₦airaland Forum

Lol...Glad to see you didn't disappoint and carried on with your agenda despite my guessing it'd come to this eventually.

Carry on tho,just ignore this "sent" distraction.
It's a one time thing

budaatum:
Did you miss how tough johnydon22 was on op? Your evidence can only not be enough to convince because it isn't evidence or because the person you present it to refuses to look at it or see it, in which case we'd just say they are blind. Interpreted evidence on the other hand is of a different order, and more especially if its in the form of words which are subject to interpretation.

I'll give an example. I'm going to write a few words in my next sentence. I'm going to hide them just to make it harder for you. With them I intend to state how I feel about you. I have to forewarn you that its not pretty and if I were in front of you you might not like it a tiny bit. In fact that feeling rages in me at this very moment and I wish I'd change my mind.
You ready? Don't blush on me now!







There, interpret that!

Lol,That is way too much for me to process buda.

LordReed:
How do you know what I interpret as evidence? Anyway this is getting tedious, I am not begging you, provide or don't.

I actually never set out to prove anything and this diversion was aided by Hakeem as would be done to anybody that shows the slightest support for God,gods or ID.

I have checked and didn't see the one that doesn't.

Why is it this way with you? Are you being forced? If you don't want an honest discussion just say so.

Lol..I can only wonder how narrow your search was cos it's pretty obvious how the world of science is aware of the gaps in transitional fossils.
"Not every transitional form appears in the fossil record, because the fossil record is not complete. Organisms are only rarely preserved as fossils in the best of circumstances, and only a fraction of such fossils have been discovered."
Peharps you misunderstand me? Nevertheless not all illustrations depicting evolutionary stages of species is actually backed by actual fossils.

LMFAO! Car is not a vehicle because car came after vehicle. LoL! Even when the scholarly work you requested confirms that the hypothesis has its roots in Greek philosophers you are going to deny it over semantics? Wow.

Lol..You misunderstand me yet again."Abiogenesis is dependent on evolution".Abiogenesis is a natural explanation for the origin of life and evolution is the natural explanation of how simple organisms became complex.Evolution is the foundation on which any origin of life hypothesis relies on for plausibility,I refer to scientific hypotheses only.If a abiogenetic hypotheses somewhat contradicts evolution,would such hypotheses be deemed more plausible when juxtaposed with hypotheses corroborating it? Would you understand my point if I said,God depended on it's creation? Yes God depends on it's creation cos I don't see the use of a God without it's creation? Would you deem a theory stating that a God that created nothingness and watches over nothingness plausible if you couldn't find any shred of suggestive evidence that such a theory might just be true? In the same vain,complexity and the universe and all things within are what God depends on for plausibility.An observable reference for the unknown.Evolution is a dominant theory and as such any theory that explains the origin of life scientifically would most likely have to support the evolutionary process.I hope you fill in the gaps I'm unable to fill with this explanation.

BTW you can show me which of Lamarck's work was called Theory of Evolution.

None actually literally and seems you are guilty of the same act of you accuse me of.But if you searched on google "Who first postulated the theory of evolution?" I wonder whose name pops up.

I think this is a sign, the discussion has reached its end point.

It had actually reached it's end point a day ago when I stated that we don't have much to disagree on.Would you have much to disagree on with an agnostic as much as an atheist? I'm guessing not.(I don't mean this literally).

LordReed:
I am not asking you to convince me, I am asking for evidence, that is simple.

Well I'm also saying that even if I did provide the evidence,it is certainly not enough to convince you if what I interpret as evidence is not the same with your interpretation.

Which ones don't have fossils?

I don't think I have to mention the ones that don't have fossils.The internet should do the trick.

Early greek philosophers laid the philosophical foundations of the distinction between bio and abiogenesis, when they debated organic and non-organic explanations for natural phenomena.

Historical Development of the Distinction between Bio- and Abiogenesis.
Robert B. Sheldon

So we are talking about a hypothesis that was made in antiquity during the time of Aristotle while you are mentioning a theory that was first proposed less than 400 years ago.

