₦airaland Forum

PoliteActivist:
Anybody who can reach Seun, please tell him to tell his "Antispam bot" (wink, wink) to stop banning me for absolutely no reason. Ought not there be a rhyme or reason to banning people? Or is it that the whole affair is child's play? Or is it because atheists are losing? I am just a disinterested, unbiased umpire presenting the FACTS!! Just the logical FACTS, nothing else!

Seun, kindly soften the ban intensity of your antispam bots from high to low. The bans can be sometimes annoying when one has done virtually nothing wrong. If you've customized your bots against Politeactivist, please free the man. If atheists are loosing, then their souls are gaining. We who have vivid spiritual experiences with God can already tell with 100% assurance the ultimate destination of a Godless soul.

Minsk24:
The main one for me is waking up with 3 razor-like marks on different parts of the body, this even in areas that are impossible to reach while sleeping,coz sometimes we inadvertently scratch ourselves while sleeping, but these ones are always in straight lines,and i even had hairs on my leg shaved, and these marks appeared there ..
This has been my biggest experience....
I also have had lucid dreams and reach the vibrational stage of astral projection...

That sounds familiar.

I have a friend called Ola, a Muslim convert who became a Christian after denouncing ẹiyẹ cult in the then Saint Andrews College of Education, Oyo. He had so many spiritual attacks. We couldn't tell whether the attacks were from his angry Muslim family or from the ẹiyẹ cult where he had spiritual allegiance through blood covenants.

He had to sleep over in my house one day. We slept in the same room, only to wake up to see blood in his palms from blade cuts. Straight lines from blades oozing out with blood. I was shocked. He told me that the experience was not his first.

We had no blades in the room. No one knows how he got the marks. This matter happened in the year 2000.

Minsk24:
I am an agnostic and have experienced spiritual stuffs, the major problem is that spirituality and science are yet to merge, when this happens, we will have a clearer understanding of spirituality

Would you kindly describe your supernatural or metaphysical experiences in brief?

sonmvayina:
It is really good to be back.

I was almost blind in both eyes, as I could barely see for the past few months. But thanks to the ingenuity and wisdom of the Indians. They came up with curative solutions to health issues..
I can see now

Just like my creator intended...Thanks to the creator forgiving them the wisdom and to the Indians for putting it into use .

My topic today is a very controversial one .can the J man be the sacrificial lamb and the high priest at the same time?
This is one aspect of Christianity that the adherents are too lazy to confront. But for me it is all bollocks and more lies from the Christian scriptures..

Any explanation?

Why can't He be both?

malcom1X:
See the difference

Wawu!

AntiChristian:
Yeah, who are they?

As regards the 24 Elders with Yahweh:
1. Of what importance is God having son and 24 elders among his council? Why do God need them?
2. Who are the 24 elders?
3. When were they created?
4. What are their names?
5. Of what essence are they?
6. Can they die?
7. Can they eat and reproduce?
8. Are they like God?
9. Do they sing, clap and dance in worship like Christians do today?
10. Do they pay tithe?
11. Are they Christians since they worship God too?
12. Do they believe Jesus died as God too?
13. Did Jesus ever mentioned them on Earth?
14. Were they mentioned by any other person in the Old testament?
15. How do they look like? Like angels, Cherubs, humans, etc?
16. Where does Jesus and the Spirit sit in the council? On the right or left of the father?

We don't have much details about the 24 Elders. TenQ has accurately told you what they do in heaven according to the limited information the Bible provides about them. God, for His own purposes decided not to reveal much details about them because He knows the details wouldn't be useful to us. The useful details we have is that these 24 Elders are men, they're not angels.

I personally perceive that the 24 Elders consist of the 12 rulers of the physical Israel, as well as 12 rulers of the spiritual Israel to make 24. They're most probably a representative of all saints in all ages and dispensations.

However, the matter regarding the 24 Elders shouldn't concern you. What you should be concerned about is the eternal destination of your soul after leaving earth. TenQ has asked you some important questions. Please answer them truthfully. Don't end your journey on earth holding on to a lie.

Qasim6:
Being a trinitarian is the worst thing that can happen to any one that believe in God.

You are even trying hard to poke holes into the concept of Oneness of God, the concept adhered by Abraham, Moses and Jesus.

As daft as you are, you want to destroy the fact that Allah is God almighty, even your god call his God Elaha, and Arab Christians call God Allah.

My guy, u can only keep exposing ursef as the semi-pagan that you are.

He's not destroying the fact that Allah is God Almighty, he's asking you questions that challenges the fact. If you think he has destroyed that fact, that's only because you have no answer to the questions that have challenged the Almightiness of Allah. And Allah's Almightiness remains destroyed until you can provide an answer.

What do you understand by the word 'Trinity'? I read where TenQ poised a question to Antichritian regarding the Trinity of Jesus in the Quran. Maybe you can help him answer the question because he blatantly avoided the question:

Jesus is reflected in the Quran as a Human messenger of Allah. He is also the Spirit of Allah according to the Quran. Not only that, Jesus is also the Word of Allah as expressed by your Quran. Can you practically explain this obvious Trinity without deviating? How's one Person Human, Spirit and Word at the same time?

This is another poser to you: I'm sure you believe that man has both spirit and body. That means man is a duality. What makes it difficult then for you to grasp the notion that God is a Trinity?

Matrix137:
Where do i even start from in response?

You are mixing alot of things up and getting me confused.

What exactly is your point?

No need honouring kobojunkie with an answer. He's demon possessed. He needs deliverance. Everyone on Nairaland knows this this of him.

FRANCISTOWN:
I know what Yahweh said about himself, that he is a jealous childish god that visits the sins of the father on his children, he is a killer, an insecure megalomanic entity and so on.


You and MaxInDHouse are just so much alike. Y'all believe everybody knew Yahweh through what was taught to them. You may actually not know the bible fairy character called Yahweh as much as I do.
I graduated from the Eucharist class when I was 5. My mom bought me the bible, New Testament when I was 7.
I was an altar server and I did my first confirmation by 11. By that time I had already read the new testament from Matthew to Revelation about 22times, The old testament, Genesis to Malachi 1½ time and several relevant materials on the christian faith. At 18 I had already left Catholicism and I was an assistant cell leader , a prayer warrior and in an Evangelism Unit.

