₦airaland Forum

I have loved and admired Oprah winfrey for several years.She is an icon for people generally. Oprah has built her show around certain values that most rappers do not fit in.Maybe a kanye may get her nod one of these days or the ex super star rappers who have now turned enterpreneurs but I dont think the message of most hip hop artistes/rappers fit into the Oprah agenda.

Why are they complaining.They have MTV !

haba!!

ATMs have been very helpful for me.Yes Interswitch is the dominant switch company.THis is beuacse they deployed their ATMs farther thna the competition and also because it is owned by several of the major banks in Nigeria.

This is the way it works, If you use it in the ATM of the bank that issued it, you withdraw from the machine without any extra charge outside normal transaction.If you use another bank apart from your bank, you are charged by that bank 100 naira apart from the amount your bank will normally charge.

You can only use it three times in a day and I think the maximum you can withdraw per transaction is 20,000.That means for a day, you can only withdraw a maximum of 60,000.

And the latest news is that the new cards coming can be used for the two ATM platforms in Nigeria.Quick cash (powered by Chams,I think ) and Interswitch.My friend who uses GTbank as I do said that is the resaon why his card is being delayed.This new 'generation cards' will be able to withdraw from the two platforms.

With the numebr of queue I see shen i go to withdraw, we need more machines deployed.It has reduced my need to use my chequebook except for serious withdrawals.

Lastly,ATM calls for serous dsicpline.That was what I found out the week I got mine.Something at the back of your mind tells you the money is available and you keep spending it like that. If you are given to impulsive buying, get a secondary account and do not place it on your ATM.

By the way, it took me about a month to get mine at GTbank.I learnt that it is easier now.

Hope this helps someone!

Why are Nigerians very negative about their country?Well,in my own opinion,for the vast majority of them,they look only at the very negative things about their country and look away from the improvements in some other areas.

Years back, I and my friends would gather and begin to yab this country about all that we have gone through;how things are not going very well.Our compalints nevr cahnged anything.And some of the attitudes I have seen some people show on this forum have been very negative to the point of suggesting that nothing good can come out Nigeria.Someone said something about our foreign reserves.That was the handywork of some people in a time of oppurtuntiy created by the oil price increase.We had this same oppurtunty in the past under IBB and we cant trace the money now.They did something and contributed something.In years to come,they will at least tell their childern that they did something for that country instead of just complaining about how Nigeria is not like Eldorado!

I have no apology to offer to anyone anywhere in the world that is reading this.I am a firm believer in this country,Nigeria.I see some of the many challenges that I face living and doing business here as an oppurtuntiy to think deeper and create value.Nigeria is not America or the Uk and I will not spend the better part of my life whining about it!!I have made up my mind that I will give all that I can to make this country better and make a success of my life here.

It is a choice that fuels my mind and help me create the kinds of oppurtunity for myself and those around me.You will not find me in the midst of people 'badmouthing' the country no matter what some of those silly politicians are doing.

Greatness comes from within us not necessarily around us. Any person who waits on the government entirely to do everything for it risks a lot.Ask the people who Hurricane Katrina killed.The nature of government is to create the right institutions and environment for people to thrive and make progress.Some people have chosen to be a step ahaed and work inspite of this lack of government responsibility.It is hard but people are making it against the odds.

Why are(some) Nigerians are very negative about their country? My piece:they are looking at the wrong things.

Much as Kimba has been criticised for his initial response, I would like to state that some of what he said his true,which mamaput buttressed as some point.It takes a certain level of greed to cooperate with this 419 people.The dmaage they are doing to our repu as Nigerain is incalculable and beyond what the EFCC is doing, there should be a more structured attempt at getting to those who do it on a consistent basis.The amount of negative imapct they have created for genuine business people is incalculable.

Just two months ago,I needed a quote from a company our client wanted some service for in South Africa. No sooner had I placed the call than the guy on the otehr end asked what part of west Africa I as calling from(the service is weather dependent).I mentioned Nigeria and he was almost calling the deal off.It took all of the assurances I could muster with a plea that I was not asking him for anything but that the information be sent to my box.Of course when he gave his quote, our payment term will be different since I am Nigerian.I was to make full payment before they come with their equipment;not part but all the money or the deal was off.

