₦airaland Forum

Qs&As

Questions and answers: What do we know so far about the Dubai assassination?

Q. What exactly happened to Mahmoud al-Mabhouh?

A. When the Hamas militant arrived in Dubai, he may have believed he was there to meet an Iranian arms dealer. Six hours later, he was dead, assassinated after a sophisticated operation involving 18 people. The hit squad had arrived in Dubai the previous day. After tailing Mabhouh from the airport, CCTV footage shows two of the group entering a hotel lift with him; one then followed him to find out in which room he was staying. Shortly afterwards, another operative booked the room opposite for that night. When the target left his room, four men crossed the corridor to break in, while others stood guard in the lobby. Mabhouh returned at 8.24pm; police say he was asphyxiated soon after. His killers left the hotel about 20 minutes later.

Q. Who were the people behind the operation, and why were there so many?

A. One theory suggests that having lured Mabhouh to Dubai on the pretext of an arms sale, the hit squad had expected him to be accompanied by a security team, who would also need to be eliminated. The identities of the assassins remain a mystery. All the passports of the initial batch of 11 suspects have been declared fake. So far seven people living in Israel, including Britons, have said that their identities were stolen, adding fuel to theories that Mossad was behind the assassination. Yesterday the existence of seven more suspects emerged: of those, two are believed to be Palestinian and are in custody; the other five, one of them a woman, used EU passports.

Q. Why would Israel want Mabhouh dead?

A. The Palestinian had admitted to a role in the deaths of two Israeli soldiers in 1989 during the first Intifada, and still played a senior role in Hamas. There has been speculation that he was at the top of a "hit list" of militants believed to be dangerous to Israel. And while the Netanyahu government yesterday said there was no proof that Mossad was behind the assassination, it refused to refute the accusation, citing a "policy of ambiguity". Some commentators in Israel have called for the head of Mossad to resign. The counter-argument is that the Dubai operation appeared too ham-fisted to be the work of Mossad, and that it is instead the work of Israel's enemies seeking to discredit the Netanyahu government.

Q. If firm evidence emerges implicating Israel, what will the consequences be?

A. The potential for diplomatic fall-out is clear, with Gordon Brown demanding an inquiry yesterday into how British passports came to be used. There have been similar concerns voiced in Dublin and Paris. The Dubai authorities are inevitably furious at the idea of the country being used as a staging ground for assassinations. Even Vienna has been dragged in, with the hit squad using pre-paid Austrian mobile phone numbers. Israel is already feeling the international heat after the critical Goldstone report into its conduct during the Gaza war, and will not want its critics to have more ammunition.

Taken from: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/death-in-dubai-the-plot-thickens-1902987.html

It should be noted that these are not confirmed reports, but reports made on claims and possible known information I think.

presido1:
^What he is doing in Dubai matters not at this moment. The hit squad that carried out this hit succeeded in putting some 6 British passport holders in problem as they forged their passport to gain easy entry to Dubai. It has sparked a diplomatic row between Israel and some EU countries.

I know nothing will come out of it as they are all involved.

Off course it matters. It was the reason he got killed in the first place. Did you think he was there for holiday or something?

As for a diplomatic row, there isn't one yet. All the UK government have done is asked the Ambassador of Israel to make comment - I.e if they are behind it or not and as it stand, their [Israeli] foreign ministry already said there is no proof it is them.

shotster50:
This was some kind of low budget assasination. They tried to make it look like it wasnt them.

You clearly know nothing about espionage, spy, assassinations and spy agencies in the world. How can it be low level, when it appears to have been meticulously planned? Dubai authorities are facing an almost dead end - even dubai authorities did not say it is the handiwork of mossad. How can it be low level when it appears about 11 people planed and executed a leader of Hamas? How can it be low level when everyone is talking about if from Abuja to Zimbabwe.

I will tell you what is low level though, the type of assassination carried out by so called "Hired killers" in Nigeria. Those are low level stuff that no one gives a monkey about on the international stage.

MrCrackles:
Nigeria will definitely be at the forefront of fraud and corruption. . . . at this rate!!!

