₦airaland Forum

akaahs:
You shall not bow down to them or serve them (Ex. 20:45); Alas, this people have sinned a great sin; they have made for themselves gods of gold(Ex.32:31). It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it. But calling other Christians most especially Catholics idolaters because they have images of Christ and Saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses (both good and bad) of statues. God forbade the workship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues. Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious contexts!

So God commanded their use, those commands where specific, it cannot be replicated by others to make other statues. Furthermore those commands where recorded!
now when did God tell those who make statues or images today for religious purposes to do so, where is such command recorded.

In Ex. 25:18-22; 26:1; 31, for example, God commands the making of image of golden chorus. This heavenly image, of of course, is not worshiped by the Israelites. Instead, the image dispose their minds to the supernatural and draws them to God.

less than 1% of isrealites have seen these statues or images, so the issue of them worshiping it would not come up. It is not placed in homes or door ways where everybody passes, or on streets and on mountaintop like it is done today. so the isrealites wunt even worship it cus they don't see it! are our present day images hidden.?

God also command the making of broze serpent. One had to look at the broze statue of the serpent to be heale, which shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decoration s. The image of the bronze serpent is not an idol to be worshiped, but an article that lifts the mind of the supernatural

and that same image was destroyed when people started paying undue reverence to it.

. Solomon s temple contains statues of cherubium and images that were used in worship(1 Kings 6:23-36;7:27-39;8:6-67).

1. The statues or images where not placed where anyone could see them .
2. Solomon followed written down instructions from God as to the making of these images and statues, so he did not make for himseof any image for religious purpose.
3. images made is the house of Solomon are not for religious purpose, the one for religious purpose are in the temple.

it was only when the people began to worship the statuein 2 Kings 18:4 that they did incur Gods wrath, and the King destroyed it.

It would have been good if you stated what the king destroyed. I'm of the view that the images destroyed where not worshiped, but used in worship, a practise that God did not command.

The command prohibiting the use of graven images deals exclusively with the false worship of those images. The only image of God that Catholics worship is Jesus Christ, who is the "image" (Greek "eikon" of the invisible God (col.1:15).

good to hear that the catholics worship an image!, an image of the image of God.!. This man made image has no divine commandment supporting it's production.
note: when those images where made in the old testament, nobody was said to make copies and put it in his home .

God's commandment in Deu.5:8- "thou shall not make a graven image'' is entirely connected to the worship of false gods. God does not prohibit images to be worship, but He prohibits the images themselves to be workshiped as idols.

you contradict yourself in this same post: "God forbade the workship of statues,".
its is connected to the worship of false gods and the worship of God himself. " do not make for YOURSELF" is the instruction of God. So making an image without divine instructions or command is same as making an image for yourself, no matter whose image it is or what it is meant for.
The isrealites know the God that brought them across the red sea, but they where punished for making an image of him. How much so now if one makes an image of God like you claim to do, saying," it is an image of God, not an image of false God’s. its like making your case worse.
The funny thing is that those making the images of Jesus do not even know how jesus looked like.

Christions, especially Catholics use images in worship and devotions; we do not use ''idols''.

Why do they do so?
did the disciples do so?
is it written in the scriptures that christians should do so?
where is the command that images should be made for Jesus and Mary? as we saw in the scriptures about images made during the old testament, no image relating to worship in any form was made without divine instructions.

The different lies in what we believe about them. An ''idol'' is something made that is not simply used in worship, but itself is the object of worship. Sacrifices and obligations are offered to idols, since sacrificed is the root of any true worship. An image is something that is used in worship, but is not itself the object of worship. Sacrifices and oblation are not offered to images.
I hope these write up 'll enlighten our Protestants brethren. I 'll be posting on the issue about Why do catholics venerate the virgin Mary, the issue of Tithe, How we got Chrismas, Christmas Tree and Santa Claus.

non of the above can find approval in the scriptures, you can go ahead and people will examine your explanations.

“‘You must not make worthless gods for yourselves, and you must not set up a carved image or a sacred pillar for yourselves, and you must not put a stone figure in your land in order to bow down toward it; for I am Jehovah your God.

De 4:15, 16“Therefore, watch yourselves closely—since you did not see any form on the day Jehovah spoke to you in Hoʹreb out of the middle of the fire—16that you may not act corruptly by making for yourselves any carved image having the form of any symbol, the representation of male or female,
(do you think God was talking about images of false gods here?)

De 4:23Be careful that you do not forget the covenant of Jehovah your God that he made with you, and do not make for yourselves a carved image, the form of anything forbidden to you by Jehovah your God.

De 27:15“‘Cursed is the man who makes a carved image or a metal statue, a thing detestable to Jehovah, the workmanship of the hands of a craftsman, and who has hidden it.’ (And all the people will respond, saying, ‘Amen!’)

Ac 17:29“Therefore, since we are the children of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, like something sculptured by the art and design of humans.

winner01:
If another date was chosen. Skeptics will still find a god to attribute it to. We have 365 days and there about 5000+ gods.
Personally, i see nothing wrong in celebrating Jesus anyday. He owns all days.

Why not kukuma celebrate him everyday!, since he owns all days. why go through the stress of finding just one day for the celebration?, a celebration we where not even commanded to observe, and no precedence set by the disciples to celebrate it!

dalaman:
It says kill everybody in the city including animals and put the entire town to torch as a burnt offering unto God. Remember God of the bible loves the smell of flesh.

you read it wrongly, bet you even wanted to read it wrongly, go and read it again, and if you are sure you are right, quote the verses again. humans are not offered as burnt offering.

yemixi4real:
I am not saying he disobeyed being fully aware the vow he made was voluntary and not ordered by God, the misconception I will love to clarity on is how he redeemed his vow... Taking the bible passage as reference

he probably redeemed it by sending the child to the temple to serve, just like Samuel case. Note the girl was more about her virginity, not about getting burnt.

tartar9:
Allah didn't order genocide or rape

Then im right to say that Allah is not the God of the isrealites then, he was not the one who gave those commands, Though I do not see rape there o, maybe you have another scripture that prescribe rape, like your hadit's!

tartar9:
post it

no I wunt, the bible is the most published collection of books on earth, it's easy to find and read. There you will find what Allah told the isrealites to do to the amale kites. unless you feel that the God of isreal is not Allah, then pls dnt read it.