Now, for something that the internet will have helped implement,I may have to travel thousands of mile to show that we mean business.

What irks me more is that most of the 419 people are not particularly intelligent and It beats me how people fall for their scams.One called theother day and said he was a NNPC director with a contract for us.His English was so very, and someone will fall for that?

We really have to do more and deal with the big fishes in this business(thank God some are being arrested) as well as the numerous people who do these from the cybercafes with hope of a big paydayThey are the one who are most visible and can be beaten by sites like 419eaters.

I have not read the Davinci Code and I probably will not read it.Which also means that I will not watch the film either.But that I will lose sleep over it-no way!!!! I totally agree with Ajia's submissions;it is very mature even though we do not share the same faith since i am Christian.I enjoy debates and discourse with people of different faiths from mine because it helps me to be at grasp with the realities of the world around me in such a way that it makes the root of my Christian faith stronger.

As somneone said earlier,it is written in the same BIble that things like this will happen.So, why get worked up about it? For instance, Christ knew his crucifixion was certain and he did not say a word to trhe Roman ruler until he said he had the politiacl  power to deliver him.

What was written in the Davinci code is not new! Martin SCorcese  (hope I got that right) produced the temptation of Christ and as young as I was then, I knew that it had to do with just about the same theme that Christ had a sexual  fantasy over Mary.Did it limit the Church? No!! Has the film been forgtten? Yes!

In my own opinion about the Davinci Code and quoting the words of old preachers, this too shall pass!The unnecessry attention is given the film more money!

Hello KAG, see you are in the centre circle again.Have a great day!

Yes o!Nuru.
The point with te way KAG reason in this discourse is simply this:He dose not accept that there is an intelligence that science cannot explain.To suggest there is is to really extract the kinds of responses we have been reading so far.

Summary:anything that you cannot explain within the scope of intelligence that acquired through science does not exist!that is the reasoning that fules the 'cockiness' of 'very intelligent people' who wonder if religious people can be intelligent at all.

@constantin,
It is not one of those pipe dreams.I happen to know someone who knows the people involved in the project.The project has been approved and i believe that they should start anytime soon.I really cant say anything more as enthusiastic as I am about the project.Still trying to track an online report of the story but as soon as I am done, I will have it posted.

Even though I am not from Bayelsa,you guys should watch out for that state.They got some things lined up in tourism that will really catch everyone by Suprise.And what can one say about the Cross River State efforts;from Obudu to their yearly christmas celebrations.It is really getting interesting.

Great things are indeed happening.I have also learnt that the Bayelsa State government is about to build some very nice hotels along their wonderful beachline.This is in addition to the $200 million dollar mega city project they have just commisioned a South African design firm to undertake in Yenagoa.

The government is investing in tourism,especially coming on the heels of teh kinds of attention the AMAA awrds brought teh state.

Against my prediction that you'd attempt to explain certain phenomenon,you have spent quite sometime attnding to every words.You are so detailed.The trick you reffred to can you humour me and expalin it?

Better still how does David Copperfeild allow himself to be tied and locked up in a safe at the top of a building loaded with explosives;blown up and emerges from underneath a cloth with an inscription? Oh! It is just a trick.

Really, please explain that trick using this great natural intelligence you are endowed with.I will only write that for now seeing that you do so much anatomy on my ordinary post!

PS: I am enjoying your response KAG.

Sorry evryone, in my last post in refrence to the 'Agemo' example, I meant 'round mat'

@idekeson,
The question really is  not that being a religious person means that one denies the role of science.I think no one has alluded to that yet!what we are saying is  simply to establish if whether  that being religious implies less intelligence.And in doing so, I have arrived at that point where intelligence that the non-religious person has may not be entirely adequate for the intelligent explanation of certain things we have in life.

I said in the post before this that what people who believe that all intelligence is natural do is to deny the existence of such realities and assume a superior state over people who in addition to ackowledging natural intelligence, recognise that there are issues beyond our natural intelligence.

I dont think that with kinds of changes that are taking place now, that someone of her stature will be stopped from getting there.She has paid her dues but according to report this morning on This day newspaper,the presidency may be  going to the South south and the two people being considered are Victor Odili and Donald Duke.