I thought we won the Gold medal several times that we are now official bearer of those titles? In fact, Nigeria comes up in the dictionary when you look up the definition of those words.

pcmecom:
nobody knows who is responsible for the hit on the hamas leader in dubai, mossad is yet to confirm responsibility for the attack

That is correct. Israel foreign ministry already said there is no proof that they are responsible. Having that, since it appears there are no conclusive proof they may get away with such statement [assuming they are responsible]

One thing I have noticed is how no one is talking about how the slain Hamas leader was travelling on a fake passport too. Also unconfirmed reports are suggesting he was in Dubai for an arms deal - i.e buy weapons.

Personally, my view is that if you make yourself an enemy of Israel or become an enemy of the state of Israel, then there are chances that you will get killed one way or the other. Mossad is one of the most brutal, well organised and deadliest spy agency in the world. They have the resources to mount operations like this and have a history of doing so. But as this case stand at the moment there is no single proof to link Israel with this [but some say it bears the hall marks]. For all we know, it could have been the Russian or anyone else who have problem with this Mahmoud guy in question.

texazzpete:
Perhaps it's only the Nigerian group they were able to trace effectively? I mean, how many scammers do you know with any sort of acumen in online security?

Colombians aren't the only ones in the drug trade, but they are now the poster child of drug traffickers. I'm pretty sure when you think organized crime, your mind goes to the italian mafia. So too is Nigeria now the poster child for 419 scams. heck, the name '419' comes from Nigeria!

If you people spent 1/10th the energy you spend on whining on actually going after these 419ers here in Nigeria, this problem will not exist.

Well said.

I owe you a beer when am in Yankee later on this year.

Some people really need to learn to see a bigger picture and not take sides or allow emotions to run through in a debate.

Jairzinho:
The assasination of a palestinian activist !

I suppose even though he was behind the killings of IDF men in the 1980s and behind several coordinated attacks make him an "activist" in your eyes? Please let us call a spade, a spade! At best he is a killer just like those who killed him. The use of wrong words in a sensitive debate can have severe outcome. Just ask those who work as negotiators etc.

Abu-Safwan:
I have no doubt about the Israeli complicity in this saga - they can do more than that. My belief is that whatever the Israel does against the Hamas is a typically an aggressive terrorism; and whatever Hamas does against Israel is a kind of fairly resistant terrorism. So always Israel must be considered as a 'giant guilty. The most surprising thing is the deliberate ignorance of America about the Israeli terrorism in the world. They attacked American USS liberty; they attacked American military installation in Egpyt. in 1954. (http://www.davidduke.com/general/israeli-terrorism-and-sept-11_13.html) JDL had even once arrested preparing another terrorist attack on American Muslim and some organizations; (http://www.mailarchive.com/antinato@topica.com/msg02464.html).

In a debate, it is necessary to put aside emotions and debate with facts instead. If you noticed in my entire post, I never said they are responsible [Unlike the thread made by Jairzinho here : https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-399571.0.html ]

As it stands at the moment, it is all speculation and even Israeli authorities have issued a statement saying their is no single proof to link them to the attack. See link.
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/309705,israel-denies-mossad-behind-hamas-assassination-in-dubai.html

Yet people like you have nothing but personal opinion and beliefs based that they do. Let me employ your logic for a minute. I guess seeing that your location says Kano and you post leans towards pro-Islam, it is okay to ASSUME that you are nothing but a cattle rearer almajiri? After all, it is my opinion and belief. You see, it do not look so good when the tables are turned around now or is it?

With all these Jewish terrorism Israel is still a freedom fighter in the eyes of American leaders; but terrorist in the eyes of American people and the rest of the world. Israel will continue perpetrating its act of political assassination and terrorism all over the world until we raise up against American injustice.

Let us assume for one second here that Mossad is behind the killings. I guess in your eyes it is not acceptable to hunt down and kill an enemy of the state? Read up on the phrase "enemy of the state" [pretty much self explanatory] and tell me if you feel it is okay to kill and not be expected to be killed?