As I said the Spontaneous generation hypothesis is irrelevant.Abiogenesis is different from Spontaneous generation as regards to mechanisms but similar in the aim which is providing explanation for the origin of life through non-organic elements.Abiogenesis was coined in modern times when it was first proposed in 1924 or there about.

hakeem4:
You could even win a Nobel laureate if you find one evidence to disprove natural selection.

Lol..Would it be the case if I found evidence to prove ID?

So if god was wrong about where humans came from, then he’s definitely wrong about where we’d end up after death.

God hasn't made a case for itself just yet.Human influences or interpretations of God and "God said" is pretty much human logic impersonating ID.

Meaning god is not omniscient or intelligent. Then why call him god or the intelligent designer?

If a product of human intelligence could complain,let's say a car or a generator,it would make the same case we make now against our intelligence.Perhaps it exaggerated our intelligence or neglected the possibility that we're confined to make the best out of the materials available to us? Would the ills that befall these machines discredit the intelligence of it's inventor? Perhaps it's the fault of the invention in search of an objective model of perfection,created illusions to fit it's subjective model of it's inventor? Who's fault is it now?

LordReed:
Then provide it, it's that simple.

Not quite simple.It's still proving a rather herculean task to convince certain people that evolution is a natural phenomenon in spite of the "evidence"

Each of those animals has their fossils on record so I am not understanding what your objection is. Did you think they were fantasty?

Not all those animals have fossils on record just like other illustrations of it's kind with the same aim.

Never called it an answer.

Lol.Okay

It's like saying the foundations of a house depend on the walls for support because the walls lead down into the ground. It's a silly notion and one you shouldn't be holding. Abiogenesis precedes evolution by centuries and is not the only hypothesis put forward on the origin of life, don't keep holding ideas that have no basis in reality.

Abiogenesis associated with strictly modern scientific influence doesn't precede evolution I'm afraid.If you can provide scientifically experimented abiogenetic tests that were carried out before Darwinian theory.Mind you,evolution theory was first postulated by Lamarck so these proofs have to predate this to avoid any evolutionary influence.Spontaneous generation isn't relevant.
The context in which I'm interpreting abiogenesis
"Abiogenesis, the idea that life arose from nonlife more than 3.5 billion years ago on Earth. Abiogenesis proposes that the first life-forms generated were very simple and through a gradual process became increasingly complex."

hakeem4:
my view on the world is based on OBJECTIVE FACTS if you give me evidence for your ID and it goes with many experiment, and it is also peer reviewed then i would acknowledge. But if you want to use Logic or common sense to support your premise then i am sorry i would not even take a look at it.

Like I said earlier,I have no proposed evidences you haven't known already and probably dismissed.I can only assure you that when I'm convinced by a discovery I find important,I'll let you know.

there are some hypothesis working on how consciousness evolved. okay this is a religious section so i am not going to flood it with much scientific terms.All higher organisms (Homo sapiens, chimps, bonobos, etc) are all conscious animals. so this appeared to be directly proportional to the complexity of the animals brain.

Human and animal and animal consciousness are on different levels,you know that right?

how does the start of something depend on the end

When the ending is the only available and observable material.

LordReed:
Which is none, copy that.

Not quite.

Show me an example of this hand drawn illustration depicting evolutionary processes.

It's attached to this reply even tho I don't think I should be providing such illustrations as they are a fundamental part of evolution theory.

Amazing non-answer.

Lol..It wasn't an answer but a sly suggestion with underlying sarcasm.

It does not. Abiogenesis is but one possibility for how life arose and is separate from evolution and only appears to be tied to evolution because you refuse to expand the limits of your knowledge.

