₦airaland Forum

[quote author=EzeUche_ link=topic=500126.msg7762154#msg7762154 date=1298135805]Agreed. However, the Ikwerre hold the key to our march to the sea. Once the Ikwerre remember their roots, they will be welcomed. The younger generation is different from their parent's generations. They understand that they are Igbos.

I can see Opobo and Bonny under our flag, but the Okrika and Kalabari will be the hardest to win over to our sides. [/quote]

Obiagu1:
I've said it and will say it again, Igbos are not going to yield an inch of Kalabari, Opobo, Bonny and Okrika to the Ijaws. Those 4 clans must remain independent of the Ijaw because they are not Ijaw but majority Igbo and minority Ijaw. They all have Igbo blood running in their veins!

When Igbo denial era ends with Ikwerre leading the way back to the Igbo nation, we will reconnect fully with the Kalabari, Opobo, Bonny, and Okrika. They are our brothers.

Kalabari isn't Igbo. . . . .

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=599800.msg7763126#msg7763126 date=1298146606]Biafra fought the white man's war. . . thinking they fought a tribal war.[/quote]Biafra didn't declare war. Biafra wasn't back by European powers.

Here is what I am wandering: How did traders from Arochukwu speak with traders from Nike-Ngwo (Enugwu) 'central Igbo', How did traders from Onicha speak with traders from Aba before 'central Igbo'?

Beaf:
^
Is Obeah an Igbo word? Damn! I've learnt something new!

Yes, you may have heard 'Dibia', which some say is 'Di Obia', practitioner of shrine/sciences/magic etc. Some Igbo towns still use 'Obia'.

PhysicsRND:
Anyways, like I said, only the unscientific, mythology leaning types could believe stuff like that.

Yeah, so back to the point: Eri is not mythological.

PhysicsRND:
I don't think you followed the story.


Osanobua (God) created/birthed Idu/Oduduwa.

Idu = Adam (more or less)

But Chukwu created/birthed Eri.  And the stories (mythology) are very similar.

PhysicsRND:
Not according to Binis.

I was quoting Binis, so. . .

PhysicsRND:
The youngest son of Osanobua was the only spirit out of the four sons who could have the physical human body attribute on stepping on the land, because that was the advantage of the physical or material choice he made. It was put in his hand from heaven. The other sons were deities. The youngest son, the ruler of the earth, represents innocence and so is susceptible to the powers of the deities, his brothers. These same weak and strong, good and evil, physical and spiritual, influences form the basic elements of all modern religions, with man endowed with the power to make choices.

Junior wanted his older spirit brothers to remain with him on his land. The oldest brother chose to take his spirit gift and live in what was left of the water. The other two brothers accepted junior's invitation and deposited their spirit selves and gifts on the land as soon as they stepped on it from the canoe. Junior stepped on his land gingerly at first, then vigorously, stamping hard and repeatedly on it, running and rolling over it. He looked around and felt good and happy with his enormous gift. He called his land agbon (earth) and himself, Idu, meaning the first human on earth."

So he fell from water?

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=607521.msg7758859#msg7758859 date=1298081337]Because we already dropped the weapons after Fulani-Arabs ran away, Oyinbos used wayo on all of us. Wayo is better than any weapon  

BTW oyinbos are still using wayo, so be vigilant on your side ok. Convert back to worshipping Amadioha, we worship our own Orisas here in Yorubaland [/quote]In the east, they continued fighting, whether with guns or dropped guns. My eyes are open.

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=607521.msg7758859#msg7758859 date=1298081337]You better not go there. Some people(igbos included) boast that African Americans are Igbos so go figure.[/quote]Some African Americans boast that they are Igbo.

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=607521.msg7758859#msg7758859 date=1298081337]Anyway let me give you a little of what the remnants of Yorubas did in The Americas;

We cunningly acted like we accepted Oyinbo religion, then we converted all their saints and gods to Yoruba Orisas

Ask my people in Cuba, Brazil, Jamaica and even in Lousiana and the Americas  [/quote]Leave Jamaica, that is Igbo Obeah country. The oyinboes (a word first used by Olaudah Equiano ) that dealt with the Yoruba were not as 'serious' as the British. The Portuguese and sometimes Spanish were not serious in their 'Empire building' and they took too many slaves to South America, most from Angola/Congo, and the other majority from Yoruba. The Igbo religion did not survive like the Yoruba religion did in South America in any British colony of the time because there were no saints to hide their religion in, the slaves were not pushed into their own quarters as freely unchecked in British colonies, and the plantation owners were very strict.

