₦airaland Forum

The Roman Catholic Church versus Jesus Christ

Sample 2

Roman Catholic Church

Also well-known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved [without] the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff, to whom the custody of the vineyard has been committed by the Savior." (per "pope" Pius IX; this time let Roman Catholics themselves tell us whether this statement was made fallibly or ‘infallibly’)

Versus

Jesus Christ

“For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." (Matthew 18:20)

The Roman Catholic Church versus Jesus Christ

Sample 1


Roman Catholic Church

“We declare, state, define and pronounce that it is altogether necessary to salvation for every human creature to be subject to the Roman pontiff. (‘Pope’ Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam; statement made ex cathedra, thus ‘infallibly’!)

Versus

Jesus Christ

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)

Of course he will say that of the Roman Catholic Church!

I will demonstrate that shortly. In the meantime as your "friend" claims to be an Anglican, do you want to help him with answers to the following?

By the way, confirm now openly that:

1. The Anglicans are heretics;
2. The Anglicans do not have "apostolic succession", as
3. Anglican orders are "absolutely null and utterly void".

^^^ I will let your "friend" answer you.

Pastor AIO: Says who? Who told you that 2 people meeting together in fellowship doesn't make a church? Where 2 or 3 are gathered in his name, he is there. Besides you are still lost on this idea that the church is a building and a man made institutions. No!! The Church is those who have been called out of the world, for christ. And if Christ is in the midst of them they can 'continue like that' for as long as Christ wills it.
Organisations have purpose and structure. The Church are simply those called out for Christ.....

E never finish ooo

^^^ Jos dey look; American wonder. lol or lol

^^^ One word: hypocrite!

Pastor AIO: I hope you understand that Jesus was talking about fellowship there and the importance of it for worship and for acheiving goals. Even where there is nobody around Christ is there too.

19Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Matthew 18



Agreed, but it doesn't say that the church meetings must be colossal affairs in great big buildings. 2 or 3 people can encourage and warn each other. In fact in a big institution you are more likely to get lost in the crowd and nobody knows your business and nobody encourages or upbraids you.

I said:Besides you are still lost on this idea that the church is a building and a man made institutions. To which you respond.

I said you were lost in the idea of church being an building and man made institution because you say things like this:

I understand that where there are christians there is church, cos christians are the church. So how can there be no church around where there are 2 neighbours who are christians, unless you mean something different by church. The only other thing that I can imagine you are saying is that there is no registered church with a building and an institutional 'structure and purpose'. Am I wrong? If so, please correct me.


1000 people can't fulfil the purpose of the church either, unless they have the holy spirit. It is not the number of people. If there is need for prophecy in an area and there are only 3 people in the church there it is nothing for the spirit to inspire one of them to start prophesying if he hasn't before. Or to send a new member with the gift of prophecy. The church is worldwide and it is only fellowships that are limited to an area. Just as, i guess to use the imagery of 1Cor 12, the eyes are located in the head while the toes are located on the feet and the liver and kidneys etc each have where they are located yet they work together to fulfill the purpose of one living church.



Sir, you said one has to be called to be in the ministry. I happen to know that you are in a ministry. I asked you what the criteria was for knowing that you are called. This is another of the many questions I've been asking of you since and I am yet to receive a response to any of them. What better way to demonstrate the criteria of knowing you are called than you use yourself as an example. If you find it too personal can you then simply tell us in general terms how one is to know that he is called and how the rest of us are to know too. I don't think that has left the topic at all, you brought it up right within the topic.


Okay o, leave that part.



You're looking puzzled when I tell you to go and rest cos you are tired. Did I not warn you not to put words in my mouth, like you poodle Deepsight was wont to do.
Remember I said:

Yet you deliberately decided to keep on using the word tired. Plus you then open a new thread about needing to take a rest. If you don't know it then let me give you the diagnosis of why. I say it is because you have a weariness in your soul, and it is been expressed subliminally. Am I wrong? I'll accept the possibility that I am wrong, at the end of the day it is your life and you know about it best. But sha, the bottomline of all that is please don't put words in my mouth. I never mentioned anything about being tired. Speak for yourself.


I can see that this is going to be a sticking point for you if I don't answer it, even though it is one of the things that I was determined not to answer on NL.
I am C of E, denominationally speaking. Happy?



You are saying that the purpose of the church is to build the church. I guess you're right. And the purpose of a dog is to be a dog. and the purpose of dinner is to dine. Let us have dinner in order to dine.
Menh, you are just talking abstract nonsense. 'perfecting saints into maturity'. What do mature saints do? What does the church do? Did Jesus not say that the kingdom will be like a great tree when matured and even the birds will find shelter under it?

