thus, this is
the component of a man
which will stand judgement
before God.
When a man recieves Christ,
his spirit recieves life and
comes back alive. We
worship God using this spirit,
without it, you can't access
God, because he is Spirit.
The body is this material
component which enables us
exist here in this realm. This is
the component which will turn
to dust. So if your "sand sand"
anology applies to this, then
you are right. But that is not
what the Op is asking.

You can see that you did not answer the question : what goes into the furnace, the soul, spirit or body, 2 of the three or the whole 3?.(that if you believe the soul is a seperate
component of man)

The answer to these question is vital in our discussion as it will tell us what man really is. Remember, you have said man is primarily a spirit, and its man that gets thrown into the furnace.

You have also said that the soul of a man is his consciuosness. This I find very interesting.
Science , common sense and observation has been able to show us what the body does for us. For example, it has been proven that the brain determines how we think and what we think about, it processes information from other organs of the body and gives orders as to how the body reacts, what we say and what we do.
Ill give a few examples.
1. A mad man is mad cus he does or behaves in a way different from the way we see as normal. Can some of this mad men be cured?, Yes. How, by giving them drugs, putting them in an environment and setting tasks for them.
Does this drug work on a seperate thing in the human body called consciousness or soul? No, it works on the body(which the brain is part of).
Can the environment achieve anything in the cure of these mad man if he can't see it with his eyes(part of the body), feel it with his skin(part of the body), hear it with his ears or taste it with his tongue.? No.

Therefore, your consciouness is you(the man), and you are your body.
One can be turned into a mad man with the right dose of drugs administered to the body.

2. Another example is what happens to man when parts of his body is damaged or removed.
When a mans body parts are being removed and moved to another place, his consciousness stays wherever his brain is! Remove the eyes and take it somewhere else, that person will only be conscious, not where the eyes is, but at where the brain is.
Hence the brain, which is part of our body is our consciousness . Therefore our body, being alive is the soul!

damage the brain and you will lose consciousness.
You know what pain caused by damage to your body can do to you, it can make you faint, but will you faint if the transmmittion of the pain to your brain is being cut off by drugs? No.

3 the third example is based on emotion and knowlege.
All the things you have learnt comes from physical experience by your body. And all the knowlege you have is as a result of your brains ability to analyse them. The brains capacity is different from one individual to another, hence we have different talents and abilities.
I can arguerably say that you know nothing about jesus or afterlife until you read about it. but this is not always the case for everybody , cus I believe that certain knowledge or actions can be gained or taken through a more superior force activating our body., for example, the holy spirit.

In conclusion, I can say that our consciouness is not a separate entity from our body called the soul, but its our body or the results of the functions or actions of our body. So we are living souls (like the scriptures rightly tell us) cus we are animated flesh!, and not that we have souls in our body.
The scritures say that soul eats, sleep, get pieced and dies!

Yes, we will address the
furnace.

after you have told us which of the three goes there.

Am sorry if you feel judged.
But I don't have patience for
anyone who may lead an
innocent astray.

Still the same, you should have waited for my reply to know if I've lead anyone astray.
Apology accepted.

Excuse me sir. The question the OP asked is not a simple question. It may seem a
simple question to you because you are of the
opinion that a man has no
immortals soul, so will be
judged condemned and be
anihiliated after judgement,
that's not true sir. The
teaching that everything ends
after judgement is a lie sir.
And it's satanic, to out people
at rest in their sin. Let's eat
and drink, after wen die it
ends there. The fire that will
burn is liken to Moses' burning
Bush. Burning, but not
consuming. because it the fire
consumes, there won't be
need for it to burn eternally,
day and night.

One does not carry too much emotions into answering some of these questions, yes the issue is not simple, but the question was. If you have different answer to mine, you would have just simply told him that this and this is what happens to people when they die. The scripture you quoted would have only created another argument devoid of the issue or question asked by the op. Remember, the op asked what will happen to him as an atheist when he dies!,I or the op never die yet!

Moreover, some of the things you claim to be lies above where never said or implied by me.

You may not have quoted any scripture, but your statement speaks volumes.

Yes it does, but condemnations comes after judgement and not before, and you have not giving me a fair hearing. You have dasukied me.

You maybe wrong on that.

I hope so.

But you implied them.

No, you are thinking I implied them.

When you hinder the growth of the wheat, you fall into that class. It doesnt matter who you are.

Good, you are right, the question is, have I hindered the growth of the wheath(this question is dependent on who the wheat is!
Notwithstanding, you do not have the ability to determine who will be in the weed class eventually.

No, as a matter of fact, God wants us to worship him in a place of strength and
boldness. Not of fear and
timidity. But that does not
mean for us to loose sight of
the fact that, anyone who
refuses the new life in Christ
remains dead spiritually so
can't access heaven.
I don't worship God for fear of
hell, I worship God out of love.
I don't know about others.

So do not be concerned with those that serve God cus of fear of hell. i will not lead them astray if I tell them there is no hellfire cus they are still astray for worshiping God for fear of hellfire? So you are wrong if you condemn me based on the result of my teaching rather than on the truth of my teachings.

Christ didn't die for us to be good. He died to give us a new life in our spirit. The
second death which man died
in Eden, is what christ came to
restore. Anyone who accepts
it, regains what he lost in
Adam. It's what it's called
redemption. Buying back what
was lost.

You can see that I did not mention What Christ did or the importance of what Christ did,
To accept or gain from what Christ did, you have to do what Christ commands, which entails doing good.! Now the issue is if you do good out of fear or love.

What christ means here is that, you may think you are
worshiping him, but in
essence you are doing it your
own way. There's an
acceptable way of serving
God.
Heb. 12:28. and He demands
worshiping him in spirit and I
truth. And the Apostles came
to Jesus and said, 'while in the
field, we met some who were
performing miracles in your
name, but they are not
amongst us'. What about the
ones who were preaching the
gospel with malicious intents
to bring more trouble for
Apostle Paul? We can serve
God in anger, complaining
and murmuring, when we shd
do it in joy and rejoicing.
So you can serve him
unacceptably. If this is your
case, on that day, you'll shout,
'Lord, Lord' , and he will say
depart, I know you not.

Now tell us, what is the outcome of those who worship God, but their heart is not their.
Though you are right, but its much more than that. As you can see, I mentioned three cases of those who think they serve God and not just the one you responded to. Your heart condition plays a vital role in your salvation, as emphasized by what happened to saul, the issue of the pharisses and jesus statement.

