₦airaland Forum

NativeBoy:
My feelings aren't hurt. Anyone who cannot bear harsh words isn't fit for argument on forums. It is about respect though and being able to submit your arguments coherently for consideration.

You misunderstood me. I asked to text backing up your points excepting the point you made about Africa being the cradle of civilization. That I'm well versed with.

As I said I will start looking at the resources. It doesn't threaten me or my faith and as I am able to surmise from what little I've read, Ifa still fails to deal with the critical issues.

Sleep well.

morning bro. Was reading your post and laughing. Lol. Even your bible permit me to use harsh words. The way you handle dove is different from goat.

I wont say much about Ifa cuz I am not a practitioner yet. I have argued with babalawo and lamented about some confusion to him. It fact that they are making this knowledge fully presented to initiated ones. If you want to know everything about Ifa, it doesn't end in what you, what you taught or what you heard. You need to visit IGBODU and see it manifesting for you. Every Orisa will manifest before you and you will understand those forces. That is power of Africa. Can you tell Jesus to manifest before you? Ifa can do that.

Ifa you are yoruba, take your time and challenge babalawo to reveal secrets hidden in your mind to you. You know what I did? I hide cowries and ask him to find it with Ifa. Do any trick you wish....Ifa will reveal it even before you do it. Lol there is power in Africa......you leave it, the world use it against ya. Ask chinese about Iching.

NativeBoy: Since I have agreed to look at the texts you supplied. I would like to implore you, if you really are someone seeking truth, to open your heart to God. Without pretense, arrogance, self-righteousness, or stubbornness. Reach out with all sincerity of heart. That is my challenge to you.

I did that before you speak about it. Check here https://www.nairaland.com/1500875/conditions-make-me-reconvert-christianity

And if I should ask, which God do you want me to seek?

NativeBoy: Thanks for the resources. I'll definitely look into them. One thing about me is that I love to learn and that's why I don't need to devolve conversations into name-calling as you do. Truth will stand for itself. I suspect though that the way you have chosen to present this "knowledge" indicates that it is bunk but I will go along for now and read the texts you have provided.

In any case, to answer your question, Ori, as you said is an individual's essence. It's like their life force. It isn't unique to Yoruba tradition, other eastern cultures have similar concepts. You don't need to work do hard to try to prove what you know. I'll readily admit I'm not an expert in all things Ifa but now that you give provided some source text, we can check its merits.

You mock those who ask you to provide texts so how did you get your information? If it wasn't through written text, how would you know what to recommend to me?

Lol. You have spoken the truth but I will disagree with some of your points here.

I dont think I call you name personally because the way you present your points from start on this thread shows that you have open mind and willing to learn. Though you holding on your 'defence and weakness attack' but I forced my way in without insulting you.

If it because of what I said against Mr President you pointing at, I am saying I aint sorry about every bash I bath him with. This is stick and carrot game so I think stick is the best for his like. He is insulting my ancestors by patching my history to Judah. He cant even prove is point than pointing to one useless book. You can insult me but I will take it as words; nevertheless, you cant insult my ancestors without striking you. So I think I gave him the best thing.

And the knowledge I present is bunk? Lol. After shredding your forces in bible, you didn't give me credits o. Lol. You are free to call the knowledge anything. Having it isn't final, understanding it is what you need.

Ori is not life force. Emi is the life force. You know we have Emi, Ara and Ori? Ori is more like soul. Philosophically, it your 'me-ness' or consciousness. You have not answered my questions but I wont hesistate to bother you much. I will take your points as the way you understand it.

Adding, I love those having open mind. I really like to hang around people that want to learn. Let me reveal one secret to you......i registered on this site and didn't post here for two and half years. Why? I am reading and liking people's post. I can remember those days I cant sleep without reading logicboy post. Though I dont agree with everything he and other post but we still learn. I am not claiming I am the best or know all.......I am a seeker of enlightenment. And according to Ifa, we learn till death and continue in afterworld cuz Ifa is infinite. So I encourage you to continue learning.

And finally, I dont mock those who ask for books. You were contradicting yourself in your post. You were asking for a book and also saying you dont need a book. I was just kidding around with ya. I am sorry if I offended you on this.

Note this, when something is Infinite, books cant say everything about it. Though I am not discouraging you to stop reading, I am tasking you to observe and experience. If it about reading, I would have become babalawo but bro, it dont work that way.

I think with yeah, the OP and discuss you had with me on this thread as expose some reality to you. The option is yours to journey through it. The dark path has been lighten, it is up to you to walk through it. Nobody is threatening you with hell if you resist. But come to think of it......what is the essence of a person who doesn't know about himself or his history? Is it reasonable for a person to ignore is clothen for rags outside? If our father house fall on one side, it is our duty to rebuild it and not destroying it totally. Africa son....a word is enough for the wise. Goodnight

About Osayin.....the best I can say if truely you Yoruba is to consult priest that have it for observation for yourself.

