₦airaland Forum

cornelboy:
Of course it clearly shows Jesus was part of God's creation

Le God be true

"All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him not EVEN ONE THING came into existence." - John 1:3 NWT

CEV: "And with this Word, God created all things. Nothing was made without the Word. Everything that was created"

GNT: "Through him God made all things; not one thing in all creation was made without him."

AMP: "All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him not even one thing was made that has come into being."

GW: "Everything came into existence through him. Not one thing that exists was made without him."

And the list goes on.

So how can Jesus be part of creation if NOTHING CAME INTO EXISTENCE without HIM(Jesus)?

cornelboy:
Guy hold on to your interpretation.

Not my interpretation but the meaning of those words you're using.

You made this claim above "Hahahaha they are really funny.
I'll be here to correct their mistakes"

So why can't you point out my mistakes?

cornelboy:
http://www.torimill.com/2017/10/nigerian-lady-suspended-from-her-church.html

Lol the guy was asking "where is the love"? Lol

This shows that nothing JWs does that is new to Christianity

Ken4Christ:
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Waooooo

Nothing someone won't see on this Nairaland.

You better pull this down.

MaxInDHouse:
Let them tell how the firstborn is no part of those being born.
First born of all creations simply means the person in question is part of creation.
Simple as ABC!

How does firstborn mean being part of creation?

I'm waiting for your definition of firstborn.

cornelboy:
You can't tell me which versions to quote or which ones not to quote.

I've made myself cleared on this.

I use all the scriptures and compare them together.

Just say you cherry pick them because I'm sure you won't quote them whenever they against your view.

Now, do you compare them with NWT?

I have never quoted the NWT here. So don't ever bring that up again.

So which version did you read it from that Jesus is the first created being?

I never said "firstborn" means "first created".

This was your initial point

So "Jesus is the firstborn of all creation" clearly shows that Jesus was part of creation and he's the first to be created

But you're using the silent point of FIRSTBORN to arrive at FIRST CREATED.

So the two are of different meaning.

Firstborn signifies first in order of time and first in importance or preeminence.

"Firstborn of all creation/creature" simply means Jesus is the first and most important creature in God's creation.

The @underlined is your conjecture not from the scripture.

Reason you keep confusing yourself.

Then why must Jesus still be the one SHOULD BE FIRST IN ALL THINGS?

If we go by your explanation here, reason why you can't answer that question.

It's clear that Jesus is part of creation and he's the first (order of time) and most preeminent of everything created.

If Jesus is part of creation then it means Jesus created Himself.

Preeminence means sovereign OVER ALL CREATIONS.

John 1:3 says "Apart from Him, NOT EVEN ONE THING was created.."

You can see the reason why Watchtower has to dubiously inserted the word "OTHER" multiple times in Col 1:16-18.

Just like he's the first and most preeminent among the believers that will be/were raised from the dead to spirit beings. Colossians 1:18.

No! Don't twist it.

After Paul described Jesus as the Creator in that Col 1, he went further to say He is the first to be raised and end it by saying "so that HE WILL BE FIRST IN EVERYTHING" that is the key point.

If Jesus was created, no need for that statement.

cornelboy:
Lol you're not in any position to tell me which versions to you.

Sure I can't!

But will you use the same KJV or any other versions when it's against you?

That's why you must stick to the version you subscribe to.

Firstborn means first in order of time and importance.

But not FIRST CREATED.

The two aren't the same.

So "Jesus is the firstborn of all creation" clearly shows that Jesus was part of creation

No! If not there's no need to still be the one WHO IS FIRST IN ALL THINGS.

and he's the first to be created

Then why does HE need to still be the one who is FIRST IN ALL THINGS?

Definitely you don't understand that part.

and most preeminent of all creation.

You've started adding your own like Watchtower.

Where did you see "most preeminent OF ALL creation?"

And to be preeminent means "the unequivocal Sovereign over all creation"

MaxInDHouse:
@ Cornelboy
Let them change the meaning of the word "FIRSTBORN" nah
Perhaps English will change the meaning of that word because Churchgoers are demanding it!

Can you provide from any source where the word firstborn was ever used for CREATE?

cornelboy:
Colossians 1:18 KJV And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence

Here it shows that Jesus was the first to be raised from the dead to a spirit life and also the most preeminent.

KJV is not your cherry pick one, people behind the work of KJV didn't believe Jesus was created so next time stick to your own translation NWT.

