₦airaland Forum

RikoduoSennin:
Is "The Lord" a Name, do you know the meaning of a Name?

Figure that out.

Do research! YHWH is the divine name.

I'm still waiting for you to give me the verse where Jesus and the disciples address the Father as Jehovah.

Abuamam:
You are just trying to play a fast one.

And you're trying to be...

[size=14pt]First, a book being corrupt does not mean that everything in it is fake.[/size] We believe that your current NT contains words narrated about Jesus, or [size=14pt]incorporating things he MIGHT have said.[/size] Problem is, there is no way to ascertain that he actually DID say all those things attributed to him.

I will continue to bold your illogical statement

The emphasis is @underline part, since it doesn't mean that EVERYTHING is fake, how can you know precisely the ONES that are correct and the ONES that are incorrect?


So what if the ONE Muslim scholars are claiming to be Jesus words are finally the ones they incorporating with Jesus?

You can't eat your cake and have it.

[size=14pt]Second, there are verses which have been acknowledged by CHRISTIAN bible scholars as being interpolated.[/size] The authorship of the whole Bible is in doubt (apart from some of Paul's letters). The mere fact that false authorship was attributed to certain chapters, makes the whole book suspect (I said SUSPECT). For example, no way did Moses write his obituary at the end of Deuteronomy. There are many such examples.

The bold section is a wrong information about the Holy Bible, interpolation as you may believe CAN ONLY be said to appear in the TRANSLATOR'S VERSIONS not in the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT. I hope you can differentiate between ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT and TRANSLATION.

All the Greek manuscripts in possession today were dated back to 100BC long before even Muhammad came into the scene.

About authorship your argument here is baseless, you know why? Because that can also be said about Qur'an and Muhammad. Muhammad isn't the one who wrote Qur'an with his own hands. If you care to read more about Christian analysis of Bible authorship you would've know the truth i.e scholars agree that Joshua actually completed the last part of Deuteronomy remember he was with Moses right from Egypt.

Third, we assert that if ONLY ONE verse is interpolated, or removed or changed, [size=14pt]therefore the whole cannot be the word of the Almighty.[/size] And we also assert that if there is one interpolated verse, there could be another and another and another.

See how you contradicted yourself, you said before "First, a book being corrupt does not mean that everything in it is fake."
But for you to continue living in delusion you later claim "Third, we assert that if ONLY ONE verse is interpolated, or removed or changed, [size=14pt]therefore the whole cannot be the word of the Almighty.[/size]

Now it's evident that Muslims are confuse fellow.

What I want from you now is to tell me that Muhammad was prophecy in the corrupt Bible OR no prophecy of Muhammad was in this corrupt Bible, then this discussion will end.

Fourth and for the nth time, we do not use the Bible verses, authentic or not, to prove the existence of our prophet (saw). [size=14pt]We use it as a witness against YOU,[/size] who believe that it is all from God; even with all the evidence to the contrary.

Imaging you're using a CORRUPT BOOK as a witness...and this witness will then prove that Muhammad was actually prophesied in this CORRUPT BOOK.

[size=14pt]Fifth, we know that any verse in conflict with the Quran MUST be a later interpolation.[/size] We also know that some, like the one you mentioned above, COULD be from Jesus. There are others, such as whether he was born in Bethlehem or not, whether he went to Galilee or not; about which we say 'God knows best'. These could be true, or could be false. A verse saying 'thus says the Lord' could still be an interpolation depending on its content. We know that the Lord cannot invite mankind to associate sons and daughters with Him.

Even if the place that the saying THUS SAYS THE LORD is ACTUALLY TRUE but since it against Islam or Muhammad it must be INTERPOLATION.

Imaging another thing could be from Jesus when you're already said IF ONE VERSE is interpolated, Change, Removed THE WHOLE CAN'T BE FROM ALMIGHTY

This is an evidence that Muslims truly know that Jesus' actual words were recorded in the Bible but decided to chose the one they like and reject the ones that against them.

So your implication that any verse that starts with "thus says the Lord..." is automatically accepted as authentic by Muslims, is patently false and designed to make the xtian win the imaginary argument.

Can you provide evidence where I said this?

Hope you now comprehend our exact position on your Bible.

Your position is coarse and contradictory.

You want to eat your cake and still have it.

You don't want to accept Bible as the Word of God, FULL with contradictions & interpolations [b]but on the other hands YOU STILL WANT US TO BELIEVE THAT Muhammad was prophesied in this same CORRUPT BOOK and Muslims were ONLY USING THIS CORRUPT BOOK as a WITNESS to Christians.

Finally, I can see you totally omitted the part in my post where I said despite the fact that the Jews don't accept Jesus as The Messiah YET Christians never condemned their book not speak horrible statement against it instead they accepted their book BUT Islam on the other hands TERMED both Jews and Christians books as Corrupt, NOT WORD OF GOD, contradictory YET claiming it still contain the prophecy about Muhammad, what do you have to say?

RikoduoSennin:
I made typhographical error, I was not contracting myself, you simply saw what you saw!

Instead of you to admit your fault you're still proving right,
Why should I even take you serious when you can't distinguish between TYPO and OMISSION of word in a sentence?

Read John 17:6,26 " Jesus said He made A NAME not a Title known", What name was he talking about?

The name we know today.
I can see how you're stylishly dodging my request: Give JUST A SINGLE VERSE where Jesus addresses the Father as Jehovah...not only Jesus also the Apostles Yet no single verse can be produce uopn your claim that JESUS used the Divine name.

@bold section above: Why did Jesus made known or manifest THE FATHER's NAME TO THE MEN YHWH GAVE HIM @ John 17:6,26?

For attestation of His coming from The Father...
I'll now direct the question back to you, HOW was Jesus made known or manifested the Father's name to those men?

Can you replace everywhere you find 'YHWH' or the word 'NAME' with the word 'Power' in the Bible without altering the meaning of that passage?

The underline shows that you fully understood me.

[size=14pt]Jesus used the Divine Name,[/size] if he didn't he would have been LYING @ John 17:6,26. He told that Name to his Disciples, why? For them not to use it?

Ofcourse, [size=14pt]Jesus what is disciples to use the Divine Name.[/size]

I guess you mean TAUGHT in place of WHAT here---if so this is what we call TYPO ERROR.
@bold sections-where was Jesus used the DIVINE NAME and TAUGHT HIS Followers to use the Name maybe the place has been removed by Trinitarians?

And I will now ask you too, since there's no evidence in the Greek Scriptures where Jesus addresses the Father as Jehovah nor taught His disciples to address Him as Jehovah, why Jehovah Witness interpreted John 17:6, 26 as Jesus declared the Divine name?

Shockingly, can you give me just A SINGLE SCHOLAR who ever interpreted this verses as Jesus talking about The DIVINE NAME?

