₦airaland Forum

CANTICLES:
literal translation vrs 11: or " the spirit of Christ in them indicated " NWT reference bible . 1pet 1:11 footnote

RENDERING : " spirit in them was indicating concerning Christ , when it was bearing witness beforehand about the sufferings of Christ".

SMH the words "Spirit of Christ" appeared in the literal translation or FROM ORIGINAL GREEK MANUSCRIPT

The spirit in 1 pet 1:11 is not Christs spirit, but the holyspirit from God which enable them to wrote about the future sufferings of the Messiah ( Christ) .

See pure broad day lie, so Apostle Peter didn't know what his saying before he put "The Spirit of Christ IN THEM" into it?

NOTE ALSO THAT :

In john 7:35 , the literal rendering is " dispersion of the greeks" BUT the context reveal that it was the jews that are dispersed among the greeks not the greeks.

What are you saying @bolded?
covering lie with lie again.

RENDERING: " scattered AMONG the greeks"John 7:35. NIV

It's only PEOPLE like you that will find it difficult what this verse is saying because of your perverted teaching and I don't know how this related with the JWs of purposely REMOVE the words "Of Christ" even though it appeared in the Greek manuscript.

NO SUCH SCRIPTURE EXIST!

So you know

CANTICLES:
What is dis one saying ?

RE - READ the post above . #updated#

You havnt gave me the scripture that said : " NO ONE Has ever heard the fathers voice" ?

Updated because you're confused.

In your update why did NWT remove the word "of Christ" in 1 Peter 1:11?

I won't give the verse until you address my post (the one you cherry pick that statement from) then I will reply you based on that.

CANTICLES:
DEAR

RE - READ the explanation above .

The holyspirit is also called :

" the spirit of truth" .
" the spirit of God" .
" the spirit of Christ"

Who is the Truth?

Then how the Spirit of God also become the Spirit of Christ? That's the question.

MzNelly:
*sigh*

Meaning

CANTICLES:
@ emusan ..... SHOW me the scripture that said " NO ONE HAS HEARD The Father Voice" ??

Don't you have Bible?

I know you pop up from somewhere because I said "NO ONE" don't worry continue in your hidden place and watch.

BIBLESPEAKS:
In heaven, jesus' form, his essence, his morphe(which is "outward appearance" is spirit. The bible makes that clear when it says "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" - 1cor 15:42-50

"Christ also died for our sins once for all...being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit" - 1pet 3:18

The Bible identifies two forms of bodies(outward appearance). 1cor 15:44 says: "if there is a physical(material) body, there is also a spiritual(immaterial) one."


The form of life that exists in heaven is the spirit form. God has that form too, for the Bible says: "God is a spirit" -john 4:24

You're still confused.

Therefore, God, Jesus, and the angels all have the “essence” or “nature” of spirit. [size=14pt]This obviously does not make them all equally God![/size]

The bolded part is the purpose of this thread, and it's very obvious that the bolded is a pure lie from the pit of hell according the Phil 2:6.

the name [‘angel’] does not denote their nature [just as the title ‘God’ or ‘god’ does not necessarily denote one’s nature], but their office. As to their nature, they are spirits.

is such a privilege for spirit creatures to exist in the very form or essence of God. So phil 2:6,7 says of jesus' humility: "although existing in God's form, did not consider equality to God as something to be grasped. But took a slaves form and being in human likeness.

You're still re-quoting the same verse with confuse mind.

Did the verse say Jesus is EQUAL to God? Yes or No! and stop beating around the bush.

I know your problem is the rendering of that verse by some translations.

CAPTIVATOR:
LIE ! The name " Jehovah" appeared more than 6000 times in the original hebrew scriptures before dubious enemies of our Father Jehovah, replace it with the title " LORD"
OR ar u sayin Father Jehovah appeared physically to humans ? " No one has seen God at anytime" 1 Joh 4:12 !

"No man has seen the Father " Joh 6:46

You're just grasping straw, you know I'm not talking about NAME.

This is your original post "The book of EXODUS told us that Jehovah gave the law directly to Moses ( Exodus 20:1)"
Can you see the underlined word? So you must be confused.

ACT 7:38 and 53 explains what make the above scriptures correct.
what appeared in the verse is Angels BUT I didnt quote the verse ( " " ), I only make a reference to it so as to bring out a point, the point is that Isrealite received the law as transmitted through "Angels" Act 7:53.

So if Israelite received the law as transmitted through Angels, how many Angels transmitted it and how many Angels did exodus identify?
Now you've added verse 38 to it again but see my reply to your brother's post about that.

( Act 7:53 says nothing about their numbers) just Sit down there, an angel will come and tell you.

See your life when you're misinterpreting the scripture.

YES ! The greek scriptures now support it with the details " God ( Father Jehovah) made the universe " HEB 1:1,2 CREDITED. Another detail is that this was done " through his son (Jesus Christ ) " Heb 1:1,2

Yet your brother is using Prov 8:22-30 as a prove.

Isa 43:15-21,22 is directed to the only people serving Father Jehovah and Whom he repurchased for himself on earth as at that time, the house of Isreal.

So you mean it is not Jesus who formed them

This is diffrent from Father Jehovah creating the universe for his own beloved Son. Heb 1:1,2

See lie so House of Israel are not part of universe

Father Jehovah claimed to create everything, because its by his WILL that they were made. Rev 4:11! And Jesus Christ always do NOT his own will BUT the Will Of the Father ( Joh 6:38, Luke 22:42).

Did Jehovah CLAIM to create or He actually CREATED?

For example, scripture again says Father Jehovah destroyed Sodom and Gomorah ( 2pet 2:6, Jude 5-7) BUT it was two angels whom he sent that actually destroyed it ( Gen 19: 12,13) . THE ANGELS ARE CARRYING OUT not their will but THE WILL OF THE MOST HIGH, JEHOVAH. ( Gen 19:13)

Follower of figurative and representative anytime it suits them.

The question " who was with me? " is not directed to heavenly creatures BUT to the repurchased house of Jacob ! ( Check verse 23,24)

Another lie to cover up lies.

