₦airaland Forum

Janosky:

" Jesus is First born of every creature " NOT first born of the uncreated.
Adam is in whose image?
Jesus is in whose image?
Trinity nah scam.


Emusan,in your family is your POSITION/RANK higher than the first born?

What is the POSITION/RANK of the first born of God?

Oga,Continue to deceive yourself.
What a dunce!

Without wisdom and understanding couple with disjointed and incoherent sentences despite years of schooling him on Nairaland.

Mr continue to deceive yourself, hear again.

The term FIRSTBORN AS USED BY APOSTLE PAUL was explicitly explained by the same Paul in the same Col 1:18.

Jesus was not the FIRST person the scripture will use the term FIRSTBORN for in regard to POSITION/RANK

Not only that, the reason Jesus must be FIRSTBORN (PREEMINENCE - the actual meaning of that word is because Jesus MUST BE FIRST IN ALL THINGS.

If Jesus is the FIRST CREATED (the term scripture never used for Him) then there's no NEED FOR HIM TO BE PREEMINENCE OVER ALL THINGS again

DLNT: "And He Himself is the head of the body, the church. ... Who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, in order that He Himself might come-to-be holding-first-place in all things"

GW: "He is also the head of the church, which is his body. He is the beginning, the first to come back to life so that he would have first place in everything."

MOUNCE: "And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, in order that he might be preeminent in everything."

This verse alone proved that Jesus was never part of Creation but when He became part of Creation, He then MUST TAKE FIRSTBORN (SUPREMACY) in ALL THINGS.

I've rehearsed this several times to you people's dull skull.

Even AI understood it and interpret it that way.

Look at how AI explained the verse below.
See that it gave two meanings to the phrase "FIRSTBORN of every creature" but the part that you people always cling to, it inserted Col 1:16-17 to shows that meaning isn't applicable to the writers mind.

The issue with you people is lack of simple comprehension crowned with polluted doctrine.

MaxInDHouse:
If you're not ready to agree with the ENGLISH DICTIONARY on the word FIRSTBORN then why are you claiming it's SIMPLE ENGLISH?

I agreed with English dictionary I'm just showing you your hypocrisy because if it suits you agreed with the same human philosophy but if it is against you, you called it just human philosophy.

So, bring in your English dictionary of firstborn!

Jozzy4:
"The Son " doesn't exist before he came to earth.

The Son is a TITLE giving to the ETERNAL WORD of God who became part of the Creation.

ETERNAL LIFE/WORD OF GOD is almighty nor created.

He was just an ordinary person going by your logic

No! He was ETERNAL LIFE/WORD OF GOD.

Jozzy4:
Matt 24:36 mention Jesus and every person that existed in the universe, where is holy spirit in that verse ? This is why not knowing automatically means it's not a Person.

Only one person knows , and that's the Father

Every other person that exist doesn't know.

So it's either , holy spirit - another person, knows and Jesus lied

Or holy spirit isn't even a person to begin with hence the total lack of mention

Pure lies.

Only a person have the ABILITY TO KNOW and the scripture says Holy Spirit KNOWS THE VERY MIND OF GOD.

MaxInDHouse:
FIRSTBORN in any ENGLISH dictionary of your choice.

Please we need it now!

Funny enough!

Now directing me to dictionary the same you who claim I'm using human philosophy the other time.

The term FIRSTBORN was used for people who are not THE FIRST BORN IN THE FAMILY in the scripture that is the perfect example you need.

Not only that, Col 1 expressly explained the THE TERM FIRSTBORN as used for Jesus. "...So that he MIGHT became FIRST in ALL THING"

Sorry, if Jesus was the (FIRSTCREATED the term never used for Him) then no need for Him to still come AND BECAME FIRST AGAIN IN ALL THING.

Very simple English understanding.

MaxInDHouse:
The context doesn't make it a person because Jesus clearly stated that what his disciples asked for ONLY ONE PERSON KNOWS excluding himself so if the Holy Spirit is also a person Jesus wouldn't have used that phrase "ONLY THE FATHER"

This is how you'll know you have quack interpretation of God's word.

If Jesus said ONLY THE FATHER KNOWS means The Father is a person and Holy Spirit isn't a person, then remember Jesus and ALL THOSE WHO DIDN'T KNOW can't be PERSON.

Remember Jesus personalized WISDOM {Luke 7:35} God's word personalized other lifeless things.

There's nothing that makes a being to be PERSON that the scripture didn't apply to the Holy Spirit.

A being is regards as a PERSON because of:
1. The have ability to KNOW
2. Have MIND
3. can REASON
4. Speak

So saying Holy Spirit is not a PERSON is pure lies against God and His word.