In my last post, I wrote about the vidictiveness of Baba Iyabo.The core north that opposed his thrid term essentially will lose out and to silence them, it will be one of those dark horses that Nigerians know have done very well that will be favourable to the Media.I may be wrong but I think it is not impossible.Odili is onlt the initail consideration.The candiday may swing any way.REmemeber that until Ken Nnamani showed courage,this government had no back up plan.No candidate was in line.

And Mrs Okonjo Iweala will be a candidate or she will play a role in choosing who should go from the economic team.That foreign reserve by the way will be an issue in deciding the next president.It will knock most of the front runners now out and the media may back the choice of someone close to the economic team.Someone whose performnace was not the result of his political ability but performance.

Most of them in PDP leadership know that it is over and we hope that like Samson, Onasanjo will help pull the house down on every one of them who thought they can hold this country to ransome.

@KAG Wouldn't that be akin to the placebo effect? Which like acts of faith, also results in sometimes "miraculous" occurences
I have only selected this from the lists of your responses to my post and |I do only because they have the same theme(your response that is).you will never attempt to explain it.You can give it a name but you cannot explain.you will not deny it but you cannot explain it.Notice that you could not explain the trick you acknowledged.In fact the very fact that you acknowledged that it was a 'trick' within the very explainable elements of science that we see and experience with our senses-which forms the very basis of the natural intelligence that religion transcends -suggests to me that you know that there are such experiences.

A religious person can give you an explanation for such things that cannot be explained.At l;east |I know there are explanations in the Bible for such occurrence and it is not the placebo effect.That is psychological! WE are talking about people who were diagnosed with terminal illnesses.

And in your response to death, you(and infact anyone who takes your line of argument) will stumble here.You cant explain it with your natural intelligence. Watch close as this discourse goes that all of you will come to that point where you attribute what you don't know to something very close that your natural intelligence will carry.

I will indulge you in another puzzle:If you ever get to hear of an agemo festival in Yoruba land, attend it if you can-if not for anything but for the purpose of this discourse.The Agemo is a round that people generally believe is inhabited by a person.The only problems is the fact it can become flat all of a sudden.How does the intelligence that you boast of explain that?Where did the supposed person inside it go?what happened to his innards? I repeat what natural laws of intelligence were at play?

OK.I imagine your response.It is just, and then you go quiet.The men who practice these things and many other things will laugh at you.Our people have a proverb 'Omo kekere o mo ogun.On pe ni efo"( It is only a child that does not know the power of a charm that calls it vegetable)

people,there is more to this life than meets the eye!

PS: And when I said that death was uncertain, i meant people really dont know when it will come;not that the act of giving up the ghost is uncertain.And since I remembered that, where do people go when they die?Is death merely the absence of oxygen in the lungs?

The  first clarification has been made by syrup and I think Zeb added to the issue by showing people who tend to believe that religious people are unintelligent because they have closed their minds to the fact that there may be life outside the realm of the five senses and to suggest that there is implies a deficiency in intelligence.

Science has done so much for us through discoveries and our ability to use same to better our lives  but there are many thing that science will not unravel that we witness daily.A few years ago, TIMES magazine carried a report on its front page that says 'Can we believe in Miracles?' It was an investigative report that interviewed many medical practitioners who witnessed inexplicable changes from the acts of faith of certain patients.The magazine not being religious one concluded that there are indeed factors that works outside those controlled by the five senses.

A Scot friend and I had this discussion in 98 and she explains everything rationally.I asked her about David Copperfield,the great magician and what within her scientific discourse explain how an individual will in full glare of the press allow himself  tied down with chains and locked in  safe inside a building that was detonated with explosives.And she said it is a trick.I then asked her with her scientific knowledge to explain how the trick took place? It is in moments like this that the entire concept of intelligence that we know of come to their end.It is em.em, tele ki, em em,

How does a magician levitate and defy the laws of gravity.What of soul travel.Why are most Near death experiences so similar?Why do deities have such hold on people who can be considered very intelligent? How do people who indulge in money ritual actually get the money and how scientifically is in connected to the people they kill?

There is a world that we can not see and whether it is popular or not,something in us all crave for that world;that world where our sense and physical experiences cannot limit us.This craving is the reason why there has been an upsurge in the eastern religions in the past decade and it is the reason why the Harry Porter series was a best seller.