DeathStroke007:
see this fool o.. 15-18 years old lady is a kid?


go and do research on age ladies get married...



its 13-18... that's legalized by law in almost every country..

let's assume your lies are true, Mary was still far far older that aisha when she was married, more than twice aisha age. In reality, aisha was not even up to 6 years of age, unless they did not calculate her age using the Muslim calender, which is over a week short every year.

marsoden:
I don't really think you're right.

First he said "let us" make man in "our own image". Does the other host of heaven have the image of God? Do angels have the image of God? What about the elders? The living creatures? I don't think they have the image of God. The fact that man was made in the image of God is the reason why redemption for man(after the fall) was something that must happen. If angels were made in the image of God, God would have also been interested in their redemption after their fall.

I'm not sure, but I think God was talking to God the son and God the holyspirit.

you need to explain " the image of God for a better understand".

not sure, but I dnt think there is redemption for any perfect being. If there is , can you give an example? that's why I dnt thing God will redeem any angel, cus they where perfect and know the full implication of their choices.
never read God the son and God the holy spirit, are you saying there are 3 God's talking to each other.

tartar9:
read what? just see the nonsense ure saying

I can guess you did not read it

tartar9:
You are one sick and evil human just like your god.so because your forefathers did not let my forefathers pass their own land,it will be just okay if I kill and rape your entire family including your little kids

did you read judges 11 at all or you are just looking for something to rant about.

op, are you saying the Cristian greek scriptures are lies ?

misreal:
i have two questions to ask

1.did mohammed ever practiced any of the above mentioned?
2.did mohammed ever condemned any of the above mentioned?........if "no",then it is only a muslim hypocrite that will not do as the imam abul has said.therein lies the true followers of islam.

are you saying that true muslims should do as the imam Abdul has said?

The day you both declare to each other your intention to each other to be husband and wife, and sexual activity can occur after you have publicly announced it and after it had followed by some form of ceremony to show the world it's not a farce but a binding arrangement that everyone should respect. no ordained minister or government official is necessary, but to give ceasers things to ceaser, it is expected that the union should be registered.

despite the man and woman being the main proponent of the union and consuming, the family and community play a big role in deter mining some few things.


* this is just my personal opinion

brocab:
I have given you the truth about thr scriptures and you cant answer any of them.

you are lying again, throughout this thread, I've been proposing that you explain the bible verses you and I posted, and even on some of the verses you posted, for everyone to give an explanation when asked about his views on Bible verses. you have vehemently refused to give explanation, you have totally refused to even quote those scriptures, often time claiming it does not matter. often time I show you Scriptural verses telling you the truth, yet you refuse to see them, and even if you are forced to see them you totally refused to talk about them. an example of how you have been avoiding the scriptures yet Tryin to claim you show scripturAl truth is your present refusal to quote and explain revelation 1: 1,6.
Your refusal to quote and explain those verses(including the others you have neglected)is bourne out from the fact that your nature is governed by fault finding and not truth seeking. you refuse to examine rev 1:1 to 6, but go straight to verse 7 and 8 cus the initial verses 1 to 6 are too explicit and cannot be twisted by you to surpport your fault finding desire.

I suppose its only because you dont know any of them. It doesnt matter what verses revelalation 1:1-6 has to say, what matters is your bible had already agreed, who christ is. He is the one you worship not the father he is the father.

can you hear urself, that it does not matter what the word of God says!.
you know why it does not matter to you, it does not matter to you cus that's the only way you can find an excuse not to examine it's content. or rather, you have privately examined it's content and found out it is against your falsely generated and derived doctrines, and the only way to keep your doctrines afloat is to say some verses in the scriptures does not matter.
well I tell you brocab, God knew that people like you will exist, that's why he had John record those words found at rev 1:1 to 6, so that whichever way or angle you use to cover the truth up, individuals who are seaching for the truth will find it. Because you can't cover the truth up any longer, you now says it does not matter.

You keep on asking where is my church, Firstly what has my church got to do with any of the scriptures, but you keep on asking, its funny you say born agains dont shy away, and its more funny because JWs do.

first, I've never at any time asked you where your church is, so stop these attempted diversion. The location of your church or you yourself does not matter to me.

I've asked you to tell the world your church for the following reasons.
1. Your church will tell us about the doctrines you believe in, and everyone will be able to know if the church is true or not. And if you do not believe the doctrines of your church, then you are not supposed to attend such church.
2. The initial reasons for asking the name of your church is to check if it's true that your church follows Scriptural directives when it comes to how to deal with sinners in its midst. to examine if your words are true or false.
3. Another reason to know your church is for everyone to examine if truly , a person who claims to have to the holy spirit in him is associating with an organization that displays the fruits of the holy spirit.

you have so far, up till this moment shown you can't tell people about the church you attend, that you are afraid to reveal your church and thus will continue to bring up excuses rather than just tell people the church you attend.
I'm sure people reading these posts will know you as someone desiring to throw stones while living in a glass house.

In your desperate bid to alter the truth, you have so far refused to tell us who is talking in rev 3:2,12. you have read those verses and you know that quoting or explaining those verses will show the world you are a liar and a propagator of false doctrines, hence your refusal to talk about them.

Are you a Jehovahs witness?No!, so even is you say they shy away, why not show them the right way and prove them wrong by not shying away from telling people your church!

brocab:
Calling yourself an JW, doesn't fit the bill of what church you are from either?

is these your response to verse 1 and 6 of rev? said it a couple of times you can't talk about those verses cus it shows your doctrine to be false!, you have just proven, one more time that I'm right.

And because I call myself a born again, what difference does it make which church I am from?

a born again will not shy away from explaining Scriptural verses posed to him or her, it's someone who has something to hide that will not quote the scriptures.

Look at the question you asked again and tell me if it's reasonable or not, so it does not make a difference if you claim to be born again but yet you are attending a church that condones things the scriptures told us to be against. brocab, it's important that you should be proud to tell anyone the church you attend!

The answer to this question is' we have two different type Christians.

and yet you have just failed to tell us the two type of christians you have. And how does this affect naming your church, or quoting and explaining rev 1: 1,6.