This is how you will know that your point is baseless, the Divine name has lost its real meaning, pronunciation and actual Alphabet before Jesus Christ came so if Jesus and His followers used the Divine name that would have been and avenue to get the proper pronunciation, meaning and Alphabets but nothing like that was recorded in History.

You don't follow my arguments at all, you care more about 'fights of words'. Tell me, Jerome mentioned that Matthew wrote his book originally in Hebrew; In the New testament books, how many book did Matthew write? - ONE, How many other books were written originally in Greek
? - The majority, hence my phrase " His disciples (plural) who wrote the Christian Greek scripture (another name for New testament books since majority of those books were written originally in greek). I still don't understand how all this relate to the thread.

Were you not the one who brought the issue up to support the disciples using the Divine name? Now you're asking how it related to the topic.

Beside you miss the part where you said Matthew wrote his book in Hebrew which make it ORIGINAL and WRITER whereas you later said The TRANSLATION is original too.

Are you saying that Jesus and his disciples DID NOT USE THE DIVINE NAME? What was their reasons for NOT using the Name their ancestors used so frequently? The superstition?

I thought you have a phone/pc with internet, finding out when the Divine Name was removed from the Bible shouldn't be that hard. Some Bible translation preface section should be of help.

If they used it kindly show us where and where they do so...

Lol...so it's me to search now not you, in fact had been you can yield to your own advice you would've discovered the name was no more in use for some centuries before Jesus came which would have been an opportunity for Jesus to restore the name.

Because you don't follow my Train of thought, even with my typho you should have figured out what I am trying to say, instead you see my typho as me contradicting myself. Also try to read in between the lines, ask questions- why is Riko saying this? It help you to see where I am coming from.

If your post was TYPO that's would have been better BUT YOU OMITTED a WORD which change the meaning of your sentence.

Learn the different between a typo and omission.

Abuamam:
Google is your friend here. Alternatively, you can find numerous books on how the Quran was preserved; from both truthful/ untruthful orientalists and Muslims.

So is there no book about how Bible was preserved; from both truthful/untruthful orientalist and Christians too?

We don't know... God knows best. [size=14pt]The verse could be as corrupt as its sister verses.[/size]

Now you don't KNOW.
@bold-if the verses COULD BE as corrupt as the rest, so all this while Muslim clerics have been using Bible to prove the coming of Muhammad from the Bible means they are using corrupt book to support their claim.

See how illogical it is:

Christian: Bible is the word of God
Muslim: No, Bible is not the word of God
Christian: Why did you say that?
Muslim: Because it's a corrupt book (many contradictions and mixing up of pagan doctrines)
Christian: Then how come prophecy of Muhammad's coming can still be found in this book which is not the word of God, contains many contradictions and pagan doctrines?
Muslim: You see not all the part that corrupt, SOME PART were actually TRUE.
Christian: How do you know that?
Muslim: You can find such word like Thus says the Lord, God says or Jesus' saying...
Christian: Really!!! But there are some places in the BIBLE where we read the phrase Thus says the Lord, God says or Jesus' saying that against Islam and Muhammad.
Muslim: We don't know...God knows the best...

But we don't use the Bible to justify our religion. [size=14pt]We just show you how ambiguous it is; and if you can claim to use the OT to prove Jesus is the Messiah, (incidentally, the jews who WROTE the OT disagree),[/szie] we can also prove that the prophet (saw) is in both OT and NT; using the standards YOU set (which ultimately is why you disagree too).

AMBIGUOUS You show me how ambiguous it is by proving to me that Muhammad was actually prophecy in the Bible (Remember there even a verse in the Qur'an that openly stated that Muhammad was spoken of in their Book)

Now see the different between Muslims and Christians;
Despite the fact that Christians use OT to prove to a Jew that Jesus is the MESSIAH [b]YET Christians don't say their (Jews) BOOK is not God's word, Contradictory, Ambiguous and Corrupted that's why Christians can ADD their book together with their OWN book.

But in case of Muslims they raised all these allegations against BOTH JEWS & CHRISTIAN BOOKS and still claimed the coming of their master can be found IN THESE CORRUPTED, Contradictory, NON-God's Word and Ambiguous books.

How pathetic it sounds?

Abuamam:
Sorry, I did not see your question before.

No problem

First, Allah said He gave Jesus the INJEEL. Why it was translated as the 'Gospel' is best known to the translator.

Is it what the translator chooses OR the MEANING OF THE WORD GOSPEL? Please don't bust my stomach with laugh ooo

Secondly, for a more proper understanding of what 'Gospel' is meant here, see

Matthew 4:23 Matthew 9:35 Mark 1:14-15 Luke 4:43 and Luke 8:1

THAT would be the 'Gospel' Jesus preached, not Paul's letters or the 4th century writings falsely attributed to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

The MOST funnies and ridiculous thing about your point here is that according to you Paul's letters or 4th century writing were FALSELY ATTRIBUTED TO Matthew, Mark, Luke and John BUT YOU CAN STILL REFER ME TO THE SAME Matthew, Mark & Luke

Now let's just agree that, that's what Jesus actually teaches Matthew 4:23 says [b]And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel (Good NEWS) of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people."
Matthew 9:35 " 35 ¶ Then Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel (Good NEWS) of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people."

Mark 1:14-15 "14 ¶ Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel (Good NEWS) of the kingdom of God, 15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

Luke 4:43 "but He said to them, "I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, because for this purpose I have been sent."
Luke 8:1 "Now it came to pass, afterward, that He went through every city and village, preaching and bringing the glad tidings (GOSPEL) of the kingdom of God. And the twelve were with Him, NKJV (bracket, bold, italic-mine)[/b]

So if these are Jesus' statements the question still remains what is the GOOD NEWS about the KINGDOM of God that Jesus is preaching?-At least this Good NEWS must be something that NOBODY EVER HEARS ABOUT before.

Why must it be ONLY Jesus that was given Good NEWS to preach among the prophets as you believe?

Lastly, you have short yourself in the legs if you actually believe these because in every where the word GOSPEL or Glad Tidings/Good News appears as we read it in the above verses it connotes PREACHING and not A BOOK as Muhammad and Allah claimed.

JMAN05:
Sir, what is the right name God gave to Mary for the name "Jesus" in Hebrew? And how are u writing and pronouncing that name now? Are u using the accurate one God gave?

How do Jews write and vocalize what u call "isaiah" today? Are using the one God gave?

What do u mean having there root forms in Hebrew, and how did Isaiah, Jesus and Jeremiah fit in?

You're still repeating the same shiit...

Let me help you this time around for the last time...for instance the name Jesus in Hebrew is Yehshua and when the Greek NT writers who ALSO understood Hebrew will write it in Greek they USED GREEK EQUIVALENT word let me ask you "Does the NT writers wrong with their Greek word for Yehshua? for had it been that the Divine name for God in Hebrew was USED BY THE GREEK WRITERS what Martini formulated wouldn't have occurred.

