I'm just laughing at all these haters in this thread. Haba.. the man gave the VIN what other disclosure do you want. Yes vehicle has 75k as against d 175k on vin but was he trying to hide that . Doesnt common sense tell us that he wants you to know that?

The mileage was rolled back like almost all vehicles that come into this country, so what exactly r we arguing about? Doesnt the VIN give you the original mileage and he sends same to any serious buyer not window shoppers. I'm then sure he explains this to the prospects after they must have seen the vin and NOT WINDOW SHOPPERS.

Mehn so many haters that cant see beyond their noses. Im sure this Car go soon sell na em people wan kill themselves.

Continue

MrPresident1:


Dead body

Your case is simple. For any spirit filled beleiver they can smell the apostasy in all your post. You r beneath me my man. My legs will continually be on your throat because you father is the devil.

Mr asteroid . Hope it has fallen in your village and on your head.

Clown

Ihedinobi3:




So, I am being corrected and told off by a self-proclaimed unbeliever who somehow also claims to serve Jesus Christ, a syncretist who mixes Christianity with Eastern religions, and an established liar (all three are proven liars, by the way). But I'm the one who needs to be corrected about what the Bible teaches and warned for presenting myself as a pastor-teacher, although I believe in Jesus Christ as revealed in the Bible, refuse to accept any foreign elements and intrusions into the Bible, and own up to my errors and mistakes in the rare instances that I make them.

Well, the Scriptures are clear that Satan masquerades as an angel of light and his ministers do the same. I don't see more that I can do either to correct you three and others like you or to warn anyone who chances upon our conversations to be wary of you.

So, as I said before, I'm moving on from these discussions. I will not attempt to correct the misrepresentations of my own comments by you three: my posts should be enough to prove to anyone who cares that you are lying about what I have said wherever you are doing so.

You neither were able to use scripture to drive home your points and infact all the scripture you quoted have rather verified mine .

You are stiff necked and a reprobate. Put the bible on display let's discuss not some demonic revelations you got from your hallucinations.

You quoted Micah and it buttresses my points, we all read hebrew 8 and it buttresses my points. Are you so dull of understanding? R u that far gone into sorcery and fooliness? Cant you simply read the bible and understand? Must you complicate the simplicity of the gospels?

Well, I cant help brother, your lot has been predestined already. False prophets whose God is their belly. You r reserved like the fallen Angel's for eternal condemnation if you dont repent and make scripture your lifeline not your private interpretations but what scripture actually insinuates.

Your blood, your life

MrPresident1:
[s][/s]

Thrash

Coming from an atheist .

Go figure

OkCornel:


Is this the scriptural evidence pointing to where Jesus appointed Paul to replace Judas?

Is this the scriptural evidence pointing to where the Holy Spirit rejected Matthias’ apostleship?


I get it, you have no answer to the queries being raised here, and would rather rely on your conjectures and interpretation of the scriptures.

I take this as your exit strategy in the absence of scriptural evidence to support your claims.


You’re a joke. The bolded in your quote reeks of “humility”. It’s very essential in your walk with God. Ride on Ihedinobi3, the all knowing one.

My brother forget that guy. He has the spirit of an anti Christ. A rebellious son. Like lucifer who exalted himself, this one likes to exalt himself against the word of God. I have used scrpiture to test him and he falled so I wont bother responding to him. His lost and his heart is hardened with lies. NO SCRIPTURE TO PROVE ANYTHING. he mystifies what has already been demystified by Yeshua.

I will try not to respond to him, just that I hate evil counsel .

Carry on brother. We r doing the work of Yeshua against evil apostate false pastor/teachers

JMAN05:


Don't be too fast to discredit the Bible, just because you can't find evidence in Google.

Scholarly research is a work in progress. In the future it may be realised how the book of Daniel used Darius. Critics have sometimes failed when new evidence comes up to vindicate the Bible records.

No true scholar would relegate the Bible to a made-up story. We must admit our limitations in getting all the evidence we need now from secular authorities since the Bible is from a Higher source. It's authenticity will in the future be discerned by the critics.

Don't be too fast, lest you make serious mistakes.

My brother, if you read my post properly you will see that I dont care what archaeology has found as the bible is my all in all. I'm only pointing us to the facts as the world has it that Darius is not recognized to have existed by science and that majority scholars beleive that Daniel even never existed. Well if that true then Yeshua lied because He quoted Daniel. let God be true and all men lies like this their ihedinobi because truly his moniker speaks volumes as evil and deceit are in his mind. He loves to over explain scripture and mystify what had already been demystified .

Please dont fall for his fooliness and folly because according to Him the OT testament beleiver n NT are pretty much the same forgetting that the OT was a carnal testament as scripture tells us but we r redeemed now by the blood of Christ not blood of awe, or sheep .

That tho we are all taught of God we see in part and understand In part. And as Paul said, we all see through a glass dimly but when we have been elevated with the celestial body we shall know fully. Truth is tho, we r taught directly by the Holy Spirit, as long as we r in this terrestrial body, they is a limit to the understanding of the operations of God as man is earthly and carnal. Even Paul with all the revelations knew that he was still limited until he puts off this mortal body to understand fully because then we would see God and Yeshua and all the witnesses FACE TO FACE and God will be the light not the sun.

2 cor 3 vs 18, we are beholding the glory of God from a mirror and transformed from glory to glory until redemption of our carnal bodies. So we can never know all about Yeshua now because we on see through a mirror not FACE TO FACE. but then, in the resurrection, we will behold the glory FACE TO FACE

Ihedinobi3:

I did say that you would never admit to any errors. I also told you that my response to your post was not for your benefit.

