₦airaland Forum

beejaay: am not saying what u said was wrong (who am i to even say something like that), i was only bringing in another perspective (frankly speaking i dont subscribe to the right/wrong idea..to me nothing is wrong and nothing right, everything is just as it is).. i was only saying that a seeking mind should not stop his wandering mind because it is in wandering that we become whole..

Hey man.... This thread was opened specifically for you....https://www.nairaland.com/1475169/madness-doing-morally-free-mental

ooman: Fate, kismet, predestination - are all myths..... there is only coincidence, no predestination, because the predestinator would require a predestinator, and that goes on forever...

lets start with your definition of freewill. Might get your picture clearer there

ooman: you asked for my thoughts on freewill, and i gave it...

as long as these chemical reactions are random, am free

the only illusion here is thought that there is a you, who is choosing.... there is really no you, just a combination of cells that make a unit, so you are reducible... period...

calm down man. We dont know things all at once....we learn so nothing bad learning from you too.

The chemical and electrical reaction are operating random on a universal law. Your brain cant stimulate to what you dont have knowledge about or saved in the memory bank. How is you controlling this reaction? Lot of reaction are going unnoticied automatically.......what brings about the automation?

aManFromMars: @OP: It's good ethics to post the links of your sources to avoid being accused of plagiarism.

A majority of people are automatically sent in to massive confusion and panic because they allow themselves to be led to the truth rather than guided to it – so that they can “feel” the truth!.....Amanfrommars is exceptional. Deal with topic

ooman: Fate, kismet, predestination - are all myths..... there is only coincidence, no predestination, because the predestinator would require a predestinator, and that goes on forever...

As if there is a term like God in my post. Deal with topic.

ooman: A lion may choose to kill a prey, or let it go, based on its level of hunger, is that freewill?

I think what we call freewill is instinct, no matter what, you wont do something you wont gain in it, even if its just a good feeling that it gives, like a feeling of sharing love, or revenge, even though it might hurt you, so i think what we call freewill is the relic of our instinctual existence, from our ape ancestors...

Can you directly answer the questions directed at you or you want to dance around?

Note: the choice you made is also a chemical reaction in your brain. So you aint free anywhere

Hey Macof and Uyi-iredia.....lets discuss Ori and predestination on this thread https://www.nairaland.com/1475169/madness-doing-morally-free-mental

Logicboy03: sharrap

Oga logic. Dont make atheism end in bashing of christianity and Islam. Lets walk through the philosophy of Existence.

Your contribution on this thread needed https://www.nairaland.com/1475169/madness-doing-morally-free-mental

I dont want viewing.....let others learn from your thought

Was reading a book about African philosophy and Spirituality which pictured that we are always being moved towards magnificence by "universe". Now, I have come up with the idea base on the concept of Ori and Ipin (destiny) in Yoruba philosophy that we are nothing else but puppets. This is much more like being moved by satellites with loaded images and thoughts. Man is aware of its results, but not of the process itself. I find it fascinating that there is so much going on automatically that we're aware of so little of it. You might find this theory weak but if you think again, you will start finding clues in your life that proves the truth.

Intelligent folks all from religion circle, spiritual sides, philosophical view, and other house of knowledge have debated the issue of freewill for millennia. But over the past several years, while the philosophers and other scholars continue to argue about the metaphysical underpinnings of human choice, an increasing number of neuroscientists have started to tackle the issue head on — quite literally. And most of them believe that their experiments reveal that our subjective experience of freedom may be nothing more than an illusion.

Indeed, historically speaking, African philosophers, metaphysists and spiritual men have had plenty to say on the matter. Their ruminations have given rise to such considerations as cosmological determinism (the notion that everything proceeds over the course of time in a predictable way, making freewill impossible), indeterminism (the idea that the universe and our actions within it are random, also making freewill impossible), and cosmological libertarianism/compatibilism (the suggestion that freewill is logically compatible with deterministic views of the universe meaning operating within the law of nature).

I know we don't have freewill base on Yoruba spirituality. Freewill is a very convincing illusion and that the thoughts, feelings, and behaviors of human beings are just a chain of reactions that operate according to physical laws. This chain of reaction is so extremely complex that it can't be predicted and it gives the illusion that we have freewill.