You are not up against pronunciation, then your op is useless.

How

For ur information, most scholars prefer Yahweh cos they are seeking the correct vocalization. And our question is, why don't they do such for other names? Is it not glaring that english is not interested in accurate pronunciation?

NOT ONLY IN VOCALIZATION...habaaaa
YAHWEH has a FORM in HEBREW but JEHOVAH doesn't

Again, until you start pronouncing all Hebrew names as jews do, you are not to be taken serious. I wonder why u want to use "y" when God's name comes into play and use "j" when Christ's name is discussed. Is it only God's name u want to use "y" for? Why not all other names? You guys are certainly not serious.

For argument on pronunciation, see:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah

I'm very sure you're not sincere with yourself if you actually read the link you gave.

1) The link is totally against your claim:

Under Pronunciation
i) Jehovah (/dʒɨˈhoʊvə/ jə-HOH-və) is a Latinization of the Hebrew יְהֹוָה, one vocalization of the Tetragrammaton יהוה (YHWH), the proper name of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible. [size=14pt]This vocalization has been transliterated as "Yehowah",[1] while YHWH itself has been transliterated as "Yahweh".[/size]

ii) Karaite Jews,[14] as proponents of the rendering Jehovah, state that although the original pronunciation of יהוה has been obscured by disuse of the spoken name according to oral Rabbinic law, well-established English transliterations of other Hebrew personal names are accepted in normal usage, such as Joshua, Isaiah or Jesus, for which the original pronunciations may be unknown.

iii) Early modern translators disregarded the practice of reading Adonai (or its equivalents in Greek and Latin, Κύριος and Dominus)[22] in place of the Tetragrammaton and instead combined the four Hebrew letters of the Tetragrammaton with the vowel points that, except in synagogue scrolls, accompanied them, resulting in the form Jehovah.

Under Development
i) [color=brown]The most widespread theory is that the Hebrew term יְהֹוָה has the vowel points of אֲדֹנָי (adonai).[28] Using the vowels of adonai, the composite hataf patah ֲ under the guttural alef א becomes a sheva ְ under the yod י, the holam ֹ is placed over the first he ה, and the qamats ָ is placed under the vav ו, [size=14pt]giving יְהֹוָה (Jehovah).[/size] When the two names, יהוה and אדני, occur together, the former is pointed with a hataf segol ֱ under the yod י and a hiriq ִ under the second he ה, giving יֱהֹוִה, to indicate that it is to be read as (elohim) in order to avoid adonai being repeated.

ii) Taking the spellings at face value may have been as a result of not knowing about the Q're perpetuum, [size=14pt]thus resulting in the term "Jehovah" and its spelling variants.[30][31] Emil G. Hirsch was among the modern scholars that recognized "Jehovah" to be "grammatically impossible"[29][/size]

Under Discourses Rejecting and Defending Jehovah

Summary of discourses
In A Dictionary of the Bible (1863), William Robertson Smith summarized these discourses, [size=14pt]concluding that "whatever, therefore, be the true pronunciation of the word, there can be little doubt that it is not Jehovah".[85][/size] Despite this, he consistently uses the name Jehovah throughout his dictionary and when translating Hebrew names. Some examples include Isaiah [Jehovah's help or salvation], Jehoshua [Jehovah a helper], Jehu [Jehovah is He]. In the entry, Jehovah, Smith writes: "JEHOVAH (יְהֹוָה, usually with the vowel points of אֲדֹנָי; but when the two occur together, the former is pointed יֱהֹוִה, that is with the vowels of אֱלֹהִים, as in Obad. i. 1, Hab. iii. 19:"[86] This practice is also observed in many modern publications, such as the New Compact Bible Dictionary (Special Crusade Edition) of 1967 and Peloubet's Bible Dictionary of 1947.

The second line of your ridiculous statement was found missing, the emphasis you made on J & Y which never occur in the link

The third line of your statement that scholars prefer using Yahweh because they're seeking correct VOCALIZATION is also refuted as we can see that since the development of the name is wrong then the pronunciation will also wrong.

Waiting for another excuse you'll come with...

Abuamam:
Of course. We need to learn all the [size=14pt]details of our Quran before we can claim to have knowledge in Islam...[/size] that is the basic step.

So how was Qur'an constituted? Since you want him/her to do research on how the gospel was constituted.

I think I pointed out that [size=14pt]SOME few verses in the book might have been transmitted correctly from Jesus' sayings.[/size] It is only that too much doctrine of greek philosophers and Roman paganism has been mixed in.

So how do you know THE EXERT ONE transmitted correctly (even though you're not sure by using 'MIGHT') by the same person who mixed Roman paganism with his writing? Because there are many Jesus' saying that against Islam and Muhammad himself.

I guess Muslims only chose the one they like and leave the one that doesn't support their religion even though it's still the same JESUS' SAYING.


What a confuse fellow.

Abuamam:
Like the vast majority of the flock, you really have no idea about how your gospel was constituted. I advice that you research deeper into Bible history, and clear your mind of these misconceptions. Nothing that I said came from me; it was all postulated by REAL doctors of divinity and Bible historians, perhaps you should take a look at what these people have to say and take a break from your uneducated pastors; who are selling your soul for their mess of pottage (read huge mansions and private jets).

Do you take your time to research about your Qu'ran too?

Like I said earlier how irrational it is to think that a book was fabricated and at the same time this same FABRICATED books talk about the coming of your master.

Abuamam:
Lol. Not everything is black OR white. There are different shades of grey. The NT is probably one of them; mostly sand, but with a little garri mixed in [size=14pt](you know, the part about the prophecy).[/size]

The part about the prophecy is correct EVEN ON THE SAME CHAPTER but the rest are incorrect

The large amount of sand makes it unpalatable sha. [size=14pt]In any case, which Muslim told you that Islam relies[/size] on the corrupt NT prophecying our prophet (saw)? We KNOW that this news is in the original gospel preached by Prophet Isa (Jesus if you like).

Go online and see how Islamic clerics have been using Bible both from OT & NT to support the coming of Muhammad.

So what happened to original Gospel?

The question I'm still asking Muslims which I never get answer to is, GOSPEL means Good tiding or Good news and Allah said he gave Isa THE Gospel, please what is the GOOD TIDING or GOOD NEWS is all about? Why Must Isa be given THE GOSPEL as a BOOK among all the prophets?

Abuamam:
Really? Is it there? That shows that the 'Q' source might have retained a little truth then.
Don't blame me anyway. The 'Q' source is proven by your own scholars.

We're not talking about scholars here.
Does NT prophecy the coming of Muhammad and Islam as many Muslim scholars have said? If yes! then anything you say about the NT BOOKS is against you. If No! then you can go further.

If there is anything I learnt from pentecostal xtians on NL, this is it.

Continue then since you learnt it here

Yes, if the thread is st.upid.