Do you know how many years I have been without a man touching my skin? Do you
know how hard that is, haven
known how it felt like? Not as
though, the day you decide to
live this kind of life, the urge
disappears, not as though, I
put I sign o my face which
says 'all men keep off'.
Do you know the humiliation I
recieve from folk who don't
understand why, whatever
they do, I will still have to greet
them, On one occasion a lady
practically was going to slap
my face because I won't stop
greeting her, after she who
hurt me, stopped me from
greeting her?
Do you know how hard it is to
forgive someone who hates
you, and is not shy to let you
know? Someone who in broad
day light let's you know, am
responsible for you troubles.
Yet you have to forgives and
pray for their eyes to be
opened. Pray for God to save
them?
This is the life of a Christian
who thrives to live up to
Christ's standards.

I do not have the answers to these questions o.
Yes, it is hard when one is persecuted, it is hard when one is undergoing the temptations of the flesh, but one should focus on ones goal and not on if God will purnish those who persecuted or kill us. I have a goal of enjoying life evalasting and wunt mind if a person who has been persecuting me before(to the point of killing me)shares such enjoyment with me.

Sweetheart, I can decide to live as I like, if I don't have any price in sight. What will be the case of someone who can do, anything, I mean anything to anybody, because he feels not accountable to God?

Yes, you can, but compare that short live to evalasting life.
Someone who feels he can do anything or does anything wrong to anybody will not gain
Evalasting life, that's good enough punishment for me.

Yes, He is the God of Justice, that's why he won't let the wicked go on punished. Adolf Hitler, Prophet Muhammed, Charles Tass Russell, Joseph Smith, Osamabinladin, Isis, boko haram. The wicked
popes, and the petty wicked
people, won't escape God's
judgement. If not, there's no
need for me not to do what
they did and are doing.

Leave the judging to God! Let God do the judging and do not condemn someone based to what you have heard.
The wicked will not go unpurnished , but like you said, they will be purnished according to their deeds. The issue should have been how they will be purnished, though we wunt discourse that untill we know what happens to man at death.!

Will continue in my next post, but when you reply this part, pls tell us what burns in hellfire, the spirit, soul or body.? Add scritures to show us what goes there.

analice107:
I have seen it, and I shall reply, given the time.
The above is my responds to you. I dont know how to break the text up.

Ill try to break it down, put your words in quotes and reply accordingly.

brocab:
Then all you have got to do is prove they are not lies. Simple?

Prove What are now lies!?

@ brocad
You will always continue to change the topic when I've replied you with the truth.
You've left the topic of who jesus is and now shifted to another one.

What? Your not even Christian and you want to talk to me about God?

I've posted several scriptures of statements made by jesus, the disciples and the only true God, our father, jehovah. You have said nothing about those scriptures only to repeatedly keep claiming that you have the spirit of God in you and you are a Christian. Continu!

James 2:19 "You believe that there is one God, "GOOD" even the demons believe.

And who did jesus call that God? The father, the only true God.
Peter told us we have one God, who is the father?
We call him jehovah.

Meaning to the word "DWELL" Reside, live, having one's home-residence be settled be Housed-Lodge, Stay informal hang out. God is Spirit, He don't live in houses {Temples} made of brick and mortar made with human hands.
1 Corinthians 3:16 "Don't you
know that you are the TEMPLE
OF GOD and the Spirit of God
Dwells in you.
{ Meaning-He don't live outside
the body, He lives in the body}
Have you not heard we have
the mind of Christ.
1 Corinthians 2:16 "But we
understand these things
because we have the mind of
Christ. No-one can know the
things of God but the Holy
Spirit, Who is one with the
Father and the Son.
Next time lay down your
argument with God.

The scriptures have told us where our God dwells, jesus told us where our God is, that the holy spirit dwells in man does not mean the father, the only true God does the same.!
Or is the father the holy spirit?

SirWere:
Dude, sand is a mixture. It's component differ from places, and region. That's what cause red, white, and brown sand.

However, sand is mainly made up of Silicon di-oxide (SiO2) or fused silicate. The only type of soil with a trace of carbon in it is Beach sands, and that is due to the presence of Calcium Carbonate.

So I dunno where you find your theory that carbon is an element of sand.
Go and utter false statement no more.

1. My use of the word "sand- sand" is not in reference to sand as defined by science.
"Sand- sand" to me are materials found on the earth, either as an element, a mixture or a compound.
2. I did not say sand is not a mixture
3. I did not say all sands have the same component.
4. You are the expert and you just said :"The only type of soil with a trace of carbon in it is Beach sands".

I did not say all sands have carbon in it, so pls understand where my layman speech is coming from before you accuse someone of uttering false statements.

My use of the word "sand" is not scientific, but in reference to the components found on the earth and are in humans too.

@ analice107
My statement" when you die, you turn to dust is based on the following

1. Scriptures
The scriptures, when talking about how man (the first man) came to be stated thus:

Gen 2:7
Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the
ground and breathed into his
nostrils the breath of life, and
the man became a living
*being.
* note: some translations say, "soul", "creature" or person

This statement was recomfirmed thousands of years later.
1 cor 15:47
The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I've learned from those verses.
1. Man(adam) came from dust(Sand) or materials found on the earth.
2. That "adam was formed from the dust", not that adam came into the dust that was formed.!
3. That it was the effect of the spirit put into adam that enabled adam to become a living person/soul/human.

Now that this is understood, the scriptures tell us what happens when Adam dies or died.
After adam had sinned, and told he will die, this is what the one who created him(man/adam) said:

Gen 3:19
By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.

These statements where re-echored thousands of years later .

Eccl 12:7
and the dust returns to the
ground it came from, and the
spirit returns to God who gave
it.



What have I learned from these verses:
1. Adam returns or turns to dust when he dies.
2. Adam came from or was taken from dust.
3. Death is as a result of the spirit not activating the body again cus it has gone out of the body.
4. When that spirit does not activate the body, that person is classified as dead and begins to turn to dust!.


With this understanding, I believe I'm right to say that when man dies, he turns to sand sand.

If you dnt believe that man turns to sand(dust), then you dnt believe the scriptures recorded.
And if you want to tell me that man is soul or spirit inhabiting the body, you have to explain why the scriptures did not call the spirit man, but called man the flesh that returns to dust.
You will also have to explain what the spirit and soul are and how we can identify them. Also explain what happens to each of them when man dies and where it goes.

Are there other Scriptures to support my views? Yes .
Eccl 3:20
All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return.

2. Physical evidence

If one goes to the cementary, or to the grave of someone who had died a long time ago, what one sees there is dust/sand.

3. Scientific evidence
Scientist have stated that humans are made up of water and materials found on the earth. This is in line with the scriptures which says God formed man from the "earth".