He set another parable before them, saying, "The Kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field; which indeed is smaller than all seeds. But when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in its branches."

– Matthew 13:31–32

The entire purpose of Jesus ministry is to fulfill the law and the apex of the Law is Love God, and Love your neighbour. How we love our neighbour is amply explained in the parable of the good Samaritan. How we love God is amply explained here:

^^^ Look, I don't have time for you, I've got more important things to 'throw down'.

Last I heard you were opening some latrine threads which I guess went down the drain. Naturally, I was never going to get involved in some shi*ty threads. (All puns intended).

"Our sun and shield Jehovah
Will grace and glory give"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcz9GJ0Ixn8

CarCam: Yeah, I know, that Idi Amin animation gif is on point

and is handy for peculiar or ludicrous moments,

Am about making one, will share with all as soon as it's done

One gif that I would like to have is one for ----- crybaby!

Oh and how contradictory of my crybaby friend to concede that Jesus is with two or three people gathered in His name --- yet claim they are not Jesus' Church!


@ logicboy

You are making progress; that is nice to see.

^^^ I'm not giving you anything! Your choice what you want to do or what you want to discuss or what you want to post.

You don't even have to answer my questions! Although I will continue to ask such questions, make such points, and use "quotations" that I consider to be "of pertinence".

Ah, here is one more question; and you don't even have to answer it, just like you haven't answered the last set.


Thousands of Anglicans will be holding church services tomorrow, some even including 'Holy Communion': will Jesus Christ be in the midst of them?

Ubenedictus: really, so chysostum also supported the gathering of heretics? Got back and read his writtings and stopt clinging to straws.

By the way, confirm now openly that:

1. The Anglicans are heretics;
2. The Anglicans do not have "apostolic succession", as
3. Anglican orders are "absolutely null and utterly void".

Of course, you cannot handle the prayer of Chrysostom ---- since it is opposed to the Roman Catholic falsehood and nonsense.

Most crucially, it is a promise of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself ---- but of course Roman Catholics esteem their "church" and their "popes" higher than Jesus ------- by their own very words and from their own very mouths (or pens etc)!

^^^ Right there before you!

Chrysostom agreed with me and more importantly with the Lord Jesus Christ that where two or three are gathered in Jesus' name, He i.e. the Lord Jesus Christ is with them.

Of course Chrysostom did not suggest that they need some "pope" for Jesus to be in their midst.

No surprise though, since Chrysostom was not a Roman Catholic.

veave: God bless you all for the words of encouragement and for this Convention. Its not an easy road at all, but HIS GRACE is sufficient...
SHALLOM

Indeed!

Small time now, Roman Catholics go begin claim Chrysostom!

Enuwe, here is a prayer associated with him:

"Almighty God, you have given us grace at this time with one accord to make our common supplication to you; and you have promised through your well-beloved Son that when two or three are gathered together in his Name you will be in the midst of them: Fulfill now, O Lord, our desires and petitions as may be best for us; granting us in this world knowledge of your truth, and in the age to come life everlasting. Amen"

^^ Ah, crybaby show face, Pele oh.

Where two or three are gathered in Jesus' name, He is there right in the midst of them.

Oh, and of course they don't need some "pope".

^^^ So, basically you do not believe what Jesus Christ said --- that where two or three are gathered in His name, He is there in their midst.

Just like He was in the midst of all those people who met in houses as we are told in the Bible. They did not have and did not need any "pope".

Just as He is there in the midst of those who meet in houses and even in secret in countries where Christianity is not exactly freely allowed. They do not have and do not need any "pope"! Thankfully!

Yet, they are all part of the one Church of Christ.

^^ The bottom line is that the Church established by Jesus Christ can be found wherever two or three are gathered in His name; and that Church is not subject to the authority of some "pope"!

That Church does not need any other name except "the Church of Christ" or "the Christian Church".

That Church is not bound by or subject to denominations --- whether Roman Catholic or Cutlass Sharp Sharp Ministry etc etc

obadiah777: hehe sup my brother Enigma, nobody see ya breaklight again sire. trust all is well

Brah, I'm doing fine; I'm camping on this particular thread at the moment: https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013

Brah, you sure this Armageddon finna go down yet --- with Britain backing down?

obadiah777: yup its possible if the other persons username is 'MOD'

I don talk my own bifor brah ---- you still remain one of my favourite posters on Nairaland (even though obviously I don't agree with your theology)!

