₦airaland Forum

When two elephants fight. . .

Just like in d movies!

Incompetent NEMA is chasing cameramen/mediamen/pressmen away from d scene. So we don't see there mediocrity in emergency situations like this

We need plenty of blood at the national hospital abuja! Donors pls help

Our govt will promise that d perpetrators will be brought, when will they be found and made to pay?

What is all this now? People are bent on discrediting this nation at all cost. Unfortunate!!!

Link to Reuters update: http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL5E7JQ1D220110826

Liverpooool!!! what a birthday present! Thanks for celebrating my B.day.

Ok now. . . a very late insurance goal. three POINTS at emirates! Fab will be crying for his Arsenal from Camp Nuo Let's wait for d next opponents. Congrats guys

Up Liverpoool. Never walk alone especially now that Arsenal is as strong as QPR and Swansea! Good start to d first 3 points.

His words, “it has been brought to our notice that an online website is alleging that Dr Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, the Coordinating Minister for the Economy and Minister of Finance, has resigned her position.

Of course, websites work better online

But that was meant to be a simple joke! What's hapnin in dis country? Y is everyone sooo serious without achievin a thing? We all need all d dozes of laughter we can get in dis very worrisome country.

IBB and OBJ. . .are they truly fighting. . .or just making headlines? This is shameful!

Accounts vary over what has led to her premature resignation just days after resuming in her new role but the president’s spokesman, Mr Reuben Abati, is expected to release a press statement blaming it on General Buhari and the CPC party.

This is wickedly funny!  

Oputa Panel Report. . .swept under d carpet
Elumelu Power Probe Panel Report. . .swept under d carpet
Uwais Panel Report. . .swept under d carpet
Committee Report on Jos Crises. . .swept under d carpet
Post Election Violence Committee Report. . .to be swept under d carpet
Report of d Boko Haram Fact-finding Committee. . .soon to be swept under d carpet
Senate Probe on Privatisation. . .soon to be swept under d carpet
This latest committee will surely watch as it's recommendations are swept under d same carpet.

. . .and I ask, How large is dis carpet? Whose carpet is this? How much debris can dis carpet take?

Sun of god:
Ok - Mikel Dont Pay.

Play games with the kidnappers,

Wait for the federal govt to intervene,

Haggle with the kidnappers,

Call their bluff,

And start making burial arrangements for your papa.

silly Boy - Pay up and get your father his freedom back.

It seems your stinginess is the reason the old man is still working.

When you should have been seeing that he could retire once you hit the big time.

Useless Son,

Guy, u talk like payin even more than they demanded guarantees the life and safety of d old man. The truth is that it doesn't. They may collect d money and send u d corpse by water mail. We shud know dat d motive behind d abduction may not be just money. . .it may be beef.

Come to think of it, no be Naija Police talk say "the man was not kidnapped; he is just missing"?

His mother has denied this piece of news.

The mother of Chelsea midfielder, J ohn Mikel Obi, Mrs. Rose Obi, whose husband was kidnapped last Friday, yesterday denied reports that his kidnappers have established contact with the family.

Mrs. Obi who spoke to LEADERSHIP last night on phone said that it was only the car, a Mercedes Benz, that was recovered somewhere around Kwall Falls, in Riyom Local Government Area of Plateau State.

She said that, “we have not been contacted and as such we don’t know his present location.

She further stressed that, “as I told you, we have only recovered the car through the assistance of somebody who saw it and reported to us.”

http://www.talkofnaija.com/News/newsdetailsone.aspx?NewsId=C342894C-3AAD-4941-A9A8-ECCB1E3383A5

But there is an element of truth there (d news) after all the nappers will warn u never to tell anyone abt it.

GEJ had no shoes growing up. . .now as a president, he has uncountable pairs of shoes, many wrist watches and cars. Obi had many pairs of shoe as a young man (my joke). . .now as a governor, he has only a pair of black shoes, one wrist watch and a 504 Peugeot car. Y are they reversing each other's record?

^^^This is what I call running around in a circle. Yes I said assuming I took ur advice. It does not mean I never knew that or heard that there was a problem with it b4 posting the topic. In ur mind there was no privatisation but the govt tells u there was and u need to wake up to it. If 2007 election was rigged, does it mean there was no election in Nigeria? There was a rigged election!

I don't see how that is privatization if the people are not empowered. Or do you?

Yes I call it ill-practiced privatisation. It is in d books that those coys were privatised and until they are reversed, it is called privatisation. And I still maintain that PRIVATISATION AS DONE in Nigeria was/is a failure.