I await your reply and your views of the scriptures I quoted.

analice107:
Mr Dolphinheart.
If when we die we turn to sand sand, please explain what Christ means here;
Matt. 13:37-42. (remember, He is explaining the parables).
37 And He (Christ) answered and said unto them, he that sowed good seed is the son of man;
38. The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one.
39. The enemy that sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of this world.
40. As therefore the tares are gathered and burnt in the fire; So also shall it be the end of this world.
41. The son of man shall send forth his Angels and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend and them which do iniquity
42. AND SHALL CAST THEM INTO A FURNANCE OF FIRE: THERE SHALL BE WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

As much as ill like to attend to your request, there are some few things that must be clarified. The op's question and my reply to him is based on what happens to man when he dies. the verses you quoted talks about what happens to a particular class of humans at a particular period in time.
Humans have been dying for thousands of years, the op wants to know their condition when they die!. The verses you quoted is specific as to a time period,(in the future) and it never mentioned death directly.

So unless you are trying to change the topic(which I probably might not join you in doing), I dnt see why you posted those verses.
Man turning to sand sand does not go against the scriptures or those verses.
So pls tell if its (a)the verses you want to discuss or (b)what happens to man when he dies!.

Dolphin heart, I need you to explain especially verse 42 to me. Is there another interpretation of furnace of fire? Do sand wail? Does sand gnash it's teeth?

Sand wail and can gnash its teeth when its animated(made alive).
The furnace of fire signifies destruction.
These brings about the question: what goes into the furnace, the soul, spirit or body, 2 of the three or the whole 3?.(that if you believe the soul is a seperate component of man)
Would expect you to adress that if we are ever going to discuss the furnace.

Dolphin heart, you are preaching another gospel.

Haba! So you have already judged me before I can explain!!
That's unchristianlike!

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you onto the grace of Christ unto another Gospel. 7... but there be some that trouble the people and will pervert the gospel of Christ.

We shall soon know those who the verses are reffering to, even though it has no correlation with what's being discussed. Simple questions asked and simple statements made should not be turned into an avenue to judge, condemn or negatively classify others.

You are perverting the gospel of Christ, teaching men to continue in their sins, after all, at the end they will die and turn to dust, no recompense, no accountability. No questions asked. Nothing. Just turn to sand sand.
The above scriptures are Christ's words.

1. I did not or have not till now quoted any gospel,so which gospel I'm I pervetting. You should have waited for me to use the scriptures to explain myself before jumping into conclusions.
2. With your statements above you have shown me that no matter the explanations I give, you already have an opinnion of me.
3. You are adding things I never said.

Come to think of it, are you sure you are not a tare? Being in the midst of the fold but doing contrary to what is originally intended. You are deceiving people to endure in their sins,
My brother in humanity. The message that God is too loving and merciful to send people to hellfire, is the message of the devil to keep men in their sins.

Thank God that being In the weed class is not for you or any human to determine.
Now what was originally intended,? that a question for later. After its answered, we will know who is not doing accordingly but claims to be in the fold.

Look at what you said, do you really think that God accepts worship from those who claim to worship him cus they are afraid of your hellfire?

If someone does good in his actions or claims to do good because he is afraid or does not want to burn, that person will end up the same way a person who does not believe in hellfire will end.

So even if its Satan that is deceiving that there is no hellfire, the result of accepting or not accepting is still the same if your heart is not in the right place. Take a cue from Saul and the pharisses and jesus statement about those who shout lord lord! . Its the heart condition that jesus looks at and not only ur actions(even though your actions goes a long way in telling about ur heart and your faith).
This is why I think its more profitable for those who dnt believe in hellfire, but strive daily to live by Gods standard,
Cus the purnishment of the wicked is not the reason why they serve God.

God is indeed a merciful God, and at the same time a consuming fire. Heb. 12:29, Deut 4: 24. You do anyhow, you see anyhow.
Beside, whether or not man ends in hellfire is totally a chioice which depends solely on the man to make.

You did not add one chief quality or attribute of God, God is a God of justice!.
Now what is hellfire? Is it a place man can go to when he dies? Can you support this with the scripture. Please also add the hebrew and greek words of "hellfire" in your reply so everyone on the thread can do personal investigation.

God sends no man to hell

The statement above is contrary to what the scriptures said, contrary to what the op asked and contrary to what I said initially.

According to the scriptures, every human, when he or she dies from the time of adam till now, goes to hell!(I can go into detail of what hell is later). But note, the word "hell" has been mistranslated by many translators, clarification is needed.

Hell fire was not made for man, man is choosing that for himself. No matter how hard they shout and scream God's wickedness, won't change a thing. You can't eat your cake and have it.

What is hell fire? Cus most translations I've read dnt have the sentence in them.
If its not made for man, who is it made for, spirits?.
Following your beliefs, that going to hellfire is dependent on the man does not mean its not made for man!

If Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, OsamaBinLadin, Prophet Muhammed, the Isis, the Popes who slaughtered men because of the gospel of Christ, Emperor Nero, the Boko Harams, and all these other evil people, just die and turn to "sand sand" as you said it, then God is not a God of Justice. And because He is a God of Justice, He will reward us according what we did.

I like your words, "he will reward us according to what we did!"
You go fight God if you see Stalin or hitler in Gods kingdom, leave the judging to God!. If you where the person that that thief beside jesus robbed or probably killed, you will be insisting that the man is in hellfire if you did not hear jesus response to him. God does not see things in the limited way you see them.
Even humans, who have some sense of justice, dnt give same purnishment for every law broken.

Wake up and smell the Pheromones. Whatsoever a man sowed, that he shall reap. He that sowed to the flesh, shall reap corruption, and he that sowed to the spirit shall reap eternal life.
And we shall give account of how we lived our lives in the flesh here on earth. 1Tim.1:17. So if you think you can live your life as you like and die and turn to sand sand, you are deceiving yourself.

1 ti 1:17
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Maybe you quoted the wrong scripture , but the verse I quoted above did not talk about what happens to us when we die.

My next post will be to you , to explain what I meant about sand sand using the scriptures. Then you can decide to condemn me after that.

SirWere:
We are made up of Carbon. Sand, dust, is made up of silicon.

All na sand-sand!.
Carbon, silicon are just part of the elements that make up the material called sand. They might be majority, but definitely not the only element.

HardMirror:
Thanks sir.
So you are of the opinion that is all,... The end,... No life after or reincarnation

I did not say that o! . I believe there is a possibility of the reactivation of life after death. The posibility is dependent on who gives the life.

@ mighty sparrow 1. Who are the spirits that jesus went to preach to? 2. Do spirits go to hell(support ur answer with scripture)? 3. What was the purpose of the preaching, to save those who where in hell?

@ mighty sparrow 1. Who are the spirits that jesus went to preach to? 2. Do spirits go to hell(support ur answer with scripture)? 3. What was the purpose of the preaching, to save those who where in hell?

HardMirror:
I am an atheist, when I die, what will hapen to me and how do you know.
All contributions are welcomed.

