₦airaland Forum

asha 80:
Guy you dey court trouble here.

What do you mean? There was nothing on the site where Port Harcourt is today, the last map shown shows that.

Obiagu1:
Everyone should please ignore ezeagu, he's raising issues that was discussed earlier on. Please do not revisit those issues again folks.
His argument doesn't end, kobojunkie 2.0

I think people should decide for themselves what they think is important to discuss and not just to ignore the issue and put their hands over their ears. It's not official that Bonny and Opobo are 'Igbo towns'.

To discuss other parts of Igboland, the settlement furthest west of Igboland is not actually Agbor, but a town called [url=http://maps.google.com/maps/mm?ie=UTF8&hl=en&ll=6.297042,6.028061&spn=0.077976,0.097504&t=h&z=13]Abudu[/url].

Furthest north is a town called is Eke.

I don't know about west, that is harder.

Obiagu1:
^^^

Don't you know the meaning of the words "majority", "founder", and "language spoken"?

Probably my last reply to you. Peace.

This is going round and round. The fact is there are many Igbo towns that were originally non-Igbo. Agbor is not an Igbo name for example, and a few others as well. The majority of the island of Bonny have Ijaw surnames. The majority of Bonny people speak Igbo, yes, but their leaders don't identify as such, as the British said they are of 'Eboe descent', not their current ethnicity. Isn't the majority of Bonny a mix of Igbo and Ijaw? The people can identify with what they want, and the fact that an Igbo person founded Bonny doesn't mean anything, because Opobo was Ibibio land. You say that there was nothing on the current site of Opobo? So what was on the site of present day Port Harcourt before Lugard? Nothing, but it's still an Igbo city.

Andre Uweh:
I say no to aggresion. Looking at the photograph of Jaja you posted earlier on, you will realise that the Igbo has lost a lot to Ijaw culture in Rivers state. Those descendats of Jaja no longer wear Igbo traditional dresses, but Ijaw with English hats, Igbo children are not allowed to to read and write Igbo in the schools in Rivers state. No higher institution of learning in Rivers state has dept of Igbo language yet 3 million Igbo people are in Rivers state.
In Delta state, Ndigbo constitute 35-40% of the population, yet Igbo language is thought in Igbo areas, Delta state TV has Igbo news and programmes as well as their radio station. Even the college of education at Agbor has one of the best depts of Igbo language in Nigeria.
I think Ndigbo should look into this areas I have mentioned.

That picture of Jaja is an artistic impression. This is his actual picture:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Jaja_of_Opobo.jpg/336px-Jaja_of_Opobo.jpg

Jaja went to Opobo with Ibani chiefs after all.

Obiagu1:
What is your problem, reading or comprehension? When has Bonny and Opobo ever being Ijaw? What language do they speak? Igbo. Who founded both? Igbo. Who constitute the majority? Igbo.

You once asked me to provide evidence that the FG tried to Ibanize Bonny and the people resisted it and I did that. You simply disappeared.

I beg, move on.

But that's the thing, there other parts of the island like Finima where the ruler is called Asamayibo Henry Buowari-Brown, and most people on the island have Ijaw names. I didn't see the page where you replied the source because of the rapid discussion.

EzeUche22:
War is what unites the Igbo. We seen the greatest unity during our period at war then in anytime in our history! We need something to unite our people.

The Ijaw can be the perfect scapegoat. Their aggression has not gone unnoticed.

You're not listening: Oil is involved which means your war will be financed to last as long as possible!

Onlytruth:
I personally believe that we don't need those lands. They are fine just the way they are with their inhabitants.
My only problem is with people who ally with foreigners to stab Ndigbo in the back claiming we lack sea access.

I will say it again: The Igbo and Ijaw share a political destiny -just like the Hausa and Fulani. I don't know why you are determined to split hairs.

I don't think it is practical, believe me.

It's not splitting hairs. You can't keep waiting for someone who doesn't want to be waited for. The Ijaw have proven that their best interest is their well being (sorry for the generalisation, I mean the 'leadership'), enter a country (supposing Nigeria reverts) and the highest bidder will ensure the Ijaw rip apart the Igbo. The worse situation should be thought of for security. The Igbo and Ijaw have distinct borders but have diplomatic relationships. A federation would be good.