David Duke posted in his website that: "One news article reports “A special Knesset committee finds that “3,000 women are sold each year in Israel’s intimacy industry, in transactions with an annual volume of $1 billion.” Exploitation of intimacy workers includes imprisonment, and other forms of rank coercion.” (There has been recent speculation that Natalee Holloway may have been abducted and sold into intimacy slavery. If this did happen, Israel is a likely destination.)
The Israelis have no real friends. They coerce our politicians through their powerful AIPAC lobby and the threat of bad press from the Jewish-controlled media. All our problems in the Middle East can be traced back to Israel and their treatment of Palestinian natives. The Israelis have killed Americans. They have tricked the US into attacking Muslim nations based on false information. They have one of the biggest intimacy slavery rings in the world. They horribly abuse the natives of Palestine. Israel deserves no allies, least of all the United States" (http://www.davidduke.com/general/our-%e2%80%9cgreat-ally%e2%80%9d-israel_16530.html#more-16530)

No offence, but your post lacks credibility. You quoted a WHITE SUPREMACIST to make a point. I don't know about you, but I am a black person and I will never quote the words of someone who hates my race, think he is better than my race etc in a debate. It will make such person very foolish indeed.

Do you mind rephrasing your all your posts you have direct at me so far.

Well, I read the story and most seem to think it bears the hallmarks of professional killers and possibly sponsored by a well organised group or state. As it stands, most hands are pointing to Israel's mossad. Have a read in the link, it is almost like a movie-type of assassination - Fake passport, spotters, cash only etc.

If the Israeli are really behind this, I think they have cemented their reputation as one of the most organised spy agent in the world. If I am Hamas, I won't want to deal with cold blooded killers like this.

Mahmoud al-Mabhouh took no notice of the two men who joined him in the lift of his hotel in Dubai during the short ride to the second floor on the afternoon of January 20.

One was short and portly with a moustache, the other tall. Dressed in sports gear and carrying tennis rackets, they looked like any other European tourists visiting the Gulf state for some winter sun.

He did not realise that the two men were part of an 11-strong team that had come to kill him. In just over five hours he would be dead.

Stepping out of the lift, al-Mabhouh was escorted to room 230 by a member of staff at the Al Bustan Rotana hotel, near Dubai airport. Unnoticed, the taller man followed him down the corridor, clocking his room number and that of the room opposite, 237. In the hours that followed, room 237 became the staging post for the audacious murder of the senior Hamas official.


Within an hour of al-Mabhouh checking in his killers had established that room 237 was unoccupied and moved in across the hall. By that evening seven of the team were gathered in the room, waiting for their opportunity.

The killers had lain in wait for al-Mabhouh, whom Hamas admits was involved in the killing of two Israeli soldiers in 1989, since the previous night. Flying in from Paris, Frankfurt, Rome and Zurich, the team of ten men and one woman arrived within three hours of each other. The alleged mastermind of the operation, a Frenchman using the name Peter Elvinger, was the last to arrive at 2.30am on January 19. The team dispersed for the night to hotels near the airport and to the Al Bustan Rotana.

The following morning, several members of the team including Elvinger and the Irish woman, whose passport bore the name Gail Folliard, met at a shopping centre to discuss final preparations for the murder. Nothing was left to chance.

Security footage of the killers’ movements during the afternoon, released by police in Dubai yesterday, underlines the professionalism of the operation. The group switched hotels several times and wore disguises including false beards and wigs, while surveillance teams rotated in pairs through the hotel lobby, never hanging around for too long and paying for everything in cash.

Folliard and another member of the party carrying an Irish passport in the name of Kevin Daveron were operating as spotters on the second floor of the hotel when the murder was committed. Both switched hotels that afternoon and dressed smartly to pose as hotel staff. The bald Daveron donned a dark wig and glasses, while Folliard appears to have removed a blonde wig to reveal dark hair.

Throughout the operation, none of the suspects made a direct call to any another. However, Dubai police traced a high volume of calls and text messages between three phones carried by the assassins and four numbers in Austria where a command centre had apparently been established.

