₦airaland Forum

OZAOEKPE:
"the church is infallible". Quote me anywhere

Ihuomadinihu:
In the nearest future,we are going to have people fight and argue over who first met the White men and shook hands with them. Inferiority complex at its best. That you met the white men and engaged in commerce doesn't mean you own anything. For goodness sake, no ethnic group owns any imported coral beads. They are called trade beads for a reason.

aim5:
Cmon now I think you're being ignorant on purpose. Me, spanishkid and bokohalal have told you repeatedly on this thread that the Benins have Gelegele and Ughoton that gives them access to the sea. Plus it is documented that the Edos were the first to meet the Portuguese first in the late 1400s.

aariwa:
Is she a Nigerian cos a Nigerian girl does not deserve such gesture

fratermathy:
Please Ezeagu dont answer again. Just ignore and let be. Please. The whole world is watching us. Lets just die it for the sake of peace I beg you. I know you are a rational person.

spanishkid:
at least I've got European blood in me but you on the other hand, is nothing but a black flàthead. Here's my gift to you.

spanishkid:
at least I'm racially higher than you flattie.

spanishkid:
see this flàtheaded igbo monkey. May hunger and starvation finish you and your cursed clan the way it did in 1967.

spanishkid:
thunder fire you and your flàtheaded generation. You dey craze. I'll personally pop the most expensive champagne the day your sorry asses leave this country. By the way what do you contribute to the economy of Nigeria besides armed robbery, baby factories, prostitution, drug peddling, fake products etc?

spanishkid:
you even have time to reply insecure igbo losers. How is edo landlocked? Edo has many rivers and access to international waters. Gele Gele and Agenebode have access to international waters. If edo was landlocked how did the Portuguese come to Benin to trade? Common sense is not common amongst igbos. They are cursed. Funny enough no south east state is as rich as edo or even has half of what edo has. Na jealousy dey worry them. Bros I've been to their region and after the north in terms of poverty they're next. A tribe of people who use pawpaw leaf to cook stew. Igbos are a disease. The thief I shot trying to scale my fence earlier this week was igbo. Their women are very cheap. Do you know you can sleep with their women for as low as one plate of peppersoup and one bottle of malt? A very useless tribe indeed. Don't be deceived by what they say here on nairaland. They have nothing. Why do you think they're trying to include south south in their failed biafran dream?

aim5:
They are so delusional. And their women are very overrated and cheap yet Edo women are thought to be #1 in prostitution business. All throughout Nigeria Igbo broads fill up the brothels. Very vain bi.tches. Also most of the Igbo guys who brag about how rich and loaded they are usually get their money in questionable ways too.. A very annoying set of people, especially that thing that calls herself Ihuomadinihu or whatever.