THREAD STU.PID

Abuamam:
This post reminds me [size=14pt]how Matthew Mark and Luke copied source 'Q'. This is how the xtians created the NT.[/size]

Yet Muslims can find the prophecy of Muhammad and Islam in these created NT books. Abi

You just like trolling on thread that doesn't even concern you.

@op. Check how many times this same post was put up on NL.

Any problem in re-creating old thread on Niaraland?

JMAN05:
The people's familiarity has always been the bane, [size=14pt]not accuracy.[/size]

Now let's assume that someone just wake up and give God a name and people have familiar with it before God Himself told Moses about His name, you will say the one people already familiar with should be choosing not THE ACCURATE one God gave.

So you agree now that NWT didn't use ACCURATE name for God but the one people familiar with.

While calling Jesus, Jeremiah or Isaiah, we don't fight because we want to say it the way the Jewish man does. No! If anyone is making a case on accurate pronunciation, let him also pronounce all other names the way Jews do. If not, he is not to be taken serious.

This is the reason I took my time to educate you about the purpose of this thread, NOBODY SAY YOU SHOULD PRONOUNCE IT THE WAY JEWS ARE PRONOUNCING THEIR NAME but the name any language adopted from other language MUST HAVE THEIR ROOT/FORM FROM THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE (Jehovah doesn't have any FORM in Hebrew)

I've said this in my early post both Jeremiah, Jesus, Isaiah were USED BY THE GREEK WRITERS which means those name have their ROOT/FORM in equivalent of it in Hebrew. Unless if you want to tell me the Greek writers used a wrong form Hebrew name in Greek.

This problem wouldn't have occurred if the Greek writers USED GREEK EQUIVALENT WORD OF THE HEBREW DIVINE NAME of God.

No one knows the way it was pronounced then. Even Yahweh is not generally agreed by scholars to be the right way of pronouncing it.

Who are the scholars who disagree about the use of YAHWEH?

dolphinheart:
Yep, I ran away cus I realized you thought I was trying to refute you.

So what is the essence of joining this thread and quoting me if not because you want to refute my point

Secondly , on who is a Christian , [size=14pt]it was not a statement but one of the questions I was hoping u answer in which ur refusal to answer quickened my resolve to run away[/size]

@bold part-I know what you're driving at that's why I gave you infallible evidence from your own organization.

Because the point you want to bring out is TRUE CHRISTIANS can't be a WORSHIPER OF JESUS CHRIST (am I lying?). So with this line of your reasoning I gave you those fact from your own organization. Which means if TRUE CHRISTIANS can't be a worshiper of Jesus Christ then nobody among early Jehovah Witness is a true Christian talk less of being among the HOLY ONES/LITTLE FLOCK since they worship Jesus for good 54years and proclaimed Jesus instead of announcing Jehovah before the teaching changed.

CAPTIVATOR:
" all of these, although they receive a favourable witness because of their faith , did not obtain the fulfilment of the promise" - Heb 11:39

So which fulfillment of promise they did not obtain?

Anyway Thats ur homework, if it was an humble person that asked , I would have gave the answer .. NOT YOU .

Peace !

But you can reply the rest of my post...mtcheeeee

Again, how does the world benefit from Jesus' death?

dolphinheart:
You re right .
[size=14pt]Had to run and flee too[/size] when I saw humility and straight forwardness leave the discussion table. The cup of endless un-stopable laughter is not what I want from a discussion , so ill gladly let anyone have it .

You simply ran because nothing in my post you can refute. The saying "Jehovah witnesses know the truth but they decided to live in deceit is true."

I'm still waiting for you to tell me who are the True Christians, remember your statement "Who is a Christian , a worshiper of Jesus or a follower of Jesus teachings, ways and commandments.

JMAN05:
Fine one. [size=14pt]Until he starts to pronounce Isaiah, Jesus , Jeremiah etc the way the Jews do,[/size] don't take him serious.

The bold section especially THE UNDERLINE is where you miss the point of this thread, this is the same mistake you made above contrasting Y & J which I didn't bother to reply you because you didn't refer to me in your post.

Let me help you this time around, I'm not talking about the alphabet (Y & J) that appear in the name nor HOW JEWS PRONOUNCE the the Divine name the main point here is [size=14pt]the FORMULATION OF THE WORD THAT ENGLISH TRANSLATORS ADOPTED.[/size] When Martini formulated the one English adapted to today, he WRONGLY substituted the vowel of ADHONAY for 'YHWH to get YEHOWAH which rendered the word useless and having NO FORM EVER USED BY THE JEWS.

SO THE POINT HERE IS WRONG FORMULATION OF JEHOVAH.

Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary: "Jehovah is a [size=14pt]false reading[/size] of the Hebrew YAHWEH."

New Catholic Encyclopedia: "Jehovah is a [size=14pt]false form[/size] of the divine name YAHWEH."

Webster’s Third New International Dictionary: "‘Jehovah.’ Intended as a transliteration of Hebrew YAHWEH, the vowel points of Hebrew ADHONAY (my Lord) being erroneously substituted for those of YAHWEH; from the fact that in some Hebrew manuscripts the vowel points of ADHONAY (used as a euphemism [less direct style of writing] for YAHWEH) were written under the consonants YHWH or YAHWEH to indicate that ADHONAY was to be substituted in oral reading for YAHWEH. Jehovah is a Christian transliteration of the Tetragrammaton long assumed by many Christians to be the authentic reproduction of the Hebrew sacred name for God [size=14pt]but now recognized to be a late hybrid form never used by the Jews."[/size]

The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia: "Jehovah is an erroneous pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, or four-lettered name of God made up of the Hebrew letters YHWH. [size=14pt]The word ‘Jehovah’ therefore is a misreading for which there is no warrant and which makes no sense in Hebrew."[/size]

The funny part of it is that your organization knew this but still promote the usage of JEHOVAH just because people's familiarities with it, what an organization!

CAPTIVATOR:
I ask a question " counted worthy of what exactly ?" u replied " let me answer you with ur two QUESTIONS at op".

Replyin question with question ....
Just admit u dont know

I don't know you people's problem.

Wasn't Abraham, Isaac & Jacob counted worthy of RIGHTEOUSNESS? What I put up there is enough for an intelligent being to decipher.

Beside don't dodge my question too, For better understanding tell me, how the WORLD benefited from Jesus' death?

dolphinheart:
@ emusan , it was nice discussing with you . In the future, [size=14pt]ill try and ask questions from those who will answer.[/size]

I can't stop laughing ooo

See escapeeee like the way your brethren normal do after undeniable facts have been presented to them.

Shalom!

1) Next time you want to make my word to appear in your post make sure it appears in QUOTE if not I won't reply your post.
2) I can't reply this your epistle so I've copied out the part I want.

dolphinheart:
Pls pls pls, let us refrain from abusive or derogatory words, pls ehn.

Where did I use an abusive or derogatory words?