Often times when we are comfortable, we do not remember this but when life brings us face to face with uncertainties like death(what does our intelligence say about life after death,since we need to be sure) we come to place when we really evaluate our concept of intelligence.

The THisday Newspaper that came out the very next day the third term bill was thrown out said something about the many aides of Obasanjo that we may miss.One of the many pro third term adverts placed in AIT, with Mrs Oby Ezekwelizi being featured as one of the many things that Obasanjo accomplished, was said to have drawn the attetion of the woman who asked the Tv station to stop airing it.

According to that report,the decision to do that emboldened many of the presidential aides who were not for the third term agenda.This is very significant for the political desitiny of Nigeria because as we have seen the end of the need to extend Obasanjo's tenure,we will now witness the instalment of a president in order to defeat the many people who opposed Third term from IBB to Atiku and Buhari.I beleive that this is te next stage.

By Implication,the person that will be 'installed' will not be any of these men.That is the reason why we should expect the unexpected.IBB may have the money but the incumbent will deploy all tools of the state against the opposition and for the chosen one. Up until now,they never chose anyone because there was no back up plan for the third term agenda.A very stoic Ken Nnamani and Masari have foiled a plan that was devised before they became leaders in the Niational Assembly.

Stretching this theory further;with the kinds of credit that the economic team has received,do not be suprised if one of them is made more powerful to continue 'the many reforms of the government, Remember, we have a huge foreign reserve that is very juicy.If you think baba iyabo is stubborn, wait and see vindictiveness.
In the words of IBB, we dont know who will succeed us but we know those who wont.
Read between the lines.

I am all for her being made the president.What will then happen -hopefully- will be that she will surround herslf with credible people who know what to do.In case this does not work out, I am sincerely hoping that she or one any other person the economic team is in the leadership of thic country.Have you all noticed that no one cared that she is Igbo or a female.She gets the job done!

I read something interesting in the front page story of Thisday today, that as other politicians are realigning to take the place of Baba- since our senate in a rare show of courage threw out the 3rd thgerm agenda-the membeers of the economic team have also met to fashio out how they can bring up their own candidate!
This is getting very interesting.With a deep sigh after the death oif 3rd term, let us all watch what will happen.
Back to the topic: Ngozi Okonjo Iweala is a candidate for higher things in Nigeria and the presidency will not be bad place to take her dillegence!

Most-not all- other politiacins are after that foreign reserve!

@Jagnlabi,
I Statrted the response to your very unique argument against the grace of God yesterday and and some 'wahala' on the server prevented it from being posted.If I get your sbmisions right, I will be wondering like mlks_baby.Now I ave heard a lof of bizzare things on this thread aginst Christianity but this is indeed very novel;it is the grace of God that is allowing people to be sinful.If the same God who said there is a lake of fire if people do not repent before judgement were to be a little hard,people will be more righteous and from your example, sinful people will not be coming to church?

Stretching your argument further means then the minute you question this Grace thing from this very lenient God, He should have judged you.In fact, in some climes what you have suggested amounted to abominantion and you should face the death sentence!

Do you get it? The very grace that you criticize is the resaon why a Christian who understands that grace and acknowledges the grace over his/her life can tolerate what you have said.Do you know what Christ would have said to your scorn? Father forgive Him;he knows not what he is saying!

The grace you dont understand is at work with you then!

Is it a Quick Service Restaurant where basically snacks are sold or the regular restaurants?
For the tradiutional restaurant,check out Lascala juist nehind the MUSON.There service and food are wonderful ; the atmospehre is also very suitable.There manager's name is Mr. Levi.Dont know if he is still there sha.
Ocaenview is also okay.haven't been there but my friends say it is okay.
How about Golden gate? There are loads of upscale restaurant in the Ikoyi Victoria Island Axis.
Outside Lagos? I have no idea at all.Sorry!

mlks_Baby

THe hounds are out.They have tasted blood! Maybe you should let this thing go.You are not getting anywhere with these guys!And if I may had,the topi itself is a trap to imvite people of the Christia faith I and see if they can come into an endless argument.

