₦airaland Forum

gadogado:
Go to malabo (the capital of EG) and compare their level of infrastructural development with Kuala Lampur or Singapore or Bangkok or Jakarta or even "i dare to say" Burma. The difference will be stark clear. When I talk about economic development im referring to "WHATS ON GROUND" not meaningless arithmetic (dividing national GDP by population to get per capita GDP) thats useless, it means nothing, go to EG and the slums you'll see will blow your mind!! Whats on ground?? how diverse and sophisticated are their markets and economy as a whole?? how about their infrastructure?? is it adequate? how about human services like education and health facilities?? what is the general standard of living for its citizens? It has about 700,000 population wise, compare that to countries with small populations like Bahrain and Oman then compare their standards.

ola olabiy:
he doesn't know that per capita income is an outdated means of calculating living standard.

Jokes! Equatorial Guinea is getting there, it's a little behind Indonesia and Malaysia, but here are the facts

Equatorial Guineas death rate is 9.26 deaths/1,000 population (July 2010 est.), Malaysia is 5.02 deaths/1,000 population (July 2010 est.) Indonesia is 6.25 deaths/1,000 population and Nigeria is 16.31 deaths/1,000 population (July 2010 est.)

Equatorial Guineas Life Expectancy is 61.98 years, Malaysia is 73.55 years, Indonesia is 73.55 years

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/

I can't be bothered to bring up old stats, but this information is more shocking when you look at where this country was 10 years ago, countries don't develop in one year. African developing country? Here it is. "What's on ground" will come and is already coming.

gadogado:
Why the harsh tone? you that began supporting my premise, talk about being a flip flopper!! guess you'd make an excellent politician. Let me put it this way, people that live in Africa from the tropic of capricorn all the way to the sahara share the same climate, 2-3 seasons in a year as opposed to full four seasons in Europe etc. If as they say people develop morphological adaptations to enable them cope with their environments then i'd hasten t say that blacks )especially bantus) with features like wide nostrils etc are the same race or family of people (since you dislike the word race)
second point is the linguistic similarity as well as cultural that exist among African groups, like I said, Africans/blacks are the same "race" with a high degree of internal diversity, to claim race doesn't exist is senseless. Even if the Ashanti and Yoruba never came into contact with each other, they would share many more physical, cultural and linguistic similarities to Yorubas than to the French or Italians. FACT.
The similarities are glaring, from Haiti to Zimbabwe to Nigeria to Senagal, you're all very similar and in the exact same situation (INABILITY TO BUILD A STABLE AND PROSPEROUS SOCIETY) These are the facts, any country in the world today that has black dominated government is a poverty stricken downward spiraling state regardless of the continent.

Again, be honest and reply my posts, or maybe it's even smart that you avoid me, just like you dodged your own debate of an African writing system when I crushed your baseless opinions with facts. The Yoruba are different from the Ashanti as they are to the French, why does the space in the differences matter in biology? Where does the similarity between 'races' start and stop? Wouldn't the idea of a similarity "in races" mean the belief in races as species? Again, why are there people indigenous to the Philippines and Malaysia that look like people from Gabon, yet their genetic lineages are as different to each other as they are to a European lineage?

Here again you carefully dodged majority 'black' nations like The Bahamas, Barbados, Equatorial Guinea and Botswana in your source-less and copied claims. Here they are again: Barbados, The Bahamas, Equatorial Guinea, Cape Verde. Face them and explain how they do not make your statements false.

gadogado:
Ok I suppose bronze casting is party scientific but it was done not for practical self help reasons but for religious voodoo worship to pillow his natural inclination to superstition.