An atheist is also a human, with flesh and blood. When you die, you turn to dust.!(sand- sand )

@ brocab

Is this the only way you would describe who Jesus is? Not even in your own words you couldn't tell me how much
Jesus means to you?

You did not ask about how much jesus mean to me!

You only asked to tell you who I think jesus is, not about how I feel, but who I know jesus as.
I have told you who jesus is and you can't say I'm wrong, cus I used the scriptures and not man made ideaology.
You have not been able to reply the scriptures I posted on who jesus is you are now trying to shift it again to how I feel about jesus.
You can only know what jesus meant to me only when you know who jesus is.

Are you sure this is your only way you can describe someone you love so dearly?

Again I tell you, you did not ask me to describe my feelings as regards jesus Christ.
We have been discussing who jesus is on these thread for a while till you shifted the topic, this I responded to.

Look at your question again, you added a scripture, was peter response in that verse about his feelings or who he thinks jesus is!?. Why then are you now coming up with this new twist, another attempt not to respond to the scriptures posted there!?

Did I ask you not to pass on any scriptures, describe Jesus from your heart, not the heart of
someone else.

Quit the lies brocad, the bolded are not part of your initial request.

Passing Peters
description did not come from
Peter.
So your description is not your
own-and because I am
expecting you to give
something different from that of Peter or the scriptures is not
possible.

My view of who jesus is similar or same as that of peter, you can't force me to have a different view of jesus than that of peter. It does not mean I'm copying peters view or scriptural view, but it points to you that my views and understanding and beliefs and even feelings are shaped by the word of God. All those with that same view about the scriptures as s guide will have the same view about who jesus is.[/quote]Nothing is impossible
to God.[/quote]I'm not God!

1 Corinthians 3:16 "Don't you know, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you.
Then this proves the Spirit of
God does not live inside you.

You are expecting me to say something different from what peter said and you are still saying I dnt have spirit of God in me? Stop confusing urself Bro.
If someone says he has the spirit of God in him, is he not expected to say things in line with what peter said about jesus?

Did peter call jesus almighty God? No, he called him the "mesiah, son of the living God!."

I do not brag or talk about my feelings for jesus, I express it as he commanded, I try my best to follow his commands and teachings even though I falter atimes. If you think there is one of jesus commands/directive that I dnt follow, say it out in your next post.
who do I love with my whole everything ?read the scriptures below

John 14:23
King James Bible
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we
will come unto him, and make
our abode with him.

Matt 22:37-39
Kjv
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great
commandment. 39 And the
second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Who did jesus call that God that we should love.
John 17:1-3
Kjv
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that
they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Note:
Again no response to the scriptures.
1 john 5:14,
john 3:16-18,
rom 1:3
job 1:6,
john 3:16,
Matt 3:17,
Luke 9:35,
Matt 16:16,
Heb 1:9,

And as always, you have shifted from mentioning hitler and war after I've replied you.

@ brocad

Luke 9:20 "Jesus asked who do you say I am?
Have you forgotten this is the
question I had asked you to
explained in your own words,
who do you say Jesus is to you.
Not scriptural, don't give Peter's description, nor anybodies else's, Just give your description?
It's a simple question. Give it
your best shot? Cult or Church, who is Jesus to you?

I answered your question on 30 Jan by 11:10 am on these thread. In case you refused to read it, I will post it here again.

"Ill be glad to answer your
question above. But you might
not like it cus my view on who
Jesus is similar or same to that
of peters description. So expecting me to give something different from that of peter or the scriptures is not possible!
Jesus is the son of the supreme being, the most high God, the living God.(1 john 5:14, john 3:16-18 , rom 1:3) Angels are called Gods sons too but Jesus is Gods only begotten son.(job 1:6 , john 3:16) Jesus is jehovahs master worker and he is sent to us to be our savior.
On completion of his work on
earth, he went back to heaven,
he told to sit on the right hand
side of the most high.
Jesus is not God almighty, he
did not say so, his disciples or
apostles did not say so.
Jesus is not equal to God, as at all times he was loyal to the
only true God jehovah, even to
the point of death."

Jehovah, the only true God, the almighty anointed jesus as our messiah! , our savior.

Matt 3:17
Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have
approved.”

Luke 9:35
And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him

Matt 16:16
King James Bible
And Simon Peter answered
and said, Thou art the Christ,
the Son of the living God

Heb 1:9
You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.

Seems you need to read up on what Christ, messiah means.

I will even answer a couple of your silly question now.
Jesus sacrificed Himself to
save all man kind, He shed His
own blood, for His own people.

You've left the questions I asked and now answering one I did not ask. I quoted your question, then answered you to show you there is no twisting or something hidden. If you are still interested in answering mine, pls do same so that all will know which question you are answering.

The JW's have a better idea' they would rather sacrifices OTHERS, to save themselves, all in the name of Jehovah.

Pls give us an example! When you make such statements, pls support it with facts.

Besides who are the JW's
married too?

I asked you the statements when you made your false statement about jehovahs witnesses and marriage:

"if you are truthful, can you tell
the whole world the stands of
jehovahs witnesses as to
marriage?
and have you seen them
dissolve any marriage union
before? Do you hear cases of
divorce in their marriages like
you hear about numerous
pastors and religious leaders
today?"

You are not able to answer or respond to these issues/ questions raised. You try to cover it up with another question, well the answer is that jehovahs witnesses will not dissolve ur marriage even if you are married to the village babalawo.! They do not exercise the power to determine if you are married or not outside the law or tradition.
As to your question, jehovahs witnesses are married to fellow humans of the opposite sex as was done by adam and eve.

The Jews didn't have a choice, to stand up against the Nazis, believe it or not, there is a book written, some where out there, called the Spirit of destiny, this book describes, he's private army had witnessed in eye view the spirit of Satan had entered into Hitler. So it doesn't matter if
the JW's had stood their
ground, Hitler's plan was to take over the world.

Sir brocad, it does matter! Standing your ground on the side of jesus and his commands for his followers in the face of imprisionment, serious pain and even death tells a lot about your faith!
They whole heatedly told hitler " we shall serve God rather than men" . germany claims to be a majority Christian country, do you think hitler would have been able to raise such army to fight such deadly war if all the christians (or those who claim to be) had stood their grounds on the side of God like jehovahs witnesses did? So Bro, what the jehovahs witnesses did does matter, they believed jesus when he said " he who loses his life for my sake will have it back(?)"

Then if those JW's stood their ground all in the name of Jehovah, than who did they fight for? JW's don't fight for no army.

Good, they are in the right path
In fulfilling isaiah prophecy :

Isa 2:2-4
Kjv
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we
will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among
the nations, and shall rebuke
many people: and they shall
beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall
not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn
war any more.
Those that live by the sword.......

