₦airaland Forum

EMILO2STAY:
25 years in pastoral ministry and you still dont know biblical truth. there is nothing in your post I have not countered as a matter of fact you have not countered mine instead your beating about the bush. pauls anm of sin is same as as the little horn of daniel 7. beciase they both blasphem and usurped the position of God

daniel 7 gives an insight into what the beast is and that is a kingdom with a man ruling if you agree this kingdom / system is already inexistence then you also know that the man ruling there is the eyes and mouth of that little horn the same as the man of sin this system is refered to as the beast in bible prophecy because it took over from the fourth beast amd used its political power. the beast is not a person per say how many times do i have to prove that with scripture?

this beast described by John in revelation is nothing but the office of the papacy which is still same as mystry babylon. this babylonian system as at the time of johns revelation was and is not but is to come. meaning the babylonian system was inexisted before johns times during of there political power and as at the time of the revelation is not in existence becuase babylon is no more but is to come in the near future through the papacy who have assimilated the babylonian culture through rome because the priests of babylon ran to rome at the fall if babylon and they ran to a place called pagamos in rome which the bible called the sit of satan. rome incooperated this practices into there religious system and that is how the vatican got it. now do you understand why it is called mystery babylon?

notice the beast embodies the features of other beast before it read it again. this simply means it incooperates the pagan practicies of the kingdsoms before him all the way up to babylon meaning its pagan practice goes back to babylon which is why it is called mystry babylon. same as the harlot. you should know how to interpret biblical symbolism but i see that your 25 years in the ministry is in futility because you do not recognize that your church is part of the babylonian system the bibile says come out of her my people which is still referring to the same system not a person. your ego as a pastor is the reason why you are ignoring the things I write and counter with empty words that prove nothing.

you keep proving to be ignorant of the scripture you have been preaching for 25 years daniels seventy weeks gives us an insight of prophetic times. the 70weeks where not literal but symbolic for each day for a year totaling 490years see ezekiel 4:6.And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year

the same principle is to be applied in daniel 7 to fully understand it. using this principle in daniel 7 we come to 1260 years persecutions by the little horn power when it arose out of the fourth beast. now going back to history rome is the fourth kingdom and this fourth kingdom fell in the year476 ad and the little horn power that took over this fourth kingdom is the papacy in 538ad. this was the year pope vigilus took power from the ceasers and started exercising his political authory by plucking off three kingdoms( heruli, osthrogoths and vandals) because they would not recorgnise the authority of the pope, the popes exercised this authority untill 1798 when napoleon went into the vatican and captured the pope hence the fatal wound the beast recieved but this wound was healed in 1929 when Mussolini signed the vatican concordant. make I still dey teach you in case you think its talking about a person. do your maths 1798- 538=1260 years.


every thing you said about islam beeing the antichrist is jargon. no entity fits the describtion of the antichrist like the papacy and vatican unless you have not done your home work. islam was created by the vatican in 600 Ad by the papacy through mohammeds wife and uncle both whom are roman catholics and the aim was capture jerusalem and kill north african christians who does not recognise the pope. let me stop here you know nothing the LovePeddler of babylon is said to have many daughters and islam is her first that is if you understamd the symbolism.

I never said Islam is the antichrist. I only gave an example of many conspiracy theories like your indicating our space.

I gave you some scripture. Tackle only those scriptures. Quote them and explain the following:

1. The Bible says two people were cast into the lake of fire. Why did the bible make the antichrist abd the beast 2 people?

2. Who is the beast which was and is not and shall come and go into perdition? How does it fit into the papacy?

3. What do the scriptures mean by the statement "It is a man's number" while referring to the number of the antichrist+ 666.

4. Simple English of John which said ", You've heard that THE ANTICHRIST IS coming (,one man is coming) but even now, MANY ANTICHRISTS (many men) are already among us. You might need to give this passage to an English Language specialist to analyze for you.

5. Why would John refer to a Latin name as 666 when he was addressing a Greek and Hebrew audience? I mean that the number 666 is referenced to a Greek name. Ancient Greeks associate names with numbers. The audience of John fully understood who he was referring to.

Let me see your response to the 5 questions above. Line by line as simplified for you up there. I have several over questions that challenge your position but I'll limit it to 5 for now.

EMILO2STAY:
whats the difference? there was actually no reason at all to call me that, besides you said I should show you where you made such statement and the fact is you indeed made such statemnet if this where in a court of law you think your rejoinder prove anything?..' you actially really have no shame

Even if it was a court case, I never inferred that you made a direct statement. Courts would look at context which you ignored. A certain JW was supporting your posts and mentioning me. That made me think you're brothers.

EMILO2STAY:
look at the base of your post at the bolded. are you mentally unstable or what? you see why I said you pretend and live in denial too much abeg carry your wahala dey go. I never knew I was dealing with a mentally unstable person.

Did you see the rejoinder that says "or are you not a JW?" Meaning you JWs say Jesus came in 1914. That statement therefore did not refer to you as a person but to JW as a group. Then I went further to say "if you are not a JW, I am surprised where you got all those craps from." After you said you are not a JW, a sensible person would no longer hold that word as referring to you. the statement came with a condition. You left the condition and held on to the statement. I might stop interacting with you because I don't think I'm dealing with someone worthy of my time.

EMILO2STAY:
on the contrary you go by public opinion and you dont know the bible. the doctrine you believe is called futurism and it follows the pretribulation rapture doctrine which is a false doctrine that arose at the wake of the reformation.see the proof below that you are ignoring I can also give you more..

In the late Middle Ages and the Protestant Reformation, some commentators sought
to identify the Antichrist with the Pope, so that figures from the Book of Revelation might not only be interpreted as representing figures in the past
(such as the Emperor Nero) or in the future (in the Last Days), but also in the present. Ribera in 1585 began writing a 500-page commentary on the Book of Revelation, titled
In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarii, proposing that the first chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest referred to a yet future period of 3½ literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy . Then, he proposed, the Antichrist, a single individual, would:

Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God

Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem

Abolish the Christian religion

Deny Jesus Christ

Destroy Rome

Be received by the Jews

Pretend to be God

Kill the two witnesses of God

Conquer the world.

-- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Ribera
the above shows you are following public opinion and your assertions are not your own



you have shown great ignorance by saying history is anti scripture I wonder if you are twleve years old. the bible itself is a book of history and you cant seperate the two.
the prophecies of daniel cannot be understood without going back in time through history to understand and unravel it.

in daniel 7, daniel chronicled a list of nations to come one after the other starting from babylon so in other to understand that prophecy a good bible student would go back in time and investigate events leading up to present time. yiur actually showing dumbness I cant beleive this!!..

you are still grasping at straws by quoting 2 thessalonians2 and 1 john 2:18 which I have adressed. now let me say it again in case you didnt get.

paul and john speaking with the same spirirt are refering to the same thing and same event and the proof lies in the fact that they are both speaking of an antichrist and a falling away. 2 thessalonians 2: 3 let no man decieve you you for that day will not come except a falling away (apostasia) comes first and that man of sin be revealed.

from the above verse we can see that it is the apostasia that revealed the antichrist. now lets go to john;

They went out from us, (apostasia)but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made MANIFEST that they were not all of us.
-- 1 John 2:19



did you notice the word manifest? in other words john is saying that an apostatsia is to happen for the antichrist to manisfest that is to show that they are not of the true church these goes to show these men are speaking of the same thing and same entity. there are no two antichrist any good bible student knows that. the plural word in johns writing is referring to the same entity and we know this by reading 18-19 of the verse to understand what he is talking about because john used the word "they" which is still plural to refer to the same entity. so this is talking of a system and an organization.

in case you dont know the last days started since the time of christ. even 1 john 2;18 said we are in the last days because the antichrist has come you dont know your bible at all but let me continue teaching you for free.


your problem is understanding and that comes from the fact that you dont study and comprehend the bible. yes paul said the man of sin but is paul referring to just one single powerful super bad guy in the future? the answer is no and the proof lies in daniel 7; 8 , "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.
-- Daniel 7:8

from the above scripture we see here that daniel says the little horn has the eyes and mouth of a man but is daniel pointing to just one man in the future? this is when a good bible student willl do their investigation. now let me school you proper. the first image of a lion was babylon and after babylon came greece amd after greece came rome. see scripture below

Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
-- Daniel 7:23

now we can only know the fourth kingdom if we go back to history to find out. now history has it that rome took over from greece who took over from medo persia who took over from babylon. so history is in perfect agreement with the bible that rome is the fourth kingdom.

now see what the bible said again below

And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
-- Daniel 7:24


it is now clear from the above scripture that this little horn that arose after these ten kings is a political power with a kingdom meaning a system by with an office by which it acts or assumes power. from this we know that this man who persecutes the saints and blasphems God is a king/ kingdom just as the bible says. in otherwords the bible implies the antichrist is working through system / an office or a postion in a system and that is where the power lies. understanding is key. the bible also says this same horn persecuted the saints for 3.5 prophetic years which is 1260 literal years and no man lives that long but let me stop there.

