₦airaland Forum

Adaeze003: @enigma, I tried reading that post before but damn! It was long. Lol. Anyway, I don't think 'who put the bible together' is that important

The black bolded makes me laugh; however, to avoid being deceived by the lies and propaganda being spread vigorously and deliberately by Roman Catholic apologists one would have to read and read carefully sha o!

OK let me summarise all those long long posts into just two points:

1. The Roman Catholics did not finally decide on their own Bible until as late as the 16th century around AD 1546. Because it is an undeniable historical fact, the Roman Catholics sometimes gently admit this but try to twist other facts and things.

See an example of Roman Catholics admitting with style style that their own Bible was only finalised as late as the 16th century.

The statement below is taken from them very own Roman Catholic Encyclopaedia.

"The Canon of the New Testament, like that of the Old, is the result of a development, of a process at once stimulated by disputes with doubters, both within and without the Church, and retarded by certain obscurities and natural hesitations, and which did not reach its final term until the dogmatic definition of the Tridentine Council." {Note the "Tridentine Council" took place from AD 1546 onwards. }


2. This second one is more important than when the Roman Catholics made their own Bible. The point here is that by the end of the first century approximately, the books of the Bible had already been written and were already being "compiled" --- by Christians. At this time there was no such thing as the Roman Catholic Church or even "The Catholic Church". What we had then was the Church of Christ or the Christian Church. As an aside you may find it helpful to skim the Wikipedia entry on the Christian Church (well let's hope the Roman Catholics are not allowed to manipulate it beyond the pale with their propaganda).

This Christian Church is universal and thus catholic in that small 'c' sense meaning "universal". But the Christian Church had loooooooong been in existence before either the Roman Catholic Church or even "The Catholic Church".

To further simplify things, here is a statement I made in one of my older posts:

From here https://www.nairaland.com/1104124/problem-catholism-an-introspection/20#15107836

We already had "the Bible" waaaaaaay before the 4th century; Christians who were mostly not Roman Catholics had already seen to that.

Tgirl4real: ermm...bro Enigma, how does one tithe prayer?

My sweet sis, na our broda Bidam go explain that one oh! That one pass me! I think he did to some extent earlier sha (that's waht I was alluding to).

Edit: found the post; here https://www.nairaland.com/1430102/old-vs-new-covenant-revelation/9#18168064

In fact, I think it is beneficial to post an extract from that statement of Athanasius I referred to. While identifying and listing the books of "the Bible" in AD 367 (long before anything that the Roman Catholics can claim) he referred to:

"... the divinely inspired Scripture, concerning which we have been fully persuaded, as they who from the beginning were eye-witnesses and ministers of the Word, delivered to the Fathers; it seemed good to me also, having been urged thereto by true brethren, and having learned from the beginning, to set before you the books included in the Canon, and handed down, and accredited as divine ....... "

Read that carefully and of course go and read the old post to see the books of "the Bible" that he listed.

Bidam: Lol,true, when people worship money instead of God this is what happens.He really need to renew his mind really.He should know that God never invented money,It is man that invented it in this worldly system as a medium of exchange.so when God says tithes.their small minds will rush to money.SMH!!

Bidam, could you please clarify! Are you saying that "tithe" is NOT money?

Are you saying that "tithe" should NOT be money?

I am mindful that you said you "tithe" other things (e.g. prayer!); in that case are you saying that "tithe" should not only be money?

^^^ Read the links I gave earlier

Note one of the first statements from this one https://www.nairaland.com/1257440/catholic-catholic-back-catholic#17636669

=======================================================================================
Let me say from the outset that the point of this post is to show that at the time when the Bible was written and initially "compiled", there was NO such thing as "the Roman Catholic Church" or even "The Catholic Church".

Yep, and I repeat: there was NO such thing as "The Roman Catholic Church" or "The Catholic Church" at the time when the Bible was written and initially "compiled".
=======================================================================================


Let me throw a bonus in for you.

Read the contents of this old post very carefully. Think carefully about the entire post but especially the material quoted from Athanasius.

^^ Is that the kind of thing the Roman Catholic Church teaches you?

Anyway, I will take your advice. But then I have a question for you too.

Do you think your brain is worth anything?

You obviously cannot think, so you go and plagiarise and copy and paste what some nonce wrote and you don't have enough cleverness to ask questions. Let me help you: many things in what you plagiarised are false aka lies.

And no matter how much some Roman Catholics like to spread the lie, it remains the truth that it was NOT the Roman Catholic Church that "compiled" the Bible.

The Roman Catholic lie may travel for eons but the truth will still catch up with it.