Hitler hated God's people the Jews, and Hitler once said to take over a country, you must disarm it first.

You still have a lot to learn about isreal and the isrealites.
You call Gods people those who dnt believe in jesus as the Christ.

Note: you have not been able to defend this two lies of urs.

JW's Jehovah believe
humans and animals blood
are the same, and is all
contaminated.......
.........JW's can't accept the fact
that God made us in His
own image,......

Lying does not help.

And you did not say anything about those who are left on earth after the so called rapture!

xerxesII:
Y'all JW never cease to amaze me

Imagine, some set of caucasians(governing body) instruct y'all not to allow your kids go to the university but their own kids have several academic degrees. . .

I know of an elder that had to pull his daughter from school coz he doesn't wanna lose the 'privilege' as an elder

who does that?

Stop lying Bro.

Modified: I might be wrong , but I think your inability to be a witness of jehovah is stemmed or ur belief that things must be done your way.

Nobody told nobody not to allow his or her offspring acquire university education.
I know countless of jehovahs witnesses who have university degrees, even in full time service.
And jehovahs witnesses appreciate the benefit of education.

But ask yourself, what are the benefit of university education to me compared to other forms of education.?

As nigerians, the number one reason why we go to the university is not to acquire knowledge, but to use the acquired knowledge to have the ability of taking care of ourselves and our family through our jobs or work.
But reality has shown us that that is not how it turns out to be eventually. Millions of university graduates are Jobless and are still dependents, and dnt think its going to get better, its going to get worse, even in developed countries, they can't find jobs for all graduates, talk less of nigeria. That's why one is being encouraged to be sure if university degree is the right step.

Another matter to consider is the cost of education. If your family cannot afford it, will it be better if your child learns a trade and become independent financially or use scarce family resources to send the child to the university and he or she ends up back home 4,5,6 years older and still a dependent?

Let's look at those who have been able to secure jobs through university education, you well know about the stress one faces at the office, the constant demand for improvement. You got the job through a bachelors degree but few years down the line, the company will be asking for masters. If you lose that job cus u dnt have masters, other jobs will be hard to get cus they only want masters. This goes on and on even to ph.d level. This is minuse the fact that they use ur free time while at work. Do you want to join the rat race, spending millions with no sure hope of returns?
You might think your case will be different, you are smart, but there are hundreds of smarter ones out there who also think they are different, but are also jobless.

Another thing to look at is the ability to acquire knowlege, the father you said did not allow his child go to the university might have see that that child has talents with other things eg sewing or mechanics, yet 1+1 he or she does not know, Bro, going to school would have been a waste of time and energy and money.

There a lot of other things to consider, but ill leave this for now.
A lot of other ways to take care of urself and your family with time to do other wholesome things than seeking university education.

brocab:
You say our churches are deserting our members, didn't you read all that page I wrote about the two X JW's, now belong to the true faith of Jesus Christ, had joined with us, as born again Christians.

Humble, kind hearted ones are seeing the truth everyday and jehovahs witnesses as an organization continues to grow spiritually. They continue to maintain their faith and beliefs even during persecutions. You no do 1/100 of what hitler did! And yet they stood against him, not with guns and weapons, but with their faith in jehovah.

There are thousand of X JW's who have either lost their loves ones, through marriage, because the JW's had separated them both, {Only because one is not a follower of the JW's} and its not lawful for two to stand together in the eye's of your organization Jehovah.

if you are truthful, can you tell the whole world the stands of jehovahs witnesses as to marriage?

Which of the Jehovah, do you follow?

Our God said: {Mark 10:8-9} "And the two shall become one flesh, that they are no longer two but one flesh, therefore what God has joined together let no man separate. Till death do we part is written on every marriage contract.

and have you seen them dissolve any marriage union before? Do you hear cases of divorce in their marriages like you hear about numerous pastors and religious leaders today?

Lets look at your final decision you make when your only child dies because you won't save her life' given her the blood she needs to live.

How happy,! how joyful,! How fufilled they will be at the ressurection when they see their only child again!, knowing fully well they had followed jehovahs directive and had been faithful to him, believing jesus when he said, " he that loses his life for my sake will have it back" . This time its evalasting in a joyful new world, far far better than what blood transfusion would have given you in a short life full of strife and pain and bad news.
I've personaly seen someone being transfused with blood die due to the blood he took and not the injuries he sustained. Taking blood is not a guarantee to life.

JW's Jehovah believe humans and animals blood are the same, and is all contaminated.

You lie!.

Our God said: {1 John 1:6-7} "If we say we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practise the truth. But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the Blood of Jesus purifies us from all sin.
JW's can't accept the fact that God made us in His own image, which means its the blood of Christ that saves lives, God's blood isn't contaminated.

You lie again.(@ bold)

Do you honestly believe your Church will keep growing, and I bet you believe your Church will be last one standing on this earth in the last day's, "I believe you"

God determines the growth.
1 cor 3:9

Because Christ will have already called his Church to be with Him in the air, As He Promised. {1Thessalonians 4:7}

You still have a lot to read about the scriptures . Go and read what will happen to faithful servants of jehovah after your so called rapture. Go and read Matt 5:5 and ps 37:29. Go and read about those who will survive the great tribulation.

xerxesII:
Y'all JW never cease to amaze me

Imagine, some set of caucasians(governing body) instruct y'all not to allow your kids go to the university but their own kids have several academic degrees. . .

I know of an elder that had to pull his daughter from school coz he doesn't wanna lose the 'privilege' as an elder

who does that?

Stop lying Bro.

@ brocab:

1. I have never threatened you on these thread, and i will never do so.
2. Even though you have not answered my questions, ill try to refrain from pursuing the issue.
3. I've never claimed to be an intelligent person, neither have I ever said I'm more intelligent that you.
4. Never tried to prove any organization is in any range neither I'm I forcing them on anyone, my only request is we read the scriptures.
5. You have the right not to answer my questions( which are based on the word of God)
6. I'm not trying to bully anyone.
7. I'm not Afraid of what anyone thinks, but will like it if they know the truth after reading the thread.
8. People dnt take notice of the jehovahs witnesses, yet the number of their baptized witnesses keep increasing, and their congregations keep expanding.
9. I do not believe your story, jehovahs witnesses dnt preach in a crowd of 4 at someone's door. They would not have stayed with you for that long for you to say " later that day".
Furthermore, they would not have told you they will bring an elder to you the first time they discuss with you. they would probably have turned and left.
10. I do not think there is any question you have asked relating to the scriptures that I have not adressed. If there are any scriptural based questions, pls ask them again.

Jesus said: Who do you say, I am? Mr dolphinheart Would you be kind enough to answer this from your own heart who Chris is to you? It's a simple question? Nothing scriptural- don't give us viewers' Peter's
description, Thanks.