Also from atheistic view, our view points that all that exists is the material/physical world, and hence everything operates according to the laws of physics - even our behaviors, emotions, and most personal thoughts. All of this is due to the chain of chemical reactions in our brain that cause us to think/feel/act in the ways that we do, and in response to the actions of others which themselves are determined by the chain of chemical reactions in their brain, which themselves are determined by the actions of others.... and on and on it goes.

Moe's lines in the movie Simpsons: "Rich people aren't happy. From the day they're born to the day they die, they think they're happy, but trust me. They ain't.". In the past I used to dismiss determinism as a dead-end concept from primitive retard and embrace ‘freewill’ as the positive alternative......the more I look into this, the more I see illusion of brain. A person's conscious thoughts, intentions, and efforts at every moment are preceded by causes of which he is unaware. What is more, they are preceded by deep causes — genes, childhood experience, etc. — for which no one, however evil, can be held responsible. Our ignorance of both sets of facts gives rise to moral illusions. The choice we made and every decision is a configuration within the neurons....the feelings that we are free and ego.....everything is illusion.



______________________________________________________

The questions I will like to ask are:

- what are your thought on freewill?

- Are we human free or just a slave/puppet?

- What are your views on predestination (cosmological determinism)?

Uyi Iredia: And yes I'm from Edo, Bini to be precise.

My ancestral lineage flows down from Bini. In my village, they recognise Oba of Bini as the head of all Baales and Oba. Im an Ikale

Uyi Iredia: I will download it later, I'm not on BIS now: though the thing is you seem to want to restrict Ifa worship to naturalistic interretations and I think it transcends that, that's why I'm still as surrised with the way you defined Eledumare.

There is nothing like Ifa worship. Yoruba people dont worship Ifa.

Everything is natural and bind within a law. Everything cant be explain now. So lets keep questioning.

Lets assume I understand Quantum physic much, it would have been easy to explain African spirituality.

What we got is never a waste....keep seeking enlightenment

ajayikayod: I think ds mit help

http://www.signsoftheend.net/Prophecy/DEBUNKINGBOOKOFENOCH.html

What book did Jude quote from?

Was the Book inspired or fetish documents?

If Jude didn't quote any book, could that mean he was lying and writing gilberish?

Uyi Iredia: I once read a story which involves one's ori (head) making its wish to Olorun before arriving earth to carry it out. I guessed later on that this was drawn from Ifa worship. Can yo please confirm this ?

Uyi.

Download A Naturalistic Interpretation of the Yoruba Concepts of Ori

Oro po ninu iwe kobo.

Ori and predestination simply is consciousness and manifestation of consciousness within existence.

Read through that link for more insight

Uyi Iredia: True. In Edo traditional religion which also includes Ifa worship. The head is important. A sacrifice is made to the head, as my Dad once said 'serve your head'.

same thing in yoruba spirituality.

Are you from Edo? Im investigating relationship between Odua and bini. I belief Odua is from bini and not from mecca which I watched in movie.

There are relationship in Yoruba and Bini spiritualism

macof: the Yoruba religion is driven by the teachings of Ifa and worship of Orisa. I believe u knw this na, why ask again? Anyway it's the spiritual belief of the Yoruba people, seeking help from the orisa, offering sacrifice and praises to them in the hope of maintaining a relationship with them so as to gain assistance in life. However Ifa says Ori is wat we should worship first before any Orisa. Ori knows us more than we know ourselves, that is why achieving knowledge and keeping balance is essential for connecting with our Ori. These are the major principles of the Yoruba religion.

I still dont see how it religion. Thats the problem im having here.

Worship......where does any Orisa ask for our worship? Maybe by saying worship you mean respect or practices.

Yoruba people consult Babalawo.....this is spiritual practises...no religion attached.

Abi na festival be religion?

nnofaith: like i told you in some other thread BS is BS no matter where it is from. The yoruba myths are not any better than the jewish or igbo myths. olodumare is energy! what a joke of the century.because somebody re-packaged yoruba myths with fancy words, you now expect all of us to report at the shrine for initiation. i ask you again what is the essence of sacrifice (ebo) in your ifa "spirituality" why is sacrifice (ebo rirun) one of the conerstone of ifa?

p.s no fancy words pls.