What you should be asking is, what countries are we both From? And I am not from Africa.

and what does your location or country of origin or race have to do with the scriptures?
does location,race or country make you a better christian than others? or does it give you better access to the holy spirit than others not from the same place or race?
it seems you are running out of reasons not to quote or explain rev 1:1 and 6 and not to tell us the church you attend, which has made you to try to shift it(as always) to an irelivant issue. no one cares what country you come from brocab, except you are from a war torn region.

brocab:
You say you do not Judge, and yet you have Judged, what happens in a Church stays in the Church.
Have you yourself witnessed these so called fornicators, these drunkards, these Idolaters,yourself?

and did they announce to you those they have disfellowshipped? or do they put a bulletin out to state that this person has been expelled for so so and so ?.
They do not judge, but if they find out that someone is committing the atrocities the scriptures says they should be disfellowshipped for, they follow Scriptural directives ok!
and those Scriptural directives is what you fail to see,despite that it has been posted for you to see, you still refuse to read it. you believe you are wise and can handle such issues you own way and b not the way that the scriptures tells us to.

Usually if the Churches see's a man woman or Child committing a crime of such, and someone catches them in the act, yes its right to talk to them about it, and if they don't listen, then its right for that person and two elders to front up with him/her about the matter.

good, now show us with proof that Jehovahs witnesses do things differently from the way you just stated. If you can't find none, then you show urself to the world to know who you are, ranting about an issue you know nothing about.

The elders of the Church can ask the man woman and child to be remove from the Church, but they can't disqualified them from their Christian faith, their matter is with the lord, and if they choose to stay with Christ, then they need to stop doing what crimes they had committed and return themselves back as Christians.

haha, you are just confessing small small, so what's the difference between removing as your church is reported to do (though I dnt believe you), and disfellowshipping as Jehovahs witnesses do? when you remove them, do you follow the scriptures directive about how you associate with them after you have removed them? guess you do not, that's why you refused to talk about that aspect.

Again I have to tell you, no one disqualifies anyone from their faith. you cant claim to follow jesus while committing fornication or being a drunkard na, it is a physical proof that you dnt follow Christ if you keep on committing fornication, hence the issue of being disqualified from their christian faith is somehow, cus they have disqualified themselves already, their disfellowshipping is just to keep the congregation clean in the eyes of Jehovah.

If they chose to follow jesus, they would not have been disfellowshipped! cus they would not have been commuting those sins to the point of being disfellowshipped.
and if they truly want to follow Christ, they would have confessed there sins and reported to the elders, with that, the issue of disfellowshipping might not come up.
and even to those who where disfellowshipped , they have all the chance in the world to get back to being a servant of Jehovah and a follower of Jesus. There are a lot of people I know who have done that.

I'm starting to believe that you do not know anything about this issue, but you just want to rant.

No man has any rights to take God away from them, nor have any rights to condemn them for eternity, from Christ Himself.

GOD IS NOT IN OR WITH A FORNICATOR, AN ADULTERER, ONE THAT STEALS!, if they want to be with God , they know what to do , and no one will stop them or deny them!

We have choices to make-we choose to walk with Christ-or we choose not with Christ. We have people from all walks of life they come and go as they please. We all war against the principality and against the demons in this world.
I have found none that's prefect, and Christians have sometimes their up's and down's. Like you! Like me! True Christians know Christ, have you heard of the saying My sheep knows My voice. Do understand the story about the tares and the wheat, at the end of the harvest, first the wheat will be gathered into the barns, while the tares will be throwing into the fire.
Have you heard about when Jesus said: many are called but few are chosen.

that is why the scriptures mentions forgiveness, chastising, re proving, setting things straight. If you read the scriptures you will realise that being disfellowshipped does not directly mean you will be destroyed, you can only be destroyed if you dnt change your ways and seek Jehovah and follow jesus righteous directives. One you have done that , Jehovah is ready to forgive your sins, clean up ur slate and make your path straight. you can only get this opportunity while alive, cus there is no forgiveness of sin if you die.
you show you love Jehovah and you do his will , the congregation is glad to help you get back into the fold of those that dislike sin.
everyone sins, but some people try not to make it deliberate, and if they deliberately do it due to weakness of the flesh, they know how to seek atonement and forgiveness, those one are not disfellowshipped, expelled, or removed. get it!

brocab:
No-ones refusing nothing, you just can't get your head around it who Jesus is to you.

Then quote verse 1 and 6 of rev chapter 1 and tell us what you understand by what is written there. by doing so , you have shown us you are not refusing anything.
I know who Jesus is to me, he is the one who sent by God to tell us the truth about him, to show us the way to the father, and to provide a means by which we can gain evalasting life. He is the one who God has appointed and anointed to be our savior , to judge mankind and to bring God's people to God.
He is the king of God's kingdom, he is our savior and God has provided no other person to save us than his son jesus.

As far as you are concern He is just another man who walked the earth, If Jesus walked past you, you wouldn't even recognise Him.

Read above about who I think jesus is and stop this your false assumptions.

you sabi jesus physically ? abeg describe him for us! and where did you read that Jesus is going to walk on the earth again?

You wouldn't even recognise God coming, only unless God's Spirit enters into a Man's body, and both Spirit and flesh becomes One with each other. And still you wouldn't recognise Him.

you that is afraid to name your church is telling someone he can't recognize God, describe God for us, you that have seen God with the sprit in you.

brocab:
How many times do I have to write who Jesus is to you. Your bible describes the same description who's coming back to collect His people Revelation 1:7-8 "NTW and the KJ Bibles both show us Jehovah God and Jesus are both the same person.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
Now we couldn't have two with the same names, now could we? Unless the bibles are telling us they are one person?

and you just confirmed that your doctrine is false. by your statement, you are telling us that no God gave jesus the Revelation he gave to John as recorded in verse one, by your statements, you are also telling us that Jesus has no God like verse 6 tells us.
You re also have hiprocricy in you, as you have always accused Jehovahs withnesses of not worshiping jesus but jehovah.
that same quality would not allow you to tell us if jesus is same person as the father or same person as the one sitted on the throne. remember, you had earlier said one of them will come , this indicates they are more than one person.

