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See below, scientific proof you don't have free will!

MaxInDHouse, Janosky, LordReed, DeepSight,
tctrills, Dtruthspeaker, Everyday247, Ruke1990, sonmvayina

tctrills:
So the bible never explains what made Judas evil. He listened to the preachings of Jesus Christ everyday. Remember Christ called he a devil. Satan hears the preaching everyday yet he remains in his evil way. Judas was a devil so we don't expect more from him.

I mean, why was he marked as evil even before he was born, and how was it his fault?

tctrills:
I don't understand your first question.
But to the second, what really is repentance? It's more than saying I am sorry. Paul spoke about Godly sorrow. I believe, just like the devil, it is possible to go beyond that there is no coming back.
Remember, there are some that will not receive forgiveness in this world or in the world to come.

Well, God knows everything. - knows us before we were born, knows us at the end of our yet-to-be-lived life, and knows everything in-between.
I mean repentance like the robber at crucifixion.

Everyday247:
Well if you put it that way, it doesn't make sense.

MaxInDHouse:
That's exactly what he is insinuating!

Insinuating ke. Why don't you ask yourself how you can have free will if God knows everything?

tctrills:
Remember Jeremiah 1:5

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Life did not begin at birth. God knew us before our mothers gave birth to us, even before the world began. So prophets and men of God are not chosen randomly.

One more verse.
Ephesians 1:4, "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love".

God's knowledge and relationship with us is even older than Genesis 1.1
So don't be surprised that he also knew Judas.
He knew that the assignment to betray Jesus could only be given to one who is completely evil, A devil, as Jesus called him in John 6.

Very well-said. But then, what is Judgement judging? Also, if Judas had repented at the last minute, where would we be today?

tctrills:
Yes, God has given us free will. It is the freedom to choose between good and evil. Now, was there ever the slightest chance that Judas would not betray Jesus?
This is a much more technical question. I do not have a straightforward answer, but I see a clue in something Jesus Christ said.
John 6:70
“Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

So even before choosing Judas, Christ knew he was evil and had evil intentions.

Again, we read,

John 17:12:
Jesus, in his prayer to the Father, mentions Judas, saying, "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

The phrase son of perdition, also appears in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, referring to the Antichrist:

“…that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

So we can tell that Judas was chosen for the task because he was evil. He had given his soul to the devil, and what the devil does is that he robs us of our freedom. He takes away our power to choose the right.

Judas was lost beyond recovery, marked by his betrayal, and fulfilling prophecy as one doomed to eternal judgment.

Quite erudite, except for WHY. Why was Judas evil? And could he have been redeemed by someone preaching to him?

Maximus692:
The highlighted dismantle your lies!

It means what we are taught growing up that formed our foundation view of things NOT teaching JW to an Iman in Suadi Arabia steeped in Islam all his life!

Meanwhile what do you think of this:
Romans 8:29-30 (ESV):
> "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

MaxInDHouse:
Father and Son simply means one is higher as in superior to the other! John 14:28

HOW does this preclude Jesus from being God incarnate??

LordReed:
LoLz. Gosh you are terrible at this. So you don't know that each version is a fresh translation of whatever manuscripts (especially if they just found previously undiscovered manuscripts) that are available for the books? Dude, I beg you go read up on this and stop embarrassing yourself with this display of ignorance.

Did you write "previously undiscovered manuscript"? I thought you said a committee sat and compiled the Bible - ala king James?

Maximus692:
Conscience is natural we all have it but then it could be trained like a tree that we water only God's word can do that yet even with the little you are given nobody can compel you to do certain things if you are normal!

I want you to use your own reasoning to see why salvation cannot be through works mainly. It has to be mainly a gift because...

(Let me see if you're smart enough to complete the statement)

Maximus692:
At least God will never ever lie! Titus 1:2

So when God said:

“This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.” Matthew 17:5

He meant we should listen to His son whom he sent {John 3:16-18} not himself!

How does this relate to the fact that your brain is waaaay too limited to reason God? You don't determine God by reasoning but by evidence. We know Jesus is God incarnate from all that happened with him and NOT because we sat down and used our extremely limited brain to do calculations!

LordReed:
He sure requires something. Urgently.