There is this text titled MAGIC AND SCIENCE IN YORUBALAND.... You can download it here http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.unilorin.edu.ng/publications/abioje/8%2520MAGIC%2520AND%2520SCIENCE%2520IN%2520YORUBALAND.doc&sa=U&ei=vxx8UtaZJMa60QWzuYAw&ved=0CCwQFjAFOAo&sig2=DeSLSW0lhzIiMmNhRpz6Nw&usg=AFQjCNH5ZdHCBnrA8wVh2tPCBTgvkkJzjQ . It explain everything.

Have a nice time bro

NativeBoy: Can you please provide some text not written by yourself?

Adding on the electricity in spranging out African civilization

History of Electricity

Long before any knowledge of electricity existed people were aware of shocks from electric fish. Ancient Egyptian texts dating from 2750 BC referred to these fish as the "Thunderer of the Nile", and described them as the "protectors" of all other fish.
Several ancient writers, such as Pliny the Elder and Scribonius Largus, attested to the numbing effect of electric shocks delivered by catfish and torpedo rays, and knew that such shocks could travel along conducting objects. [ 3 ] Patients suffering from ailments such as goutor headache were directed to touch electric fish in the hope that the powerful jolt might cure them.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity

Do you know what Ifa says about Eja Ojiji and Sango? Lol.... If you want to understand Electric charges, how it operates through thunder and lightening, it is fully explained in Odu Okanran meji which gave birth to Sango.

Odu Okanran meji was brought down from Orunmila thousands of years ago because modern electricity. Only those that can reactivate their consciousness can understand this. And if you are looking for a book about this Odu, get 'Oju Odu merindinlogun' and do comparism between it message and theory of electricity, flow of charges and thunder.

Mr if you truely Yoruba, you know one you got lot to know. I am not claiming to know all but I am willing to learn more. If you want knowledge, acquire it with your five senses and not what some gullible minds put down. Cheers man

NativeBoy: Can you please provide text written by someone other than yourself?

Na wa o. So you are not different from Mr President that cant reason out of a book. This is the problem religious bigot are having. You think because something is written in a book mean it is truth huh? Lol so because I wrote it means you cant accept it. Are you waiting for foreigner to write it or what? Where is common sense here pls? Obviously it is a plain fact that if you want to hide something from black man, keep it in a book. I will provide list of some books.

'Africa un-slaved Volume II: The Free Africa Project' by Akin Adeseye. The link is http://www.google.com/url?q=http://freeafricaproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/AFRICA-UN-SLAVED-Volume-II-The-Free-Africa-Project1.pdf&sa=U&ei=FA98UuK9GOqW0AXug4HwCw&ved=0CCoQFjAH&sig2=lOm-ZUI_4xP-zeHG2KRGRA&usg=AFQjCNEX3WZvYSTJ68tYL6FSSFID-3nq6g . This is free so download and read.

Wande Abimbola, Ifa Will Mend Our Broken World (Aim Books, Boston, 1997). You can buy this in bookshops.

There is also a lecture taking by Prof Odeyemi about Ifa and computer. Here is the link https://www.facebook.com/notes/teekay-akin/what-is-ifa-a-lecture-by-prof-odeyemi/485508524819777?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C7423938486 read it cuz it free.

And where do you keep your common sense? If you know the principal Odu Ifa is 16 and it display in binary format. What is computer and digital format?
Divination involve group of sixteen Ikin, commonly known as sacred palm nuts, which are used to create binary data.........
Microprocessor Assembly Code is written in Hexadecimal (base 16) so what the difference?



Like I told a friend, though I read but I prefer deciphering experience and reasoning along. A lot of people can write anything.....that is there mind on paper. Go out there and get knowledge for yourself.

Pls explain the concept of Ori and how it came about. Stop dodging my challenge. Also prove me my analysing of WORLD is wrong. This running around bush cant be accepted.

If truely there is a God, I dont think we need to believe in him. What is the essence of believing when you already know something?

Believe relatively mean uncertainty while faith mean believing without any iota of evidence.


If you know there is a sun either through sighting or feeling heat or not hearing the sound of night cricket, there is no need for believing it there because you already know this.

As for me, I dont believe there is a God which is hungry for our worship and thirsty for our belief which live in the sky. I know we are all one infinite mind.

NativeBoy: Aww man come on, now you're not being sincere. The meaning of "world" is clear as day. You're attempting to use linguistic hocus-pocus to shroud clear meaning.

lol. The Truth is scary and kinda hard to swallow. You can take what you want but the truth stand unless you prove me wrong. World does not necessarily mean whole earth. So if I say your world is paradise mean there is a special earth for ya? There are three evidence there, refute it man.

In any case, I am intrigued by done the statements you made. Can you please provide some texts that I can read that show that electricity has African origins, binary code is embedded in Ifa, Osanyi is a 6th generation computer, etc. I am as Afro-centric as the next guy but I don't engage in revisionism. I know civilization sprang out from Africa so I don't need any text on that part.

You need text and dont need text. What are you smoking?

Read about Electricity discovery on Wikipedia...... It started from Egypt and it premises.

About Ifa binary code.....get more informations here https://www.nairaland.com/1477407/ifa-ifa-practice-it-religion#18807997

Yes, I am Yoruba so i understand the concept on ori.

