₦airaland Forum

ooman: i think all

Especially Santeria and lukumi.....it well known religiously infected Ifa spirituality. Ogun is called saint george. It more like ifa-catholism. Much like anglican-ogboni. Stone is stone no matter how you cave it.

macof: Ifa is not a religion.
It is only part of some religions

which religion? Santeria or lukumi or Afa in togo voodoo?

Logicboy, lets talk.

I remember daily reading of your post two years ago made me realise somethings which were blind to me.

But what happen nowadays? You becoming troll

Tgirl4real: Well, to answer your question, Ifa is a religion.

And religion is spiritual.

I said it clearly....religion is the subset of spirituality.

How is Ifa a religion?

Tgirl4real: Hi FOLYKAZE,

Is this the new religion you embracing?

This is the second thread of yours I will be seeing along this theme.

I dont do religion. Im on to spirituality.

A step after atheism....good been an evolving mind

ooman: ok, according to your first subtopic, it can be right for me as an atheist to say i am spiritual about something i am so committed to? That's John Lennon's position...

#your question: I think Ifa practice is spirituality

YES. I have been trying to explain spirituality to some atheist here.... It got nothing to do with belief in God or deity.

Im proudly spiritual atheist

tintingz: Stop smoking that weed again, its getting too much

Igbo is a good thang. I dont smoke.

Erm....do yourself a favor by reading through this http://waronyou.com/forums/index.php?topic=7665.0%3Bwap2

Logicboy03: Put down the weed, son.

Fagbo oshi

Sometime, I better ignore you to live to your delusion.

Religion and spirituality are often mistakenly understood as synonymous terms. This has really made people lost the real conception of Ifa and draw line on their misunderstanding. Lets review spirituality, religion and Ifa.....we can judge from there.


WHAT IS SPIRITUALITY?

Spirituality is the search for the sacred, for that which is set apart from the ordinary and worthy of veneration, "a transcendent dimension within human experience...discovered in moments in which the individual questions the meaning of personal existence and attempts to place the self within a broader ontological context."

• is an internal process of seeking personal authenticity, genuineness, and wholeness as an aspect of identity development;

• is the process of continually transcending one's current locus of centricity;

• is the development of a greater connectedness to self and others through relationships and union with community;

• is the process of deriving meaning, purpose, and direction in one's life; and

• involves an increasing openness to exploring a relationship with an intangible and pervasive power or essence or center of value that exists beyond human existence and rational human knowing.

Conclusively, spirituality is considered a more personal quality, and is sometimes described as a feeling of connection with everything. Spiritual people are generally open to just about anything as long as it gives them the emotional lift they are looking for, and it tends to be thought of as internal and personal, a 'to each his own' affair. It deals with universal questions of origin, purpose, ethical behavior and destiny. The answers to these questions may take us into other areas of thought, such as science or philosophy or religion. But the questions about what it means to be human — why we are here, how we should act toward self and other, what will eventually become of us and the universe.


WHAT IS RELIGION?

Religion is a system of social coherence based on a common group of beliefs or attitudes concerning an object, person, unseen being, or system of thought considered to be supernatural, sacred, divine or highest truth, and the moral codes, practices, values, institutions, traditions, and rituals associated with such belief or system of thought.

• is a concern over what exists beyond the visible world (operating through faith and intuition);

• generally includes the idea of the existence of a single being, a group of beings, an eternal principle, or transcendental spiritual entity that has created the world, that governs it, that controls its destinies, or that intervenes occasionally in the natural course of its history;

• is a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects; and

• is the idea that ritual, prayer, spiritual exercises, or certain principles and conduct.

Religion deals with specific beliefs, faith, doctrines, practices, rituals and morality. There is a correct way to think, speak, believe and act. Religions have religious practitioners who specialize in their specific religion, denomination or sect. Their role is to guide, govern and preside over the gathering or otherwise aid the individual seeking to become or already professing to be an adherent to that religion. Religion is a formal set of beliefs contained in a statement or confession of faith. It is often sustained by a defined organization who hands down the beliefs and practices and authorizes ministers to lead people gathered together to worship as a body or group. Religion simply is a subset of spirituality.


WHAT IS IFA?

There is no literal translation for the word Ifa. Ifa refers to the system of divination and the verses of the literary corpus known as the Odu Ifa. It is a spiritual tradition, and understanding of ethics, a process of spiritual transformation and a set of corpus of texts (odu) that are the basis for a complex system of divination.