Before I tell you more about Jehovah, I'll like to remind you to quit adding to what the scriptures says,the word "coming back" is not found in rev 1:7,8.

now who is Jehovah,? David tells us he is the God of isreal.
1 chr 17 :24: May your name endure and be exalted forever, so that people may say, ‘Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, is God to Israel,’ and may the house of your servant David be firmly established before you.
in Psalms David also said he is the maker of the earth.
Ps 124:8O : ur help is in the name of Jehovah, The Maker of heaven and earth.”
he also said:
Ps 97:9: For you, O Jehovah, are the Most High over all the earth; You are exalted far above all other gods.
isaiah said:
Isa 45:18 : For this is what Jehovah says, The Creator of the heavens, the true God, The One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it, Who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.
Paul further said:
Ro 3:29: Or is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of people of the nations? Yes, also of people of the nations.
Jehovah himself said he does not change in mal 3:6
and he said in Exodus 6:3( and this time I used the kjv)
King James Version
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Michai said:
1Ki 22:19: Mi·caiʹah then said: “Therefore, hear the word of Jehovah: I saw Jehovah sitting on his throne and all the army of the heavens standing by him, to his right and to his left.


The scriptures(below) indicated the Jehovah called himself the father of the isrealites and the isrealites called Jehovah their father.
jer 3:19, jer 31: 9, isa 63: 16, isa 64:8, Deut 32:6, 1 chr 29:10, mal 1: 6, mal 2:10.

Though there are thousands of scripture verses I could refer to about Jehovah, this one's will do for now, you might not read them anyway.
from all the verses posted above, we have learned the following
1. Jehovah is the almighty God, the name of the almighty God is Jehovah.
2. jehovah is the God of isreal
3. Jehovah is also the God of gentiles who accept him as their God.
4. Jehovah is the creature of the earth.
5. Jehovah is the most high God.
6. Jehovah is the father of the isrealites.
7. jehovah is the one who sits on the throne.

There are also Scriptural verses about Jehovah as the one sitted on the throne and residing in heaven, you can check it if you are interested.

Now that the scriptures had clarified some things about jehovah let us check what jesus said about these things to know if jesus is Jehovah or not.

1. did Jesus say he is almighty God to signify he is Jehovah?NO!, at no time did Jesus ever say that he is the almighty God, he had several times stated that he is the son of God, and his disciples repeat ed this truth.
Kjv
Ps 45:7: Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

2 did Jesus state he is the God of isreal of the world? No!
kjv
Joh 5:36: But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.(God sent jesus, the father sent jesus, the father is God and not jesus)read 1 John 5:9
kjv
Ac 17:30,31 :And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.( the person who raised and the person who was raised are not the same person).
Ac 2:22: “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ was a man publicly shown to you by God through powerful works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.(The person that did things nd the person through whom things are done are not the same person)

3 did Jesus call himself the God of the gentiles? no

4.did Jesus or the scriptures call himself the most high God? NO! jesus and others writers of the scriptures tell us that Jesus has a God!(an issue you refuse to talk about), therefore he is not the most high God.
Joh 20:17.
2Co 1:3: Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and the God of all comfort,
RoM 15:6: so that unitedly you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Kjv
2Co 11:31: The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
Kjv
Eph 1:3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Kjv
Eph 1:17: That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Kjv
1Pe 1:3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
kjv
Mr 5:7: And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
kjv
Lu 1:32: He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
rev 1:6(a verse you have refused to acknowledge nor respond to):
and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

5 did Jesus call himself the father of the isrealites?No!
kjv
Joh 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Joh 5:19[b]Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.[/b]

6 did Jesus call himself the only true God? NO!, on the contrary he called the father the only true God, as jesus is not the same person as the father(an issue you have refused to comment on)therefore jesus is not the only true God.
kjv
Joh 17:1 to 3: These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


7.did the scriptures indicate that Jesus is Jehovah? NO!
Mic 5: 4
He will stand up and shepherd in the strength of Jehovah, In the superiority of the name of Jehovah his God. And they will dwell in security, For now his greatness will reach the ends of the earth.


8. was jesus sent by God? yes, God did not send himself!
kjv
Joh 3:2,16,17, 32: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

9. is jesus the one sitting on the throne? NO!
kjv
Heb 8:1: Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Ps 110:1: Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”
kjv
Ac 7:55,56: But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.


brocab, I've used the scriptures to show you that
1. Jesus is not the God of isreal, therefore jesus is not Jehovah
2. Jesus is not the almighty God, therefore he is not Jehovah
3. Jesus has a God, therefore he is not the almighty God.
4. Jesus is the son of God , therefore he is not the father, he is not the father of the isrealites , therefore he is not Jehovah.
5. E jesus and the scriptures acknowledge the father to be superior to him, therefore jesus is not the almighty God and so jesus is not Jehovah.
6. prophecies that the name Jehovah was mentioned indicated that he is not sending himself as Messiah but sending someone else, showing that the messenger, Jesus is not jehovah
7. Jesus at no point ever said he is God Almighty.

brocab, Jesus is not Jehovah and you lie with your doctrine

It doesn't matter which way the scriptures shows us, who Jesus really is, you will never believe it, because the spirit in you is not the same as the Spirit of God.

you are talking about yourself, you do not a acknowledge the scriptures, you do not tell your view about the scriptures you are asked to talk about.
For example you want to talk about verse 7 and 8, but refuse to explain verse 6 of rev 1.

Which makes life a little harder for you to understand the scriptures.

everyone can see that I've not only been quoting the scriptures, but explaining my understandings of the scriptures that you quoted without giving your understanding of it.

Have you ever falling in love with that special person? Someone you have been so touched by, your insides are feeling overly realm, just being around this person. Every minute of the day, your thoughts cant stop thinking about that person. Your aim is to get to know that person, and while the seconds are counting, all you want is to be with that person. You just know deep within your spirit and her/his Spirit is connected with you.

Jesus said , love thy God with your whole heart, who did Jesus tell us that God is? The father, Jehovah!