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=607521.msg7758859#msg7758859 date=1298081337]I will respect you guys back when you start worshipping Arochukwu-Long-Juju or Amadioha back in Oyinboland and in the east.[/quote]You think there's no one in the east attending to those Arushi?

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=607521.msg7758859#msg7758859 date=1298081337]We have Oyinbos bowing to Yemoja, Esu, Obatala, Osun and Sango as we type.

Don't try the children of Oduduwa o!

The next catholic pope will probably come from South America, that will be the end. He will definitely be a private worshipper of Obatala at the least. [/quote]

PhysicsRND:
lol so he didn't descend from the sky?


Ok. 

Suuuuuurrrre.

PhysicsRND:
So apparently before the 7th century AD, one Akka, son of Oduduwa (who was actually Idu), had coined the word Otoidu (Otoedo).

Uhh, didn't this guy come from the sky?

PhysicsRND:
How is gods of the Edo (Ebo n'Edo) not used the same way?

You answered yourself in the next sentence.

PhysicsRND:
Hmmm. The Edo earthworks just so happen to have started around the 7th-8th century.  How convenient.  Kind of like how Eri just so happens to have lived around 900AD and Igbo-Ukwu happens to have flourished at that time.  How convenient.

If there were any leaded bronze artworks among the earth works then it would be very, convenient.

PhysicsRND:
Mythological histories are interesting, but let's not get carried away.

Yeah, but Eri is not mythological.

They came and set up bases in the 1800's, but in limited places mostly around the Niger river.

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=607521.msg7758793#msg7758793 date=1298078933]Hahaha

My Aro Brotha, Forget that your Aro-gundade war! Even the British had to sign yahoo-yahoo documents to stop us from fighting.  

We thought the document was a surrender agreement for the Fulanis who were light skinned like Oyinbos. [/quote]Why didn't they fight when they saw the documents were not talking about surrendering?

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=607521.msg7758793#msg7758793 date=1298078933]Oyinbos Could only take a few yorubas into slavery, it was not an error! You Can't keep scorpions in your pocket and go to sleep.

Even most of the ones they took were returned back to Freetown and badagry ASAP.[/quote]Same for Igbo slaves.

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=607521.msg7758793#msg7758793 date=1298078933]Ask me about the few ones that didnt come back, I'll tell you the havok they wrecked in the diaspora. [/quote]Don't even enter this territory, because it is the Igbo and then the Akan of Ghana who win this one.

[quote author=EzeUche_ link=topic=607521.msg7758756#msg7758756 date=1298077939]I guess you haven't heard of the warriors from Easter Igboland. Where the clans of the east took head-hunting to another level. And the skulls of our enemies were used contain palm wine. Some may call that barbaric, but in war, anything goes.

And like I always say, it was the Aro Confederacy that were the last to fall and even have a war named after us. The Anglo-Aro war. What other group in Nigeria has that distinction?[/quote]Anglo-Benin war?
Aba women's riot?

Beaf:
Fail.

Urhobo own the copyright to the word, ikebe.
Here is a diagram of body parts in Igbo. Anioma peeps heard the word from Urhobo's, loved it and began to use it. Anybody would, its so damn descriptive!

Igbo words for parts of the body:

https://www.igbofocus.co.uk/assets/images/Learn_Igbo_Fig_10.gif

Igbo also call the 'bottom' 'Ukwu' (High, low). Google Failure.

[quote author=Chyz* link=topic=607521.msg7758639#msg7758639 date=1298074881]Ikebe is the Igbo word for backside as well. [/quote]Delta State and the Igbo own pidgin.

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=607521.msg7758605#msg7758605 date=1298074228]What was lost can be regained  

Edo, Delta, Kwara, Kogi will all be returned to us, when it is all said and done. Niger, Bayelsa, and Nassarawa are new territories, though.[/quote]Delta minus Ukwuani, Aniocha and Ika, otherwise you also have a problem with their relatives over the Niger, although they can handle themselves.

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=607521.msg7758512#msg7758512 date=1298072997]Obi = Parent

Oba = King

See,  Yorubaland is your parent and your Lord and king.

Surrender and we will treat you well [/quote]Obi - Man's central house, King, Igbo.

Oba - Red, symbolising royalty Edo.