To co-ordinate their movements on the ground, the team used discreet, sophisticated short-range communication devices as they tracked their victim.

Al-Mabhouh touched down in Dubai at around 3pm from Damascus to arrange a shipment of weapons to Gaza. Hamas has not explained why one of its senior commanders, a marked man with several assassination attempts against him already, should have arrived alone without any security.

Clearly, though, his mission was compromised long before his arrival in Dubai. The assassination team were waiting for him at the terminal. CCTV footage shows al-Mabhouh passing within metres of one of his killers. As the Hamas commander approaches the taxi rank outside the terminal, a spotter from the team can be seen sidling into shot behind him, speaking on a mobile phone to confirm the Palestinian’s arrival.

Al-Mabhouh checked into the Al Bustan Rotana at 3.25pm with the surveillance team in close attendance. After they followed him to his room, a call was made and Elsinger booked room 237 from the business suite of another hotel. With the trap set, he then booked a flight to Munich via Qatar at 7.30pm that evening, an hour before the killing.

Security footage gives a macabre inevitability to the hours that followed. When al-Mabhouh made a short visit out of the hotel, apparently to meet a contact, the killers moved swiftly into place. Four burly men arrived at room 237.

Whether through good fortune or design, no security camera covered the door to al-Mabhouh’s room and there is no footage of how the team gained entry to the room. Hotel records show that at 8pm an attempt was made to re-programme the lock to his door and Daveron, waiting in the second floor lobby, is seen to distract a hotel guest who appears from the second floor lifts for a few vital seconds to give the killers time to gain access.

When al-Mabhouh returned to the hotel at 8.24pm his killers were in place. Police believe that he was asphyxiated. By 8.46pm, less than 20 minutes after their victim entered the hotel, the four killers are shown leaving the second floor, followed closely by their spotters in room 237. The surveillance team in the hotel lobby also disbands.

Less than two hours later Daveron and Folliard are shown boarding a flight to Paris. Others took flights to Hong Kong and South Africa before doubling back to Europe.

Al-Mabhouh’s body was not found until 1.30pm the following afternoon. His room showed no signs of forced entry. The cause of death was initially believed to be an increase of blood pressure in the brain.

The murder was only uncovered days later, when local security services were told who the victim was. Al-Mabhouh had also been travelling on a false passport.

As an international manhunt began for the 11 suspects yesterday, one particular anomaly in the case remained. Folliard is the only woman named so far, but footage of the final surveillance shows a second woman arriving at the hotel accompanied by a man in a Panama hat and a beard. It is not known whether this woman is one of two Palestinians arrested in Dubai last week in connection with the murder.

As the hunt for the killers begins in earnest and the finger is pointed at Mossad, room 230 remains empty. “Closed for emergency repairs”

There are many other sources reporting the same story, please have a look and let me know what you think. Assuming, Israel was behind this assassination, do you think it is appropriate? Given the fact that the victim was responsible for the killing od some Israeli army and other "terror offences"

Abu-Safwan:
Others know well what I wrote for it is right-based and evidence-informed. I don't mind. You can re-read your post and mine again perhaps you can apprehend.

Who are these others you speak of And what does "right based and evidence informed" means? If I tell you once again that I am struggling to understand your post, you will think I am been deliberate when in actual fact I am trying to understand your point. Never mind as expressing yourself clearly is not your strong point.

Just as a recap what you originally link to is not conclusively saying underground detonation are responsible for earthquake, how ever it is examining a possible link and relation to increased seismic and earthquake like activities with the test carried out then. Also, it stated clearly there are other external factors like the daily seismic activities that occurs naturally may have been a contributing factor.

How one can hold on to that as some sort of proof is beyond me or even attempt to use that to question known facts is just weird.

biina:
At no point did I say a nuclear explosion being sole cause of the earthquake, rather simply said that the statements of the geologist does not rule out such an event catalyzing the quake

I suggest reading the links and watch the videos provided. They cannot be clearer.