so we can now see that ths little horn is a political power by which men assume a top position to assume power. in that case the antichrist is not just a single man that is to come at the end of time but but an entity by which men assumes a position to act as antichrist simple.


the beast that was capture along with the false prophet is not a singular person but a system/political entity . you are greatly mistaken when you say the beast is a man. it show your level of ignorance. the biblical interpretation of a beast in prophecy is a political nation. just as we see it in daniel 7. the beast is talking of a nation and in this case it is talking of the metamorphosed beast which is still same as the little horn kingdom antichrist system. notice the beast embodies all the charateristics of the former beasts before it in daniel 7 all the way to babylon. which is why the bible calls it mystery babylon notice the angel said in revelation 17:15 that the waters which you saw the beast arose from are peoples multupitudes and tongues. this indicates that these are symbolical representaion and not literal. so they have an underlying meaning. oga you dey goof ohh.


and if the beast is a symbolical representation of a political kingdom then his image will also be a political kingdom and not a literal image as you think so you are wrong.

so far with both scripture amd historical proof we can see that the beast, the little horn with eyes and mouth of a man is not is not just talking of one singular super bad guy to come in the future but an entity and system or political kingdom which is already present with the man already assumed his position of antichrist and succeded by another upon death in office these men take upon them the title of the vicar of thesupon assumption of office which is vicar if the son of God and the numerical equivalent of the tittle is = Vicarius=112 · Filii=53 · Dei=501 =666, other words the antichrist is already here

My friend, you are just ranting and seeking a fight but you won't get one.

I didn't insert my own words! Everything I posted earlier was pure scripture. Take those scriptures and counter me one after the other. Tell me that those scriptures didn't say what I said they said. That's how to debate. Quote the public opinion I inserted into that post if you can dare find one. Prove that my interpretation of those scriptures are wrong, and give your own interpretation in its place in a very organized manner. I wouldn't listen to stories. All those stories you are telling hold no water.

For your information, it is not only the history and title of the papacy that have been used as basis for saying the antichrist has come. I read a similar conspiracy theory here on Nairaland not long ago where Islam was propounded as the antichrist. They accurately calculated the number of Mohammed's name to give 666. They historically earmarked the 10 nations and the little horn. The compiled a list of persecutions from Islam and even proved the blasphemies of Islam while dissecting the Kaaba, and proved that Islam has fulfilled the prophecy of the antichrist. They spewed the same nonsense you are spewing now, bragging on historical facts that explicitly contradicted the Bible. Did I say that History is anti-scripture? You don't read to comprehend? Would you quote where I said that? I said the historical past you have been relaying is anti-scripture because they didn't tally with Bible prophecy. You are just forcing your own narration into the scriptures blindly.

Did I tell you that I read a book in the year 1997 where the Computer was said to be the antichrist? They calculated the number too, and it was 666. By taking the letters A - Z, with A assigned the number 6 and B, 12, C 18 in an arithmetic progression, COMPUTER has its numbers added together to make 666. See attached screenshot. On this link here too, someone argued that it is E-trade Mark and even went ahead to compute its number also as 666: https://www.nairaland.com/4356211/mark-beast-666-computer-technology. Vicarius Filii Dei is Latin, and the Apostle John was referring to a Greek name because as it is, John and his audience knew no Latin. He went ahead to tell his Greek and Hebrew readers "Let everyone that reads understand the number of 'HIS name' for it is ' A MAN's number'." How will John tell Greek and Hebrew readers to understand a Latin name and assign numbers to it? Everyone is just having his own story to tell but when they're brought under scriptural scrutiny, just like your stories, they fall flat. Some have even used the names of Nero and Caligula and translated them to 666. Even the title "Augustus.'

A distinguishing feature of the antichrist is described in Revelation 17:8 :

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

The papacy had being, ceased to be, came out of the abyss and is going to its destruction, isn't it? Do you even notice that John used a future tense "and yet will come out of the abyss" even though he had previously written that antichrist (plural) are already among us. John showed clearly that the antichrists (plural) are different from the antichrist (singular). While the antichrist[b]s[/b] are already among us, the antichrist is still future. He has been, has ceased to be, and would be again and go into destruction. The papacy did not not fulfil any dot of this feature.

The beast that was captured along with the antichrist is an entity, yet the scripture says, the beast along with the false prophets made the two people that were cast into the lake of fire: Revelation 19:20.

CSB
"But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."

NIV
"But the beast was taken prisoner, and along with it the false prophet, who had performed the signs in its presence. He deceived those who accepted the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image with these signs. Both of them were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur."

3.5 Prophetic years is 3.5 literal years. Where did you get your 1260 years from?

I am more than 25yrs in the pastoral ministry. I am not a baby Christian. Neither am I new to all these things you are saying up there. all I want from you is solid scriptural exposition. Honestly, yourb posts so far are not scripturally balanced. Please organize your post when replying. Disorganized writing can be so boring to read.

EMILO2STAY:
pls stop forming what ever you think yiur are fpr me I have seen you form what ever you are. na you come be the sound believer falsely accusing me of saying christ came in 1914. pls just shut your trap mr gentle man indeed.


I talk about disgrace because you pretend not to see your own shortcomings and mistakes you make. did you not call apostasia the love of many waxing cold?
you pretend not to see evidence and evade questions.

I have been the one actaully debating in a healthy manner with point to point explanations with evidence. but you where busy ignoring and falsely acussing me of things I never said.

Quote where I said you said that Christ came in 1914. You have reading comprehension Issues.

I first asked if you're a JW. The JW believe Christ came in 1914. I was only using that to know where you were coming from.

You're very unrefined. Debating in a healthy manner? Lol. From the start you put yourself in a position of a fighter. Always looking for fights. Rolling out insults without being provoked. Proud and arrogant. Why are you like that?

EMILO2STAY:
there is nothing left for you to present anymore. if you doubt me. bring it on tonight I am waiting. you had your chance you didnt present nothing. wetin you wan come form again.. the two topics you presented have already been addressed by me with historical and biblical proofs but if you want your second round of disgrace then come back tonight

There is one thing about me. I am aware that many errors were passed down to us from Roman Catholicism. Infact many practices of protestantism are still not biblical As a result, I do not go by public opinion on Christian doctrines. I study the word for myself to know what the Bible says. If your doctrine cannot stand the test of scripture, then I discard it. Unfortunately, all your postions are anti-scripture. You are looking at history to justify anti-scriptural positions. The Bible has the final say in our matters. Not history or some supposed documents found online.

Now, let's find out from the Word of God whether the Antichrist is a system or a person. Whether he has already come or he is still future. And whether the Temple in question is a physical or spiritual temple.

Let's look into some relevant scriptures:
1. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4:

"3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God."

First, you must realize that the emergence of the antichrist is a 'Last Days' event. The events of the end of time. That is why John said "Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming...," 1John 2:18. It is a last days event. Did John say that the very antichrist has already come? No! Let's examine what he said further: "so now many antichrists have come." From John's words, we have two entities: 1. The antichrist whom we heard is coming 2. Many antichrists that have now come. Take note of the two words used "antichrist" - singular that is coming. "antichrists" - plural that have now come. By the sighting of the "antichrists" John thought that the 'antichrist' would soon appear. So, he said, "we are in the last days." Almost 2,000yrs have passed since John wrote those words. You and I know that John and his contemporaries were not in the last days as they thought. Paul clarified it saying in the scripture first quoted above, "Don't be alarmed by anyone's preaching. That man would not come until there is a falling away." Interestingly, Paul was a contemporary of John. While John thought that the antichrist would soon be revealed, Paul cleared the air that he is still future even though he was aware that antichrists were already in the world.

John said "The antichrist is coming", Paul said "THE MAN" of lawlessness shall be revealed. We have no reference here to "The Men" of sin whom you call the Popes. Instead, we have THE MAN of sin. In the Book of Revelation, John said in 13:18 "This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of A Man, and his number is 666. It is not the number of some men but of A Man. He didn't say "Their number" but "his" number. You need to explain beyond reasonable doubt why A Man and His Number would become a system or a group of men.

Then comes Revelation 19:20
"Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence(in the presence of the beast), by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone”

You can see clearly in the above scripture that the beast is a person. He was captured, and "with him" the false prophet. The scriptures says "These two" (the beast and the false prophet} were thrown alive into the lake of fire. The beast (1 man), plus the false prophet (1 man), = 2 people cast into the lake of fire. Tell me how the addition of the beast to the false prophet = 2 men if the beast is the Popes. The Popes actually have many images but the antichrist has only one image. His own very image. This the Popes don't have.

For smoother interaction, let's first discuss this part of him being one man. Then other parts later.