"and he is the head of the body, the congregation.+ He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,+ so that he might become the one who is first in all things;" - NWT

Two things here:

First: He is THE BEGINNING, note that The Father is also called The Beginning

Second: So that he might BECOME the ONE who is FIRST in ALL THINGS.

If you agree with Watchtower that Jesus was the FIRST created Being, why must He be the ONE WHO BECOME FIRST IN ALL THINGS?

Is He not the FIRST IN ALL THINGS before?

MaxInDHouse:
They just dismiss the idea of a beginning!

Olodo....

Does John 1:1 say the Word had a beginning?

Genesis 1:1 already told us what was created first.

"In the BEGINNING, God created heavens and earth"

To say Jesus was created first means Genesis should be read "In the BEGINNING, God created a Word"

Don't forget the Father is also "THE BEGINNING"

Does it mean the Father was created?

Aemmyjah:
The WORD had a beginning

Where did you see that from the scripture?

MaxInDHouse:
Are you saying the first born of creation is no part of creation?

Yes! Jesus Himself said He had glory with the Father even before the WORLD(UNIVERSE) begins.

What is the meaning of the word firstborn Son in a family?

It means superior in.

Not CREATED,

Greek/Hebrew word for CREATE and FIRSTBORN are not the same.

Janosky:
ALL this nah WAILING

From the misinformed hallgoer miscreant

In your own Bible did the Corinthian brethren teach that Jesus did not resurrect?

But they didn't say Jesus is the one who taught them that there's no resurrection.

In your own Bible, did Thomas believe that Jesus Christ resurrect until Jesus persuaded him?

Thomas used his own human understanding reason why he needs HARDCORE EVIDENCE.

Thomas never claimed God told him that Jesus won't resurrect.

Did Samuel the prophet give a FALSE anointing in your Bible?

Samuel had WRONG perspective about the situation using his own human understanding and God corrected Him immediately.

Just as Thomas adjusted his beliefs about Jesus resurrection

Thomas adjusted because he realised he was WRONG and not on God's side.

Did Watchtower agreed that they are lying against God when God didn't send them?

JWs have readjusted to conform with JEHOVAH'S standards as the Corinthian brethren readjusted themselves, 2 Corinthians 13:9,11.

The question is, who taught JWs all those MISTAKES?

Jesus Himself corrected the Corinthians because He knows they are in error.

JWs on the other hands claimed God taught them everything. In fact, what they taught is not of man but from God.

That's is a lie against God and not man.

Can God teach error?

Do you agree JWs are just using their own human understanding and NOT DIRECTED BY God?

Till tomorrow,Pastor kumuyi your 3 deities anointed is still doing reforms.

Then you agree that both Kumuyi and your gods in Warwick are on the same level

Your gods of men are still mishearing from your 3 deities.

That's the evidence that those gods of men and your gods in Warwick are on the same page.

Make una continue WAILING about JWs.
[/b]

Why you'll continue crying and pained

oteneaaron:
Why is it so easy for Jehovah's Witnesses to spread LIES?

Jehovah's Witnesses prophesied that the world would end in 1975.

Here are some of the evidence -

Oya, deny the above evidence.

There is plenty more from where that came from.

Do you think he doesn't know that?

He is just a lying liar hallgoer miscreant.

MaxInDHouse:
Can you quote where Jesus expressly stated that he is EQUAL TO THE FATHER?

"so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." John 5:23 - NWT

In case you don't understand this scripture, just walk up to any elder in your Hall, then tell the elder, today begin to honour me JUST AS you honour Jehovah.

Let's see how it will go. Don't forget to do video also

MaxInDHouse:
Quote a publication of Jehovah's Witnesses where it's explicitly stated that the world will end in year so and so!

Lying liar misinformed hallgoer miscreant

MaxInDHouse:
Did i tell you it never happened?
Come on, God's people realized that many are so poor that they can't even afford the literatures but they showed genuine love for the truth so instead of collecting money as value God's people concluded that whoever wants the books should be given freely..
Does that makes the master who corrected them wrong?
Note how he paid workers the same wage {Matthew 20:1-16} if you have once paid for a publication that shouldn't deprive others who needs it yet they don't have the money!

Is it not the same master who gave the instructions of collecting money from people in the first place?

If it's not the same master, then who gave the instructions of collecting money?

MaxInDHouse:
So Jehovah's Witnesses are the real followers of Christ since we don't declare a specific date but keep announcing the same thing Jesus announced!