Thus I believe you mean that the name of God in english language is "yaweh" so according to you, english speakers should use "yaweh" instead of "jehovah" as its the more accurate english translation of the name of God in hebrew. Why the derogatory statement?

I don't understand the use of DEROGATORY by you in this post...
Your first mistake is even to think that JEHOVAH is an English word, can you show me where any Scholar ever says Jehovah is an English word?

So by the above statement , I believe you mean or are trying to say that [size=14pt]the english language does not have a correct(accurate) name of God and must revert back to other languages and use other language(s) name of God to mention the name of God in english. I might be wrong o! That is if "yaweh "is an english language name of God .(I'm not that scholary)

@bold-the first part is correct but the @underline is wrong both JEHOVAH and YAHWEH are still Hebrew.
You repeated this mistake again here, Jehovah itself isn't an ENGLISH WORD, if you think I'm wrong show me just ONE SCHOLAR who agree with you that JEHOVAH is an English word.

I feel that if the english name of God "jehovah " is innacurate and should be discarded based on your explanation of the innacurate derivation of/from the root word , then you should also champion the cause that all names in the english bible that have root issues too should be discarded, abi no be so?.

I've addressed this in my previous post.

I asked ,"Does the english translation (s) u use add the word "jehovah" to its translations? Just want a yes or no answer pls."

The question above no need scholary answer, a simple "yes the versions I use have the name jehovah in it" or "no the versions I use does not have the name jehovah in it " or " some do and some dnt " would be ok.
I no ask "why its there" or "why its not there" or "who made it to be there" so pls can you answer the question?

Please and please for the goodness of God, after I post this last statement on this YOUR QUESTION and you still ask me this again...be ready to receive anything that comes from me.

Webster’s Third New International Dictionary: "‘Jehovah.’ Intended as a transliteration of Hebrew YAHWEH, the vowel points of Hebrew ADHONAY (my Lord) [b]being erroneously substituted for those of YAHWEH; from the fact that in some Hebrew manuscripts the vowel points of ADHONAY (used as a euphemism [less direct style of writing] for YAHWEH) were written under the consonants YHWH or YAHWEH to indicate that ADHONAY was to be substituted in oral reading for YAHWEH. [size=14pt]Jehovah is a Christian transliteration of the Tetragrammaton long assumed by many Christians to be the authentic[/size] reproduction of the Hebrew sacred name for God [size=14pt]but now recognized to be a late hybrid form never used by the Jews."[/size]

I use KJV, but Scholars have criticized the usage of Jehovah in KJV.

What do you want again after my answers to your JUST ONE QUESTION?

Sir if "jah " is the "yah " in "yaweh" then how do we pronounce it in english.

Do you want me to provide the Audio of it?

In the english language the letter "j" is pronounced differently from the letter "y" .
If you write/spell "jar" in english ,the pronounciation is different from when you write/spell "yar " in english . So pls , how should we pronounce the english word "yaweh" and how does jah being the first part of it come in during pronounciation in english.?
What I'm really asking is that should I pronounce the first letter "y" in the english word "yaweh" as I will pronounce the first letter "y" in other english words such as year, yard or yes? If no , y?

I thought it was a mistake until I discovered that it was a deliberate act for using YAWEH instead of YAHWEH.
You still mistaking by saying ENGLISH WORD.
So what is wrong if you pronounce letter Y and J the way English man use them?

You said God has other names, I asked to give us those other names , you directed me to bible verses with an indication that God other names are stated there . You did not categoricaly tell me or commit urself to [size=14pt]directly state that God other names are so so and so.[/size]
Hence I asked the question that in ur view (are you telling me) that Gods other personal names are "repurchaser" and "holy"? Pls answer and do not throw the question back at me

@bold-if I did not do that, how can you emphasis on the two words REPURCHASER and HOLY?
God's name is REPURCHASER and HOLY, am I lying?

I now went further to state that in case you believe that Gods other personal names are "repurchaser" and holy" , with your prove based on the scriptures u qouted , [size=14pt]then why does other translations say otherwise.? this you have refused to answer,[/size] all you have done is to questions my questions.
In that verse where you brought out the word " repurchaser" as the personal name of God [size=14pt]I read several other versions where the word "repurchaser" is not there,[/size] I qouted those translations for you to see and comment on, but all you did is to question me back and not explain why does translations do not conform to ur view or mention that name as the name as the name of God .this I found disturbing.

Do you know your problem, when your own VERSION which you upheld above other VERSIONS is being used against you the next thing is to revert back to those UNSUPPORTED versions. If some versions you quoted don't have the word REPURCHASHER and NWT have it who is right? This is the line I want you to reason with.
Beside those versions also do they not have the word HOLY in the other verse I quoted?

If the other name of God is repurchaser , why dnt all the scriptures state thus in english, why do they use other english words .
By the way, in those verses you qouted, what is the original hebrew or greek word?

Do you mean NWT made a MISTAKE for using the ENGLISH WORD REPURCHASER and the other version that don't have it do they render that verse MORE ACCURATELY than NWT?

On the issue of mordern english translations and the use of the word jehovah .

Sir , I asked you previously why the name "jehovah" is now occurring more and more in english translations of the bible. This questions implies that as new translations come up, new revisions are being made , the name jehovah keep coming up in them , despite ur claim that scholars say it is wrong /innacurate. I can't be refering to only older translations when the words "now" and "more and more " occur in my question. So therefore I was refering to all translations and not just the older translations .(if I'm wrong , pls tell me what you understand my question to be, as I believe that you must understand a question before you can answer it)

I answered your question the way I understood it, didn't I?

Hence ,On April 29 , by 3:29 PM you answered the question by saying " You can only find it in the oldest translation."

Your statement was not "you can find it in the oldest translations". So pls stop the twisting.

So I twist it even when I re-quoted what I initially said...

With the original statement you made , one can't but help deduce that you are saying that one can only find the word "jehovah "in older translations and not in later (mordern) or future translations.(if I'm wrong about my understanding of ur answer, pls explain what you meant by "you can only find it in older translations"

To be sure about what you meant with that statement , I decided to ask other questions and ur later answers went contrary to ur initial statement .
This now prompted me to ask a categorical and simple question ,that, is the name "jehovah" included in mordern english translations of the bible ? In which I expect a simple answer of yes, no or I dnt know.
This answer you have not giving in ur reply , pls give us a simple answer.

If you feel you omitted the word "most" in ur statement" , pls feel free to add it anywhere in ur original statement and let's see how it goes sir. Ill be waiting for the addition.

No time to waste...this is what I first said you can only find it in older translations while inserting the omitted word 'MOST' you will have you can only find it [u]MOST in older translations

Do you clear?

You claim that I lie when I said that I "thought you said" something about mordern translations. I will only reply you when you can prove to me that my thoughts are wrong as to the meaning of ur statements on bible translations and the word "jehovah"

Does MODERN appear in your first question? If yes show me. If No, why must you say YOU THOUGHT since I answer your question directly?