Ill be glad to answer your question above. But you might not like it cus my view on who jesus is similar or same to that of peters description. So expecting me to give something different from that of peter or the scriptures is not possible!
Jesus is the son of the supreme being, the most high God, the living God.(1 john 5:14, john 3:16-18 , rom 1:3) Angels are called Gods sons too but jesus is Gods only begotten son.(job 1:6 , john 3:16) Jesus is jehovahs master worker and he is sent to us to be our savior. On completion of his work on earth, he went back to heaven, he told to sit on the right hand side of the most high.

Jesus is not God almighty, he did not say so, his disciples or apostles did not say so.
Jesus is not equal to God, as at all times he was loyal to the only true God jehovah, even to the point of death.

.............continued
@ brocad

Try and have some
understanding this time, your
demanding is starting to bore
me. You know yourself I am not
willing to follow after your kind,

I did not say you should follow after me, just tell ur understanding of the scriptures I quoted. And answer the simple questions, if you dnt want to answer , just say so.

I believe in Christ, {you say you believe in Christ but not the same way the bible teaches us about Christ} and I am a born again Christian, and their is no other religion out there that will change that in me.

Then you should be able to tell us who jesus called his God using the bible.
You should be able to tell us who gave power and authority to jesus!

These simple things you can't tell us, yet you claim to know jesus Christ.
Do you even know what Christ means? If yes, then who anointed him?

My beliefs in Christ may sound to you a bit over the top, but I assure you, if you knew Christ, like I believe in Christ, your hole life will just change, your eye's will open up, and you will see the word of God working inside your mind, you will hear and see Him in your visions, in your dreams, you would know the differences between the truth and not the truth, the word of God will fill your heart up with so much wisdom and knowledge like Jesus' even at the age of 12 years, your appearances will change, God's love will pour out like rivers of living waters, God will shine through you, everywhere you go, you won't think of any other then the Lord, you will know where you stand with Christ and every word that you study fills your heart up with the glory of God. Your light will shine.

See personal advert, yet you can't answer things partaining to the Christ you claim you know.

I sit here in front of this
computer, and I answer as
many reply's I can, and the Lord puts the scriptures in my heart sometimes quicker then I can write them down..

Maybe that's why you post scriptures that goes contrary to what you are saying and make statements that cannot be found in the word of God.

Since I have knowing Christ my knowledge is far advanced in the word of God. And theirs nothing out there, that could change my mind who I love more.
Knowing Christ It's a hole
different ball game. Everyone
says they either heard about
Christ, and many say the know
Him through the scriptures, try
knowing Him when He lives in
you.
You must understand I am not
here to be in some kind of a
competition with you, I have
shared with you the word of
God, and if you don't want to
accept His word, then move on.

Brocad, the thread is not about personal oppinion about oneself . All these "I did these, I did that, I know these, I have these, i this, i that, i, i, i epistles of yours does not answer the simple questions being posted to you.

Read eccl well again and dnt look for what's not there, but what's there, what it teaches us! .examine the bolded parts
Eccl 3:19-21
for there is an outcome for
humans and an outcome for
animals; they all have the
same outcome. As the one
dies, so the other dies; and
they all have but one spirit.
So man has no superiority
over animals, for everything
is futile. All are going to the
same place. They all come
from the dust, and they all
are returning to the dust. Who really knows whether the spirit of humans ascends upward, and whether the spirit of animals descends down to the earth?

Even if you wunt share your answers with us, pls examine the following questions

1. Is Jesus the same person
as the father?
2. Does Jesus have a God?
3 .Is Jesus subjected to
someone?
4. Is Jesus the same person
as the most high he is sitted
beside?

5. what language is yehovah? And why does the kjv not use it?
6. Is Jesus yehovah!?

@ brocab

The writing of an epistle will not help u. If you dnt answer the questions asked and comment or share your view on the scriptures giving as requested, then your long post will be seen (as always) as an attempt to deviate from the issues under discussion.
Your attempt at not answering the questions and scriptures will be noted while looking at the new issues you have brought up.

Only man is made in the image of God parktaking of His divine nature.

Eccl was not talking about being made in Gods image, but nothwithstanding, can you find a single verse where it is said that man partook of the divine nature when created?
You do not understand what being made in Gods likeness mean.
We are flesh and blood, but we have the attributes of love, justice, mercy etc. , things animals who are also flesh and blood do not have! We can process thoughts in ways that animals can't.

God didn't make
animals in His own image,

Everyone knows that, is that why you said animals dnt have spirit?
Up till now you have refused to tell us why you said so and why you refused to acknowledge or express your views on eccl 3:19-21.

we may have a soul inside but outside we are not the same.

We dnt have a soul inside our body, we are souls!, you are not even sure about your statement. If I should ask you to identity the soul and what it does in the body now, you will only find another thing to talk about.

"The only Hebrew word traditionally translated "soul" (nephesh) in English language Bibles refers to a living, breathing conscious body, rather than to an immortal soul. In the New Testament, the Greek word traditionally translated "soul" (ψυχή) has substantially the same meaning as the Hebrew, without reference to an immortal soul..........
...... The modern scholarly consensus holds that the canonical teaching of the Old Testament made no reference to an "immortal soul" independent of the body. A wide range of scholarly reference works consistently
represent this view.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_in_the_Bible

Gen 2:7 reads :
King James Bible
[b]And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Does this verse go along with the statement found in eccl 3:19- 21? Yes. Most expecially the part that we, me and you brocad, came from DUST!

The question you should now consider is , do animals have a soul inside or are souls.

Next time, always complete what you are trying to say, we are not spirits to know what you are thinking. You said " but outside, we are not the same". I ask you, we are not the same what?!!!.

And still you don't agree.

I don't agree to what?!!!. Tell me what I dnt agree to!

Genesis 1:26-27 "Then God said let Us make man in our own image, according to our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. "God created man in his own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Man can kill animals.

Does this mean that animals dnt have spirit cus man was created in Gods image?

2 Peter 2:12 "But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be
captured and killed, reviling
where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those
creatures also be destroyed.

Is these verse the reason why you believe that animals dnt have spirit? !

1 Thessalonian's 5:23 "Both men and animal are
trichotomous, having both a
soul and a spirit; now may the
God of peace Himself sanctify
you entirety; and may your spirit and soul and body be
preserved complete without
blame at the coming of our lord
Jesus Christ.

You are so wrong, making mention of the soul , body and spirit does not mean we are made up of the three, Gen 2:7 has giving you the beginning of man, how he came to be a soul!
Have you watched the movie concussion( based on a true life story) go and watch it and you will understand how the flesh controls or affects our mind.
Can you tell me what happens to the soul and spirit of a mad man? Is the soul mad too?

