₦airaland Forum

TunjiMsp:
yes, the real one locked away somewhere not the revised one you are using this days

Are you for real?

Which one did your brother use in his quotation the real one locked away somewhere or the revised one I'm using and where did he see this original one that Christians don't have?

In case you forget NOTE : All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.

So you mean King James Version is the real one.

alansary0064

@OP

So that means Bible is AN INSPIRED Word of God, am I correct?

amii131:
ich wohnen in ikotun....und Sie?

Ich wohne in Abuja

Wie geht's ihnen?

RikoduoSennin:
John 21:25 "But there are also many other things which Jesus did: were every one to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written"

@the bold section, that is a Very BOLD thing to say seeing as not everything Jesus did was written and you did not lived during his era.

I wasn't surprised at all with this your statement.

If we should go by you, then it means the writings of these blessed Apostles are not enough for us to know EVERYTHING about what Jesus taught. Anyway it's not strange since that's how your organization always do. Why did I say this?

When they want to build faith in Bible they claimed "No striking or fundamental variation is shown either in the Old or [size=14pt]the New Testament. There are no important omissions or additions of passages, and no variations which affect vital facts or doctrines."[/size] Reasoning from the Scriptures p. 64

"Not only are there thousands of manuscripts to compare but discoveries of older Bible manuscripts during the past few decades take the Greek text back as far as about the year 125 C.E., just a couple of decades short of the death of the apostle John about 100 C.E. These manuscript evidences provide strong assurance that we now have a [size=14pt]dependable Greek text[/size] in refined form." All Scripture is Inspired of God and Beneficial p.319

But when they were asked, why they insert JEHOVAH in their NWT? The story changes:
"Sometime during the second or third century C.E. [size=14pt]the scribes removed the Tetragrammaton from both the Septuagint and the Christian Greek Scriptures and replaced it with Ky´ri·os, "Lord" or The·os´, "God."[/size] " New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures - With References p.1564 1D The Divine Name in the Christian Greek Scriptures

So if the Scribes can remove the Tetragrammaton that means what we have in possession today have been tampered with and they can be trusted.

Is there any really reason why Jesus would see the use of the Divine Name as a 'Taboo'?

I think the question should be WHY NO SINGLE PLACE IN THE FOUR DIFFERENT GOSPEL ACCOUNTS OF JESUS CHRIST WAS RECORDED THAT JESUS USED THE NAME?

The Greek septuagint is my proof that the Divine Name exist during the first century C.E
/ during Christ Era.

So where are these Greek Septuagint today?

Either number one or two is well understood by you and the same conclusion can be made after considering John 17:6,26; Hebrew 2:11,12;

You're still beating around the BUSH, even with the insertion of Jehovah by NWT I'm still asking you to show me JUST A SINGLE VERSE where Jesus EVER CALLED THE FATHER Jehovah. Yet you couldn't.

Let me give you a small quote from Greek scholars and compare it with the WT interpretation of both John 17:,26 & Heb 2:12 to see the difference.
But let me start with this toking;

[b] The definition of the word 'name' includes:

1. A word or words by which an entity is designated and distinguished from others.
2. A word or group of words used to describe or evaluate, often disparagingly.
3. Representation or repute, as opposed to reality: a democracy in name, a police state in fact.
A reputation

[size=14pt]Likewise Strong's Concordance explains that 'name' (onoma - 3686)[/size] includes "everything which the name covers, everything the thought or feeling of which is aroused in the mind by mentioning, hearing, remembering, the name, i.e. for one's rank, authority, interests, pleasure, command, excellences, deeds etc." The root word for onoma is ginosko (1097), meaning;

*to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel
*to become known
*to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of
*to understand
*to know
*Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman
*to become acquainted with, to know[/b]


[size=14pt]On John 17:6,26[/size][/hr]

Verse 6. Have manifested thy name. The word name here includes the attributes or character of God. Jesus had made known his character, his law, his will, his plan of mercy--or, in other words, he had revealed GOD to them. [size=14pt]The word name is often used to designate the person,[/size] Joh 15:21; Mt 10:22; Ro 2:24; 1Ti 6:1. Albert Barne NT commentary

Verse 6. I have manifested thy name] efanerwsa, I have brought it into light, and caused it to shine in itself, and to illuminate others. A little of the Divine nature was known by the works of creation; a little more was known by the Mosaic revelation: [size=14pt]but the full manifestation of God, his nature, and his attributes, came only through the revelation of Christ."[/size] Adam Clarke commetary

Verse 26. Thy name. See Barnes for Joh 17:6. Albert Barne NT commentary

Verse 26. I have declared unto them thy name, &c.] I have taught them the true doctrine. Adam Clarke commetary

[/hr]

[size=14pt]On Heb 2:12[/size]

"I will declare thy name. I will make thee known. [size=14pt]The word "name" is used, as it often is, to denote God himself.[/size] The meaning is, that it would be a part of the Messiah's work to make known to his disciples the character and perfections of God--or to make them acquainted with God. He performed this. In his parting prayer (Joh 17:6) he says, "I have manifested thy name unto the men whom thou gavest me out of the world." And again, Joh 17:26, "And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it." Albert Barne NT commentary

Verse 12. I will declare thy name] See Ps 22:22. The apostle certainly quotes this psalm as referring to Jesus Christ, and these words as spoken by Christ unto the Father, in reference to his incarnation; as if he had said: [size=14pt]"When I shall be incarnated, I will declare thy perfections to mankind; and among my disciples I will give glory to thee for thy mercy to the children of men."[/size] See the fulfilment of this, [size=14pt]Joh 1:18: No man hath seen God at any time; the ONLY-BEGOTTEN SON, which is in the bosom of the Father, HE HATH DECLARED HIM. Nor were the perfections of God ever properly known or declared, till the manifestation of Christ.[/size] Hear another scripture, Lu 10:21,22: In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes, &c. Thus he gave praise to God." Adam Clarke commetary

What we can conclude from here is; Jesus made known the Father's qualities. He highlighted a loving God, rather than focus on the more legalistic and destructive qualities so readily identifiable in the Old Testament Yahweh.
[/hr]

Why did the Jews stop using the Divine Name? Was it because of God's command or Tradition? Does Jesus obey the tradition of man?