There is much to be said about Hebrews 8, but I will say just a few things:

1. You lied about what I said. I did not say that the New Covenant is only for the Millennium. I said that the direct teaching of the Lord will only happen during the Millennium as a fruit of the New Covenant.

2. The New Covenant is the basis for the Millennium. Without the Cross, the Kingdom will never be established. Because the Lord Jesus has come and died on the Cross, He has been crowned King of the Earth. But His Kingdom will only be inaugurated in the Millennium. When it is, God's Promises to Israel, including their regathering from the nations, the enlarging of the territory to reach the full extent that God promised Abraham but which Israel has never occupied, and the raising of the Israelite nation to rulership over the nations of the world, will be fulfilled. It is at that same time that the Lord will be teaching the inhabitants of the Earth, especially Israel, the Truth directly. That is what Hebrews 8 teaches.

3. If your interpretation of Hebrews 8 is correct, how does it not violate Isaiah 2:3; Micah 4:2; Ephesians 4 and the passages in John that I pointed out?

4. If we do not need teachers, why do we have them, since you claim that we do have people who have the gift of teaching?

Now, regarding Old and New Covenants, the only difference between the two really is that one looked forward to the other. The Old Covenant believer was a believer who had confidence that the Lord would send a Savior to die for his sins. The New Covenant believer is a believer who has confidence that the Savior has come and died for his sins. That's it. This difference is quite profound because the Advent of the Christ and His Victorious Return to Heaven resulted in the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, so that gifts that had never existed among human beings were given to believers for the first time. This is a big deal, yes, but not in the sense that the New Testament believer is completely different from the Old Covenant believer.

The Old Covenant believer relied on prophets and eventually priests to teach him the Truth. The New Covenant believer relies on the work of the Apostles and prophets to have access to the Truth and on pastor-teachers to teach him the Truth that the Apostles and prophets have written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. There are more gifts in the Church today than before and the Holy Spirit is indwelling believers permanently for the first time, but the New Testament believer is still part of the Church and is called by the Lord to rely on other believers in different ways to grow to spiritual maturity.

The thing that you might not be appreciating is that, as Hebrews 8 and Jeremiah 31 both teach, the New Covenant in the Blood of Jesus produces something more than just an enlarged Church comprising Gentiles disproportionately, it also produces the Millennium which is the time that both passages call "after those days." The Millennium follows the Church Age. That is the time of the Kingdom. After the days of the Church, the Millennium will come when the Lord will take things to a new level. At that time, every human being still living on earth will be taught the Truth by Him personally. This is a different dispensation than the Church Age. It is not now. Today is the Church Age when we learn the Truth with the help of one another. That is why we are told that the Bride readies or prepares herself (Revelation 19:7, compare Ephesians 4:11-13). That is, we all work together to build each other up to full spiritual maturity in preparation for the return of our Bridegroom.

Millennial believers are not part of the Church. They are the complement of the Church, that is, an addition to the Church that is the Lord's Bride, so their dispensation is different. They receive the Truth directly from the Lord, but we receive the Truth today through the agency of pastor-teachers who interpret the revelations given to the Apostles and prophets to write down in the Bible.

As for the KJV, I still don't see what you mean. Are you saying that it is only this "authentic translation" that is inspired? Or are you saying that you made a mistake and there is no inspired KJV translation regardless who you believe published it?

I don't see your answers to the accusations I made against you. You did challenge me to produce evidence of the lies that I charge you with, and I provided a sampling of them. What you have done now is to claim that you are innocent, without providing any proof at all of this innocence.

Nonetheless, I don't quite care. I never expected you either to own up to your errors or to provide proof that you did not lie. I only provided the evidence so that it is clear that you and I are not at all alike and that I am not the liar here. As I said, I own up to my own errors and accept correction where necessary, but then you're not like me.

At this point, I am done with our conversation. You may have an answer, but I think that I will leave things at this point. There is little value that I see in continuing this discussion with you.

I'm happy everyone with the Spirit of God can discern the evil spirit that operates in your life. The same spirit that allows you to distort scrpiture. Everything you quoted about the millennia is a lie and you have no scripture in the NT to back it up. Your lot love to dwell in the OT forgetting that OT was written to a people and was a book of prophesies which have already passed and the remaining prophesies are the destruction of the earth and the establishing of the new Jerusalem e.t.c. ALL those words in theOT were addressed to a people not you or me and the ones that were prophesies for our time like the coming messiah and everlasting judgement were clear. Now you r quoting Micah, oya let's look at it together.

Micah 4:1-4 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken ....

Dont you see Micah helps to explain my points? Its says in the last days the mountain of the Lord will be establish in the Top of the Mountains. what is the mountain of the Lord? This signifies authority, its saying The Lords mountain will be exalted just like we have it in Yeshua who is exalted and sitting above all principalities and power and above all other mountains as Eph 1 tells us., verse 2, and people shall flow into it and MANY NATIONS WILL COME. it means the gentiles will be allowed access to these mountain ......verse 4 and many will say come let us go and seek the Lord for HE will teach us of His ways, verse 5 FOR OUT OF ZION SHALL PROCEED THE LAW, Where or what is Zion? Why is the law from Zion direct and not from pastor teachers? Why is it God that will teach His ways and not your pastor teachers. These was Micah like other OT prophets who God allowed to see the times of the reformation where 5he gentiles will be included and God Himself will Pour out His Spirits. The Isaiah you also quoted is the exact same with Micah. Do you know these prophets wondered what kind of men will beleive in Yahweh during this time?

1 Peter 1:10-11 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The old prophets saw the salvation that Yeshua will bring because they also had the same Spirit.