Ifa is an indigenous, earth centered African spiritual tradition which was conceptualized by the Yoruba people and also practised by the African diaspora in the Americas and the Caribbean. Ifa practitioners do not regard their spirituality as a 'religion' in the Western sense. It is instead a way of relating to spiritual energy that helps individuals discover and stay on their path. The tradition is based on staying in balance with our community and with the world itself, with our ancestors and our personal spiritual energies. It a body of knowledge or source of a particular kind of social and spiritual knowledge that is all encompassing philosophy and science; it extends to metaphysics and spiritual enquiry of past, present and future. Practitioners are encouraged to employ common sense and personal responsibility, to appreciate the sacred everyday life, and to integrate all aspects of being, namely the physical, the emotional, the mental and the spiritual.



Is Ifa practise a religion or spirituality?

Logicboy03: Catholics get ballz. I respect the catholic church for that. They dont bow to Islamic terror threats.

The whole thing started when the govt sued a catholic paper for using "Allah". They said that christians cant use the word.

Catholic paper sued the govt and won. They could use "Allah"

The govt used PDP cheating techniques- they appealed and got a judge that ruled in court in favour of stopping non-muslims for using "Allah"

The equation is very simple.

Roman government invented Jesus and christianity to wage mental warfare on mars and bring the world under the empire rule.

Vatican created Mohammed and Islam to wage militia warfare against Jew and other christians.

Islam is a great allie of catholic.....still looking forward to the time they will fall by their sword

macof: When I say christianity is a fraud dat would say I've come again

Holy spirit my butt, Jude had no such thing, I would post some verses from John's revelation which he copied from the book of Enoch, later. The inspiration the apostles had was no holy spirit but the book of Enoch.

Jesus and all the apostles quote directly from the book of Enoch. While this book was not canonized, it mean the church govern and rule over faith and doctrines of christiandom.....the catholic church is the God of christiandom....vatican is there heaven.

It really wield how people can be so deceived

ajayikayod: Have u gone thru d link i posted. If u do, all d above questions are answered thr.

And is the link book of Enoch or Letter of Jude?

I checked through the link....it just remixing of grounded fact. Maybe you can explain the iota truth you find there here

ooman: still doesnt mean i have no freedom...

What exactly are you free doing? Or do we need to define Freedom?

Remember the real 'you' is illusion.

plaetton: The wife of mikhail Gorbachev, former head of the soviet union , once said in an interview, during nuclear disarmament talks in the late 80s, "If we disarm all our nuclear weapons, what will we use to defend ourselves against the aliens? ".
This confirmation from someone who should know, that an alien threat really exists.

can we for once stop russia say, US said and be ourselves?

If I tell you my grandfather still visit me, I can point to Egungun festival in Yorubaland as evidence....im very sure you cant and will never be able to dispute my point.

The bible can be interpreted into anything. So pls lets drop a book and think outside box.

Where is the evidence that one green body mortal that breathe nitrogen and visit our home? Even though there are signs pointing to extra-terrestital life, where is the evidence that they have anything to do with us?

ooman: i answered this question right in my first post in this thread, its called instinct, its the natural response to stimuli

instinct is inborn complex patterns of behavior that exist in every member of the species and that cannot be overcome by force of will. It is mirror neurons in the brain. It the brain functioning automatically......You got no hands or control on this.

ROSSIKE: Stop describing these African creation stories as 'myths'. That is ignorant. What these stories are are SYMBOLIC, METAPHORIC stories, which are told to simplify complex cosmic occurrences.

How do you explain to pre-industrial societies how a technologically advanced race arrived on earth in advanced craft, and used genetic engineering to create man by blending their genes with earth hominids? Of course you will NEED to condense the story into everyday language and symbols that the people could relate to. But if you investigate and go deeper, you will find that there are priests who hold the deeper knowledge and can expand the entire story and make it 'make sense'.

This is exactly where im having problem with the OP.

Yoruba spirituality becomes a religion.

The coded cosmological hypothesis (what I called spiritual hypothesis) becomes myth.

He is versed but just lifting things as the westerner depict and corrupt it.

plaetton: Well, my friend, if you are waiting for CNN to break the news, sorry, it won't happen.
All scriptures, much anectodal evidence from nearly all cultures and civilization point to the fact that man has been interacting with extra-terrestial life right from the beginning.
You might be surprised that even the Yoruba deities in Yoruba mythology closely have common characteristics of the Mesopotamian gods that were said to have arrived from heaven(another world).

When shaman's , Authentic babalawos, Dibias, etc, invoke spirits, who or what do you think they are interacting with?

Our world leaders are well aware of this.
The UN, even the Vatican, all have established protocols for dealing with extra-terrestial biological life forms.
There is so much written material on this subject, I don't even know where to begin.

Now, let me ask you a question, and please answer as honestly as you can.
Many religious folks come hereon Nl to claim that they saw god, jesus, Mary, Angels, demons (including text messages. lol) etc, . Right?

Now, if i tell you that I have had interactions with extra-terrestials, what would you think of me?
Would you believe me, would you take my word for it, would you demand proof, or would call me a liar or simply dismiss me as a wacho?