I believe you have internet you can browse why the Jews stop using it.

Evidence shows that the pronunciation of the Divine name has been lost before Jesus Christ, if the usage of the name is so important for us;
1. Jesus as the Son of God suppose to have restored the details about the Name
2. Jesus would have given a commandment about the Name
3. Jesus would have setting an example by referring to the Father with that Name always.

But no single verse from the TRUSTWORTHY FOURFOLD GOSPEL ACCOUNT that supported all these including entire NT writers whereas these people can gave us more than two places where The NAME OF JESUS WAS CALLED UPON

Where did you come up with the above conclusion?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since you won't research The Greek Septuagint online- let me help you:

Imaging you want to help me when you've not helped yourself.

Anyway I won't bombard this post with many words but I'll only pick three most important parts

It is true, [size=14pt]no reference to The Divine Name, in it's complete form, can be found in the extant manuscript copies of the original text of the "New Testament".[/size]  However, an abbreviated form of The Name does occur at Revelation 19:1, 3, 4, 6, in the expression "Alleluia" or "Hallelujah" in KJ, Dy, JB, AS, and RS.

The bold part destroyed the argument of NWT because the ONLY MANUSCRIPTS for support is the over 5,000 Greek manuscripts which the usage of the Divine name has never been found. So which manuscripts the WT used to insert Jehovah into their NWT?

Sit down and enjoy the unfold truth about NWT.

"in the most accurate manuscripts THE NAME occurs in Hebrew characters, yet not in today's Hebrew [characters], [size=14pt]but in the most ancient ones."[/size]

Your author shot him/herself in the leg with this quote
Notice the underline & bold

Evidence indicates that the "New Testament" writers did NOT substitute The Divine Name with "kyrios," (Lord) or "theos," (God).

Your Author says EVIDENCE but no evidence was shown, why?

According to Professor George Howard, Associate Professor of Religion and Hebrew at the University of Georgia:

Your Author alluded to Professor Howard which is the normal practice of JWs quoting half message of a scholars or professors and withholding the most important message the person(s) trying to pass across.

Now see the whole truth:
In 1977 George Howard published a [size=14pt]thesis[/size] showing that the Old Testament retained YHWH in certain versions of the Greek Septuagint.

Three critical points must be made;

1. Howard's work did not examine the use of YHWH in the New Testament, but the use of YHWH in the Old Testament.
2. Howard then concludes with a theory that YHWH may have appeared in the New Testament, which the Watchtower chooses to present fact.
3. Howard's work contradicts the Watchtower concept that YHWH was not removed from the Septuagint until the second century after Jesus.

What we first know is that Howard's word is just a THESIS which WT themselves knew but decided to take it as TRUTH, can you imaging?
[/hr]
See the following discussion from the NWT Reference edition.

"Concerning the use of the Tetragrammaton in the Christian Greek Scriptures, George Howard of the University of Georgia wrote in Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 96, 1977, p. 63: "Recent discoveries in Egypt and the Judean Desert allow us to see first hand the use of God's name in pre-Christian times. These discoveries are significant for N[ew] T[estament] studies in that they form a literary analogy with the earliest Christian documents and may explain how NT authors used the divine name. [size=14pt]In the following pages we will set forth a theory that the divine name,... (and possibly abbreviations of it), was originally written in the NT quotations of and allusions to the O[ld] T[estament] and that in the course of time it was replaced mainly with the surrogate ? [abbreviation for Ky´ri·os, "Lord"]. This removal of the Tetragram[maton], in our view, created a confusion in the minds of early Gentile Christians about the relationship between the 'Lord God' and the 'Lord Christ' which is reflected in the MS tradition of the NT text itself."
[size=14pt]We concur with the above, [b]with this exception: We do not consider this view a "theory," rather, a presentation of the facts of history as to the transmission of Bible manuscripts."[b][/size] New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures - Reference Edition p.1564 1D The Divine Name in the Christian Greek Scriptures

Can you see how WT played their game here?

The concluding part of Howard thesis that NWT didn't quote

"(2) Concluding Observations. The above examples are, of course, [size=14pt]only exploratory[/size] in nature and are set forth here programatically. Nevertheless, the evidence is sufficiently strong to suggest that the thesis of this paper is quite possible. We have refrained from drawing too many conclusions due to the revolutionary nature of the thesis. Rather than state conclusions now in a positive manner it seems better only to raise some questions that suggest [size=14pt]a need for further explanation."[/size]

And I believe that if Howard's word including NT and show where Jesus was applied with the name Jehovah like the way Hebrew J version
which was used for NWT you people would have discard his claim or cherry pick it as usual.
[/hr]

The Emphatic Diaglott, a 19th-century translation by Benjamin Wilson, contains the name Jehovah a number of times, particularly where the Christian writers quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures; but, as far back as the 14th century, the Tetragrammaton had already begun to be used in translations of the Christian Scriptures into Hebrew, beginning with the translation of Matthew into Hebrew that was incorporated in the work ´E'ven bo'chan by Shem-Tob ben Isaac Ibn Shaprut.  Wherever Matthew quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures, this translation used the Tetragrammaton in each case of its occurrence.  Many other Hebrew translations have since followed the same practice.