I humbly disagree with your opinion of me as one that refuses to expand the limits of his knowledge.Abiogenesis is dependent on evolution as it is preceded by evolution itself.You can only convince me that it isn't if your provide proof that it was first hypothesize before evolution.When critics began questioning the origin of the first cellular organisms,Abiogenesis is invented.Scientists didn't first invent Abiogenesis then evolution.It's the other way round.
When I say Abiogenesis is dependent on evolution,I mean it only holds any credibility because of evolution. Evolution is the foundation on which such hypotheses thrive as regards to a natural explanation for everything.You and I don't really have much to disagree about cos you don't open threads that clearly state "ID refuted".

LordReed:
What type of evidence do you then have?

None that you aren't already aware of.

What are these assumptions?

The numerous hand drawn illustrations depicting evolutionary processes without actual evident fossils to back it up is one of the glaring assumptions made by science.

Scientific theories are not end all, be all statements. If evolution doesn't explain the dawn of mind there will be other theories that do.

An artificial intelligence perhaps?(Lol)

No it doesn't.

Lol..We both know it does.Abiogenesis seeks to corroborate evolution.What is the need of the origin of life without life itself? What's the need of an author without his/her literary work?

hakeem4:
. well i have not seen any evidence for the intelligent designer. i would like if you could give me some.

Sadly I can't provide you solid objective evidence.Your view of the world has being clouded by natural selection,so it's futile to provide evidences that are aren't overwhelmingly obvious.

well if natural selection was flawed like you claim, it would not have passed any peer review and many scientist would not acknowledge it.

Evolution was first proposed by Lamarck without natural selection as a fundamental mechanism. Flawed theories were the result in the end until Darwin revised evolution using natural selection.It sounds more plausible but relies on way too many assumptions when adapted to illustrate evolution from simple to complex organisms.The finger of natural selection is very plausible when comparing living things within similar categories which is what it thrives tbh.It still doesn't explain consciousness in humans tho among other important questions. So the fact is science accepts evolution through natural selection because of the short chain similarities within a family in the taxonomic ranking.It's with this supposed evidence they use as a basis for extrapolation.This doesn't mean they can't just be chasing winds.

Even if NS was flawed it wont still make creationism right

Here's why I pleaded with you to be open minded.You still sulk in your bias towards ID.It's all good tho.

now Abiogenesis is a hypothesis that tells us how life started ( it could be wrong though) but its plausible. The miller urey's experiment shows that abiogenesis is actually plausible.

Abiogenesis depends on evolution which is still under construction.Natural and artificial influence aren't the same thing.Artificial influence on natural phenomena is susceptible to fine tuning.

And since god did it is more of a religious claim than a hypothesis.

Hakeem did you know ID was invented before religion? The ID hypothesis preceded religion and is the basis of religion.Religion merely ensured it's dominance and sustenance over time just as science similarly does with evolution.ID was proposed during the infancy of human intelligence and I'm still at a loss as to why we came up with such a delusion perhaps we were spoon fed and nurtured into this knowledge? I don't really feel we didn't merely comprehend natural phenomena as an excuse for a theory as elaborate as an ID.

hakeem4:
well ID is not a serious position to hold cause there’s no evidence to back the premise.

Very true,but what if evidence sits right in front of you? ID without religion holds pretty much no water.Religion has privileged ID with a place in human history without much scrutiny.So it's pretty much just an assumption when separated from religious influence.It is most fascinating independent of religion.Interpretation of an ID becomes subjectively limitless.

Well natural selection explains how we have complex life so I do not see the need for any ID except you talk about the origin of life and we have a hypothesis called abiogenesis

Natural selection isn't foolproof Hakeem. It's like an assumed master keys in the hands of science but somehow there are doors that the keys doesn't fit.There are doors with watchmen that collect and fling the keys into depths of the unknown.I trust science tho,to pick the locks and wrestle with strongmen so as to gain entry into closed doors but until then Hakeem,keep an open mind lest what lies behind those doors be the same knowledge you seem so apprehensive towards.Abiogenesis is more flawed than ID.If you can entertain the idea of Abiogenesis,why can't you do same for ID?