Animals are described as "living creatures/souls" in Genesis with exactly the word as a man {soul nephesh}

Why did you then initially say " man may have soul inside" and then come back to post these above. Do you really understand what you have been posting since ?! Or you just post them as you see them without first grasping what it means?

Ecclesiastes 3:21 "Doesn't prove a animal's spirit go's the heaven. even thou the
scriptures tells us there are
horses and living creatures in
heaven, but no-one can prove
earthly animals go to heaven, it
isn't written in the bible is it?

You made these statement :
"As it says the spirit of man
go's up wards and the spirit of a animal go's down wards."
You have not been able to show us how you know that spirit of animals go downward, what you are now trying to do is tell us what eccl did not say. We already know it did not say spirit of animals go to heaven, pls tell us how you came about to state that the spirit of animals go downward.

Do not look at what eccl did not tell you, look at what it tells you even though it goes against your belief. Ill post that verse again later .
One does not just spill things and expect everyone else to believe without adding proves, examples and extra info. You dnt teach people things without giving them an upportunity to find out the truth themselves.

But the bible does prove a man's spirit go's to heaven.
Revelation 6:10 "And the saints cried out how long O lord will you avenge our blood.

You say something and show us a bible verse that says something else.
Did you see spirit in that verse? No. So why do you think they are spirits?

Did the preceding verse mention soul or spirits? It said soul? So why are you now implying it was spirits?
Stop trying to deceive people with false analogy and doctrine!.

Matthew 27:52 "The tombs were open and many bodies of the saints who had falling asleep were risen.

Where this saints spirit? No.
Did they go to heaven? No. They went into the city.

Brocad , you have again failed to show us that human spirit go to heaven. You dnt know the scriptures!

To be continued......

@ brocab

As it says the spirit of man go's up wards and the spirit of a animal go's down wards. and you believe we are all the same? TO BE HONEST YOU JUST DON'T BELIEVE THAT CHRIST LIVES.

Don not close your eyes to the truth brocad, the verses quoted says more than what you quoted above, go and read it again!
You claim that animals dnt have spirit!, I have corrected that belief of urs using the scriptures as guide, but instead of believing what the scriptures says, you rebelled agaist the scriptures and claim it said something it did not say!
Did you ever read in that verse that the spirit of animals go downwards? If yes can you show us ? If no, then why do you lie against the scriptures to perpetuate your false beliefs?

You asked an incomplete question, so ill wait for you to complete the question before answering. You said "and you believe we are all the same?" , my answer to you is : all the same what!?

Ill leave you with the verse again , maybe you did not read it well.

Eccl 3:19-21
for there is an outcome for
humans and an outcome for
animals; they all have the
same outcome. As the one
dies, so the other dies; and
they all have but one spirit.
So man has no superiority
over animals, for everything
is futile. All are going to the
same place. They all come
from the dust, and they all
are returning to the dust.
Who really knows whether the spirit of humans ascends upward, and whether the spirit of animals descends
down to the earth?

Read the scriptures brocad, dnt depend on youtube

@ brocab

I find it very hard talking to you about the word of God, only because you haven't any understanding in any of the scriptures that I have laid out to you.

You are finding it hard cus you can't answer the questions being asked. You want to teach people about the word of God, you claim to have the holy spirit in you, yet you change your stance or refuse to respond to an issue the moment you are caught out.!

No-one is refusing to
answer these scriptures, you
just don't understand either of
them.

I did not direct the scriptures at "no one" I directed the scriptures to you brocad, the scriptures are based on what you have been saying on these thread, yet you refuse to tell us your understanding of them, despite your repeated claim that I dnt understand them.
You have tried repeatedly to divert attention from those scriptures by bringing up different things at every point in the discussion, cus they expose your beliefs as falsehood.
You diverted to celebrations and jesus birthday, but when you found out how wrong you where about the "three wise men", shepherds giving gifts and being giving gifts on his birth, you changed direction again and refused to talk about it.

I knew you will not answer the questions, but I will put it in these post again as a reminder to all to see the questions you can't answer!

1. Is Jesus the same person
as the father?
2. Does Jesus have a God?
3 .Is Jesus subjected to
someone?
4. Is Jesus the same person
as the most high he is sitted
beside?
You used "yehovah" several
times in your post, hence I
repeat the questions
5.Abeg what language is
yehovah? And why does the
kjv not use it?
6. Is Jesus yehovah!?

I can still bet you wunt answer
these questions in your reply
as you refused to talk about
the scriptures quoted.

@ brocab

Its great you are using me as your tool to learn about the word of Yehovah, but It takes time to answer to your
demands.

If that's the way you see it, no problem. Just note that people know better and they see you can't answer scriptural questions.

Listen I am not
expecting you to understand
the things I have written in a
short time, so I have kept my
head together and I am
relaxing, waiting on the lord.
Just sit back theirs plenty of
time, we will learn the truth in no time.

You sha like to always talk about yourself!

You may say you read the scriptures, but without you
understanding them, the
scriptures won't have any
means to them.

And yet you still refused to give us ur own understanding if the scriptures I quoted. You believe you have the understanding yet you are not telling us your view of the scriptures I quoted.

I have explain the word of Yehovah time and time over,
and you still can't work them
out, listen you must relax, and
wait for the SPIRIT OF
YEHOVAH to answer you.
There is no rush, the word of
Yehovah has been around
since day one.
I don't speak on my own
authority but Yehovah's
authority alone. The word of
Yehovah isn't about head
knowledge, we need the Spirit
to teach us all things.
Get with the program and Let
yourself move on to the next
subject.
Because you STILL don't
understand this last subject.
And if you believe you are
equal to an animal, then don't
give blood to help save a life,
save yourselves, and let them
die. Just like the animals do
with their own.
ARE YOU HAPPY NOW I
HAVE USED YEHOVAH all
would you prefer YHWH
Yahwah, instead of Jehovah?

You think this your post will change the fact that you did not know man and animals have same spirit? Bet you where shocked when you read that scripture, but pride wunt make you admit it but push you to try and change the topic, acting as if you never said "animals dnt have spirit".

Pls read the bolded part of the scripture posted below, I did not say it! It can be found in the word of God, the word of God you claim to know!

Eccl 3:19-21
for there is an outcome for
humans and an outcome for
animals; they all have the
same outcome. As the one
dies, so the other dies; and
they all have but one spirit.
So man has no superiority
over animals, for everything
is futile. All are going to the
same place. They all come
from the dust, and they all
are returning to the dust.
Who really knows whether
the spirit of humans ascends
upward, and whether the
spirit of animals descends down to the earth?

Again I ask you, hope you learnt something
from the scripture above.?