You need to know the 'when' and 'what' off the events before you can do a proper analysis of cause and effect. I assume you have heard of the butterfly effect which is at the extreme of the spectrum in chaos theory.

I suppose the people who are experts and presented their own findings clearly do not know what they are talking about? No?

No. They only state that the region was at the risk of experiencing an earthquake. They have said nothing categorical about what triggered it. .

Again go and read the link again. From the top of my head, Haiti lies on a fault plain, so the issue of what causes the earthquake is obvious.

No offense meant, but you dont seem to know much about such things. Wave propagation in any medium is not necessarily permanently disruptivee.g. beating on a table generates sound waves that does not necessarily destroy the table.

Unlike you, I do not pretend to know and sprout non-sense am afraid. For examples, you have stated above that "With resonance, even a small seismic event can result in a major earthquake" and in the same breathe stated that "Wave propagation in any medium is not necessarily permanently disruptive". Yet you left out factors such as amplification, ripple effect, the fact that Haiti is build literally on a fault plain etc. I suppose on one hand you are suggesting and on the other hand saying otherwise. Right, excellent display of how much you know.

left out? I linked to the entire article as a source on the issue of relating nuclear detonation to seismic activities. You are free to reach your own conclusions.

Yes. Your original post in relation to the quoted article was suggesting an underground detonation may be responsible. Yet in the same link provided to support your claim, it did state that one was done without resulting to any earthquake - even in a region prone to one. So your original point is more or less useless and not worth taking up further. That is my point and come to think of it, I am not so sure you read the article in question.

At what? You sound paranoid. Guess you were looking for someone to argue, but sorry I dont have time for a pointless debate with you.

Nice try and trying to suggest it could have been an underground explosion. Remember, you are clearly "more knowledgeable" on this issue. So I guess underground water contamination as a result of Nuclear explosion would be easily detected on analysis should be something that means something to you. No? Here: www.drenet.dnd.ca/BASIS/pcandid/www/engpub/DDW?W">http://pubs-www.drenet.dnd.ca/BASIS/pcandid/www/engpub/DDW?W%3DAUTHOR+%3D+%27Faucher%2C+D.%27%26M%3D2%26K%3D521796%26U%3D1

I suppose challenging each other intellectually is perhaps not your kind of thing? No one is looking to "argue" with you. And as for you stating paranoia, I won't even dignify that with a reply.

I am sticking to the issues at hand. You have posted an inaccurate information - all in the purpose of showing your anti-west views - yet when this informations are pointed out to you, you refuse to acknowledge that (a) your information is wrong and (b) No one side of the argument is worth taking over the other. How that is not sticking to issues at hand is beyond me.

I came, I saw, I conquered and now it is just empty void. WTF are you talking about? Period pain?

biina:
radio active fallout where? the shockwaves will travel well beyond the point of detonation e.g 1000Km, while radioactivity will be more localized (else the whole world would have been contaminated by now).
As long we are not privy to the details of relevant US military operations, it would always be an inconclusive argument which does not make either side right or wrong. The seismologist and geologist have only said that the fault line was ripe for picking, and cannot say if the fruit dropped of its own will or was plucked by an unseen hand.

You are one funny guy. So a nuclear explosion under ground was carried out exactly where? I suspect underground water analysis should be throwing up all sort of contaminants etc.

We do not need to have access to certain information before one can conclude on that the US do not have a hand in what have happened to haiti.  I suppose given your knowledge, you know better than the expert and can paint a picture of suspicion?

The expert have stated [see link I posted] that is an earthquake [and nothing man-made about it]. No?

Further more, you theory of an underground explosion may be flawed. The ripple effect and amplification will leave behind a trail of destruction from the point of detonation. How this will travel 1000 of miles seem shaky to be honest.


You also left this bit out.

One last point. The largest underground thermonuclear tests conducted by the US were detonated in Amchitka at the western end of the Aleutian Islands and the largest of these was the 5 megaton codename Cannikin test which occurred on November 6, 1971. Cannikin had a body wave magnitude of 6.9 and it did not trigger any earthquakes in the seismically active Aleutian Islands.