If I needed such I'd be an igtheist!😅

Maximus692:
Conscience is inbuilt in all humans that's why two brothers do argue or quarrel over matters and stop deceiving yourself there is no human society where people don't live by conscience otherwise there won't be laws guiding inhabitants!

And what determines who'd live by conscience abd who'd not - all thise things I listed, none of which you chose!

MaxInDHouse:
Just imagine!

Making God's word a laughing stock due to your presumptuousness.

How can God predestine people and at the end punish them for playing their roles according to the script given them?

Everyday247:
Well if you put it that way, it doesn't make sense.

My friend, a child is born a clean slate except that he is given a certain kind of brain and a basic personality - none of which he chose. Going forward his choices will 100% depend on where and to whom he was born, what he was taught, and his environment growing up - none of which he chose!

MaxInDHouse:
LIE!

God judges by what people know not what they don't know so if someone is a Muslim, Traditionalist, Buddhist, Judaist or Atheist all his life but live by conscience {Romans 2:14-15} God will grant such a person RESURRECTION. Act 24:15
So it's only those who deliberately choose to be evil that God will not recall! Psalms 9:17

.
And HOW will they live by conscience if they're born into an environment were they're taught it's wrong to do so and all the powerful people they knew never did such?

MaxInDHouse:
Hen nah!

I too accept Jesus is not God because he was begging God with tears to save him:


During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. ‭Hebrews 5:7 NIV‬

That's exactly what I was saying - you are using your puny human brain to reason God. How do you know what God is supposed to do and not do?

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ you have no faith at all you're just arguing blindly!

We have Jehovah's Witnesses in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran and all Muslim countries in fact they find us to be loving and peaceful neighbors because we don't drag political appointments with them unlike your people!

And you have some who'd NEVER be JW because of the type of brain they were given and the kind of person they were given to be - which they never chose!

Everyday247:
I still don't understand

What don't you understand? He's asking you to justify Yaweh

... the deliberate disemination of falsehood by Yahweh, I am interested in looking also at some of the other interesting attributes of this deity.

A key one is extreme brutality.

Genocide, and brutal injunctions to stoning to death in odd circumstances.

Start with Genocidal Commands -

Wikipedia -

Deuteronomy 7 is notable because it contains one of the most overt instances of God ordering the Israelites to commit genocide against neighboring societies.

1. When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations -- the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you --

2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons,

4 for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you.

5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire. (Deut 7.1-5)

However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy them -- the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites -- as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God. (Deut 20.16ff)

Later Yahweh admonishes the Israelites for not killing each and every inhabitant in these lands.

MaxInDHouse:
Stop deceiving yourself none of these determines people's decision regarding faith. What determines whether you will become a believer in Christ or not is RIGHTEOUSNESS and HUMILITY! Zephaniah 2:2-3

RIGHTEOUSNESS will make you think twice before you treat preachers badly knowing they came in God's name! Romans 10:15

HUMILITY will help you accept they knew better than you do!

And mind you i was a Muslim before i met Jehovah's Witnesses the true believers in Christ!

And what determines RIGHTEOUSNESS and HUMILITY?? Same things you never chose - where you were born, to whom, circumstances you grew up in, plus the kind of brain and personality you were given!

MaxInDHouse:
But you knew it all àbí?

Where did I say that? Did I not say in the OP that I accepted Jesus as God incarnate NOT from my own reasoning but because how things happened with him - because there's a lot I don't know

MaxInDHouse:
Lie!
Among Jehovah's Witnesses we have all kinds of people in different conditions and nations and class and races who have chosen to be Witnesses of Jehovah due to the global campaign of the kingdom of our God! Act 1:8

Ok, see below. How can someone given a stubborn brain that finds it very hard to accept new things convert from Islam to JW in Saudi Arabia??

MaxInDHouse:
Na wah o!
Abeg go for a home Bible study with Jehovah's Witnesses!

Jesus said:

And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14

Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit Matthew 28:19

But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.” Act 1:8

Do you believe in Jesus?

I asked you a simple question. If you were born in Saudi Arabia would you be a Christian? And even if you would, won't it be dependent on what type of person you are, what type of brain you have, and what you were taught growing up - none of which you chose!