You said my organization lied about scholars . My question to you is that , do all the scholars agree 100 % with ur postulations ? Is there a categorical statement accepted and agreed to by all the scholars that jehovahs witnesses now lie about?

You never know, ask yourself why did your organization remove the booklet SHOULD YOU BELIEVE IN TRINITY? if not the lies against early Father and Scholars. I will still create a thread about that don't worry.

[size=14pt]I asked about the old and mordern english Translation of the entire bible[/size] which ur claim the use of the name jehovah is wrong/innacurate . That's what our discussion is based on and not on a translator translation of a part of the bible. Let's not change the scope of our discussion.

@bold-show me where you made distinction about OLD and MODERN TRANSLATION in your previous post.

The statement "Even when translating quotations from the Hebrew Scriptures in which the
Tetragrammaton appears, most translators use “Lord” rather than God’s personal name" is true. Most do not use "jehovah". But my question is , do some old and mordern translators ever use the word jehovah in some places where the tetragrammaton exist in the bible ?
Has there been an increase or reduction in the number of bible translations that mentioned the word "jehovah"?

Now you said "most do not use JEHOVAH" that means SOME do. Then how come NWT is bragging about restoring the Divine name whereas SOME TRANSLATION even before the production of NWT has used this name?

As to ur question on the martinis inspiration , ill humbly tell you again, oga I no know.

So you don't know that THE FIRST PERSON WHO WILL EVER TRY TO USE THE DIVINE NAME OF GOD after long century out of usage was inspired, whether you like it or not the usage of the DIVINE NAME OF GOD by Martini has only two options: It's either is from God or from the Devil. Which one do you chose?

Pls be sincere, when the statement "it's
the Holyspirit who chooses the
person" was made , was he referring to martinis inspiration or to how we can't know who will be ressurected. Pls add prove.

Sorry to ask this, do you know who you're dealing with (I mean myself) because you think I was just making false accusation against someone.
Now pay attention to what lead to this your question and tell me the KIND OF PERSON YOU ARE.

This is what I wrote (NOTICE THE BOLD part because that's where the whole thing lies.) "You should know, [size=14pt]because the person who FORMED that name which is now the main pillar of your organization must have received it by revelation and his work must have made him to be part of the holy ones and little flocks.[/size]

His reply was (NOTICE also that he emphasized on the bold part) @bold section, That is your own conclusion not that of JW. then he went further to say The Holy Spirit NOT JW choose those that are part of the Holy ones/Little flock (Romans 8:16). If you knew JW well, you would know this already.

Now tell me what is the essence of saying I should be sincere?

Is being a founder an automatic ticket into Gods kingdom? If not, y do u keep hammering on Mr Russell.

Was Russell directed throughout his deal with Jehovah while on earth?
At least for someone to found an organization that is the MOUTH PIECE of God, God must have used the person beyond any other person.
Or since you're not sure let's just conclude that Russell won't be among the Holy one/Little flock.

he is just a man like me running his race to gain evalasting life.

But he has more anointing than you nah..

If he finish the race rightly, I dnt know as I was not there , and neither could I know his heart condition.

This means also that you're not sure of your own salvation since you're following the doctrines that was laid down by him because if he claimed that all what he taught (even though nothing Watchtower teaches that is new in history) is from God and he FOLLOWED HIS OWN TEACHING then there shouldn't be any doubt that you're saying now. It's just like saying the Apostles were not saved.

A jehovahs witness will tell you what God said you need to do to gain salvation and that you have to do it till the end.

Are you saying Russell didn't do them even to the END?

Jehovahs witnesses can't categorically say you did it to the end, even if they know some of the things you did, cus some parts of the things you need to do or have done can only be known between you and ur creator.

So this still stands that since they don't know then it means many people who profess Christian can also be part of the HOLY ONE/LITTLE FLOCK.

On the problem you say arose.
I do not see this as a problem
If you want to be a servant of jehovah and [size=14pt]believe that he is the only true God you must worship,[/size] then you must be his witness and be ready and willing to declare his name far and wide.

@bold-I can see the reason why you're not sure that Russell will be part of the Holy one/Little flock because Russell is a polytheist he worshiped the only true God and Jesus together which also means no Jehovah witness will be part of this Holy one/Little flock since the teaching of worshiping Jesus was change in 1950's after being taught for good 45years.
SEE THE PICTURE BELOW (also notice the LOGO of that CROSS): It was CHRIST name that early JWs declared far and wide not until March 1, 1939.
So which means no early JWs actually did what God wants.

This jesus did and want us to do, the making of jehovah name known world wide . So if you dnt preach the word of God ,(doing it according to jesus directive), going out to meet people in their homes and on the streets from location to location ,to discuss with them Gods word as jesus as the apostles did,(unless you are incapable of doing such due to contraints and issues beyond ur control) then you are not a true Christian.

That means the early JWs are not TRUE CHRISTIANS based on the evidence.

The books , magazines printed are aids to study of the bible and bible understanding, it contains scriptural reminders, warnings and advice that aid you to decipher satans snares and his attempts at not letting u know or understand the truth.
[size=14pt]If you like read all the books , magazines, etc . It does not guarantee you evalasting life. If you like read the bible from A-Z, it does not guarantee you evalasting life. Doing the will of God as stipulated in his word to us, believing in him and accepting the one he sent to save us , his directives and his ransome sacrifice will.[/size]

I so much love that bold section, how are you sure that OTHER CHRISTIANS organization are not doing what you listed above?
Do you think Russell didn't do all these either?

The questions you should now ask urself are : [size=14pt]jesus said that their is an organization[/size] that will give spiritual food at the right time to his followers after he has gone to heaven , that will care for them and guide them, that will follow his ways , that it and his members will show its fruitage of the holy spirit, that will not be part of these world or exhibit its spirit, do you know of any organization that strife to follow the above statements ? Do you know of any organization that try to display such fruitages of the holy spirit, do you know of any organizations that strive not to be part of the worlds political system? Do you know of any organization that preach the word from door to door and homes to homes like jesus did . Do you know of any organizations where its members prefer to die than even learn how to kill others?
Do you know of an organization where you dnt receive any financial reward for being a shephered in any capacity in the congregation? Do you know of any organization that combine all the aforementioned attributes?

Please KINDLY QUOTE WHERE JESUS MADE THAT STATEMENT FOR ME IN THE BIBLE.
Yet all these are to exalt WATCHTOWER as the TRUE congregation and the over one thousand other Christian congregation as false.

On 2. Who is a Christian , [size=14pt]a worshiper of jesus or a follower of jesus teachings, ways and commandments.[/size]
What are jesus teachings , direct statements about who we must worship? .who did jesus call his God and his followers God, who did jesus say sent him , [size=14pt]who's persons name did jesus want declared by his followers.?[/size]

@bold section 1-So that means Russell, early JWs and the early Christians are not true Christians.
@bold section 2-Can you give me a single place in the BIBLE where Jesus and the Apostle ever ADDRESSED GOD as Jehovah and where the Apostle ever Witness of Jehovah?

oapeleo:
Can you remember the plugin you installed before this problem started?