At 25 I had already read the New Testament more than 40 times, and more than 120books pertaining to the christian faith with lengthy days of serious fasting and meditation.
I wanted to be a Priest in the Holy Roman Catholic Church before I read what took me out of catholicism. Then I wanted to be a pastor before I became an agnostic first.

So brother, I can tell you authoritatively that there is nobody on this earth that can tell me anything new or different about Yahweh.
I know about that character in toto.

You saying I knew of Yahweh based on what I was taught as a kid is the highest level of ignorance anyone can display. That statement is too big for your mouth. I repeat too big.



Go back and read your bible. Jesus the son of your God said

^{“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him" -Matt 11:27}
Every pronoun that was used in the bible was the masculine pronoun. And Jesus who knew Yahweh called him father. Oh! Are you saying Jesus didn't know the gender of his father?
This argument is even irritating, everyone knows that the biblical god is a "He". Same as Allah his adulterated version.
So please don't argue about this. It makes you sound very stupid.

Everything you said down there, I've already addressed them in my previous threads. And the answers can't contain this block, so please
go thru this thread:
I naked Yahweh finish for that thread.

https://www.nairaland.com/7593172/eternal-synagogue-civilized-atheist-movement#121401944

It's one thing to know the Bible, it's a other thing to for the Bible to be revealed to you.

Your boasting is out of self pride. I read the completely at the age of 7, and I've read the Bible from cover to cover uncountable times.

Your ideologies about God are nothing but childish motions of God. Your so called reading of the Bible didn't change such notions. They were maintained all through because you read without Revelation.

2 3:17

"..always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth."

The difference between us both is Revelation. That's what you lacked. And I'm not surprised because you were learning about God in a repackaged Babylonian cult called Roman Catholicism. You were never a Christian!

Yes, Jesus can call God Father. Is the term 'Father' reflected of any gender? How does that term relate to God being a male? Now, tell me how Jesus to call His Father in an expression towards men if God was neither male nor female. Please tell me the pronoun or noun Jesus should have used.

God created Adam in His image and took Eve out of Adam. Therefore Adam was previously He + She before the She was separated from the He. Hence God in whose image Adam was originally created is neither He nor She. If this sounds stupid to you, then you lack understanding. God is Man + Woman. There's no human gender denotation for such. So, God is neither He nor She. We refer to Him as a He because the 'He' is the more predominant character in both pronouns. That's why Jesus clearly stated in that scripture you quoted that No one knows the father except Himself. Yet, you're here bragging that you know Yahweh. Lol. We all know Him only to the limit of our knowledge and language expression.

If you have oppossing views to the other things I wrote, then enumerate them here. I wouldn't go over to the other thread to comment on the things I responded to you here for.

JigsawKillah:
You'd have to torture a confession out of me though. I don't blame the wife. But the man should have kept his mouth shut and spend lowkey.

He thought his wife loved him and would therefore celebrate his success and admire his wisdom.

Mrperfecto:
I will just be brief without writing too much, we are based we have 4 children, my first child is 13 from my previous relationship, she has become very terrible , she doesn't listen to me or my wife. She tells her that she is not her biological mother and she cannot control her. She had threatened to call the police on my wife telling her if she touch her she will fight her back and call the police. She goes to school and closes at 3.45 her school is 10 mins walk from home, but she is always late for home she comes home around 6 sometimes 7pm , as I am writing now every friday she closes at 12.30 but she is still hasn't come back home yet. I am on my way to work I start at 6.30pm till 2.30am so I rarely get to see her and she only misbehaving when I am not around. So far we have seized her phone because we had found so many inappropriate messages exchanges between her and boys , we had also removed the TV from her room and her behaviour has gotten worse , she is behaving like she's possessed. My wife and I are fed up even her siblings are tired of her we want to send her back to Nigeria maybe in a boarding school until she is 18 in order to protect her younger ones , if we keep her and she continues with her terrible behaviour I may beat her badly and we may end up loosing all 4 children to the authorities. Please what advice will you give to me concerning this issue?

Please, if everything you've known of the girl's terrible behavior are all based on reports from your wife and her kids, I plead with you to investigate the matter well before making any decision. Since you're not always at home, there's high probability that your wife and her kids are cooking up stories about the girl because they consider her as not being part of them, hence, they must get rid of her. I am talking from experience. In matters like these, do not trust anyone. Investigate, and confirm the reports before drawing any inference.

If the reports are found to be true, or if what you've written also include your own first hand experience with the girl, then it's advisable for you to send her back to Nigeria. The boarding school idea is not good enough as many boarding schools would add to the child's dilemma. Anyone who has attended a boarding school in Nigeria during his school days would never pray for his kids to be there.

Put her up with a disciplinarian family member here in Nigeria. Not just any family member. Such a girl needs iron hands. She must be subdued. If the disciplinarian you know is not buoyant enough to add another human under his roof, please be responsible for her financial well being while she is with the chosen family member. Some girls at that age can be very unbecoming. God will guide you aright.

Moresalt:
Experts or dog owners please...

Please where did you buy them? Can I get some? How much?

Ken4Christ:
I understand you clearly. Remember he has the endorsement of so many big church fathers we all know. That doesn't mean he is approved of God. But I am just being careful in my approach because there are people even within the church Ministry who are ready to kill to defend their own. I already have enough trouble. It's not everything I believe I say publicly so I can have less enemies and fulfil my ministry with the least persecutions from those who are supposing to lead by example.

Without adding 'apostle' to his name, you're not offending anyone. The title is not always necessary in written contents. Take for example, Billy Graham, David Oyedepo, W F. Kumuyi, Reinhard Bonkke, Morris Cerullo, Rod Parsley, etc. I listed all those names without adding any title, and yet it means nothing to anybody. There's nothing abnormal about that.