Have you ever falling in love?

yep

Now I am not expecting to answer this-you may be one of those who have been torn apart from a relationship, and you may find it hard to love another soul.

your assumptions are wrong and diversionary

Well this sort of love, even better I have for Jesus, my aim is to know who He is, where He is from, why do I love this man so much? Who is this man? And why is He in my thoughts every day? And why do I feel so connected to Him? And why do I believe His Spirit lives in my spirit inside Me. And why do I do' preaching His word? Thinking about His word? Acting on His word' and doing His word. And why do I want to be with that man.

and after you have aimed to know jesus, pls aim to know the true God,Jehovah, the father, the almighty. why ? cus jesus has told me that such knowledge, including the knowledge about him, the one sent by the true God Jehovah , means evalasting life. These are jesus words himself and you will see it as you aim to know jesus Christ. John 17: 1-3

And until one falls in love with Jesus, I suppose no-one knows the experiences or understand the essence of love.

I know God loves us so much that he could send jesus Christ to us.

a question for you brocab, who is the one talking here.(I m betting you will not answer sha)
rev 3: 2,12
kjv of verse 12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


you can read this scriptures also for beter understanding Matthew 22:32; 23:39; Mark 11:9,10;

brocab:
A question you need to ask yourself?
You can't work out what Church I am from? Come on you can't be this silly? I am a born again Christian.

Like I said earlier, they will say they have found jesus but cannot disclose the church they associate with.

1 peter 2:24 "He himself bore our sins, in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by His wounds you have been healed.
John 1:29 "The next day John saw Jesus coming towards him, and said "look the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
Jesus bored all our sins-Sin is sin-Did you cast Him out of your church too?

would have answered you, but I just see it as diversionary, cus I'm sure you dnt believe that Jesus is a sinner cus he bore our sins. and if you dnt believe that, it's an irony for you to ask if we expelled jesus, it's just shows your aim.

Romans 5:12 "Therefore one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because all sinned.
And no-ones condoning sin, it's flesh and blood that sins, what makes you the judge?

I do not judge, but the scriptures has (as mentioned several times to you)stated what should be done to one who commits such sins( as mentioned in the scriptures) and does not repent.

your drive to find fault in the way Jehovahs withnesses handle sinners among them has made you not to tell us on this thread how ur church handles someone who is a fornicator and does not change his ways. You offer no solution, but you are just out to find fault.

If you looked deep into a man's heart, usually something is bothering him, but because no-one is listening to him, of course his out break could be fatal.
Leaving one Church into another doesn't mean the man's a drunkard or a fornicator, it just means he may need a little counselling, and if he refuses that, then its best to give him space, behind closed doors no-one knows who this man is, until he reveals himself, the flesh don't care.

brocab, we are not handling assumptions here, we are talking bout a confirmed person that fornicates and is a drunkard!, one who has been proven beyond doubt that he commits those sins. tell us how your church handles such one.

Have you not heard love your God with all your heart soul and mind and love your neighbour as yourself.

loving your neighbour does not give you a right or a leeway in condoning sin!.

You are starting to sound more like the prosperity preachers who uses old testament laws for gain-don't you realize the laws of Moses were made in the flesh.

So the book of 1 Corinthians and 2 John where I quoted the directives to you are from the old testament right? as said before, you only see what you want to see, you wunt see scriptures that shows you your doctrine is false, you wunt quote then, neither will you explain them. I wonder where I quoted the law of moses concerning expelling someone from the Christian congregation.

Romans 7:5 "For when we in the realm of the flesh the simple passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so we bore fruit of death.
Galatians 3:10 "For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written, cursed is everybody who does not continual to do everything written in the book of the law.
Galatians 2:16 "Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:2-3 "Because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life have set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did be sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. So He condemned sin in the flesh.
Yes He took away that old fleshly law. Two new laws were given love thus God with all your heart soul and mind, and love your neighbour as yourselves.

another diversionary tactic. It does not tell how your church deal with one who fornicates and does not repent.

You are quick to call me a liar, but you haven't produced any evidence yourself, does this mean you can't get your hands on the 1981 issue And you want me to prove the evidence for you.

haha, you've just shown us you can't post the content of that Watchtower on these thread, cus you dnt want people to examine it with the lies you stated in your post.
It is one who wants to show that a book contains something that will provide the contents of the book to show that what he or she is saying is true, but you can't do that as doing so will show you lied. imagine , wanting me to proviDe proof of words I said does not exist.

A very important part of that page of the Watchtower was posted to you, but you can't see it as usual, if you saw it , you wunt say I did not provide evidence.

Is it the case JW's aren't allowed to read up any other doctrines other then the Watchtowers Mags. Why is that? Is it because even you yourself may find some hidden secrets the Church don't want you to see, and the truth will set you free. Satan wouldn't want that to happen, why would he.

you are of those that will read books made by followers of those that don't serve God cus you are looking for hidden secrets. you try to change the topic to issues of the watchtower cus you can't agree with the numerous scriptures I've been quoting for you so far. You complain it's from the Watchtower, I told you its from the scriptures, you now shifted and say it's from the NWT , I decided to quote some specific verses from the KJv, even went further to quote from the two translations, but yet you will not see it, you will not read from the scriptures you claim to follow.

brocab:
Does not Revelation 1:1-8 "tell you who Jehovah God is?

yes it does! and I'm astounded by your refusal to accept it! in verse one it tells that God gave the Revelation to jesus, this blatantly shows that Jesus is not that God refered to in verse one.
verse six now makes it clear that Jesus HAS A GOD,(the same one who gave him the revelation), that same God is jesus father. Jesus has on several occasions refered to this God as his God! also telling disciples that that God is also their God! , the God that sent him, THE ONLY TRUE GOD!, his father!. We found out that this God said he is the God of jesus(heb 1:9).
These God's name is Jehovah and superior to jesus, therefore these God is THE ALMIGHTY GOD.!

brocab, if you think I'm wrong, tell us who Jehovah is, if you fail to do so , it shows you dnt know the one who gave jesus the Revelation. remember John 17:1 to 3? know Jehovah if you want to gain evalasting life brocab.

This can be confusing and it all go's back to the mystery of the trinity, when Jesus was on the cross, He quoted Psalms 22 "Matthew 27:46 "Mark 15:34 "This was a psalm of David, but it was a Messianic prophesy as well.

It can be confusing to you and to those who want to twist the scriptures and ascribe to it things not found there.

listing scripture verses without quoting it or explaining it wunt help you. For your benefit, and for others to know you dnt tell the truth, i will quote those scriptures and show you what it means.