All these guys who are waxing philosophy know like all humans that there are things in life beyond the scope of their understanding and knowledge.

In their heart is that thought 'what if, ? lingers.Daily,they drown it with arguments and presentations that tries to explain away a reality that they fear may exist.Anyone can pretend to have fun saying this but you never know what is in the heart of man.I have been there before and I can tell you the fear of everyone who scorns God!

And I hope that this will be posted!

@jagunlabi,

I have always admired your posts even though I may not necessarily agree with everything you say.Same with everyone else.But the thought that Karma frightens Christians is very very laughable.I have no response my friend cos' I am laughing so hard!!!

Frighten Christians indeed!!

By the way,does hell or that thought of a lake of fire frighten anyone?

I will take patrick Loco and that Japhet Chad in PSG in the early niniteis.They were the best.After they split,they went apart.

So sorry for the typos.Had to type in such state to respond;forgot to check my spellings!

If you this post had come sometime before I personally experienced it,It could have been explained away by some o the very 'intellectual' respose we have seen so far.I think all these non aknowledgement of spiritual reality is at the heart of some of the conflicts we have on this forum.There are people who will gladly scoff and ridicule the entire concept of a Spiritual God and in addition try to explain everything away with the closest semblance to science.'Paralysis' 'eating too much cheese'(Na wa O!) Even people who are African,who know and see the fact that there is a spirital in our midst!!Oh,it is so very modern to deny all this as the rantings of uninformed people.

Well, I have had this same experience too.I had several times over.For me,I knew from those who had beem deleivered fro such problems and from redaing the Bible that it was the name of Jesus that I had to call.But it was always so difficult to call that name.It was like a struggl;e but when i managed to call it,the 'holding down' stopped.

It was a book y Derek Prince that helped.It was on Spiritual warfare.And it thought that I had to meditate on the word of Bible to get into my spirit(yes, man has a spirit).I did that for days;meditating on Colossians 2:15.When next the experience happened in my dream,I had total and full control and I 'knew' that I would not have problems calling the name of Jesus.Since then,I have not had that experience again.I am totrally free of fear of spiritual attack of any kind.

If you are redaing this, I do not want to get to a point of arguing an encounterv i had with you bt listen to me:THERE IS A SPIRITUAL.It is the reason why I stopped pretending to be an atheist!

You can laugh this off! But if there comes a time in your life when you come face to face wity any nof this challenges,remember that there wont be time for you joke around looking for the opinion that best suits a forum's poplarity ratings or the moist academically astute presentations.It is a matter of life and death!!Why do you think that there is sudden interest in New age religions?A fad? Your heart creaves for your spiritual identity.What Christ talked about is that I understand this dimension,let me walk you through it.

If you do not remember anything I have written here,remember this:when the time comes for you to confront a spiritual experience-and everyone of us will at some point- you had better be connected to the highest power out there.There is aname that is known by all powers and all beings that we cant see and it is the name of Jesus.

For further reading, go throgh the book of Ephesians.If you find the language of the KJV Bible too old, read any of the contemporary version like the message Bible.I dont mean to sacre you but your life may depend on this!

I think I will go with Syrup and Gbade on their clarification.But I will also add that what we are witnessing has become more semantic than belief.karma's true essence has become lost in the day to day usage of the word and people are fiding it hard to let go of its inability to fit into the christian doctrines. Karms is obviously confused with the principle of seed time and harvest as suggested ny the Scriptures.

I dont know how long this particular discourse will be stretched but we may be coming back to these truths again and again.

And it is going to be a long night!

And I also read somewhere that their group started out from a fellowship but when it became 'structured' in religious sense,he and the other guys moved out. A friend and I were in a fast food joint when the video of his duet with Mary J Blige came up and she said 'did you hear that? in relation to a prt of the lyric.She felt it was a profound thought and I agree with her.

There is a wisdom in not easliy judging people by their dress or outlook!

Like most Nigerians, the only reason why I follow Bolton Wanderers is the presence in the team of JJ.Granted, team can lay off players but the way the JJ thing was handled was not it at all. It started from the way the captainship band was taken from him.He should have sensed something then.It has been confirmed that he was asked to take a wage cut to stay i Bolton and he refused.