I can't because I employed someone to design it for me.

Any hope?

oapeleo:
Try to change to wordpress default theme first.
Den update

Wordpress did update all their sites automatically few days back. Sure yours insist up to date already.

Thanks brother, but the problem now is that I can't even log-in anytime I type the url that message will just appear.

oapeleo:
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Please how can I solve this problem I encountered while trying to update wordpress:

Fatal error: Cannot redeclare get_avatar_url() (previously declared in /home/propert7/public_html/wp-includes/link-template.php:3414) in /home/propert7/public_html/wp-content/themes/wpestate/libs/shortcodes.php on line 741

Thanks.

FRInteractives:
Hello NL webmasters, I will be posting some Questions in php which I have the answers already and you will figure them out for yourselves. You can also post your own questions here for others to solve.

Can you enlighten me on this problem I encountered while trying to UPDATE Wordpress.

Fatal error: Cannot redeclare get_avatar_url() (previously declared in /home/propert7/public_html/wp-includes/link-template.php:3414) in /home/propert7/public_html/wp-content/themes/wpestate/libs/shortcodes.php on line 741

Thanks.

CAPTIVATOR:
#derailing#
Counted worthy of what exactly ?

Let me use these your two questions to answer you here:

QUESTION: WHY DID Jesus CAME TO DIE FOR OUR SINS AGAIN? AFTRALL PEOPLE ARE ALREADY GOING TO HELL ?.

QUESTION: OF WHAT PURPOSE IS Jesus DEATH SINCE PEOPLE ARE MAKING HEAVEN WITHOUT HIM?

These are the questions you asked from OP, the first question is a result of evil whereas the second question is a result of RIGHTEOUSNESS.

I know you believe Abraham, Isaac, Jacob e.t.c live a life that different from the one Hitler, Osama e.t.c live, which then make them RIGHTEOUS AND COUNTED WORTHY before God.

So what is the essence of Jesus' death if people like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob live righteous without anybody died for them?

For better understanding tell me, how the WORLD benefited from Jesus' death?

CAPTIVATOR:
Emusan or what do u call urself ... If u dont have anything to contribute to the Op , Just leave the thread

So was my question outside the OP?

This is the question again, what is the essence of Jesus' death when people are already counted worthy by faith and their good works before His death according to your believe?

CAPTIVATOR:
Did Captivator ever believe people have an immortal soul that go to heaven when they die ? nah!

Just face the topic and stop derailing.

Mr man the point I'm raising wasn't centered on whether some immortal soul go to heaven or not the point I'm putting to you from OP is the statement you made [size=14pt]"Faulty! ...... Its either the ghost doctrine is a LIE or Jesus Death is useless to Mankind. ONE of these two doctrines is a fabrication.[/size]

The underline shows how big was the religious spectacle you put on, yet you want to remove others when you couldn't even see yours talk less of removing.

Now answer my question, what is the essence of Jesus' death when people are already counted worthy by faith and their good works before His death according to your believe?

CAPTIVATOR:
Next time, Just say " I dont know"

These are the questions I demanded of you,

Yet you say people will be saved according to their good work. since people will be saved ACCORDING TO THEIR GOOD WORK, why must Jesus come to die for SIN again?

Since these people were saved through their GOOD WORK without anybody died for them, what is the essence of Jesus coming to earth if some people have already been saved by good work?

Don't tell me story.

dolphinheart:
So english speakers, according to emusan , yaweh is the way to pronounce name for God in english and not jehovah.

Please if you don't have meaningful thing to contribute stop quoting me, for the last time the word JEHOVAH was derived from the LATIN inaccurate formulation of the Hebrew letters YHWH by a Chatolic monk Raymundus Martini, which has NO EQUIVALENT word in Hebrew. So if the ROOT WORD WHERE JEHOVAH WAS DERIVED IN LATIN IS INACCURATE then the derivative word Jehovah IN ENGLISH will also wrong.

Get that into your brain.

Does the english translation(s) u use add the word "jehovah" to its translations? Just want a yes or no answer pls.

Do scholars have ever criticized the usage of JEHOVAH in any English translation? Maybe this can rest your brain about what I've been saying since.

U stated (How will you know when you're made to know only Jehovah?
Psalm 68:4 "As Jah which is
his name" (Jah is the first
part of Yahweh), Isaiah 57:15
"And whose name is holy",)

Questions : pls expanciate on what you mean by jah is the first part of yahweh . How do we now pronounce the first part of Gods name in english.

What explanation do you want again from JAH? Wasn't JAH the YAH--in YAHWEH?
The way you have made to be pronouncing it from childhood.

U stated (Isaiah 63:16 "Our Repurchaser[Redeemer] of long ago is your name"

So in ur view " our repurchaser" ,"holy " are personal names of god?

Very funny of you, now that I've shown you that Jehovah is not the only name for God you're attacking a strawman again.
Is the name of God Holy and Repurchaser? That's the question.

If that's ur view, how do we then align it with the words of other translations below

Are you now telling me that these translations rendered this verse MORE ACCURATE THAN THE NWT?

New International Version
...you, LORD, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.

New Living Translation
....You are our Redeemer from ages past.

English Standard Version
..... you, O LORD, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.

New American Standard
Bible
....You, O LORD, are our Father, Our Redeemer
from of old is Your name.

King James Bible
.... thou, O LORD, art our
father, our redeemer; thy
name is from everlasting.

NET Bible
.....You, LORD, are our father;
you have been called our
protector from ancient times.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
....you are our Father. Your name is our Defender From
Everlasting.

Jubilee Bible 2000
....thou, O LORD, art our father; our everlasting Redeemer is thy name.

King James 2000 Bible
...you, O LORD, are our father, our redeemer; your name is from everlasting.

American King James
Version
...you, O LORD, are our father, our redeemer; your name is from everlasting.

American Standard Version
.... thou, O Jehovah, art our
Father; our Redeemer from
everlasting is thy name.

Douay-Rheims Bible
....thou, O Lord, art our
father, our redeemer, from
everlasting is thy name.

Darby Bible Translation
...thou, Jehovah, art our
Father; our Redeemer, from
everlasting, is thy name.


Webster's Bible Translation
......thou, O LORD, art our
father, our Redeemer; thy
name is from everlasting.

From the versions above, can you explain ur view on the other name of God in that verse?

I quoted two verses but you stylishly avoided the other ONE. Beside, are you telling me that these translations are more rendered accurately than the NWT that I quoted earlier?

Thought you said mordern translations "dnt" use the name "jehovah" , you are now say "if", Bros let's be certain , are mordern english translations using "jehovah as the name of God ? Yes or no or I dnt know.

