₦airaland Forum

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most Naija parents would turn to miracle pastors and prayer houses. How many parents have reported their sons who are involved in campus cultism to authorities?

With high level of illiteracy, what do you expect? Besides, what will the authorities do? Are you happy for your kid to be whipped into confession? Or beaten to death by the same authorities?

Katsumoto:
What ever gave you the idea that Babangida is a tough general. The same Babangida that ran and asked his ADC to confront coup plotters and consequently hid in Surulere for a week while Abacha was quelling the coup.

To be a General, one have to have fought a war and command an Army active in war. I am not so sure IBB have any of those. I am sure someone who knows better than me will give out the facts in a minute.

wirinet:
Mr ElRazur, you are allowing you emotions get the better of you. You must have had me confused with another person; me sponsor of apologist posts? now that is a laugh. Please show me where i made apologist posts.

I am somebody who try to understand why we behave the way we do, and i was trying to understand why a young educated man from a privileged family would be involved with suicide bombing. I was the first to suggest that the boy was emotionally and mentally unstable as a result of lack of adequate parental guidance, and some people here disagreed, but his internet postings had proved me right.

I said people take solace in extreme religious obligations when they are unable to cope socially, physically and psychologically with their environment, If you have disagreements with my postulations then say so.

Finally, everybody knows my religious views, it is not hidden.

Emotions? Apparently I have none. Not the type you are suggesting anyway.

Nah wirinet, you have made two posts that have painted you in my opinion as an apologist [The sponsor bit, was just a tongue-in-cheek attempt at humour] and each post I have raised my concern. Please refer to page fifty something of the main thread about the bomber. Heck, here is the link. I made mention of you in my post. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-371719.1536.html


You need to try and understand is coming across as an apologist. Same goes for[b] Binna.[/b] Your alleged need to understand his actions or him as a person appears to be clouding how your views on him. Osama was educated, so are the two doctors who try to drive a jeep filled with a gas cannister and nails into Glasgow airport with a view to cause carnage. All these examples are people who are educated and by today's standard rich. So, terrorism is an ideology that knows no boundry, race, backgrounds etc. How hard is it to understand that? Or is this your excuse of "need to understand" is a deflective move away from the fact that you are coming across as an apologist in my opinion?

As for saying you are the first first to suggest. . . . Erm, it is not a defence and do not alter my view of you. After all, I was the first to suggest he was nervous, hence why he didn't go ahead with the explosion in mid-air. Those that make me a genius? Nah. It is a guess based on simple common sense.

As for you final assertions, I think it is not that clear cut. All I can say is that based on his religious view, he appears conflicted.

Just because everybody know, do not mean that I do. Please tell me are you a Muslim or have affiliations with Islam?

Okay? And? Dude thanks for nothing but offer an opinion. If you don't realise, I know how to look for news online. I do not need you to post one just for the sake of it. Simple common sense.

wirinet:
In a way i feel sorry for this boy. People fail to see that although this boy is 23 years, his mental and social development is that of a 15 year old. Here is a guy who had no social life, probably does not know much about the birds and the bees, and no family support(not financial), and he decides to take solace in religion. A lot of other people are like that including many Christians (i do not mean they are ready to blow up planes), but some people take solace in religious extremism. Some Christians i know make their religion the reason for their whole existence.

This boy's problems are double fold, he was suicidal and he was an extremist. A lot of Arabs that are extremist but not suicidal would commit terrorism but ensure personal safety by using remote devices to blow up planes like the Libyan bomber. But suicidal ones are those that feel discontented with this world and is in need of a better world, promised them by their religion.

Another Terrorist Apologist post. Brought to you by Winiret. [Sponsor of various other apologist post.]

Who are you to give an opinion on his mental age? Please I am keen on knowing your qualifications as a Psychiatrist or similar profession to be able to arrive at such conclusion. Or are you just giving personal views with no basis whatsoever?

I have made comments in another thread about his posting, but I offer an opinion and not try to come across like I know better than people on here, or know something people don't. The bottom line is this based on what he posted so far, it is same to make an assumption that he was in conflict with the modern world and what his religion teaches. Heck, allow me to post a quote of what I said:

If this is him, it at least shows what some of us have known for a long time - Islam does not fit with the modern day. Quite frankly, he is tormented and conflicted within himself. Yes on the outside, he appears to be normal, but on the inside, the desire to be "true" to his religion and at the same time engage in normal activity seem to tearing him apart. The same thing happened to Marvin Gaye.

