₦airaland Forum

FRANCISTOWN:
You make me laugh this early morning.
Einstein was a christian and he later deconverted. As a matter of fact, many religious leader were very angry and disappointed to the extent not writing him series of letters.
Einstein did not believe in any anthropomorphic God, like you christians do.

On that note, there is no authority in atheism as it is in the religious world. Christians follow Jesus, Bishops, Pastors, prophets like puppies following their owners.
Individually, atheist don't follow any one as an authority.

Know that we don't do an appeal to authority.
If Richard Dawkin picked up a religion today? Atheists prolly won't trip. Atheism is a personal thing.

Therefore, whatever Einstein thought about a supposed "god" was only good for his own pocket. It wouldn't buy anyone a cup of coffee.

No, I'm not saying you'll follow Einstein. What I'm saying is that even Einstein a better scientist than yourselves believed in the Devine. If he later deconverted after writing what he wrote, it shows the instability of scientific knowledge. The grounds keep shifting because knowledge is never perfected. If science should develop instruments capable of spiritual investigation today, all atheists would be shocked at what such instruments would discover. And of course, what would be the fate of already dead atheists who based their lives on imperfect knowledge?

Yeah, science is imperfect. It doesn't know everything. And infact, what science knows today is infinitesimally small compared to what science does not know. Why should anyone base his life on science that frequently outdates previous knowledge in the face of new discoveries rather than go on a journey of personal discovery according to the accepted rules and principles of the supernatural. If the supernatural doesn't exist, there would be no such words coined in any language.

In essence, I'm telling you that you atheists know in the innermost recesses of your minds that there's a God in the universe. You don't know who that God is and you have searched for Him using crooked means which brought you no result. In the end, you deny Him. Living in denial would not obliterate reality. It is dangerous to deny an ubiquitous reality on mere personal terms. The consequences can be dangerous.

lordreed

Aemmyjah:
You've not answered my question sir
Why are you dogmatic?

Oh, I never knew you expected a straight answer for the question.

Yes, academically speaking, if any part of your writing is considered to bear a striking similarity with any other part of a prewritten work, you'll be accused of plagiarism.

Aemmyjah:
Let's imagine something similar
I, Aemmy write about someone who existed 5000 years ago and quoted something he said at the time. Let's call him MaxInDHouse
Someone else named FxMasterz who lived about 100 or 200 years ago write about the same person, MaxInDHouse
But MaxInDHouse lived 5000 years ago. Where did FxMasterz and CO get the information of what MaxInDHouse said?
Is it by chance that they received such information or from another source or writing?
Would my writing, though similar necessarily mean that I copied from FxMasterz?

That is my point. Thank you

It's simple.

Jude certainly read that book. Every religious person in Israel at the time must have read that book. Even the Lord Jesus probably read it too. The book was in circulation in those days. It was never blacklisted by the people of those days. They may have better understanding of the source more than we do. We might have lost the source but they knew better than us.

It isn't a mere coincidence that Jude quoted it word for word. There was no oral tradition regarding Enoch. Jude was not writing that verse of Scripture prophetically. Otherwise he would have said it. Rather he quoted it as though he expected his audience to know what he was talking about. He was fully aware that his audience already knew about that prophecy. It shows from the tone and context of the passage. He didn't start explaining to them regarding the source of his words. His audience knew very well about that prophecy otherwise it would have looked so weird, and questions would have been raised about the source of jude's idea.

We do not have any authority regarding the source of the book of Enoch. We can only logically conclude that it's of questionable origin. But that would be as far as logic can carry us. We have no evidence. But even during the days of Christ, the book of Enoch was quite popular. It was a well known book among the Jews.

StormInc:
Lol. That's the point, All the Christians are following Christ who is the Way, the truth and the life. But they are still holding different beliefs about that same Jesus.

All children of the same father can keep claiming childship of that father while having different opinions of the same father. Is that the basis for division in a family?

All christians are in different stages of the knowledge of God. And as a result of different levels of knowledge, there are denominations. Each denomination grows leaving previous doctrines behind and begin to align with new doctrines as new lights unfold. For example, most of what Baptists, Anglicans, Methodists, etc rejected in pentecostal doctrines years ago are now being accepted as scriptural truths. They now believe in virtually the same things because of new lights.

There's no division among the children of God. Even though we may differ in doctrines due to varying degrees of knowledge. We love one another as brethren and see ourselves as being one body in Christ. So there's CAN as well as the the PFN. These are Christian Bodies where the body of Christ come together as one in spite of doctrinal differences.

While you may see sunni and shite Muslims fighting and killing each other as a result of division in their midst, you cannot see such in Christiendom. All religions having various sects fight violently among themselves but not Christians because we are one even though we may have differing opinions about certain things we read in the Bible.

Atheists like lordreed, jaephoenix, maynman, francistown, knownunknown, hopefullandlord, etc would avoid this thread like a plague.

I really pity you guys. May God be merciful unto you.