Pastor Adeboye for instance usually has the title 'Pastor' in his name only because, his first name 'Enoch' is not known by many. So, if you say 'Enoch Adeboye' without saying 'Pastor Adeboye' many people might not know who you're talking about.

When you say Johnson Suleiman, it carries no offence to anybody. When you add the term 'apostle', it becomes your personal endorsement. Mention his name without the title. Let the reader decide whether he is an apostle or not.

By constantly using the term 'apostle' in his name, you further make a mockery your post.

Ken4Christ:
He says he is. I will just give him that respect. But I will not sit back and watch anyone preach or teach damnable doctrines. We all have the responsibility to protect weak souls.

Do you remember there are false Apostles? No true apostle of Christ would bring the scriptures into disrepute.

No one becomes an apostle just because he says he is. The signature of God must be upon him.

FRANCISTOWN:
Firstly lemme tell you what a god cannot. Then we'll talk about what a god should be.

Okay, thanks for telling me your idea of what a God should be, and that's exactly who Yahweh is. You failed in your responsibility as a man to know what God has said about Himself.

Instead, your ideas are based on what you heard others say about Him. I think most of you atheists never grow your understanding of God more than what you knew of him as children. Most of what you attributed to Yahweh is false, and I'll show you your weaknesses by and by. They're childhood thoughts of God.

According to You:

1. God cannot be a he or a she (That's gender biasness). Which takes me to number 2.

The truth
God is neither man nor woman. Humans refer to Him as a man because there's no other word to describe His person. If man and woman were created in God's image, then God is neither man nor woman since both genders are the images of God. There are many things about God we don't have the human language for. We just express Him to the best of our ability. You cannot know this about God until you get closer to Him. God is actually neither He or She. Even in the Bible, God is only expressed to the best of man's comprehension. God is still not limited to what you read of Him in the Bible. You cannot really know God until you relate with Him.

According to You:

2. God cannot be anthropomorphic. That makes his on the same level with humans and with human attributes therefore.

The Truth
God created man in His image and planted His attributes in man which were later corrupted by the sin nature. For example, angels don't have feelings. They don't have emotions. They don't have anger or sympathy. They don't know what's called forgiveness or the lack of it. They were not created in God's image, so they don't have God's attributes. God deliberately put His attributes in man. Man was a glorious being created as a deputy God to rule the earth. Man was a created being higher than angels. Angels are only superior to man today because man fell. But once you regain your position in Christ, angels are at your service. Angels are beings created to serve God and man. Man has God's attributes and not God having man's attributes. In the hierarchy of things, after God, man is the next in command in the universe. He was created to behave like God Himself. A deputy God so to speak.

According to You:

i. God cannot get angry.
ii. God cannot be sad.
III. God cannot be jealous.

The Truth
Why can't God? Yes God can be angry, sad and jealous because He created indestructible beings like Himself with His own Spirit who has their own freewill. When such creations misbehave over a long period of time, God can react. Why shouldn't He?

According to You:

iv. God cannot forget things( he doesn't need remembering)

The Truth
God does not ever forget things. When you read of God talking about remembrance of things in the Bible, it doesn't imply that God has forgotten or would forget. It only implies that God is committed to His promises. Would you give me any scripture reference where God forgot something and someone had to remind Him?

According to You:

v. God cannot be a racist (he would never choose a race over the other)

The Truth
God is not a racist, He never chose any race above another. Otherwise, God wouldn't have ever been good to such people as Rehab, Naaman, Job, Ruth, Balaam, the Gibeonites, etc. God even punished the Israelites severely for attacking the Gibeonites in the days of Saul. You don't seem to understand what God did with Israel in the old testament and you didn't care to know. And you don't also understand God's position about Israel today. This can only be discussed separately.

According to You:

vi. God cannot be immature and insecure thereby constantly seeking my worship and praise to asure of himself of how great he is.

The Truth
God does not need your worship to assure Himself that He's great. God wants your worship because that's the only way you can spiritually connect with Him in your fallen state. God craves fellowship with man because man was created to be God's only friend in the universe. While God can't relate with other things He created, God can relate with man. He created man for relationship and fellowship. In man's fallen state, man cannot connect with God except through worship. Worship establishes the spiritual connection that brings about fellowship. That's the only reason why worship is important to God. Not because it makes God feel great. That's absurd. Without it man is disconnected. If you want to start experiencing God today, start worshipping.

According to You:

vii. God does not need my services, he does not need my help, he doesn't need my money, he does not need a house. He is self sufficient.

The Truth
God does not need any of those things you listed. He never said He needs them. However, when you provide these things in God's name whether for the service of man or for the help of God's ministers, you automatically create a conduit for blessings to flow towards you. God is Self-sufficient. He needs nothing but He want man to help his fellow man, and for that reason, God will bless the one who helps another. Even tithe.is clearly declared by God as means for the priests. And for taking care of the priests, God would bless the congregation.

According to You:

viii. God should be fair.

The Truth
And yes, God is extremely fair. For example, before giving the Israelites the land of Canaan, He told them that He was giving them the land because of the abomination of the inhabitants. After waiting for over 500yrs for the the abominable people to repent, He replaced them with the Israelites when they were growing more and more in their wickedness . He then warned the Israelites that even they themselves would suffer harsher punishments if they commit the same sins as the people they displaced. When Israel started to sin, God didn't even wait 500yrs for them to repent. They were already forewarned. He judged them with more severe punishments than the former inhabitants of the land. God is just and extremely fair. No partiality.

According to You:

ix. God should be proactive (God cannot be as silent as a graveyard at midnight)

The Truth
God is proactive. God is never silent. Men are the ones who have dull ears. They can't hear God.

According to You:

x. God cannot be foolish and stupid. He cannot know what to do and not do it.

The Truth
God is none of what you think He is. He knows what to do and is doing it. God doesn't work according to your frail logic or prediction. He has a plan and He's executing it stage by stage.