Everyone know Angels Carry out the WILL of the Father Jehovah ( compare Gen 19:13).

Joh 6:38 also make reference to Jesus doing NOT His own will BUT the Will of the Father

According to you the Father Himself has never encounter MAN but His representative, so why would people WORSHIP this Father's representative when It's not the Father Himself?

JESUS URGE US TO IMITATE HIM IN "DOING THE WILL OF HIS FATHER IN HEAVEN" MATT 7:21

And this proves that the Father was never seen by man.

Illustration: As a boss, if I wrote a letter to another person through my intelligent secretary, who will the person said wrote the letter ? ME, but the letter was written through my secretary.

Illustratin 2: God wrote the bible THROUGH Men ...... Who made the bible ? God , but it was done through men .

Therefore, Father Jehovah retains the title of " CREATOR" , " God ( Father Jehovah) made the universe" Heb 1:1,2 but just as he wrote the bibe through men ...... He made the universe " through his son".

What if you want to explain to people how the letter was written, will you say the letter which you use YOUR OWN HANDs to write was despatched?

I believe if you say so that makes you a liar.

WHEN Father in the heavens said that: " this is my son, the beloved, whom I have chosen" Matt 3:17, are u tellin me that these statement is actually Jesus Christ ? Lol .... Remember another Jesus is also gettin baptized at that moment.

In fact from here you will know how confuse you are, the Bible also said NO ONE HAS HEARD the Father's voice, I know according to you this will also be Father's representative. mtcheeeee

So when christians call the bible "the word of God" ...... It means the bible is actually Jesus christ.

Go and do more research.

You don't know before and research on what oooo

QUESTION: WAS JESUS Christ Created??

ANSWER: YES!

WHY: I was born by virtue of creation, but of all things that came into existence by creation, Jesus is the "first - BORN OF ALL CREATION " Col 1:15.

The first Born IS NOT the source of a persons procreative power, BUT scriptural definition: ' Firstborn ..... beginning of a person's pro creative power ' Genesis 49:3 ! REALLY ? ' Jesus is the beginning of THE CREATION by God' Rev 3:14

The same old story

Electr1csh0ck:
d key is in vs 5 wer xtains are told to hav a similar attitude wit christ.if christ is equal to God then dt means paul was encouraging christains to do d same.

You're wrong Paul wasn't encouraging Christian to be equal to God if Christ is EQUAL to God what He was saying is for Christ who is EQUAL to God to leave such POSITION and HONOR and humble Himself to assume the position of a slave, THEN the Christians should emulate His HUMILITY...NOT as you interpreted it...

BIBLESPEAKS:
How is Phil. 2:6 Meant to Be Understood?

And your own explanation never does this either.

To begin with, the context of Phil. 2:3-9 indicates how Phil. 2:6 should be understood. The context stresses the concept of humility and obedience, and Phil. 2:6 itself is clearly meant as the prime example of this for all Christians. Even The Amplified Bible, for example, translates Phil. 2:3, 5 this way:

We know the verse is talking about humility but the actual point you miss is what NATURE does Jesus exist before He humble Himself to assume the nature of a slave?

When even a number of the best trinitarian scholars are willing to admit the actual meaning (or even an equivalent compromise) of harpagmos at Phil. 2:6, it becomes necessary for honest-hearted, truth-seeking individuals to admit that Phil. 2:6 not only does not identify Jesus as God, but that it clearly shows Jesus is not God.

The verse doesn't say Jesus IS GOD but my question is DOES THE VERSE PLACE JESUS IN EQUALITY WITH GOD
So to you does the verse say Jesus is equal to God?

How true is the underlined statement?

The Bible verses that was given to read Acts 15:14 "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name." and Acts 15:17 "That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."(KJV)

I believe the purpose of referring to these verses is the underlined words "his name & my name" but what actually happen here?

Verse 13 indicates that it was JAMES who is narrating what PETER saw about the Gentiles.

Now the big question is whose name did the Apostles actually proclaim before Gentiles?

The answer is the name of Jesus Christ

So how can Jehovah Witness claimed that the TRUE Christians SERVE as Jehovah's witness when in reality ALL the Apostles actually WITNESS of Jesus Christ and Not Jehovah?

Those who actually witnesses about Jesus:

1) The Father Himself: When reading the scriptures one thing that is very sure is that NOWHERE Jesus Himself witnesses about The Father rather it's The Father who WITNESSED about His Son, in fact the GREATEST witness is that of the Father;
*John 5:36-37 "But I have greater witness than [that] of John:..., And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me..."(KJV)
*John 8:18 "I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me."(KJV)
*1 John 5:9 "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. (KJV)

2) The Holyspirit: 1 John 5:6 "This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth." (KJV)
*Acts 5:32 "...and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (KJV)

3) The Prophets: Acts 10:43 "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." (KJV)

4) The Apostles:[/b] *Acts 4:33 "And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all." (KJV)
*Acts 5:32 "And we are his witnesses of these things;..." (KJV)

5) John the Baptist: *John 1:7-8 "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe. He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light." (KJV)
*John 5:33 "Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth." (KJV)

6) Paul: Acts 23:11 "And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome." (KJV)

The list continues but one thing is very certain ALL the NT characters never witness of Jehovah instead they witnessed of Jesus Christ.

RikoduoSennin:
Isaiah 26:21 "For behold, The LORD is coming forth out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the Earth for their iniquity and the Earth will disclose the blood shed upon her and will no more cover her slain"

The essence of you quoting this verse is to show that YHWH's coming is different from Jesus' coming but can you see the bolded part? So who will actually do the underlined statement? If it is YHWH what is the purpose of Jesus second coming?

There are different levels of Divinity- gods, God, Mighty God and Almighty God.

SMH...you just decided to wallowing in your deceptions.
The verse read "ALL the FULLNESS..." beside I'm just looking at the way you dancing around because what actually appeared in that verse is GODHEAD

"For in Christ the Godhead in all its fulness dwells incarnate;" TCNT
"For in him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily," WEB
"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." KJV
"for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" ASV
"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" NIV

Did you ask yourself why ONLY JWs change the Godhead to DIVINE QUALITY?