MaxInDHouse:
But can we say as FIRSTBORN his existence began just as all other sons CHILDREN born into the family also began at some point in time?

This is why people like you FAILED IN EXAM.

The term FIRSTBORN isn't about human given BIRTH in this context of Col 1:15-18 but about POSITION/RANK

Why this simple English is so hard to comprehend for you?

MaxInDHouse:
It simply means Holy Spirit can't be a person if Jesus said "only the father" after excluding the Son therefore the concept of Trinity is false, there can't be three persons in one yet Jesus said he himself who is the Son doesn't know something and goes further to say "only the father knows"

So had it been your friend agreed that the Holy Spirit is not a person it would make sense that IT could know but if it's a person Jesus wouldn't have used the phrase "only the father" after all there supposed to be three in One person.

Emusan already knew he has lost it but as usual he will continue arguing blindly waiting for you to turn it into exchange of insults to trash the whole issue in the mud.

That is why I rehearse that logic to you people.

The Father KNOWS to you it means The Father is a person

But the same scripture says The Holy Spirit KNOWS and to you it means He is not a person.

Very whacked and dubious logic

MaxInDHouse:
• Chief Jeremiah Oyeniyi Obafemi Awolowo was born in the year 1909

• Chief Jeremiah Oyeniyi Obafemi Awolowo came to life in the year 1909

What's the difference?

Firstborn is the point here!

It means PREEMINENCE.

If Chief Obafemi wasn't the FIRSTBORN of the family and he was CALLED the FIRSTBORN it means it's not about being BORN but RANK/POSITION.

This is very clear from the point of Col 1:15-18

Jozzy4:
You are missing the word " ONLY"

Jesus said ONLY THE FATHER knows.

Only

Only

Only

A single person, no one else.

If Holy spirit knows, that makes two persons that knows and Jesus lied

If holy spirit doesn't know, that automatically means it's not a person.

Pick your poison

In your own logic

only The Father KNOWS makes the Father to be a PERSON

But Holy spirit KNOWS the very mind of God shows Holy spirit isn't a PERSON.

If Jesus didn't know, that automatically means it's not a person..

Can you imagine...

MaxInDHouse:
Both means the same thing: beginning of life!

No!

Stop lying.

Jozzy4:
So therefore the title and position of " God the Son " doesn't exist before Jesus came to earth.

Trinity in the mud

God the Son isn't a Position!

O ma se oooo

The Title God the Son is to show Jesus was FULLY GOD AND EQUAL TO THE FATHER.

Jozzy4:
How many persons know the Day and Hour

The Father knows the Day and Hour.

The Holy Spirit knows the very MIND OF GOD.

You haven't disagree with that.

Jozzy4:
He wasn't a Son until his earthly mission

Yes! He got the Title 'SON' during His mission on earth.

Can you just accept there wasn't God the Son or trinity before Jesus came to earth ?

God the Son is also a Title.

Reason I said, you don't understand the discussion you jump into.

Jesus is The ETERNAL WORD OF GOD.

MaxInDHouse:
Firstborn is part of those being born!

NOTICE THE KEY WORD: being BORN not being CREATED

The two words are different!

Jozzy4:
So there was no God the Son before he came to earth? you just single handedly capsize the ship of trinity

That was because you don't understand the discussion you jump into

Jozzy4:
" only the Father know"
Are you denying it's a person distinct from the Father now ?

Holy Spirit is a person and He KNOWS THE VERY MIND OF GOD!

Only then you will understanding why Jesus said ONLY THE FATHER KNOW.

MaxInDHouse:
So he was created since the scriptures called him:
"The FIRSTBORN of all creation" Colossians 1:15

No! He is the Creator.

FIRSTBORN is preeminence

The FIRSTBORN of anything means the first to be created through that source!

Only you know why you change FIRSTBORN to first to be created

MaxInDHouse:
Firstborn of humans or of God?

Good!

Human is the one the term FIRSTBORN always applied to.

You yourself take Jesus as NOT HUMAN that is as someone who exists somewhere before he was BORN as human.

So, the term FIRSTBORN has ALWAYS BEING ABOUT HUMAN not NOR HUMAN.

Logically, if Jesus existed somewhere before being BORN AS HUMAN he can't be called FIRSTBORN as someone who was FIRST GIVING BRITH TO AS HUMAN, the only logical way the term FIRSTBORN was used for Jesus will be PREEMINENCE which Col 1:18 specifically TALKED ABOUT.