I asked, since the Greek manuscripts we have in possession don't contain the full form of the Divine Name where did WT get it from?
It occurs that they used Hebrew J version (this is Greek manuscripts that were translated to Hebrew around 1384 AD) which came out thousand years after the canon of the Bible has been formed.

As an example, the New World Translation Reference Bible footnote to Matthew 1:24 cites;

24* Jehovah J1-4, 7-14, 16-18, 22-24; Lord AB

Whereas in the J version we found the Divine Name in 307 places For this reason the NWT does not include Jehovah in over 50 places that the J versions do. For instance J7 and J8 translate 1 Peter 3:15 as:

"Sanctify Jehovah God (who is Christ) in your hearts."
Other verses in which the Tetragrammaton appears in the "J" versions but not as Jehovah in the New World Translation include;

1 Corinthians 12:3
(J-14) "...no one can say "Jesus is Lord Jehovah, except by the Holy Spirit."
(NWT) "nobody can say: "Jesus is Lord!" except by holy spirit.

2 Timothy 1:18
(J-7,8,13,14,16,17,18,22,23,24) "The Lord Jehovah grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord Jehovah in that day..."
(NWT) "May the Lord grant him to find mercy from Jehovah in that day."

Why would the early copiests substitute kyrios (Lord) or theos (God) for The Divine Name?

From 66 CE to 135 CE there were:
Several Jewish revolts fostered much persecution by Roman authorities upon any who appeared Jewish;

After the apostle's deaths,  there was a great falling away from the true faith. (2 Thessalonians 2:3; 2 Peter 2:3);

Most Jewish Christians were killed by the Roman authorities, leaving mostly "Gentile" Christians.  These Gentile Christians wanted to appease the Roman authorities and gain approval amongst Romans, in general, and therefore may have developed a propensity to discard almost anything that made them look Jewish, including The Divine Name.

See this blatant illogical statement, "MOST" Jewish Christians were killed but NOT ALL JEWISH Christians.

And the date conflict the evidence that WT provided that SOME GREEK MANUSCRIPTS CAN BE DATED BACK TO THE LAST APOSTLE who is John.
""Not only are there thousands of manuscripts to compare but discoveries of older Bible manuscripts during the past few decades take the Greek text back as far as about the year 125 C.E., just a couple of decades short of the death of the apostle John about 100 C.E. These manuscript evidences provide strong assurance that we now have a [size=14pt]dependable Greek text[/size] in refined form." All Scripture is Inspired of God and Beneficial p.319

So is it Jewish Christians who wrote those manuscripts or Jewish Christians where Lord and God were used?
[/hr]

Under these circumstances, we can see how most scriptures containing The Divine Name could  have been destroyed, leaving only copies that contained the substitutes, kyrios or theos.  Therefore, those who replaced the Tetragrammaton with "kyrios "in the both the OT and NT copies, were NOT the early disciples of Jesus; they were persons of later centuries, when the foretold apostasy was well developed and had corrupted the purity of Christian teachings.--2 Thessalonians 2:3; 1 Timothy 4:1.

I can't stop laughing the more you people continue to prove your false doctrine the you people discredit the Holy Bible.
Now your Author claimed that "we can see how most scriptures containing The Divine Name could have been destroyed,..."
Is there any evidence that Christians scriptures ever destroyed?

Therefore, in the days of Jesus and his disciples The Divine Name very definitely must have appeared in copies of the Holy Scriptures, both in Hebrew manuscripts and in Greek manuscripts.

Yet Jesus and his disciples never address the Father with this Divine name.

amii131:
wie heiben sie?

Guten Morgen
Ich heise Emusan, wo wohnen Sie?

Rilwayne001:
Lol. Ejó lo fèro

Bi iwó na se fèran ejó

My question is, is this holy spirit in talk the 3rd member of the trinity??

Where is the question in your post?

Don't derail this thread Mr man.

hadura29:
Super, und du?

Es geht

hadura29:
Guten tag, ich spreche ein bischen deutsch...

Gut, Wie geht's?

Rilwayne001:
Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:..... When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. [size=14pt] He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.[/size]

Please ponder on the embolded and the underlined part of the above verse(s) and tell me your observation(s)

As usual speaking from both side of your mouth (These verses are very TRUE and come from God when the whole Bible is not the word of God according to you), but thank God that you have the boldness to go further beyond verse 13 as that's the place all Muslims always stop because what the next two verses that follow it say, it's worrisome and eyes opening.

In fact had it been that the spirit of your prophet isn't in you, you won't see this VERY OBVIOUS VERSES that solely against your claim and still went ahead to quote them to support the coming of Muhammad in a corrupt Book (as Muslims always claim).

1. Do you mean Muhammad GLORIFIED Jesus Christ?
2. Do you mean ALL what Muhammad gave you Muslims ARE WHAT he TOOK from Jesus?
3. Who did Jesus refer to as FATHER?
4. Do you believe EVERYTHING THAT THE FATHER HAS is OWN BY Jesus Christ?

Yet you want someone to "Please ponder on the embolded and the underlined part of the above verse(s) and tell me your observation(s)" when the truth is staring at you.

amii131:
danke

Guten Abend,

Sprechen Sie deutsch?

hadura29:
Auf wiedersehen Namadi sambo., Wilkommen Prof. Osinbajo..

Guten Abend

Sprechen Sie deutsch?

kombo:
What are you trying to achieve with this? That will aid the advice

-Kombo

I want to edit the site to my taste.

kombo:
Ok Boss... I am sorry I doubted you.. forgive me

-Kombo

Evening, I've created a Child Theme for my WordPress do I need to copy all the files I need to edit from the parent theme to the child theme before I can start editing them or I can start to edit them from the parent theme directly?