Nice try Binna.

pcmecom:
I never suggested china and india were western countries, check my previous post for clarification!!!, Its obvious you dont know the stands they took at the summit.

I suggest you read your original post and the subsequent replies I made. You stated it was a conspiracy by western world to prevent or restrict the growth of other nations. I gave you examples of nations that are not western, are developed and amongst those considered as the biggest polluter. That ineffectively showed up and highlighted the flaws in your original point.

why would you result to character assassination? Its a cheap way to get attention, last time I checked issues are made to tackled and not the character of an individual. I have never attacked your character and dont intend to do so. We are civilised, lets act like one. Lets focus on the issue here

I am basing my post on what I see you post. Like I said, I am calling it as it is. You are the one stage and am telling you how are you are acting.

you really think so?

maybe you should watch this clip

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4860344067427439443&ei=VLB5S7eVCZnC-Qb62dDZBw&q=the+great+global+warming+swindle&hl=en#

Again you are not understanding me. I already stated there are good point from both sides. Unlike you, I refuse to take one over the other. Do you not understand this? This is the third time I am saying the same thing now.

The difference between us, is that I provide proof to back up my claim, but u simply attack my character!!!

Refer back to above. My point is to highlight your inaccuracies. Something you are yet to acknowledge. I am not about to debate which evidence as per climate change or global warming is real as both sides have enough evidence and data to argue back and fourth till Jesus come back. Something you do not appear to understand again.

Do you acknowledge that your original post is inaccurate as I have pointed with enough reasons?

pcmecom:
@elrazur

This is a clear case of character assassination, you are yet to come up with  evidence to back up your claim. This is a clear case of denial, and it really beats my imagination. Judging by your comments you seem to be neither here nor there, and that my friend are the hallmarks of someone who doesnt really have "indepth" knowledge of the subject matter. You should strive to take your stands on issues whether its pro or against, it gives your critics an idea of your stands. However, I understand the fact that u may not be able to see my view point, everybody has different views on different issues.

If you mean I am calling it as it is, then yeah assassination I guess. Bottom line is that my observation about your thread and how it seem to be inside the territory of a conspiracy theorist is bang on target. I suppose you need me to post links of thread where you have twisted facts to back up and present an idea you back up? Haiti and the US responsibility comes to mind.

Now back to your claim that the daily mail is not a credible source of information, what about the following

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/monthly_report/sppi_monthly_co2_report_july.html

http://www.ireport.com%252Fdocs%252FDOC-380884&h=28183ff8fda674d5cbd01f0d5a6692ba&ref=share

and to your final comments, what do you think were  the stands of china and india during the copahengen summit? I need you to answer this question!!!

Please, lets try and keep the debate civil. Character assassination is not in our best interest. I trust you will understand

Again hallmarks of someone who will twist issues at hand. My gripe is that your original statement in regards to how the Western world is behind this global warming and climate change malarkey is just inaccurate. Reason? I have stated that there are argument on both sides i.e to suggest it is man-made. I cited the greenhouse effects as one prominent example that appears to back this up. Then on the other hand, I stated that there are probably not enough data to paint a complete picture. These are statement of facts. To present one as a fact over the other is false. I think that is the point I have made to you and you seem to not understand this.

Also while your statements suggested that it is all a conspiracy by the western world, I merely asked you about other nations who are outputting all sort of Green house gases or are the most polluting such as China, India etc. These nation clearly do not fall into definition of "Western world" like you are suggesting. I noted this have gone unanswered and instead like most conspiracy theorist would do, you try to twist the point and ask me about Copenhagen [which is not what I am talking about].


Just to summarise it all. Your original statement is inaccurate. I already gave reasons as to why they are so.
Your constant dig at Western nations about what you perceived as some "master plan" tags you firmly as a conspiracy theorist.
Finally, when it comes to global warming and climate change, there are very good argument from both camps i.e those who think it is man made or just nature. None of these arguments are better than the other and there is no single proof that it is all a plan by the western world like you claimed.

pcmecom:
@elrazur
I think a conspiracy theorist is one who comes up with information without the facts to back it up. On the other hand, in addition to the information I provide on this forum, I always back it up with facts. For example in the link I provided  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html  It showed that scientist in charge of CRU at the UN, did not have sufficent data to back up their claim that global warming is man-made.