Previously posted here: https://www.nairaland.com/1257440/catholic-catholic-back-catholic#17636669


The arguments of the Roman Catholic apologists that "they" "compiled" the Bible are based on falsehoods, misrepresentations and deliberate propaganda. I'm sorry to say that the propaganda even includes entries in Wikipedia and people should judge carefully when they read about Roman Catholicism in places like that. One would need to look beyond not so rigorous sources like Wikipedia.

Anyway here is a couple more helpful threads:

Short thread with short posts and quick to a number of significant points: https://www.nairaland.com/1254965/eastern-orthodox-church-orthodox-catholic

Longer with arguments from different sides: https://www.nairaland.com/1039359/canon-bible-roman-catholic-church



Addendum: and of course the thread from which the post came originally https://www.nairaland.com/1257440/catholic-catholic-back-catholic

Previously posted here: https://www.nairaland.com/1257440/catholic-catholic-back-catholic#17636669


The arguments of the Roman Catholic apologists that "they" "compiled" the Bible are based on falsehoods, misrepresentations and deliberate propaganda. I'm sorry to say that the propaganda even includes entries in Wikipedia and people should judge carefully when they read about Roman Catholicism in places like that. One would need to look beyond not so rigorous sources like Wikipedia.

Anyway here is a couple more helpful threads:

Short thread with short posts and quick to a number of significant points: https://www.nairaland.com/1254965/eastern-orthodox-church-orthodox-catholic

Longer with arguments from different sides: https://www.nairaland.com/1039359/canon-bible-roman-catholic-church



Addendum: and of course the thread from which the post came originally https://www.nairaland.com/1257440/catholic-catholic-back-catholic

[quote author=E<R>F]Lol, Morning sir. After every revolution, there is always a break in transmission

I don't get ya signature, can yhu explain it abit please?[/quote]The signature is actually a quote by an intellectual who also happens to be an atheist. He has written pieces showing up the nonsense spouted by the likes of Dawkins etc. In that quote, he is rebuking the people who go about claiming that religion is evil.

My bros with the cutest username, top of the morning oh!

Top of the morning everybody too and I trust the thread will start to get stronger again!

Bidam: Yeah..this is the extremism i am against. But arguing it won't solve the issue my brother.Na prayers. You think people can easily part with their hard earned cash without some demonic activity involved? There are actually very few genuine churches in the world today.The masses always go the wide gate principle.

My brother Bidam, I really want to scream this to you because the situation is far worse than alarming!

People [size=14pt]ARE[/size] easily parting with their hard earned cash and even dignity (e.g. women allowing 'pastors' to sleep with them) on a daily basis and even this minute in that very Nigeria!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People ARE being duped; Nigerians ARE being duped! Smart as you think they are, their own materialistic desires turn them to mumus and mugus ----- easily!

And if you think Nigerians are that "smart", go on the Internet and see Yahoo Yahoo people who were themselves yahooed into stripping and posing naked for photos and carrying ridiculous and demeaning posters.

I have found the video of the thief asking for "seeds" in dollars. At first I was reluctant to post the link to the thread because it was started by an atheist but that is the rebuke the rest of us deserve if we don't condemn such evil!

Anyway the reason that I am posting it is because even Image123* called the guy ---- a thief!


https://www.nairaland.com/889040/god-said-make-sure-give


*A very good but oft misunderstood poster even though I disagree with him on "tithing" of course.

Bidam: Except you re into the occult i don't think you can start a church with the intention of making profits and think you are going to get something out of it.Try it and see.Nigerians are no fools,they are more smarter than you think.

Bidam, people have been setting up "churches" with precisely the intention of making profits for a looong time. And not only in Nigeria! For an example in the USA go and read about the one time biggest televangelist - one Robert Tilton!

And in Nigeria, read about all the thieves asking people to "sow" in dollars because "God said so" (!) --- there is a particular video of one Nigerian thief like that duping people in Ghana with that one; it is on this Nairaland somewhere.

There is the example of another thief in London asking for a "passover" offering; I think most people can reasonably construe the "Passover Letter" below as having the intention of making profits.

"Passover Letter" direct link ----- http://www.ukwet.org/passoverletter.pdf

From https://www.nairaland.com/1437045/bishop-charlatan

Ilekokonit: I came across this letter from a Bishop on the internet and was left wondering if the man was actually a Bishop or a Charlatan.

UK WORLD EVANGELISM CHURCHES

2A Gosterwood Street Off Evelyn Street, Deptford. London SE8 5NX
Tel.: 0208 691 5175 Fax: 0208 694 5777 E-mail Address: simon@ukwet.org Website: www.ukwet.org


PASSOVER LETTER

My dear partner and friend, I made a pledge to the Lord to always share every revelation that I receive from Him
with you, so that your life may be built up and strengthened in your journey of faith. Jesus said, “You will know the
truth and the truth will set you free”.