If you understand the concept of Ori, why dont you understand spiritual case of Ori and ese? You no not what you saying.

Can you explain how Ori came about if you know what you saying?

Mr President: http://www.rof-worldwide.com/origin.html

Read!

Bloody ignoramuses!

Isn't this what you are trying to show us from the site you provided?

The original name of the fraternity was EGBE "OGBONI ONIGBAGBO " which means in English language "OGBONI FRATERNITY OF THE CHRISTIANS".

If you meant the above, then we can all have it that you are the dumbest person on earth. Let me educate you. Do you know what santeria is? That was the aim of Rev. Ogunbiyi; that is displaying Orisa practises more like christianity. As in bringing the two together. But do you bother to read the whole context on the link page?

The overall control of the fraternity is vested in the Olori Oluwo who is the HEAD of the ROF. He presides over all the meetings of the Supreme, Executiveand General Councils. The Olori Apena who is next in rank is the custodian of the rites, usages, and custom of the order.
The Supreme Council is the competent authority of the fraternity and its governing body. It is composed of the Olori Oluwo, Olori Apena, all the trustees, and those in charge of the region.
The Executive Council is composed of all the Alakoso of the division, the Oluwo. The Apena and Lisa of the premier conclave Ile-Nla and any such member or members of the fraternity not below the rank of Lisa as the Olori Oluwo and the supreme council may deem fit.

The bold include Olori Oluwo, Olori Apena and Lisa. Also from the link we still have Iya Abiye.... Are these was you called christian cult? Do you know the meaning of Oluwo or Apena? They are confirm Aborisa and held the major shrine in town. They are engage in rituals for the town or community. They are also powerful than the kings cuz they can open calabash at anytime for him. Are these christians? Lol.

And do you think Ogboni started really from Rev. Ogunbiyi? Guy you must be joking. Lol. Ogboni had been from generations among the Yoruba communities. What Rev. Ogunbiyi did was reformation of the cult.

So the Orisa they call 'Iya' in the cult is Jesus huh? How about the rituals before it is christian doctrine huh? The consulting of Oracles before doing anything is bible huh? Guy you are very very very foolish and completely brainwashed. Do you even know whom you are?

I task you to go back to your parents to tell you your history. Displaying foolishness and stupidity is a bad reputation for your parents. You are typical Omo ale Odua.

We know you are lost completely...... Being a slave in this age is unacceptable not to mention being suppressing self, birthright and identity into slavery is stupidity of highest order.

@ NativeBoy

I need to know if you are a yoruba cuz I can best explain sin according to yoruba spirituality....so you might not understand me if you aint yoruba. Also, dont get me wrong cuz you might take this as tribalistic or hideous game......most yoruba words do not have direct english vocabulary.

Every individual have their Ori.
What ever you do affect your Ori either positively or negatively.

So I think if you know what Ori is as Yoruba, you will bring in the law of cause and effect. I think thats what pagan9ja called karma.

Lets reason about your questions......what happened to catholic priest after molesting a young boy? What has happened to those christians going against social moral code?

There is social and natural law that deal with sinners and there are also spiritual laws that balance the Ori.

For better understanding, the closest english vocabulary that best explain Ori is consciousness or 'me-ness'.


Yeah you were saying foreigners brought electricity, internet and others. Do you know civilization sprang out of Africa? Do you know the technology that gave birth to electricity was first develop in Africa? Do you know the coding of computer machine is base on binary codes and this is embedded in Ifa? This is what we are saying charging Africans to know themselves and their ancestral heritage. I have told atheist on this forum about the ancient technological developments in Africa before the other world developed it. Ifa is complex 5th generation computer while Osanyin is the 6th generation computer. I challenge you to provide any machine with artificial intelligence and I will provide you Osanyin built thousands of years ago by African.....yoruba specifically.

You were also asking why are we using electricity. Note, development of electricity started from Africa, why wont I use it when I paid for it? If I have problem with their products, since I have the materials and intelligence, why cant I rebrand and develop it? Japan are building their machine on their patterns. It takes only African to rebrand what they got. Our medicine, politics and social structures do not have comparability in other world.....so the question is why do we ignore what belong to us without improvement for what others own?


And lastly, if you want to deal with folykaze, dont bring bible to his face cuz he will shred it totally. Is it the word WORLD in john 3:16 that is giving you headache? Let me break it down.

1. According to http://i.word.com/idictionary/world, World is defined as 7 a: a division or generation of the inhabitants of the earth distinguished by living together at the same place or at the same time <the medieval world>
b: a distinctive class of persons or their sphere of interest or activity <the academic world> <the digital world>. Here you should understand the term World does not necessarily mean the whole earth.... I will accept your whole earth definition if you can provide another verse that back your points.

So from dictionary, it stated that World could mean distinctive part or group of people. So my point is from dictionary meaning, World in the john 3:16 could mean Jew/Israelites.

2. Another evidence to prove that 'World' mean group of people or race or tribe is found in the bible.

Isaiah 45:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

^^^From the above verse, can you say world mean whole Earth in that context? It is glaring that World in that context mean Israelites or Jew.