We know that everywhere in scrpiture when it talks of the last days its talking about the days after the messiah has been sacrificed as an offering and resurrected. We are In the last days.

Let me tell you all the prophesies in a nutshell. A nation Israel will be born, they will rebel and God will send them destructions (which were d details of literally all the prophets from Jeremiah till Malachi? Which led to the temples destruction and the rebuilding was prophesied that Cyrus will help consumamate. Then that The temple will be destroyed again because of sin and that the messiah will come, and that he will ride a colt and be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver and killed and resurrect, then the world will be destroyed when the Messiah returns with His saints to establish the new heaven and earth after judging sinners, satan and his Angel's and the fallen angels.

My friend all the prophesies have been fulfilled till the coming of the messiah. What we r waiting for now is the destruction of the earth as that is the last days were the wicked will become more wicked.


You have complicated the simplicity of the gospel with your heresies. And you r rong, Yeshua is not King on earth as there is a god of this world already and they cant be two Kings in a Kingdom. Yeshua is in heaven and until the earth is first destroyed and sinners removed. Can you honestly say this earth is for Yeshua? Men rule this earth in collaboration with principalities.

All the apostles preached that the earth will be destroyed and judgement will come. Yeshua prophesied the last days to be rough in mt25 and not pleasant. Earthquakes, killings etc and then the end will come.

I'm not addressing this to you because you portion is hell already. It's for posterity and the one folk who will find this words. PLEASE READ YOUR BIBLE YOURSELF WITH THE HELP OF THE LORD. THESE R D LAST DAYS AND THE DEVIL IS LOOKING FOR WHO TO DEVOUR. ITS ALL ABOUT HEAVEN AND HELL NOT RICHES. THESE WORLD IS PASSING AWAY AS WE R IN THE LAST DAYS. READ THE NT AND YOU WILL REALISE THAT MANY FALSE PROPHETS ARE GONE OUT ALREADY SELLING PEACE PEACE WHEN TRULY THERE IS WAR WAR.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED WE ARE IN THE DEVILS KINGDOM. THE EARTH AS WE HAVE IT HAS BEEN GIVEN TO HIM. HE IS THE PRINCE/god of this world. YOU CANNOT TAKE ANY MOUNTAIN AS FAKE PASTOR SAID. ALL THE MOUNTAINS OF THE EARTH ARE CARNAL . The kingdom of God and His son is not a carnal kindgom and not of this world. The earth will be destroyed and the messiah shall appear. It will be like the days of Noah. Pls read your bible and see this things for yourself so you can prove what is that good, acceptable and perfect will of God.

A word is enough for the wise

OkCornel:


Just to add to the bolded bit of your quote;

1 John 2 v 26-27;
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

My brother in Christ, did you notice it said the anointing which you have received of Him(Yeshua) abideth in you, and you need not that any pastor/teacher criminal teach you . So its Yeshua that anoints us to understand scriptures not pastor/teachers from ihedioha's village .

We have not fully understood the NT for all these clowns teach old testament but not the new. The book of Hebrews tells us the transition from OT to NT. Ohhh, if only beleivers will apply themselves to the word and understand the mysteries that have already been demystified and need not that pastor/teachers teach us. Its clear from scriptures. Even the apostles did not lord themselves over the flock.

ALL THE TEACHING HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE AND WE NEED JUST TO BRING TO OUR REMEMBRANCE. NO MEED FOR SCAMMER TEACHERS WHICH HAVE BEEN THE MAIN PROBLEM OF THE CHURCH FOR THEY HAVE TAUGHT THEIR DOCTR INE AND THE BELEIVERS HAVE NOT DISCERN BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN THE VOICE OF GOD BUT MAMMON WHICH IS THE GOD OF BOTH MUTTEY AND IHEDIOHA THE SCAMMER

OkCornel:


God bless you richly bro, the bolded is something I keep telling bible thumping liars who are ready to go to any length to claim the Bible is totally devoid of errors.

If you point out these to them, they suddenly go into zealotry mode, spewing emotional garbage with lies.

The next joke is on those who think an Eternal God can have all His words limited to only 66 books.

Ask them if revelations/prophecies given to those with the gift of prophecy from the Holy Spirit in our time are also the words of God.

They suddenly go deaf and mute.

My brother Ave been having fun all day. For indeed the Holy Spirit is great and a true witness of scriptures. These zealot are all judges of the law and not doers. They are they that think spiritual things can be understood with the carnal mind forgetting that the natural man cannot receive the thing of the Lord for there r foolishness unto him...

Atleast one clown learnt something today that he can take to his pastor/teacher for discussion .

They still have nothing on the blessed BOE and Jasher. Just noise makers that cant even understand fully the scriptures with 66 books talkless of other words of the Most High. Clouds they r without ran . Chest beaters and boosters in their strength in understand when really they lack wisdom and operate in the flesh.

I just dey here dey laugh

Ihedinobi3:

I am not the Holy Spirit. I don't convict people of anything. But I have definitely pointed out a sampling of your errors and lies that you have consistently refused to own up to. Do you really think that because you've refused to admit all your lies here that you have not been caught in a lie several times here?

When I asked you how the KJV is inspired, did you admit that you were wrong that the KJV is "the true word of God," a false claim that you were hoping to use to seal your other lie that Acts 9 and Acts 22 contradict each other?

What about your lie that Hebrews 8 teaches that we are not supposed to have teachers, in spite of your other madness that there are teachers, but they just exist to entertain us? Have you offered any kind of acknowledgment for Isaiah 2:3 and Micah 4:2 that I gave you to correct your error?

What about your claim that the book of Jasher teaches that the nation Israel existed before God created nations in Genesis 11? Have you accepted correction and confessed your error there?