Obiagu1:
Ikot Obasi belonged to Ibibio, but it was an empty land or was bought by Jaja, not sure, but the founder was Igbo, so is it not historical?
Arochukwu was owned by Ibibio as well but were displaced by the Aros thru wars and has been occupied by Igbos ever since before amalgamation and civil war. So is it not historical?

I don’t really get your point, is Kalabari or Okirika Ijaw? They are NOT!
Kalabari and Okirika are two distinct and independent ethnic groups! They are not Ijaw!

Okay, so if those places were once non-Igbo, why should the Ijaw be kicked out of Opobo and Bonny when it is now 'historically' theres. Kalabari, Okrika, the bottom line is that they're Ijaw.

EzeUche22:
Ezeagu,

Excuse my hostility, but my very own hometown was originally inhabited by the Ibibio. But now it is a fully Igbo town. My town was founded through war. This warrior instinct is in my blood. I as an Aro Igbo that has Abam and Ohafia bloodlines running through my veins and Efik/Ibibio through my mother whose hometown is Calabar.

If these minorities want to blockade us, we shall blow them out the water. We are willing to work with minorities, but the minorities need to understand that they do not dictate to us. And we Alaigbo will not be landlocked. A landlocked Igboland is totally out of the question. I will not even wish to hear that nonsense. Anybody who says Alaigbo is landlocked is declaring war on all of Alaigbo.

That is the way I think.

Exactly, your people won your home town through war, the Ijaw people won Opobo through 'displacement'. Fair, no?

Onlytruth:
You see why I posted my points earlier -that minding those borders would be like splitting of hairs bearing in mind the history of Eastern Nigeria.

I am yet to be proven wrong.  

I disagree, I think you can clearly see the border towns. The mixture doesn't make a difference because many European nations are mixed with each other, yet they have strong national identities. If you disagree with me, then you must agree that there is no clear boundary between Ika and Edo lands . . . which there is.

EzeUche22:
Frankly, with the population density in core Igboland, which is making our core regions overpopulated, we are going to for other areas in the East to move to in great numbers. Populations do not stay the same, and population changes occur throughout the years. Let us look at the changing demographics of the United States.

Population stresses within in Alaigbo will create new problems and new opportunities. Soon these lands that are claimed to be "lost" will be part of Alaigbo again and also NEW land.

This is the way of the world, the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. If the minorities have a problem with that, then let them fight and they shall lose and we will claim new land.

If Nigeria was to disintegrate, you think the Igbos will allow us to be landlocked? The answer is no.

You'll just start an unnecessary war and the people already bunkering the oil will make sure the war is lengthy. The lands should be left to those who own them, wasn't it you that said that it does not matter that Opobo was once owned by the Ibibio? What the Igbo need to do is work out something with the Ijaw concerning the Bonny and other rivers, that way you won't get a surprised blockade from Ijaw militants. Igboland still has plenty of land in Ebonyi and Enugu and even the other states. The cities haven't even been well planned, how big is Hong Kong? How big is mountain riddled Taiwan? The land below Igboland it self is small and there are a lot of swamps houses cannot be built on there.

Obiagu1:
They identify with Ijaw, I think you should know why – Ikwerre would have done the same if they have a tiny trace of Ijaw amongst them. The truth is that, unlike Igbos which claim towns that are Igbo speaking and have a clear Igbo majority and were historically Igbo, Ijaws claim any town that has a tiny number of Ijaw mix, have fishing culture and whose language is not Ijaw (to them if 2 or 3 words are Ijaw, then they are Ijaw not minding whether the grammar is Ijaw or not or whether it is in any way mutually intelligible).
Do you know they equally claim Ogoni? I’ve seen it in some Ijaw websites.

So forget about the claims of today, tomorrow might be different.

So is Ikot Abasi historically Igbo? Even Arochukwu?

EzeUche22:
Actually, I do not like to give praise to the white man and the British in particular, but they were experts when it came to administering a population. They learned the history of the people, the language that the people speak and culture in order to control them. This is well documented throughout the entire world.

So what if these towns are seperated from the wider Igbo, they are still our TOWNS! And you think you can tell the numerical superior Igbos who we can claim or not? I am tired of this nonsense, people need to understand that the Igbo make up around 75% of the Eastern population. A CLEAR majority. You think we will be held hostage by minorities?  

People should be happy that the Igbo leadership do not think like me. And they let Aro, Ohafia or other warlike Igbo clans to lead for a change, we Igbos would be in better shape in this country. To think we are held hostage by minorities!  