I explained it to my own knowledge in previous thread. Go and fish it out for yourself and read again. Next

ooman: yes, you are right, i hate the word God, it irritates me, because it suggest someone of maximum complexity, with a conscious personality can just exist, whereas nature, that goes from simple to complex, must be created..... the word God should be rid off all languages, its an impossibility, consciousness cannot just pop into existence, not to talk of such consciousness as required by a God.

But why are you behaving like this? My post was not directed to you. Man pls be yourself and stop been man of words.


Pantieist call Nature God. Go and tell them there God doesn't exist. Excuse me pls

9jadelta: the link u posted

Herbs to Cure Sickle Cell, HIV
BY ABUBAKAR YAKUBU, 13 JULY 2009
Abuja — ESOMA, a herbal research institute in Abuja at the weekend said it has drugs to cure sickle cell anaemia and to boost the immune systems of people living with HIV.

This was disclosed by one of the institute's board of trustees, Pastor Solomon Balosibina at a press briefing to mark the research centre's 10th anniversary on Saturday at Gwarinpa, Abuja.


do u know the number of people that claimed to have these herbs and later happened to be scam?

how can anyone have such herbs and decide not to commercialized it?

Im not in for commercializing. Im in for servicing.

I only showed you something is in here.......my dad can make herbs but do not know any chemical names. If thats what is hindering medical development in Africa, thats why I said those intelligent in science to investigate it.

Okooloyun is making it from herb big time......im not for money but seeing use building and developing African thought

9jadelta: folykaze stop trying so hard to explain ur self.
if ur spirituality doesn't involve believing in some sort of mystical creatures that work wonders then u are an atheist, whatever exercise u do after is ur own headache as long as it doesn't contradict what atheism really means.

u can be a herbalist and still be an atheist (not babaolowo o) same way I can be a pharmacist and still be atheist

I normally do this Buddhist/hindu meditation thing, ican't remember the name right now. when some people see me doing it, they think it has some spiritual or mystical meaning. but to me, it's just a form of relaxation exercise. I don't believe in any of Hindu mumbo jumbo

if that's kind of practices is what u mean by spirituality and nothing else.. I think its cool.

or u can create a topic and let's talk about what u really believe in.

lol....you called me atheist.

I remember Yoga and Chakra of Hinduism. I love practising those for fun.

I created some threads to express myself. But nairaland atheist are for derailing and diverting topic. There tool is asking mockery and silly questions. Though those that asked direct questions were served with answers.

I dont believe in Spirituality or God. I know it.

Cheers man

macof: It's more appropriate to call Ifa a method of spirituality. Ifa is nt religion, but is a central part of the Yoruba religion, so many non-yorubas have been introduced to Ifa. Ifa is a system of divination, a way to seek and find knowledge, Ifa deals with life in relation to the spiritual. So Ifa is definitely nt a religion

What exactly is Yoruba religion?

nnofaith: Nice re-branding! olodumare is now "energy" . what a load of bull.

lol.

White man slave.

What is the concept of God in buddhism? Monster huh? Just come clean, you and your nairaland atheist league hate the word God. You nothing but 'professional atheist' as tagged by einstein

9jadelta: so, kukumo is a name of a sickle sell patient? you Yorubas have names for everything
by the way, if Yorubas have herbs and concortions for sickle sell, it is still pure science and it has nothing to do with spirituality or whatever. unesle they cured his sickle sell with some sort unexplainable magic.
I will advice you to learn about the herbs/concortion I won't mind joining u in the research. there are many sickle sell patients that needs that herb. we can repackage it or resell the idea to a good pharmaceutical company and be rich in no time

we call it Abiku. After the medicine has been used, the patient are called with names to identify them. Names like kokumo, remilekun, okuta, etc

I can remember I explained this to those that want to learn and question other folks view. And im not ready for those that want to mock.

Do yourself a favor by reading through concortion for curing sickle cell http://allafrica.com/stories/200907131324.html

Spirituality is not about worshipping monsters. Spirituality is also science.

Malaria pill are in market, does that stop malaria infection? Nope. If you have sickle cell patient, seek the right path for answers

nnofaith: in other words, he wants to become an atheistic babalawo!

why do africans make a mockery of everything?!!

do you even know the meaning of babalawo?

The man who knows the secret things.


I always wish to become babalawo.


And sorry, my ancestors were naturalistic pantheist.

Pagan also mean those that dont belief in Anthropomorphic God.