This is as pathetic as your claim of Nsibidi being "lame writings." What was the purpose of the Roman Pantheons? What was the purpose of the Roman busts of Zeus and Hermes? What was the purpose of the Parthenon? To serve their gods, no? Superstition, no? And the last part of that sentence sounds funny and copied, no surprise.

gadogado:
(give me an african invention that actually made their condition better)

Ask the thousands of Europeans that died from things Africans weren't while exploring parts of Africa, they'll tell you.

gadogado:
I also see your point, however i think its necessary to make some demarcations and distinctions. The wheel is the mother of ll invention, technology started by developing the concept of the wheel. Now that thats out of the way, if the Inca or Maya didn't have a practical need for the wheel (assuming) then that explains the your supposed argument that they didn't actually use a wheel at any point in history (subject to verification) However, they were able to develop concepts that demonstrated an infusion of science into their thinking and methods, these concepts as well as the actual end result of the concepts (products) did prove to be of practical use for them and did supplement some of the hardships they faced. so here I've established two important points, a) infusion of science into their concepts (clear demonstration of intellectual ability) b) The need and desire to better their condition. These points more than make up for their abomination of not developing a wheel 
The African however has not demonstrated any infusion of science into anything he ever did and he also has not shown a desire and need to better his condition at any point in time (give me an african invention that actually made their condition better) Ok I suppose bronze casting is party scientific but it was done not for practical self help reasons but for religious voodoo worship to pillow his natural inclination to superstition.
I also disagree with you that Africa was entirely a thick green forest, some parts yes but not the whole continent. But when it comes to scientific invention, the whole continent is found wanting irrespective of environmental conditions. This contravenes your argument.

Since you don't like to research things for yourself, you know, like picking up books, I will give you one of the images you like to overlook, again:

Angolan Funeral 1786-87

[center][img]http://hitchcock.itc.virginia.edu/SlaveTrade/collection/medium/LCP-11.JPG[/img][/center]

No wheel before the 19th century? False.

gadogado:
But when it comes to scientific invention, the whole continent is found wanting irrespective of environmental conditions. This contravenes your argument.

Like Ancient Egypt?

Kobojunkie:
Well, fine that you have your personal preference there BUT again, there is no comparing Umuahia with Owerri. Even Uturu sef. If not that Umuhia is the seat of Government, I bet it would have been worse than Aba.

You're WRONG.

gadogado:
@sage Im not in anyway against the "black race" im at least 60% black. So that assertion is senseless. All im asking is what does the evidence suggest about the relative mental development of Africans.
Also, if you believe that theres no such thing as race, then you're living in lala land. Africans present a monolithic group if you compare to other groups. In other words, Africans have more in common with each other than they do with European or Asian groups. You're saying technically theres no such thing as race, but i think there is race but each race has a varying degree of intra racial variance and relative diversity. Saying race doesn't exist is wishful thinking. There are too many similarities in physical, cultural, linguistic aspects that Africans share with each other. So you can't outrightly ignore that. Africans are a monolithic group with a high degree of internal diversity, this diversity does not negate the fact that Africans are one race.

What makes Africans a race if part of their features can be found in Fiji and Papua New Guinea, and could you explain how these people do not have the same ancestral DNA as Africans yet look like Africans? If every human group is separated by race, what happens to groups that are mixed with more than one race? What race are they? Could you also explain how Africans can be a race, if, by your reasoning, the differences in features that separates different groups indicates 'races', so why do the largest differences decide the different 'races' and why do the smaller ones not, if race is biologically proven then every human on earth is their own race because every human is different from the other.

gadogado:
Simple! Europeans fell from glory so in comparison to their initial attainment of enlightenment, they became ignorant, thats comparing the two stages in their history. Africa never had the attainment of enlightenment at no point in time, so nothing to lean a comparison against. Its one thing to rise and fall and in their case rise again unlike the Mongols who only had a rise and fall. But to never ever rise in the history of humanity is something quite different. What has subsaharan Africa ever contributed to the advancement of humanity??