I understand, but we have to face reality. The old tactics are no longer an option. These towns you call Igbo are partially Igbo because they also contain a high amount of Ijaw and other ethnicities and there are Ijaw villages on Bonny Island. Whatever majority the Igbo had before should have been used to secure some beach, but that obviously wasn't their priority back then.

Obiagu1:
Do you genuinely think that, after all the dust raised and fears put in folks head after the civil war wanes down, Okirika, which has a very high mix of Igbos, and Kalabari with a high mix of Igbos as well will join Ijaw and pull out of Alaigbo?

But Okrika and Kalabari identify with Ijaw. The Kalabari are Igbo through their mothers, and you know that that doesn't count in most of Africa.

Obiagu1:
Do you know the terrain very well? If you do, tell me the towns (Islands) that are north of Bonny and the ethnic group(s) they belong to before you get to PH because I think you’re just making a general statement.

When I say Ijaw I also mean associated groups, like in that map you see Okrika is north of Bonny and on the Bonny River, the Kalabari are also on that bank of the Bonny River. There also seem to be 'Ijaw' villages on the actual island of Bonny. Someone here even noted that the British said the Igbo are separated from the sea by 'petty tribes'.

Obiagu1:
Hahaha, let me use Israel as a case study, though they have access to sea through the Mediterranean, they equally do thru the Red Sea – Suez Canal, which undoubtedly is Egyptian and Egypt can’t close it. So, minus any other channel in River State, River Niger is a sea access so that can’t be closed as well.

Moreover, Kalabari and Okirika have a high mix of Igbos and can’t secede completely from Alaigbo if there were to be one. Some Igbos have been kings in Kalabari too.

By the way, how is it an Ijaw owned river when it is Bonny River?

The Suez Canal is bound under international treaty. The Bonny River can be blocked by rogues and access to the sea will be cut in that case. The Bonny River runs through Ijawland and so those the emptying of the Niger.

EzeUche22:
Stop spreading lies.   Igboland is not landlocked. As the British noticed, there were Igbos that could be found along the coast as well. Are you going to argue with British sociologist who traveled throughout the East to learn the ways of the inhabitants.

Colonialism was not good, but one thing the British did very well was take very good notes! They wanted to understand their colonial subjects, so that they can manage them better.

But the British weren't experts, and this is now, many of those inhabitants have probably assimilated. The fact is Igboland has no direct shoreline and has to go to Bonny and Opobo, partial Igbo regions, through rivers cutting through other peoples land.

RichyBlacK:
A map section from A. E. Kitson's Southern Nigeria: Some Considerations of Its Structure, People, and Natural History (1913).

"Oyigbo" is actually Obigbo after all.

Obiagu1:
Looking at the Nigerian map, though I don’t know the terrain very well, Bonny doesn’t seem far from PH and has sea channel up to PH.
However, many nations are not holistically contiguous like the US and Alaska.

Bonny and Port Harcourt are connected through the Bonny River, an 'Ijaw owned' river, Opobo is unreachable without going through Ogoni or some other non-Igbo lands. The main issue here is access to the sea. Igboland seems to be landlocked.

Okay, say that Bonny and Opobo are Igbo, how will you now connect them to the rest of Igboland when Ogoni Kalabari and Andoni separates them?

[quote author=komando. link=topic=500126.msg6683850#msg6683850 date=1283413488]The Ika greeting is not maba or mamba or whatever you call it. It is vana. I repeat vana. You hear.[/quote]No, actually ChineyeN is right.

Let's leave the Bonny and Opobo inhabitants to decide where they are from. That is what matters after all. To gradually start closing this thread let's leave it at this: Igboland's boundaries end where Igbo communities end, and Igbo communities are those that identify as such. This is fair, I think.

marocguy:
is that wat u think? i dont believe we could have had the problems Zimbabwe had. i think zimbabwe's problem is related to differences b/w their minority white and majority black populations.

The British were already in the process of implementing, and had already established apartheid in several Nigerian cities which included Lagos, Enugu, Jos and Calabar. It was with the help of Nnamdi Azikiwe and the rest that these plans were stopped and the independence movement began. Without independence the European population would have risen further.

[img]http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1234436&t=w[/img]

Obiagu1:
Yeah, the Federal government actually tried to teach Ibani in Bonny encouraging them to drop Igbo, thru NLNG in their usual scheme to propagate the "myth" that Igboland is landlocked, but it failed.