The Lord showed me four years ago how to keep the memorial of the Passover in order to activate the covering of the Lord over my family and for deliverance from the works of darkness. I have experienced this miracle and have testified about it through my preaching.

The Lord inspired me to invite you to celebrate Passover with us. That is the reason why I am writing you this letter; all you have to do is;

1. Fill the enclosed form, stating the things you want God to do for you this year.

2. Enclose with it a Passover family miracle offering (£19, £29, £39, £59, £99 or any amount according to the size of your family). Deut.16:16-17.

Why not raise your faith to £99.00?

3.Post it back to me as soon as you can to put on the prayer altar of our church. I will be praying over these forms with other ministers presenting your request to God.

When I receive your reply I will be sending you a copy of the message I preached titled ‘Open Heavens’. If your offering is above £50, I will include a copy of the Passover family miracle message which I have preached in our service.

I will be sharing with you the revelations God has given me when we celebrate the Passover with our memorial offering.

Why do we ask for an offering as part of the celebration ?
It is because God asked that we should not approach the Passover altar with empty hands. Duet 16:16-17, 2 Chron. 20:20.

Hurry, do not delay while the angel is stirring the water. I look forward to receiving your form back.

Nothing shall be impossible with our God. Now this is your time.

This is your year of uncommon breakthrough, uncommon favour, a year of open heaven for those who honour the covenants of God. Your faith is based on your decision and action. ACT NOW
CLICK HERE TO PRINT OUT THE PASSOVER MIRACLE FORM

Your servant of God,

Bishop Simon Iheanacho
Overseer, UK World Evangelism Churches

“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever”. Hebrews 13 vs. 8
CHARITY REG. NO 1057527

source :- http://www.ukwet.org/passoverletter.pdf

[quote author=uj_sizzle]So you were 1guest? sweet[/quote]Probably, at least some of the time. lol

@Ihe, all is well that ends well!

@ HBG and E<R>F (hope I got that right, lol), well done!

HumbledbYGrace: I would hate to see you go but there is nothing I can do, the line has been drawn, it was nice having you around.

Sis, to be honest, apart from what I said I would do, I will also recommend that you return to the earlier rules for the thread and see what might yet be salvaged of the thread.

Considering all that has happened it would be easy for the regular members of the thread together to deal with 'intruders'.

_{Although my worry still remains about the damage that has already been done.}

[quote author=uj_sizzle] will you still come around after things blow over?[/quote]My sis, I have always read this thread even though I never posted.

It used to please me sooooo much to see such 'relative calm' in this mad house .... which is why I am interested in what is currently happening to the thread.

[quote author=E<R>F] Enigma might not be wah yhu are thinking when he wears the mod uniform.

Sizzle, av yhu been in any leadership position before? The one that involves not a small number of people?[/quote]My bros, I don't know if you know a Mod called Sexkills? Well, let's just say you ain't seen nothing yet!

[quote author=uj_sizzle]Why didn't you indicate mod interest sef? [/quote]My sis, make we dey looku and laughu!

[quote author=E<R>F]Now i'm getting you, you mean the thread av gone too far for the rules to be ammended or changed.

That is a food for thought though... What about her reasons?
Then we should suggest something to be done, because the "blasphemies" are uncalled for. Many peepz av reported, and her taking that decision wasn't a day personal reason naa.

Buh the truth is that something must be done or this thread would be locked.

So HBG i think you need to tell us the way forward. Either to leave the rules, and we continue arguing till you lock it up or you modify the rules and leave it for them the way it is.......or open another thread and place those rules and leave this one for them?

I'm in support of my last point though [/quote]The blue bolded is what many of our friends here are missing -- perhaps because of lack of information.

Mintayo: i won't support 'unsticking'(whatever that means) the thread...

[quote author=uj_sizzle]Oh and btw nobody is coming here to mess up this thread with silly comments cos i'll fight you like a coogar
and Enigma our thread aint going nowhere [/quote]Oh, I am not in fact suggesting that HBG should unsticky the thread.

I am saying what I would do in these circumstances knowing what I know!

@Ihedinobi

Let's just say that I have seen things that you have not seen.

TBH, if I was HBG and as things stand at this minute, this is what I will do:

I will go back and edit the OP once again. I will say that there are no longer any rules on this thread, it is a free for all and anyone can post whatever they deem fit.

I will then obtain the consent of the other Mods to unsticky it and let it find its level.

The people who had been saying that the thread should be unstickied and replaced with a general chat thread and those saying that if Christians have a stickied chat box, non Christians should too would both then have their way. At the moment only one of them does.

[quote author=uj_sizzle]Well said.