EMILO2STAY:
there is nothing left for you to present anymore. if you doubt me. bring it on tonight I am waiting. you had your chance you didnt present nothing. wetin you wan come form again.. the two topics you presented have already been addressed by me with historical and biblical proofs but if you want your second round of disgrace then come back tonight

I don't think I'm talking with a sound believer. Also, you must be very immature to think that a debate is a fight. What disgrace are you talking about? I am a gentleman. I do not mean to disgrace you but to present what you can learn from me while I also learn from you. You're just too awkward. I have tried to subtly call you to order to no avail. I.engage in healthy debates. Not unnecessary banters. If I learn any new thing from you, I'll commend you and appreciate you. That's me, that's a mature way to debate. And if I dismantle your ignorance, I'll still address you honorably. Not your kiddish puffed up arrogance debating in hopes of disgracing another. You're so unrefined.

EMILO2STAY:
those who read our debat can clearly see who is unintelligent.
you cannot address my assertions point by point yet this is what I do with both historical proof and scriptural proof.

all what you have said here is nothing but empty words with no substance nor evidence backed by history or scriptural fact just emptiness of words and rants.


look at a man who does not even understand APOSTASY.

I dont need to know you in person but I have weighed you through your reply and have seen that your not an intelligent person neither do you have a comprehensive knowledge about what your talking about and thats why I said you are not on my level.


I gave you proof both scriptural and historical. I have asked you to do same even asked you questions of which you are dodging. I have seen that your just a waste of my time I taught I was arguing with an intelligent person what a mistake.
let me give you a proper definition of pride and ego: it is the purposeful neglect and rejection of the truth right in front of your face and refusing to accept correction and lesson while pretending to still know it all even without present any evidence. this is the typical case with you


what a funny person you asked me a qeustion and even anwered your self therefor prooving your own flaws by yourself and you have the guts to call me confused when you are the definition of confused. just take a look at the bolded words in your post above. you said I should show you where you said the antichrist is a system headed by a man yet at the base of you post you still admitted it is a system headed by a man. lol confused man.


for your info every thing you have typed up there is empty with no proof no fact empty words of nothingness. pls try and address my posts point by point the way I am doing it

Tonight, I'll create time for you okay.

I don't need all the stories you're telling. I'll take you from scripture to scripture to debunk your lies.

Of course, those reading us know who's unintelligent and ignorantly boastful. Even telling disjointed stories that interest no one neither are they in any way connected to the subject matter.

Did I say I have typed or resounded anything yet? Did you not read that I don't even read your posts? Why are you not seeing that I told you clearly that I'm currently busy? This is the sane way you read your bible to come up with those jargons you're so proud about. Reading without comprehending. I have not posted anything yet. And I already told you that clearly.

Even at this moment, I only read the first and last paragraph of your post. No time right now. So, wait till night.

The important things I'll iron out with you tonight are:

1. Is the antichrist a person or a system?

2. Has he already come or is he in the future?

Those are the only issues I have with you. Any other thing you're saying is irrelevant.

EMILO2STAY:
look I am not in your level for your info. and I know I have schooled you enough for you for you to admiit that the antichrist isnt just a man but a system headed by a man.

there is no devil incarnate to come in the future. the devil incarnate are in the popes who assume the office of the vicar of christ. this is bible truth and the position of the reformers. also you must be very ignorant to think that john was talking about a falling away that will happen in jerusalem. christianity was spreading fast and it got to rome even during the time of the apostles. and the apostles understood that the falling away and corruption of the church will not happen in jerusalem but in rome the headquaters of world corruption

see the definition of apostasia again in case you dont understand; "APOSTASY is the formal disaffiliation from, abandonment of, or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion that is contrary to one's previous religious beliefs.-- Wikipedia

from the above have you seen that you are wrong to think it has to do with peoples love waxing cold !! can you see your own ignorance now. are you seeing your disgrace? pls feel ashamed small nahh..

let me also educate you for free again; the doctrine you believe is known as futurism proposed by a catholic jesuit known as francisco ribera in 1585. this was in the wake of the protestant reformation by Martin luther and other reformers who called the office of the papacy the antichrist. this has been the views of the early christians from the time of the apostles until 1585. these below are excerpts from wikipedia its not even hidden


In the late Middle Ages and the Protestant Reformation, some commentators sought
to identify the Antichrist with the Pope, so that figures from the Book of Revelation might not only be interpreted as representing figures in the past (such as the Emperor
Nero) or in the future (in the Last Days), but also in the present. Ribera in 1585 began writing a 500-page commentary on the Book of Revelation, titled In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarii, proposing that the first chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest referred to a yet future period of 3½ literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy . Then, he proposed, the Antichrist, a single individual, would:

Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God

Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem

Abolish the Christian religion

Deny Jesus Christ

Destroy Rome

Be received by the Jews

Pretend to be God

Kill the two witnesses of God

Conquer the world.

-- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Ribera

this view follows the dispensational eschatological view which holds that the jews have a different programe of salvation and that there eyes will be opened when the antichrist breaks his covenant with them. all these are false doctrine of the jesuit. just to take away fingers pointing to the papacy as antichrist and they have succeeded with people like you believing it .

I can school you for free every day and twice on sunday. my previouse questions still stands. you have not attempted them lol.. nah me you wan form for lol you never start. bring it on let me see what you got.

and yes I have thought you that the antichrist has come already if not tell me the significance of the little horns eyes and mouth and if it has arisen out of the beast or not and prove it with history and the bible I am waiting patiently.


pls I am not a jw, you are now showing weakness by putting words in my mouth and lying against me. where did I say christ came in 1914. I thought I was talking to a reasonable human beign

The first way to know an heretic is by his pride and bloated ego. You don't know me, yet you boast yourself to be someone not in the level of an individual you know nothing about. Is that not plain arrogance? Very demonically induced pride.

I have pointed out your errors. Honestly, if not due to the volume of tasks on my table which make me read hastily and post hastily, I would have matched several points with scriptures upon scriptures to expose your foolishness. Just give me time, I'll come for you once I'm free.

Did I say that the antichrist is a system headed by a man? Quote where I said that!

My position is that there's a system. An antichrist system. Infact, the entire unbelieving world is an antichrist system . Anything anti-God is antichrist. But then, there's a system headed by The Antichrist. The system is different from the antichrist. The system is currently at work right now in the world. In its appointment time, the antichrist would be revealed. He heads the system.

There are so many flaws in your argument. My usual way of countering unbalanced information here on Nairaland is to quote you and counter, or produce screenshots of relevant sections of your quotes and counter them one after the other.

Frankly speaking, your posts and arguments appear unintelligent. I'm not used to making such comments as this when I see such flaws in people but I detest proud individuals and have no iota of respect for them.

Yeah, by saying you appear unintelligent, I'm talking what's obvious without intending any pune. Take for example your contradictory assertion that the Antichrist was the ones John referred to in 1John 2:19, and then join it to another assertion of yours that the collapse of Rome paved way for the emergence of the antichrist. Since you do not know how to separate the system of the antichrist from the person of the antichrist, you're automatically saying that the antichrist appeared even in the days of John, and again appeared after the fall of Rome. Lol. That's just one out of many. Go back and read yourself, reorganize your thoughts, become humble and be open minded. I'm doing the same. Stop being childish. Arguing and boasting at the same time is the Hallmark of childishness. Even if you know more than anyone, present yourself maturely, leave the commendation to your listeners. If you don't know this by now, I guess I'm chatting with a kid.

I've read only the first paragraphs of your post. I don't know what you said in the other parts. No time to read everything right now. I'll create the time later on. I'll respond to you comprehensively in one single post. But for now, understand my English thus:

There's an antichrist system headed by a man. There's a system and there's a man. The system is already in the world but the man is still future. He'll emerge out of the system to rule the world. He's the man of sin. His name is given in numerals. The Bible says 'Calculate the number of his name.' The number is 666. He's one man. Not a system. A devil incarnate. Satan's christ. In one single post, I'll be back to prove this position beyond reasonable doubt.

EMILO2STAY:
you should be ashamed to call me confused because you are the confused one. and you have shown it. your lack of comprehension is making you confused. the information I give is heavy for to comprehend and thtas why you call me confused.

you cant deny that you have learned a lot from you should see it as a privilege.

show me where I said that the falling away is the fall of rome? I am waing pls dont fail
you dont understand simple things and that is because you lack basic knowledge of history.
I said the falling away is the departure of the apostate church from the true church. and this apostate church would gain power at the fall of rome. I have proven this times and again through the book of daniel 7.

you are obviously the confused one, so according to you john has a different antichrist and paul has his own antichrist.. can you see that you lack simple understanding. a man who does not know that the bible writers are speaking through one spirirt and they are saying the same.

let me ask you are there two antichrist? and where did the bible mention them. I am waiting.

antiochus epiphanes was a greek and not a roman. your see your lack of undesstanding?
antiochus did not persecute the saints. antiochus did not change the commanment of God, anticohus did not put himself in place of christ. antiochus did not rule the world.

the book of daniel said the antichrist will arise from rome in daniel 7 so mr you are wrong.

pls today is sunday I am ready for you . I have already shown you enough evidence that you cannot help but agree with me that the antichrist is a system headed by a man.
I wll also make agree with me today in the end so I am waiting.