Another thing here is that he appears to love the same Western world his religion teaching goes against.  Whatever the case, I doubt the court will take these in consideration at all.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-371719.1728.html

Even I put an IF in front of my views and statement, yet it appears that you think to know something we don't. Why the "feel sorry" stance? A you a muslim or have affiliations with Islam in anyway?


Also you appear to be talking some crazy stuff like how some bombers use remote device. . . . Erm wtf is that got to do with the price of tea of Timbuktu?   How long ago was the libyan issue? Tactics have long since evolved my dear.  

PS
You really are a joke. He appeared to have made mentioned that he socialised, yet you come on to claim he had no social life. . . .Or give some comments on how he had no social life etc. . . . Damn. You are good.

Dude why is this not in the on-going thread?  

And thank you for nothing, posting a news link is just plain stupid. We all know how to find the news on the internet. Next time, leave an opinon and POST it in existing thread. Not create a new one. Jeez.

What the heck this have to do with politics? I think it is time I lobby for a position of a tough moderator. FFS. Who gives a shi.t if he cries? Next you will put you thinking caps on and make a thread that Babangida shi.ts too. Jesus wept!

@ Ibro Nine Uno Uno

yes, many of the terrorist things you see in the news are related to Islam.
THAT is a problem we have to resolve together, as a nation, society, community or whatever
calling all muslims terrorists will not help matters AT ALL
this will only cause more conflict.
you should also endeavour to do some research about stuff before coming out and denouncing the religion. please

Omo you may have hit the nail on the head with the first line of your sentence here. Please explain to me as to why Islam appears to have unusually high number of Violence, fear and terrorism? Could this be down to the doctrines of Islam?

I don't know about you, but a religion that have its leader and founder as a Warrior - Not just a spiritual warrior, but the one that actually fought and killed people. . . . Plus the various teachings that appears to suggest violence as a way. . . . Do you not think these may just be one of the many reasons? Just a thought.

Nigerians are not terrorists!, neither ar muslims!
there are always bad eggs everywhere.
you should know that.

Omo your statement above is not entirely correct. For the purpose of this debate, Statics shows that at least ONE [s]oh that is ignoring the bokoharam and the new sect of recent and the issue in niger delta[/s] Nigerian is a terrorist and Majority of terrorist are Muslims. You should KNOW THAT.

another thing that bugs me is the way people close their eyes at many things that happen in this world. things that cause these terrorists to act this way.(NOT that i'm in support of their reactions in anyway. but still, )
i can give a lot of examples
nobody sees what happens in guantanamo bay, iraq, afghanistan, palestine,lebanon, etc??
is the whole world that damn blind?
are you blaming the victims of all these wars,invasions and what-not for celebrating even if they hear the president of america stepped on a pin?
do you know what they have gone through?
we should also look at that.
gosh, the media can emphasize on terrorist attacks, why dont they emphasize on all that

So you did the normal thing most Muslims do in a debate and try to Blame America and/or her allies? Omo, you are brain-washed. The moment you cited various places as examples without looking at the bigger picture, your point became useless.  Allow me to briefly explain.

GTB - A place where those who threatened the very thing America stands for - Peace and Liberty - are locked up. Is America right in doing so? I guess it depends on if you like your freedom or not. I like my freedom, I do not want to be forced to do things as mundane as religious belief been imposed on me.  So on the basis of my view point, America is within her right to lock these fanatics up. Is it the right thing in the moral sense? That is another debate.

Iraq: It is not an Invasion. . . .In a debate, anyone who instantly use the word "invasion" to describe the War in Iraq, it automatically explains their mind set and it is of the type I take with a pinch of salt. To cut a long story short, Iraq defied the laws several times and gave America the chance for her current state. If religion fanatics wants to use this as an excuse. . . . I wonder if they are able to cite passages in Quran to support their actions? I know the US can site various resolution for the justification of the war. . . . Can religion fanatics do the same? If the successfully cite one passage in the Quran that justifies their actions, I guess it is then safe to conclude that Islam and violence of all type goes hand in hand?