Thanks.

Rilwayne001:
Except you want to use your 1+1+1= 1 again. you already admitted jesus was sent by GOD, isn't it? which means that [size=14pt]he acted by the WILL of GOD and not his.[/size]

I don't have time to waste on you about this but @bold

Nope. What I am trying to say is that, GOD is not just the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob alone, He is the God of the universe as a whole.

Then who says God is the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob ALONE?

Lol.

Leaving oladegbu to his faith…

because your question is baseless...

Rilwayne001:
Lol.
Good to know that you have also finally opened up that, Jesus was sent by GOD, which implies that he is not GOD almighty.

WHICH IMPLIES...I believe it's your own conclusion not mine.

Meanwhile, the jesus I know wasn't just sent by God of those noble men you mentioned, he was sent by the GOD of the universe as a whole.

So do you mean the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob isn't the God of the Universe as a whole?

Also, jesus wasn't sent to the world as a whole, he was sent to the house of israel.

As you can see, mr. oladegbu is trying to shy away from the point I raised, can you help him out?[/b]

No time for this...

RikoduoSennin:
@bold section, That is your own conclusion not JW's. JW's do read other translations. They have read the Bible and came to see that it is important, [size=14pt]infact the Isrealite used it very often-[/size] the Divine Name YHWH appears almost 7000 times in the bible,

@bold-this same Israelite believed God has seven name: "The number of divine names that require the scribe's special care is seven: El, Elohim, Adonai, Yhwh, Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh, Shaddai, and ?eba'ot." jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=52&letter=N (25/09/2005)

so why should we not use it often too.

Are you an Israelite?
And why did Jesus and His disciples didn't use it often?

Using the name shows you know THe Almighty God just like the Jews did and not the Samaritans.

Are you telling us that Jesus and His disciples don't know God for not using the name?

Rilwayne001:
YES, the 2 are not the same.

You've finally opened up that Jesus of Islam is different from Jesus Christ the Savoir of the World sent by God of Abraham, God of Isaac and God of Jacob.

RikoduoSennin:
@bold section, did I say anything like that?

I said that Jesus and his disciples USED THE DIVINE NAME IN THEIR EVERYDAY LIFE.

You didn't say the bold but you said Jesus and His Disciples USED THE DIVINE NAME IN THEIR EVERYDAY LIFE. What does it mean?

Does Jesus EVER CALL THE FATHER Jehovah/Yahweh?

I quoted John 17:6,26 to show you that Jesus made That Divine Name known to his Disciples.

And I ask you how does Jesus make this Divine name known SINCE JESUS NEVER CALLED THE FATHER JEHOVAH/YAHWEH?

Which is very hard for you to provide answer.

Luke 4:17-21; When Jesus read from the book of Isaiah, He read Isaiah 61:1,2 from a manuscript (most likely from the early Greek Septuagint LXX where the Divine Name occur in its Tetragrammaton form in capital Letters).

In the original Hebrew manuscript, [size=14pt]Isaiah 61:1,2 contains not the title "Lord God" but the Divine name in it tetragrammaton form (Please see the preface/forward section of your Bible).[/size] So the question remains, While reading Isaiah 61 to his audience, did Jesus shy away from using the Divine Name- thus replacing it with a Title like superstition lead many Jews during the first century to do?

@bold-that's the lie WT will also feed you people, The usage of Divine name has been lost and REPLACED many century before Jesus Himself was born. I challenge you to provide the evidence that the Divine name was still in use prior to time of Jesus or during the time of Jesus.

Your answer is @Page 2 of this forum:

Show me who provided the answer.

Hebrew 2:11 says "....I will proclaim THY NAME to my brethren....."

Mark 12:36; Jesus quoted from Psalm 110:1 which contains the Tetragrammaton in the original manuscript. Do you think Jesus replaced the divine name there too when he utter those words?

How does Jesus PROCLAIM THIS NAME? Answer my question with SCRIPTURE because I only know TWO OPTIONS how Jesus can do this.

1. That Jesus always called The Father with the Divine name, OR
2. Jesus teaches people to call The Father the Divine name.

So either number you choose Show me with scriptures support.

Lastly, The DIVINE NAME WAS NO MORE IN USE before Jesus was born so if it's necessary for us to use the Divine name IN FACT IT WAS JESUS WHO SUPPOSED TO BROUGHT IT INTO LIGHT.

Look at the chart below.

Abuamam:
Please read the explanation through. You have totally missed my point.

Your own is to point out where I've missed your points.

The prophet (saw) fought to defend Islam from its opponents. They drove him out from his home, tortured his followers, stole thwir possessions, still pursued them to where they were taking refuge in Abissinya and Medinah, connived with other pagans as well as Jews to destroy the Muslims, yet you blame him for fighting back? Ad one western orientalist says; the biggest grouse xtians have against Muhammad is that he did not give himself up for crucifiction. Islam never pretended to be an ingratiating religion. True Muslims do not oppress; and do not allow themselves to be oppressed either... justice is both ways.

So if Muhammad fought back because of what they did to him, what do you want disciples of Jesus who were humiliated and some crucified to do? AND what they did to Jesus' disciples/early Christians far worst than anything ever done to Muhammad, so why must he fight back?

If Muhammad fought because of what they did to him, his ALL his successors/followers do the same?

Baseless excuse...since you're not a believer of Bible I know you might say Jesus' disciple weren't humiliated.