Do you have a news article, source?

Pantsi:
they did leave us way too early. all d people here talking thrash here are just too proud to accept it. i believe they could have left around 1990. simple!

Talking 'thrash'?

Ibime:
erm. . .all over the Niger Delta and in some parts of Yoruba land, names are changed by the white man without stress, and they stay changed. . . you can see even in the English surnames of Ijaw families. . . its like asking why the residents of Eko allowed their name to be changed to Lagos. . . even Onitsha, is it not English for Onicha?

Okay, so let me understand, the Europeans changed the name of "Okoloma" to whatever they liked, but they changed it to something that was native (supposedly 'Ibani')? Do you have a reliable source for this, because I've already provided a book out of many that says the original name of Bonny was Ubani.

[center][img]http://books.google.com/books?id=MmjaAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA26&img=1&pgis=1&dq=Ubani+Bonny&sig=ACfU3U1_4y5D8Ox92IUSAufAhq51jSILiA&edge=0[/img][/center]

Ibime:
You're just engaging in pedantry. Crowther gave the local name of the town and the English name Bonny.

Its quite obvious the English named the town after the tribe who occupy it (Ibani), just like Okrika is still called Okrika today, 300 years after the English named it.

"Pedantry", because I asked you about a massive name change from the supposed "Okoloma" to Bonny? Can you then tell me why Finima isn't still known as 'Juju Town' then. I won't defend or challenge source-less statements:

They were once united in the trading state of New Calabar, which competed with Bonny (Ubani), the other leading Ijo centre, for the control of access to the interior and the heavy dues exacted from European traders.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ngw5AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA208

Read on for the Canoe Houses.

formerly Ibani or Ubani

town and Atlantic oil port situated in Rivers state, southern Nigeria. It lies along the Bonny River (an eastern distributary of the Niger River) 6 miles (10 km) upstream from the Bight of Biafra. A traditional trading centre (fish, salt, palm oil, and palm kernels) of the Ijo people, it was the capital of the 15th- to 19th-century kingdom of Bonny.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/73213/Bonny

If the town had a name, why would the natives allow a completely new name to replace it?

Ibime:
You are typing rubbish here. . . . If Ajayi Crowther wants to carry out census of the place, he will approach the people and ask them what is the name of this place and that place. . . if the people had given him Igbo name, then he will publish accordingly. . . unless you guys want to tell me that Ajayi Crowther is engaging in Civil War revisionism!  


This is as silly as asking why there is no town in Kalabari called Kalabari.

Or no place in Hausa land called Hausa.

Maybe you didn't read properly, Why is and was "Okoloma" called Bonny Town for over 400 years? And if 'Bonny' is the name of the ethnic group inhabiting the island since you're referring to no place called Hausa (a foreign name we can trace), and no place called Kalabari (a name formed out of New Kalabar) what is Ibani and Ubani?

By the way, Bishop Ajayi Crowther, looking at the source, gave multiple names for many of the settlements, including calling "Okolama" Bonny Town.

[size=5pt]3000th!!![/size]

Ibime:
More nonsense. . . Ubani is bastardised Igbo for Ibani. . . .


Bishop Ajayi Crowther's census of 1882:


Name:                            Particulars (English):              Population:

Okoloma                             Bonny Town                            4000
Finima                                 Juju Town                                800
Ayama and Febre               Peterside                                 850
Kalibiama                                                                            500
Abalamabie                        A plantation                              340
Ayamba and Iwoma           Andony villages near mission    300
Isilegono
Egelebie & Bolokiri
Asaramantoro & Nunabie etc, etc, etc
Epelematubo
Oboma and Kuruma
Epelema
Oloma and Ayamina
Orupiri


Crowther, Report on Bonny for 1882, CMS, G3/A3/36



As you can see, all the towns and villages making up Bonny are Ijaw names. . .

Beyond the name of the tribe (Ubani), you have no Igbo names for the places that make up Bonny.

Its like French who have name for Allemagne (Germany), but have no French name for Duisburg, Hamburg etc

The source you got this from gives only the 'Bonny Name' for Bonny and it's "satellite villages".

http://books.google.com/books?id=8drXpCGaT-UC&pg=PA15

Bonny itself is called 'Okoloma' in what is indicated as the 'Bonny' version of the name, this raises questions as to why Okoloma is not the name Ubani is being called and to why Bonny was called 'Bonny' if it isn't a corruption of what the natives identified as Ubani. From this, it can probably be guessed that there are different names for the town and maybe even the villages themselves in various languages.