Good one Kobo! But u advised that I read d dailies and assuming I took your advice, I just discovered that the process leading to its sale was fraught with irregularities and as such it has not been positioned for success. So d govt guarantee for success which u advocated may not be there. We don't have to wait till it dies b4 speaking up. Privatisation shud empower people to fairly buy into or over these coys and d process shud not be skewed to favour some above d laws and their cronies.

EDIT: A little link here http://www.channelstv.com/global/news_details.php?nid=28441&cat=Local

deenee:
I like your tenacious attitude. Well just to let you know, I cannot recall stating my opinion on the subject matter (i.e. whether we have gained  or not from the privatization process) I have only expressed some form of satisfaction directly at kobojunkie for the way she has presented her view on the thread.

Anyway, I think this has increased my interest on the subject matter. Hence, I would like both of us to do this

Pick on government agency that has been 'privatized successfully'  and one that has not

Look at the whole process and see if due diligence has been observed during the course of privatization

Identify what has worked and what hasn't, what are the learning points that we all can pick from the exercise? ( yes I mean all of 'us' because the success or failure of our great country Nigeria is a 'collective responsibility' and who  knows maybe one day one of 'us' could be in a position to change things for good)  

Carry out a comparative analysis using another country that has successfully privatized some of her government holdings ( one example I would recommend is Malaysia because the original blueprint for the privatization process model was copied from them)

Apply this analysis within the Nigerian context highlighting the pros and cons and give your take on the matter.

DEAL?

U sound like u're givin me an assignment . But really that was and is still the aim of d topic! So DEAL!!! But don't just leave it to me. Ajaokuta Steel Company was privatised, we can start from that.

Kobojunkie:
You ask of graduates who were certified by the university only for them to be proven failures in those things, and I answer that is possible BUT You do not conclude before you see the certificate. Nigeria, again, has only recently registered for a course in democracy --- the world KNOWS this last election was about the first to mirror the sentiments of the Nigerian people -- even Nigerians know this. Wait till the certificate is produced before you jump to conclusion then, not before. Cause all I see you attempting here is trying to imply we not send the student to this university(even with the high rate of success that has already been achieved through this) because you are afraid that the student will come out a failure.

This is not true. I am not against privatisation! I am against d way it was/is practiced here vis-a-vis d outcome or its gains/losses to Nigeria.

^^^ @deenee; D approach I used my broda was to identify there was a problem. During the cause of d chat, we (not just me) will state d possible root causes of d problem and then go ahead to proffer solutions for d problem. This I considered ok (and a top to bottom approach) but some users like u, frown at supporting another man's idea (conclusion). . .d innate Naija stubbornness will make u chart what seems to u like a new course while invariably supporting d other man's course and in d end arrive at same destination. Wud u prefer we stopped d talk at d when all agree that privatisation as practised in Nigeria was a failure or when we have identified why it had failed and may be given possible solutions? What verifiable sources do u want and can't get at this point?

brainpulse:
@ Kobojunlie

Your illustration of umbrella in the rain is very POOR. Make a sensible one PLS

I gave Kobo a good answer to d umbrella analogy which she gave 4getin that d man even told me that he used d umbrella very well yet got to my crib wet! Before now, we were told that due process was followed in d sale of those coys. . .is that not akin to judiciously using d umbrella? why did he come home drenched? I also asked about some graduates who were certified by the university only for them to become proven failures in those things they got certifications in.

deenee:
@Kobojunkie, You have just made my day. Like the way you clearly articulated your points from that start, the consistency in flow of thoughts and the presentation of the analogy you have used for this discourse.

Quite often, I bother not to even post a reply because most posters just start threads without any clear evidence to back up their claim whilst contradicting themselves over and over in the process.

God bless you!


P.S On second thoughts, maybe the poster will stop 'shooting himself' in the foot if he edits the topic on this thread and askS a rhetorical question like- WHY HAS PRIVATIZATION NOT WORKED IN THE NIGERIAN CONTEXT?

That's not d best u can offer here. . .contradicting and shooting myself in d foot on dis topic? Maka why? Unfortunately, u just bothered to post a congratulatory reply to Kobojunkie. . .instead of keeping ur cool. All I did was to identify that there was privatisation in Nigeria. That d process was not ideal does not remove d fact that we privatised. I also Identified that Nigeria's version of privatisation failed, or did it succeed? All u can do (if u don't already know) is to ask me how and why it failed or show me how and y u think it a success. As for d tiltle, that I took a position of its failure does not mean that u cannot think it to be a success. U can show me how. . .so d title stays. U can change it to suit ur reasoning in d replies.