Perhaps you would need to direct your question to the op. However, I would venture to guess that he is referring to the fact that the scriptures that were accepted as 'holy', did not remain consistent over time. Martin Luther did not accept the Catholic version of the canon in entirety after the reformation. Even today, the Catholic Bible contains 7 whole chapters not accepted by protestants or pentecostals. [size=14pt]This means that the Bible WAS changed.[/size]

@bold-if that's the case that means Qur'an has also been change, "Muhammad once told his followers to “Learn the recitation of the Qur’an from four: from Abdullah bin Masud—he started with him—Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifa, Mu’adh bin Jabal and Ubai bin Ka’b” (Sahih al-Bukhari 3808). Interestingly, [size=14pt]Ibn Masud (first on Muhammad’s list) held that the Qur’an should only have 111 chapters (today’s version has 114 chapters), and that chapters 1, 113, and 114 shouldn’t have been included in the Qur’an.[/size]

Because of this (along with hundreds of other textual differences), Ibn Masud went so far as to call the final edition of the Qur’an a deception! He said, “The people have been guilty of deceit in the reading of the Qur’an. I like it better to read according to the recitation of him [i.e. Muhammad] whom I love more than that of Zayd Ibn Thabit” (Ibn Sa’d, Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, Vol. 2, p. 444).

So using this line to attack the Holy Bible is meaningless.

In all truth, I do not think that. The more you learn, the more you realise just how little you know.

Then what is the point of thinking that a well educated Muslims can't convert to Christianity?

[size=14pt]No. The devil does not cause fights directly. Rather, he tries to eliminate Islam by creating internal discord and misunderstandings; as well as inciting unbelievers to fight Muslims.[/size]

Your first statement was "...fighting exists because the devil will not rest until the only way to Allah's Mercy is closed. That is his only job..."

But Devil can create internal discord and misunderstanding...so if Devil can do these why do you think Devil can't cause someone's life to be poor? as you accuse Christian believe the other time.

[quote]Xtians differ. Many pay lip service to xtianity, or just write it on a foem as a matter of habit. [size=14pt]It is no secret that churches in the West are emptying.[/size] In Europe, evangelicals are seen as oddballs. It is you who point to the fact that the [size=14pt]West is now secular,[/size] when we point to spreading homosexuality, fornication, gambling and military campaigns all over the globe. Yet you rush in to claim them as xtians when they invent some new technology or behave in a manner pleasing to you. Make up your mind already.

The @bold is funny, so as Churches in west get empty Mosques are getting FULL, right
@bold 2-So if west are NOW becoming secular does that mean Islam is the biggest populated religion in the west?
We are not talking of who invent or not my POINT HERE IS VERY CLEAR your claim was "...Some non-Muslim countries have already begun to see that violent opposition to Islamic extremists is actually counter productive, and are now seeking to better educate them Islamically, rather than fight them..." I then asked for this NON-MUSLIMS COUNTRIES that are now doing this GREAT WORK OF ELEVATING these brainwashed Muslims from killing to a well educated ones. You refer to WESTERN and I then asked LIST TWO OF THESE WESTERN COUNTRIES. You started talking another thing.

Again you deliberately misunderstand. [size=14pt]The catholic and other xtian missionaries did not permit standard Islamic studies in their schools.[/size] They imposed subjects like philosophy, and European history, to drive a wedge between the Muslim youth and their Islamic heritage. [size=14pt]The trend to educate Muslims in their religion is what xtians oppose.[/size] This is because they are impossible to convert. The ability to reason and the strength of faith through knowledge is very inimical to conversion through 'signs and wonders' and other forms of play on emotions.

So if west are doing this to Islam ALONE what of ARAB where Islam ORIGINATED FROM?
Do the ARAB deprive their Children of gaining well Islamic education so that they can support west too?
Now your problem is on Christian but forgotten that both Christians and Muslims live in the same world.

The last @bold got me crack my ribs, so it's Christian that suppose to be educating Muslims about their religion now.

Please who does Christians oppose this trend?

[size=14pt]The devil has been playing around with your Bible for centuries.[/size] It suits him to have you believe that Jesus 'manifests himself' to you, since that opens a door to the devil to put his own inspirations into you, under the guise of being Jesus... using this verse as proof. How many atrocities have pastors committed under the guise of commands from a 'manifestation' of Jesus or the 'holy spirit'? From impregnating parishioner's wives and daughters, to burning 'witches' out of little kids, to dispensing petrol as pineapple juice and grass as cake, to lining up bare naked spinsters and committing atrocities on them in public. The common thread...either Jesus or the Holy spirit told them to. [size=14pt]Common sense and morals leads us to believe that the devil told them to, regardless of what they think.[/size] And if the devil can appear to them, why not to you? Perhaps the message given to you is more subtly evil than impregnating twenty parishioners wives.

So is Devil who puts this verse there, I remember one thread we're talking about Bible being corrupted YET still support the prophecy of Muhammad you said that day that "if a VERSE is corrupted then the WHOLE is corrupted too

For your information this same John 14 has been used by Muslims scholars to prove that Bible actually prophesied about Muhammad, now if it is the Devil who put this verse there then Devil has also deceived you poeple.

The funny part is that, Muhammad claimed that Jibrl (Holyspirit) appeared to him YET all these atrocities were also common in his life that means Devil is the one that actually appeared to him as confirmed by you @bold 2.

The prophet Muhammad (saw) actually performed more miracles than Jesus according to extant sources, and taking the NT as authentic for the sake of argument. From feeding the multitudes, to producing water, to healing the sick, to driving out demons. I actually have a book titled; 'the one thousand and one miracles of the messenger of Allah'. [size=14pt]We just do not boast of them because they were a sign for those who were there. The Quran is our miracle for us today.[/size] Having said that, please tell me how many miracles did the prophet Abraham perform in your Bible? Does this decrease his status as a prophet?