Was it the person who made the statement of Verse 7 that made the statement of Verse 8? If so how is that?

How is that just continue to fool yourself you're asking when you suppose to provide a tangible reason while verse 7 & 8 are different person.

I Am Not confused, you misunderstood me. Jesus is a superior God to man but an inferior God to OUR GOD and HIS GOD- The Father hence he can't be an ALMIGHTY GOD.

You are only if you can begin to compare all your post here with each other then you will surely see it.

I didn't misunderstand you mr man, Jesus is a SUPERIOR GOD to YOU and INFERIOR TO GOD according to you but at the same time THE FATHER IS A SUPERIOR God, so if Jesus is superior to YOU and at the same time the Father is SUPERIOR then HOW MANY SUPERIOR GOD do you have? logically your answer is two yet you're proving smart after you've shot yourself in the legs.

[size=14pt]Man has so many superiors[/size] since we are the lest of God's intelligent creatures, but one one superior God counts/matters- The one called Almighty/ the only true God.

The underlined statement is enough for people to see how dubious you are, YOUR STATEMENT supposed to read like "Man has so many superiors GODs as you've been claiming since but you purposely remove God so that it'll look as if you only mean many superiority being AND YOU CONCLUDED with "but one superior God counts/matters- The one called Almighty/ the only true God. Seriously SMH

Wrong mon ami! Jesus does not know the day of his coming- True or False.

Someone who does not have the "Highest Authority" can not be called "ALMIGHTY" can he?

So because Jesus said He didn't know the day of His coming it means He doesn't know everything hmmmm I know you must have misunderstood that statement of Jesus again.

Please show me where Almighty means Highest Authority

No, JESUS WAS "GRANTED" LIFE(John 5:26). ETERNAL LIFE you said- do beings with Eternal life die? Did Jesus die? You see where I am going.

Olodo in the highest order is what you are, many times you've been told that Jesus possessed TWO NATURE yet can still be talking ignorantly that Jesus die. Is Jesus not an ETERNAL/EVERLASTING LIFE? now if you claimed an ETERNAL life died then what is the purpose of being ETERNAL?

Yes, Nothing else was created without Jesus except Jesus himself. When you read the Passage, you get the sense that the scriptures was referring to creation after Jesus' existence.

After the bolded you can still spew the last rubbish you need to get sense mr.

Just as he chose to use angels in his dealings with man. God chose to use his son to create everything you see today. He delegates duties as he sees fit.

And you think this same God can not chose to seek help from His Father while on earth

HUMANITY IN HEAVEN? Do you mean to say that although Jesus is NOW a God in Heaven he still has his own PERSONAL GOD?

Is Jesus NOW God in heaven or He always God since beginning?

NB: Jesus HANDS OVER RULERSHIP TO << THE FATHER.
Jesus will SUBJECT HIMSELF TO "THE ONE"// THE EXCEPTION TO JESUS SUBJECT (Verse 27).
By the time Jesus subjects himself and everything subjected to him to THE FATHER// THEN "THE FATHER" BECOME SOVEREIGN TO ALL.
See how you use YLT when it serves you. Read that Same passage from KJV/NKJV/NEV/RSV and see what that last phrase REALLY MEANT.

So you mean the Father is not yet SOVEREIGN to all now? I will see how you clean yourself from all these mess you're putting yourself into.

You accused me of using YLT but see KJV "... that God may be all in all." now tell me the different between them.

The Jews believe YHWH=The Father
You believe YHWH = Jesus, what then do you want me to conclude?

If Jesus is not the SAME as the Father, please HOW are they equal to ONE ALMIGHTY GOD? Is YHWH =3 Fission copies (i.e The Father, The Son and Holy Spirit)

GODHEAD=YHWH and they're three being in the Godhead. I believe you will get out of your confusion now.

Jesus is God/YHWH "ONLY BEGOTTEN SON" seeing as he was personally involved in Jesus' existence. But he is our Father in that our life force ORIGINATES from him, anointed Christians we become ADOPTED SONS/ SPIRIT SONS to God/YHWH.

YOUR life force ORIGINATED FROM YHWH or Jesus remember Jesus is the one who created you?
So who actually breath into Adam YHWH or Jesus? If it is Jesus why would Almighty God used A CREATED being to IMPACT life?
You always like to use the JEWS please give me one JEWS who believed someone else helped YHWH in creation (I mean the JEWS who read only the HEBREW SCRIPTURE).

Is Jesus Literally God's POWER? Because you question does not apply if it were in a figurative sense. (Please provided a scripture reference to Jesus being the Power of God)

father of figurative anytime it dances to their side.
Jesus is the power of God according to the Bible, am I lying?
Please show me where the Bible also said Jesus is a figurative power of God

It was the will of Jesus' maker (YHWH) that Adam be made, hence credit goes to him- Adam, Son of God. If Adam was called "son of Jesus"- glory will go to Jesus, and that would have been equal to the sin of Moses.(NB: Jesus did nothing of his own originality/accord- John 5:19)

So what is the glory that Jesus had with the Father before the world was made if this glory can not be given to Jesus?
Who actually carried out Gen 2:7 YHWH or Jesus?

@bold section, That is why the complete statement is "Jesus the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD"- meaning Jesus is the Only being directly CAUSED/CREATE by GOD/YHWH himself as every other thing in heaven and Earth was made "Through" Jesus christ.

And since Jesus was the only one directly created by God and called ONLT Son of God and the rest were directly created by JESUS then we should be called Son of Jesus.
because I don't see how ONLY will mean DIRECTLY CREATED if not for your erroneous teaching.

Does that make them equal or share the same authority? Or originate the same time? Woman came from Man not the other way round.