Subsequently I provided a chart with showed that the climate has been cooling since the early 2000's. I dont why it is diffcult to comprehend despite that fact the proof is used to back up the claim.

No. You sir are the definition of a Conspiracy theorist. I suppose it is coincidence that your "enlightened" thread seem to have issues with Western world?

What do you call facts? Like I said, you post nothing but factions [a bit of fact mixed with massive lies]. The daily-mail is not the most non-biased source in the UK. Go and check out their head lines and news stories on immigration in the UK. They do nothing but misreport issues or approach it from a sensational point of journalism.

A chart is nothing but a diagram. Anyone can put that together to give credibility. Jeez.

I have told you before, no one really knows. Having said that, there are points on both sides to suggest it may be man-made or nature taking its course. To just starting claiming anything else is just absurd.

and to your final statement

What do you would happen to developing countries(including nigeria) if the proposal at the copahengen summit  is duly implemented?

Again, this have nothing to do with the western world. You really do not know how to debate or present your point I think. Your original point was that it is all a "plan" by western world to stop poorer nations etc from growing or something along those lines. Yet, you ignore people like China, India etc Surely this people are not western world or are they?

Look, it is all well and good for anyone to think something in their head, but it do not necessarily make it a fact or a good point to debate on in a public forum.

Here, drop your need to blame the western world from earthquake in haiti, down to Yar'dua's illness and perhaps you may be able to debate better and people take you serious? Just a thought. But I guess the thought of going against a widely held views is good fun for you.

God ask him to say that? So let me put this straight, he is hearing voices? Okay, but I guess God is all speaking to us all because scientist concluded that hearing voices is almost normal as most people do - but do not necessarily need mental treatment.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5346930.stm

Religion, ignorance, illiteracy and backwardness sumed up in that post.

pcmecom:
A few months ago, I brought this information to this forum, declaring that "global warming" and "climate change" was not man-made, and it was being masterminded by western countries to prevent and restrict the growth of developing countries. I was labelled a conspiracy theorist and anti-western individual. But I guess the truth is beginning to surface.

How does this remove the tag of a conspiracy theorist on you? Majority of your thread are about how the powers of the world are always up to no good and it makes you feel special to think you are a non-conformist with the view held by many isnt? If you ask me, those are hall marks of a classical conspiracy theorist. But, again, carry on. This place will be boring without your *Factions.


*A droplet of fact mixed thing 10 buckets of fiction.


In reply to your original post, I will suggest you read up on it again. The truth of the matter is no one really knows. There are evidence suggesting that it may be man-made and there appears to be evidence to the contrary. For example, the Green house effect is a very good example of how it may be possibly man-made [deforestation springs to mind]. Yet on the other hand, the lack of enough data since the birth of the planet will suggest that we really do not know if this is man-made or not. [other reasons are cited, but am keeping it simple]. In the mean time, if you want to feel special by going against all common sense, please don't let me get in the way.


How this have anything to do with the Western world or powers of the world is beyond me.

So what happened to all those who think UK is the most racist nation and BNP will wipe everybody out? Once again, common sense prevail.

biina:
Both positions may not be mutually exclusive, as an underground detonation may have catalyzed the quake.
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/faq/?categoryID=12&faqID=88

Yeah and no radioactive material fall out? No. Erm Okay. BTW Welcome back.

I just find it ridiculous when people tend to think the US is responsible. Even there are no proof further coming.

Right, did you not say you are NOT a conspiracy theorist? You haven no single proof what so ever that it is man made, yet you appear to be hell bent on posting information that is suggesting the US have a hand and it may have been man-made as per the earthquake [by your persistent linking of the HARPP to the incident]

Again refer back to my original post.