According to You:

xi. God cannot have a child and sacrifice that child to himself for the sake of people he cursed with his own mouth.

The Truth
You don't know or have the faintest understanding of what sin is, do you? Death is the only repercussion for Sin. A SINNER MUST DIE. Sin is man, and man is sin. Inseparable. The solution for sin is the annihilation of sinful men. A sinful man is spiritually dead. He can only be annihilated. God does not want to annihilate man, so He brought a Sinless man in the person of His Son to to take the position of sinful men so that dead men can be made alive to God. I'll stop here because if your inner eyes are not open, you can't understand how serious a matter sin is.

You cannot understand the mystery of righteousness until you understand the mystery of sin.

According to You:

xii. A god cannot be weak, thereby reacting to emotions. Cursing Adam and Eve.

The Truth
God was not being emotional in that scenario. He acted as judge for disobedience. When a judge sentences a thief to prison, do you accuse him of being emotional? God is a God of justice, no matter how much He loves you, you'll be judged for your disobedience. Actions have consequences.

According to You:

xiii. A god cannot a religion. I mean a particular way he can be reached.

The Truth
Yahweh does not have a religion. And He's the only One who doesn't. All other gods worshiped by men have religions. Yahweh doesn't. He is the Only One who is Creator. He has no religion. Religion is a man and Satan made thing. It doesn't emanate from God. God can be reached any way and any how and anywhere.

The list is endless.

The Truth
The endless list is based on your endless ignorance. Listening to men without seeking to listen to God directly is the reason for your defective atheistic position.

According to You:

But to answer your question.
A god is that supernatural divine being that is responsible.

The Truth:
That is exactly who Yahweh Is

Ken4Christ:
Apostle Paul in his letter to the church of Galatians wrote;

Galatians 1:11-12
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

He said that his teachings are personal revelation from Jesus. And Apostle Suleman said Jesus said his friend who died was teaching Paul's revelation and not his revelation. This contradicts the scripture unless Apostle Suleman is saying that Paul lied.

And if Apostle lied that his messages are from Jesus when actually they are his messages, them the New Testament letters of Apostle Paul is not the word of God to his church.

This is a grave error from Apostle Suleman. And those who his spiritual fathers should please call him to order before he sets confusion in the church to unstable souls.

Please stop referring to such a person as an apostle. He's Suleiman.

OLAADEGBU:
That means that we have to intensify our prayers because the field is ripe for harvest.

Yeah. The Lord will help us.

adamusuleiman2:
And doctors went on strike for 13 months. While he kept buying Ford vehicles for ezes, igwes, and political gangsters.

Can you just imagine? Did he use charm on obidients or what? I don't understand.

OLAADEGBU:
That’s the evidence to show that they need to believe the true gospel and for them to allow the daystar appear in their hearts.

They don't understand anything about this talk of yours. They follow ungodly men who tell them what their itchy ears want to hear. They do not know Jesus.

OLAADEGBU:
They have to be born again before they can begin to discern and decipher the truth from deception.

That's true. But they believe they're already born again. They'll be cursing and churning out a whole lot of dirty language to haul at you, and still claim to be born again. Are they not deceiving themselves?

koondog:
She is an agbado, not an obedient. I'll tell you why. Number 1,Yoruba who are obedients in fact insults Yoruba who supported Tinubu more than Obidents. To them, it's very painful that most of their people supported this failure and the reason the country is in a mess.

To any sensible Yoruba, they know it's an insult for this country to be in this mess when the Yoruba race has capable minds like Osinbajo, Akinwunmi Adessina and Olusegun Aganga, who would have done exceptional well as Obi or even better. This is the pain of many sensible Yoruba, Yoruba is now a laughing stock. Even Buhari up until May 29, did exceptionally well than Tinubu.

Number 2, this lady if you watch the video claimed Tinubu won 66k votes in Anambra, that alone is enough to know she is an agbado to have believed that or even open her mouth to say that. The fact she would even nurse the idea that 66k people voted for Tinubu in Anambra, which is not even possiblein the entire SE, is an insult to Igbo people. It's not about tribalism, Obasanjo won over 90% of the SE vote in 1999 and 2003, so nothing to do with tribalism but yoruba bringing out competent candidates.

Frankly speaking, judging from his antecedents, Obi himself wasn't a competent candidate. I don't know why some people want to die for him.

https://www.nairaland.com/870945/what-exactly-peter-obi-doing

Kobojunkie:
Abeg, get away, you blind religious ninny!

You're possessed. You need deliverance!

Kobojunkie:
According to Jesus Christ, the children of the devil — demons — are instead the ones who take after their father the devil who happens to be a liar from his beginning - John 8 vs 31 - 44.

The God of Israel commanded His people(Israel) to drink alcohol freely, even going as far as to explicitly state that they could use their tithes to purchase and drink alcohol in His presence. Jesus made it abundantly clear in His Gospel that He did only the Will of His Father, the Old Law of Moses — His food was doing that which His Father had commanded of Him as an Israelite - John 6 vs 25 - 35. This all means that Jesus Christ would never have violated the word of His Father. Now, anyone who claims He did, however, might as well be the demon here.

Your first paragraph rightly describes your person.

Francistown, what is your idea of a God if I may ask? And why do you think you cannot consider Yahweh a God?

Kobojunkie:
Look, your religious ideas contradict the God of Israel, and His Son, Jesus Christ, whom you lot pretend you follow. It is almost as though your every idea is steeped in nothing but logical fallacies. So, as far as theological dissonance, the is what is the purview of the religion of Christianity itself - a religion built on lies that pretends an alignment with that which it contradicts.

Everyone knows you're a demon!