What about your claim that I never sought God for myself in spite of what I said to you about me, a story that has been told in varying detail multiple times on this platform, but which you pretended was a lie even though you don't know me at all?

What about your lies about the early believers: namely, your claim that they did not have the Bible, but they had all these books you love so much? Have you owned up to your error there?

I only have to go through your posts once to pull up a staggering amount of lies that you have told here with absolutely no indication that you knew you were wrong when I or anyone else showed you your error.

As for Berechiah, you did not know anything about the error there. You just assumed that it had to be wrong for no reason. I had to go and do the research and post it here that "son of Berechiah" was not even in the original writing of Matthew. You know nothing at all. You are wildly ignorant, but you keep making things up unrepentantly, yet you think you have won some kind of victory because I owned up to a mistake that I made. How is that your victory? You have learned absolutely nothing from this engagement with me. You have only gotten worse in your rebellion. I, on the other hand, have been exercising myself in remembering what the Bible teaches about all the challenges and lies that you've been throwing at me and getting greater insight into the Scriptures from answering you. And you think that that is something that you did? If I do not flip the pages of the Bible to answer you, or turn to https://ichthys.com whenever I need help with the original manuscripts, I would not find out or confirm what is true in some of the responses that I have given you. How is that any kind of gain for you? You have been doing the enemy's work here, and you think that you have something to celebrate as a result? You are truly pathetic.

And you talk of "when books are translated errors can occur?" You? Are you not the one who attacked my submission that pastor-teachers ought to learn Ancient Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Ancient History and Church History, and textual criticism to access the original text of the Scriptures? And now, you say that? You are shameless.

As for your book of Enoch, you can wait a little longer. I have said multiple times that it is not Scripture because it is not inspired by God. But if you insist that it is, by all means keep using it as such. The loss is all yours. It's not my business at all.

Edited.

Your r silly brother very silly. When did I make all this your claims . R u sure u ain't hallucinating? That hebrews 8 said said we shuldt have teachers? I said hebrews 8 speaks of the earthy ordinances which have been done away with. That we dont need priest who mediate for us or pastor/teachers who stand in the gap to bring the word like your little cult you attend. That KJV was d inspired word? I thot I told you I meant translation. I for one dont read any other than KJV but I raised the issue of zecharias because both KJV and NASB noted the error.

I didnt know anything of berechais yet I'm d one that raised it? No wonder you r indeed a son of your father the devil. How can I assume such when even after your erroneous claim that Berechais was another name for jehoiada like as if you were d priest in the naming ceremony . Clown.

You are an apostate my man. Any spirit filled beleiver can sense the demon at work in your life. Read the whole books of Hebrew and understand our role in this new dispensation. You have alot to learn. A true beleiver doesnt need a useless pastor/teacher like urs cause I see you ain't any wiser anyways. I never said the early beleivers never had the bible but that they didn't have d bible as we have it. As in all in one book but they had it in different books or Did you canonize it for dem. Fool that keeps lieing upandan.

I challenge you to draw up my previous post so we see all your rubbish lies you just stated here about me. If not hold you peace.

Baby Christian that cannot interpret scripture because you lack the Holy spirit but need Zeus, your pastor/teacher to speak on your behalf.

Learner. Everyone reading here knows all the truth. And the lies you have been peddling against me without proofs but ofcourse. You have been doing that all day.

Empty barrel. All talk no scripture reference . Deceiver of the brethren posting rubbish links of your village high priest expecting the gullible to fall prey. But we r here as the servant of the Most High to resist your foolishness and perversion.

Ihedinobi3:

When I make a mistake, I own it. I'm not like you or your friends who thrive on lies. If I am in error, I don't plan to stay in it, I get out as fast as I can. That is not true of you, so you really have nothing to your claims about your righteousness, about me, or about the Bible.

Translations of the Bible are not inspired, just as I pointed out with my incredulity at your claim that the KJV is "the true word of God." That is why pastor-teachers learn the original languages and textual criticism in order to figure out what the original text actually says. Otherwise, we can be wrong when we follow the translations of others.

The text does not say "Jehoiada" either, but we know that that was the father of the Zechariah in question.

I was not offering you any secular history. The Bible itself is a historical authority, and I am telling you authoritatively that Darius was a king before Cyrus. It does not matter to me what you want to believe there. I don't trust archaeology and secular history anywhere near as much as I trust the Bible. But you are free to follow the scholars that you can't stop talking about. I'm not sure what good it has done for you so far.

I'm sure I would be very happy to thank you for any good that you've done me, but you've been no good to me except for exercise. You have heaped lies upon lies upon lies even in the face of mounting evidence against you. Not once have you acknowledged your error and "thanked me" for correcting you. You have threatened the spiritual safety of believers that have opened this thread since you started posting on it, and you think that I owe you thanks?

I have no interest in your opinions about me.

Clown. So full of pride. I'm a son of my Father and as yet you have not convicted me of any error but I have of you. You have no scriptural evidence for the rubbish you spew but I show you evidence from the very word your fake pastor/teacher couldn't teach you. When you have the Holy Spirit He leads you into All truth that's y I knew about the error of berechais without having to know all greek like your pastor/teacher that couldnt teach you before you came here to spew trash.

So now you know, you can let your congregation know that when books are translated errors might occur.

Maybe it will take you 25yrs to understand your error in criticizing a book that you cant raise any issue with . A book that is amongst the oldest in it's right and has been translated probably more than a thousand times. But like I said my friend which is something that is too high for your carnal mind. The letter killeth, the spirit giveth life.

Dont thank me again joor. I delight and derive joy in eradicating spiritual foolishness and deception.that alone is my joy.

