₦airaland Forum

I found an interesting website, has anybody registered on it?

http://www.igbomatch.com/phpBB2/index.php

Maybe this discussion should be moved there.

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=263214.msg8316525#msg8316525 date=1305327455]Eh. . . it is one thing to say, "my grandma comes from ethnic group X", and "I am from that same ethnic group." Connection != same

Anyway, I'll leave it at that. . . no doubt they'll speak up clarify. I wish there was a private messaging system on this forum.[/quote]Tell that to the people over history that have lost their cultures due to marrying other peoples women. Anyway, the wife's part is in relation to the kinship between parts of Abia and Imo and Opobo and Bonny. We can even see the Amanyanabo participating in Igbo events. At the end of the day Bonny and Opobo are both Igbo speaking towns with people claiming Igbo, and that puts them in the Igbo world, whether there are Ijaw people there or not.

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=263214.msg8316363#msg8316363 date=1305325095]Eh. . . if the territory south of you ends up in a different country and you violate the rights of that country, then all I can wish you is good luck.[/quote]Right, the Kalabari with all their grandmothers in Umuahia, and the Igbo speaking Bonny, other distant countries. All that will happen is that Bonny River would be an open channel.

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=263214.msg8316363#msg8316363 date=1305325095]You are beating a straw man. Nobody is claiming that there aren't interconnections. But if they say that they aren't Igbo, who is to tell them otherwise? It is their right to make that decision, is it not?[/quote]Isn't the idea of 'distinction' and 'connected'? You talked about me trying to blur the distinction, how is it a straw man when I tell you there is no distinction because people are interconnected? What we know is that many people on Bonny claim Igbo and Ijaw ancestry, again if you want, call Ijaw_Girl to come and tell us there is 'distinction' between Igbo and Ijaw on Bonny.

Obiagu1:
The problem with what they identify now is that those that have no problem with their roots, ie Igbo, will not come and write articles telling everyone who he is. Will an Anambra man or Imo man write such an article telling the world he is an Igbo? No. He doesn't need to tell you he is an Igbo man, it's not his concern and he's not having identity crisis.

Those that deem it necessary to deny or claim something else are the ones that keep making the effort to tell the world I am not that but this. By so doing, the voices you hear are the ones making the effort to claim something else but the reality on the ground is quite different.

I had a friend from Opobo and he told me he was Igbo. This was because he overheard me telling someone else he was not Igbo so he had to correct me. Then I never knew about Opobo and their history.

You're correct. You should see the look of shock of people from places like Aniocha, Ukwuani, and Ikwerre when you tell them some of their kinsmen deny being Igbo. It makes things very confusing, but you have to remember that it takes a hand full of 'sabotwas' to destroy a nation.

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=263214.msg8316146#msg8316146 date=1305321888]But If I have a boat, I cannot just sail from Nigeria to Minnesota say up the Mississippi river. Someone owns the rights to that river.

In a hypothetical post-Nigeria situation, those down the river would also own the rights. You won't be able to sail up and down it w/o their permission.[/quote]Who owns the Suez Canal? With the industrial might of a potential Igbo country, what international organisation/corporation will support cutting off the Igbo from the coast short of 45 km? The Bonny river isn't one of the 100 largest rivers in the world, the estuary is right next to Port Harcourt. If there's hostility for some reason in the Bonny River region, there's little land owners can do to stop ships on coming in to Port Harcourt on water.

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=263214.msg8316146#msg8316146 date=1305321888]Eh. . . what you say contradicts what some of them have said about their own identity. Then again, you have a vested interest in blurring the distinction. . . and perhaps they have an interest in making it more distinct.

In any case, it is up to them to decide. Nobody can claim them unless both sides agree.[/quote]Well by the fact that they're still practising Igbo culture, by the fact that they only speak Igbo, and by the fact that they have a strong connect to the southern Igbo, intermarrying heavily with those especially from places like Umuahia, this blurring has already happened hundreds of years ago. Go and call Ijaw_Girl and tell her to tell me the Ijaw and Igbo haven't blended in Bonny.

What about Benue? What local governments have people identifying as Igbo in them?

Obiagu1:
There's nothing like some Igbo connections. Both Bonny and Opobo were founded by the Igbos and the Igbo remains the core of both town both in native and language. Maybe a little reading will help you.

I think he's talking more about what they identify now, but they are Ibani and Opobo.

ChinenyeN:
By central do you mean the "standard"/"general"/"school" Igbo?

The general language around that area.