^^^ . Thanks but that was not a bad discourse

I may not be a prof on d subject matter but I know d responsiblities of govt in it.

Before you ask of the gains of the scheme, you should ask if you covered all that was necessary to guarantee the success of the scheme. Again, this you have admitted our goverment has failed in.

Again, if you really believe that the first blame goes to me(the user of the umbrella), why then do you continue to fault privatization, given what we know, and you admit, of how it was ADMINISTERED by the previous administrations? How do you expect it to be successful when you admit it was ALL marred with the usual Nigerian practices of bribery and corruption, and nothing for something etc?

The govt has a lot of role to play but playing that role does not guarantee success. . .as there is no absolute guarantee for that. Plus it was d govt that sold d coys and when I fault d process, I blame d govt also. When I fault privatisation as practiced in Nigeria by Nigerians and for Nigerians, those who practiced it will want to justify it and this now brings us to d blame game of who did what and how? This is what we are now seeing at d Senate probe panel.

For crying out loud, democracy is GOVERNMENT for the people, BY THE PEOPLE. . . the only election many even claim was close to being by the people was the recent APRIL ELECTIONS . . .it is almost as if WE JUST STARTED.

Nigeria has only been living within the walls of DEMOCRACY UNIVERSITY but not attending classes or even signing up for the courses, so It makes no sense to attempt to judge the UNIVERSITY at this point since it seems we only recently(in April) actually SIGNED UP for one course in all this. lol

Well, for ur mind! If u ask d UN, UK and ur host country. . .and even Nigeria, they will tell u Naija has been a democracy for 12 years and as such is pursuing further degrees in Democrcy Uni.

I am not making it Look like anything -- please do not confuse your private assumptions with my reality. You FAULTED privatization in your first post. But over and over, you admit that there is a major problem with Government approach(not even with the companies in question). To me, that about puts light on the reasoning behind this thread of yours.

You cannot wholistically appraise/or judge that which you admit has not even been vigorously implemented. How do you do that? That is the first problem with this. How do you judge an umbrella you have not even used according to given directions on how it ought to be used What you are attempting to do here is reporting that microwave do not work, because you put a stainless steel plate and soup inside of it, and instead the microwave blew up. That is ridiculous!

Now u sound like u're telling me to shut up. Can u tell me where i spoke of privatisation and it was not as practiced here? Everything I say is based on d context of how we did and still do it here but the bottomline is that doz coys were sold. . .ownership changed; u can't say there was no privatisation cos it was not well done. In that case we shud just watch them while the continue to progress in error? Asking about the gains of the scheme will make us identify d causes of their failure/success. I am not saying that your arriving at a place drenched is as a result of bad umbrella. . .cos I do not yet know that until u tell me. It may be that u cannot use an umbrella, d wind blew d raindrops into your shade, d wind took d umbrella from u, or u just decided to feel d water. But one thing is sure, I will frown at your wet appearance while holding an umbrella. The first blame goes to u. . .until u tell me to blame d umbrella instead.

WRONG!!!! You cannot do that either because we have NOT WORKED at all either on correctly implementing or establishing democracy in Nigeria. NO WE HAVE NOT!! So you cannot Judge that either!! If your child walks into a university, and then fails to attend classes and walks out of the university after 4 years. Do you blame the University for the loser not being handed a diploma after all those years??

We can't appraise our democratic journey so far cos we have not worked to get it right? Are u joking? What would u then say if ur son and most other students/graduates came home with d diploma showing that they all did very well in school only for them to be incapable of solving d basic problem their curriculum claimed they would solve after graduation? Would u just blame ur child for grasping what d school taught him and leave the school that did not follow d curriculum to d letter?

Kobo u make it look like I am pro govt and u pro private investors in dis discourse but we are saying d same thing in essence. I  made d statement;

I am of d opinion that privatisation has done us more harm than good

not to show that privatisation as a policy is bad but to butress d point that d way it was and is bn  handled in Nigeria is bad and has made us as a people suffer rather than gain from d process. I started what would av led to a wholistic appraisal of commercialisation in Nigeria. Come to think of it, what is the diff between doz in govt and d privatisation bid winners?