They were EQUAL IN NATURE that's why they share the same name but not the same authority.
Lol...woman came from man...and you think this prove Jesus' eternity wrong.
This is a simple logic...which means Eve is already being in Adam's body since the day Adam was created BUT WAS ONLY BROUGHT FORTH TO PHYSICAL REALM (if it is Adam that supposed to perform the action Adam WILL ONLY BRING EVE OUT OF HIMSELF--not creation) so likewise Jesus has always existed with the Father from ETERNITY but was brought forth (BEGET) AT A SPECFICE PERIOD to performed some specific task...WHAT YOU CREATE is not YOU but WHAT YOU BEGET(BROUGHT FORTH) IS YOU

This is the main POINT you've mixed up since.

Any scripture to back that up because what is written there in 2 Peter 1:4 is DIVINE NATURE not Jesus sinless Nature or is there a different meaning of DIVINE NATURE depending on whom you are referred to ?

Is it not the nature that Jesus possessed AFTER HIS resurrection Bible is talking about?
Was Jesus resurrected with another BODY?

Because if you see Divine nature and Jesus you scream "Jesus is God" but when you see same with Humans, you say its represent "Jesus sinless nature"

Answer the question above

ONE- THE ONLY TRUE GOD/YHWH/The Father of ALL, Jesus is just his subordinate, a mediator I must pass through to get access to The Almighty.

Is Jesus a SUPERIOR GOD to you? If yes, why will you have only Father as your superior God?

Is it wrong to Call a Professor the following titles Bachelor degree holder, Masters degree holder, Doctors degree holder?

What about calling someone who stopped at Masters degree program a Doctor degree holder?

Yes The Father is called both Mighty and Almighty (Most High) as well as other titles, but Jesus is called a Mighty God ONLY- he is not the MOST HIGH/ ALMIGHTY- he lack the credentials.

Another confuse illustration, from Nigeria to professor.

An2elect2:
From this passage i believe that Jesus is God cos no man born of a man and woman can ever be said to be in the form of God or claim equality with Him. Only God has His form and is equal to himself.

Ok you agree that this verse placed Jesus in EQUALITY with the Father, right?

Jameselias: Good luck jonathan is a human being and a president and i am also a human bieng, there for i am equal to mr. president good luck jonathan as a human being but not as a president.u get it.

Ok you agree that this verse placed Jesus in EQUALITY with the Father IN NATURE but they were DISTINCT, right?

oprajo:
you will understand that verse better if you read the previous verse and the next . verse 6 is in two parts . part one says
who BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD.

the bible didn't deny jesus didn't have the form of God. Some people when they want to explain this verse quickly ignore this part.

The word " FORM" is from a greek Word " MORPHE " where you get the word " MORPHOLOGY" from. morphology means form , shape , structure, appearance, nature. meaning jesus had the same form , appearance, shape and nature with God he is not talking about Jesus being a spirit because angels are also spirits.

let me quote a better translation that shows the true meaning of the word FORM.
AMPLIFIED VERSION
PHILIPPIANS 2:6
who although being essentially one with God and in the form of God (POSSESSING THE FULLNESS OF THE ATTRIBUTES WHICH MAKES GOD GOD ) .........
the part in bracket explains the word form. [size=14pt]Jesus was equal with God in form , shape , appearance and having everything that makes the father God.[/size]

PART two of that verse
thought it not robbery to be equal with God.
king James version used two key words in understanding this part which are ROBBERY AND EQUAL.
ROBBERY is from a greek Word " HARPAGAMOS" which means to hold to something forcefully in other to retain it.
EQUAL. is a word " ISOS " which means equal to .

This part is saying that this equality with God jesus didn't see it as something that must be retained at all cost. You may ask why? the next verse says why . the previous verse talks about ATTITUDE.
a better translation for the second part
AMPLIFIED VERSION
.........DID NOT THINK THIS EQUALITY WITH GOD WAS A THING TO BE GRASPED OR RETAINED.
because in coming to the world Jesus took the form of a man. The verse doesn't deny his equality with God but tells us that he didn't see it as something to be retained by all means because he was coming to earth.

Ok! fro what I can infer from your post IT'S LIKE you agree that Jesus has EQUALITY with the Father as per Bolden and underlined parts.

Am I right?

RikoduoSennin:
Literal "WORD" you mean though the words recorded at Hebrew 4:12 is not LITERAL BUT FIGURATIVE.

Everything about JWs is figurative, please when God spoke in the wilderness and the Israelite couldn't withstand His voice is it figurative too?

I recommended we you a common scriptures as basics, (A scrabble is more interest if both party use one common dictionary not different dictionaries).KJV/NKJV is more like a compromise on my part, please do the same.

You word doesn't sound like recommendation in the first instance but I can't hold on to only KJV because there are some other version who used simpler and straight words than KJV. What you can only do is to check whether I quote the right verse.

@bold section, you are so much in a hurry- I thought you claim to know my beliefs. If you know my beliefs, then you should know that Almighty God=Jehovah=The God of Isreal/Old testament=The Father. so there is nothing dubious about my previous statement.

Forget about this your jumbo jumbo, YOU PURPOSELY used GOD, in which you've been using Jehovah from your previous post.

Well, you should have Read Acts 7:38 " This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness WITH THE ANGEL WHO "SPOKE" TO HIM AT MOUNT SINAI AND WITH OUR FATHERS....."

I'm tired of teaching you Bible Ok!

Now you refer to Acts 7:38 after I've deflated you and your brother of Acts 7:53. Your initial statement was on EXODUS but the point Acts 7:38 was emphasizing on was on DEUTERONOMY if you read it from verse 37 "...A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear." and this took place many years after Moses' encountered with YHWH and before this time YHWH has already introduced an Angel which His name is on him. Though no where does the Bible recorded that The Angel Spoke with Moses on Mount Sinal likewise we can't rule out the possibility of the Angel talking with Moses on Mount Sinal.

Just continue to find representative angel for YHWH alright the onus is on you and your organization.

Well, tell me what Acts 7:38 says? How did the Angel fit into the picture even after Exodus says it was God who spoke? HINT: A representative is used yet that representative is not Almighty God.