fratermathy:
I've always wondered why Igbos and Yorubas antagonise each other on Nairaland. My little experience on this thread has shown me exactly why!!! Most people can simply not speak without putting on the toga of ethnic brigandry and callousness. I'm an Urhobo and even maternally Igbo yet I have been defending Edo as if it is my language. This is to prove a point to those who rather than make points in as civil a way as possible, would rather flare up over a statement that their culture was influenced by another. No sane person would be annoyed by that. Even English was influenced by French and German! Cultures influence each other. The degree of influence might have been exaggerated but it is present nonetheless. So when people start saying what I wrote is trash, bunkum, rubbish, I get irked up and I am ready to stand my ground all year long. I didn't even say Urhobo influenced Igbo but Edo! For God's sake, who doesn't know that the old Edo empire had overarching influence in the whole of Southern Nigeria? Who doesn't know that the Obas controlled and monopolised trade, slavery, military technology and a whole lot of other things? Who doesn't know that most tribes even claim Benin descent so as to be perceived as being royal? Who doesn't know that Urhobos, Isokos, Okpes, Ndokwas, Ikas and some parts of other Igboid groups were directly or indirectly influenced by the Benins in culture, royalty, fashion, monarchy, etc? Even the Ooni of Ife acknowledged the role played by Ekaladerhan in shaping Ife's monarchy! They called me a supremacist for stating the truth when I have even nothing to gain from the saga! I like objective research and that is why all this is occurring. Subjective perceptions of issues are being echoed because of misinterpretation of intent and message! Igbos didn't copy as some people have misconstrued me as saying, rather they were in a way or another influenced by the widespread cultural Renaissance established by the campaigns of the old Edo kingdom and especially at the time of Oba Ewuare the Great who conquered Eko. This Renaissance is akin to that of England in the 15-16th century when Italian classicism and intellectualism swept across England like wildfire, when schools were built to learn Rhetoric, monasteries were destroyed by King Henry VIII of the Tudor Dynasty. Even dressing such as those worn by noblemen like Francis Bacon, Edmund Spenser, etc became more flamboyant and different! What of the early 20th Century or the Modern period? England had overarching influence on other cultures! English dressing such as the use of suits became a standard official clothing! English became a language of business and diplomacy. What about the present? The American culture has become the norm. Our traditional values are being eroded slowly by American norms. We have homosexuality, feminism, democracy and so many cultural and fashion-based changes due to America's cultural hegemony on Africa. Are we going to deny that too in the name of Tribalism? Even my native Urhobo is waning. Younger generations no longer speak the language. They'd rather speak English, another man's language. Our cultural wears are giving way for Suits, Jeans, and other foreign wears. We all go to Church and have neglected Igbe, Ovughere, Udje and other cultural religions. Cultural hegemony is unavoidable. If the Igbos were never influenced by any culture at all, they'd still look like this:
[img]http://igbophilia.files./2015/02/engaged-igbo-ancient.jpg?w=604&h=411[/img]

So there is no tribal war here! Just people who dont want to accept that their culture has influenced and have been influenced by surrounding cultural groups! I find that insultive to intellectual reasoning.

fratermathy:
This too doesnt explain what I wrote earlier. All you are doing is to prove that Igbos made their own beads. Okay. Did they also invent kingship?

fratermathy:
Monopoly of trade doesn't mean other tribes couldn't get it. They could.. just not directly from the Portuguese. Or do I still need to spell that ?

fratermathy:
Doesn't explain Venetian and Egyptian importation. If they could cast theirs, then why import?

In any case, the issue of beads have been settled. The beads worn by royalty are not the same worn by the common man. Where they come from makes the difference. It was fashionable to get Portugues beads then which were majorly sold by Benin people who bought from Portuguese.

fratermathy:
Importing Venetian and Egyptian Beads in the 15th-18th centuries.!

I give you hands for your ethnic brigandry. It is an archetype.

fratermathy:
Although you make sensible and provable statements. You and I know that these beads are not the same with that worn by Edo royalty.

fratermathy:
So now you point is that Igbos produced beads right?

Maybe you dont know that the first bead import to the shores of Nigeria was at the behest of a Benin Oba.

fratermathy:
"Rubbish".


Igbos being technocratic and handy has no bearing in Edo's cultural hegemony. You keep bringing up points to prove my initial premise. The fact that Igbos were "borrowed" by the Edos to do their beads and artifacts even give more credence to the idea that there Masons, carpenters and craftsmen took home what they have learned about Edo culture. This is a hypothesis. I'd write a scholarly article on this theory. Thanks for the pointers. This argument has been purposeful so far even though it was started on a faulty counter-premise.

PreciousBro:
lol must we borrow it,cant we own it as a result of primordially existing within us from time immemorial ?

PreciousBro:
These four igbo towns you mentioned are situated in the western and northern axis of igboland,a point i have tried to sync into ezeagu's grasp as testament to the strength of whatever influence or borrowed stuff you all are talking about.it has zero impact on the southern igbos. ooh well
...i don taya jare

fratermathy:
I am paternally Urhobo and Maternally Igbo!