Sorry, I won't keep repeating myself and do not want to keep going round in circles. If you think the US are "probably" responsible or point blank saying it is the US, then that is your view point and at least not the FACT, so yeah we will leave it as that.

pcmecom:
@ elrazur

Good, now that we have established that as a fact, dont you think its possible the US might have used it on haiti?
Personally, I [b]cannot [/b]confirm if the weapon was used on haiti or not, because I do not have sufficient evidence

However since I am aware of the existence of such a weapon, I wont totally dismiss it as a conspiracy theory

Right. On this particular issues, I think most people will prefer we stick to facts.

This is what you are saying, you have no fact or proof that the US is involve or even if it is man-made in anyway, yet you appear to be leaning in the direction that the US may "perhaps" "possibly" involve etc. How does that work?

If US have such weapons, how come it is not used on Iran to at least sink those nuclear sites? No? I think now we are really in the realms of conspiracy theory.

Finally, your facts are distorted. The so called Haarp weapon do not have the power to destroy or have the power out put of the destruction that struck in haiti. No one in this world have that single power. You are just simply trying to put together things that are totally unrelated.

Who denied the existence of such weapon? To claim HARRP is responsible is not factual. Why? Refer back to my original post.

july123:
This dont have anything to do with religion,is just a complete madness of the girl parents.

It is worth mentioning.

Seriously, I think they are just evil. One of their excuse was that one of them watched his dad killed his sister or something when he was young. What a joke.

He is alive again. Negro_Ntns part two is back.

pcmecom:
@elrazur
              You are quite right, you raised a important issue. There are people who claimed there had been warning signs before the earthquake hit and the haitian authorities were duly notified.

However there exist H.A.A.R.P(earthquake weapon) which is also capable of inflicting the same damage as a natural earthquake. Now that my friend is a fact[b][/b] not conspiracy theory. Think about that for a second


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqepZBSVfCA

I see why people will think so. However, there is no one in the world with the kind of power needed to cause that kind of damage. I have stated this point before and I really don't want to be dragged into another lengthy debate back and forth this time.

Have a look around at the foreign section. This debate have been done to death.

Here is what I posted and up till now, no one - especially those claiming it was man-made are yet to come up with any compelling counter-arguments based on fact with this:


"Negro nts and horus, you guys are full of non-sense, and that is me putting it lightly.

For reference purposes, the largest nuclear bomb ever used emitted about 50MT and in comparison, the earthquake that have struck haiti about 100mt equivalent of energy over a period of 30s. This equals to about 1.3 billion gigawatts and to put things into perspective, there is no man-made energy source that is THAT powerful. The total power is almost 1000 times the combined power of every power station in the world. How the heck does that even add up  in your theory

Also the US site you guys made reference to [or chavez and youtube conspiracist mentioned] is almost some hundreds of miles away and only generate 3.6mv of energy. How the heck do they manage to generate such a massive amount of energy than all power stations in the world combined and then send to some country hundreds of miles away without doing any damage in the process of transfer ?   

Once you guys can stop sprouting crap and then give logical explanations and facts, I will start taking you guys serious. "




Read more here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-383522.0.html

From the little skimp reading I did to the above post. I think I spotted a few errors, but I cant be bothered going through it all. But here is onethat caught my attention. As for claims that image was pulled off the web. Oh please give me a break. There is something called "cache" and once a document/image/whatever information makes it to the web, it is almost difficult to remove. Given the fact that loads of people would have either downloaded this images in questions or keep looking for it. Hence it would be in google's severs etc.

Having said that, why should common sense and facts get in the way of conspiracy theory?

Anyone interested in Facts - I said facts- and not conspiracy theory should read this thread here:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-391789.0.html

Anyone who wants further facts can always email the experts on the matter.

It may be worth pointing out that they are Muslims.

That is my contribution for now.

Abu-Safwan:
hopelessly defeated!!!

There is nothing about "defeat" as you seem to think. I made a simple statement asking you to rewrite the jargon you posted and you see that as a defeat? What a joke. I suppose failing to express yourself again is perhaps a form of defeat? Nah wah o.