Seeing that you are a defender of Islam and a terrorist apologist, I wonder if you can help me and give me passages in Quran that supports what those use situation in Iraq to kill innocent people? [Damn. . . what a water tight argument. . . I would love to see you wriggle out of this one. ]

And same goes for Afghan et al. Oh if I may add, the issue of Palestine have been on going before Islam came to existence and it would carry on when Alien invade earth in 2012.


PS
Much love. Just don't blow me up.

Viaro. Point taken.

An interesting extracts of various entry from someone who appears to be farouk.

According to The Washington Post, federal intelligence officials were reviewing the postings but have not independently confirmed their authenticity. However many of the details, including the fact that he went to a British boarding school in Togo, and that his parents were wealthy Nigerians, match those now known about Mr Abdulmutallab.

The newspaper, which has reviewed the postings reported that farouk 1986 (a combination of his middle name and his birth year) searched for friends online through Facebook and in Islamic chat rooms. In one such posting he wrote: "My name is Umar but you can call me Farouk."

A posting from January 2005, when he was attending boarding school, read: "I have no one to speak too [sic]. No one to consult, no one to support me and I feel depressed and lonely. I do not know what to do. And then I think this loneliness leads me to other problems."

Farouk1986 also wrote about considering applications to US and British universities, including University College London, from where he graduated in June 2008

In a June 2005 posting, when Mr Abdulmutallab is now known to have been in Yemen, farouk1986 wrote that he was in Yemen for a three-month Arabic course, saying that "it is just great" and raving about about the capital's shopping and restaurants, including Pizza Hut and KFC.

As a student at the British boarding school in Togo, Farouk1986 wrote that he was lonely because there were few other Muslims. "I'm active, I socialise with everybody around me, no conflicts, I laugh and joke but not excessively," he wrote in one posting. In the same posting he also wrote about desire and marriage, saying that at 18 he was not yet ready for it.

"The Prophet advised young men to fast if they can't get married but it has not been helping me much and I seriously don't want to wait for years before I get married," he wrote.

He said he had not started searching for prospective partners because of social norms such as having "a degree, a job, a house, etc. before getting married." But, he said, "my parents I know could help me financially should I get married, even though I think they are also not going to be in favour of early marriage."

He also wrote of his "dilemma between liberalism and extremism" as a Muslim. "The Prophet said religion is easy and anyone who tries to overburden themselves will find it hard and will not be able to continue," he wrote in 2005. "So any time I relax, I deviate sometimes and then when I strive hard, I get tired of what I am doing i.e. memorising the quran, etc. How should one put the balance right?"

Later that year he wrote that his parents were visiting him in London and said he was torn about whether he could eat meat with them.

"I am of the view meat not slaughtered by Muslims . . . is haram [forbidden] for consumption unless necessary," he wrote. "My parents are of the view as foreigners, we are allowed to . . . eat any meat. It occured [sic] to me I should not be eating with my parents as they use meat I consider haram. But I fear this might cause division and other complicated family problems."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6970196.ece


If this is him, it at least shows what some of us have known for a long time - Islam does not fit with the modern day. Quite frankly, he is tormented and conflicted within himself. Yes on the outside, he appears to be normal, but on the inside, the desire to be "true" to his religion and at the same time engage in normal activity seem to tearing him apart. The same thing happened to Marvin Gaye.

Another thing here is that he appears to love the same Western world his religion teaching goes against. Whatever the case, I doubt the court will take these in consideration at all.

Viaro, I have made a reply to the other thread. I think I addressed some of the points you raised already. Sorry, I can't keep posting the same thing in-between thread. . . .

An interesting extracts of various entry from someone who appears to be farouk.

According to The Washington Post, federal intelligence officials were reviewing the postings but have not independently confirmed their authenticity. However many of the details, including the fact that he went to a British boarding school in Togo, and that his parents were wealthy Nigerians, match those now known about Mr Abdulmutallab.

The newspaper, which has reviewed the postings reported that farouk 1986 (a combination of his middle name and his birth year) searched for friends online through Facebook and in Islamic chat rooms. In one such posting he wrote: "My name is Umar but you can call me Farouk."