Imaging you want to take the record of Jesus NT miracles as authentic JUST FOR ARGUMENT SAKE whereas your own Qur'an talks more of Jesus' miracles.

I can see your objection to Christians miracles since Allah has limited his power to a BOOK but my God: the Great YAHWEH, I AM THAT I AM, UNSEARCHABLE GOD, UNLIMITED IN POWER proves His power whenever man's power is limited any day any time any where.

Besides, does your Bible not say that only an evil and adulterous generation seeks for signs? What does that make you evangelicals/ pentecostals that are signs and wonders junkies?

Lol...so why does Allah show signs to this evil and adulterous generation when they asked Muhammad?

Mind you we're not seeking for Miracles to PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD as the Jews do to prove Jesus' Messianic which lead to that statement of Jesus that you misinterpreted but my Bible says wherever the SPIRIT OF THE LORD is, there's LIBERTY

Abuamam:
Neglected in the sense that they refused to learn its teachings and were attracted by the glamour of the West who had colonised them.

Try to help me understand something here, if actually this people left the teaching and tenets of Islam and ATTRACTED TO THE WESTERN who had colonized them, why are they still killing? Are western practice supported killing each other? Isn't it the same west that other religions live?

Which book? There have been books written by arab secularists, following the mindset of Attaturk and al Sisi, who called for reform and scrapping of Islam. Of course, they had followers in the Muslim world... [size=14pt]but they Muslim youth today, have largely seen through the lies of Western secularism and cut-throat capitalism.[/size] Hence the revival of Islamic teachings in their hearts. Unfortunately, the Islamic educational system was not ready for such a huge resurgence, [size=14pt]so many of the youth, filled with enthusiasm, had no means of acquiring the proper knowledge, and some fell into the wrong hands of those who, in ignorance, they perceived to be heroes.[/size] But as more Muslims slowly develop true understanding, it will be harder for such people to find recruits.

@bold 1-Is it the western secularism who put those verses into Qur'an?
@bold 2-Does Muhammad himself fill with enthusiasm or didn't acquire proper knowledge of Islam or fell into the wrong hands of anyone before he fought those war?
Do ALL Muhammad successors possess these weak attitudes before they conquered many places?

We are just discussing the issue. Actually, there is no question of a reformation to Islam. Islam is complete and perfect. Its tenets are established up to the Day of Judgement as the only way to God's Mercy and Forgiveness. [size=14pt]It is how Muslims misinterprete Islamic sources to suit personal ideology that needs to be corrected.[/size] Islam is a religion of evidence and reason. It preaches justice and moderation in all aspects of life...according to numerous narrations of the prophet (saw).

If the @bold is true, why the OP is talking about Christian reformation as if Christians change their Bible to suit today's world?

This is the point I'm making!

The era of the Quran and the Sunnah is for ever, [size=14pt]fighting exists[/size] because the devil will not rest until the only way to Allah's Mercy is closed. [size=14pt]That is his only job... not as you xtians believe; to reduce your worldly wealth or block your wife's womb...etc.[/size] The devil has no interest in whether you die rich or poor, or childless; and he knows he has no power over all these anyway. The devil just wants you to follow him to hell, that is all. Having known that, Muslims have been given permission to defend their right to practice their faith. Some Muslims ignorantly go to extremes and fight for political or other reasons. Again, access to standard Islamic education will correct all these, insha Allah.

Imaging this is coming from someone who think is knowledgeable than some people.

So Devil's only job is to fight! Devil's can't torment you either in the dream or physical, prevent you not to pray to Allah but can only make you to fight, no wonder Muhammad fought many war in his life time.

So that means Muhammad didn't access this STANDARD Islamic education too because History told me since the beginning of Islam Killing have been the other of the day.

If Muhammad nor any of his successors fought any WAR people can say truly something has went wrong somewhere i.e maybe these Muslims might have truly misinterpreted what Muhammad handed down to them but History proves this wrong because the way Muhammad killed that's how his successors killed.

Most of these countries are secular and detached from all forms of religion. Hence they are not blinded by the bigotry and hatred that xtians; especially evangelicals; seem to be full of.

List at least two of this western countries
Of course I know you'll use the word SECULAR but tell me any western country that is not Christian majority?

I have no problem with xtianity. I was a xtian once. [size=14pt]They have planted schools and hospitals, mostly the Catholics, at a period when Muslims were asleep and under colonial rule; with intention to win converts, and thereby benefited people in many ways, I readily admit that.[/size] But; to quote your Bible; what does it benefit man to gain the whole world and lose his soul?

You've no problem with Christian
You're once a Christians yet you believe some more KNOWLEDGEABLE people than you can't convert to Christianity?

@bold-But your initially claim was The only reason why most xtians oppose this trend is because they find it impossible to convert the well-educated Muslims,

Can you see the contradiction?

[size=14pt]As for Muslims that are more knowledgeable than myself becoming xtian, I doubt that such is possible.[/size] Of course, some so-called scholars do learn Islamic studies as a trade, [size=14pt]and never imbibe the teachings of Islam, so do become atheists.[/size] But even I, with my limited knowledge, can never imagine becoming a xtian for any reason whatsoever. Is it vision where the devil appears to me as Jesus? Is it 'miracle' worked by every self-respecting babalawo; and which are more likely to be stage managed than not? Is it unverified stories of travelling from Lagos to Benin on empty tank, or a piece of pastor's chair that heals ebola and HIV? Come on.

Anyone reading this your post can see that there's no element of TRUTH in you.

It's evident that you know Jesus still reveals Himself to people has He promised in the Holy Bible "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him." John 14:21 NKJV but you decided to call this wonderful encounter with Jesus as Devil's encounter.