Lol

I have not been readings.your posts, just gleaming through. I'm very busy at the moment. My responses may not be comprehensive, and may not address your points headlong but I have done my best to let you know that there's a system and there's a man. While you think that the system is the anti, I'm making you know that there's a man in the system. A devil-incarnate. Satan's last card. I'll find time today to school you.

The Roman Catholic church started in Rome. It wasn't even part of the antichrists John was talking about. I've not been fully reading your posts but today I'll try to read and respond. I'm in one of my very busy days, additional I got discouraged reading your texts when you were writing in all smalls letters, with no order.

What do you think you're saying that I should learn from? That the Antichrist has already come? Lol. The same way you said the Jesus came in 1914 - or are you not a JW? If you're not a JW, I'm surprised where you got all those craps from.

EMILO2STAY:
lol seeing you agree that the antichrist is a system yet disagree it is a positon occupied by other men is quit contradictory so you are the one contradicting your self.
I am actually teaching and not arguing with you. I believe you have learned from arguing with me even though you will deny it.

I am not arguing that the antichrist is not a person but I am saying that the antichrist has to do with a system than a person which is why I said it is a system with a man at the top and you disagree

if you believe the little horn of Daniel 7 is the system of the antichrist yet believe the antichrist has not emerged then you contradict yourself and disagree with the bible.


the bible refers to the little horn with eyes and mouth of a man as the one blapheming God, persecuting the saints, changing times and laws and all these has already happend. do you thing all these will be done by a man in the future? if you do then you have kbpw kbowledge of history. the man occupying the sit of the papacy will be the son of perdition. the antichrist has already emerged.



even martin Luther the refomer and the host of others called the papacy the sit of the antichrist.
you they learn work. you dont know history .

You're confused. From day one I.have posited that there's a system and there's a man. It seems you're a JW. I can understand where the heresy is coming from.

Even the falling away mentioned in 2Thess 2, you interpreted it as the fall of Rome. Then later you interpreted it as few brothers leaving the church. You called those guys the antichrist. Meanwhile, they were not part of the Roman Catholic whose popes you also called the antichrist. According to you, those whom John referred to are the antichrist. Centuries later, Popes emerged, you called them too the antichrist. How can someone be so confused?

Hopefully today or tomorrow I'll have your time. I don't have time right now. That's why you still have mouth to brag.

A single man has done all those things before in the past on a small scale - Antiochus Epiphanes. So, why can't another single man do it again in the future? Anyone who heads a government as vast as his can do any of those things you're doubting. I just have to take you from scripture to scripture.

EMILO2STAY:
you are the confused one. I have maintained from the start that the antichrist a system headed by a man. you are the one arguing that it is just a single man in the future. well you have finally agreed with me that its a system headed by a man. you are the confused one.

since you now admit that daniel 7 is taliking about a system, let me ask you what is the significance of the eyes and mouth of the little horn and has the little horn emerged?


notice you are now slowly agreeing with me in everything I said but yet have not been able to prove all you have said so far. such as the antichrist coming to bring peace in the niddle east and sitting in a rebuilt temple
I am waiting.

You're the one contradicting yourself. I do not agree that the antichrist has already emerged. He's still future. The benefit you have is that I really don't have time right now. I'm just coming online today very briefly. Perhaps tomorrow.

I have shown you scriptures already that the Antichrist is a person. To this, all christians worldwide agree. It's even funny that you're equating what John said about antichrists being in the world already to be the same thing as the antichrist. Can't you different between antichrists and the antichrist? Or what type of Eschatology are you doing? The antichrist is the head of a system of antichrists. What's hard in that?

EMILO2STAY:
I can see you have no other line of defence nor fact to prove your point. the time of the antichrist has already come. the bible revealed it a long time ago in the book of daniel. unless you diagree with the bible. then invent your own antichrist.

I asked you a question, if you are honest about your belief then answer it.

oga daniel 7 clearly tells you this system has a mans eyes and mouth
speaking great things blaspheming God and persecuting the saints do you
thinks this is talking of a particular man? or a system with a man positioned
at the top.? answer this question.!!

let me also ask you another one.
has the little horn of daniel with eyes and mouth emerged?




every thing you believe about the antichrist you cannot prove with the scriptures yet you call me confused. you are the confused one running from pullar to post..

I don't even have the time for unnecessary arguments.

You have said it in your confusion that the antichrist heads a system. The word 'The' I'd a definite article pointing to something. The words it points to is singular- Antichrist. Not antichrists. There's a. Man of Sin. One man. The antichrist is more powerful than the Popes. When he emerges he would not be mistaken. All these your conspiracy theories hold no water. I have shown you facts already from scripture, and you have confessed multiple times that he is a man heading a system. Why argue with yourself?

Daniel 7 is talking about the system. The antichrist is part of the system but has a distinct individuality from the system. The problem you're having is your inability to separate the antichrist from the system of the antichrist.

EMILO2STAY:
you are now not making sense.who esle have positioned themselves in place of christ and God ? who esle has claimed to forgive sins? who else have changed the commandment of God? you have you have no argument abeg. I am teaching you I am not arguing with with you. read what I wrote again from the beginning I told you that the antichrist isnt just a system but a system headed by a man and even given scripture to prove.

the fact that the antichrist is not just a single man in the future is revealed by daniel 7s little horn and revelation 17 and 18 every thing written in those scriptures where fulfilled by a series of popes through the vatican which is a system and an organization. if you say the antichrist is a man that comes through a system them your ultimately agreeing with me which is what I have been saying since. and if that is the case then there is no way the man will just come out of no where in the future rather he comes into a position through a system and process by which other men have occupied before common sense!!

oga daniel 7 clearly tells you this system has a mans eyes and mouth speaking great things blaspheming God and persecuting the saints do you thinks this is talking of a particular man? or a system with a man positioned at the top.? answer this question.!!


the fact of the matter is that there is nothing a future anctichrist will fulfill that the popes have not done already.

You're confused.

The Antichrist would do much more than that. The time of the antichrist is trickling. Stop confusing yourself. The antichrist system is different from the antichrist himself. That's the Bible!

EMILO2STAY:
you say I am wrong? lol you are even double wrong.

the popes never gained any political promince before 538.

no one obeyed the popes above the emperors before 538. in rome the ceasears ehere seen as Gods
the title pontifex maximus was given to the popes by the cesears showing a transference of power and authority.
you are busy citing a donation that happend in 756. which has no significance here. when the popes already gained authority way back in 538ad . after which they uprooted 3 kingsoms namely the heruli osthrogoths and vandals. as daniel spoke of about the little horn.

the rest of the things you said there even though it is copy and paste has no significance here they prove nothing.


you are busy thinking a super human will come in the future ,this is because you lack understanding. satans own christ id the popes they have usurped the positon of christ already and the number of there title is 666 which is the numerical equibalent of the word vicarious filli dei go find out and stop arguing. they will put on a final show down at the of times in an effort to decieve the world again but many people will be decieved ince theu dont know that antichrist is already in there midst.

lol its funny how you now admits that the man of sin will come from a system which is what I have been saying.

this system has been in existence for over 1700 years and this system has a man as a figure head. now see the logic; if the system has been in existence for thousands of years does it mean it has one and same man as the figure head for thousands of years? you see how you lack understanding.

I told you its a system with a amn at the top and there is a succesion that follows in other to keep this position going. so in other words it not about a man but system or organization.

the persecutoon of the saints of God by the vatican lasted for over a thousasnd years was it done by one man?

the usurpation of the position of God and son of God in he vatican was it done by one man?

the blasphemy of God by the catholic church was it done by one man ?


this is why the book of revelation spoke of this system as a city. notice that this city doomed to the wrath of God so also is the man of sin doom to the wrath of God so also is the little horn doomed to the wrath of God all these are one and same thing.

pray for understanding.

Is sit only the Catholics that blaspheme God? If you would judge with that, then everybody who blasphemes God is the antichrist. I think you just love unnecessary arguments. After admitting that the antichrist is the one man head of a system and not a system, what further argument do we need? Is that not in tandem with my position already? The antichrist is the head of a system. There is one man at the end of time regardless of whatever antichrist practices existed before him that is explicitly referred to as the man of sin. Many have betrayed Christ but not everyone is called the son of perdition except Judas Iscariot. Many are antichrists but not everyone is The Antichrist except The MAN OF SIN. Note, not The Men of Sin. That's clear enough.

[quote author=EMILO2STAY post=127026908]the scriptures of 2 thessalonians2 you just quoted even proves me right and you wrong.
it shows that the antichrist will come before the rapture and not after as you think.

the greek word used for "falling away" is apostasia. which means a departure from the true church or body of christ. here paul is saying the same thing as in 1 john 2:19 which reads "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." this is not some global event but it refers to a group of people who left the true body of christ and founded a corrupt one. this is also the reason why john said there are many antichrists
the book of daniel and revelation exposes the antichrist these scriptures agree with mathew 24 ,2 thessalonians and the book of john.