A posting from January 2005, when he was attending boarding school, read: "I have no one to speak too [sic]. No one to consult, no one to support me and I feel depressed and lonely. I do not know what to do. And then I think this loneliness leads me to other problems."

Farouk1986 also wrote about considering applications to US and British universities, including University College London, from where he graduated in June 2008

In a June 2005 posting, when Mr Abdulmutallab is now known to have been in Yemen, farouk1986 wrote that he was in Yemen for a three-month Arabic course, saying that "it is just great" and raving about about the capital's shopping and restaurants, including Pizza Hut and KFC.

As a student at the British boarding school in Togo, Farouk1986 wrote that he was lonely because there were few other Muslims. "I'm active, I socialise with everybody around me, no conflicts, I laugh and joke but not excessively," he wrote in one posting. In the same posting he also wrote about desire and marriage, saying that at 18 he was not yet ready for it.

"The Prophet advised young men to fast if they can't get married but it has not been helping me much and I seriously don't want to wait for years before I get married," he wrote.

He said he had not started searching for prospective partners because of social norms such as having "a degree, a job, a house, etc. before getting married." But, he said, "my parents I know could help me financially should I get married, even though I think they are also not going to be in favour of early marriage."

He also wrote of his "dilemma between liberalism and extremism" as a Muslim. "The Prophet said religion is easy and anyone who tries to overburden themselves will find it hard and will not be able to continue," he wrote in 2005. "So any time I relax, I deviate sometimes and then when I strive hard, I get tired of what I am doing i.e. memorising the quran, etc. How should one put the balance right?"

Later that year he wrote that his parents were visiting him in London and said he was torn about whether he could eat meat with them.

"I am of the view meat not slaughtered by Muslims . . . is haram [forbidden] for consumption unless necessary," he wrote. "My parents are of the view as foreigners, we are allowed to . . . eat any meat. It occured [sic] to me I should not be eating with my parents as they use meat I consider haram. But I fear this might cause division and other complicated family problems."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6970196.ece


If this is him, it at least shows what some of us have known for a long time - Islam does not fit with the modern day. Quite frankly, he is tormented and conflicted within himself. Yes on the outside, he appears to be normal, but on the inside, the desire to be "true" to his religion and at the same time engage in normal activity seem to tearing him apart. The same thing happened to Marvin Gaye.

Another thing here is that he appears to love the same Western world his religion teaching goes against.  Whatever the case, I doubt the court will take these in consideration at all.

Hence why it is wrong for you to imply that christianity implies historical believe in a flat earth . . . considering that you yourself are saying there was a disagreement on the issue.

I won't exactly go all the way and say wrong. During those times, religion was very influential, in fact, Christianity is one of the most influential religion till date. So if the people representing the religion - and have been cited by history books - to teach a flat earth ideology, it is fair to that there is an historical belief in flat earth.

Why did you specifically limit your statement to the Catholic Bible . . .

- Catholics Bible is heretical that much as been shown via historical account . . . hence i think its disingenious of you to use that as a reference. . .

- I do not have access to a catholic bible and i do not care about what it says on this issue cus Catholism is heretic . . . hence trying to defend what catholic bible says is like you asking me to defend what the Mormon Church says . . .

I am not limiting your search to catholic bible. I think you missed my point. I presented a standard passage there appears to suggest a flat earth and then made mention of where it can be found in the catholic bible.

From the previous link I posted, it is clear that at least two different versions and translation of the bible made reference to the "end of the earth".  If you look at one of the version, it dated from 1985 and you will have to take into context what "ends of the earth" meant during the times of the translation. I am of the belief that it supported the notion of a flat earth.


You simply cannot dismiss the various versions, after all, they are word of God or are they not?

Another thing that baffles me is how you are quick to dismiss the catholic bible. I am a non-religious person and I am not sure you see the damage that is doing to your debate - It basically, highlights the differences that people like us see and hence keep away from religion.


Furthermore, if you take a look at the link I posted [citing the differences versions of Daniel 4:11. It will appear that in some cases, the whole text have been rephrased to mean something different, or better still to reflect the modern day language. You know if this is a court of law, that will be tampering with evidence and will do a lot of damage to the credibility case of religion as a whole.

Thank you for insulting my intelligence sir, but I do understand "context" very well.

tdmoggy:
It is wrong to tar all muslims with the brush of extremism, so one must always exercise caution.