Logicboy03: Lol..so many people are worried about my soul......unfortunately, I have none.

Nooo worry!!! Make you just no worry at all!

When you change and start to do proper evangelism, even if me and you no dey contact again, just give a smile, just one special smile, ---- dedicated to Enigma!

Ajibam: @enigma
Am waiting for the teachings in document form...please post it here for download..

It's been up since yesterday bros!

Just look beneath the signature in this post: https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013/3#17756096

@logicboy

By the way, you got a special mention here https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013/4#17759808

I've just remembered that.

Logicboy03: Abeg ooo


Striklymi, let the matter rest after this. Understand that mods will more likely stick together and those that dont post here regularly will talk nonsense.


HBG has been humbled and has apologised.


This is a lesson to mods and members. Be careful when modifying posts especially when you have been cuaught saying nonsense. Or better yet, just man up and apologise when you have said something wrong rather than trying to hide it.

Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God.

I don talk am before that you will eventually become ọmọ Jesu. No worry, the day cometh when I go fit truly call you my brother - in Christ!

Just quickly before the second session starts

@ Pastor Kun and Bidam

I understood Bidam to actually be paying a compliment to the Convention --- not the other way.

@Bidam

DV We will look into the issue you raise in your question another day.

As we move towards closing on the first paper and moving on to the next, let me post the notes that are added in the Word document version as something people can think about especially in light of certain types of objections that we often get from non-believers.


1. Freewill ‘parable’/analogy

Father gives pocket money to son; father tells son you can spend the money on anything but you must not buy sweets from the money. Father knows that the child will most certainly buy sweets. That knowledge does not prevent the father from giving the child pocket money. Moreover, father knows that child is going to develop dental problems from buying and eating sweets. Father makes prior arrangements including payment to a dentist. When the child develops dental problems, father says, go to Mr Dentist and have it fixed. I have already even paid the price. NB. It is still up to the child to go to the dentist ---- or to suffer the pain of the dental problem and the consequence of his disobedience in buying sweets!


2. Why Create? Is Creation really an act of love?

Why do you/people have or want children? Self-expression? Someone or something to love?
Why exercise any form of creativity? Art, music, literature, invention etc?

@Alexleo and Ajibam

The point you guys are raising is an extremely deep and crucially important point so I am sorry if my answers are not as detailed as they might be. The topic itself could be a subject of convention in its own right!

Anyway, a couple of things to bear in mind.

1. Jesus said that the wheat and weed/tares will grow together. He also gave us examples of different types of people who received the word; some having no root, some choked by thorns etc. This tells us that appearances can be deceptive. Supposing we know a pastor who seems to preach well etc etc; but we know that he is in the habit of stealing "God's money" or of sleeping with girls in his church ---- unrepentantly! Do we really think that person has submitted himself to be cleansed.

2. As for those who have truly submitted, it is God Himself who will strengthen them and hedge them such that they will not be lost. The worst case is that they will descend as low as the 'Prodigal Son' and end up deep in the mud --- including apparent atheism! (My boy logicboy, are you listening? ) But one day, the Spirit will stir within them, they will return to their senses, and they will return to their first love! Even C S Lewis is an example!

There are many examples of people who were atheists and even staunch atheists and yet one day for reasons they themselves cannot even explain, they turn back to God!

I'll like to finish with this passage from John 6

39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Thanks Alexleo; I'm sure you are referring to the same questions that I answered above. Or am I missing something?

Sorry, I had some background distractions.

I understand the concern raised with such warning passages especially strongly in two passages of Hebrews.

There is one danger we must avoid i.e. set scripture against scripture. Rather, we must always seek the harmony and congruence of scripture. One way of looking at "the warning passages" is to consider them as a check and balance: 'you'd better check yourself and see that you are in the faith.' I have to say that there are legitimate questions as to whether that answer is satisfactory and even I can punch some 'holes' in it.

On the other hand, the key thing to remember is that it is God who saves. Remember also that in John 3 it says that a person who is 'born again' is born of God; in other words, it is God Himself who makes a person born again. Such a person can not now be lost to God --- after being truly born again.

Ah, will do that now!

PS I will try and do further editing on the forum version e.g. colouring/higlighting etc etc later/gradually.

Meanwhile, if this works a text of the piece in Word Format should be attached to this post (with two added notes at the end --- intended to address potential questions).

The piece is completely and entirely open source; it may be copied, printed, shared, published, distributed etc etc 'as the Spirit wills'.