Still waiting for you to depute Enoch if not just shut up bro. Let's test it here. Enough of this fooliness

Ihedinobi3:

I didn't realize that we are quoting scholars now. I was merely telling you what the Bible says, but of course, just like your brother-in-arms's efforts to prove that I'm a liar just like you lot, you are fighting to prove that the Bible is a liar just like your pseudo Scriptures too.

To be clear, the Lord Jesus was talking about the Zechariah that King Joash of Judah had murdered, not the Zechariah that lived so long after and wrote the book we now have of that name. The Scriptures are clear how Jehoiada's son died. The Lord Jesus referred to it for a reason too (namely, the wickedness of the Jews of His Time that was just like the wickedness of Joash too). There is no doubt what He was meaning to do. As for the "son of Berechiah" part, I've just checked and found that it is not in Codex Sinaiticus, the earliest manuscript we have of the New Testament. The phrase was written in the margin by a later hand (source: https://ichthys.com/mail-bible-interpretation6.htm, see also picture evidence below and http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=33&chapter=23&lid=en&side=r&verse=35&zoomSlider=0), so it's not actually a part of the Bible.

The answer I gave was wrong, but then it was not improbable, because there are many instances where people in the Bible were know by multiple names, just as I demonstrated. But, as I said, Truth is wasted on you, so I don't expect this to do anything except strengthen you in your error and rebellion against the Truth.

As for the Babylon, you should probably read Daniel again and then study up on the history. The Medes and Persians were two separate peoples that formed a kind of alliance that resulted in the "dual kingdom" that you spoke of. Cyrus was not their first king (source: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Cyrus-the-Great). Darius was before him, just as Daniel recorded.

I don't really mind what you have in your journal. That's your business. From where I stand, you just have excuses for putting the Bible on a par with uninspired works that you like to pretend are inspired.

Thank God you realise your error . We r getting somewhere l. Hopefully by the time we r done you would learn more history. So the point is this, zechariah Yeshua spoke about is the one King Joash murdered in 2 chron 20 but the son of Berechais was an error like I rightly said. That son of berechias is the son of berechias that wrote the book of zechariah so the wrong Father of the Zechariah in question was used. Instead of Jehoida, it erroneously said berechais. That my friend is not an error of God but man . Deal with it bro.

I tell you brother, there is not a single evidence of Darius as a King of Medes and Persia. Please any one can Google this so I stop arguing with this clown. Please google the book of Daniel and you will see that majority scholars beleive its made up stories from maccabees era. Ofcourse I dont beleive this becos the fact man hasn't found him out yet doesnt mean he doesnt exist.

Atleast you learnt sometime today about the sons of berechais and instead of you to humble urself and thank me you still gloat in foolishness.

My point is man makes mistakes but God does not. Because as the words are translated and handed down from generation to generation, error are bound to occur. It's normal. Feast on the Spirit behind the words and not the letters. The letters are constantly killing you my man and you r sounding unintelligent while it's at it

I'm sure If I check my journals I will find other examples like this. My man I have no time for this discuss as you r devoid of the truth and the Spirit. Your carnality has clouded you sense of reasoning into the things of the Spirit.

Whatever makes you sleep at night brother.

Ihedinobi3:

You might as well argue that all the people whose names are different in 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Chronicles, for example, Araunah who is also called Ornan, are not who the Bible says that they are, or that the Lord Jesus is not the Christ, since His Name was not Emmanuel. People were identified by multiple names in the Bible, so sometimes we are speaking of the same person even when we are actually using different names. Zechariah's father is not the only one whose name the Lord Jesus used differently. When He taught the Pharisees the lesson of the Sabbath in Mark 2, He identified the high priest as Abiathar, but we see Ahimelech as the priest in 1 Samuel 21. You could also argue that that it is a contradiction, when you consider that Abiathar was the son of Ahimelech in 1 Samuel 22:20, but that would be ignoring the fact that there was another Abiathar who was the high priest at the time, possibly the grandfather of the one named in that verse.

In the case of the Barakiah, that is another name of Jehoiada, just like Benoni was another name for Benjamin and Jedidiah was another name for Solomon.

I'm not sure what archaeology has to do with anything. The Bible is a historical authority. Archaeology is a discipline that seeks to use incomplete information to postulate about the past. I would take the Bible's testimony over archaeological findings any day of the week. Nevertheless, your claim is false. Cyrus founded the Persian empire, but Darius in Daniel was a Mede. The Bible does not say that he was the first king of the Medes, it only says that he was the Mede who conquered Babylon.

As I said, you have no respect for the Bible, and you love lies.

To show how dubious and unlearned you are. Zecharias the son of Barachais actually existed and wrote the book of zechariah same as zecharias according to some scholars. Zecharias of Barachais is well know and that's not how he died. Stop being silly and learn. You know nothing about anything spiritual. Zecharias the son of Barachais and zechariah son of berechiah. Are same. No scholar says Jehioda and barachais are the same . That's just your made up lie to further distort history.

And to show your total disregard for history, belshazzar was the last king of babylon, the next Kingdom was Mede and Persia which is the same as either Mede or Persia. It was kind of a dual kingdom for which Cyrus is credited as being the first King. There is no archaelogical explanation for Darius because historically after belshazzar is Cyrus and no gap found. Yes I agree that the bible is the final authority and man is limited. This just shows that records can be lost and misrepresented as man is the one writing the letters not God but God is the inspiration and Spirit behind the letters. These are after all historical records and one detail can be mixed up. It doesnt mean the bible lied is just that the records handed down could be misinterpreted or a detail lost to time. The important thing is the Spirit behind the word.

Ihedinobi3:

The KJV is inspired too? How is it inspired?