Now you exposed yourself here what verse 38 was pointing to is not in EXODUS but in DEUTERONOMY, please was Exodus and Deuteronomy written at the same time?

Like I said keep searching for Angel that represent Yahweh and all these shits are just to support the lie that The Yahweh who spoke about Himself at Creation was actually represented by someone. SMH!!!

"Fellows" or "Comrades" you mean, No, Not according to me but according to Paul at Hebrews 1:9. Or do you mean to tell me such words/expression is not in your Bible?

In fact you suppose to just hide your face somewhere, you're the one who came with useless hierarchy here
-The Father is Almighty God
-Jesus is a Mighty God higher than Angels and Man

Now if Jesus is higher than Angel and Man can Jesus have a fellows according to your own hierarchy? this shows that you're missing the content of that Heb 1:9.

So you mean Jesus is God's LITERAL SPOKEN WORD (since you said he is not Figurative). Please tell me, How can LITERAL WORD have its own CONSCIOUSNESS?

And you think our word can be same as that of God
Is your word ALIVE?

You asked how can the literal word of God be conscious? Didn't Bible say The word of God is ALIVE, does the word ALIVE mean something to you?

I am a JW but please stick to my written material- I am not a fan of derailment. We can't be talking of one thing and you are referring to another, it slows progression of reasoning.

Likewise I'm not a fan of derailment and I stick with your written so making reference with what you believe is not a sin.

justwise:
justi4jesu is now 'bro' Dubai people

Good day, I sent you message hope you see it?

Discussing TRINITY with Jehovah Witness, Trinitarian can point to Philippians 2:6 to show that Jesus existed in the form/nature of God but JWs will quickly point to the last part of that verse to claim that Jesus didn't claim EQUALITY with God or sometimes JWs will say Jesus ONLY existed as a spirit person since God is a spirit. Is it true?

If Philippians 2:6 says "Who, being in the form of God...," and the next statement says "thought it not robbery to be equal with God" (KJV) something must has been lost in the mind of individual trying to reconcile second statement with the first statement. Some Trinitarians stuck at this point while JWs think that's the best time to continue with it.

I will ask only one question which I'll like anyone who wants to contribute should limit his/her answer to without going outside of this question.

Is Philippians 2:6 says Jesus is EQUAL or NOT EQUAL to God?

NOTE: Please no reference to another scriptures ONLY the UNDERSTANDING of Philippians 2:6 we need here.

macof:
Can't u jst shut up and stop exposing your idiocy?

Energy originated from God?

I know energy is your God nah

RikoduoSennin:
In what way is Jesus the POWER of GOd- please use scriptures.

He is the word of God Heb 4:12

In your haste you failed to notice that my emphasis was on YOUR USING A TRANSLATION that was not COMMON because I am well aware that you quote from different bible translation (that was why I recommended KJV/NKJV)

In my haste... you recommend but do you agree with KJV/NKJV?

When you read Exodus- we see that "God" spoke to Moses- Later we read that God spoke through Angels to Moses (Middleman is included). Same way some scripture reveal the Middleman used in Creation to be Jesus.

See how dubious you are, you used "GOD" not Jehovah here, is it God or Jehovah?

You and your hidden man misunderstood that acts 7:53 the verse didn't say God SPOKE through the Angels (Plural) BUT God put it into effect see how NIV put it "you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels but have not obeyed it." (NIV) Acts 7:53

Now you have agreed that it is Jehovah the Hebrew scripture says He actually did it not a representative.

Jesus is no ordinary creature, he was WITH God in the beginning and used according (Both were working).

And the same Jesus has a Fellow according to you.

I simply ask: How is Jesus "The Word of God" literal or figuratively? And I got the above....(Sigh)

It's not figurative and The word of God can not be created

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems you are keen on making a point with JW as a whole RATHER DISCUSS WITH ME ONE ON ONE. You are making a lot of assertions I have not said nor wrote about and making an argument against this.

I know what they (JWs) believed is what you're proving here so it's better I confronted you with it on their behalf.
I didn't make any assertion unless you want to tell me that YOU'RE NOT A JWs and whatever I've said here is not their believe.

RikoduoSennin:
Jesus Coming is different from the Almighty God coming as regards PURPOSE. What is their purpose of Coming is the difference.

Lol you've resulted to another thing JESUS' coming is DIFFERENT from the Almighty God...this your drama eh
So what is the Almighty God coming to do after Jesus has come? Support your point with scripture

Here yourself- "God put all the fullness of Divinity on Jesus". Someone put! That someone is God Almighty.

You just find away of dancing around and boycotting the main point. My question is why will Almighty God PUT ALL the FULLNESS of DIVINTY on Jesus when YOU CLAIMED THAT everything is DIVINE?

Did you see Verse 4: "John to the seven churches that are in Asia": and Verse 9 "I John, your brother...." Verse 8 is seperated from both verses- the one preceding it and succeeding it. It was an expression made by someone other than John - Jesus does not have qualities only an Almighty being could have.

Baseless point, you lack coherency while debating. Now see where you short yourself in the legs. You said and I quote [b]"Did you see Verse 4: "John to the seven churches that are in Asia": and Verse 9 "I John, your brother...." Verse 8 is seperated from both verses- [size=14pt]the one preceding it and succeeding it.[/size]

As "to the seven churches in Asia in verse 4" and the person who made this statement identified Himself 11 `I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' and, `What thou dost see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies that are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.' [size=14pt]12 And I did turn to see the voice that did speak with me...'"[/size]

Why would verse 8 be separated from the verse 7 which is still talking about the same even?

---He has a personal superior God who is head over him.

And He Himself is a SUPERIOR GOD...confused fellow

---He does not know everything nor is he the Highest authority.

He knows all thing and nobody says He is the Highest Authority

---He has a CAUSE, he is not self existing.

You always boycott this question and I will ask it here again but if you didn't answer it then forget my reply
[b]How can ETERNAL/EVARLASTING LIFE be created?...Jesus is LIFE HIMSELF

I did not claim such. I said the Almighty God used his Servant/Master Worker Jesus to create every other things. [size=14pt]He create without Jesus[/size] but HE CHOSE TO USE Jesus, its not the same as needing Jesus help.