Aemmyjah:
Oga
Calm down
Jude quoted Enoch
The writers of the book of Enoch wrote the book about 100 or 200 years before Jude
But Enoch himself lived about 5000 years earlier
Where did those writers get the information from about the life of someone who lived 5000 years ago?
Answer

Why are you arguing something no one is arguing with you? Do you enjoy arguing with yourself?

Where those writers copied from is not the question. And I'm saying this for the umpteenth time.

The question is where did Jude copy from since there was no oral tradition about Enoch in Judaism.

Aemmyjah:
The bible does not state
😎

That's the truth.

The Bible didn't state. But when you find the same words in another book by the same person that was quoted, what does that imply? Remember there's no oral tradition about Enoch as a person.

Aemmyjah:
Where did Jude say he quoted from?

He didn't mention did he? All we knew is that he quoted Enoch and we found the same words of Enoch in a certain book that was in circulation in the time of Jude.

Aemmyjah:
Samuel and Joshua made reference to the Book of Jasher
Jude did not mention any book of Enoch
Again, answer me, where did the writers of the book of Enoch get the information of what Enoch said about 5000 years ago?
From the air?

You're attempting a serious digression. How many times would I have to tell you that the source the writers of Enoch is not what we're discussing here.

Jude quoted Enock word for word. There's no other place in the entire universe where the word Jude quoted was written. It's not even in the oral tradition of the Jews. The only place that word has existed is the book of Enoch. Tell us where Jude quoted from without attempting a digression or trying I to play the game of assumptions.

Aemmyjah:
He did not copy any book. Did he?
Where did the writers of Enoch got their information from about what Enoch said and did (Enoch that existed about 5000 years earlier). Who did these writers quote or reference? Or na imagination?

Forget about the writers of Enoch. You should keep a discussion on track without digressing.

Where did Jude quote from ?

Aemmyjah:
Jude could have quoted from a fictitious source and it will be among the books of the Bible?

You're digressing.

I'm not concerned about whether the source is fictitious or not. Where did Jude quote from? Please stop assuming.

Aemmyjah:
It could be under inspiration
Or it was known among the Jews[

Where did the writers of Enoch get information from? Especially regarding a man who lived 5000 years ago

The bolded indicates that you're still based on assumptions.

I have no issue with the writer of the book of Enoch. It's not a special book to me as a person. If you are worried about the source of the writers, you can apply the same logic you're applying to Jude - "They could have written it under inspiration or it was known among the Jews."

Where did Jude quote from if there's in the name of the same person he's quoting which carries the same statements he made word for word?

Aemmyjah:
The book of Enoch is said to have been written at about 100-200BCE... That is about 5000 years after Enoch lived. I guess the writers quote him from the air then. Where did they get the source from?

Wherever the writers wrote from is not anyone's concern. How could Jude have quoted same book word for word? That's the question.

OLAADEGBU:
Why don't you watch the videoclips posted in the OP and educate yourself instead of arguing blindly?

Alright then.

Aemmyjah:
Ezra, Moses, and Luke already wrote that Enoch was 7th in line from Adam while compiling the genealogies. They must have likely known or heard some things that some of those people did or said even though they may not have been part of the sacred scriptures.
Joshua and Samuel made reference to the Book of Jasher
Jude did not
The writers of the Book of Enoch wrote it about 5000 years after the existence of Enoch. Where did they get the information from?

You see the bolded part? Assumptions!!

The Book of Enoch having a fictitious source does not imply that nobody can quote from it.

Please tell us where Jude quoted from with all authority.

OLAADEGBU:
The evidence has been presented in court it is up to you to go there and prove that the evidence is not tenable. Christians are not meant to cover evil and diabolical acts unless you are saying you are just as guilty.

What evidence has been tendered in court? I'm not aware of such evidences. Educate me if I've missed anything.

Aemmyjah:
Where he quoted Enoch from is not significant
. The book of Enoch was written several thousands of years after Enoch death. Where did the writers get the information from?

Where he quoted Enock from is significant. He didn't quote him from the air.

The book of Enoch was in circulation at the time of Jude. Jude claimed he was quoting Enoch in a particular statement of his. Where could he have quoted Enoch from?

Aemmyjah:
All those referenced or quoted from the Bible had a book written for them?
Enoch gave a very powerful, prophetic judgement against his contemporaries and that judgement has a greater fulfillment that will be done soon and Jehovah himself had it preserved down to our own time. It could have been passed either orally or written or James got the inspiration from Jesus or God himself.
Book of Enoch, a book written in the 2nd ir 1st CE is not written by Enoch or his contemporary

There's no evidence that Jude got the text from oral tradition. Infact, there's no such oral tradition in Judaism.

He quoted Enoch.directly without insinuating that he heard it from Jesus. He said "Enock the 7th from Adam prophesied..."

Where did he get Enoch's prophecy from? Your answers shouldn't be based on assumptions.

Aemmyjah:
Jude indicated he was quoting Enoch words, not a book of Enoch. Did Jude mention book of Enoch, the book of Enoch was written between 200 and 100 BCE. How did that writer get the information on what Enoch said?