If it is "the only word of God," as you claim, why then are you claiming that your books of Jasher and Enoch are also the word of God? Does your KJV contain them too?

That is just one of a staggering number of contradictions in the things you say, yet you claim that you are not confused.

I meant translations wise but let's leave that as some prefer NASB I love KJV so let me use another example that both KJV and NASB acknowledge.

In Mattew 23 vs 35 Matthew 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Are you aware that the Zecharias son of Barachais spoken of here is not the same referred to that died between the altar . It was infact a mix up as bible scholars acknowledge it was actually Zecharias son of Jehoida as seen in 2 chron 24 vs 20. And some say son of Baruch but definately not son of Barachais.

Hope you know archaelogically the book of Daniel cannot be proven. The bible says Darius was the first King of Medes but archaeology says it was Cyrus. But Yeshua quoted from Daniel. So who is lying. Let God be true and all men liers.

Grow up spiritually my man. Leave the letters and chase the spirit. You r not smarter than God.

[quote author=Ihedinobi3 post=84013533]
This response is not quite for you, so don't feel like you should respond. I only want to answer some things in your post that want answering for the sake of those who believe the Bible.

Non-contradiction of Scriptures does not make anything Scripture. A teaching or explanation of Scripture ought not to contradict Scripture, but that does not make it Scripture itself. Scripture is only that which is inspired or breathed by God.

Although it is a common tactic to try to drag the Bible down to the level of all manner of insane pseudo Scripture to try to legitimize those pseudo Scripture, the Bible is non-contradictory, so Acts 9 and Acts 22 are not contradictory accounts of Paul's conversion, in spite of how much you wish that to be the case to prove that the Bible is no different than your false Scripture. This is the same thing that OkCornel tried to do with the biblical accounts of Araunah's threshing-floor in 2 Samuel and 1 Chronicles. He failed too. These are the two passages that you invoke here:

[7]The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.
Acts 9:7 NASB

[9]And those who were with me saw the light, to be sure, but did not understand the voice of the One who was speaking to me.
Acts 22:9 NASB

Nowhere in the above are we told that Paul's companions did not hear the voice. What we are actually told is that they did hear it but they did not understand it. The KJV does say "heard not," but that is not a good translation in that case. The NIV1984 and NASB (shared above) both agree that the word is "understand," not "heard." It is obvious from Acts 9 that hearing a voice and seeing no speaker on an open road with a brilliant light shining down would terrify and confuse the men, so that they wouldn't understand the voice at all.

Regarding Hebrews 8, I have not seen your refutations of my explanation that it refers more fully to the Millennium than to the Church Age, just as Isaiah 2:3 and Micah 4:2 clearly teach. I just see your continued claims without any proof at all. As it is, your behavior is very consistent with disrespect for the Bible because you continually ignore what it says in order to believe what you want to

[quote author=Ihedinobi3 post=84014227]
The KJV is inspired too? How is it inspired?

If it is "the only word of God," as you claim, why

Or the guy will go and defraud people and get money and pay tithe to the tax collector who has promised him the day of surplus but God is really saying to the man, YOU fool, abi you think say na only rich man God dey call fool

False prophets every where, prophesying by Mammon. People are moved by wealth , authority, cares of these present decaying dieing world.

So now if I get a shell job now now God has blessed me. I can share my testimony and the carnal minded will say my God is great because he too is greedy and wants to ha e that job for his evil desires but a man of gold would have told him that he needs to pay God to get blessed so he either says Hod bless me so I can give another carnal mammon false preacher/teacher who will then tell you that its your year of peace but he moves with security and and that God will bless you and you carry on in carnality until the person meets his death by way of arm robbers same armed robbers that cannot get close to your papa because of his security details. What will you tell God, that you lived on earth and chased vanity? Did you even know him? Do you think the abinimation of desolation as we have it is Yeshua?

Abomination to the Lord, desolate the people of God. There is nothing new under the sun. Study to show yourself approved, so you can RIGHTLY divide the word of truth and discern the times and seasons. Ramblings of a mad man some will say, like in the days Noah, it came suddenly . Peter's first sermon he said amongst other things, SAVE YOURSELF FROM THE INCOMING DOOM . He didnt say God will make you the governor of Judea

OkCornel:


Ihedinobi3, you are obviously deluded. You are here telling us the 11 Apostles who were Spirit filled made a mistake appointing Matthias to be one of them...even after seeking God's counsel?

Acts 1 v 20-26;
20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.


Ihedinobi3, you are that same person preaching a strange doctrine that the Holy Spirit withheld some of his gifts (e.g. prophecy, tongues e.t.c.) from the church.

1) On what authority do you stand to call another a lover of lies?
2) On what authority do you stand to tell us the Spirit filled Apostles made a mistake selecting Matthias as one of them?
3) Where in the scriptures did Paul boast or mention he was appointed by Jesus to replace Judas? Oh, I forgot, your common sense is now the basis to interpret the scriptures.


You are a joke.

These guys are wolves in sheep clothing my brother. They are apostates who do not know God nor the spirit behind the WORD. I dont even respond to muttey again because I caught him after he said Peter and Jude didnt kjow what they were saying . But aihedioha is smarter he only said Peter and Jude said it yes but that the present book of Enoch is false but cannot prove it.

For they think they are God, they are always investigating the WORD of God. There was on that said one time that Paul was not a brethren then later said Allah and Yehweh are same because they always seek new wisdom, strange fire, they feign godly but really are evil men who stand against the word of God. But I know your type. CONTINUE i only pity lazy people who wont study but be seeking for pastor/teacher to show you the word of God in greek, Spanish, german meanwhile he quoted demonic translation of NASB. I just dey look the guy. KJV is your only true word of God ooo.