3. The word translated "world" in John 3:16 is the Greek word "kosmos." The word never means "every individual of mankind who ever lived." In fact, the word has at least seven different meanings in the scripture, depending on the context in which it's used. It can mean Gentiles (as opposed to Jews); it can mean the world of believers; it can mean the world of unbelievers; it can mean the physical creation; etc. So who the points are directed at can be define by Jesus and God which are found in Matthew 24:15 and Deut 6:7 respectively.

From the three points above, it is concluded that john 3:16 was directed to the world of Jew and not the entire earth. You can prove me wrong.


And the John 15:22 you quoted mentioned 'them'.....who are 'them'? They are the Jews/Israelites according to John 4:22 and Matthew 10:5-6. I dont see how 'them' apply to and you. And Israelites aint a person but group of people so 'them' is the best word to use which doesn't apply to you.

From the whole points, you have shown you read world out of context without serious and critical examinations. Jesus or bible God isn't for you. World technology and civilization sprang out of Africa.

What you display conclusively is inferiority mentality, brainwashing and ignorance. Hold unto what belong to ya buddy.

plaetton: Yawheh said to Moses that in olden times he was known as El-Shadai.

El- Shadai translates to The Great Mountain God, or God Of The Mountain.

So, you are factually correct.

I had to confirm your statement and here is what I got from wikipedia.

El Shaddai
Another theory is that Shaddai is a derivation of a Semitic stem that appears in the Akkadian shadû ("mountain" and shaddā`û or shaddû`a ("mountain-dweller", one of the names of Amurru.

El mean God.
Shaddai mean mountain, destroyer and power.

This case is very simple, Obatala is the God of white clothes and also represent light and consciousness. Rocks in the ancient time were used as weapon and tool for killing animal, fighting enemy and destroying materials. Rocks also are hard and strong substances. Which mean Shaddai being strong and destroyer is a representation embedded in rocks, hills and mountains.

This is sharpest indication Yahweh is the god of mountains, hills, and rocks. Hmmmm

It has been the culture of christians to quickly attack pagans/spiritual person as 'worshipper of Idol or god.' Also the christians are quick with putting a case (G) when spelling their god but are quick using the lower case for pagan deities. Is this kinda ignorance or brainwashing against reality? This is a call to show you christians from the bible you trusted that you worship Idol, specifically the god of the hills.

1 Kings 20:23
King James Bible "Authorized Version"

And the servants of the king of Syria said unto him, Their gods are gods of the hills; therefore they were stronger than we; but let us fight against them in the plain, and surely we shall be stronger than they.

Jewish Publication Society Bible Version put it as :

And the servants of the king of Aram said unto him: 'Their God is a God of the hills; therefore they were stronger than we; but let us fight against them in the plain, and surely we shall be stronger than they.

American Standard Version (1901) put it as :

And the servants of the king of Syria said unto him, Their god is a god of the hills; therefore they were stronger than we: but let us fight against them in the plain, and surely we shall be stronger than they.

^^^^ the above verse is the statement from servants of the king of Syria called Benhadad informing the syrian militia on positioning of attack against Israel. He was informing them victory can only be achieved if they attack on plains or valley as Israel God is of the hills. However, different bible versions put God to be gods/god/God as contained in the bold part.

Is it that some translations are lying or wrong spelling God as god or gods; or the other translations are hiding the fact? Whether god/God since the message is truth, the verse is pointing to Jehovah aka Yahweh so definately Yahweh/Jehovah is also a god.

And it is glaring that bible translators are trying to hide some things while unfortunately, the red bold is exposing their hideous game that is God/god/gods of the hill. Since christians can call Amadioha; god of thunder and Ogun; god of Iron.....what is difference between them and Yahweh; the god of hills?


EVIDENCE THAT YAHWEH IS THE GOD OF HILL

Evidence 1 : Reading from Judge 1:19
And the LORD was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the hill-country; for he could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

^^^^the bold reveal that the servant of the syrian king was saying the truth. Yahweh was powerful to drive enemies of his people on the hills (hill country) but could not defeat the soldiers on the plain valley. This is very simple......Ogun is not winning a war for you without iron, Amahodia cant fight against your enemy when lightening is not involve. What then is the difference between Gods and Yahweh if Yahweh cant defeat enemines on the valley?

Evidence 2 : Pagans are called Idol worshippers because they reach and represent their spirit or Gods with natural substances like river, wind, or animals. So when they want to pray to their Gods, they communicate by getting close to what represent those Gods and pray to it.

- Moses went to the mountain for meeting Yahweh Exodus 24:15, Exodus 19:3

- Isaiah ordering Israelites to go to the mountain purposely for meeting Yahweh Isaiah 2:1-5

- Yahweh manifesting before Ezekiel on mountain Ezekiel 11:23

- Jesus went to the mountain Matthew 14:23, Luke 6:12

- the church of christ built on rocks

- christians praying and hosting crusade on mountains.