Britons never fell from any glory, they've always been the savage barbarians, no insult, this is what they themselves teach people along with the Germans who were among the first groups to be called barbarians actually. All this "fell from grace" nonsense obviously indicates your one sided view point, a British person will not be offended if you ask what their island(s) were before the Romans. Even after the Romans left, simple lack of washing caused millions of deaths in Europe during the Plagues and Black death of the early parts of the last millennium, at the same time African's were well soaped up in their black soap and palm oil soap, the same palm oil that every good soap now includes.

And by the way, whatever happened to Kemet, Nubia, Axum and Cush in Africa's advancement or "fall from grace", or maybe it doesn't count because these kingdoms were in the east, well here's the thing the whole of the Mediterranean plus Italy doesn't count for the whole of Europe in that case!

gadogado:
WRONG, having a sense of organization is a form of intelligence because organization suggests rationality, i suspect you're looking at organization or the way i used it with a simplistic lens. organized behavior includes being able to plan ahead among many other things

WRONG, Nigeria can't maintain a dam, yet beavers can. Genius artists like Da Vinci were infamous for their numerous uncompleted projects, they didn't plan ahead, or better yet, they didn't see things through, this is more to do with their emotion or priorities than actual intelligence. If someone loots a country blind, it doesn't always mean they are completely stuupid, there are different things that could cause this behaviour like a low self esteem.

One word for this thread now: FAIL!

gadogado:
Nigeria started with malaysia and singapore, where is malaysia today or even indonesia? how about countries like thailand? where were they in 1960, they were at the same level as most African countries in terms of socio-political and economic development, where are they today

So your answer to all this is intelligence? So what "European mixture" do the people of Equatorial Guinea, whose economy has a much higher income than Indonesia and Malaysia, have?

gadogado:
Sure, you can teach an African something and he'll be good at it, you can train an animal in something and it'll be good at it but the question is, was the african able to teach himself? thats the question, coming up with your own stuff that reeks of intellectual ability like inventing a car for example. SO far, on this whole thread, people have been able to come up with bronze casting as peak african invention and they have latched to the glory of egypt. Now bring you bronze cast anyday and share a display table of inventions with a European, I'd assume you'd come out thoroughly embarrassed.

One of the main advantages of being human is a high level of reasoning, you don't display that, so who is the animal? Don't worry what the African is teaching and not teaching themselves, worry about lowering the suicide rates in 'genius' countries, and also getting them happy and contented.

Africa can claim and hang on to Egypt all they like, it IS them, no one else created it but African's, anybody who doesn't like it should strictly read Western books from the 18th century and back. . . . . . (until the 14th century, or else you will be even more depressed. STAY AWAY FROM ANCIENT GREEK LITERATURE! ). Bring on the inventions, come and embarrass, don't threaten.

gadogado:
The point Im making is, collectively as a group, Africans constitute the least intelligent people on the globe. In contrast, Africans are some of the best athletes in the world. There are obviously going to be exceptions to the rule (putting a Nigerian student in a class with Japs and Brits) but this does not in anyway negate the fact that we are naturally disorganized which in my opinion is a component of lack of intelligence. We also lack other components of intelligence such as foresight.

Nigeria started at the same level with Asian countries, as far as economic indicators but because they're more intelligent, they have grown to supersede. Look, the examples of Africas lack of brain power is evident, you see it daily. So why deny it?

Nigeria did not start at the same level as Asian countries, they started like Yugoslavia, where is Yugoslavia today? Most Asian countries were not colonised, and if the were, like Korea, it was from a culture that is similar to them, you cannot tell me after slavery, colonisation and then manipulation, that Nigeria started at the same level, take your one sided reasoning to dedicated websites (there are many).

gadogado:
I was talking about a script actually but either way,

I don't know what this means. What does it mean?  

gadogado:
anybody can draw those lame logos and call it a writing system.

Like the lame hieroglyphs and Chinese characters, right? Laaammmeeee draaawwiiinngggs!

gadogado:
Did Igbos use this "writing system" to record their history, if yes, tell us what the recorded history and/or events say about how they lived 1500 years ago.