NOTICE how many times the word LOVE appeared in that verse. Remember some Muslims do say WE LOVE Jesus more than Christians do but the truth is those Muslims who actually profess this statement wholeheartedly are the one Jesus truly revealed Himself to.

How will you believe in miracles when Muhammad never perform any?

JMAN05:
Thanks so much,but pls read that Thessalonians very well. Who was actually coming with an archangel's voice sir? And pls respond to that john 5:28, 29.

So why does your Organization teach that Jesus has come since 1914 when this same verse 1 Thessa 4:16 says "the Lord will DESCEND with a SHOUT..." did Jehovah witness hear this shout in 1914?

Abuamam:
The Quran is uncorruptible and was never lost. It was Muslims who neglected it, and the teachings of Islam..

I always laugh at the way you reason sometimes, if MUSLIMS NEGLECTED QURAN how then was it preserved?

even Arabs; getting drowned in the man-made theories of 'democracy', 'communism' and 'socialism', and selling their souls for the wealth of this world... except for a few who retained their faith.

And you believe that when they drowned themselves in MAN-MADE this view was not incorporated into their book to make it more supportive.

But recently, many more Muslims are becoming knowledgeable about the true tenets of Islam; which was suppressed under the era of colonisation and Arabisation.

So what is the essence of this thread when some people have actually suppressed its tenets, which now called for open understanding?

There is a strong Islamic revival under way.

You called it REVIVAL but Christians called it REFORMATION which is let everybody understand CHRISTIANITY by themselves.

However, there are Muslims who have more enthusiasm than knowledge, and tend to be extreme in their view; while Islam teaches us to be moderate and wise in all dealings. With more access to standard Islamic educational facilities, we hope that such knowledge will be accessible to all Muslims from their youth, and so there will be less trend to act impulsively and more of a trend to wisdom and moderation as Islam preaches, and the recruitment pool of the ignorant extremists will gradually reduce, and their ideology gradually die down.

Well this is actually the reformation Islam needs with the view of civilization to see that era of Muhammad time has passed but now the need to follow the era of LOVE which Jesus preached has come.

Because from the foundation of Islam by Muhammad himself, followed by his successors till date killing has been part of Islam, why must it be like that? was it because Muhammad himself is enthusiasm and extreme or he's moderate in his dealings?

Some [size=14pt]non-Muslim countries[/size] have already begun to see that violent opposition to Islamic extremists is actually counter productive, and are now seeking to better educate them Islamically, rather than fight them. So we are on the way insha Allah. [size=14pt]The only reason why most xtians oppose[/size] this trend is because they find it impossible to convert the well-educated Muslims, and this will hit their pastors' pockets hard. Hence they want Muslims to remain ignorant, and to continue to point to the ignorant ones as 'true' Muslims so as to dupe the ignorant maajority...though of course, they will never admit that.

@bold 1-So these non-muslims countries are they Pagan or Christian?
@bold 2-I can see your problem with Christianity, yet Christians Missionaries always plant school any where they go including Muslims communities while Muslims never done 10% of such movement.
@underline-So what of those WELL EDUCATED Muslims (even know Qur'an & Hadith more than you) who have converted to Christians or Atheist?

lanrexlan:
Much than you can ever think.

And this is hard for you to say

Do you know how many Muslims THAT were killed in Spain by crusaders for not accepting Christianity?

@underline-that's a lie, the crusades were not carried out FOR PEOPLE to accept Christianity BUT TO RE-CONQUERED Jerusalem and its territories which have been conquered by Islam. Muslims started it all. Just like what happened in Kaduna where Muslims have been killing Christians and the Christians rose up one day and start killing the Muslims back.

Mind you I didn't say the crusader didn't kill Muslims but my point here is THEY DIDN'T KILL THEM TO ACCEPT Christianity.

It is the people that needs reformation and not Islam. People need to get enlightened about what the scriptures say and not blind following what their leaders told them without verifying it.

Now if it's people who need reformation, isn't it the INTERPRETATION this people gave to Qur'an that needs to be reformed?

This makes your thread useless.

You don't change Islam to fit you, you can CHANGE yourself to fit into Islam.

The point is what Islam actually teaches that people need to change themselves to that Arabs Muslims didn't know?

Abuamam:
The true knowledge of Islam [SIZE=14PT]must be re-instated[/size] in order to STOP these killings.

So people never have this true knowledge of Islam since over 1000 years of Islam existence?

Are you telling me that even the Arabs where Islam itself originated from don't have this true knowledge?

CAPTIVATOR:
Swallow this truth bro .

Malachi 3:1
Douay-Rheims Bible

Behold I send my angel, and he shall
prepare the way before my face. And
presently the Lord, whom you seek, and
The angel of the testament , whom you
desire, shall come to his temple. Behold
he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts


Darby Bible Translation

Behold, I send my messenger, and he
shall prepare the way before me; and
the Lord whom ye seek will suddenly
Come to his temple, and the Angel of
the covenant , whom ye delight in:
behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of
hosts.

You call this a truth to support your false doctrine, then how can you ignore the first statement which refers to John the Baptist?

Douay-Rheims Bible
"Behold I send my angel, and he shall
prepare the way before my face..."

Darby Bible Translation
"Behold, I send my messenger, and he
shall prepare the way before me;..."

Is John the Baptist an Angel?

lanrexlan:
[size=14pt]You can only reform man made ideas, not the creator's path in which he has chosen for mankind.[/size] Allah says in So set you„your face towards the religion of pure Islamic Monotheism Hanifa (worship none but Allah Alone) Allah's Fitrah (i.e. Allah's Islamic Monotheism), with which He has created mankind. No change let there be in Khalq-illah (i.e. the Religion of Allah Islamic Monotheism), that is the straight religion, but most of men know not.

At bold what do you even know about Christian reformation?