The antichrist would come before the rapture. There's nothing in my post that says he'll come after. 1John 2:19 is not talking about the apostasia of 2Thessalonioans 2. The apostasia Paul was talking about is an extended one corroborated with the sayings of Christ in Mathew 24 that "the love of many will wax cold." In 1John 2:19, there were a few people who left the church and created their own doctrines as I explained earlier. The apostasia Paul talked about is massive one expected to occur at the end time. There are many antichrists, yes but but they are not the antichrist.

the book of daniel and revelation exposes the antchrist as a system headed by a man, and the book of revelation exposes the antichrist as a woman drunk on the blood of the saints and also literraly interpretes the woman as the city that reigns over the kings of the earth , a city that sits on seven hills and this parallels the book of daniel 7 which shows the antichrist as a little horn which means a political kingdom also headed by a man.

You are confusing yourself and it seems you don't even understand what you're saying. At the bolded, you still came back to my position. The antichrist is not a system. He is the head of a system. He may be a Pope, probably the last Pope that would head the vatican before the close of this age. He is a man. Not a ssytem.

both symbols of a horn and a harlot in the book of daniel and revelation persecuted the saints and had control of the entire world and it population. both systems where also doomed to destruction so you are wrong to say it is not a system

there is no man who can do that without a political system or platform think mr think.

The woman drunk with the blood of the saints is not the antichrist. It is a system. Stop muddling things up for yourself. And who told you that the antichrist won't have a political system or platform? Your comment, asking me to think is unreasonable. The antichrist is the head of a political system conjoined with a religious system at the same time. However, while there are many antichrists, there is also The Antichrist. He emerges at the consummation of time. In the final end of all things.

obviously this is not a single man. although it is headed by a man at the top. and this is the man the bible refers to as the man of sin.

So why are you still arguing? You should admit your error for calling the antichrist a system. You keep contradicting yourself. I have said the antichrist is a man much bigger than mohammed, you came here to say it's false doctrine, and that the antichrist is a system and not a man. Now you're saying the antichrist is the head of a system, further affirming my earlier assertions. You seem confused.

every single characteristic of the antichrist described by both daniel and john has been met by the popes and the vatican. they changed the times and laws the calender you use today is known as the gregorian calender who is gregory? well it is pope gregory who changed it from the julian calender, they persecuted the saints, they have blasphemed God, they have claimed to be God on earth.[/quite]

The antichrist would come to do these on a greater scale. The Popes have not claimed to be God on earth. No one is worshipping them as God. The antichrist would be worshipped as god in his days.

the pope is literally sitting in the temple of God now. you are greatly wrong when you say the temple is literal, no! it is figurative. there is no passage of the bible that says another temple will be rebuilt. you are wrong.

The pope is not sitting in the temple of God. You're wrong. The temple he's sitting on in Rome is not the temple of God. The Israelites understand the temple of God to be Solomon's temple. God didn't confuse them with the use of the word :Temple.' The clearly understood what Daniel meant. They were not in error. No new testament writer sought to change that narrative because it's correct. You're interpolating. If you say the temple referred to here is spiritual, are you saying the pope sits in you? He does not sit in me!

Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you,
whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at
a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
Acts 17:24 (KJV)
God who made the world and all things therein, seeing that He is
Lord of Heaven and earth, dwelleth not in TEMPLES MADE WITH
HANDS. acts 17:24. so why will God regard another temple whme christ has died and the temple disregarded and destroyed.

This is new testament temple of God. It was Daniel that made mention of the temple of God. That's an old testament prophecy with a literal interpretation. You mean the Pope would sit inside the people of God and rule as God?

[quote]the new testament temple is the body of christ which is the church.
and the pope is in the church calling himself the head of the christian faith. the pope is not the head ,christ is the head.
if you think that a second temple will be rebuilt so that the antichrist will go in there one day then you have been decieved. all that is actually a distraction from the vatican itself since they own the land of israel since the days of the crusades.

this is why christ have to be the high priest because he is in us through the holy spirit

if you miss the symbolical representation of prophecy you will miss the point.

Now, you see where you missed it. The pope claims to be the head of the church but he's not the head. The Bible didn't say the antichrist would claim to be the head. The Bible didn't say he'll make any claim but rather, he'll sit as God in the temple! Not just making claims. He'll literally promulgate himself as God. He'll force people to worship him. Has any pope done that?

the image of the beast is actually another nation and not a literal image that will be made. this image is the united states of america but that is a discussion for another day.
it is america who will enforce the mark of the beast. because the vatican founded and developed america, the american flag is actually the flag of a jeusit company and that country is the company of the vatcian. go find out. that is the reason why the white house is patrerned after saint Peters basilica. google it.[quote]All these conspiracy theorists. Even if the pope founded America as you claimed, that does not make America the image of the beast.

[quote]now concerning the revealing of the lawless one. even though paul used the word he. studies from daniel and reveltion shows this to be a system headed by a man. any man who assumes this position is the man of sin because this man is to come up at the fall of the roman empire untill the end of time.

I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
-- Daniel 7:21

Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom
-daniel 7:22


do you see the above verse parrallels the book of 2 thessalonians?

obviously the little horn is a small political kingdom so this is talking about a system but headed by a person. same entity with revelation17:18 in that passage it is clearly revelaed to be a city.!/quote]

I have said the antichrist is a ma. Not a system.

[quote ]now concerning the restrainer , one part of scripture explains and gives more detail about what another scripture says. and this is true when we study the book of daniel, we see where the antichrist arose from. the little horn came up among the ten horn which are part of the fractured roman empire.
the restrainer has been for long interpreted as the holy spirit, this is not true. the bible never said that. paul told the early christians what the restrainer was. now lets go back and find out

Look at the words of TERTULLIAN 150ad. Quoting
Thessalonians, he says : ” Now ye know what detaineth that he might be revealed in
his time, for the mystery of iniquity doth already work ; only he who now hinders must
hinder until he be taken out of the way. What obstacle is there but the ROMAN STATE ;
the falling away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms, shall introduce
antichrist, CHRYSOSTOM 347ad- ‘he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.’ That is, when the Roman empire is taken out of the way, then he shall come ; and naturally, for as long as the fear of this empire lasts, no one will readily exalt himself; but when that is dissolved, he will attack the anarchy, and endeavour to seize upon the government both of men and of God. For as the kingdoms before this were destroyed, that of the Medes by the Babylonians, that of the Babylonians by the Persians, that of the Persians by the Macedonians, that of the Macedonians by the Romans, so will this be by antichrist’, and he by Christ.

HIPPOLYTUS -on the great image and four wild beasts of Daniel : ” The golden
head of the image,” he says, “is identical with the lioness, by which the Babylonians were represented ; the shoulders and the arms of silver are the same with the bear, by which the Persians and Medes are meant ; the belly and thighs of brass are the leopard, by which the Greeks who ruled from Alexander onwards are intended ; the legs of iron are the dreadful and terrible beast, by which the Romans who hold the empire now are meant ; the toes of clay and iron are the ten horns which are to be;the one other little horn springing up in their midst is the antichrist


the above shows the belief of the early christians before this doctrine was corrupted by the vatican through their jesuits.


the book of daniel shows us where and how the antichrist sprung out from and this is the fourth beast which is the roman empire of which without its fall the little horn or the antichrist would it have sprung up to persecute the saints of God through the inquisition. if you think that the restrainer is the Christians or the holy spirit then you are wrong.

the antichrist has already decieved the world with lying wonders go research the apearance of fatima in Turkey. nevertheless more of that holographic appearance will still be use to stage a final deception.

the bible never said the antichrist will make peace in israel. the peace and safety refers to world wide peace treaty after a world wide catastrophic event in other to usher in the mark of the beast. this event is known as the great tribulation of which christ will come immediately after to render destruction upon the earth.

In few words:

1. The scriptures say "He who hinders will hinder until he be taken out of the way." If it were the Roman empire as you claim, there's nothing stopping Paul from saying "That, which hinders would hinder until it be taken out of the way." The word 'He' as used in the verse was not a mistake.

The appearance of Fatimo does not make the whole world to follow after the pope or worship him. Does it?

The Popes as well as many other figures in history have fulfilled a fractional part of the antichrist prophecies. This does not make them the antichrist. When the antichrist comes, he would fulfil all his prophecy to the letter. So much so that there'll be no need to argue because it would be very clear.

[quote author=EMILO2STAY post=127027159]

you are wrong. the roman empire fell in 476 amd the popes where granted state power in 538 by justinian hence the rise of the antichrist who revealed himself by the persecution of the saints.after the fall of the roman empire so you wrong here.