You are entitle to your opinion. The brain is a very complex machine and you can speculate anything.....convince yourself with proof and I might not be able to pull you down.

Ya....I have heard Osanyin babalawo saying Osanyin went to heaven for meetings with God. But Osanyin is just a carved wood. If this could be true, the real Osayin will be force or energy and not one blood and flesh mortals from another planet.

Can you do me a favor pls, put away the bible and all this stories from different culture.....science have traces that there is life out there with many possibilities in their planetary observation....but how does aliens there even know we exist? Any traces of relationship with them?

beejaay: classic!!! i started out by hanging around kids and observing there behaviours (kids btw d age of 1-5)

I can remember when I was keeping a monkey as pet......there was something funny and wield happening everytime the monkey come in contact with mirror.

I observed the monkey will look cruely at her reflection and at the end fight herself. It really funny and wield.

I think there is nothing in the mirror......the brain makes the monkey think there is something and enemy hiding behind the mirror.....it the same brain thats making the monkey to fight herself.

The brain is hardwired and it cells are patterned to react one way or the other. I dont think human is morally free to control this.

Plaetton....can we for once inform ourselves if Man has meet or find any Alien once?

Are they the big head, green eye monster in hollywood?

I still think if they do exist.....they have nothing to do with us. What ya think?

macof: ok Mr Phil lemme come down to your level. the story is untrue right? It's jst a myth and myths are lies right? nothing about the Yoruba story is true right?. Yes Yes and Yes would be ur answers.

The story of Adam and eve is a Jewish myth.
The story of a Messiah coming to redeem the world is a myth
The story about satan is a myth
The story about The garden of Eden is a myth
The story of God coming down to mt Sinai to personally give the commandments to Moses is a myth
The story about the tower of Babel is a myth
The story of the whole 6days creation is a myth
The whole Bible is a myth
But you believe it to be true

Am sure you do not understand wat am trying to say but here's the dope The Bible is untrue

Can you pls ignore this guy? He is diverting the thread to something else.

beejaay: the word god/God doesnt expalin anything that is why people fight for ownership of it.. the word is nothing more than a word and no matter hw hard we try to understand we can never get it... its like trying to explain what NOW is, NOW cannot be grasped no matter hw hard we try (it can only be realized thats is why people attribute omniscience with god)



my brother the first step is to know that there is really nothing to understand (when we try to understand we are simply looking for reasons and our mind is so powerful that it will give us all the reasons we need),just observe (for example here on nairaland, instead of posting and reacting to post, just observe what is being posted without judging the content of the post, u will notice that a new level realization open itself up)... we avoid the pit of knowledge by just observing (jesus said that we should be awake like the servant waiting for the arrival of the master)

truth be told she means nothing, she is only revealing to you what she knows and her believe (which is neither right nor wrong), the only sad thing is that we become so attached to wat we think we know that it took us over and bcome our identity

in one word.....the universe is void.

ooman: and we have no freedom because of this, how?

A typical question I love to ask.....who teach a just baby how to suck, digest milk, urinate, poo, cry and if it a boy, try roll your hand on his boyhood, it got erect. How does this happen when a baby is not self-conscious?

It dynamical natural automation which we cant and dont control. The control will have is illusion set by other side of the brain.

beejaay: thanks to einsteing for bailing me out

Lol. If that be the case, our been here got no meaning.... Everything is vanity and chasing of wind.

beejaay: the truth is i have nothing to tell that u dont already know....if anything i will just create a ground for arguments

The truth is that im conscious but need to understand self-consciousness.... You get me right?

beejaay: some we say we are and some will say we are not..well i know we are beyound (saying we are finite means we have limitations and saying we are infinite bring about question of infinite regression) the same way when people talk about God existence i simply tell them god is beyound existence, why? because existence is bound by the space time continum whether here in our galaxy or other galaxies.. when am asked what god is then, i simply tell them God is the same way humans are, no amount of words can explain it cos it is us that create the words we speak not the other way round

I dont believe in God but I still find this your concept reasonable. God to me is the totality of all.

beejaay: both of them explain the same thing... ori is the cause while ipin is the effect

this is what im trying to explain. Some pick on the surface of Ifa teaching.....thinking predestination is supernatural folklore.

Sorry if my question is getting too much...... There is this my friend I told im atheist. She laughed at me and said everything im doing now, it is planned in Ajule Orun and im just manifesting on script. She said i was an atheist in Ajule Orun before been born and that is why it manifest in me.

What exactly does she mean?

ooman: why did you say we have no freedom...

we are conscious and manifesting consciousness within existence.