PoliteActivist:
Thanks for the lengthy write-up.
Well, they'll ask you, so God doesn't destroy those who insult him because he is good, soo why doesn't Satan destroy those who insult him? Especially as he is god of this word and heavenly God has to be invited and can't intrude. They'll also say you paint God as being rather weak compared to God of OT.
Also God sees babies who'd be armed robbers and destroys them while saving those who'd help the world. Well they'd ask you who made them to be armed robbers and also why would God want to save those who'd help Satan's world.
About death. in the OT God punished people by shortening their lives and rewarded them by adding years, after which they were "gathered to their fathers." No inkling of death being a good thing. Even Lord Jesus never rejoiced at anybody dying and even wept when Lazarus died.
About suffering of the Jews, they'd ask you why the disciples who killed nobody suffered worse

Well, some of the questions are actually misplaced because they are the wrong questions asked in ignorance. I correct the questions by providing more clarify as I proceed.

Question 1
Well, they'll ask you, so God doesn't destroy those who insult him because he is good, soo why doesn't Satan destroy those who insult him?

Answer
For clarity, God is long-suffering and would wait really long for the individual to repent before he or she is judged. He doesn't judge the individual out of hatred but for Justice. God loves man but hates the sins man commits. The insulter of God would still be destroyed when his cup is full. But God would wait very long for him.

Satan destroys those who insult him but he doesn't have the ultimate power to do so. He is a created being. He has no absolute power over man who is another created being like himself. If Satan would destroy someone, he'll first look for legal loopholes in the person's life, and then carry out the destruction by proxy.

...Especially as he is god of this word and heavenly God has to be invited and can't intrude.

For more clarity, Satan is the god of this world. He controls the affairs of the world, particularly its administration. Satan still has his limits in the life of man. He owns the world but he doesn't own man. I can own a house without owning the properties inside the house. You get the logic?A man must give himself out to Satan before Satan can claim ownership of the man and enter his life as he pleases. Men often hand over their lives to Satan through occultism. Satan can't destroy a man at will. Such an operation follows some rules.

Question 2
They'll also say you paint God as being rather weak compared to God of OT.

Answer
I think they ignorantly consider God in the Old Testament as wicked. They need some clarifications about that beyond the scope of this discourse. However, let me state here that God is extremely just, and what you see of God in the Bible are the results of His perfect justice. His methods of bringing justice in the Old Testament is different from that of the New because God divided time into 2 dispensations. Each dispensation has its purpose. We can't go into these in details but very briefly,

1. God in the Old Testament was showing man that He loves man especially those who do righteousness. God never destroys or bring evil on righteous people.

2. God in the Old Testament showed us that sin has SEVERE consequences. Even a nation or man that God so much loves is not spared the consequences of sin. God will severely judge sin, no matter who committed it. The judgement can be gruesome but it's part of Justice. God is a Judge. You don't call a judge a wicked man for sentencing a murderer to death, do you?

3. In the Old testament, God wanted man to see that the ability for him to do righteousness is zero. Man will still commit sin even in the midst of stringent laws that have grievous consequences. Consequences don't deter man. Man is helpless before sin because he has a sin nature from the Adamic fall. Man needs help. This is clearly demonstrated in the Old Testament.

4. In the new testament, after God has demonstrated the weakness of man and his need for a helper to overcome sin, God brought in Grace. Jesus the sinless man has to stand in the gap between God and man, and bear responsibility for man's sins since man cannot do without sinning. Man was not created that way. The inherent ability of Man to sin was given to him through the spirit of disobedience that Adam received when he ate the forbidden fruit. Man cannot do without sinning, hence, Jesus to the rescue. By Jesus, man can no longer face the consequences of his own sin because Christ paid for him. He then empowers man to live righteously through the help of the Holy Ghost.

The bottomline of it all is that, in the final judgement, man wouldn't have an excuse. There's no one judged to spend eternity in hell who'll be accusing God in his mind of being unjust or of not being given all opportunities to live righteously.

i. The Old testament man may say, "God knows we're weak when it comes to sin, yet he inputs our sins upon us whereas He knows that we do not have the ability to do righteousness." God would show old testament man the new testament people upon whom sin was not imputed but still rejected the offer and refused to embrace God's provision for righteousness. God needs righteousness in man for Him to relate with man. Man was created purposely for relationship and fellowship with God. God cannot ignore sin.

Ii. The new testament men might say, "Oh, we would have been more serious about righteousness if God has given us stringent laws with grievous consequences to deter us from sin." God would show them the new testament men who kept sinning and kept facing consequences without any restraint.

God is so just that even after judging you, He wants you to know that you're truly guilty of your sin, and your judgement is well deserved. Man wouldn't be able to blame God for the final state of his own soul. He'll know for certain that he got there by the choices he made. God cannot be blamed.

Question 3
Also God sees babies who'd be armed robbers and destroys them while saving those who'd help the world. Well they'd ask you who made them to be armed robbers and also why would God want to save those who'd help Satan's world.

Answer
God doesn't make anyone armed robbers or pastors. Everyone becomes who he or she becomes by the choices he or she makes from time to time. God can direct a man's life to become an Engineer, a Doctor or a Pastor but the person may choose instead to become an armed robber or a kidnapper. It's the person's choice. God never created man as zombies who do things by being programmed to do it. Man does things by making the choices to do them. That's why man would be fully responsible for his own actions. God can see the future choices a baby would make.

By sparing a baby who'll bless the world in future, God is not preserving those who'll help Satan's world but rather, He's preserving those who'll DISRUPT Satan's activities in the world. Satan wants full scale evil and wickedness all over the world. God raises people who restraints him. People who'll do some disruptive good in the midst of a wicked world. Otherwise, the world would have been so unbearable to dwell in.

Also, it is wrong to say God destroyed the babies who'll be future Evils. Destruction comes from 4 sources: God, Man, Satan and Nature.

When there's a natural disaster, a man or a baby could be caught up if he or she has no defence. It's wrong to think God destroyed somebody because he fell victim of a mishap. Let me explain with a real life example.