MaxInDHouse:
The world doesn't support truth from time immemorial so faithful people don't follow aimless croud! Exodus 23:1-2
Those telling you that are they believers in God?
What do they conclude is God's name?
Are they organized to preach about God's Kingdom as Jesus commanded his disciples?

Ọmọ you are following a faithless croud that has evil intentions!

Extreme believers in fact. Which is why they had to dig out the truth. You have to know that JW never consisted of very educated people. Charles Russel left school at 14. So you wouldn't expect them to know better. But you know better

MaxInDHouse:
So why arguing since saying people don't accept what you are saying?
Why not give up since God has destined everything?

Walahi talahi Satan nah deceiver!

Did you read? There's a lot you don't know and a lot you'll never know that you never knew

Ruke1990:
old testament prophecy did not name the actor. But it states what must happen. Satan entered the fittest person. And amongst the disciples Judas was the greediest and fittest for the task. There is a bible prophecy about Cyrus a persian king who freed Israelites from slavery in Babylon. The prophesy mentioned his name clearly before he was born and the action he will carry out which is rebuilding the temple in Jerusalem. The spiritual determines the physical. But there are times, God steps in just out of mercy to deliver us from going wrong way. For example, Jesus told Peter, Satan desired you that he might sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you. That tells you satan could have liked to use Peter instead of Judas or maybe desired him to play some other bad roles but the mercy of God helped him overcome. As a person, be steadfast in loving God just like Peter physically was. That can help because God knows your heart and knows if you are sincere. Your sincerity is one thing that draws God's merciful hands to you. David killed Uriah, committed adultery but admitted his sin, cried sincerely when he was approached by the prophet and that brought mercy
Of God. God called him a man after his heart. Saul sinned against God, prophet Samuel rebuked him but he showed no remorse. Rather he rebuked the prophet for not honoring him in front of the people. That man lost it and died with out mercy. Do you know jesus warned Judas hours before the betrayal, Judas was stubborn and went ahead and that was the end. Whether there is a negative or positive prophesy or predestination, God always gives us a chance to change that negative prophecy. Everyone does get a warning before they are damned. Like you right now you have been warned about the existence of hell by countless believers but you fit harden your heart right now and still land in hell. Do you call that predestination? No. You had a chance to change the course of destiny but you did not. The bible predestination is actually about the fact that we have all been chosen destined to partake in the divine / godly nature from the foundation of the world (before Satan came). Though Adam destroyed that. But Jesus came to restore us back to this foreordained destiny that God had in mind for us all at the creation. However, only those who believes in Jesus will eventually partake of that divine nature

And what made him the greediest person? Where he was born, to whom, circumstances he grew up in, plus the kind of brain and personality he was given - none of which was chosen by him!

LordReed:
LoLz. What is this? This doesn't make sense to me. Is me sitting in a room supposed to be remarkable?

Things always end up happening how they were meant to happen.
Example, God would never have left such a momentous part of his plan to the fickle mind of Judas. Yet Judas must have tossed and turned all night trying to make a decision!

DeepSight:
It is arrogance to presume that no one else does.

I didn't presume anything. I just want them to first have a crack at it

DeepSight:
Doesnt this destroy your entire biblical worldview - if we have no freewill no one can be judged.

Wrong. I'll give you the correct answer in due time

MaxInDHouse:
True!
That's why we have PREACHING and TEACHING to help us choose wisely.

Did you read? The type of brain and personality and all those things listed will 100% determine your choice - none of which you chose!

MaxInDHouse:
If they don't have freewill then why are you expecting people to choose faith in what the Bible teaches?

How can someone born in Saudi Arabia choose faith in what the Bible teaches?
Same way, how can you choose to be a Muslim?

MaxInDHouse:
Stop asking this faithless question!

If nobody has control over choice to do God's will then God is to blame not those who chose to be evil!

There's no blame. God's plan is simply unfolding.
Once you know this you'd stop worrying, or regretting, or working too hard. You'd not be in extreme of things because there's a lot you don't know and a lot you'll never know that you never knew

Everyday247:
you're asking me a religious question?

I think yes from my perspective.

You really think there is a chance God would leave such a monumental and momentous part of his plan to the whims of the fickle mind of a man?