OP send your account details..Lemme wire you the remaining 45k.
It seems you missed one zero there.

LordReed:
You are correct evolution and big bang cosmology were not proposed as counters to ID nor are they really evidence against ID

Thank you..Please let Hakeem4 be drilled by this truth so he doesn't arm himself with inappropriate weapons when fighting(Refuting and disproving) against ID.

(though anybody proposing evolution as an ID mechanism must concede that the designer isn't really intelligent.)

The intelligence often associated with a higher being is exaggerated.A careful examination of the ills found within the world around us is a tip that the world isn't perfectly made.The universe is flawed but that doesn't mean a designer isn't intelligent.

An omni God is a result of human influence. A perfect God is a manmade idea because human consciousness seeks an objective paradigm of perfection.Perfection doesn't exist and as such we have enslaved ourselves with standards and prerequisites for attaining perfection that leaves us depressed and unfulfilled.I personally view God as something similar to the fictional character Rick(For some weird reason).A flawed being that's pretty much relatable.Drop the idea of a perfect God that demands perfection from it's creation and you'd find no difficulty in entertaining the idea of God.

MuttleyLaff:
"Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was allowed to burn people with its fiery heat."
- Revelation 16:8

Muttley I hope you don't honestly expect me to accept this at face value. It's clear that the book of revelations is a time period that mostly occurs within the last days..Literal last days.This verse doesn't have any relationship with the increasing temperature we are experiencing currently,as was the OP's intention.

"Who are these who fly like clouds, like doves to their shelters?"
- Isaiah 60:8

Still not buying this.
I asked to OP to bring forth the verses he claims predicted certain things.Just so I know it's not all for the effect.He failed to do that and you saved his face by bringing up these verses that are pretty unconvincing.
So OP the offer is still open.Where are the verses to back up your claim? and not just random verses.

This is the most reasonable and observant post I've seen since this COZA saga started.
Kudos @OP.You spoke my mind.I thought I was the only one observing the crude hypocrisy and sanctimonious attitude of Nigerians like they are really invested in this case or sooo empathetic towards busolas situation. Everyone's looking for how to join the bandwagon.Smh for my country.


So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
John:8:7

There are certain things I have learnt about this COZA rape drama or story. Firstly I learnt Nigerians are 2 faced people , they will always act like they stand by you but they still wait for you to fall to count your flaws and eat you raw. This COZA church in question is not popular cause of the large multitude but the fact it has social presence and it is being flocked by celebrities. From all ramifications most church attenders in COZA attend the church cause of the hype around the church and social presence. The same persons that acted that they care about the pastor were the first to judge him without proper investigation. Secondly I learnt most Nigerians are hypocrites . If you want to quit COZA why come online to announce it to the world , I thought heaven is a one mans race . Some Nigerians be claiming holy like Jesus when they got lot of flaws. If u learnt a lot in COZA why would u change church even if he was found guilty. If you enjoy the word and there is a change in your life , there is no need changing a church and even if u wanna why announce it on social media

Las las some people would lower their heads in shame for jumping into conclusions.Sitting on the fence is the best position right now

Budex40:
Look, to avoid issues like this , get a Sexual consent form and make sure she signs and Thumb prints on it. Also, dont shake or hold women uncessesarily. Learn how to say hi to a woman without body contact. Stop calling any woman( cept a relative) @night. Dont cohabitate with a Woman ur NOT to or legally married to. SIMPLE STURVZ

ROTFL it is slowly coming to that.

budaatum:
We Nigerians seriously need to understand that we, each of us, is governing Nigeria, and help government come up with appropriate solutions, instead of bath watering the baby. But I do understand how almost impossible it is to for some to know the powers they yield, and the cost of having to show you.

Word buda... Word!

Please provide the bible verses from revelations and Isaiah

Lightening:
Fulani herders should go and source private ranches & facilities like other herdersmen and business men everywhere without latching on government for freebies thereby heating up the country unnecessarily.