Word is enough for the wise and a sentence for a fool. If you dont beleive me sit down with the WORD and I'm saying for started the NT not OT. You see you must know the new will before you know the Old will. The Old will serves as historical scriptural records not for actual consummation by present day beleivers because all those promises Gid gave to Israel has already been fulfilled. You are no more fighting the Amoritez and sodomites, and Perisites as Olukoya will have you beleive . For the weapons of our warfare are not CARNAL.....for though we walk in the flesh we do NOT war after the flesh.

People dont know scriptures but carry the letter on their heads. See the guy now said Mark 16 is wrong abi what did he even say again? Godman . God's assistance. If you dont beleive one why beleive all? And if you dont beleive all why beleive one? Hyporcrite really your father is the devil.

Jesus Christ didnt come to make you rich. Did you notice how each time he rubbished money, he never wanted his apostles to trust in wealth, hence the feeding of the 5000, 4000, then remember the gold coin in the fish? Do you really think Peter didnt have that coin in his pocket? If you read Luke's account it says that after the taxcollectors told Peter outside, he was coming into the house when Yeshua saw he and asked him. Peter was not going to tell Yeshua but get the money then after Yeshua heard and gave the famous give until Ceasars what's Ceasars he then told him to go and fish for gold but Peter had it in the house .

Yeshua rubbished it so now we have people who only think until Hid give them Shell job, your God is not big whereas all you need is know a prominent person and you get the job. Is that one God? Even Yahoo Yahoo sef get pastor wey dey pray for them . Abomination of desolation . Where another god sits on the throne of Yahweh but it's only with humans oooi. Because the sun has a covenant with God. The trees glorify God after all its says God is able to raise children of Abraham from the stones. Children of Abraham were loyal and obedient to serve to God and also looked to eternal life as scripture tell us in Hebrews How they sought to another Kingdom .

That y some are killing themselves over scrpiture. People dont know how spiritual d earth is the trees speak and the sun sees . The sun reports back to God, these r d things Enoch that Muttey is killing himself over. You cant comprehend how a man speaks to the sun or sees the stars and frost. All these are creations of Yahweh and they are spirits in themselves. The trees glorify God. The mountains bow down . Man stands up to God but the birds sing to Yahweh and the snow testifies to the holiness of His throne. That y you can never under the SPIRITS behind the book. The LETTER killeth but the SPIRIT giveth life. You box God up in one small book that corrupt 'church leaders' set up but YAHWEH still preserves HIS WORD so He gave us the bible that is TRUEST and by which the foundation of the Lord stand the sure having this deal the Lord.........

Spirit of prophecy, Spirit of apostleship, and all the spirits of God which every beleiver can tap into as we are all Israel's and you need not that any teach you. Because Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ Yeshua'

Blessed us with ALL not some ALL as the gospel is written not to a corporate entity but to individuals who themselves will either be in heaven or hell . Dont chase after man ooo you will get lost. In this dispensation pick your bible and seek him first. STUDY the scrpiture on your own first . Dont seek man because man will deceive you, if God wills he sends a good person. How can you know the voice of Yahweh without studying Him first. Now every body judges us because I read the book of Enoch, same book that two independent apostles lifted and beleived in fully , same book that bible says Enoch was a great man, now there r different books of Enoch as someone rightly said same with Jasher which even shows why the intent is to block people from even getting the book as the devil has always been fighting the word of God from Eden. He always wants to pervert the word via man and bring his own beleive but God always preserves His word. Just like now people dont even know the purpose of creation. Some now think its be be like Dangote . A Muslim who is enjoying his hard earned money but after death is on His way to hell. Like sheep fed for the slaughter. . Wealth that you will acquire and just die like that. What will now happen to all your worldly goods. Everything here is the spirit of the gospel. No be me talk am ooo. Na the bible wey me and you dey read and funny Enoch spoke extensively on this. @@okcornel can testified. Woe unto the rich who beleive life begins and ends on earth. To them that say Yahweh has blessed me with my house, wetin you get . To them that think godliness is gain and go after Adeboye them and Oyedepo them . Covenant day of fruitfullness covenant day of miracle job . Wey done sir!! Is that the gospel Yahweh sent you be preach. To the foolish who will be deceive and led astray as the abomination of desolation is set in place like Yeshua said. When you see the abomination of desolation know that the end is near. This happened when Peter them saw the great stones and they marvelled at them and Yeshua said you see these stones will be laid waste signifying the Roman 2nd destruction of the 2nd temple. Which was the sign also Yeshua gave them that the end of days will begin. Wars and rumours of ears, earthquakes, iniquity shall abound , the LOVE of many will wax cold. Now what is LOVE of God. Is it what you pastor/teacher taught you. That you must tithe to HIM and HIS organisation? A fellow brethren like yourself has lorded himself over you and make merchandise of you? FEAR OF MAN

Let none deceive himself. We are in the last days and the world will become more evil. Wicknedness will multiply and only does who know their God will not be wasted by the wicked one. The earth as we have it is given to the god of this world, christains cannot take over the mountains as it already given to him. You cannot compete with the world because it will all be destroyed. Like in the days of Noah, people were building and enjoying life. You cannot measure God by your bank account. That's being carnal minded. The devil gives wealth easily and right now his in partnership with the conventional 'church' to have you beleive that God is a carnal God. Using old testament scripture to deceive people forgetting that the old testament was a carnal testament as told us by Paul and Hebrews because the inheritance was a dual inheritance of both physical and spiritual as Israel had to physically expand and kill its enemies. The tabernacle and the ark of Yahweh was on earth. But in the NT, our inheritance is purely spiritual. Riches are not bad but when you love this world and the things of the world you r lost hence scripture said that it's hard for a rich man to enter but with God its possible.