Absolutely wrong. Ever before the fall of Rome, the papacy had gained a lot of political power so much so that the Popes were more respected than the Emperors. After Rome fell, the popes were granted significant temporal state power with the Donation of Pepin in 756 AD. This donation was a formal grant by Pepin the Short, the King of the Franks, to Pope Stephen II, providing the Pope with territories in central Italy. The donated lands formed the basis of the Papal States, a political entity directly governed by the Pope.

The Donation of Pepin was later reaffirmed by Charlemagne, Pepin's son, who expanded the territories of the Papal States. The Pope's temporal authority over these lands continued for many centuries, and the Papal States played a crucial role in the political landscape of medieval Italy.

It's worth noting that the popes' control over the Papal States persisted until the 19th century when the Italian unification process led to the capture of Rome by Italian forces in 1870. This event marked the end of the temporal power of the popes, and the Papal States were gradually incorporated into the newly unified Kingdom of Italy. The Lateran Treaty of 1929, between the Holy See and the Kingdom of Italy, established the Vatican City as an independent city-state, ensuring the continued sovereignty of the Pope within its borders.

the bible says the image of the beast cause all both small and great to recieve a mark. in bible prophecy the symbolical representation of a beast is a kingdom or political nation so the image of the beast must be a poilitical nation resembling th first beast which is actually a political nation. so this is not talking of a single man that came out of no where so you are also wrong here

you say the pope does not have any global power? now I know how naive you are. the roman empire was the strongest kingdom on earth in its time and this empire gave that power to the catholic church through justinains decree and constantine who literaly left rome to constantinople in turkey. leaving the popes to control what was left of the roman kingdom. you need history
the popes controlled the world and the kings of this world untill napoleon arrested him in 1798.

in 1929 they where given the state power napoleon took from them.

the popes run the world through their networks of jesuits. the sinking of the titanic, the first world war, the second world war, the killing of abraham lincoln and jfk the assasination plot of king james of england, the great depression of 1929 was all the handy work of the jesuits. every thing you see today happening is run and controlled by the vatican through the jesuits. the foumder of the jesuit is ignatius of loyola he was actually a member of the spanish alumbrados which you call illuminati today. adam weishaupt the founder of the modern day illuminati is a jesuit and a proffesor of the canon law of the catholic church. I can go on and on but let me stop here .

the antichrist is not just a man but a system headed and succeeded by men otherwise it would not fulfill the prophecy of daniel, Thessalonians and revelation.

You are relating the history of a system that has not been disputed by me. There is a system and there is a man. The man of Sin. The antichrist. Satan's own christ. I mean the counterfeit christ. His number is 666. The Bible says it is the number of a man."

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six." Revelation 13:18

Not the number of a system or the number of some men. The system will produce the man. There is nothing in Bible prophecy that identifies the antichrist as a system. In all Eschatology, the antichrist is a man. A ruler that shall come forth in the very last days. You focus on the system and lose sight of the man that shall emerge from the system.

EMILO2STAY:
FxMasterz .

you still do not understand. the man occupying the position as at the time of the second coming of christ is the son of perdition. thats is the one destined for destruction. also there is actually no difference between antichrist and antichrists because john said they came out of us but where not of us. in other words this antichrist is a system , an organistion. you should understand it is more about a system and not the person. have you checked the numerical equivalent of vicarious filli die?

Yes. The man at the help of the affairs of the works at Christ's second coming is the antichrist.

1 John 2:19 King James Version (KJV)
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they
would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be
made manifest that they were not all of us.

from the above you can see that john refers to the antichrist as "they"....

No, John did not refer to the antichrist as they. Rather, John was talking about brethren who left the church to go and propagate strange doctrines. These brethren said Christ never died for sins. They also said the laws of Moses and all the old testament rites must be observed. John called them antichrists and said "the spirit of the antichrist is already at work." Surprisingly this people were not part of the papacy whom you called the antichrist.

also you will notice that in the book of thessalonians the antichrist was already here before christ came.

Are you saying the antichrist was already here before Christ was born? No. There can't be an antichrist before the real Christ.

If you meant that the antichrist was here before Christ's second coming, then yes. He'll be ruling the world in a one world government.

[quotethis is in agreement with the book of daniel 7:21-22. but according to the theory you hold it is not so. and also paul said that the apostasy/ falling away must happen for the antichrist to be revealed. this apostasy is what john too is talking about. the bible is in agreement with it self. because the antichrist came out of the christian church but did not behave like the true church and the restrainer which is the roman empire crumbled in other for the roman catholic church to come to power hence the revealling of the antichrist.

Yes, there'll be a falling away, an apostasy. The Roman Empire wasn't the restrainer. Infact the Roman Empire begat the Roman Catholic church and prepared the ground for the emergence of the papacy. The papacy already existed before the fall of the Roman Empire.

do you think a single man will just come out of no where and start rulling the world?

Yes. He'll institute one world currency and cause everyone to have his mark 666. Otherwise no one would be able to buy or sell.

for any man to have any kind of political influence and power then tthey have to occupy a political office. if you are not seeing it this way then you are childish in reasoning.the pope is both a monarch, a head of state like a president and the bishop is all bishops. above arrest ,above prosecution no man is more powerful than the popes. presidents even kiss his hand and feet. open your eyes.

The pope does not have global power. He's respected but has not authority over any nation. His authority dies not go beyond the Vatican. The antichrist has global power and would cause everyone everywhere to receive his mark. They'll not be able to buy or sell without it.

in the book of daniel seven we see ten nations represented as horns arising from the fourth beast. among them a little horn which is a little nation .

there is no nation without a figure head or ruler. this is same with the little horn and it is signified by daniel as having eyes and mouth of a man. this goes to show that there is a man in some sort of prominent way in that little nation. this
little nation arose at the fall of the roman empire and is to continue till the coming of christ.[,/quote]

There are different theories regarding the 10 nations and the little horn. The Antichrist can emerge from the papacy but the papacy is not the antichrist. Also, the antichrist is a distinct individual. Not a system.

now let me ask you do you think that the man described by daniel in the little horn will live on from the time of the fall of the roman empire till the end of the world when christ will come? yet the bible said the same horn made war with the saints untill christ came. the same horn blasphamed God and changed the times and laws. you think all these will be done in the future? no! it has been done already by the popes go find out.

the bible said the same horn that arose at the fall of the roman empire is the same horn that persecuted the saints and is the same horn that was destroyed by christ at his cominng so tell me who will live that long? notice the bible refers to the horn which is a little nation but headed by a man. so it has to be an office or a position which has to be succeeded by men for the prophecy to come to pass

.

Where you missed it is that you couldn't differentiate the system that produces the Antichrist from the antichrist himself.

I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
-- Daniel 7:21

Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
-- Daniel 7:22


this same little horn in the book of daniel 7 is what john the revelator also revealed but with a different symbolic representation as the LovePeddler of babylon drunk with the blood of the saints, who rides the beast.

The antichrist is man. Not a system. Get that right. A system would produce.him but he's distinct from that system. He's an individual.

EMILO2STAY:
FxMasterz .


you still do not understand. the man occupying the position as at the time of the second coming of christ is the son of perdition. thats is the one destined for destruction. also there is actually no difference between antichrist and antichrists because john said they came out of us but where not of us. in other words this antichrist is a system , an organistion. you should understand it is more about a system and not the person. have you checked the numerical equivalent of vicarious filli die?

1 John 2:19 King James Version (KJV)
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they
would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be
made manifest that they were not all of us.

from the above you can see that john refers to the antichrist as "they"....

also you will notice that in the book of thessalonians the antichrist was already here before christ came. this is in agreement with the book of daniel 7:21-22. but according to the theory you hold it is not so. and also paul said that the apostasy/ falling away must happen for the antichrist to be revealed. this apostasy is what john too is talking about. the bible is in agreement with it self. because the antichrist came out of the christian church but did not behave like the true church and the restrainer which is the roman empire crumbled in other for the roman catholic church to come to power hence the revealling of the antichrist.

do you think a single man will just come out of no where and start rulling the world?

for any man to have any kind of political influence and power then tthey have to occupy a political office. if you are not seeing it this way then you are childish in reasoning.the pope is both a monarch, a head of state like a president and the bishop is all bishops. above arrest ,above prosecution no man is more powerful than the popes. presidents even kiss his hand and feet. open your eyes.

in the book of daniel seven we see ten nations represented as horns arising from the fourth beast. among them a little horn which is a little nation .

there is no nation without a figure head or ruler. this is same with the little horn and it is signified by daniel as having eyes and mouth of a man. this goes to show that there is a man in some sort of prominent way in that little nation. this
little nation arose at the fall of the roman empire and is to continue till the coming of christ.

now let me ask you do you think that the man described by daniel in the little horn will live on from the time of the fall of the roman empire till the end of the world when christ will come? yet the bible said the same horn made war with the saints untill christ came. the same horn blasphamed God and changed the times and laws. you think all these will be done in the future? no! it has been done already by the popes go find out.


the bible said the same horn that arose at the fall of the roman empire is the same horn that persecuted the saints and is the same horn that was destroyed by christ at his cominng so tell me who will live that long?
notice the bible refers to the horn which is a little nation but headed by a man. so it has to be an office or a position which has to be succeeded by men for the prophecy to come to pass.