Still, if these are the names of the towns and villages of Bonny (which I doubt for Ubani being Okoloma), it should still be explained why the actual founder of Ubani is a man called Okpara Ndoli coming from Azumini.

The source for the last post:

http://books.google.com/books?id=UVl6FNYJ1KkC&pg=PA271

Written by this man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Francis_Burton

The hard evidence is leaning towards an Igbo founding of Ubani and Opubo.

This is what happens when a countries education of history stops at 1960.

EzeUche:
ezeagu,

These "canoe people" are NOT native to the East. So who are the original inhabitants of this region. It is not like this area was devoid of human life. So who were there before the Ijaw? Since the Ijaw spread Eastward from the homeland West of the River Niger.

I will resist any attempt to make Alaigbo landlocked? Do you actually believe the Igbo were afraid of the sea as some people would like you to believe?

Wait, I'm trying to balance, I'll open this debate again because I've found something else, the last source may not have ended the debate after all.

[QUOTE]
Origins and Settlement of Bonny People 
The Igbani (Bonny) people were said to have migrated from the Isedanic lineage of Okobba Town in Kolokuma Ibi 1, central Ijaw to their present Okolo-Ama (Bonny) site in 1310 AD under the leadership of Okpara Ndoli whose real name was Asikunuma[?], also called Okpara Asimini[?].  The men who were said to have led the migration were Opu Amakuba, his brother Alabarie and Okpara Asimini[?]. Their intension [spelling mistake makes the source somehow] for the movement was to seek a new peaceful home because of devastating civil wars.  During their journey, some of the families while passing through Azumini Town, had settled in Ndoki villages of Okolo-Ama, Oruama, Osobie[?]. On their arrival to the Delta coast, they first settled at Orupiri, a village about one mile from the present location of Okolo-Ama town where Prince Edimini, great ground-son of Opuamakuba was born. 

Later in their history, Okpara Asimini, who had learnt the secret to the overseas trade from Owerrie Daba of Kalabari, became the first King of Bonny and ruled Bonny for 35 years. He was succeeded by Opu Amakubu. With the discovery of Okolo by a hunter Alagbariye, the people moved to Orupiri (about a mile from Bonny town).  They finally moved to Bonny Town which they named Okoloama
(Jones 1963).

http://www.nlng.com/NR/rdonlyres/8B77DA02-8C84-47B6-AE4F-A4374DC2F116/0/05_Social_Baseline_Study_Ecosphere.pdf
[/QUOTE]

Those are Igbo names, and they discovered Ubani (Grand Boni). Bonny genealogy: http://books.google.com/books?id=pIR-mgBiJ-gC&pg=PA26

Starts with someone called Alagbaria who discovered Bonny with strange creatures, (Ala agbara maybe )

Most of the problem here seems to hover around the ownership of Bonny and the idea of a landlocked Igboland. You people should back your points with sources, read this it is very interesting:

http://books.google.com/books?id=vqpoxEl_0_4C&pg=PA29

The founding father of Bonny is said to be someone called Asimini, this is not an Igbo name. That ends the debate of Bonny ownership, it was originally owned by whatever culture that man came from and was quickly Igboised in order to become successful. Bonny is an indigenous 'Ijaw' territory 'made' by Igbo states.

Here's the thing: Igboland's boundaries stop at communities where the majority stop associating or have never associated with the larger Igbo. How about that?

Andre Uweh:
The bolded was for dispute resolution.

Eehh, no. They did 'settle disputes' but they summoned people and either tricked them into the dedication of a deity or gave them a false judgement from the oracle then sold them into slavery.

Candy9:
and this:

Jisie ike!

thanks

It's an encouragement, like 'well done' and 'try your best' together, it doesn't have a direct English translation, maybe 'keep striving', and the usual answer to this is 'oh!' A direct translation would be roughly 'keep strong'.

This is very strange, I was thinking about making a very similar, in fact the same thread just now. Okay, all I know in Yoruba and Igbo is Ewu and Ewure and Omo and Umu, they're similar but not the same, I'm not sure of Hausa, the only one who can do this would be someone who speaks three of the languages.