Lol

ooman: yes, but one question remains ... how did this gods or Gods if you will, get their consciousness? Because consciousness is not something that can just exist, it requires billions of years natural selection....once you can answer how gods came to be, accepting the theory isnt so hard....

Good question. You really yoruba son.

God in Yoruba spirituality is different from God in the western sense.

I think im seeing the reason Ghostofsparta said nothing like God in Yoruba spirituality as per the ugly misconception of Yoruba term really make words lost it meaning.

Now, lets break the term Orisa down.

Ori = consciousness
sa = selected
therefore Orisa is selected consciousness.

Ogun is not a monster....it literally Iron. The personifing of energies or forces is to simplify comprehensive terminologies to people.

Now, according to Ifa.....everything in the universe is alive and conscious. This include the universe itself. Remember I draw this consciousness thang on your thread? Alive is not in the sense of biological life but metaphysical activeness. Consciousness is not in the sense of self-aware but reactive and responsiveness.

Energy can not be created nor destroyed.....energy is active....nope?

Energy react....nope?

Everything is composed of energy.

Eledumare is the totality of energies and forces in the universe. It not a separate being.

We are made up of energies....we are part of God as we are God. Everything in the universe is God.

This is the simplest way I can explain this. Any picture here?

Logicboy03: I'm African.

Just to make things clear- I take all pagan spirituality (be it indian, japanese, british wiccan etc) to be spiritual mumbo jumbo.

Agagu was a sickle cell patient. That was why he was called kokumo. African spirituality heal sickle cell patient with herb and concortion. Your science still investigating till tomorrow. Lol.

If truely you are a man.....I CHALLENGE YOU TO PICK ghostofspata balls

ooman: and if you can relate it, it will be a good work..... you are better at that than me, considering you are already conversant in the Ifa philosophy....

omode gbon, agba gbon lafi da ile ife.

You are already conversant with science and better than I do which I really respect.


Let me break some of those things you call myth to ya. I belief you can get clearer picture here.

Obatala is not a monster but a light particle. In yoruba legend, he ignited the creation of our world........Western science teaches that all of Creation evolved from the light produced during the primal explosion at the beginning of time. Ifa teaches that all Creation evolved from the White Cloth of Obatala’s a robe.

Obatala (light) tasked Ogun (Iron) to make a chain in the belly of olokun (melt water after ice age). Ogun (iron) had been what hold the earth fast....read about Iron on wiki. The chain Ogun made is DNA in the belly of Olokun (the reason yoruba call Olokun mother of life with longest and largest breast).....

The chain used by Obatala to travel from the Realm of the Ancestors to Earth appears to be a symbolic representation of the structure used to transmit genetic information from one generation to the next. The genetic code that is used to form each species is passed through a biochemical substance called DNA. When DNA is viewed under a microscope it appears as a double helix, which is similar to the pattern of a chain. In Ifa scripture the reference to the Realm of the Ancestors includes all those Natural Forces that led to the development of human life and is not limited to human form. In Western science that DNA which exists in mammals is believed to be an extension of a chain of transmission from single cell life forms at the bottom of the ocean to complex life forms that populate the earth..........this sound more like primordial soup huh?

Lot and lot more. We dont need to curse the dark, we need to light the candle.

Op

Is Ifa a religion or spirituality?

ooman: and that is what i told him....

why cant you relate every legend in Ifa philosophy to modern science? I still find some science there

Logicboy03:
African jazz is powerful!!!


Or maybe not....I dont wanna kill the ghostofsparta

Is it all about shooting?

Ifa priest will tell you about you without knowing you.

Osanyin talks directly to person without any need of person....where is sixth generation computer pls?

Dont let me go to medicine

He got more than 6 challenges...pick one and lets check if your science overshadow spirituality.

Logicboy03: I am more advanced than you.


To add your african mumbo jumbo spirituality is regression not evolution.....devolution

You are you and I can never be you. Lol.

Enjoy your science......pick one of ghostofsparta challenge and lets see which is superb between science and spirituality.

Still wondering why you guys are scared of challenge

macof: dats wat folykaze is doing. He is looking into African spirituality to figure out his points for atheism

How i wish logicboy can understand this.

Oga logic.....let your mind evolve.

aManFromMars: Don't let Folykaze get you.

he is making some senses to his level of understanding. Yoruba son will speak for yoruba philosophy. Speak for Igbo bra