@bolded-see how you're calling God a liar the Bible says "...Nothing was created without Jesus..." but to propagate your false teaching you make this blatant lie...SMH

You did as you repeated it here HOW CAN Almighty God CHOSE to use a CREATED BEING when He can do it on His own?

So when Jesus got to Heaven and received his Glory back he still CLAIM TO HAVE A PERSONAL GOD- Revelation 3:2,12. That says a lot don't you think?

For the last time Jesus still possess His HUMANITY now in heaven...so He can still call the Father His God But when the time come when The Son shall hand over the kingdom to His Father "and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all." 1 Corin 15:28 YLT

I know JWs used this verse to disprove Jesus being God without even fully understand it @underlined says it all.

And who told you that I don't know who is fellows are? Speculations and assumptions.

You don't if not you won't ask that question

Ok, Hebrew 2:5,8 "For it was not to angels that GOD subjected the world to come...putting everything under his (Jesus) feet". Q: Who put everything under Jesus feet? A: God Q: How is Jesus the same person as the one who subject everything under is feet? A: He is not.

For the last time Jesus is not the Father

Hebrew 2:11 "For he who sanctifies and THOSE WHO ARE SANCTIFIED HAVE ALL ONE ORIGIN that is why he is not ashamed to call them BRETHREN" - (they have the same Father).

Then is God our Father the way He was Jesus' Father?

Hebrew 2:13 "Here I am, and the Children GOD has given me
Hebrew 2: 17 [size=14pt]"Therefore he had to be made like his brethren in every respect[/size] so that he MIGHT BECOME a merciful and FAITHFUL high Priest IN THE SERVICE OF GOD"

The major part you ignored is the bolded part.
@bolded & underlined-you can see that the Author of the Hebrew was talking about Jesus taking up man NATURE which made Him to be our fellows/companions

Beget means CAUSE which in turn means MAKE HAPPEN. Jesus has a cause.

Do you mean God created His own power?

You can't compare Adam to Jesus because Jesus is the "ONLY" begotten SON OF GOD- Emphasis on "only" not begotten nor son of God. Why, because God/YHWH made Jesus and Jesus in turn made Adam.(NB: Adam was called Son of God because he was Made by God- he has no earthly Father, Same thing apply to the Angels- Why was Jesus called "SON"wink

See your life if God made Jesus and Jesus was called the Son of God and Jesus made Adam then Adam should be called the Son of Jesus not God again

See this contradiction @underlined in your own statement "because God/YHWH made Jesus and Jesus in turn made Adam. (NB: Adam was called Son of God because he(Adam) was Made by God..." Is it Jesus who made Adam or God?

Finally, You used beget to mean CAUSE but later said Jesus is the ONLY begotten, if BEGET means TO CAUSE/CREATE according to you and ALL BEING were CAUSE/CREATE then Jesus can't be the ONLY begotten. This dismiss your application of the word BEGET...do more research on how God beget Jesus.

I well know that there are DIFFERENT SONSHIP, what is not different is WHY THEY ARE CALLED SONS. Man, Angels and Jesus are called SONS because they are all created!!!

So you know and you can still say Jesus is the ONLY begotten/cause/create and if you claim that God created Jesus first and used Jesus to create other then both Angels and man are not the son of God but son of Jesus

Are (How) can Jesus be SON of God and still the "Same" God again.

Why simple English is hard for you? Jesus is not the same as the Father

-Adam is man
-Eve is also man before the fall
Is Eve the same with Adam? No! But they were both called MAN?

Adopted Sons-Christians will have a share in that Nature someday- will they be transform to God Almighty then?

2 Peter 1:3,4 "His DIVINE POWER has granted to us all things that pertains to life and godliness through the knowledge of him who called us to HIS OWN GLORY AND EXCELLENCE by which he has granted us his precious and great promises that through these you may escape from corruption that is in the world because of passion and become PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE".

Kai...SMH, Man has a corrupted NATURE through sin, Jesus came by taking on this same corrupted NATURE but the same NATURE was conquered and setting example of glorious transformation of this corrupted NATURE to INCORRUPTIBLE NATURE we are not taking the NATURE Jesus possessed before He took on FLESH but the NATURE He possessed after He conquered our sinful NATURE.

Its a shame that you don't understand my illustration.

In simple terms, Here is the hierachy;

| YHWH/The Father - Almighty God

| Jesus/The Son- Mighty God

| Angels//// Satan

| Man

PS: Angels are called Gods and are superior to Man. Hebrew 2:6,7,9.

Going back to your previous statement, Nigeria has only one President. the President can't be the VP and the VP can't be the president.
So to you Jesus is a Superior God and The Father is also a SUPERIOR God, How many SUPERIOR GOD do you have?

Again from the above, The Father is Almighty God and Jesus is Mighty God but according to the scripture The Father is also Mighty God. How come? Can someone be the President and at the same time V.President?

olajide21:
I live in Abuja and I can tell you authoritatively that power supply is epileptic in my area. Between 9pm yesterday and 5:30am this morning PHCN seize power and restored it about 5times.... In the last 31hrs before the above mentioned time, we had only 1 - 2 hrs of power supply..::::: No transformation here!!!!
Where do I live? FHA lugbe!!!!!! And Maitama is not better!!!

I was expecting to see my area on his list after I read SEVERAL COMMUNITIES, because your area is even better but ours is worsen.

Nobody should quote me thinking I'm supporting APC I don't even have party just that I'm not part of gullible Nigerians.

plaetton:
First, Science is about ideas and questions. Something I expect you to know more than many people here.

It is easy to mock the idea of an uncaused imaginary being, [size=14pt]for the simple fact that such a being , outside the realm of wishful thinking, has not properties upon which it can be scientifically classified,[/size] let alone being helpful in our scientific understanding of the universe.

Since science is about ideas do you think our idea can transcend the properties we have been made off?