However, this suicide bombing phenomena is seems to be predominantly employed by extreme islamic people, or at least people who profess to be conducting Jihad in the name of Allah.

So my questions are,


Does the Quran sanction Jihad, and the use of force to convert and islamise other peoples,

Does the Quran really sanction the stonning of women to death  for adultery, being despoiled etc,

Why is it that Imams and other muslims higher up in the country not really make their voice heard now and openly condemn what this boy has done ?. Could it be that they secretely or tacitly excuse or rationalize this behaviour?


Lets shine the spotlight on islam and really find out if it is the religion of islam, or the pervertion of the religeon of islam. At thi point, I am still of the opinion that islam is a religion of peace, and that it is people that are being perverted. But I am beginning to question this stance, and would like to get some answers from other "knowlegeable" people,

please discuss,

Read here and see the follow on response

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-371719.1664.html


One thing I would say is that Islam is like most religion, it looks good on paper, but it is flawed in practice. Only that many Muslims won't admit that it is flawed.

For example, the Quran states that "There is no religion with abulsion [not sure the right spelling here]" but it means that you cannot force one to take up a religion or force your view on someone. It also states in the Quran that killing of another human is against the will of God. Yet in practice, all these statement appears to be broken on a weekly basis.

Anyway. . ,  . . Read up on those stuff I suggested.

Jairzinho:
@ibro911,please advise why you have 911 on your name? Also can you please explain -  Q'uran 9:5

Dont bother with him. . . . I know him THAT much. lol. I have a feeling he will quote this for you to read. . .

http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/kill_the_infidels.asp

Basically, it is an explanation by Muslims that the text meant something else, it was taken out of context blah blah blah.

This is interesting because the Bible itself implies the Earth is flat (for example at Daniel 4:11 or 4:8 in Catholic Bibles) and most of its writers (certainly those of the Old Testament) probably thought so

Daniell 4:11

What does it say? It appears to suggest the earth is flat.

People can follow the whole debate here. I cant be posting the same things in two places. For those interested, please catch up from page 55.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-371719.1728.html

No2Atheism:
- You raised some valid points [/b]which i am going to take time to check out . . . however next time please do not quote wikipedia, cus in reality, i do not consider it has a credible source.

- This raises the questions as to whether:

  1. A number of people in the church around the time u mentioned were flat earthers or not
  2. Or the whole church around the time u mentioned had a flat earth theology

. . . I am going to have to do my own research before reaching a conclusion on this.

- I have found another source that said the same thing that you have said, hence why i am taking into consideration what you have mentioned, despite your point and statements i still say and i still repeat:


[b]THE BIBLE NEVER SAID THE EARTH WAS FLAT, IF IT DID YOU ARE FREE TO KINDLY SHOW ME.


Hence one might consider if this is a problem of the early church and its dogma or whether this is an issue of historical accuracy of reporting events . . . . . until i do my own research about the issue no comment.

Not to digress, but since the removal of many editors, Wiki credibility is up. Prior to that, it was only found to contain about 33% error than the leading encyclopaedia. . . but that is another story lol.

Here is another source [see below]. Even though it was trying to debunk the statement as a myth, it was forced to admit that some early Christians did preach that the earth was flat.

http://www.bede.org.uk/flatearth.htm

Lactantius was another church father who did seem sure the earth was flat [/b]but no one paid much attention to him either.

As to why no one paid attention to him, for the purpose of my point, that is irrelevant. What matter is that he appears to be one of the early Christians that preached a flat earth.


[b]Also, from that same source, it appears that the bible did suggest that the earth was flat. [it will be interesting to see what you come up with]

This is interesting because the Bible itself implies the Earth is flat (for example at Daniel 4:11 or 4:8 in Catholic Bibles) and most of its writers (certainly those of the Old Testament) probably thought so

"The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth."

New International Version (©1984)


"And the tree became tall and strong, stretching up to heaven, and to be seen from the ends of the earth"

Bible in Basic English

Various version here:
http://bible.cc/daniel/4-11.htm


From the two points you raised above and with the sources provided, it appears that the Church [or representative of the church] did preach a flat earth. It also appears that a few educated people in the church do not agree with a flat earth, and finally, whatever the case are, there is no denying that there wasn't conflict between the church and early science teachings.