I only said you can find it in the oldest translations (Though I omitted 'MOST') I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT MODERN TRANSLATION nor do you ask anything about modern translation, This is your post Why is it now occuring more and more in many translations when scholars say its a fake word and its not the real name of God? and my respond was You can only find it in the oldest translation.
stop lying the way your organization always lies about scholars
beside your organization has more to tell you about this, "For this reason, most modern English Bibles do not use the name Jehovah when translating the so-called New Testament. Even when translating quotations from the Hebrew Scriptures in which the Tetragrammaton appears, most translators use “Lord” rather than God’s personal name." http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/appendix-a/divine-name-christian-greek-scriptures/# Even your organization knew that most Modern translations don't use it.

Oga, I told you I (Jehovah's witness) dnt have the ability to know the heart of an individual, that I (Jehovah's witness) can't determine what reward awaits anyone, I (Jehovah' witness) can't judge, you are now going to t. Russell who is just another man like you and me (and the founder of Watchtower Society). Sir I dnt know what will happen to him, I dnt know him personaly and I'm not required to. (bracket mine)

Here we go!
But before I address your point let me ask again, was Martini inspired to have used the name JEHOVAH after the use of it has been lost for many years?

I purposely inserted those bracket words so that you can get the point better.
This is almost the same thing your brother said above as "it's the Holyspirit who chooses the person", which means NO HUMAN HAVE THE POWER TO KNOW HOW GOD DOES HIS THING, in that case two problems arise here
1) Then one doesn't need to join Watchtower Society, read hundreds of watchtower & Awake booklets and go door-to-door preaching before being saved.
2) Your organization was wrong to claim they're the only TRUE CHRISTIANS when they're not even a Christian because they only witness for Jehovah.

RikoduoSennin:
I don't remember making such a claim! But I remember that you said this same thing in another post- you misunderstood my original statement.

You didn't make any what? Why did you MODIFY your early post then?
Don't worry the way your organization lies to continue to buy you people's mind is what you're practicing.

See what Jesus say with his own mouth, John 17:16,26 "I have MANIFESTED THY NAME to the men whom thou gaveth me out of the world....I made known to them THY NAME and I will make IT known...."

Just give me where JESUS used the DIVINE NAME, not the place He quoted from Hebrew scripture as you people claimed.

Why will Jesus address God as FATHER and teaches His follower to address God as Father and not Jehovah?

Did Jesus shy away from using YHWH?

He didn't! Because God Himself had said that A NEW NAME WILL BE GIVEN

After Reading John 17:6,26; How would you answer that question?

Do you also know that NAME AND POWER are synonymous as being used in the Bible?

Jesus did not use a Title, he made YHWH known to others- This is a fact!

How did He do it when He addresses God as FATHER and also teaches His follower to do so?
Show me where Jesus told His follower to use the DIVINE NAME in the scripture

Papyrus roll of the Greek Septuagint (LXX) has the Tetragrammaton written in "square Hebrew characters".

[size=14pt]Q1) Did Jesus Christ and those of his disciples who wrote the christian greek scriptures have at hand copies of the Greek Septuagint with the divine name appearing in the form of the Tetragrammaton?[/size] YES, because copies of LXX remained for centuries after christ.

I can't stop laughing when you people will rush to MANUSCRIPT as if any MANUSCRIPTS support your claim.

Now see this BOLD CONTRADICTION in your post (this is the same lie your brother (CAPT) pulled up there which I put right in his face but ran away with this obvious contradiction which you also have repeated here.)

[b]@bold (especially underlined)-you claimed that "his disciples WHO WROTE the CHRISTIAN GREEK SCRIPTURES"
Yet you said below again "Jerome of the fourth and fifth century C.E wrote that Matthew/Levi wrote his book originally in Hebrew which was later translated to Greek.

Please when was a TRANSLATOR BECOME A WRITER?
Because if Matthew/Levi wrote his book in original Hebrew why referring to THE GREEK TRANSLATION AS ORIGINAL GREEK AGAIN written by Jesus disciples?

Q2) [size=14pt]Did God's name appear in the original writings of the Greek scriptures/New Testament? Jerome of the fourth and fifth century C.E wrote that Matthew/Levi wrote his book originally in Hebrew which was later translated to Greek.[/size]
(The Hebrew copy is located in the Library of ceasarea). Matthew made many quotation from the original Hebrew Scriptures, some of portions are from verses that contain the Divine Name, [size=14pt]Since Jesus and his disciples use The Divine Name,[/size] it is safe to say that They did not upheld the Tradition of removing the Divine name and replacing it with Titles (Lord and God)

DO WE STILL HAVE ORIGINAL GREEK when the writers WROTE THEIR BOOKS in ORIGINAL HEBREW?
OR you forgot that to write is different from to translate and WRITER is different from TRANSLATOR?
Where did Jesus and His disciple use the Divine name?

Lastly, when was this REMOVING OF THIS DIVINE NAME from the scriptures started, before Christ or after Christ? With evidence please

You have a nasty habit of MIS-QUOTING ME or capitalise on my Typho mistakes without following my train of thought. So to avoid meaningless argument I chose to ignore those posts.

Now I have a nasty habit of MISQUOTING you can you please show me where I did this?
So if you realized that YOUR POST ALWAYS INCLUDE TYPHO, why accusing me of being having a nasty habit of misquoting you?

RikoduoSennin:
@bold section, That is your own conclusion not that of JW.

[size=14pt]The Holy Spirit NOT JW choose those that are part of the Holy ones/Little flock (Romans 8:16).[/size] If you knew JW well, you would know this already.

If it's the Holyspirit who chooses the Holy ones/Little flock, why do you think any other Christians won't be part of this Holy ones/Little flock?

Do you know criteria the Holyspirit uses to chose this Holy ones/Little flock?

dolphinheart:
So to everyone , when reading the bible and come accross the name "jehovah" pls cancel it as those translators where were wrong o
The proper name in english is _____, emusan pls help fill the gap.

For now the proper name is YAHWEH since Jehovah isn't the best rendition

Does the translation(s) u use add the word "jehovah" to its translations?

Stop going backward

Interesting , so God has more than one name , ill like to know those other names pls , with its bible location.

How will you know when you're made to know only Jehovah?
Psalm 68:4 "As Jah which is his name" (Jah is the first part of Yahweh), Isaiah 57:15 "And whose name is holy", Isaiah 63:16 "Our Repurchaser[Redeemer] of long ago is your name"

are you saying that modern translations do not use the name jehovah?

If they do it's still wrong because Jehovah is an inaccurate rendering.

Oga, I no know who they go heaven or who dey stay earth, being a member of the organization is not a direct criteria for evalasting life.
Doing good work is not a criteria for evalasting life, doing good work to the end is . I dnt know how the man lived his life to the end.

But you know T. Russell will go to heaven.