I will ignore the massive goal post move for entertainment/'educational' purposes. Well Nsibidi wasn't only used by "Igbos" but neighbouring groups as well, people usually recorded their history orally, apart from that:

Early evidence of nsibidi is found in the decoration of the carved monoliths of Emangabe, near Ikom in the upper Cross River region.

www.lib.umd.edu/drum/bitstream/1903/2416/1/umi-umd-2280.pdf

Ostensibly, the AOAM urgently needs many security men to keep watch over the sites night and day. "We need adequate security at Alok Circle in particular because it is very popular. That is where we have most of the monoliths, which carry almost all the symbols of ‘Nsibidi’ and ‘Ekpe’ as well as many other emblems that our ancestors went to great pains to bequeath to us."

http://www.sudanvisiondaily.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=23405

This is one of the monoliths, some of which Europe stole:

[center]https://www.sunnewsonline.com/images/Bakor-Monolith.gif[/center]

http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/features/travels/2010/aug/05/Travel-08-05-2010-001.htm

Some recorded rituals and practices. Sorry that's 2000 years.

gadogado:
Sure, it means Im driving to the restaurant to go eat with my "table set" and "cocktail glass"

Try being honest and reply my post, and who told you characters, or whole new writing systems can't and haven't been introduced to another existing writing system?

gadogado:
Im seriously laughing @ the ndibisi sign for "table set" and someone was saying its 1500 years old. FRAUD. Besides, this is not a script its merely symbology, show me the alphabets and the sentences, Im waiting!

Clearly you are not here to learn or understand anything. Nsibidi is proto-writing that could be logoraphic, do you know what logographic means? Example, Chinese characters are logographic, and here's the thing, Chinese characters, or as the Japanese who copied them call it, Kanji, are is not an alphabet system. A writing system is the not the same thing as an alphabet, dooo yoooouuu geeettt ittt? Googleing pictures of Nsibidi is USELESS, the released symbols, as a published author says, was an "elaborate joke." Most of the symbols you looked up are these right?

[center]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Nsibidi.gif[/center]

Try picking up an actual book, before you arrogantly declare something that is so ancient as a 'fraud.' It pays to get your facts straight.

As for Nsibidi sentences, I'll hold back because you don't know the difference between an alphabet and a writing system. It's used on everything from secret sign's/warnings to Ekpe wrappers.

[center][img]http://africa.si.edu/exhibits/inscribing/images/eduimages/ukaraLG.jpg[/img][/center]

gadogado:
I agree with you here, they do infact claim greco-roman civilizations. However, thats because of the extensive contact and heavy borrowing from that duo by western Europeans. Actually, the British were largely roman slaves. So there has to be some criteria from claiming a civilization that didnt occur in your ancestral land, there must be a) contact b) similarities (both racial and cultural) c) building upon the initial civilization. You can't claim Egypt if you've built nothing onto the Ancient Egyptian civilization. But the British/west can claim greco-roman because they took their concepts and built on them.

I'll use a little of what I know.

The Igbo believed in the sun of God called Anyanwu. Anyanwu in Igbo means 'The eye of the Sun'

Eye of Horus:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Eye_of_Horus_bw.svg/650px-Eye_of_Horus_bw.svg.png

Horus was the ancient Egyptian sky god who was usually depicted as a falcon. His right eye was associated with [u]the sun Ra.[/b]

Tutsi man

[center][img]http://robertlindsay.files./2009/05/tutsi-2.jpg[/img]

[img]http://mummyswrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Tut+war+crown.jpg[/img][/center]

gadogado:
@ezeuche

These scripts you're coming up with are concepts that came up very recently. I once showed my professor and a liberian girl that bassa script, its complete bull poo. If it came up after colonization or post European contact, then it doesn't count. All of these scripts you're coming up with came post EC so they don't count. Furthermore, they're pretty much rip offs and modifications of arabic, latin et.al

I'm sorry, but the Nsibidi script is at least 1500 years old, and it certainly isn't a rip-off of Latin or Arabic.