Afam:
Good move even if permanent measure as long as it helps in the area of security. Passengers would (or should) be happy to even strip unclothed before boarding a flight if that will prevent one from blowing up a plane mid air.

The problem off course is that people who are hell bent on causing terror, fear and panic will find other ways to carry out their deeds. I am not sure if you heard about the assassinated attempt on a Saudi Prince recently, the sucide bomber was operated upon and the device rigged on his inside. It was later trigger by a phone call. Luckily the intended target survived.

You see, no pat down will detect that, but higher frequency body scanners [similar to how an X-ray machine works] will see through the human body, but it will take time to have this installed in all airports. Also there is the issue of funding and maintenance, plus training of operatives. [Potential health risk as well]

I have no problem with that. They can pat down all they want, if all of these prevent another overzealous bastard from blowing himself up, then so be it.


Kobo, send again am online now.

No2athesimUK

From wiki

Some authors and artists less prominent in the Church's history directly opposed the round Earth.

Diodorus of Tarsus pa christain bishop[ (d. 394) may have argued for a flat Earth based on scriptures; however, Diodorus' opinion on the matter is known to us only by a criticism of it by Photius.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#Early_Christian_Church

And nope, I did not edit wiki to put that. Look the point is there were conflicts in ideollogy between christainity and modern science. Period.

No2atheismUK

From wiki

Some authors and artists less prominent in the Church's history directly opposed the round Earth.

Diodorus of Tarsus pa christain bishop[ (d. 394) may have argued for a flat Earth based on scriptures; however, Diodorus' opinion on the matter is known to us only by a criticism of it by Photius.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#Early_Christian_Church

And nope, I did not edit wiki to put that. Look the point is there were conflicts in ideollogy between christainity and modern science. Period.

Finally, where did I stated I believed it was started in Europe? Yeah I was half asleep, half watching tv last night and half typing here. . . .but am 100% sure that I did not state categorically that it started in Europe. . . .No dey make assumptions jare.

Kobojunkie:
What is your yahoo ID?

On my profile. I'm sure you can "decode" it.

Kobojunkie:
I am on Yahoo,

Oya. . . In the name of Jesus, add me.

Kobo. . . .Long time. Omo are you on YIM or MSN?

ibro911:
i think there is difference between all northerners are narrow and shallow minded and, these (referring to the boko haram) were a bit narrow and shallow-mided. goddamn it. na wa o. looks like some people have problems in reading through posts

Omo, make your post a bit clearer next time. We aint all mind-readers. From the way you put it, it appears you are making a generalisation of the northerners. Period.

oh, not only athiests can be open minded y'know?, people that believe in God arent robots(cos that's what you imply), and yes we think too, we try to be 'open minded'. athiests so dance on the fact that people that believe in God are brainwashed that they forget the fact that they might actually be the brainwashed ones.
and how does quantum theory, quarks and black holes disprove God's existence. even the Big Bang doesnt.it's just the fact that the Big Bang happened to occur by itself that does
and please can we not go into arguing about the whole illiterate sleeping with minor thing?

You are missing the point. Please go back and read my post. It is late night and Family guy is on tv.

PS
Do not bring our personal debate over msn into this.

what you call 'western' knowledge is what God has provided
and who says the world is flat in Islam?

You cannot give credit to God over something that is at logger head with your own religion. . . That is an oxymoron I think.

No one says the world is flat in Islam. You are clearly not understanding my post. Please go back and read it again. I am saying Christian religion and the teachings of the early churches believe that the world was flat, these people weighed enormous influence, so you can imagine the shock it caused when Science came along with facts that it is not flat. . . .That is what am saying, and nope I never said it was Islam. . . Omo go and sleep jare lol.

bidemi12:
@elrazur Cool down bros. no turn am to roforofo fight ooo.

I plan to beat him down with his own bullshit that is all.

ibro911:
come on mehn, you are missing the point. look at science now.
big bang, evolution etc.
are these pro-religion?
do they even make sense?
and if you check my post, you'll see that what i stated was 'part' of western education. not all western education.
and by the way, apart from that, these northerners were a bit shallow and narrow-minded and they believed (and were correct in a way) that the schools tried to stylishly draw muslims into christainity (many missionary schools are in the north both in the past and present)
the meaning of boko in hausa has something to do with deceit.

and btw, Islam (unlike christainity of the past) embraced science. many muslims in the past were scientists. one example, Algebra was invented by a muslim (hence the arabic-ness in the name lol). i can give more examples if you want. see how Islam also embraces education?