Any understanding of FIRSTBORN than this is a corrupt/fraudulent interpretation.

Jozzy4:
If he is God, why doesn't holy spirit know the day and hour ?

The Holy Spirit knows the VERY MIND of God.

So, why won't He know the Hour and day?

MaxInDHouse:
I don't know when FIRST BORN is no longer one of those being born o! Colossians 1:15

FIRSTBORN is different from FIRSTCREATED

Firstborn is used among human to mean human can give birth NOT CREATE, you can never say your father CREATED YOU.

Firstborn is used among RULERS to mean HIGH RANK, FIRST POSITION, PREEMINENCE E.T.C

The writers of the New Testament know the two words exist yet NEVER USED the word 'FIRSTCREATED' for Jesus Christ.

And Col 1:15-18 expressly shows that The firstborn used for Jesus IS ABOUT PREEMINENCE not as being BORN AS HUMAN.

Simple English!

Jozzy4:
Show me where the Father was called " Son" to at least let us know it can be applied to Uncreated person.

Jesus became 'SON' for His mission on earth how is that hard for you to understand?
If Jesus never come to earth for man salvation He won't have had the Title SON.

Col 1:15-18 already proved that Jesus is the CRRATOR.

A CREATOR can't be CREATED.

Jozzy4:
The Fact that the word " Son of God " and " Firstborn" was never applied to the Father already showed this is just a futile attempt to dribble the truth.

He was Son of God and FIRSTBORN when he became part of creation.

This was the point Col 1:15-18 addressed.

Every occurrence of Son in the scriptures was applied to peope with beginning.

The Father is also THE BEGINNING don't forget.

That is why no such word is ever applied to the Father at any point in history.

Liar! The Father called Himself THE BEGINNING.

Beginning of what? If I may ask?

Jozzy4:
First in everything, everything include creation

No! He is the creator according to verse 16-17

Among all things and personalities created, he is the First.

He created ALL THINGS!

He can't be among ALL THINGS again.

Michael547:
So How many name does Psalms 83:18 says that God has?
what name did Jesus call in John 17:26?

According to New World Translation.

If you see from any where Jesus used the name Jehovah bring it!

I am waiting!

achorladey:
@ Emusan do you have that screenshot shared by Janosky about Trinitarians believing Jesus is Angel Michael, not created and eternal.

I cannot lay my hands on it so far

Actually, I don't have it but I think it's from the same Matthew Poole's or Geneva Bible.

That is why you see them just screenshot the little part that suits them.

You actually paint it as it should be.

Even Paul himself explained why Jesus is called FIRSTBORN.

In verse 18 "Christ is also the head of the church, which is his body. He is the beginning, supreme over all who rise from the dead. So he is first in everything."

Key note from this verse is that:
1. Jesus is called THE BEGINNING Just as God called Himself the Beginning
2. preeminence is @underlined

Janosky:
Go & demand answers from your fellow Trinitarians believing that Jesus is archangel Michael.
They have provided the new testament verses for their beliefs.
Oga STOP WAILING.



Emusan LYING miscreant deceiving himself.

Trinitarian Adventists church= Revelation 12:7-9.
Trinitarian John Gill= Jude 1:9.
Trinitarian Geneva Bible= Daniel 10:13.
Trinitarian Matthew Poole= Hebrew 1:4-7.

From the old testament to the new testament, your Trinitarian mentors were convinced that Jesus is archangel Michael.

Very correct.

First of all, this line of your delusion isn't new to me.

Secondly, Watchtower is a product of Seventh Day Adventist which means they actually copied that doctrine from them.

Lastly, this reinforced my point that NOT ONLY WATCHTOWER has the truth. In fact, the best caption here will be 'Watchtower simply copied the TRUTH OF TRINITARIAN'

Michael547:
So do you agree with Trinitarians that said that Jesus is Michael?

What is the meaning of ARCHANGEL?

Where in the New Testament Jesus was the only one called ARCHANGEL Michael?

Michael547:
Ask your fellow Trinitarians

Even the TRINITARIAN never said Jesus was called ARCHANGEL in the New Testament. You can only see their comments on Dan 10:13

So.

What is the meaning of ARCHANGEL?

Where in the New Testament Jesus was the only one called ARCHANGEL Michael?

Michael547:
No, they are your brothers since they are also Trinitarians.

What is the meaning of ARCHANGEL?

Where in the New Testament Jesus was the only one called ARCHANGEL Michael?

Michael547:
No, you should ask them since they are your brothers.

You both are brothers as well and have the SAME TRUTH.

Where is in the Scripture Jesus was called only ARCHANGEL Michael?