Igbo Kingship is similar to that of Edo from many angles:
1. Hereditary factor which is common place in some Igbo monarchical system. i.e. Onitsha, Agbor, Asaba, etc
2. The Royal Dressing which is usually monochronic and regaled with beads on hands, legs and neck.
3. The use of traditional offices such as that of the prime minister, chief king maker, etc etc
4. The reverence ascribed to the monarch. In Igboland, the Igwe/Eze is adorned by the people. This goes contrary to the Republican theory you proffered.
5. The use of royal insignia, monikers and totems. In classic Nri times, these were not present as there were no use of time. What obtained were titles that pertained to strength, wealth, vitality, etc. Monikers, totemic symbols and allied features of Edo monarchy filtered their way into Igbo land over time.

Ihuomadinihu:
Borrowed what?

fratermathy:
Igbos are not republican in traditional systems of leadership! Granted, they may be a few exceptions but do not generalise! Watch Igbo movies, read Igbo novels, visit Igboland, hereditary kingship is a norm! The "Igwe" factor is enmeshed in the people's psyche so I wonder where your statement comes from. Secondly, a bad research report would be tackled by sane people in the right manner! If it is bad, fish out the issue and counter the data with yours! I am very careful when choosing words, you should learn from that.

PreciousBro:
Well ,this will be the first time i am hearing ofsuch. I am very sure this tale doesnt in any way include the Aro-community in Imo state, like Orkigwe-Orlu-Nkwerre-Ideato axis as we all know the migration and era of the Aro confederacy predates the edo history and hegemony on igbos.

BABANGBALI:
Any man wey toast/marry dis man try,her toto go don stiff like elephant skin

Ihuomadinihu:
They were imported o! Chicken is also imported via Lagos wharf, it doesn't mean that Lagos own the imported chickens.

tonychristopher:
.and in your geography you think it's only the Benin that deal with Mediterranean and beside that Benin isn't a littoral state and it is landlocked


I am thinking of Igbo speaking opobo or even ijaw ...Benin was never known as merchants or sea fearing people


Now find another gist

PreciousBro:
would you also say the same of the igbos in the western and northern axis without the Nri parahenalia in their regalia ?

i know you have a point though, its just that i find that your statement rather hasty and almost fallacious given the fact that the igbos in the southern axis could share similarities with other ethnic groups they co exist with side by side, and hasty in the sense thatyou jumped the whole western and northern axis(places more similar in their prerogatives and royal rights with the edo/benin groups) to the southern igbos.....

That they have almost same emblems in their beads doesnt warrant such conclusive and seemingly farce statement.

scholes0:
Many african groups beads though, but they were mostly made of glass ceramic or stone.
Do you know the origin of coral beads?

fr3do:
No. 1 is Ika dressing, also adopted by Esans.
And Igbo is too big and historic to be modelling things after tiny edo.
Coral beads are also owned by Igbos, only that we don't overuse it.

PreciousBro:
Please i would like you to shed more light on that statement as from what i understand, if at all the benin/edo has any hegemony/influence over and on igbos,it will be igbos from the western and northern axis of igboland (Asaba,Anambra,Enugu) evidently by their proximity hence their similarity. igbos from the southern axis which is constituents of Imo,Abia and maybe Rivers,are mostly Aro' influenced .

fratermathy:
You've indirectly proven my statement by saying "Akin is different from copying". I am a scholar in History and have made far and wide research on Nri Kingdom, Nsibidi, Igodomigo, the Ogisos, and general Igboid cultures. There is no Igbo land now without a form or another of Monarchy. Theocracy, Gerontocracy and Plutocracy have since been replaced by Monarchy. One of the reasons for this is colonisation and its system of indirect rule and the second is the overarching influence of the Benin kingdom indirectly. In trying to start most monarchies as mandated by colonial powers, many Igboid ethnic groups modelled their systems after that which was closest to them. All were proto-edoid in nature.