Matthew 27: 43,46,54
King James Version
He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

now who did the these people say Jesus called himself? almighty God? Jehovah? The answers are no! they said Jesus called himself the son of God! The son of the one he cried out to in a loud voice.

The words in Matthew and that of Psalms 22 help us to know the God jesus cried out to.

Psalms 22: 1,8 ,19
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you far from saving me, Far from my cries of anguish?
“HE ENTRUSTED HIMSELF TO JEHOVAH. Let Him rescue him! Let Him save him, for he is so dear to Him!”
But you, O JEHOVAH, do not remain far away. You are my strength; hurry to help me.
Therefore, the God jesus cried out to, the one he called his God ,is Jehovah and not trinity.!

The entire psalm contains remarkable predictions by David concerning the coming Messiah. So one of the reasons He called God My God, was to fulfil the prophesy of the psalm.

verry funny, how did Jesus fulfil the prophecy, by saying what was said in the prophecy?

And as we all know, the prophesies have to be fulfilled, I suppose when we ever make it to heaven, we will see it all.
You don't believe God and Jesus are One-you can't understand no-one has seen God at any time, and you have made God into a man made of flesh and blood, and you don't believe Jesus is that man, by the bible's description, Jesus died,, and was made is alive forevermore. And He is the one returning back to earth raising His people to meet Him in the clouds. Jesus the Almighty-your bible calls Him Jehovah God.

you are far off from the truth brocab, and derived analogy wunt help you. They are one does not mean they are the same person as explained to you several times.
Jesus is not the almighty God as Jehovah is superior to him. You can now see that the fact that you can't tell us if jesus is Jehovah is because the answer will show the world that your doctrines are false.

What the flesh don't know' the flesh will never understand, but if you were Spirit filled-you would know the Spirit. But because these arguments of yours are not of the Spirit-then you are speaking in the flesh, and flesh can only act upon what the flesh knows.
"
So until you receive the Spirit of God and understand the scriptures, your argument will always travel around in circles.

you that have the spirit, please tell us if jesus is same person as the father, if jesus is same person as Jehovah and if jesus is same person person as the one who told him to sit on the right side.

brocab:
So your answer is you don't know who's coming back?

clear the screen first and you will see clearly who is coming. first tell us if jesus is same person as Jehovah or if jesus is same person as the father or if jesus is the same person as one sitted on the throne who told Jesus to sit at his right side. clearing that one away first will help you to understand who is coming. your refusal to share that information shows who you really are, someone who jumps from issues to issues, looking for perceived faults without neccessarily ready to offer solutions.

brocab:
Then you need to ask yourself who is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning to the end, the first and the last, and ask yourself' which of the two are coming back for His people. {Jesus or Jehovah God, the scriptures does say One of them are coming back?}
Once you asked yourself that-you maybe on the road to glory?

can you see how confusing you are and how much you have confused yourself on these issues? you have tried linking jesus with Jehovah and now you are saying " one of them".

stating if jesus is Jehovah God or if they are two seperate persons will help you to understand who is coming. state your views on that first and everything will fall into place.

brocab:
New World Translation the Jehovah Witnesses bible. Revelation 1:7-8 "Look He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, and those who pierce Him; and all the tribes of the earth, will beat themselves with grief because of Him. "Yes Amen"
I am the Alpha and the Omega say's Jehovah God, the One who Is the One who was and who Is Coming.
So you see-this is talking about Christ, and what teachings you receive from the Watchtower, you are actually denying the power of the word of God, your own bible say's in John 1:18 "No-man has seen God at any time.
So if no-one had seen God at any time, then who else is coming back' this leaves Christ the almighty?

you have a lot to learn, what you are searching for will not help you understand what the scriptures says.
your refusal to tell us if jesus is same person as the father or if jesus is same person as Jehovah or if jesus is the same person as the one who gave him instructions to sit at his right hand will continue to affect your understanding of what the book of rev chapter one is saying.
rev 1:1 to 6 have already seperated jesus from the almighty God, yet you are desperate to link verse 7 and 8 together as talking about one person.

If you truly understand verse 7 and 8, why do you then refuse to understand verse one to 6 or explain what is written there? Your answer lies in your refusal to understand what the scriptures says in favour of your false doctrines.
ones you sit down and explain to every one what the preceeding verses 1 to 6 says, then you will know the truth.

brocab:
Sin is everywhere-either in a Church or elsewhere.

we are talking about sins that the scriptures recommended expulsion for. The sin committed and the attitude of the sinner towards the sin committed are important. The scriptures is explicit on the process, not only giving instructions but also giving examples of how such instructions had been carried out from the time of Adam till now. You can break those rules cus of sentiments, but Jehovahs witnesses will not, cus its a safeguard!
cus sin is everywhere does not mean it should be condoned brocab.

In many Churches, if one man woman or child refuses to have respect for the Church they are attending, yes one can ask them to be removed. But they are not condemned for eternity, they can either go else where to fellowship within the Church guild lines, or don't go at all.

that's the difference between a true congregation and a divided one.
does moving to a new church remove the sin committed in the former church?NO!
The branches of the church should be under one body with same guidelines.

no human now can condemn anybody for eternity, it is not a Scriptural guideline and Jehovahs withnesses dnt do it. A Christian already knows he wunt gain evalasting life if he is a fornicator, he does not need to be expelled to know that. But he also knows that if he changes his ways he can gain evalasting life.

We just see it as the man's going through a rough time.

tell us pls, what did moses tell the isrealites as regards sinners among them(by sinners , I mean those who sin continously such as fornicators and adulterers and drunkards).
pls tell us, what does the scripture say we should do to those who commit such sins in the Christian congregation.
you have so far failed woefully in telling us what the word of God say we should do to such ones. not following divine instructions will only give the devil a leeway into the congregation brocad, follow Scriptural directive and do not lean on your own understanding. trust in Jehovah and do not let sentiments affect your understanding.(proverbs chapter 3)

This is the differences we have, I have been to Churches myself, and I didn't like it's structure, still a Christian I ended up leaving that Church and going to the next,

the same church with different branches or a different church with different doctrines and process.? pls be specific. and pls be confident enough to mention the name of the church!

but you in the other hand' don't treat it the way we do, you condemn a man completely out of all the JW's organizations.

we dnt do it the way you do cus we prefer to follow Scriptural directives(as shown you in previous post)rather than follow man made opinions.
Jehovahs withnesses dnt have organizations, they have only one orginization, get it?
you condemn yourself by not repenting from the sins you are committing!