^^^^ The above shows christians and their prophets climb mountains, hill and rocks before reaching Yahweh. Just like Olokun shrine in the sea, the church of christ, do praying and crusading is on rock, mountains and hill. Just like Ogun worshipper reach spirit of Ogun through Iron, all the prophets in the bible reach Yahweh through mountains.

Christians should realise that they are also guilty of calling pagans Idol worshipper cuz Yahweh is a god and idol of the hills, mountains and rocks. The pot should stop calling kettle black......all ya are Idol worshippers.

Uncle pls tell us a storrrrrrrrrrry

Mr President: pa·gan·ism
noun \ˈpā-gə-ˌni-zəm\

: the state of being pagan

: a religion that has many gods or goddesses, considers the earth holy, and does not have a central authority

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paganism.

The custodians of Yoruba history, culture and traditions say they do not admit idolaters (pagans), what then is the original religion or original concept of deity believed on by the Yoruba? Answer this question and stop trying to be intelligent.

I have answered you and Folake on this thread for the sake of the ones who will review it later. Both of you are wicked souls and accordingly have been blinded.

I commend you to your ignorance and foolishness.

who is folake?

So you dont know your ancestors were aborisa? 401 orisa is monotheism huh? You are really foolish.

And you were saying one foolish man wrote a book before my grandfather. I know where my grandfather was buried, I know the year he died and can tell you if you are lying or not.

You cant tell us yoruba history without telling us your own history. You are a big shame to your ancestors. Your mother should have abort you back then now you are selling her identity for bogus you were feed with.

Mr President: Answer my question you bloody buffoon, what is the original religion of the Yoruba if the traditional custodians of her history expressly forbid idolatry?

Aborisa. Do you know the meaning? Chai this guy is foolish.

Tell us your ancestral history omoale ti o niran.

Mr President: Samuel Johnson was a Yoruba man. Open your head to knowledge and stop multiplying words that emphasize your ignorance

He wrote that book before your grandfather was born.


The question you boys should ask yourself is this, if the Ogboni expressly state that they admit members of all religions as long as they are not idolatrous, what then is the original religion of the Yorubas?

And for your information boys, Ifa is not indigenous to the Yoruba, Oduduwa was taught Ifa by Setilu (Agboniregun) when he arrived Ile-ife.

Ignoramuses!

So you cant trace your lineage. You are a BASTARD. Go and ask where your mami got you from.

Ifa is from Orunmila not Oduduwa. Foolish slave.

Mr President: FOLYKAZE, PAGAN 9JA, and Macof, you boys multiply words absent knowledge and intelligence.
The book 'History of the Yorubas' was written before any of you's grandfather was born.

Unfortunately for you boys, the secrets have not been given to you and will not be given to you because you are insincere. You are wicked beings and you will be duly recompensed when it is time.

@FOLYKAZE, hear yourself
'Writing this was a motivation from the biography of rev. Ogunbiyi who founded Reform Ogboni frat. He was a christian, he lead churches and was highly respect. Despite, he didn't ignore Asebaye. They still worship Orisa in Ogboni today and I am proud I saw some pastors there too'.

Shouldnt it rouse your curiosity that rather than abandon christianity for 'traditional African beliefs' Rev. Ogunbiyi still persisted in it? Why did did the Rev. gentleman not renounce christianity for total 'traditional African beliefs' when he became 'enlightened' as you have?

Orisa worship is not isembaiye. When the ROF was founded, it was only opened to christians but 'As time went on the founder considered it necessary to admit non-Christians, provided such entrants embrace a non-idolatrous believe in God'. Why the emphasis on non-idolatrous belief in God, why is it the major criteria, Have you ever wondered why?

You were asked to provide us your lineage or you get lost. How can someone who cant trace his history back to tenth generation talk about yoruba history? Lost goat. We know your brain is in a book....provide what you asked and not silly rants

Logicboy03: Been away from my laptop

And the sheep wandered in the wilderness. No more service or something. Dont ignore the temple or the goats turn it to their living room.

PAGAN 9JA:
You are a sensible poster. therefore I shall reply to you appropriately.

sin and morality is subject to custom and your social culture, not Spirituality (Religion).

Howevver the concept of Karma is an old one and your reap what you sow. In our Trad. Beliefs, if you do wrong and contribute negative energies, you receive them back in return. There is no escape, no forgiveness , nothing.

the only way is for you to contribute more positive work in order to lessen the negative energy.

Most of the moral stuff written in the bible was already known before its conception. Its allright to use the bible as a book of morality (wherever appicable), but as a book of Spirituality, this is wrong. THere is hardly anything spiritual about the bible. For that, You need to look towards the Religion of your ancestors.

Morality can be learned by your elders, parents, school, etc.

As for your points:

1) Middle-Easterns/Semites. still a foreign group.
However the bible in its present form was thoroughly edited and brought to us by the whites. The whites completely adopted it to their requirements and imposed it on us.

2) You are neither Copt, nor Ethiopian. It is still a Foreign religion to you. ANd btw the Copts were converted by force. I dont need to remind you of the burning of the Great Pagan Libraries of Alexandria.

3)just as christians do. Theough christains are millitant against us and will attempt to destroy us wherever possible , brand us witch, etc.