If it was a southern president providing this solution would you say all this? Would you accuse him of trying to "islamize" the country? If it was your people,would you lack any empathy towards their plight because of the actions of a few riff raffs?
Same thing that wanted to happen when kanu tried to break up SE from Nigeria.This is the same place we're heading to if we don't carefully resolve this issue without subjective influence.

CosmicPhoenix:

but the same neymar wants to return to messi and suarez and this video doesnt prove that's why he left

It's sarcasm dude..Can't you see the laughing emoji at the end of the post containing the video

It's not only Fulanis that rear cattle in Nigeria.Ive resigned from counterproductive arguments with dimwits blinded by tribal bias.I'm pretty sure the govt doesn't give a sh!t about this cyber noisemakers that don't think objectively.It's not every dog that barks that you throw stones at.The govt would do what's best for the country in my opinion cos segregation isn't a good option as it would support the idea that we're different people and should treated differently.It starts with Fulani herdsmen before you know it,ethnic diversity becomes a no no.Imagine if all non northern farmers are asked to leave the north and go to their state.Its this same deluded people that would be screaming tribalism,but don't see what they're doing now.
Oshigun and blackpanda if you have the energy to have counterproductive discussions with deluded folks then I support you.More oil on your head.

I'll relax and sit back until after a week plus when the attention seekers and noise makers close their market.

My people perish for lack of knowledge:because thou hast rejected knowledge

Atheism doesn't deliver anyone from stupidity. Atheism isn't the messiah so don't try to coax people into choosing atheism due to the stupidity that is part of the human condition.Don't use stories like this for propaganda of any kind.There are atheists that would do same.Stupidity isn't selective and can't be erased.

When some deluded and tribalistic folks were calling for the herdsmen to be labelled terrorists by the govt.I laughed so hard at how thick and myopic Nigerians can be.It's like saying Europe and America should label all Muslims as terrorists because of the terrorist attacks perpetrated by a group of people.This would lead to a crisis that the world powers are aware of and try to contain but in Nigeria the president is accused of Islamizing Nigeria because of the tribal biases they have and not because they see the bigger picture for what it is.
I've told myself I wouldn't indulge in any degrading arguments related to this kinda subject.
Although my skeptical side is still open to the opposite being the actual truth.

Buda I've kept on saying this.The war is far beyond the Fulani herdsmen.There has always being tribalistic tension among the citizens of the country and all one needs to do is to the nudge people a little.The conspiracy is far bigger than we think it is.It's slowly building,deluding the masses and distorting the truth through media and hearsay.The Fulani herdsmen are becoming segregated and looked at with hate and condemnation.Either parties are consuming misleading information that is adding fuel to the flame and when the puppet masters are done. Nigeria would be no different from the northern African countries.It may take just months or years but if Nigerians and our govt don't act fast to neutralize this increasingly acidic situation,we would have only ourselves to blame.

EnthronedbyGod:
You are a (cultist-Satanist) my man. I'm very sure of that and I have no apology for making such comment, even if I said I had a feeling.

LMFAO..Desist from making such statements,I don't wanna laugh again.Your falsely accusing people and you call yourself a Christian.

You came to my thread to distract people claiming you came to seek knowledge.

I never claimed to seek knowledge.I only knew this thread existed cos of jnr and I did so because I was skeptical about something independent of the thread.

You were clearly seeking my attention when you tried to invalidate my statements.

You wish.I was only stating the obvious and it was clear just how you had deluded people with your statements contrary to the purpose of thread until I pointed certain things out.

You have gotten the attention you were seeking for, you can peacefully leave this thread now since you have decided to continue with your hardened heart.
I went to your moniker to check your write ups and it just confirmed what I said.
You can leave now.
I pray you find Jesus

Waaaw...My topics would only suggest that if I ever did belong to a cult, it would be a cult of reason and philosophy. I also hope to find jesus someday. So please say little prayer for me so that I find the light.