When I was in Ilorin in 2016. A member of our church testified of how his daughter was miraculously saved from death. He said during the weak, their first born daughter, about 9yrs at the time was busy in the kitchen while the rest of the family were in the sitting room. The girl just left the kitchen suddenly and walked aimlessly into the parlor. The kitchen was somehow detached from the main building. You know those types of old houses. As soon as the girl stepped into the sitting room, they heard a loud noise coming from outside. When they went to check it out, the kitchen roof had given way and had collapsed into the kitchen. If the girl had remained there at the time, no doubt, she won't make it alive. This is a clear demonstration of the defense we all have. A Godless person is actually defenceless. His defences are removed. He is bare and spiritually vulnerable. However, Satan does not usually attack those because they're like pets in a cage that could could be taken out at anytime. They don't bear any threat to Satan, so they might even live peaceful lives until Satan is ready to take them out or a natural disaster befalls them. Anything can happen to them at any time. A Godly person is often seen as a threat to Satan , so attacks against him never stops. However,che has a defence. He can fall a victim of mishap if he chooses to be ignorant of his rights in God or fails to cultivate his ability to listen to his inner witness and hear God's instructions. Sometimes, the instruction might be to get off a bus 'A' ready to travel and enter into another empty bus 'B' awaiting passengers to travel. Such an instruction can save a man's life as the bus 'A' may never reach its destination. This explains one of the many reasons why on some occasions, godly people may be involved in calamities. Disobedience to instructions or inability to hear the voice of God. The very lack of spiritual sensitivity is the major reason why some righteous people suffer. This also couples with the lack of knowledge for many.

So mishaps can happen to people from either of 4 sources but a defended person is hardly caught up in them.

Question 4

About death. in the OT God punished people by shortening their lives and rewarded them by adding years, after which they were "gathered to their fathers." No inkling of death being a good thing. Even Lord Jesus never rejoiced at anybody dying and even wept when Lazarus died.

Answer
I never said death is a good thing from any man's perspective. That's only from God's perspective. God wants us to come home and be with Him which means death, but He also recognizes that we desire long life here on earth. He gives that desire as a reward to good people or even as an expanded opportunity for a sinner or a wicked man to repent. He can however shorten the life of a righteous man in love, if He finds that the righteous man would soon make wrong choices in life that would erode his righteousness. King Hezekiah of Judah is a case study in this regard. Also, the Bible makes us to know that God does take away righteous men before the evil days come.

The Lord Jesus did weep for Lazarus because He was clothed with man's flesh and had the feelings of a man. He saw the emotions of Mary and Martha, and how sorely embittered they were in their souls. He was moved to compassion, not because He couldn't raise Lazarus or because He thought Lazarus was in some evil state. The dejected states of Lazarus' sisters was what moved Jesus. He knew before getting there that Lazarus was dead but He didn't weep until He saw Mary. God doesn't see death as an evil. A homecoming is not evil in anyway. He can use it as a punishment for wickedness by depriving the wicked man his most intense longing - long life. Death itself is not the punishment in this case but the cutting off of the man's desire. Like in the example I gave in my previous post. In reverse, the friends and relations around your loved one who travelled abroad might weep and start missing him or her when returning back home to you. Meanwhile, you are here rejoicing and eagerly waiting to receive the person. That's how the issue of death is between God and man. But to punish wickedness, God can cut take away the wicked man's desire for life. To reward righteousness, God can prolong a man's days by fulfilling his desire to live long. "DESIRE" is the major word here. "The expectations of the wicked shall be cut off."

Question 5
About suffering of the Jews, they'd ask you why the disciples who killed nobody suffered worse.

Answer
This is supposed to be a very lengthy answer but I'll try as much as possible to be brief.

The disciples actually had a special case which God never explained. In 1 Corinthians 4, Paul said God had deliberately set it so for the apostles. However,it should interest you to know that the disciples themselves were fully aware that they would suffer martyrdom from the very beginning of their walks with God. Jesus Christ clearly told them without mincing words, and they fully embraced it with joy. Infact they eagerly awaited such a time when they'll offer their own lives. Not only that, they always had a pre-knowledge of the death they were about to die.

For example, when the two sons of Zebedee came asking Jesus to grant them special seats and positions in His eternal kingdom, Jesus asked them if they can partake of the cup He was about to drink. That cup was the crucifixion on the cross. The two guys responded in the affirmative. Jesus told them that they'll certainly drink. That's to say, they'll suffer martyrdom, but the right to sit in special places in His kingdom is already pre-ordained. All the disciples who suffered martyrdom knew they would. As the day approached, they had the pre-knowledge. They joyfully embraced it. Let's hear from Peter and Paul:

2 Peter 1:13
I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body, 14 because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15 And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things"

Peter wrote this shortly before his martyrdom. He said the Lord Jesus made it clear to him. And he was very willing to give his life.

Let's hear Paul too.

2 Timothy 4:6-8

"6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing."

Paul knew very clearly that he was about to be martyred. He also embraced it with joy. All martyrs actually had a pre knowledge, both the direct disciples of Christ and all matyrs through church history. You can even read about the matyredom of Polycarp and several other matyre.

They were always given two choices by their executors, either to recant and live or to continue professing Jesus and die. They all chose death. Why? Maybe we can get some clues from the response of Polycarp when he was asked to recant and deny Jesus:

"Eighty and six years I have served Him, and He has done me no wrong."

Meanwhile, he was pre-informed by Jesus that he would be burnt alive.

PoliteActivist:
Thanks for calling the write-up "a wonderful exposition", but remember, I am playing devil's advocate for both sides.
So. how would you answer when they ask:

Why do countless people die from natural disasters, diseases, wars, etc. including children, babies, even those still in the womb?
And why do some people deny and deride God daily and still live their full lives sometimes much better than others, while churches and mosques sometimes collapse or are attacked killing worshippers inside, sometimes including babies?

How would you answer these?

Honestly, I love these questions so much. These are the types of questions atheists are supposed to seek answers to before making erroneous conclusions about God. Hence I'll answer these questions and even more. I'll disregarded every other mention from this thread right now and focus on these questions because they're the main issues most atheists have with God.

Permit me to quote scriptures because if you ask questions regarding God, you can only see clarifications from what God has said about Himself and the explanations He has given concerning seemingly confusing events.

Question 1

Why do countless people die from natural disasters, diseases, wars, etc. including children, babies, even those still in the womb?