4)Just as christians do.

You said it all bro..... I dont need to say much anymore.

@ Nativeboy, if you read the OP very well, you will understand I am not preaching any religion but sending a call or message to Africans to hold what belong to them. This message cut across atheism to Islam and christianity.

Also I dont do cherry picking. I chose the best verse to backup my points.....you cant expect me to quote whole bible here. If there are anything wrong in my bible quote, kindly show me.

Writing this was a motivation from the biography of rev. Ogunbiyi who founded Reform Ogboni frat. He was a christian, he lead churches and was highly respect. Despite, he didn't ignore Asebaye. They still worship Orisa in Ogboni today and I am proud I saw some pastors there too.

You were a christian because you were indoctrinated. You didn't make the choice. How long are you going to stand against your fathers?

Considering your query on sin...... In yoruba, sin is more social and cultural. In term of spirituality, it temper with your Ori. Have you every heard 'oun a ba gbin la n ka, asegbe kan o si' meaning whatever you sow you reap, there is no cause without an effect. That is why you have your Ori to guild you and stay by you in everything. Your Ori is your saviour......why are you ignoring it for another jew who doesn't care about you?

Logicboy03: I totally agree. We have a mod recommending the most foolish xtian threads ever to frontpage.......and they get there!


To get an atheist thread or non xtain thread to front page, we must beg and remind them.

Oga logic. Where have you been?

Let me get you straight bro. I dont get what you mean with Strike in your context. Is it not coming online or protesting against mod for their partiality?

truthislight: Did you not see this my reply again ?

Thought you wanted me to "role with" that ^

and i showed you this:


So, what say you about what Jesus said as the bigger picture ?

Lets take the history of the gospel. Mark was written before Matthew; and most account in the gospel of matthew were copied from gospel of mark with little additions.

Matthew 28:19 was copied from Mark 16:12-20 which we both know that the church added that to it. It was not original ancient scripture but a clean invention of the church.

And do you read matt 10:5-6? Where are the lost Israelites....in the wilderness.

The Israelites are sheep lost in the wilderness where other animals are but do shepherd take the goat or chicken or lion with his flock? Nope.

If you got brain, apply the analogy to the scripture.

Mr President: Ignoramus. Open your head to knowledge and stop pretending to be intelligent.
If I were you, I will google the book first.

If I were you, I will bury my head in shame and cry to my dad to tell me my lineage. You are best tag bastard and dog which got no tail. If you have one, you would have provide it here.

I dont need to google garbage since I know foolish things are contained on internet. Just go straight to your dad and the chief in your family circle to tell you your history and lineage. You got no shame bro.....get lost

Mr President: @FOLYKAZE
When you have read the book 'History of the Yoruba' by Rev. Samuel Johnson then we can talk better. Until then, continue raving like the confused and ignorant fellow that you are.

You can get the book at CSS Bookshop, Lagos Island.
Last time I checked it was =N=2,500

A book from a confused fellow who sold himself cheap for recognition? Man if you cant trace your own history with name from your grandfather back to tenth generation, just get lost.

That is the only case that can made me recognise your Bs. I need you to convince me you know yourself, your lineage and history rather than one useless and lost soul wrote in the book.

Mr President: There is evidence if you will just calm down and stop overrating your intelligence

Overrating my intelligence? Pls can you stop accusing me with this your boxed falsehood?

You asked a question and I answered you that I heard oral tradition......Yoruba history is not something that a book can cover. My own lineage can fill a whole library if we want to detail everything about it so why would you be expecting a whole Yoruba history in a book written by confused fellow?

If you want to sell and promote your inferiority knowledge which is tied in a piece of book, go do that to gullible folks. Yoruba people aint from Israel or judah. The wise people say if you want to hide something to African, keep it in the book. Sell your book to your mind......I AM NOT A JUDAH BUT YORUBA.

The only evidence you can provide me is to provide your own lineage between your grandfather to ten generation. I will provide you twenty names from my generational line. If you can provide the linkage and name of your ancestors to the tenth generation, I will take you serious and know you got reasonable thing to provide. If you cant, pls get lost with your garbage

Mr President: Have U read any book or done any study on the history of the Yoruba and where they came from?

I know where you are going bro. And it the nonsense judah which you dont have evidence for. So better stick to fact rather than inferiorizing your identity.

I got my historical about origin from oral tradition (patakis). You can hold your mumbo jumbo to yourself cuz I got shame and respect my ancestral Identity

manutdadex: ......sowi where in the bible o? Pls tell us

what is your own case? I dont understand your query pls rephrase.

manutdadex: This day I call the heavens and the
earth as witnesses against you that I
have set before you life and death,
blessings and curses. Now choose
life, so that you and your children
may live...mayb u will understnd beta...if ur father gave u two options and offer one as his prefered or best option for you and choose wrong wont there be consequences

My father is human which can be good or bad to me because either of us are not perfect. God is not human so your analogy is flaw. Next try

[size=18pt]ISLAM[/size]

Islam is a monotheistic religious tradition that developed in the Middle East in the 7th century C.E. Islam, which literally means "surrender" or "submission," was founded on the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad as an expression of surrender to the will of Allah, the creator and sustainer of the world. The Quran, the sacred text of Islam, contains the teachings of the Prophet that were revealed to him from Allah. Islam faith started by prophet mohamed was composed of Judaism, christianity and eastern cultures. Muslim worship in mosque and the symbol of Islam is a moon and a star.