I took my search to the team's blog on teamtalk to really know what people are saying-not the nigerian press.I think these guys agree that the England Job distacted Sam a lot.I also think that for team whose only ambition was surviving relegation, the talk of qualifying for Europe has entered their head. and they think they have arrived.Next season will be their reality check!

If JJ were to go after what he has done for them( and Ivan Campo is retained,who does not have the midfield vision of Okocha) they should at least think of a proper testimonial for him.There should be something to tell him that he was respecetd.Some of the comments of their fans is unfortunate.I still believe that JJ can still paly at that level for one or two years with international retirement.

I hope an english club will sign him on for two more seasons, so he can go back to Bolton on an away match to show them what they missed,score some spectacular goals and dribble their legs numb!

Let us see the bolton of next season!

Saw this inteview of Bono and his views about Christianity/religion/Christ and I thought it is something people on this forum can comment on or perhaps learn from.
It is culled from Christianty today: http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/interviews/2005/bono-0805.html



There have been a number of books written about U2 and their iconic frontman, Bono, arguably the world's most famous rock star. But not till now has Bono himself come out to tell his own story. In the new book, Bono: In Conversation with Michka Assayas (Riverhead Books), the rocker shares his thoughts on numerous topics with a French music journalist and friend who has been with the band virtually since the beginning. In a series of honest conversations presented in Q&A format, Bono discusses, among other things, his upbringing (including the death of his mother when he was a teen and the ensuing rocky relationship with his father, who died just a few years ago), U2's beginnings, his bandmates, his marriage, fatherhood, his passion for social action, the effects of celebrity, and, fittingly, his faith and how it intersects all of the above.

The following exchange between Bono and Assayas took place just days after the Madrid train bombings in March 2004, an act of terrorism that left 191 dead and more than 1,800 wounded. The two men were discussing how terrorism is often carried out in the name of religion when Bono turned the conversation to Christianity, expressing his preference for God's grace over "karma," offering an articulate apologetic for the deity of Christ, and giving a clear presentation of the gospel message.

Bono: My understanding of the Scriptures has been made simple by the person of Christ. Christ teaches that God is love. What does that mean? What it means for me: a study of the life of Christ. Love here describes itself as a child born in straw poverty, the most vulnerable situation of all, without honor. I don't let my religious world get too complicated. I just kind of go: Well, I think I know what God is. God is love, and as much as I respond [sighs] in allowing myself to be transformed by that love and acting in that love, that's my religion. Where things get complicated for me, is when I try to live this love. Now that's not so easy.

Assayas: What about the God of the Old Testament? He wasn't so "peace and love"?

Bono: There's nothing hippie about my picture of Christ. The Gospels paint a picture of a very demanding, sometimes divisive love, but love it is. I accept the Old Testament as more of an action movie: blood, car chases, evacuations, a lot of special effects, seas dividing, mass murder, adultery. The children of God are running amok, wayward. Maybe that's why they're so relatable. But the way we would see it, those of us who are trying to figure out our Christian conundrum, is that the God of the Old Testament is like the journey from stern father to friend. When you're a child, you need clear directions and some strict rules. But with Christ, we have access in a one-to-one relationship, for, as in the Old Testament, it was more one of worship and awe, a vertical relationship. The New Testament, on the other hand, we look across at a Jesus who looks familiar, horizontal. The combination is what makes the Cross.

Assayas: Speaking of bloody action movies, we were talking about South and Central America last time. The Jesuit priests arrived there with the gospel in one hand and a rifle in the other.

Bono: I know, I know. Religion can be the enemy of God. It's often what happens when God, like Elvis, has left the building. [laughs] A list of instructions where there was once conviction; dogma where once people just did it; a congregation led by a man where once they were led by the Holy Spirit. Discipline replacing discipleship. Why are you chuckling?

Assayas: I was wondering if you said all of that to the Pope the day you met him.

Bono: Let's not get too hard on the Holy Roman Church here. The Church has its problems, but the older I get, the more comfort I find there. The physical experience of being in a crowd of largely humble people, heads bowed, murmuring prayers, stories told in stained-glass windows …

Assayas: So you won't be critical.