PhysicsRND:
Eri named his sons with the word Igbo (I thought Igbo just meant "person" or "man" in Igbo and that Ndigbo meant "the people," in Igbo?) in them, so he was making a conscience and concerted reference to a not fully extant ethnic group? That makes little sense to me.

That is the  mere mention of the word, not the use of it to designate an ethnic group.

One of Eri's grandsons was called (or started a town called) Amaigbo. 'Ama Igbo' means 'Igbo area/town/square'. He also had a grandson called Igbo Ora (or started a town called Igbo Ora). 'Igbo Ora' means 'Igbo public/population'. Eri, or those who named his grandsons, knew what they were doing when naming them. The 'Igbo' (or their ancestors) existed before Eri.

PhysicsRND:
An example of groups using the word for an ethnic group since time immemorial: Contrary to Egharevba, other,  more mythological Benin oral historians (not unlike those Igbo oral historians who claim Eri came down from the sky) actually believed that Edo was the cradle of creation ("Edo Ore Isi Agbon" by Osanobua. Also, the gods of Benin people have always been called the Ebo n'Edo.

Apparently "Edo" has been around since creation. 

The word Edo is not used like Eri's descendants used Igbo.

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=607521.msg7758445#msg7758445 date=1298072154]@Obiagu leave that side. Once they taste Yoruba it's over. Even Obi(Yoruba word) of Onitsha go dey dance to Sunny Ade at the handover Ceremony.

Ok, but Obi is Yoruba [/quote]What does Obi mean in Yoruba, in fact what does Oba mean in Yoruba, because even Oba is not Yoruba.

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=607521.msg7758445#msg7758445 date=1298072154]@Obiagu leave that side. Once they taste Yoruba it's over. Even Obi(Yoruba word) of Onitsha go dey dance to Sunny Ade at the handover Ceremony.

Ok, but Obi is Yoruba [/quote]Which Obi?

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=607521.msg7758393#msg7758393 date=1298071606]Abi Gbosa! Una go hear am! [/quote]Igbo word.

Katsumoto:
Ol boy, leave story; we know why. In Warri, you hear comments like 'JAMB no dey finish'.  

Give credit to when it is deserved.

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=607521.msg7758299#msg7758299 date=1298070840]Anything with gbo belongs to Yorubaland, ever heard of Ugboland people of Ondo state? They are from ile-Ife

I'm sorry, but we are coming for everything bro. [/quote]It's not only Gbo, it's gbuo!

Beaf:
I'm sure you're joking sha. But its a very expensive joke. Urhobo and Igbo are the biggest groups in Delta state by a very large margin, but thank God for the wisdom he has blessed the state with (Urhobo wayo), we have a state that is not only peaceful, but the only one in Nigeria governed by a small minority. It will be Igbo's next, then Isoko or Ijaw. Whereas, the Igbo and Uhrobo could keep it as a birthright as occurres in the ethnically bigoted politics that is tearing the wider country apart.
Small minds like Jasons (who doesn't even know the name of his village) cannot see this and keep looking back to periods when the Itsekiri were basically facing extermination. Thanks to our politics, Delta state is the best in the country; we have the highest standard of living, we almost always produce the top JAMB results, we own vast sections of Nollywood, banking and the Nigerian press; and despite being marshy, we are arguably the most industrialised after Lagos.

All hail wayo!!!

Anyways, the above is the reason why Delta state should not be mentioned when discussing the politics of bigotry, cos we are leagues beyond that.

It's true oh! Eziokwu ro!

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=607521.msg7758176#msg7758176 date=1298069544]How many kingdoms have they conquered before?

Have they ever been accused of genocide?

Can they make women desert their children at the sounds of their war drums?

I advice you ask nri Agbor to run or have an ishakole treaty ready. War is coming [/quote]They don't need to conquer anyone to prove their strength. Ndi Agbor have held off the Benin Empire before. For their size that is very good. Anyway, come and take it now.

naijababe:
See dis one. We don share finish. You are too late mate  

Okay, Ijebu-Igbo, Igbo Ora and Igbominna are definitely Igbo. Lagos is even nothing.

naijababe:
Up for grabs ke? Why u dey do rewind na abi u don forget say we don rename Bayelsa & Delta to Bayilosa & Dileta respectively?

Don't start oh! You better stick to non Igbo Delta, because Igbo have a bigger case in Yoruba land.