[size=18pt]What the Quran say about Islam, and who it message are directed to[/size]

Quran 6:92
Sahih International

And this is a Book which We have sent down, blessed and confirming what was before it, that you may warn the Mother of Cities and those around it. Those who believe in the Hereafter believe in it, and they are maintaining their prayers. (The mother of towns, Umul Qura, is Mecca.)

42:7
Sahih International

And thus We have revealed to you an Arabic Qur'an that you may warn the Mother of Cities ]Makkah[ and those around it and warn of the Day of Assembly, about which there is no doubt. A party will be in Paradise and a party in the Blaze.

^^^the above reveal that prophet mohamed brought Islam through a revelation/final message directed at the people in mecca. I heard some Muslims say, around it means everywhere. That is not the definition of around it. When we say Rome and around it, we don’t include Paris, London, Tokyo, New York, Enugu, Ile-Ife or Sokoto as Romes surroundings.




[size=28pt]WHAT EACH ABRAHAMIC FAITH SAY ABOUT TRIBALISM, TRIBAL GODS AND TRIBAL SPIRITUALITY[/size]

• Judaism : Micah 4:5

For all the nations walk, each in the name of its god, but we will walk in the name of Yahweh our God, forever and ever.

commentary : each race, tribe, group, nation, country and household of people are expected to walk in the name their Gods while Israel will go for what belong to them which is Yahweh. If the Old scripture can state this, why are Africans following what doesn't belong to them?

• Christianity : 1 Corinthians 8:5-6

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords", yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Commentary : The gospel reveal that there are many Gods and many Lords both on Earth and in Heaven. But 'us' (paul was a jew) have one God and one Lord. Where are the other Gods and Lords? Definately they are attributed to people. So Paul is informing us that 'us' (him and his people) are entitled to Jehovah and Jesus. Why on earth are Africans giving themselves headache about another God/Lord?

[b]• Islam : Quran 10:47

And for every people there is a Messenger.

Quran 14:4

And WE have not sent any Messenger except with revelation in the language of his people in order that he might make things clear to them.

Quran 16:36

And WE did raise among every people a Messenger

Commentary : If these verses are true, then Islam is not for non-Arabs. The Quran attests that every people have received their divine message in their own language so they can understand it and the Quran is for Arabs. These verses leave no room for misunderstanding. Allah is saying that every people has had their own messenger who warned them in their own language, and that Muhammad is for those who have not yet received any guidance, and whose fathers were not warned, i.e. the Arabs. In this way they won’t have any excuse and can’t say, but we did not receive any message...... Yoruba, Igbo and Hausa including all African tribes have their messengers sent to them..... Why are Africans still submitting themselves to other tribe messengers, religion, faith, God and Lord? Why are we selling our identity, why are we burying our history, why are we stamping on our spirituality?

Africans are still suffering from denial of self otherwise known as mental slavery. If African knew themselves, they'd know that the three major western religions are fairly new in terms of spiritual practices. All Africans need to open a book and start to look at their ancient ancestors in Kush/Nubia/Kemet, Nigeria (Yoruba, Igbo and Hausa), Dogon, Ethiopia, etc etc. There are facts and research which shows that christianity, islam and judaism are all similar and have stolen their knowledge from Ancent Afrika! For how long are we going to enslave ourselves into the nations that enslaved our ancestors? I think we should go back to our own ways of praying to the Almighty, instead of embracing the very same religions that played a part in our slavery.


What is your opinion fellow brethren, correct me if i am wrong.

I tendered conditions for my reconvertion to christianity on this thread but not even a christian and God could make the tie for my conversion. Am I to continue saying christianity isn't for me and my people? Is God of the christians specifically for some set of people? I think the only answer here is that christianity or Jesus is not for everybody. Even the bible reveal this to us.....so why do we still have Africans who are christians?

I am an atheist; spiritual atheist specifically who embrace African spirituality. It is a shame for me as an atheist to kick against my ancestral belief like some African atheist do. It is a shame that some can defend Buddhism and other Eastern spirituality but cant say anything about their ancestral belief. As a Yoruba, no matter the length I travel, no matter my education and civilization I am expose to, I cant deny my heritage, spirituality and history for anything. My message is for Africans and it beat every person including the faith you belong. Considering this thread, I am not arguing on 'my God is better than yours' or 'your religion is false'. This is a call for all Africans to reason along with their ancestral spirituality through Abrahamic faith which most hold onto. I will cut my point across the three Abrahamic faiths (Judaism, christianity and Islam). These three religions have scared scriptures which explain about each religion, the message of the said faith and those the message are directed to. For Judaism, I will use Old testament (since it copied from Torah); for Christianity, I will use the New Testament or Gospel; and for Islam, I will choose the quran.