What concerns anyone about the writer and his source in this argument?

You're the one that should tell us where Jude quoted Enoch from.

OLAADEGBU:
If you’ve got any evidence to counter this woman’s accusation please supply it, there’s no need to get sentimental.

If you've got any evidence to establish this woman's allegations, please supply it. There's no need to get sentimental.

Also, be mindful of the fact that I have nothing to do with Olukoya. My position is based on what I know of him. I would take the same stand with Kumuyi too if he were the one accused.

A Christian should defend the faith without any bias.

Aemmyjah:
Oga
Go and read the book of Enoch first
Nowhere did Jude reference to the Book of Enoch

Denial won't settle the matter.

Please tell me where Jude quoted Enoch from. At least he referenced Enoch.

Aemmyjah:
Show us where the Bible says Jude quoted from the Book of Enoch?

So, where did Jude quote from?

Enoch chapter 1: 9 reads,

“And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones to execute judgment upon all, and to destroy all the ungodly: and to convict all flesh of all the works of their ungodliness which the ungodly have committed, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”


Jude 1:14 reads:

“And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

Where did Jude take the prophecy of Enoch from? Jude explicitly indicated he was quoting Enoch. Where did he quote Enoch from?

BoldBrainz:
Seeing how you're all-knowing na, abi?

We know him from his early days. He started out as a very upright minister of the gospel.

If you have any practical experience with him to the contrary, let the expose begin with you. As for me, I'm talking as far as I know. You and I are human, we can make wrong judgements.

OLAADEGBU:
You have spoken well.

Because he's not talking about Kumuyi?

Tell me you're a Kumuyian and not a Christian. You're openly supporting an antichristian individual because he's talking about another Christian? Who doesn't know Olukoya as a very upright man even from the early days of his ministry?

BoldBrainz:
I have no idea about this lady's issue with Daniel Olukoya of MFM, but you see that Pastor and his church? The day an exposé will be done on him and the activities going on behind the scenes of his ministry, TB Joshua's episode is going to be a joke.

Olukoya is not TB Joshua. Nothing, absolutely nothing is going on behind any scene.

Aemmyjah:
Enoch himself wrote a book?

No one ever said that.

Aemmyjah:
that book of Enoch is a fanciful work of uncertain origin, falsely attributed to Enoch

Jesus quoted mostly from the Psalms and Prophet Isaiah.

R. C. H. Lenski notes: “We ask: ‘What is the source of this patchwork, the Book of Enoch?’ This book is an accretion, and nobody is sure of the dates of its various parts . . . ; nobody can be sure that some of its expressions were not, perhaps, taken from Jude himself.”

The book of Enoch is generally believed to have been written between 200 and 100 BCE. Could you say that is a work of the man who the Bible described as the seventh in line from Adam? 🤷‍♂️

We know.

What I'm telling you is that Jude quoted from it. We're not talking about the Book's origin.

Aemmyjah:
There are places where Bible authors make references to books not included in the Bible
Jude was referencing to what Enoch said, not a book. If Jude was referencing to Noah, will you say there was a certain book of Noah.

The scriptures Jesus mentioned included the pentateuch, the Psalms, Proverbs and the prophets. We still have them today.
The ones you have in the NT were written by the Apostles after his ascension

I am telling you Jude quoted the Book of Enoch word for word. Or are you just answering me for the purpose of argument?

Enock lived about 4,000yrs before Jude, how could Jude have quoted Enock word for word if not from a written book?

Again, the Bible as we have it today was not in existence is Christ's day. What scriptures did Christ refer to at the time?

Aemmyjah:
Bible authors makes reference to some books, letters and chronicles. Still they are not part of the sacred scriptures.
There is no reference to the book of Enoch in the Bible. Only a reference to who he is, his genealogical line and what he may have done or said

He was showing you that Jude quoted that verse in Jude 1:14 from the Book of Enoch. Jude actually quoted it word for word

Remember that when Christ said search the scriptures, the Bible as we have it today was not yet collated. We must look exactly into the scriptures that were available at the time Jesus spoke, as well as the scriptures of the New Testament that came as a result of Jesus' works.

Raydos:
That is still wrong!!

Even Google is wrong, There are lot of bullshits on Google!


Leopard is Ẹkun
Cheetah is Amotekun

The meaning of "Amotekun" in literal meaning is, "The one who looks like Ẹkun" (Àmọ́tẹ́kùn)

It's because of the striking resemblance between Leopard and cheetah!


Leopard is the Ẹkun
Cheetah is Amotekun (The one who looks Like Ẹkun)


Tiger in the other hands does not exist in Yoruba land, Not even in Africa, So there is no way we will have a name for what doesn't exist on our side!!


But the name given given to Tiger recently is Ògìdán

So
Tiger — Ògìdán


Ọwawa is another animal entirely!

But cat is Ogidan.

Raydos:
Wrong!

I apologize for the slight error.

Tiger is Ekun

Leopard is Amotekun

Cheetah is Owawa