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=263214.msg8316029#msg8316029 date=1305320420]But so long as those towns remain intact, then anyone sailing past will be going through another man's territory. They don't lose control of that territory even if it turns to water.[/quote]Not if that 'other man' travels to your hinterland to visit the home of his forefathers. There's no land to go through, just the bonny river with a few empty wet island's.

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=263214.msg8316029#msg8316029 date=1305320420]That wasn't my question. I asked if they consider themselves Ijaw or Igbo.[/quote]Some consider themselves Igbo, some Ijaw, most just Ibani (Bonny) or Opobo, but Igbo identity is becoming attractive.

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=263214.msg8316029#msg8316029 date=1305320420]If some of the bonny island indigene posters (e.g., ijaw_girl) here are any indication, at best they'll say "Ijaw with some Igbo connections." Which is different from "Igbo."[/quote]They have a half Igbo, half Ijaw culture, I wouldn't call speaking the Igbo language natively as some Igbo connections.

LoveKing:
Even edo have roots in yoruba so why is egun not yoruba?

Yoruba are Egun people, how about that?

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=263214.msg8315951#msg8315951 date=1305319578]No one lives in those marshes? Why would they disappear within 20 years? Are you saying the marsh would disappear, or the inhabitants. . . ?[/quote]The mangroves that are already disappearing and in danger. There small towns dotted around wherever there's enough land on those islands.

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=263214.msg8315951#msg8315951 date=1305319578]Both Opobo and Bonny Island consider themselves Ijaw rather than Igbo, I thought.[/quote]They speak Igbo natively and have a very 'Igboid' culture, even their founders are Igbo. The people that identify Igbo amongst them though would be recent traders that go there. Even in the case that they don't identify as Igbo, there's no transition for them to be part of Igbo culture and they are closely linked to the southern Igbo groups.

They'd rather dismantle it and sell it back to you.

Give him some motivations. I want to know who 'dog' is.

. . . . . .says the credible source.

[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=666210.msg8315471#msg8315471 date=1305313537]if I were ibo ![/quote]You're not, so get over it.

The second language of Rivers is Igbo, sorry the first language of Rivers is Igbo, but it doesn't mean 80% of people identify as Igbo, their groups are just classified like that.

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=263214.msg8310290#msg8310290 date=1305249485]Nah, you are landlocked. The coastal parts of Rivers are non-Igbo[/quote]What haven't you learnt from nairaland? What you're calling coast land is mangrove/marshland that will disappear in the next 20 years. Why do you think Port Harcourt was built 40 km from the coast line? Because there's no suitable land below Okrika. Port Harcourt is linked to the sea through a series of rivers, the most important is the Bonny River, guess where that links to? Igbo speaking Bonny island. Guess where that's next to? Igbo speaking Opobo.

Fhemmmy:
Lol . . . The question is what about Nigeria should make someone happy?

Nice question. Can't answer it.

See what is worrying people here. If they analyse Nigeria properly you will cry.

Tattoos are part of some Nigerian ethnic groups.

Picture: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/News/5699689-146/story.csp

odumchi:
"You use money to buy food."

Umuahia/Central: Hé ji ego a zu ri.
Ika : Yèji egho à zu ihnye ori

As far as I can see, whether you get 'national cake' or not, your people will still starve if they are starving. No part of Nigeria is living in human conditions.

Let's see if it will be "I have made education free in Imo state".

Beaf:
https://trooperworld.wdfiles.com/local--files/calabar-kingdon/king3.JPG.jpeg

The Obong of Calabar.

Not the Obong of Calabar, not even Nigerian, this is a Cameroonian king.

vincenzo, I mela.

"Rochas in Ogoni". Baseless rumours to the front page.

bokohalal:
I am not getting something.If they were swallowed up or diluted how did the culture survive in the  natives?
You will agree with me that your statement is contradictory.

I meant to say parts of their culture like monarchy, many of them were swallowed up by other groups but parts of their culture still survived. For example Agbor people dance nothing like how Bini people dance.

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=662398.msg8281586#msg8281586 date=1304885946]even english, french, spanish, italian etc were all initially spoken as vernacular/pidgin variations of latin (roman empire) and over time have come to take on an identity of their own as these places became independent.
that's my basis for stating that Nigerian pidgin may go the same route because as far as i'm concerned, so far as Nigeria stays together, we need a unifying language to communicate with. even if it means that yoruba, igbo etc will eventually die out as individual languages.
pidgin will incorporate parts of all these languages anyway.[/quote]Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa, etc, are not dying, they're staying in the area that they are native to. The example of Rome and cultures that have old ties to it does not compare to a Germanic language taking over Niger-Congo languages, it hasn't even happened in Angola yet.