I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
-- Daniel 7:21

Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
-- Daniel 7:22


this same little horn in the book of daniel 7 is what john the revelator also revealed but with a different symbolic representation as the LovePeddler of babylon drunk with the blood of the saints, who rides the beast.

Now, let's look at the scriptures together for clarity. The scriptures are clear regarding the doctrine of the antichrist, I find it really unsettling that someone is misinterpreting the whole thing and ascribing some super-knowledge unto himself.

Let's look at the Epistle of Paul to the Thessalonians.

2Thessalonians 2

1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.

Summary
Don't fret whenever you're told that Jesus can come any moment, has come or is coming soon.

The following verses tell us why:

3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

Summary
Jesus would not come until there's a great apostasy. The falling away. Jesus said in Mathew 24 that the love of many would wax cold.
There'll be serious spiritual lukewarmness enveloping the church, then in the midst of that global apostasy, a certain man is revealed or exposed or made known. This man is doomed for destruction. This is not a system. It's a man. All the systems of the world are doomed for destruction. So, there's no point in singling out a system as being doomed for destruction. We'll see further below that this is a man, not a system.

4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

[b,] Explanation[/b]
He will exalt himself over EVERYTHING that's called God. Not just the Christian God. He'll claim to be over all.gods. in the book of Revelation, he'll cause the whole world to bow to his image in worship. Revelation 13:15. He would sit as god in God's Temple. This is 100% literal. He'll declare himself a god, and infact, the only god in the temple in Jerusalem. I find it amusing that you said the temple in question is our body which truly is the temple of the living God. The devil cannot sit as god in the temple of any child of God, neither can a Pope. The temple referred to here is a physical temple.

5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.

Summary
Something is holding him back. He'll be exposed at the proper time. He'll be made known at the appointed time. A system is an 'It', a person is a 'he'. He'll be revealed. Not 'it would be revealed.' This isn't a system.


7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

Summary
The system of the antichrist. The spirit of the antichrist. The power of the antichrist is already at work. The antichrist spirit is already in the world. It was in the world even in Paul's days. The system is eager to produce the man of lawlessness but there's Someone holding back the system. Once the Person holding back the system is removed from the scene, then the lawless one will be revealed - The antichrist. The Lord will destroy him by the Brightness of His Coming.

9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."

Summary
The lawless one would deceive the whole world through lying signs and wonders and lying miracles. The first miracle is that he'll bring peace to the Middle East. The peace would however be short-lived. Paul went further to say "When they shall say peace and safety (in the Middle East), then sudden destruction would come upon them." As part of his lying miracles, he would erect an image of himself. This image would become animated and begin to speak, and force everyone to bow in worship to him. Revelation 13:15.

Now, let me dissect your post above.

advocatejare:
I’m enjoying the submission of the two of you!

It’s highly educating

Thank you brother. Remain blessed in Jesus name.

EMILO2STAY:
you clearly have not sudied your bible. the popes have a title it is known as "vicarious fili dei" go find out the numerical equivalent of that word.

of course the bible calls him the man of sin. the man of sin is that same as the little hrn with eyes and mouth of a man in the book of daniel. a horn represents a political entity or kingdom the significance of the eyes and mouth in that little horn is that the little kingdom has a man sitted in great positon with authority.

clearly you have not studied the bible when it comes to the issue of the antichrist ,when you do ,you will discover that it fits no other than the vatican.

in case you dont know the vatican has been running the world since 538AD untill now.

My brother. We're not talking about antichrists but the antichrist?

"And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the brightness of His coming” (2 Thessalonians 2:.

We're talking about the lawless one and not the lawless ones.

EMILO2STAY:
that is where you are wrong. the antichrist is not just one person as the bible says there are many antichrist. also the bible said they came out of us but where not part of us.
see the fact of the matter is that this anitchrist position has more to do with the position and not the person. its an office , a system occupied/ governed by a person or a man symbolized by the eyes and mouth of that little but stout horn of daniel 7. that is why they have to exist from the fall of the roman empire untill the second coming of christ. the last man standing in that office when christ comes is that man of sin who will be destroyed by christ himself. read the book of revelation about the woman riding a beast. this woman is referring to the system / the entity run by the antichrist which is the vatican. the bible also said that the woman is that great city which sits on seven hills. lo and behold the vatican city state literally sits on seven hills. and one of the hills is called capitol hill which the white house of the usa government is named after. america is actually the lamb like beast that arose from the earth. let me stop here .

but I am looking forward to engage you properly tomorrow.

You're muddling things up and confusing yourself!

The Bible clearly calls him the man of sin, gave his number as the number of a man - 666, told us clearly that he'll head a one world government and several other prophecies like that. Why are you turning the script I upside down? I'll find time for you today. I'll be back.

EmekaStanley:
I just saw a video of Pa Adeboye testifying that God paused winter for his sake in the US because he has issues with cold, and that about 2 hours after he left, everywhere was covered with snow.

Well, as expected there were comments, including from 'Christians' making mockery of the testimony. The reality is that 'wetin person no know or experienced pass am'. There is nothing God cannot do to preserve those who love him.

I was not there when this happened so I cannot attest to it or doubt that it happened but from experience, there is absolutely nothing God can't do, including what he testified.

Many years ago, I stayed with an uncle in a 3 bedroom apartment. For some reason, I had to share a room with his younger sister who was elderly to me.

So this meant that I set boundaries for myself; I had limits to things I chose not to do so I don't have any kind of issues with her, including turning on/off the air conditioner in the room whenever she is around.

On a fateful day, I was feeling slightly feverish, and the Air conditioner was on. I couldn't put it off or ask her to put it off because she needed it after the day's hustle.

When it was time to retire for the night, with the AC blowing at 16 degrees Celsius and room chilled, I didn't know what to do.

I went inside the room, I silently prayed to God that I wanted the air conditioner to blow hot air so that I can be warm and sleep well. I curled myself together and slept off.

I woke up few hours later sweaty and warm and the air conditioner was still on. I looked at my Aunty, she was still covered with the blanket.

What I cannot tell is how I was sweaty when the AC was still on, and someone in the same room was wrapped with blanket.

The point is, there is nothing too difficult for God to do, in his own ways.

Unless you have great discernment to spot lies in testimonies, don't doubt the testimonies of people no matter how impossible they may sound or appear.

Being impossible in your own understanding doesn't mean the same with God.

God parted the red sea for the Israelites to cross over. It sounds unbelievable but early videos of Ron Wyatt exploring that area found evidence that this happened.

Summarily, there is nothing impossible for God. Period.


ES

God bless you brother. I would share an unbelievable testimony I have always kept to myself because people would never believe it if you share it with them.

The year was 1988. I was home from school. It was during the Holidays. My dad had just resigned from his job to float a business jointly with my mum at the time. Dad left money for the home one of those days and travelled. He kept longer than expected on the journey. The money he left us finished and there was nothing for us to live on anymore. We prepared the last meal for the home that morning and set out with mum to the business place.

My sister, the last born was still young at the time, so mum used to arrange foods for her in a plastic basket whenever we were going to the business office. I was the one who cleaned and tidied the basket that morning before arranging food inside it. Then, we set off. As I said, we prepared the last meal that morning and there was no hope for the afternoon. We just became Christians a few years back. We were formally freethinkers after dad abandoned Islam. When we asked mum how we go take chop for the rest of the days, she replied "God will provide."

We got to the office and set to work. Around 9am when my sister said she'll like to eat, we offloaded her food from the basket to give to.her, only to find ₦30 at the base of the basket after packing out the foods. 3 ₦10 new notes. Mints. ₦30 was not small money in 1988. Till today, nobody can explain how that ₦30 got there. We were all dumbfounded that morning and knew it can only be God.

God is infinite. Nothing can limit Him. When He decides to act, He doesn't have 'impossibility' in His dictionary.

Pastor Adeboye's testimony is true. He can't share such a testimony in falsehood. There are Canadian witnesses before whom his credibility may be called to question if he had shared the testimony in deceit.

Pastor E.A Adeboye is not an ordinary man. You need to visit Redemption Camp in Lagos to know more about him. The level of supernatural manifestations in his life is beyond ordinary. Don't take my word for it. Go and verify. You don't know why all men of God in Nigeria and outside respect him. He doesn't shout or make noise. This testimony he shared was shared during a sermon in the church. It was not given to pressmen. You wouldn't have heard anything if it was not relevant to the sermon he was preaching. He didn't share it to brag.