Which can course fiction between a husband and a wife, most end up leaving each other, because of the down fall, the Church helps to destroy.

do not let sentiments affect your judgements, the scriptures says "do not associate with sinners". you brocab, will associate with an armed robber if she is your wife!

The church will not lose its lampstand because of an individual who wants to use sentiments to remain in the congregation and continue to practise sin!

Matthew 18:21 "Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, Lord how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? up to Seven times. Jesus said to Him, I do not say to you, up to seven times, But up to seventy times seven.

are you serious at all brocab? or you simply dnt know or understand the topic you are bringing on. How does your committing fornication relate to sinning against me?!

I have met many X JW's many have lost their families because of your organization. You have torn them apart spilt up husbands and wife's, Children, because you believe they are unevenly yoke, and because one doesn't believe in your cult, they are condemned for eternity.

you are a liar brocad, being expelled does not mean your marriage will be dissolved. If you are unevenly yoked, you are still yoked, that yoking will be respected and observed by all, and can only be broken through an act of adultery by one of the partners.

Most times when you use the letter "i", you next statement will probably be a lie cus you feel no one can investigate it.

This information is even written in your own manuscripts {Watchtower 1981 Sep 15 P 22}
Who's lying now?

brocab, you are a liar!, bet you where told to just post the Watchtower and you did not read it! cus if you have done so , you would not have referred to it. Probably you where thinking people wunt look for it to read cus it was published in 1981.

A part of that page shows your post as lies:[b]"Since his being disfellowshipped does not sever the family ties, normal day-to-day family activities and dealings may continue."[b].
If you truly want people to know you are not lying, pls post what is in that page of that Watchtower and tell us if their understanding of the scriptures they put their is wrong.

JMAN05:
You do have patience for people like that. Though others might benefit frm ur comments sha, nt jst him.

How are u man? If u have time u hala me for my email. Want us to discuss something.

my reply to him is not for him to read, but for others to see who he really is.
I'll try and mail you soon

brocab:
They are called such names only because they left your Church-Believe it or not they found Christ to His fullest, leaving you behind.

you are lying!, they do not call anyone names. Being expelled is not a public thing, you will only be disfellowshipped if it's proven that you deliberately commit those sins and show no signs of Repentance. stop lying brocab, it does not help!
you say you read the bible, yet you dnt know the process of expelling a deliberate wrongdoer from the congregation. I can bet your church allows every form of Sin, if not, pls tell us what your church does to someone that is a fornicator! If you can't ,then leave those who follow the scriptures guidelines alone.!

If they truly found Christ, they should be happy they where expelled right? But that's not the case as they keep on ranting ang complaining about why and how they where expelled! most cant even mention the church they attend to find their Christ.

brocab:
He is the Almighty God even your bible backs it up.

that's a lie, and that's why you can't tell if jesus is same person as the father or if jesus is same person as Jehovah. Jehovah is the almighty God, the supreme being who told Jesus to sit at his right side, the God of Jesus! heb 1:9

brocab:
So if you believe these scriptures are false then why does your bible write them?

never said the scriptures where false, it is your teachings which is as a result of a deliberate wrong understanding of the scriptures and a deliberate refusal to read and accept what the scriptures I quoted says are what I said to be false.

Who is the Alpha and the Omega-who is the beginning and the end, who is the first and the last, who was dead and now alive forevermore. Jesus Jehovah God.

false teachings, no wonder you could not answer if jesus is Jehovah or if jesus is also the father!

I have plenty more scriptures, that proves Jesus is God, and they are all written in the NWT bible.

thought that you are Tryin to prove that Jesus is the almighty God!

brocab:
So why does Jehovah Witnesses turn their backs on others?

who are "others"?

You have used scriptures such as these, to back up your theory, but yet none of them do.

non of them do what!!!?
good you agree that their actions have Scriptural backings, they are not theories!

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 "do not keep company with fornicators, drunkards, Idolaters, etc..
You have judged and condemned these people, automatically you have called them out to be Criminals.

1 cor 5:12
King James Version
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

And the sad thing, without reason, you have twisted these scriptures around to make your theory sound your Church does not condemn-meaning to say they are not worthy to be with anybody other then the Jehovah Witnesses organization. {Talk about mind control}

without reason? I gave you two with Scriptural backing, guess you did not see it as usual.
you think I twisted the scriptures(even when I quoted straight from the KJv)and yet(as usual) you refused to tell us your understanding of what the scriptures I quoted is saying.

I can understand why people leave Churches such as yours, it proves you do separate families, and if a man Woman Child, does decide to leave your Church for what reason? Condemnation had already began.

good you understand why they expell unrepentant sinners from their midst.
sentiments are not to considered when keeping Jehovahs organization clean!
bet you would have complained and say God is causing family division if your brother, son or parent had been one of the 23 thousand(1 cor 10:28)

Using scriptures such as these-without reasoning, innocent Christian people are called fornicators, drunkards, and Idolaters.

are fornicators, drunkards and Idolaters innocent in your own eyes? are you saying they should shun Scriptural injunctions on how the congregation handle such one among them?

now can you add reason to your understanding of the scriptures and tell us how such ones should be handled?(I'm betting you can't do that)

2 John 10:11 "If anyone comes to you and do not bring this doctrine, then don't let him into your house.
But the Jehovah Witnesses are always bringing in the Watchtower doctrines to peoples homes. {Jesus did say' don't let anybody into your house, who brings the wrong doctrine} So what does the JW's do, they bring in Watchtower magazines,{Wrong doctrine} expecting people to read them rather then the word of God.