EnthronedbyGod:
Emperor harry I wouldn't give you the attention you're craving for, cos as I stated earlier you're a distraction and I'll ignore you , no matter how you try

I never intended to drag your attention seeking award from you.It seems to be your forte.Good to see that you've redirected to the original point of this thread by posting your "personal experiences".Too late for that don't you think?.It's all good tho.

I'm having a funny kind of feeling that you're an axeman or a cultist and I don't think I'm far from the truth.

I literally laughed a while at this.It shows how much you allow your mind and not the spirit influence what you think is true or not.Just for the record,you are so far from the truth eternity wouldn't be enough to retrace your steps.

Gandollaar:
That thread is over 50 pages but if you follow it through, you will see that the opposition here is child's play.
Are you irreligious? You sound like your major grouse is the religious tone and undertone of the thread.

I am actually.Some say there's no lukewarm only hot or cold but I'd like to think I'm on the fence when it comes to religion.I have no problem with the religious theme of the thread although I have big problems when someone is tryna take advantage of folks using strategies I'm all too familiar with.

Gandollaar:
If I'm been biased then I have made some sense for you to notice that. But I have no reason whatsoever to be biased. There's a thread about cultism where the OP mentioned he would find time to create a thread on the matter under review. A lot of people showed interest in the proposal and encouraged the OP to do that ASAP and he obliged.

Thanks for referring me to the initial related thread.The OP on that thread clearly had no other intentions other than what the subject suggested.When you start mentioning the holy Mary and super heroes then your pretty much shifting away from the main point.The one that is still funny is the 10 billion souls,once I saw that I lost interest in any other post after that.

Like I said, I don't agree with everything he said. I don't also agree with the initial presentation of his story. At first, I felt it smacked of arrogance and Monopoly of knowledge,

At least we both agree on something.If Jesus is he's mentor I wonder how this came about from the start.

but when he continued in that manner, I concluded that was his style of writing after all he may not be a professional writer and may not even be an eloquent speaker but these cannot negate the import of what he's trying to say.

It's every human with his/her perspective and interpretation.You are seeing a flawed writer and I'm seeing a religious crusader.Too bad nairaland can't be used to make money like some religious folks with personal experience based on conspiracy do.

Someone can be truly blessed, as we speak, some are already receiving their blessings.

I really hope they do.

See the link to the initial thread on cultism, though it's not his work.

https://www.nairaland.com/5207293/story-cult-phase-included/6#78907968[/quote]

jesusjnr:
Of course I pray for all nairalanders just about every day, and I think I've mentioned your name a few times. But that doesn't mean that you should now go on holiday and do whatever you like however you like oh, for you have to do your own part to make it work.

Lol I hear you mahn.

I can say it categorically that your instincts are wrong! My opinion though.

If you say so.I can't always be right but the evidence is glaring.

For the reason I said I didn't believe that 10 billion part as well was to show you how seriously i take this thread. For in spite of that I yet went ahead to open a thread for the first time since I've been here on Nairaland for the sole purpose of directing people to another thread.

That should tell you something, for I believe the OP of this thread is genuine, and that there's no single thing he said here to deceive anyone, even though I disagree with some of them.

I wish you knew what I know and have experienced concerning Nairaland, you would understand why this is such a big deal to me. That's why i'm not focusing on the mistakes of the OP but the bigger picture, for it is worth all the mistakes the OP has made thus far and could yet make.

Cheers.

There shouldn't be reason say something that's not if your being sincere with yourself.I can't imagine if Jesus had made a statement and started rephrasing it when people start questioning it's authenticity.It's a personal crusade this dude is on and there's nothing that rattles the mind than conspiracy theories which the OP employed after the first 2 pages.I've just seen the initial thread that lead to this one,the OP obviously didn't summarize his experience and deviate entirely from the aim of the thread even tho he's guilty of wearing the thread for days.His posts where not as distorted as this.Anyways who am I judge someone "enthroned by God".