Bono: No, I can be critical, especially on the topic of contraception. But when I meet someone like Sister Benedicta and see her work with AIDS orphans in Addis Ababa, or Sister Ann doing the same in Malawi, or Father Jack Fenukan and his group Concern all over Africa, when I meet priests and nuns tending to the sick and the poor and giving up much easier lives to do so, I surrender a little easier.

Assayas: But you met the man himself. Was it a great experience?

Bono: … [W]e all knew why we were there. The Pontiff was about to make an important statement about the inhumanity and injustice of poor countries spending so much of their national income paying back old loans to rich countries. Serious business. He was fighting hard against his Parkinson's. It was clearly an act of will for him to be there. I was oddly moved … by his humility, and then by the incredible speech he made, even if it was in whispers. During the preamble, he seemed to be staring at me. I wondered. Was it the fact that I was wearing my blue fly-shades? So I took them off in case I was causing some offense. When I was introduced to him, he was still staring at them. He kept looking at them in my hand, so I offered them to him as a gift in return for the rosary he had just given me.

Assayas: Didn't he put them on?

Bono: Not only did he put them on, he smiled the wickedest grin you could ever imagine. He was a comedian. His sense of humor was completely intact. Flashbulbs popped, and I thought: "Wow! The Drop the Debt campaign will have the Pope in my glasses on the front page of every newspaper."

Assayas: I don't remember seeing that photograph anywhere, though.

Bono: Nor did we. It seems his courtiers did not have the same sense of humor. Fair enough. I guess they could see the T-shirts.

Later in the conversation:
Assayas: I think I am beginning to understand religion because I have started acting and thinking like a father. What do you make of that?

Bono: Yes, I think that's normal. It's a mind-blowing concept that the God who created the universe might be looking for company, a real relationship with people, but the thing that keeps me on my knees is the difference between Grace and Karma.

Assayas: I haven't heard you talk about that.

Bono: I really believe we've moved out of the realm of Karma into one of Grace.

Assayas: Well, that doesn't make it clearer for me.

Bono: You see, at the center of all religions is the idea of Karma. You know, what you put out comes back to you: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, or in physics—in physical laws—every action is met by an equal or an opposite one. It's clear to me that Karma is at the very heart of the universe. I'm absolutely sure of it. And yet, along comes this idea called Grace to upend all that "as you reap, so you will sow" stuff. Grace defies reason and logic. Love interrupts, if you like, the consequences of your actions, which in my case is very good news indeed, because I've done a lot of stupid stuff.

Assayas: I'd be interested to hear that.

Bono: That's between me and God. But I'd be in big trouble if Karma was going to finally be my judge. I'd be in deep s---. It doesn't excuse my mistakes, but I'm holding out for Grace. I'm holding out that Jesus took my sins onto the Cross, because I know who I am, and I hope I don't have to depend on my own religiosity.

Assayas: The Son of God who takes away the sins of the world. I wish I could believe in that.

Bono: But I love the idea of the Sacrificial Lamb. I love the idea that God says: Look, you cretins, there are certain results to the way we are, to selfishness, and there's a mortality as part of your very sinful nature, and, let's face it, you're not living a very good life, are you? There are consequences to actions. The point of the death of Christ is that Christ took on the sins of the world, so that what we put out did not come back to us, and that our sinful nature does not reap the obvious death. That's the point. It should keep us humbled… . It's not our own good works that get us through the gates of heaven.

Assayas: That's a great idea, no denying it. Such great hope is wonderful, even though it's close to lunacy, in my view. Christ has his rank among the world's great thinkers. But Son of God, isn't that farfetched?

Bono: No, it's not farfetched to me. Look, the secular response to the Christ story always goes like this: he was a great prophet, obviously a very interesting guy, had a lot to say along the lines of other great prophets, be they Elijah, Muhammad, Buddha, or Confucius. But actually Christ doesn't allow you that. He doesn't let you off that hook. Christ says: No. I'm not saying I'm a teacher, don't call me teacher. I'm not saying I'm a prophet. I'm saying: "I'm the Messiah." I'm saying: "I am God incarnate." And people say: No, no, please, just be a prophet. A prophet, we can take. You're a bit eccentric. We've had John the Baptist eating locusts and wild honey, we can handle that. But don't mention the "M" word! Because, you know, we're gonna have to crucify you. And he goes: No, no. I know you're expecting me to come back with an army, and set you free from these creeps, but actually I am the Messiah. At this point, everyone starts staring at their shoes, and says: Oh, my God, he's gonna keep saying this. So what you're left with is: either Christ was who He said He was—the Messiah—or a complete nutcase. I mean, we're talking nutcase on the level of Charles Manson. This man was like some of the people we've been talking about earlier. This man was strapping himself to a bomb, and had "King of the Jews" on his head, and, as they were putting him up on the Cross, was going: OK, martyrdom, here we go. Bring on the pain! I can take it. I'm not joking here. The idea that the entire course of civilization for over half of the globe could have its fate changed and turned upside-down by a nutcase, for me, that's farfetched …