What are this doctrines?, verse 3 of that same john says:
Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

so if you bring a different doctrine other than the fact that Jesus is the son of the father, for example saying that Jesus is Jehovah, I will not accept you.
does the doctrine that that Jehovah’s withnesses bring to your doorstep align with what John was talking about? yes! , so it is not wrong doctrine.
I've been quoting from the word of God since and not the Watchtower, Jehovah witnesses do not tell you not to read the scriptures rather they encourage you to so, they are always with a bible when you see them at your doorstep, therefore your accusation is both mischievous and false!.

Again X JW's who no-longer believe in your doctrine, after given their testimony's God Himself had called them out of your Church, and it shows you have condemn them' calling them names, fornicators drunkards etc.. Only because Jesus had revealed Himself to them, And they are living for Christ, and not living for your organization.

brocab, no one calls anyone names, a fornicator is a fornicator, if he or she did not commit the sin with good evidence to show it, he or she will not be expelled. and that same person will be warmly welcomed back if he or she is truly repentant.

You really believe the Jehovah Witnesses hold the keys to the hidden secrets of God, and everybody who don't belong are already condemned.

pls tell me just one organization that you think does the will of God as directed by the scriptures.? If you can't, then you have answered your question yourself.

Jehovahs witnesses have proven over time, that no matter who you are, be it a superstar or the richest man, you will be expelled if you deliberately commit sin and show no sign of Repentance!

brocab:
The New World Translation and the King James bibles, both hold the keys to the truth who Christ really is, "God".
But because you choose not to believe, your own condemnation had already began.
KJ>Revelation 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, say's the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come the ALMIGHTY.
NWT>Revelation 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, say's Jehovah God, the one who is and who was and who is coming the ALMIGHTY.

the fear of knowing that one's doctrines are false will not make you examine the scriptures I quoted for you to read. If you have read those scriptures, you would have known who jesus is. But you dnt want the scriptures to tell you who jesus is, you want to devise and create your own jesus using false statement and wrongly understood scripture.
you quoted rev 1:8 (While abandoning the previous verses on jesus), did you see the name "jesus" mentioned therein?.
your thinking that two people are automatically the same person just because they used the same title is a totally wrong analogy. its used by those who are trying to ascribe a false doctrine into the scriptures through derived analogy, these is despite the fact that the scriptures has specifically mentioned in numerous places the relationship between the one seated on the throne and his servant jesus.

If God and Jesus are two separate people-why then does both exalt the same name? The scriptures tells us, Jesus is the Almighty Jehovah God coming back down through the clouds, like both bibles had describe Him "He will.

the above is false. Jesus is not Jehovah.!

NWT>Revelation 1:17-18 "When I saw Him I fell dead at His feet, And He laid His right hand on Me, and said, do not be afraid I am the first and the last, and the living one. and I became dead "but look, I am living forever and ever. And I have the keys of death and of the grave.
KJ> Revelation 1:17-18 "And when I saw Him I fell at His feet as dead, But He laid His right hand on me, Do not be afraid I am the first and the last,I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore Amen. I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
So you see, these both bibles are talking about one God Jesus Christ who is coming in the clouds.

false teachings!

So don't have ago to me, I am only writing what your bible say's, all you need to do, is read your bible time to time and understand the bloody thing. And if you are still convinced your bible has misprints, then you need to take it up with the Watchtower who misprinted your beliefs.
As I said your condemnation had already began.

you will always not understand the scriptures as long as you refuse to see what it tells you, as you only want to see what you believe in. I only use the scriptures in replying your post not because of you, cus I know you wunt read them, but because of others who want to know the truth.
you say I'm condemned, that's not according to John 17:1-3.
brocab, go and have knowledge about the only true God,Jehovah, and the one he sent, Jesus christ.

brocab:
After reading Realcash 224 page I had looked into it myself-about the wedlock in Realcash 224 organization, as written he/she is a Jehovah Witness since 1997.
And this is what I have found that's interesting and backs up Realcash 224 page.
For every 100 Jehovah Witnesses, more than "1" is disfellowshipped each year, out of 70.000. Two out of every 3 are never reinstated. Being disfellowshipped can result in serious emotional side effects because those that continual to believe Watchtower doctrine are told whilst disfellowshipped they are condemned to everlasting distraction, those who become unbelievers, with no intention of returning to the Watchtower society, realise they are unlikely to freely associate with Witnesses family and friends for the remainder of their lives.
The Watchtower explains-"Thus disfellowshipping" is what the Jehovah Witnesses appropriately call the expelling and subsequent shunning of such as unrepentant wrong doer. {Watchtower 1981 Sep 15 p 22} A simple hello to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversion and maybe even a fellowship, Would we want to take that fist step with a disfellowshipped person? {Watchtower 1981 Sep 15 p 25}

here is another one.
If you read the scriptures, you would not have brought these up.

rev 2:5
King James Version
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

brocab, Jehovahs witnesses dnt want their candlestick removed!

1 cor 5:5,6
King James Version
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

brocab, bad things when not nipped in the bud quickly can affect the whole congregation!
little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough.

If you read the scriptures, you must have come across these verses.

1 cor 5:9-13
King James Version
[b]I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

1Co 6:9,10
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

2Th 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

2Th 3:14
And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

2 Johnverse 10,11
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.[/b]

If you read the scriptures, you wunt be talking about people expelled and how they are treated. Jehovahs witnesses always strive to keep the congregation clean in the eyes of Jehovah, despite their imperfect state. compare their actions with that of other churches who will not expell someone because he is rich and contributes money to the church.

Jehovahs witnesses warmly welcome back an individual who have shown genuine repentance and has made effort to leave his or her bad ways!

brocab:
I was reading your page, which I found quite interesting and I would like to ask you about your Quote>.3. Any member who engage in any sexual intercourse outside the wedlock will be expelled.
So does this mean-if you had decided to Join up with the JW's at the beginning and you were married with children outside your church-under JW's rules you would have to leave your love ones behind?

no, marriages are not determined by the location or religious preference of the people, but by those who got married.

Or lets say if you and your family joined up with you, and they decided they cant handle the JW's any-longer-and found the truth about Christ else where, what happens then-does this mean you would have to divorce them, because you couldn't engage in any sexual intercourse outside the wedlock of your church

the answer is no, you are still legally married even though you are no more part of the organization. There is nothing like wedlock of the church in Jehovahs witneses. its a religious power used by the churches of christendom to determine if a marriage is acceptable to them or not.