What a load of bullocks. What a truck load of idoti.

Here is a translation of what you are saying - You are against thinking outside the box! Look you can't embrace some side of science and then dismiss some part in the name of an ideology like religion. Big bang may not make sense to you, but it makes sense to people who are actually open minded and not just have a restricted thinking due to their religious beliefs.

It is ironic that Quantum theory, Quarks and things like black holes do not make sense to you, but it makes perfect sense that a man who sat in a cave and wrote a book - even though he is recorded as been an illiterate and sleeps with minor. . . . Creates a religion that is apparently the true religion. . . makes complete sense to you? Okay.

The West/Western have done more for the world than your religion have done for mankind. This is something you cannot deny.

Your post does nothing but demonstrate a mentality that blights your typical Muslim/Nigerian. What gives you conclusive proof that those from the north are narrow-minded Or shallow? That in itself is a generalisation and very wrong. I wonder if you will say that if you are from the northern part of Nigeria?

Christianity and Science were at loggerheads due to what the bible teaches and what science observe. For example, the world is flat in religion, while it is a spherical shape in science. As for your religion embracing science, omo don't make me laugh. Algebra was incorporated into Mathematics due to the calculations used by the builders of the time in Arab. This do not necessarily mean Islam embraces science.  After all, by your own admission, Islam disagree with "part of what science teaches" [even though it makes perfect sense]

As for education, it all depends on the type of education we are talking about. If you think not teaching science of all kind, including evolution and NOT letting people make their own mind up when they want, if you think ladies should not go to school and learn. . . .then it is not exactly education or is it?

Also, will [b]Ibro991 [/b]explain "they were against most of the kind of things western educations teaches and how it may alter peoples(or muslims) perception of God or life or whatever."

What kind of things western education teaches? How does it alter the view of people? Ironically enough, you are using western technology to have these debate. Surely, if Bokoharam have their ways, things like this wont be allowed? Your point remind me of the battle between the early churches and alchemist/scientist of the early times.

The churches had the same view and was hell bent on silencing the scientists for questioning and reasoning outside the norm. . . .

Anyway, Ibro explain.

debosky:
It is safe to say that all major Islamic leaders in Nigeria - the emirs and sultans, are the people who compose the SCIA. . .as a result they are speaking with the same voice in that regard and represent the overwhelming majority of Nigerian Muslims. My comment regarding a single body speaking for everyone was simply to highlight the fact that there are deviations from the accepted 'norm', even in religion.

No, it is not safe to make such assumptions.  A quick check on their website reveals little or nothing, and some of the names posted appears to be "commoners"

http://www.islamic-council.org/books.html [right website?]

Again, this 'prominent' figure - be it Emir, Chief Imam, etc, will have little influence on the goings on in a mosque in Kaura Namoda or in Funtua where an extremist, maverick cleric might be the one running things. Very few of the Islamic uprisings have started from the large Islamic groupings in the world - the Indonesians and Indians hold the largest Islamic populations yet you will be hard pressed to see the kind of terrorist militancy found in other Islamic communities.

Traditionally, prominent people ain't called prominent figures for nothing. In places like Nigeria where respect, fear and authority are attributed to them, they can make a difference in the "radicalisation" of individuals. Besides, we have an ingrained culture of where we tend to listen and take on board what prominent figure says instead of a faceless organisation.

A prominent figure can give words that can easily make the public view turn against a radical iman or some "Alufa" down the mosque encouraging terrorism.

Oga, "hard pressed" is not the same as it aint happening.  but yeah I see what you mean.

Yes, but does the Pope speak for all Christians? Are all Christians Catholics? There are Protestants, Evangelicals, Orthodox and so many others. In the same regard, there are Shiite, Sunni, Wahabbi and other variants of Islam out there as well. In each case, no monolithic authority exists that can use it's influence on all adherents.