Manifestation is chemical and electric reaction. Billions of cells are processing and manifesting our experience through sense organ. The brain riddle and grind all. The chunk in our head is the boss.

beejaay: i wish i could but unfortunately am good with writing (i dont rili have a good english background, i started learning when i entered the university back then) but i will try my best to bring a pointer (but pls pardon my errors)


everybody wants to be the light, they ask for enlightenment, they all want to illuminate accross the world, they all forbade darkenss (they see darkness as evil ) but what they are oblivious of is that darkness is the creator of light, the source of every illumination is darkness.. thats why Lao Ztu said "freed from desire and u can see the hidden mystery, with desire u can only see what is visibly real" desire is light and its only those that nurture the darkness of their soul that can see beyound darkness (there is nothing beyound light except light)

when people try to deny the darkness of there soul they talk about control of thought, emotions and the like... a true seeker embrace darkness..


when u nurture the darkness of ur soul and see the outward projection of light.. when u move within the light can u return back to source at will?? (after acquiring knowledge can u drop it all and marvel at the foolishness of it all...this is why ifa mythology said life is vanity, that those that look for life didn't find it and those that found didnt know they have....why because its never lost in the first place)
the secret of death is to die before we die and when we die we realize that there is no death



the truth is even i knw that i have not said anything ***and that is what am trying to point towards***

1000 likes. This is a course on it own.

Pardon my foolishness here pls. Here is my outline on the way I understand the above

- darkness is the stream of experience

- light is the observation of darkness.....it end of dark tunnel

- everything is nothing.....both darkness and light is the reality of each other. Nothing comes out of this.

Got some sense here?

Chai.....let me check if im having any shot

beejaay: trying to control anything atall is a futile exercise as i av found out, the only thing we do in the process is create more suffering (all it takes for us is to look around for trillions of example)... the body is programmed to take kia of itself without interference, any attempt to do otherwise bring conflict and conflict bring suffering... every suffering that we see in all facet of live is as a result of interference (the wars and hungers included)... wars are result of quest for control/power, control is a result of greed, greed is a result of fear while fear is an offspring of competition

Oh my.....LIFE ITSELF IS NOTHING.

If the body was programmed to take care of itself......isn't this what we call predestination?

Predestination to me is experimentation of consciousness within existence. What ya think about this view?

beejaay: frankly speaking bros we can call our mind anything and we will find prove for it

Nothing can be proven, everything is "speculation" when it comes down to it. Facts are just observations based on our experiences. “No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.” - Albert Einstein


But bro....let me learn from ya. Dont want this nullifing things.

Are we one infinite mind?

beejaay: am just an observer

Whats your observation on Ori and Ipin?

beejaay: the question is what is illusion?? below are some verses of Lao Ztu that i tend to ponder on a lot

The Master leads by
emptying people's minds,
filling their bellies,
weakening their ambitions,
and making them become strong.
Preferring simplicity and freedom from desires,
avoiding the pitfalls of knowledge and wrong action.

Nurture the darkness of your soul
When you understand all things
can you step back from your own understanding?

Renounce knowledge and your problems will end.
What is the difference between yes and no?
What is the difference between good and evil?
Must you fear what others fear?

Erm sir...

Lets be sincere, im lost in you. Can you pls break things down. Pls

ooman: it controls the choices we have, but i think instinct controls what we choose... what favors survival and what doesnt...

Omo odua. Lol

Instinct is still function of the brain.

We have no freedom...... What ya think?

ooman: What automated reaction do you control?

#You dont control something that is automated.....

simply no ability to choice.

#we are just in matrix

beejaay: i dont believe there is a substantial definition for the word freewill, infact i believe freewill explain nothing at all.. i dont get attached

Alright, let me simply ask......can we control our thought, choice and mental activities or it other way round?

beejaay: no one is free and no one is a puppet, the answer lies beyound freedom and bondage

are you specifically saying we are one infinite mind?

beejaay: its a word created out of nothing so i dont get attached to it... infact i have come to realize that all words are just pointer not a destination (every words used in the spiritual/natural explanation are just a means to an end not an end in itself)

Im sorry pls....are you a nihilist?

What is your understanding in Yoruba concept of Ori and Ipin?

ooman: you are not controlling the reaction and the dynamism of nature is what brings about the automation

can we simply say dynamism of nature is the thing controlling us?


I will appreciate if you read through this article....http://www.joaoferreiradias.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/7135279-ANaturalisticInterpretationOfTheYorubaConceptOfOri1.pdf

like I told Uyi yesterday.....Ori and predestination simply is consciousness and manifestation of consciousness within existence.

ooman: ability to choose ?

Thanks

You once said that the real 'me' is an illusion of the brain.

The real 'me' takes charge of ability or decision to choice

Our thought is a complex reaction while our choice is the processing of our thought. All this is illusion.

How can the 'illuminated me' controls automated reaction and call it freewill? Is this not neuron playing game on us?