Some can take a look at democracy as practiced here and argue that we have suffered more under democratic leadership than military rule. . .d person will den conclude that democracy has given us more pain than gain in Nigeria. Does that really mean democracy gives more pain dan gain, generally? NO!

Promises of infrastructural improvement just for the companies or for d whole Nigeria? And they believed? Was it given as a condition for their start up? How many times will we hear of doz promises?

Kobojunkie:
Here are some simple questions to help you

a) The private entities these companies were sold to --- how were they selected?

b) What was the time frame given for these revivals(considering the government itself failed for decades to make these same companies profitable)?

c) What policies were in place to ENSURE the success of privatization, and how well were these policies implemented)?  In the last 10 years, companies like Coca Cola, PZ, etc. have shifted their manufacturing base from Nigeria to neighboring countries where they can be assured of cheaper sources of such things as power, and raw material. How does a company experience revival while having to tackle the very same issues for which the big ones have had to bail?

d) What is the measure of success  of these projects at this time  -- is it simply in amount of money generated? Number of jobs? What and why?

My point remains that Privatization is not what has failed but the Government's implementation should be where we start looking.  How can we now pretend to record serious GAINS from something we have RELUCTANTLY approached in the last 12 years??

a) D bolded where u quoted me answered that with emphasis on "without due process" Most companies were sold to govt cronies at give-away prices. Some even used d coys' assets as collateral to borrow money to pay d bid price after securing d bid. People have confessed to collecting bribes to influence d sale of coys.

b) If they were not given enough time for d turnaround (by their own calculation), they can easily back out and allow those who consider d timeline suitable to buy d coys. . .and d govt failed for decades cos "it is a bad manager" as they told us.

c) Partly answered as d case of (a) above. The infrastructure issue did not start after but before privatisation. Unilever went to Ghana b4 then Michelin and Dunlop also left but these "investors" felt they cud do it with all d difficulties. . .did they succeed? Were they forced? The policy-inconsistencies have been there but these guys may not put them into consideration. . .who do u blame if bought an accident car for d price of a brand new one just cos u failed to carry out due diligence? or if u bought a property in a flood-prone area? While some coys were divesting in Nigeria, MTN, Econet, Glo and now Etisalat are came in and are doing great.

d) There are many ways to measure success here. I gave a few and expected u to tell me that d ones i mentioned were well covered and also give me the success in many other indices u know they have excelled in. And yes! Amount of money generated from such sales and job creation are major indices of success. We were also told that. They cited egs with d success in telecoms sector yet since NITEL was sold, it is yet to pick up instead we had mass sack from most of the sold coys.

I asked questions based on the fact that many coys have been sold (without due process) to some people who cud not give them d much needed revival. In my own little mind, they process of letting out d coys and not making sure we realise d objective is subject to questioning.

^^^now Kobo, I'm not judging d scheme based on its name but based on its implementation in Nigeria

When this whole privatisation thing started, we heard things like

the govt is not a good businessman. . .d govt is a bad manager. . . empowering d private sector will help revive our ailing coys like NITEL Ajaokuta and increases competition, availablity and value. . .in most countries like USA, d govt is just a regulator; not a player

. Then OBJ created d BPE (Bureau of Public Enterprises) and empowered it to sell govt companies to individuals.

I truly want to know the gains of privatisation in the Nigerian context (from 1999 to 2011). Pls give (in all indices) what Nigeria/Nigerians have gained from the sale of govt companies from OBJ thru GEJ. . .from survival to job creation to profit making. . .etc. I  read in d news that Nigeria realised only N249.5b or $1.6b from privatization from 1999 till date, how many companies were sold and for how much?  What were d asset/liability values of such companies b4 privatisation?

I am of d opinion that privatisation has done us more harm than good. . .what with d startling revelations at d current senate probe! With d way things (went) are going, d BPE will sell all govt shares in coys and end up not having work to do. I dat case I will suggest a change of name. . .Bureau of Private Enterprises (BPE). your views are welcome!

Pukkah:
The quality of your response has shown the kind of person you are and I shall refrain from joining issues with you or dignifying you with a reply.

I never xpcted u to join issues with cos u talk crap! ur type blame govt for everything. If it rains, govt; if it shines, govt. How many people have died in Nigeria since last week and for how many has d govt paid their hospital bills?

In your opinion, Enugu State govt shud leave d burial for d family. . .only then will his poor widow and children be taken good care of? Do u know how much of d man's savings d govt will stop d family from spending by undertaking his burial? your reasoning was poor broda. . .don't get me wrong here.