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=607521.msg7758145#msg7758145 date=1298069147]^^ Eish! You better take your Agbor with as fast as you can before the warriors arrive. The whole of Delta and Bayelsa are up for grabs right now.[/quote]Which warriors? You must not know about ndi Agbor then.

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=607521.msg7758104#msg7758104 date=1298068634]You just dey carry aggros come? Check the title of the thread again. It's fantasy-claim season.

The itshekiri already joined with Ilajes to lay claim on Ughelli and Sapele. I heard Warri and Agbor is next. [/quote]Eish! I know you people are playing, but don't you dare mention Agbor or any Ali ndi Ika again!

PhysicsRND:
You blatantly asserted that no other ethnic group of Nigerians has been using their current name for their ethnic group as long as Igbos. That cannot possibly be proven.

Are there any ethnic-groups with ancestors using their groups name as early as Eri did?

PhysicsRND:
My point about the Jukun culture head was that giving me a link to Igbo-Ukwu archaeological sites and artifacts doesn't save your claim from being unsupportable nonsense. You could just admit that saying Igbo have the oldest continuous use of the word for their ethnic designation in all of Nigeria was unsupportable trash.

I actually gave a source with the names of Eri's grandson's some of who founded Igbo towns that exist today.

PhysicsRND:
As for Benin, I said "is held." Not "did." That shouldn't be hard to understand.

Oh, but it's not "unsupportable trash" because to you it "is held". Okay, it "is held" that Igbo is the oldest word for an ethnic group existing in Nigeria shown by the names of the sons of Eri.

PhysicsRND:
The source is Egharevba and numerous other oral historians. Considering that it's coming from him (J. Egharevba), I could dismiss it. But in this case I think it's plausible.

Egharevba is an author from the 12th century? Everything you say from now on without a 'source' from that time is "unsupportable trash", okay?

PhysicsRND:
How are you not getting this? You claimed that Igbo people were calling themselves Igbo in 910 AD and continued to do so up till the present day but that other groups did not.


Now look at this:

https://www.memoiredafrique.com/images/amis/2204.jpg

2204 - Jukun male head with a large skull

H. 23 cm
550 A. D. +/- 100 years
Private collection


Lets say it's 550 AD - 100 years.

That's 450 AD and it's associated with the "Jukun culture of terracottas" because it was found in the Jukun area. The same way Igbo-Ukwu is associated with Igbos because it was found in the heart of Igboland.

What if it turns out that the Jukun have been calling themselves Jukun from 450 AD, up to the present day? There's no proof of that, but if a Jukun comes here and asserts that this is the case, then he's totally rubbished your claim and disproved it by your bizarre reasoning.

Don't just make weird unsupportable claims. That's my point. This is the second one you've made on this thread (the other one was about only two groups in the whole of West Africa putting up a worthy resistance to the British).

Then find Jukun ancestors that used Jukun then and they will have the oldest name. Don't ask me about sauce when most of the things even you believe and repeat on here do not have any.

PhysicsRND:
Oh. I get it. My confusion was because the people called themselves Edo, not Benin, although the kingdom was known as Ibinu/Bini/Beny/Benin. So within the context of this discussion about what people have been calling themselves for hundreds of years, the 12th century date threw me because it seems kind of obvious that they wouldn't arbitrarily just start calling themselves Edo in the 12th century. But you're correct that Igodomigodo is held to have become known by a different name (Bini/Benin) around that time.

Sauce please.

PhysicsRND:
No.

You're not getting it are you?

1. You claimed that the word Igbo as a word identifying the ethnic group had existed longer than the word identifying any other ethnic group in Nigeria, a claim which can not be proven and actually sounds quite bizarre.

It only sound's 'bizarre' if you want it to be. There are many things from Africa that can't be proven from this logic.

Katsumoto:
But you can't prove that Igbo is the oldest ethnic name in Nigeria; that is the point PhysicsABC is making. The first variant of Bini arrived in the 12/13th century.

Do you have sauce from that time?

PhysicsRND:
I didn't say Igbo did not exist in 910.

You're the one who said Igbo is the oldest existing name for an ethnic group in Nigeria. A claim that can't be proven.

Can't be proven because there's no European source at that time? Are you sure you want to stick to this statement?

PhysicsRND:
That's precisely my point.


You made some claim about Igbo being the oldest surviving name for an ethnic group, but can you even produce a 1450 AD that mentions the word Igbo?

So how does not having a European source change the fact that 'Igbo' existed in 910 through Eri?