As for the reply to Milton Friedman, he was hurling nonsense, well partly, one about Britain not having slavery and he didn't address their slave colonies, and for implying that all the colonies Britain owned cost them. As for no sign of the wheel in Africa before the 19th century:

Angola, 1786-87

[center][img]http://hitchcock.itc.virginia.edu/SlaveTrade/collection/medium/LCP-11.JPG[/img][/center]

Let's not be silly. My opinion is now validated.

ChinenyeN:
[Sub-sahara] Africa (to be specific) without colonialism would have largely remained the same; or at best, advanced, but rather slowly.

So the effects of colonisation like imposed crazy leaders, planned genocides, apartheid (including even Nigeria), and power shifted to particular regions over others would have happened as well. What about society and education, would there be millions of people educated in European languages? Would there be so many African language nearly in danger of extinction? Would there be as much worship of the West as there is now? What about Kingdoms like the Kongo, Asante, Oyo, Benin, Nri, Zulu the Dahomey among others, would they have nothing to answer for Africa's development? Are you also saying that the countries that now exist would exist without colonialism or slavery, what about the man power and population that Africa lost, would the numbers still be the same?

paris10:
@afam,

You guys might be the majority in the US but you're not contributing and giving back anything to the community. You'd rather gather your money (through watever means) and laundered it back to Nigeria. Enough of that men. We know you, and its high time we started getting you guys bursted!

What exactly does that mean?

A lot of nonsense being spit here.

shotster50:
@ Mandingo
Thank you for succinctly summarizing Nigerians, You also forget that the same can be applied to AAs as well.

But you have to deal with your situation first, you can't justify yourself by saying 'they do it too', no?

Andre Uweh:
My point is, immigration is not necessarily responsible for the growth of Onitsha but because of strategic location on the Niger River.

We're saying the same thing then, although there are other towns on the Niger like Aboh and some other small villages. I think apart from it's location, the city also grew because of the immigrants that came from different parts of the larger region, like the Igala, who made the place a major intersection, which the river makes even more perfect. I think I believe the story of Igbo migrants being expelled from Benin city and I believe many of these people were highly skilled, a Benin man cannot be called Eze Chime, I don't buy it. . . . . .

To go back to the issue of Igbo cities, I think with the way Igbo villages are laid out, with many paths filled with what seems like a never ending chain of houses, there really wasn't any need for cities, or maybe this is an excuse for not developing one, I don't know, but the Igbo villages were more like sections of a larger, maybe what you could even call a 'county', a good example is all the villages that make up Orlu, not all these communities were made up of (closely) related families, so they cannot be called a 'clan'.

Andre Uweh:
The urbanisation of Onicha can be attributed to its location on the Niger River. The expansion of Bini empire affected other Igbo communities such as Ogwashi Ukwu, Onicha Olona etc, yet they did not develop to great urban centres.
Also, there were so many market centres all over Igboland such as Nkwo Ntiha, Afor-Ogbe, Eke Elelenwa, Orie-agu, Ekeikpa, Eke Umulogho, Orie-Umuihi, Nkwo-Ihitte, Eke Umuawuchi etc. Yet they did not develop like Aba, Owerri, Umuahia etc.

Those market towns weren't on major trading routes like that of Aba that leads to Ubani, there's a reason the British focused on towns like these when they built the railway. Onicha was created by migrants who settled in one place and many of these people were skilled traders and so on, or at least that's what some are saying.

Andre Uweh:
Agreed, but the coming of whitemen aided the rapid urbanisation of Onitsha (Onicha). As for Nnewi, it is not certain that Nnewi was an urban centre prior to the arrival of the British.