[size=18pt]JUDAISM[/size]

Judaism is a religious tradition with origins dating back nearly four thousand years, rooted in the ancient near eastern region of Canaan (which is now Israel and Palestinian territories). Originating as the beliefs and practices of the people known as "Israel," classical, or rabbinic, Judaism did not emerge until the 1st century C.E. Judaism traces its heritage to the covenant God made with Abraham and his lineage — that God would make them a sacred people and give them a holy land. The primary figures of Israelite culture include the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the prophet Moses, who received God's law at Mt. Sinai. Judaism is a tradition grounded in the religious, ethical, and social laws as they are articulated in the Torah. Moses was the main founder of Judaism, but Jews can trace their history back as far as Abraham. They worship in synagogue and are represented with the star of David.

[size=18pt]What old testament says about Judaism, and who it message are directed to[/size]

Deuteronomy 7:6
King James Version (KJV)

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Psalm 78:71
King James Version

71 From following the ewes great with young he brought him to feed Jacob his people, and Israel his inheritance.

^^^the above is showing us that bible God is more concerned about Israel his inheritance. Why are African forcing themselves on this tribalistic God who got nothing to offer them?



[size=18pt]CHRISTIANITY[/size]

Christianity developed out of Judaism in the 1st century C.E. It is founded on the life, teachings, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and those who follow him are called "Christians." Christian history begins with the life and death of Jesus Christ and continues with the formation of the early Christian church, Emperor Constantine's Holy Roman Empire and the great schism into Eastern and Western Christianity. His birth is believed by Christians to be the fulfilment of prophecies in the Jewish Old Testament, which claimed that a Messiah would deliver the Jewish people from captivity. Their scared scripture is the gospel including hebrew scripture...they worship in church and hold symbol of cross.

[size=18pt]What the Gospel says about Christianity, and who it message are directed to[/size]

Matthew 15:24
King James Version (KJV)

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 10:5-10
King James Version (KJV)

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

^^^above reveal that Jesus didnt give a damn about anybody except jew/israel. Why are Africans today christian despite this tribalistic message and segregation?

rationalmind: @macof n folykaze. Thanks for your replies, this IFA stuff looks really fascinating. Most of us who are yorubas don't even know a dime about it. I'll try to read more on it myself.

So you Yoruba? Omo oduduwa na wa o.

Yeah as an atheist, I know most of my pals will hate my take on spirituality especially Orisa and Abalaye practices. I dont give a damn what people think though. So people can say anything....I am good be tag as spiritual atheist. I was ashamed of myself when my African American friend bashed me for not having knowledge about my culture and ancestral spirituality. It so glaring most atheist on this forum do not got shame.....joel jola called them white man slave who embrace everything western world paint from darwins to buddhism. It a shame for person to defend buddhism when I debate him but cant say anything about Chi (deity of Igbo). It a shame for person like LB who cant say anything about Oborowe but can defend buddhism and Darwin till last point. It is a shame on me too if I cant promote my ancestral heritage. I had to keep the shame to myself in full acceptance to learn one or two things about my history and culture. She came to Nigeria last year where we had chance to talk about Ifa and Orisa. She explained spirituality and it relation with science to me. I took that as words but realised she was saying reasonable thing when I congregate with Ijo-Orunmila in lagos. I asked questions, try to tempt Awo and heard many patakis. This is where I took interest about Ifa.

Ifa, a sophisticated and complex geomantic divinatory tool. Ifa is an ancient monument where the Culture of the Yoruba people is encapsulated enthroned and entombed. It is much more than Geomancy in that it is not only divinatory, it also embodies the Beliefs, Religion, History, Sociology and Ecology of the people. It therefore diagnoses, treats, adjudicates, arbitrates, guides, advises, instructs, teaches, explains as well attempts to unravel the mystery of existence in this world. A group of sixteen Ikin, commonly known as sacred palm nuts, which are used to create binary data.........

Microprocessor Assembly Code is written in Hexadecimal (base 16)

Ifa is an ancient sacred science that has been passed down generationally for thousands of years. Ifa is a science of divination – a means of communication and interaction with the unseen, spiritual world. Through the practice of Ifa we can see what cannot be seen – in the past, present, and future – and thus diagnose problems that are beyond our scope. We do not need to separate science from spirituality in order to uphold the materialist power structure. Science is the profound source of spirituality.

I understand most of us dont know much about it. Ifa works with awo (esoterism). Those initiated are entitled to have full knowledge about it. But since I am still with my parents, I need to hold some peace till im out for my initiation. I just want to know it.

There are some threads about it which you can read from.

https://www.nairaland.com/1477407/ifa-ifa-practice-it-religion

https://www.nairaland.com/1486568/plain-concept-eledumare-orisas-reality

https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity

https://www.nairaland.com/1463158/aborisa-yoruba-religion

Ori wa a gbe wa o. Ase

rationalmind: What a brilliant reply. You na boss o. I expect the dude to come back to say, "folykaze does not understand the bible"lol

I should have hold my breathe and let him dance to the tone of ignorance. The guy don run na. Lol