EMILO2STAY:
it the same thing, 7years of tribulation is same as 7 years of covenant with israel. neither is found in the bible . and yes I am actually puffed up because I kbpw what I am talking about, I can only boast in these and nothing else.

for your info there is nothing happening in the middle east that concerns the antichrist and his emergence. if you doubt me prove it with scripture.

the antichrist has already emerge sinceover 1700years ago.

the four beasts represent four world powers that will emerge starting from babylon. as at the time of this prophecy daniel was in babylon which is the most powerful nation as at that time. then after babylon the medo persians overthrew the kingdom of babylon to become the world power. after medo persia came greece and after greece came the roman empire which where in power as at the time of christ.

is rome still standing today? you know the answer.

looking at daniels prophecy about the fourth kingsom which is rome. indeed the fourth kingdom scattered into ten different kingdoms. which are in europe today. and among these ten european kingdoms came a small but powerful kingdom in there midst. it came last but very powerful that kingdom is no other than the vatican city state.

the vatican rose to power at the fall of the roman empire when constantine the left rome and handed over control of rome to the popes. this era marked the start of the holy roman empire controlled by the popes.

the popes has blasphemed God and claimed to be God on earth , am sure this is not new to you. plus the vatican through its inquisition has persecuted the saints of God for over 1000years and will still do so. the world you amd I live in is owned and controlled by the vatican. the popes is the very man of sin whom christ will destroy with the breath of his mouth.

pls go read the book of daniel and then do your research

Tomorrow, I'll engage you comprehensively as I need to go to bed right now. But, for now, you need to understand that while the antichrist is a singular entity who heads a one world government, the papacy has seen several popes since the the Roman Catholic church was founded. While the Popes are indeed antichrists, they are not the antichrist because the antichrist is one person - a man. The man (not the men) of sin.

EMILO2STAY:
lol funny you. you have believed a wrong doctrine. to start with where did the bible mention a seven year tribulation?.

now to inform you, the book of daniel starting from chapter 7 revealed the truth about the antichrist and where he will emerge from.

in daniels vision he saw four beast which represent babylon ,medo persia, greece and rome. rome beeing the fourth kingdom scattered into ten kingdom represented by the seven horns and among these seven horns came up a litttle horn with the eyes and mouth of a man. these little horn blasphemed God and persecuted the saint untill christ came and destroyed him. these events chronicled by daniel has already played out in reality remaining just the final persecution of the saints and the return of christ.

these events are the same thing john the revelator spoke about in the book of revelation abouth the beast that rose out of the sea and the woman riding a dragon are one and same antichrist entity.

now concerning the things you listed every thing there is wrong. the new testament temple is the body and not a physical place.
daniels 70weeks prophecy has been fulfilled at the destruction of jerusalem the abomination of desolation is idolatry. there is no single passage in the bible that says antichrist is making a covenant. go read your bible.


but if you still doubt me I can school you more.

First, I never mentioned a 7yr tribulation. So I don't know the source of that question of yours.

Would you please prove that the events surrounding the emergence of the little horn which blasphemed God have already played out in reality?

This doctrines you hold are unbalanced and false. You need to explain yourself with relevant scriptural and historical references. There's still no peace in the middle east as we speak. Perhaps you don't know that one of the major marks for identifying the antichrist is that he'll bring peace to to the Palestinian conflict. You're studying the Bible alone without allowing yourself to be taught. You can't be a lone ranger in these things. School me? You're puffed up.

EMILO2STAY:
this is false. the beast has since emerged and the antichrist which is one of the ten horns has already emerged. the next thing to follow is the great tribulation after which christ will descend. there is no where in the bible where antichrist is making a covenant with israel that is a false doctrine.

You're the one peddling a false doctrine. You need to prove your strange doctrine by the scriptures. I'll be open to that. There's no eschatological foundations for any doctrine that says the Beast has emerged.

Where are the two prophets that stand as witnesses before the God of the whole earth? Where is the Temple in Jerusalem where the antichrist would make a 7yr covenant with Israel? Has that temple even be built? Where's the abomination that maketh desolate? Does the antichrist now rule the whole world? Is the mark of the beast 666 now in effect? Are we now in the last week of Daniels 70 weeks? All that I just listed are contemporary events with the antichrist. Now, prove your doctrine. I'll be willing to hear you.

AntiChristian:
Same thing!
Your gods too are deceivers too!

Why is it difficult for your holy spirit to accept

My gods too? I have no gods!

And speak for your god okay? There's no same thing. Your god says he's a deceiver. Deal with that. Don't drag my God into it saying my God too.. it's your god who's a deceiver. Not mine. Thanks though for now confessing the truth about your false god.

AntiChristian:
Your interpreters too couldn't be telling lies too!

Deal with that!

They're not my interpreters. They're islamic interpreters. Even wikilslam interpreted it as "Allah is the best of deceivers." Look at the screenshot again. I reattached it.

Your chosen Interpreters, in order to hide the truth, deliberately mistranslated the verse to say '"Allah is the best of schemers." Meanwhile, there's no Arabic dictionary in the world where Al-makr is translated to mean scheme.

AntiChristian:
Since you accept this post here you should accept mine too!

But you're simply a hypocrite!

A Christian liar and supporter of lies!

I didn't accept this post completely. I made my objections known in the spirit of honesty. Can you ever do that?Where is yours? You never said anything but lies. Lies upon lies. Can't you see? Is Al-makr not deception? You couldn't even defend it. Does calling us liars make us one if when we have not lied? We called you a liar with proofs. You brought scriptures verses out deceptively, you were exposed! You claimed Israel was an aggressor against Palestinians,you were exposed! You claimed Israel is a land grabber, you were exposed! You claimed my brother misinterpreted Al-makr, you were exposed. I've attached the screenshot again with several Arabic dictionaries telling you that Al-makr means deception! Can't you see or can you not read? All 10 Arabic dictionaries cannot be liars!

AntiChristian:
I knew you will shift the goal post you said I shouldn't shift! You'll have excuses for everything but Muslims shouldn't have excuses as they don't have one as you have the Hollywood spirit!

When you mistranslated and misinterpreted our text it is not hypocrisy! When your Christian friend lied it was a misunderstanding!

Only Muslims are liars!

Anyone seeing this thread will immediately accept Jesus as Lord and saviour that can't save LIARS!

Thread of Hypocrites and ignoramuses!

Which goal post did I shift? Which excuses did I give? Where is the misinterpretation I gave? I even supported my stand on Al-makr with screenshots. Why are you guys so deceptive and earnestly allergic to truth. I have uploaded again the screenshot for the translation of Al-makr. What's really happening with you? My brother made an post and accepted correction after I pointed things out ti him, you insisted he's a liar ? What lie did he tell? Are you not truly an antichrist? You lifted verses out of scripture without explaining their context because you wanted them to say what those verses didn't say and I exposed your devilry. Is that hypocrisy? Is it that you hate truth this much? Some people don't want heaven. They deliberately chose hell for themselves. Am I concerned whether someone reading this becomes a Christian or not. Proselytization is the obsession of Islam because hell is the goal. I want people to make heaven! I want people to know that Jesus Christ is real! I want people to escape the torment of hell! I want people to know God! I want people to come to the knowledge of the truth! I want them to be saved! It doesn't matter whether they profess religion or not. What matters is that, they're heavens gain and hell's loss. I would not deceive people to think that Al-makr means something else when it most certainly meant deception.

AntiChristian:
Okay I won't shift any post, you too don't shift the goal post below!

This shows that you're very devilish. Instead of you to tackle the obvious exposure of Allah as deceiver by the tranlation of Al-makr as deception from several Arabic dictionaries, you decided to cover up by lying against the God of the Bible.

You've brought up these lies several times before in some of your antichrist threads, and each time, you were shown to be a liar. You abandoned those threads and ran away. You can only repeat the lies here just because you're the son of your father Satan - the deceiver, aka Allah.

Even the scripture.where Jeremiah thought God lied because some false prophets were prophesying falsehood in God's name saying Jerusalem shall not be destroyed. Meanwhile God told jeremiah that Jerusalem shall be destroyed. Jeremiah upon hearing that was asking God why He deceived the people through those prophets, and God told him 'I didn't send them. They sent themselves.' You now lifted it out of context to say only what jeremiah said without pointing out exactly what happened because you wanted to lie against the Almighty God. You're just doing the work of your Father , the deceiver.

I wouldn't discuss all those other scriptures you lifted out of context. I already exposed your satanic mission. Would you show me clearly where the Almighty God called Himself the deceiver like Allah did call himself?

AntiChristian:
Od course you will most likely. It's not today you guys have been mentioning taqqiya about Muslims!

And your bro mentioned in his post that Allah is a deceiver.

Did he asked for clarification before making the post?
He made the post based on the falsehood you call misunderstanding...

Allah is the truth wallah!

You're only friends to yourselves!

Are you trying to shift the goalposts?

Why do you love deception so much? My bro didn't make any mistake in calling Allah a Deceiver. Allah himself called himself so.

Al-makr in Arabic translates to what again? Do you want to change the meaning of the word?