When he apologised for the role of the Catholics in WW2 or so? You damn right he spoke for those "sect" of Christians and those who feel affiliated with them. The point I am making is that for every sect, there is a leader or prominent person of some kind that if he/she speaks, there is bound to be people from these different sects paying attention. Surely, while we appreciate the differences in Islam, I am sure a prominent figure like an Emir/Sultan/what ever giving a condemnation at this point will be seen in a positive light?

debosky:
It is the highest Islamic body in Nigeria so it carries the corporate weight of the Muslim community in Nigeria.

Dude by your own admissions, you have mentioned that no single body speaks for everyone. . . . And in the same explanation try to push the idea a single entity [of a group] carries such weight? I won't waste much time on this one, but it is clear that such group carries very little influence. Prominent figures like Sultan, Emirs and Islamic scholars that are perceived as a leader, religion-leader and spiritual guide carries more weight than the so call Islamic body.

Like I mentioned earlier, there will be condemnations, but what is more important is what goes on in private and much lower in the mosques and groupings that the individuals spring from.

Agreed. This is the part that translation of things in the quran can either promote islam or put it on a  clash route with others. Having said that, a condemnation from prominent figure goes a long way in influencing people.

I don't know whether all 'religion' can be described as a cult or the other but one thing is sure - human beings will use whatever medium, be it Islam, Christianity, atheism - take your pick, to carry out hateful crimes. All they often do is use these belief systems as a justification for their pre-determined evil actions. This however, does not take away the patently violent teachings that exist within Islam.

Again I partly agree on this one, especially the last bit about violent teachings. As for the issue of cult and religion, I am of the belief that the similarities between both are enough to make them the same. It is just like how Non-major religion are referred to as Paganism etc, when it actual fact, they bear the hallmarks of a religion in the first place, but that is another debate for another time.

The debates there quickly get out of hand and descend into threats, name calling and do not lead to any useful elucidation of the matters at hand. After frequent efforts to try to moderate those discussions alongside other religious talk, the decision was made to make a separate section for Islam. Threads perceived to be going down the paths previously seen are locked up to prevent a breakdown of civility.

Dude. You know how I am direct with my approach, I have made thread trying to clarify issues like Violence, Muhammad's sex with an under-age, the teachings of the quran when it comes to issuing fatua etc. . . But all get locked down. Why really is the logic? If the people over at the Islamic section are up for a clean debate, I am more than happy to ask those questions again.

There can never be a single body to speak for everyone - that is why there are so many splinter groups and separate views to be found in general.

The For the purpose of this debate, you will find that the Pope and vatican city speaks for the One billion plus Catholics on several issues.

Roliks09

Where are these cleric before BokoHaram striked? What weight does a bunch of muslims on Nairaland carries? Just questions that are obvious. It is all good, to try and claim a moral high ground and talk about knowledge and what not. Like I said before, there is a perception that Islam encourages violence and terrorism or is this not true? And like I said before people like Osama, Bokoharam et al read the same Quran as you. Why the love for violence? This is something that needs to be addressed.

Further more on the condemnation made my so called Muslims here, can you imagine the massive difference it will make if someone who is prominent and well known comes out to make a public condemnation, surely this perception will slowly start to fade away.

No offence, but your post is coming across as one of the reasons why people have these reinforced view, you haven't addressed anything but instead try to come across as saying "oh grab the quran and read and be knowledgeable" Jeez, surely, I can debate how is Islam is perceived without having to read some book written specifically for Islam?

Beaf:
To be honest, you're not the only one who is surprised about this. I have been waiting for condemnation from all faith groups, especially Islamic ones. I think it is very important that they speak up now.

In fairness, there have been condemnation from an Islamic Organisation in Nigeria, but what weight does it carry? I will prefer someone like a prominent Islamic Scholar, Sultan, Emir etc come out and speak against these type of atrocities. It carries more weight and there are chances that people will actually listen to them than some group not a lot of people know about.

Most muslim I have spoken to have given the impression of trying to give various justification and even defend the action of this guy. One even blamed America etc and this are the type of mentality that worries me.

As for the result of the survey, I have always hold the notion that when it comes to moving forward, Nigeria still have a long way to go. Yeah the manner in which the survey was done can be questioned etc, but it without a doubt raises serious question on how religion haven eaten deep into the mentality of my people.