Answer

Very simple answer. People, including babies fall into diverse mishap because wicked forces are in control of man's world.

It was man's world. God created the world and handed man its absolute control. ABSOLUTE CONTROL. Man was the god of this world. He had control over the physical, natural and spirit realms.

When a farmer loses control of His farm, weeds and thorns would take over. The earth is Satan's property because man handed it over to him. Satan is the god of this world who controls all the happenings in the world. He has ABSOLUTE CONTROL. God would
not interfere without being invited. It's a spiritual law. God isn't a lawbreaker. He doesn't break even the laws He has set by Himself. He can only intervene, not intrude, and that by invitation. Whenever God intervenes, it's called a miracle. A miracle is simply God's intervention in Satan's world to help a particular human or a group of humans. Once a tenant legally takes over a property, he becomes the lord of that property until his tenancy expires. The landlord cannot interfere, he can only intervene upon invitation. That's the simplest way to explain it. However, the issue is much more broader than that. Man has no words to explain some certain spiritual phenomenon. You need a personal understanding to grasp the scope of these things.

"The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's: But the earth hath he given to the children of men.[/v]" Psalm 115:16

Man handed the earth over to Satan in Eden. Earth became Satan's property legally. It was supposed to be a perpetual transaction but God turned it into a form of finite tenancy by the coming of Jesus. Satan's ownership of the earth now has an expiry date

Luke 4:9-11
[b]"The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant ALL THE KINGDOMS of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

You can hear the devil boasting that the world belongs to him because it has been given to him and therefore HE CAN EVEN GIVE IT TO ANYONE HE WANTS. Yeah, it was given to him by Adam through a spiritual transaction. Jesus didn't dispute that statement because He knew it was true.

A property owner has the right to do his property as he wishes. Jesus turned Satan's ownership into tenancy (This is another separate discussion on its own - very broad). The god of this world distributes what he wishes around the world. God won't interfere. It would make Him a God of illegality. He can only intervene when invited. However, if you are a faithful follower of God (not necessarily a church goer. When you see people dancing and praising God in church, among them are prostitutes, armed robbers, ritualists, satanists, cultists, etc. Not everyone in church is God's. God is not attracted to buildings. Buildings are for men even when they call it the house of God. God's house is man's heart.) A true follower of God is the only one to whom God has respect. Satan sits in so many hearts. God's men, and by extension, God's houses are relatively few.

1 John 5:19
"We know that we are children of God and that the world around us is under the control of the evil one."

God has His selected few in the midst of this perverse world. The rest of the world is under the control of the wicked one - Satan.

"Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” Revelation 11:15.

At the expiration of time, the Kingdoms of this world would BECOME the Kingdom of God and of Christ. Christ is the second Adam who would receive to Himself the restoration of the world on behalf of man.

Question 2
And why do some people deny and deride God daily and still live their full lives sometimes much better than others, while churches and mosques sometimes collapse or are attacked killing worshippers inside, sometimes including babies?

Answer

God is not an emotional Being. He works according to rules and principles. God does not get angry with you when you deride Him or throw Him insults. He looks mercifully on such because He knows they're ignorant. You'll see that in Jesus' response as He was nailed to the tree: "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." Those were not man's words. Those are divine words flowing out of the Devine nature. That's the nature of God. He gives the sinner all the opportunities he has in this world to repent until his time is up. God does not have the faintest evil thoughts in mind towards such persons. His principle is that justice would be served as soon as the fellow's cup is full. God doesn't judge people because he hates them. He judges them because that's justice. He earnestly wants a sinner to repent rather than face judgement. God will wait very long for the sinner to repent. That sinner would have no excuse when his cup is full.

Romans 2:4

"Or do you despise the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?"

Now, let's talk about why God looks on when churches are attacked and people get killed in church.

As I've said earlier, God is not interested in buildings. Sometimes, what people call the house of God are actually houses of Satan. A place doesn't become the house of God just because people worship there. Jesus wrote to 7 churches in the book of Revelation 2 - 3. Out of those 7 churches which were referred to by everyone as the gatherings of God's people and the Holy Houses of God, the Lord Jesus acknowledged just 2. Others where tagged synagogue of Satan by Jesus Himself while humans tag them houses of God.

Wherever there's calamity, many people would suffer, but God would give His select few a means of escape. This is applicable even to so called churches of God. God will give His own a means of escape.

God does not see babies as men see them. Men see babies in the present, God sees babies in their future. While you are looking at a young innocent beautiful baby, God may be looking at an armed robber, a hardened criminal, a prostitute, a murderer or a man of God, a great president, an outstanding scientist in the same baby. God will save babies that are worth saving even in the midst of dangerous calamities that take away adults. He knows the ones who'll bless the world in Adulthood. Take for example the case of a baby in Palestine who was found unscathed under the rubbles of a fallen house days after its family was annihilated by an Israeli strike to their home. Everyone knows that's a miracle. A Devine intervention. You don't need to look far before you'll find that God preserved the baby for a future. He considered her worth saving.

Let me add that God does not see death the way humans see it. Humans see death as a painful loss. It weighs heavily on the emotions. It's regarded as the greatest evil. God doesn't see death that way. God sees death as a simple transition from the ephemeral physical state to an eternal spiritual state. The spiritual state offers more benefits and pleasure than the physical state. To God, it's not evil to transit from the good to the better. Men see it as evil because they can't see beyond the physical. Some people would rejoice boundlessly if they're permitted to see the state of their departed loved ones. Especially babies. People who die in Christ in particular do not want a chance to return to this world. Death is not a termination of life. It is the real begining of the real life.

Well, it's understandable. You could grow emotional when your loved one is departing your country to another country. No matter whatever good the other country offers, your emotions would come to play when waving the person goodbye because you know you won't see him again for a long time to come. How much more when someone leaves the earth? Then, look at it, the friends in that other country are joyously and eagerly awaiting the the arrival of the same loved one you're getting emotional about. God rejoices when He sees someone coming home to Him. You cannot imagine how much God loves man.