Do you think people were bombing or beheading people for not accepting Christianity or some man-made doctrine as you rightly said that was reformed?

So all this killing must continue in Islam since it was Allah wrote them.

kombo:
Disable all plugins... try again... if it works... activate plugins one after the other and test so you can identify the particular plugin causing this... else... holla...make we yarn next step

Thanks for your respond but I've done that yet the message is still coming.

Does it mean the Child theme is not working or functioning?

Though it appears in my dashboard.

Sanuzi:
Lets Talk:

Mobile/Whatsapp: 07038641600

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Webpagemaker,Frontpage, wordpress, joomla, drupal,
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Please I created a Child theme for my site in WordPress and I'm getting this error message when I preview the child theme:

Warning: require(): Filename cannot be empty in /home/propert7/public_html/wp-includes/theme.php on line 1861

Fatal error: require(): Failed opening required '' (include_path='.:/usr/lib/php:/usr/local/lib/php') in /home/propert7/public_html/wp-includes/theme.php on line 1861

What can cause this?


cc: @dwebdesign

BIBLESPEAKS:
Never have I seen or even heard of a representative of a president for example, being addressed with the name of the president.

So if a President representative was to be called in the occasion how will you address the person?

[size=14pt]The minister of Agriculture - Dr Akinwumi when representing Mr President - Dr Goodluck Ebele Jonathan[/size] cannot then bear his name. As a representative, he bears his name - Dr Akinwumi but he represents the presidency and so he does as he's instucted to do. Whatever achievement comes thereafter from the arrangement is Attributed to Mr President.

This is a pure lie, you can't CALL him Dr Akinwumi just like that while he was representing Mr President in an occasion.

The person names involve are Dr Goodluck & Akinwumi while the Title are President & The Minister of Agriculture, therefore Akinwumi can't be called Goodluck in a normal sense but can be addressed with the TITLE Mr President (on that very occasion-which means he is FULLY IN PERSON OF THE Mr President even though he is not THE REAL President)

Jesus will carry out a task that he was appointed by Yahweh to do - Acts 17:31
Yahweh in effect achieves his purposed through Jesus.

So that means YAHWEH has come as He promised in the OT, True or False!

BIBLESPEAKS:
Yahweh didn't change his mind.

Jesus is a representation of Yahweh (he does nothing of his will but the will of Yahweh). By appointing Jesus as the one to Judge mankind (Acts 17:30, 31), it is really not change because Jesus does the will of Yahweh.

Its like a president saying: "I will be at the conference next week", but sending a representative. That representative will be briefed by the president on what to do.

So also, by appointing Jesus as judge, Yahweh is still the Judge.

Jesus is being given responsibilities in the Bible, another of which is being king of God's kingdom. But notice what the scripture below says:

1cor 15:27, 28 - For yahweh subjected all things under his(Jesus) feet. But when he says 'all things have been subjected,' it is evidently that this does not include the one who subjected all things to him. 28. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the son himself will also subject himself to the one who subjected all things to him, That Yahweh may be all things to everyone.


Jesus is an appointed judge. Yahweh appointed him, so he does Yahweh's will. So Yahweh is the chief Judge.

Since you said that Yahweh didn't change His mind that means you agreed with the second option which is Yahweh has come!

As Jesus is Yahweh's representative then is it wrong to address Jesus with the NAME YAHWEH (Jehovah) since every representative ALWAYS takes the address of whosoever he/she represented?

enilove:
The problem with OP is that he is trying to rewrite the Bible.
The verses the OP quoted are diff from what is written in the Bible :

Psalm 96:6, 13 KJV
Honour and majesty are before him: strength and beauty are in his sanctuary. [13] Before the Lord : for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.

Isaiah 66:15 KJV
For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Psalm 50:3 KJV
Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.



Zechariah 14:13-15 KJV
And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. [14] And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. [15] And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.


Most Christians think and assumed that the old testaments talk only about Jehovah and never mentioned Jesus. Many believe their pastors more than the plainly written word of God.
A simple example can be seen when Jesus appeared to Abraham in :

Genesis 18:1-3, 16-17, 20-24, 26 KJV
And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; [2] And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them , he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, [3] And said, My Lord, ( NOT MY LORDS ) if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: [16] And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way. [17] And the Lord said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; [20] And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; [21] I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. [22] And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord . [23] And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? [24] Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? [26] And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.

These verses above indicate that Abraham spoke physically with the Lord . But can any man see the Father and be alive? Definitely not . The "Lord" that Abraham spoke with was Jesus .
It also supports the fact that it is Jesus that will come and give judgements in the last day . He said "the cry which come unto me ". The angels report to Jesus .

Another fact to show that Jesus is mentioned in the old testament and to judge the world is this :

Psalm 110:1-2, 4-6 KJV
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. [2] The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. [4] The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. [5] The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath. [6] He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.

KJV differentiate BTW Jehovah and Jesus in verses above by using Capital letters to show Jehovah, "LORD" and Jesus as "Lord".

Take note of d foll .

The LORD has sworn ,and will not repent ,"Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek .

The Lord "at thy right hand shall ......

He shall judge ............

Who is a priest for ever after Melchizedek? Jesus
Who sits at the right hand of God ? Jesus
Who did psalm 110 say will judge the world ? Jesus.

It is there4 wrong and misleading to replace the word "Lord" with "Yahweh" in the Bible because it is used for Jesus Christ as well.

In essence what you're saying now is that Jesus was the actual one ALL the OT prophecies (of coming to Judge the earth) referring to, right?

semasir:
What platform do you intend to learn- CMS like WordPress, Joomla or HTML/PHP?

Please can you help me a code for real estate search OR how can I create search form?

Thanks