All our madam has succeeded in doing is throw open the door to whoever and whatever wants to make trouble.[/quote]True but you have to put things in context of how much they had been needling her and how much they had been buffetting her from different directions (on various related/unrelated threads).

Enigma: @ bolded: did someone just say something about an "oasis"? ....

Meanwhile, as I said, the thread has now been seriously if not terminally damaged.

ledafaze: If that is what you want, I will stop. But concerning the bolded, know that I have always been a looker on Nairaland... with so many forgotten IDs back in the days but decided to stick to this one recently... why? I needed something else to console me for the death of someone I lost... someone so dearly, which nothing could console but had to come to Nairaland more often, and just do my siddon-look-no-jutsu stuff like lucifer does...

No offence...

Those offended, I am so sorry...
Those not offended, I love you...
Those sitting on the fence, God loves you more.

CIAO

@ bolded: did someone just say something about an "oasis"?

@ ledafaze, wishing you the fulness of God's comfort.

[quote author=uj_sizzle]Well, true I don't like the manner HBG is handling this..pls tell her that. We've managed to keep annoying people out of here all these months and live relatively in peace, until her latest rule.
What does the bible say again about law and sin??[/quote]My dear sis

You are right that HBG should never have changed the rules of the thread. On the other hand, for various reasons, I am deliberately being mindful in how vocal or clearly I express any criticism of HBG. There are bigger issues involved. And as I said, the 'destroyers', and 'loonies' etc can even undo the patience of Job.

Yessur, bros!

[quote author=uj_sizzle]It's less about running and more about trying not to lose my cool here. There's only so much a person can take at once dear, so the sake of peace i'll be taking a leave of absence when things blow over like i said it would we'll see how things go [/quote]The 'destroyers', 'underminers' and the 'loonies' can undo the patience of even Job!

[quote author=Mynd_44]You might also note that suddenly changing the rules of a game because you are losing to get back at those you see as "winning" is a huge sign of how childish you are.

This is a public forum and you are free to comment anywhere you want to as long as you follow the rules of the forum. You cannot start pulling silly rules out of your hat because you feel like[/quote]Read my post again ----carefully!

Ihedinobi: I appreciate being respected, HBG, I really do, but even at the risk of losing your respect I will endeavor to be true to Christ, my dear sister.

Have you ever turned out a visitor or a stranger because they have homes of their own? Even if you have, is it right to do so?

I understand what you are saying and I also still think HBG might have handled things differently.

However bros, one more thing to note: some people had always been bent on disrupting this one unique oasis for those who do not wish to join in the madness on the main 'Religion' forum; in recent times a couple of other groups or types of poster have also been interested in undermining this thread.

Now, they are getting their way and the thread has already been damaged and may even already be terminally damaged; the regulars will leave, the lunatics will be here for a short period and then leave; then the thread will be unstickied as no longer fit for purpose.

Wisdom: be gentle as a dove but wise as a serpent.



(PS BTW, I suspect this is my own first ever post on the thread!)

@debosky

Sorry, I've looked at your Maths again and I think it is correct.

Let's just say I am not fully awake yet (literally)!

debosky: A brief addition elder brother.

Your above analogy applies in most cases, but if you are a higher rate tax payer, you can claim back some of your tax from the government if you choose to do so. Most people don't, so as you say, there is usually no benefit for those who give - their giving to the organisation simply increases.

For example, if you donate £100, the total value of your donation to the charity is £125 - so you can claim back:
£25 - if you pay tax at 40 per cent (£125 × 20%)
£31.25 - if you pay tax at 45 per cent (£125 × 20%) plus (£125 × 5%)

Actually, you are right albeit also perhaps it could be more clearly explained still.

The higher rate tax payer (not every taxpayer) can claim some amount back on the charitable giving but not the total amount. Say he pays tax at 45%; he gives 100 pounds to charity on Giftaid; the charity gets an extra 20% (basic rate) and the higher rate taxpayer can then claim back the difference between 45% and 20% on the 100 pounds.

Could you please do that Maths for me?

And sorry (to Bidam especially), I should have mentioned that. However, in practice and in terms of church giving, I will say that the proportion of people who make this claim back is very small.

Firstly, the traditional churches here: Anglicans, Catholics, Baptists etc do not preach tithing. So, any claim back will be done on the basis of offerings and donations. Thus, the scheme does not really encourage people to "tithe" as such as claimed by Bidam.

Second, it is usually African and some Oyibo Pentecostal Churches that preach tithing and I will argue that the proportion of people claiming back on tithes even in those are small; I will also argue that the proportion of people paying tithes because of that is small.




EDIT debosky bros, I posted without the benefit of your edit and subsequent posts but I still wonder if your calculations do not need to be revised i.e. what taxpayer can claim back is difference between higher rate and basic rate?