@bolded part-look at the underlined words "...has not properties..."
Like I explained to someone above, we are the product of creation (existence of MATTER and ENERGY) and God is not part of these properties.

How do you want God who doesn't share in our properties (matter and energy) to be scientifically classified since all what science has knowledge about is MATTER AND ENERGY?

timonski:
do you always have to copy and paste this shit?

Sorry I didn't know it will provoke you. My apology

Now let me address your post

CAPTIVATOR:
u are here again with ur twisted arguments , answerin questions with a question as usual.

How is this your problem?

LISTEN

The book of EXODUS told us that Jehovah gave the law directly to Moses ( Exodus 20:1)

But you people say JEHOVAH never appeared in the Old Testament

But further EVIDENCE reveal that this was done through an Angel( Act 7:53).

The lie, you purposely wrote Angel (singular) but what appear in the verse is Angels (Plural)

So how many Angels gave the law?

WHILE the creation account told us that Jehovah God creates the world ( Ecc 12:1)

..........Further EVIDENCE reveal that this was done " [b]Through his Son" Heb 1:1,2[/b]

So you agree that the Hebrew scripture says it is Jehovah who created everything REMEMBER YOUR BROTHER SAID THE JEWS KNOW THAT JEHOVAH CREATED EVERYTHING through His Son.

You can only quote Ecc 12:1 whereas we have many places which spoke more than that,

Isa 43:21 "the people which I(Jehovah) formed for myself(Jehovah), that they might set forth my praise." YET everything was created for Christ.
Isa 44:24 "... I am Jehovah, that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE, that spreadeth abroad the earth (who is with me?) ASV
"...`I am Jehovah, doing all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, Spreading out the earth--who is with Me? YLT
"...“I am Jehovah, who made everything.I stretched out the heavens by myself, +And I spread out the earth. +Who was with me? NWT

It's either God isn't telling us the truth here or JWs are the one telling lies surely both can't be true.

BOTH the angel in d first instance , and the Son in the second instance are CARRYIN OUT THE WILL OF God,The FATHER (Joh 6:38)

ANGELS not angel
You quote John 6:38 where Jesus was supposed to be speaking about HIMSELF ALONE and you can still apply it to the Angel in the OT

FACT BOX " God (JEHOVAH) made the universe Through his son (Jesus) " HEB 1:1,2 ! TWO DISTINCT PERSONS.

TWO DISTINCT PERSONS but ONE CREATOR

Back to my question, can the LIVING word of God be created?

CAPTIVATOR:
MODALISM says " Jehovah Of old testament is the same Jesus of new testament" ! OPEN UR EYES AND SEE HOW UV JOINED THE MODALISM LEAGUE

Imagine that question, AND to confirm ur modalism case, u replied POSITIVELY. SAYING


Http: www.nairaland.com/post/30061259
PROVED !



[size=14pt]But to make urself appear as a Trinitarian[/size] despite the fact that uv just proved modalism, u quickly added the phrase .

.
Http: www.nairaland.com/post/30061259

WHICH is also FALSE ......

" That people May Know that YOU, Whose NAME is Jehovah , YOU ALONE is the MOST HIGH over all the earth" psalm 83:18.

" You ALONE" psalm 83:18

" You ALONE" Psalm 83:18

Is Jesus the Most High ?

" HE SHALL be Called SON OF the most high " Luke 1:32 !
NOT MOST HIGH but SON OF

INFACT: ANYONE MOST HIGH never have a God he is sujected under , whereas Christ will forever be subjected under the authority of THE MOST HIGH JEHOVAH, the God AND the FATHER of Christ ( 1 COR 15: 24, 28, Eph 1:3)

The bolded part is my concern and people reading that part can see how confuse you are

The truth is you FULLY UNDERSTOOD my point but just decided to twist.

The rest of your point is irrelevant to the matter on ground so swallow that up.

blueyedgeek:
Earlier on you said that nothing cannot create something and something cannot create itself but yet you would still have us believe that [size=14pt]God was created by nothing or that it created itself.[/size] If you can believe that God (a made up entity as far as I can tell) is uncreated, why then do you think it is far fetched for the universe (observable) to be uncreated?

Please where did I say the bolded part?

What you miss about explanation of creationist is that, according to creationist "THE UNIVERSE comprises of MATTERS and ENERGY which originated from God/the product of creation but God was never a PRODUCT of matter and energy that's why God is ETERNAL.

If God's nature contains matter and energy which are the product of creation then we can ask WHO CREATED GOD?

The word "TO CREATE" find its use when God began the formation of the universe.

God didn't create Himself rather He brought the word "TO CREATE" into use, that is God begins EVERYTHING we see in the universe at a particular PERIOD.

plaetton:
This development is relevant in this section because here, it has been generally believed and often been asserted that the universe had a starting point, and that only only something beyond the universe, God, could have been the first cause.

Others, myself particularly, have often asked and asserted that if it is possible for the unknown entity, God, to be uncaused and self-existent, then why could the universe not equally be uncaused and self-existent ?

I have equally asserted on several ocasions that the BigBang could not have been the beginning, but rather, an inflection point in the evolution of the universe.

So, you can see why this new scientific idea, thought still at infancy, fits very well with my personal notions time and existence.

Happy reading, and lets discuss.

http://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html

Here are some excerpts.



(Phys.org) —The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein's theory of general relativity. The model may also account for dark matter and dark energy, resolving multiple problems at once.


Although the Big Bang singularity arises directly and unavoidably from the mathematics of general relativity, some scientists see it as problematic because the math can explain only what happened immediately after—not at or before—the singularity.


Tag: Deepsight.

If this is true then it's a bad idea for some Christian Clergies who have agreed with Big Bang theory and most importantly the Islamic scholars who have almost put the very word BIG BANG in their Qu'ran

Who created the universe?
There are only three possibilities from where the universe can come from and by way of elimination I will arrive at the scientific evidence of the origin of the universe which took just 6 days.

(1). The universe created itself; or

(2). The universe has always existed, or

(3). The universe was created.