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=662398.msg8282535#msg8282535 date=1304898777]you also have to be realistic.
mugabe kicked white farmers off his country despite the fact that black farmers do not have the skills, resources etc to take over efficiently. we know d result of that.[/quote]That doesn't relate to using your own language. And the majority of those white farmers speak Afrikaans more than English.

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=662398.msg8282535#msg8282535 date=1304898777]you can't just install a new system when you don't have something else to replace the old 'colonial' system with.  it might just make things worse even though your motives are pure.[/quote]If you've visited Nigeria and travelled around out of Lagos, you would know that the majority of Nigerians cannot speak English fluently or properly, not even in the 'richer' south. The languages that are used most often are the native languages, even in English classes in state schools you may here native languages being used. There is no system to replace, rather, it is a question of how these languages can be promoted to official use in official situations so that native people who will never meet a foreigner for a job can understand what is written on their street signs, constitution, courts, ect. This is not how to make English disappear.

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=662398.msg8282535#msg8282535 date=1304898777]yea you can have many official languages but you need one major one. esp for administration, education etc.
if you have scholars and administrators writing in different languages, yes you will "preserve culture" how do you expect anything to be efficient or progressive?[/quote]Like noted before, this isn't how to make English disappear. Have you asked yourself how Europeans (including North America) and Asians have the highest institutions in the world despite almost every country on these continents having several different languages that are not English? Did you know that there are other languages that are used in Spain for example (Catalan, Basque, etc)? If scholars want to share information or if there is a federal situation, then it's fine to use English, or like how some people are suggesting Swahili, but in the state level where people mix the English with their native languages anyway, each state can have their own languages used.

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=662398.msg8282535#msg8282535 date=1304898777]like i said earlier, many of those languages you mention above, if you study their history you will realize that they evolved over time. french was originally referred to as "vulgar latin" when they were conquered and became part of the roman empire. in the same way we have our own "pidgin english" as former colony of the british empire. and i'm sure those french people have their own original languages that have long died out or gotten incorporated into the pidgin latin that is called "French language" today. same way pidgin english incorporates yoruba, hausa, igbo etc.[/quote]Hong Kong, Canada, Malaysia, Singapore, India, Sri Lanka and other places were colonised by Britain, but many of them have a native official language or multiple official used languages (like Canada). Nigeria's situation is not like that of Old France and Rome. Most Nigerians do not speak English or pidgin English in place of their languages, most Nigerian languages are not being replaced by English, most Nigerian languages are not a result of English mixed with native languages, most Nigerians are not looking to replace their languages with English or pidgin.

Rome did not last only a few decades in France, it lasted a few hundred years with the Romans and Roman law as the head of the society.

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=662398.msg8282535#msg8282535 date=1304898777]this is why i say pidgin english may be our official language in the future (many many  many years from now of course).[/quote]There's not trend showing that this is happening. That is, in the main areas where these languages are being spoken.

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=662398.msg8282546#msg8282546 date=1304899040]all we can do is make the most of what we have.
even if we start writing in igbo you know that it was the british who created the igbo writing system right? based on latin alphabet that the british inherited from their own colonizers lol
so can u then say that igbo writing also perpetuates colonial mentality?[/quote]It wasn't the British, it was Bishop Samuel Ajayi Crowther, the current Onwu script was created in the 60's by a committee of Nigerians.

Most of the native languages in Nigeria are used more than English is in the communities where they are the main language, the situation is that these languages are not used in official matters like government because English is the maintained language and Nigerian languages are informal. Although the argument is that you need English as the main language to communicate with others or the rest of the country, there are many situations that a person can find themselves in a town where English would not be enough, like in a market. The most that an average market woman in a city, town or village that isn't Lagos-Port Harcourt-Abuja can speak is pidgin, even then they can't get through the day on customers speaking to them on pidgin alone, one of the reasons why working people pick up other languages when they travel to other parts of the country. There are other examples, yet the courts are in English, the news is in English (states have their news translated and this is all the people ever listen to anyway), the constitution and other important documents are only in English. The thing is, can there be a way to make these languages or the largest languages convincing enough to be made official? Would Nigerians accept their languages as that of education (imagine teaching maths in a Nigerian language), government (imagine the constitution in a Nigerian language), and administration (imagine street signs or road marks in a Nigerian language)? How can the upgrading of these languages be successfully done when considering people that have been speaking these languages a certain way for years?

This does not mean removing English.

The diversity of languages has been overcome in other countries such as Switzerland (Four official, non-English languages).