I think I meant more of Awka than Nnewi, Awka seems to have been a busy place in the past, maybe it was more of villages that were very interconnected than actual town or city, the same can be said for a lot of communities of old and even now. As for Onicha I think the British industrialized it more than urbanised it, Onicha doesn't seem to be place that was created out of villages like many of the current Igbo cities are, rather it grew as a town, probably as an affiliate of Idu (Benin Empire).

Other cities like Aba and Owerre were actually large markets before the British took over and the markets were major points in the trading routes of the region. The only two cities created out of almost nothing through British administration is Enugu and Port Harcourt.

madlady:

@Poster, The ONI of IFE, what spectacular carvings.

You're looking at the wrong person, the Ooni of Ife is the second picture, not the third.

[quote author=tpia. link=topic=364657.msg5089224#msg5089224 date=1260489949]very interesting!!

But two of the Cameroounian obas are wearing clothes commonly associated with southwest Nigeria.

One (the Fon of Bandjun) is in traditional (not modern) agbada while the other (king of Bana) is in something that looks like the Yoruba hunter's gear.


The man in the first photo does look like Glele.

The picture labelled Sultan of Sokoto is the previous, not the current one.[/quote]The origin of the 'Agbada' is Islamic, it hasn't always been a traditional African wear. The clothing spread throughout West Africa along with Islamisation, that is why people in Gambia and people in North Western Cameroon wear it.

spikedcylinder:
I'm guessing all these women are Joseph Langafin's wives. Little girl included?

Many of the pictures were put together quickly, it seems. The little girl is not wearing the wives cloth pattern, if she was a wife she would be. Countries around Nigeria aren't all as backwards as Nigeria itself, they have the same development.

davidif:
ARE YOU WHITE OR MIXED OR SOMETHING?? BECAUSE THAT WOULD PROPERLY EXPLAIN WHY YOU FIND IT FUNNY.

Maybe the person doesn't have a giant chip on their shoulder.

asha 80:
Though i hate to say this i think the coming of the whiteman brought about the emergence of towns and cities in igboland.

I think it's all of them except Onicha, and possibly places like Nnewi town.

MandingoII:
Too many nigerians are easily impressed by position, status, money

This is what happens when you grow up poor and want to BE SOMEBODY TO PROVE YOURSELF


you sell your SOUL,

Truth.

paris10:
Just finished doing my research, The Hausa's dominate the political scenery (Abuja as their power seat) but lack world wide acceptance because of the violence associated with them. Majority of the other African states where Hausa is being spoken are Muslim speaking countries. Go to developed world, the first Nigerian or african language recognised by these people is the Yoruba language.

See I really don't care about where anyone of you comes from, just making a point. Even in United States where we have a large number of the Igbo people, Yoruba language is still well spoken and heard. Travel to the Uk, same thing,  Canada, Australia, and most of the well organised countries, except ofcourse countries like Germany, India, China where the Igbos tend to find refuge (I heard its because of their dodgy business.)

No sorry you're talking rubbish as well, and you're relying on hearsay and stereotypes judging by the last sentence in your write up, which discredits everything you wrote. I don't know any other African language that is more recognised than Swahili, Yoruba or any other language doesn't come close to its popularity, so much so that people of different ethnic backgrounds adopt Swahili names like Keisha. Canada recognises both languages, please don't make up facts, all the countries you posted as being dominated by the Yoruba actually recognise the Igbo language, and many of the older generations of those countries recall and can remember the 'Ibos of the Biafran war', and by the way was it Yoruba speakers that the US Army encouraged to join their military? No, it was Igbo speakers, so you're wrong.

paris10:
Wow indeed! Now you know my dear!

WOW²

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=494767.msg6548814#msg6548814 date=1281456933]It's possible, but I'm satisfied with this size.[/quote]I'm not satisfied, I need it Times Square sized.

Treasury looting, national icon's mother killing 'swagger'? Yes.