So which date did Jesus return?

achorladey:
You have to put claiming to make your religious organization the true Christians

Meanwhile, he is the deluded one who said the name Christian is bastardized and cursed.

But now CLAIMING to be the same Christian

cedricksly:
the trinity doctrine was smuggled into christiandom through cloak and dagger means

Who smuggled it in?

it never existed from the very first original bible translation.

Even till now, Trinity never existed in any Bible translations.

So what is your point?

Deuteronomy 6:4 said it and was said again in Mark 12:29, God is one

Even the Trinitarians still hold the believe that God is one.

forget the trinity fallacy that came about from deliberate mistranslation of the bible original text by long James and Co.

Point out those mistranslation Bible text let's see your point.

The bible refer to jesus christ as the first born of all creation

Which means?

and jesus never spoke neither did he teach about the trinity Gospel, the trinity Gospel is rooted in Falsehood.

Nothing like Trinity Gospel.

Where did you hear that lie from?

The only spirit in itself is the power of God(Zechariah 4:6, Micah 3:

No doubt about it.

Jesus is also called the Power of God.

So, what's your point here?

the TRINITY GOSPEL IS UNBLIBLICAL.

The Bible says The Father is eternal
The Bible says Jesus is Eternal
The same Bible says Holy Spirit is Eternal.

Is God not ONLY eternal BEING?

U can choose to argue, but this is the truth and in time you will know.

You can also choose to argue but the truth is found in the Bible not mere wishful thinking and manipulations.

In due time, you'll know either.

achorladey:
Cornelboy you are a thief?

Cornelboy go and bring evidence that you are a thief.

Wait why are you still mentioning me. You want to save your face of lies and manipulations abi?

Can you imagine the nonsense talk.

He even asked me to proof that you're not disfellowshiped

cornelboy:
Show evidence that you left yourself

Did Watchtower give people who left their organisation receipt for leaving them?

cornelboy:
Now you're talking

So what am I saying?

cornelboy:
Lol I'm telling you that degrees are not needed to be rich.

Then who says it's needed to be rich or does our discussion go that line?

And of course we go to school because of money.

And what has this got to do with the our discussion?

Oya tell me the contradiction there lol

Focus on POV....

cornelboy:
Why do we go to college if not for money lol

You're the one who said "That should show you that degrees are useless when it comes to making money."

Then you trunk around to ask "Why do we go to college if not for money?"

Something is definitely messing up with your brain.

You're his lawyer na. Oya bring proof

Just see how you're just disgracing yourself on a public forum.

cornelboy:
That should show you that degrees are useless when it comes to making money.

So where did I say you need degrees to make money?

I only said your education (if you actually acquired any) is a waste.

Brainwashed is bad

Bring proof that achorladey left himself and wasn't disfellowshipped

So I should be the one to bring PROOF when you're the one who accused him falsely.

Na wa oooo

cornelboy:
Have you used your education to accomplish anything?

Yes!

The richest people in the world today dropped out of college.

But he is educated and acquired various degree later.

A person that was disfellowshipped is definitely an ex JW

So what of the person who left willingly?

mank1234:
Only KJV has this interpretation.

This is not true.

Many translations have it just that most MODERN translations don't.

So they feel it has been manipulated. They may be right in that regards. But they are also wrong in some other ones.

Well the major reason for Its rejection is that, the text wasn't found in MAJORITY EARLY GREEK MANUSCRIPTS but only found in most Latin manuscripts. Which is late.

But the evidence is that most early Christians scholars both Greek and Latin already know about the word and alluded to it in their writings. So something must have gone wrong along the way of transmitting.

cornelboy:
Achorladey admitted that he is an ex JW many times

So exjws must always be the people disfellowship from the organisation

And what you people just want to proof is that nobody left the organisation on their own will without being punished for one wrong or the other

Your education (if you ever acquired one) is a waste.

Courz:
He has answered you yet you call him a Liar. I talk am achorladey. Foolish cornelboy still thinks you are disfellowshipped because Mad MaxInDHouse his god said so.

Oya prove to us that he is lying now. Mumu.

The day that misinformed hallgoer miscreant MaxinDhouse said openly here that it was Holy Spirit of God who told him that I was Olaadegbu and Johnw47. Then you should know there's no length they can't go just to lie against someone.

Tushkid74:
Lol.

Looks like there is more to this than I thought.

Any small expose against your organisation you people term it as hate.

In all your honesty and sincerity (if you have any), have you seen any Watchtower article against other Christians as hate?