Bono later says it all comes down to how we regard Jesus:

Bono: … [I]f only we could be a bit more like Him, the world would be transformed. …When I look at the Cross of Christ, what I see up there is all my s--- and everybody else's. So I ask myself a question a lot of people have asked: Who is this man? And was He who He said He was, or was He just a religious nut? And there it is, and that's the question. And no one can talk you into it or out of it.

And I thought In had retired from this thread!

But I cant help myslef,someone with brains in his head and not sawdust paid $45,000 for a visa and he/she will still go out there and look for a job? Just imagine that my partners and I took a 90 days loan for a project that will eat some into our profit and it was just 2million and someone paid ,

My good friend is going to get a loan of about that same amount to start up his cmpany in Abuja and someone paid, AH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Let me pause for a while cos All the languages I thought I dont use are comeing to my mind) Do these people have mentors at all? Do you know what an average business wo(man) will do with that? Are people that deluded? you could start a medium size firm In Nigeria with that and still employ one or two people with time.

exeunt!
Got better things to read!

In addition to what has already been stated, you need to ask yourself a few questions about the logo and the institution or corporation it repressnts.what are they into?what are the values?what do you want the logo to stand for?how will the logo be so distinct from any other that it represents you?waht are the colours adopted by the group?who are your target audience(for service or product)?

Christianity- If we are to follow the pattern established by the Bible and in continuation of its origin as previously stated- in God calling Abraham is not even
Jewish or Hebrew. It is God calling man (Abraham) into a relationship with Him. It is God reconciling himself with man. It is always so interesting when people think the number one proof of their intellectualism is to stand up to Christianity or God or the very concept of God.

If you believe that a stone is your God, why trouble others? But if a man thinks somewhere within the recess of His soul that there is a God, he is in fear. Fear that his works might be judged someday. And in the days that I also pretended that I was an atheist, it was a thought that I battled with. What if truly there is God. I can’t be that Sure. Russell may just be wrong. I shouted and hoped that I was not the only one who believed that God is not who He is said to be; that there are other options and that the Christian God that I have seen changed lives is not as powerful as He is.

And so I immersed myself in these teachings that at best there are many routes to God even though we all came through the birth canal of a woman. Then he showed himself to me and gave me peace in my soul. If I were to sleep and die, I know where I am going. I have an assurance. I know where I am going to-not the many places I can go to. It is personal experience. The one I serve has conquered death that all mankind is subjected to.

And to Nwoke, what makes you -nay most atheists-think that believing in God means that one’s thinking has been taking away? Has there bee any proof Scientific that faith in God implies stupidity? Believers in the house, can you please give these gentle men a list of men alive and asleep who were Christians and men of unusual intelligence?

If I have digressed, remember what I said earlier; Abraham was called away from his background into an experience with his creator. He was not a Jew, Hebrew, British or Nigerians. All those came later.

Christianity is therefore not foreign. You can not be foreign to a God who knew you before you were made!

Thanks Beyonce for your contributions.LIke Zionchic, I thought my that was my last post cos we will go on and on and on, You wrote something that is remarkable and it is at the root of this whole argument:what are our goals in life?If life presents challenge before us,what do we do? How do we define 'the life'? What are the greatest accomplishments we will be remembered for?

Wherever we may be living and whatever opinions we hold,these questions are shaping those responses.There are just people for whom life is much more thn sound infrastructure.Something within them cries for more;there is a sense of an assigment-a destiny.It cant boxed down to a location or even be argued on a forum.

Let every person be fully persuaded!