Psalm 116:15
Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his faithful servants.

Let me add another question which you didn't ask:

Question 3

Why was God looking on when Hitler killed the Jews?

Answer

The Jews have suffered worldwide even before the holocaust. They were objects of mockery everywhere in the world. At the time, Jewish lives didn't matter. All sorts of calamities befell them. It has been so since AD 70 when the Roman Armies destroyed Jerusalem, and escaped Jews became vagabonds all over the world for almost 2 millennia.

However, they were the ones who brought the calamity upon themselves by their response when Pilate told them He wouldn't have his hands in the death of the innocent man Jesus. How did they respond?

Mathew 27:25
"All the people answered, “His blood be on us and on our children!”

That blood haunted them until Hitler. You can read stories of the pre-hitler sufferings of the Jews.

Note that God does not any longer count the physical Jews as His special people. His special people in the new testament are those who believe in His Son Jesus and follow Him faithfully. These are the spiritual Jews with whom God reckons today. The physical Jews have been discarded.

Romans 2:29

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

The spiritual Jew is the only Jew God recognizes today. That spiritual Jew is that black, white, blue or red man who is a true follower of Christ.

Well, these are just the fundamental answers to these questions. The answers are quite broader than these. So many things have been left unsaid due to the constraints of space and time. But to the genuinely curious individual, these answers provide an open door to more enquiries and research to get to the very depth of the answers. Once you understand, you'll discover that there are some things you cannot even express in words.

FRANCISTOWN:
Even with how hard you tried to dodge the obvious. You are evil, extremely evil. So evil, so so evil. Very evil, very very evil. So very evil. So very much evil.
Evil, so very much more. That's what you guys are.

Lol.

That's the same way you tagged God evil without knowing anything about God except what ignorant preachers of religion told you.

You don't know me. So, you're just being childish again.

FRANCISTOWN:
Lol! I'm childish because I refused to be conformed with evil? What a play.🤣🤣🤣

There is no answer anyone wants to give that we've not heared countless of them.

It's either:
•God was more interested in their souls than their bodies thus prepared he them for eternal life. Eternal life my ass. Eternal life that there is no proof of. They, not considering that there might actually be very wicked people amongst those who died.
I doubt if they'd be exonerated of their guilts just because they died by Hitler.

•Or God knows the best.

Evil is actually evil.
Incapability is actually incapability.

There is no justification for an omnipotent god to open his eyes and watch as bandits attack his children in his own house without doing shit about it.
Even your bible says , only a stronger man can rob a strong man. He first ties him up and robs him with his eyes wide open.
The same with armed robbers, their arms make them stronger.
Should we agree that the bandits are stronger than your god, that's the reason he can't do anything with his eyes wide open?
Could it be that he doesn't even have eyes?
Could it be that he doesn't even have ears?
Could he be that he is not omnipotent after all?
I get it, it's simply because he doesn't exist.

I'm not sure I'd have the power to protect my kids and I'll do nothing, unless I'm mad.

An Omnipotent god is watching a kid being molested and at a snap of his fingers, the molester can vanish or petrify. Yet he doesn't do shit and just enjoy the show.

There is no justification under the skies that can absorb such level of foolishness, wickedness, immorality and irresponsibility of a self caused God. (Thinking about this I'm getting angry self).

Lemme share this with you, in the author's words:

"The story goes like this: in kidnapping 5–6 year old boys, and then raping and torturing them to death on video, which was then sold to wealthy businessmen around the world.

At the time, I remember reading that when the Russian policemen and soldiers busted the place, they couldn’t help but cry because of what they saw.

As I prayed, and read the Bible, and contemplated the horseshit within it, one inescapable conclusion kept popping up in my mind that while those little boys were being tortured and were dying in an unimaginable way, this Christian god was present in that same room, had the power to stop it, and didn’t.

We always hear that pedophiles do not survive long in prisons because even the worst offenders we have - rapists and murderers, do not tolerate pedophiles. They kill them because even the worst we have understand that a pedophile is the lowest of the low, violating the innocence. Yet omnipresent, omnipotent god knew from the beginning of time that these boys would suffer this fate, was present in the room while it was happening, and did nothing. I could never reconcile that with what the Bible taught."

1. Even the policemen who raided the place couldn't help at the sight of that kind of horror. They were sad to their souls that they shed hot, bitter tears. Yet, a supposed omnipotent, omnipresent god couldn't do anything about it. Imagine how many kids have been molested, killed (I can't even talk about it because it's too terrible to imagine)

2. @The second emboldened. Even rapists, murderers and other hardened criminals cannot tolerate pedophiles, yet a supposed god would rather enjoy the show. Does that make any sense to you?

That's the reason I said, none of the supreme beings being worshipped in every religion on earth fits into what can be called a "God". They fit more into a "Demon". Even demons if they existed can never be that wicked and irresponsible. The ideology of a "God" is very stupid and imbecilic.

The Muslim guys are way smarter, that's the reason they call their supposed "God" Allah. They knew the characteristics of Allah does not fit into what is supposed to be called a "God".
Yahweh doesn't even come close. If he existed, he would effortlessly pass the interview to being a demon(a very wicked one at that).

Do you still want me to ask questions? Then I'd be a very stupid, wicked, demented earthly bastard to tryna find a way around this abominable act of outlandish wickedness.

If yourself, PoliteActivist, Dtruthspeaker, Image123, MaxInDHouse, DrJones109, Jesusjnr2022 and several others are cool with this supposed "God"? Your wickedness must be out of this world.

Even all your lengthy talks here further proofs that you're childish regarding spiritual matters.

I never said you're childish because you refused to be confirmed with evil. Which evil? You're childish because you ask unknowledgeable and childish questions while providing childish answers for yourself.

LordReed:
LoLz. Answer the question honestly if you can and stop playing games. You accused me of dodging questions but see this simple question that you are dodging as if it is bullet.

I've answered your question. Your answer is in my question. If you can answer my question, then you have your answer. I didn't dodge anything. That's a false accusation.