But one thing is for sure;

1. The universe created itself:

Can something create itself? Can nothing create something? The answer to these is an absolute No. We all know that something cannot create itself and nothing can't create something. From Latin we have the phrase "ex nihilo, nihil fit" meaning "from nothing, nothing comes." It also violates the law of cause and effect, that says for every effect there must be a cause. The effect can't be greater than the cause and nothing cannot be greater than something. Therefore, based on the laws of science and logic, the universe couldn't have created itself.

2. The univese has always existed:

Lets go to the 2nd law of thermodynamics that basically teaches that "the whole universe is losing usable energy for doing usable work." This means that the usable energy in this universe is wearing down. The universe as a whole is losing energy. In other words, molecules as a whole are slowing down.

Therefore, if this universe was eternal we will be in what is called a "virtual heat death." This means that there will be virtually no molecular movement. Everything would have lost its available heat energy for doing work. Therefore, the universe cannot be eternal, it must have had a beginning. The theory that the universe has always existed or is eternal has to be false based on the law of science and logic, another speculation gone with the air. This leaves us with only one possibility based on science.

3. The universe was created:

"In the Beginning God created the heavens and the earth." -- Genesis 1:1

Science confirms the biblical verse that in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth as I have just proved. With the above verse we see that God is outside time. He is eternal, with no beginning or end. He also knows all things, being infinitely intelligent. To recognise His handiwork, you should be able to know how to recognise the evidence of the works of His intelligence. This is simple.

CAPTIVATOR:
@ Emusan ..... [size=14pt]MODALISM PREACHER,[/size]

Until you provide an evidence for the bolded part then I'll take you serious.

thaoriginator:
So because PDP has been caught red handed you want to rope APC into the fraud right? It won't work sir, PDP are the master riggers no question.

Are you defending APC?

What is wrong with this gullible people?

See how this thread dry like on top of Galilee simply because it against both PDP and APC and the paid E-warrior.
Gullible people

RikoduoSennin:
Coming to do What exactly? Inspect God's Temple or Judge mankind etc ?

Compare these two statement
"...who is to come" Rev 1:8 and "...Surely I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!" Rev 22:20

So the person who is coming is the Almighty God.

No the Point is Jesus is a Mighty God (Divine being) and The Father is Almighty God (also a Divine being) Just like Angels, Satan and Man are also Divine beings/Gods.

The Father just happens to be at the end of a very long chain of Divine beings.

Just SMH for you...you keep twisting your on word...if everything is DIVINE why would God put ALL THE FULLNESS OF DIVINITY on Jesus again and what are these FULLNESS?

The message was transmitted by SIGNS and there was dialogue between Jesus and John, John and several Angels. The Context helps in identifying who was speaking.

So who is coming according to the context of that verse 8 remember verse 7 has already put everything to be Jesus "Behold, [size=14pt]he is coming with the clouds,[/size] and every eye will see him, every one who pierced him"

Will an Almighty God need the HELP of SOMEONE who is the ONLY BEING who can HELP HIM?
Because I can't Picture THe Father doing that!

Then why do you claimed that the same Almighty God needed the help of a created being(Jesus) to create the creations?
From beginning I've said JESUS HAS ALREADY surrendered everything to His Father so He didn't come to Earth as God instead as a HUMBLE SERVANT. Phil 2:6-7

I don't see any bold part!
I respect other peoples Faith in as much as I believe there is ONLY ONE TRUE FAITH. So what is the problem about.

Like I respect other people's faith too

At bold section, You have consistently got me wrong- I am not questioning Jesus being a God but him being Almighty God. So I am questioning The possibility of An Almighty God having Fellows/Companions?

I repeat you're using Heb 1:9 against Jesus being the Almighty God YET you don't know who are Jesus' fellows

Hebrew 2 verse What? I might have missed it in the past- I am sorry if that was the case.

Can you see yourself now
read the whole chapter.

Don't assume again and again that JW says this and that. I have not raised anything about Jesus being an Angel here- so don't speculate. Teach me without the prejudice you have for my Faith.

Do you know the meaning of speculate?
@bolded-Am I just assuming or I'm saying the fact?

Jesus is NOT the Father is a FACT- So your defination of beget does not HOLD. Jesus was created so he is not the Father. The Father begot Jesus because "He gave him life".
Oxford dictionary Says;
Beget (V): 1. To Father a Child (NB: Father not the Same as Child like you claimed)
2. To CAUSE ( which is closely synonymous to CREATE- The Father has NO CAUSE- That is a FACT)

SMH once again, THANK GOD it didn't say CREATE (but only synonymous to CREATE as your own view to prove your point) then how can Jesus be both created and begotten?
If given Jesus LIFE by the Father that made Him begotten then Adam also can be called the begotten but is this true?

It means believers are "adopted" sons of God- they are never Almighty God themselves like Their Father. Point me to any Father and Son who are the same? Now tell me Why is Jesus called "Son of the Most High and NOT the Most high himself"

Then if believers are adopted Sons then do you think calling Adam and Angels Sons have the same meaning like Jesus Sonship?
Both human father and son are the same in NATURE but different AUTHORITY,
Jesus is the Son of God that HAS THE SAME NATURE WITH HIS FATHER both are UNCREATED & EVERLASTING

STOP twisting my WORDS, [size=14pt]I said Jesus is a superior God when compared to Angels, Satan and Man- other beings that are called Gods too.[/size] That does not mean he does not have a Superior God (YHWH) he answers to. Jesus is more like a Vice President with YHWH as the President.

You keep twisting your own word just because you're confused thinking I'm the one twisting your word.

How many SUPERIOR GOD you have is what I asked you?
And you replied "Only one, The ONLY TRUE GOD- Jehovah The Almighty..."
Which you later try to relate with Nigeria government Yet we have only one PRESIDENT and others Titles Not One is the PRESIDENT and another one is the PRESIDENT but not like the other one.

So Jesus can't be SUPERIOR GOD and The Father will also be SUPERIOR God.

You're so confused to also think that Angels are SUPERIOR GOD which doesn't have any support in the scriptures.