You know nothing about the soul, and I'm beginning to wonder if you know anything about the spirit.!

The question will be posted to you again since you re still refusing to answer
1. Is Jesus the same person
as the father?
2. Does Jesus have a God?
3 .Is Jesus subjected to
someone?
4. Is Jesus the same person
as the most high he is sitted
beside?

You used "yehovah" several times in your post, hence I repeat the questions
5.Abeg what language is
yehovah? And why does the
kjv not use it?
6. Is jesus yehovah!?

I can still bet you wunt answer these questions in your reply as you refused to talk about the scriptures quoted.

@ brocab

Without you realizing you are actually learning the truth about the word of God.
This is why I keep this
compensation going with you, I
have seen some good changes
in you, and of course I do notice you are getting all worked up, but that's understandable, when I was an atheist, and every time someone spoke to me about
the word of God, I was feeling
angry too, like you I thought I
knew better then the other
fellow.

The attempt at playing psychologist will not shield you from the fact that you can't show ur view on scriptural quotes, neither where you able to answer the questions posed to you.
Repeatedly reffering to yourself shows the kind of person you are.

Animals don't have Spirits,

You need to read the scriptures, cus you dnt.

Eccl 3:19-21
for there is an outcome for
humans and an outcome for
animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.
Who really knows whether the
spirit of humans ascends
upward, and whether the spirit of animals descends down to the earth?

Hope you learnt something from the scripture above.?

people do, some call souls spirits and others don't. But it isn't important.

I like your style, you can't tell us if you call or dnt call souls "spirits". That's why you say spirit and put soul in bracket beside it. You know nothing about the soul!

Its important cus it tells a lot about who we are, soul and spirit are not the same thing and it seems you dnt know the difference.

But I may ask, where do you get these silly questions from, are they from you, or are they the questions the JW's ask you to give?
If you are trying to prove you
have some sense up on top,
then think again, your
knowledge can never over
power the word of God.

Asking you questions about jesus is now silly in your eyes. It a politician that can't answer a question that will start attacking the source of the question. Simple questions you refuse to answer!

1. Is Jesus the same person as
the father?
2. Does Jesus have a God?
3 .Is Jesus subjected to
someone?
4. Is Jesus the same person as
the most high he is sitted
beside?
Reflect on these question and
if you feel you can answer
them? Pls let us know.

On Gods name.
5.Abeg what language is
yehovah? And why does the
kjv not use it?

6.Since you now know the
name of God, why dnt you
use it?

@ brocab
Another shift from the main discussion, let's see what you have to say here

Yes Jesus did receive gifts on His birthday by 3 wise men and the shepherds.

How did you come about these belief? From the bible?(which you refused to quote), derived analogy or just plain guess!?

You keep on spilling info you can't find in the scriptures.
Who are the three wise men or where did you get the "three wise men" from?, worshipers of God or astrologers that God warned us against.?
Who told you they where three in number? And where is it recorded that they came to jesus on his birthday.?
The people that taught you about the scriptures taught you wrong! .
Its either you did not pay attention or they did not use the scriptures when teaching you.

I know you will not respond to this info I just passed to you in question format. Ull probably come up with something else to talk snout.

Jesus birthday was around March April, its the only time of the year when the new lambs are born. Not like us humans babies they are born everyday.

Bro, who is telling you this falsehood.
1. Did the scriptures tell you the time jesus was born?
2. How do you know that new lambs are born when jesus was born?
3. if you say jesus was born in match/April, then its either you are being fed falsehood or those that say(including the prophecy) jesus lived 3 and half years where Lying. Ill leave you and readers of my post to arrive at their personal conclusions!
you celebrate his death and resurrection around that. Same March/april too o.!

People may say good things about others only because they either know that person well enough, or in most cases they are hearing it from someone else, someone once said to me, if you can tell a good yarn well enough, people will believe it.
And if people are saying nice
things about your
organizations, its because they
are either part of the JW's or
maybe some ones not telling
the complete truth about you.

Do you know the truth about jehovahs witnesses ? If yes then answer the following question?

Do jehovahs witnesses participate in warfare? Yes or no.
Is it a good think to participate and kill people like some so called christians do?

If the answer to both questions above is no, then is someone in his right mind or not if he/she make positive remarks about those actions?
Bet you wunt answer these!

If you told them the truth, instead of hiding the facts, that they can't celebrate their birthday's or spend time with their families on these special days, Christmas, Easter or Thanks given, or any other holiday, nor associate with their friends, could cause a up roar, but because none from your organization speak any truth about yourselves, of course you will have those speaking highly about you.

You say they dnt speak the truth, , and yet you see them every time coming to tell people about their beliefs.
You say they hide the truth, and yet you see their views on the celebrations you mentioned in the most widely distributed and published magazines in the world.
You say they dnt talk about it, yet you see it mentioned during their gathering which is free for anyone to attend (without gate fee or forced monetary collections)
Anyone on earth can find their view on these celebrations in the website that has been mentioned several times on these thread, yet you claim they hide them. Maybe you want it on youtube for you to feel its not hidden!.

I ALWAYS SAY HONESTY IS OUR WAY TO SUCCESS.
If the JW's were up front in the
first place with their honesty,
and told the people the truth
about your organization, you
wouldn't have people like me
speaking out the truth about
you.[/quotes]

Yep, we can all see ur truth.
[quote]God gave us our birth rights, and I Celebrate my birthday in remembrance that the lord brought me into this world, and gave me a life to live. God the Father give Jesus His birth right and He celebrated Jesus's birthday in remembrance He is the God of this world sending in 3 wise men and the shepherds,
given Him gifts, and glorifying
God praising Him.

Keep on using your false stories to celebrate your pagan events. Birthrights and birthdays are not the same thing!

It doesn't matter how poor we are' or how rich we are- Christmas is a day, that brings people together, who cares if we celebrate it in the wrong time of the year, but at least it brings families and friends together, spending that special time showing our love and becoming a family once again, given gifts to each other, just for a smile, either spending time with the Lord or not, where their is love, God is in the mist of them all. God is Love..

Christians are supposed to do this EVERYDAY!, not choosing a day laced with pagan customs as the day to show love and give gifts. If you show love to your family everyday, you wunt need someone to choose a calender date to do that.

No-one supports war, and besides every war that
happened either in the passed,
and now, isn't about people
dying its about money and
power.

No one supports war? Na spirits they fight the human wars? If no one supports it like jehovahs witnesses do, then most wars would not have occured.

No I think you have put
yourselves in prison, you are
free to a certain level, but your
Children are lock away from
other Children.

Thank God its only in ur thoughts
If my children are no part of the world, then they are obeying Jesus' command.
Its a prisoner that has to fix a date to express his feelings to his family and have a good time. Its a free person that chooses any day to be with his family.