Now everybody is after wealth, hence our role models are worldly people. We have aspirations and desires that dont line up with scrpiture . Yeshua is saying by scripture in that you should not seek these things like your lives depend on it like man is only made to build house in lekki and buy Benz.

The world does not know the coming danger. If you know Gid like the man that has a teacher, you should be weeping for the world sir. The preachers are prophesying peace, breakthrough, year of promotion but really in God's eyes its year of destructions , years of deaths , year of plane crashes . The world will be destroyed by fire and all will see the messiah . This is what any 'woke' lover of God should know. You dont need any teacher to teach you this. It's the spirit behind the bible. It's been about man's relationship with God o. Earth here, then transition to heaven. Hence Enoch and Elijah were able to achieve this physically

Like in the days of Noah. He told them but they wont listen AHH which kind rain, rain wet never fail before . They mocked him, but he told them still. Merciful God, gave them 120 years for grace. How many more do we have . Can you guess.

Save yourself from the incoming doom my friends cause hell is real and heaven is real. This is the whole gospel in a nutshell.

@okcornel if anyone cannot lift verses from either BOE or Jasher to contradict the bible then there is no need wasting time. So many people acting like God's deputy criticizing what they dont understand. If their fake teachers write rubbish books in the name of Christiainity, they will accept it quickly because it itching their carnal ears.

Bible is our standard and God is the same Yesterday, today and Forever. Nothing is new. So those books will just fit into scripture.

Issue raised from the book I recall; first, Noah spoke praises to God at birth. But they forget that a donkey spoke to a prophet. If you ask a scientist who from the two has a better chance of speaking the human language, I'm sure your guess is as good as mine.

Second, that Angel's cant copulate with humans. That's funny because even archaeology has proofs of giants and Peter spoke of the sins of angels who were locked up till judgement. What sin did they commit? Furthermore, we r told that the Angel's that kept not their first estate, please which estate r we talking about?

Thirdly, that Enoch spoke to his son methuselah after he had ascended. But they forget that Yeshua spoke to Moses and Elijah in the Mount.

Fourthly, that enoch says 3000 cubits in one verse and 300 cubits in another, but they forget that acts 9 and acts 22 have different accounts of Paul's conversion. One says the guys with him heard the voice that spoke to Paul and the other says they didnt. So should we dump the book of acts also?

My brother, scripture says test all spirit and believe not every spirit. Let's put this book to test as I have and found it to be spirit filled as it points us to Yahweh and even Yeshua. Can u imagine? At a time where Yeshua had not been revealed, Enoch spoke of a son of man sitting on the throne beside Yahweh

Now one guy is saying we need teachers to grow in this NT dispensation . What a clown. I can drop countless scriptures to refute such demonic doctrine. But this is even from Yahweh Hebrews 8:10-11 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. Yahweh made a new covenant tru Yeshua, not like the old where you had priest who served in the altar and sacrifices both for themselves and the sins of the people Heb8 teaches this.

God will put His laws in our hearts, you need not that any teacher teach you. If we all sit down with the KJV bible and study with the Hily Spirit we will all have a testimony of His goodness not one on this thread that sat down and got more confused whereas God is not the author of confusion. Jumping from frying pan to fire . We are to follow the ways of Paul after all he brought this gospel to the gentiles. Paul after conversion sought God alone, he didn't run to the apostles which would seem like the right thing to do. After all, those guys saw Yeshua physically.and he did not

We must all work out our salvation with fear and trembling. The world is evil and the devil is looking for who to devour. So many false prophets and teachers. Any teacher will confirm whatever it is God has already told you if your life is truly sold out to God and you dont chase carnality but You have lost your life in this world to gain Yeshua. Problem is do we sit down to study, we r so engaged with rubbish and cares of this world forgetting that the same bible will be used as a yardstick when we die. We major in the minor and minor in the major. We must die daily and be doers of the word. We must do scripture to show love. Love for God is an action word not about singing and crying and being emotion. Whatever Yeshua has commanded is what we must do. The NT is not an advise but a commandment. We must not chase mammon for God hates it and we cant serve two masters. Mammon is the greatest enemy of the church. The same thing those ancient jews were chasing from their conquered neighbours That's y dey had different gods, gods of agriculture, god of fertility, god of rain, god of thunder, all the things Yahweh gives naturally by serving Him is what people chase that y Yeshua said take no thoughts for your life becos Yahweh wants us to serve Him only.

I pray someone reading this finds place to sit down with the gospel, forget the BOE and Jasher as you dont need it to grow. Know the voice of God from the bible so when other false teacher speak, you can discern foolishness.

Ihedinobi3:

You are exactly right that the enemy's strategy is to attack the Truth. The Truth is the only way that he can be beaten in this world. That is precisely the reason that Satan looks to adulterate it with intrusions and lies like your books of Jasher and Enoch and the long endings of Mark 16 that your brother-in-arms is losing his mind over. This is why pastor-teachers have the responsibility to learn the original languages in which the Bible was written as well as Ancient and Church Histories and textual criticism, so that they can figure out exactly what the original text is.

As for how men have corrupted the Truth and ignored it and formed denominations that are largely antagonistic to the Truth, I agree that that is the case. That is why although I was born into the Methodist Church and had a Roman Catholic heritage and early exposure to the Jehovah's Witnesses and later exposure to various Pentecostal traditions, I don't go to a typical church now. I study under the pastor-teacher in charge of https://ichthys.com, and life has never been better. I happen to know from the Scriptures that that is how spiritual growth to maturity and production for the Lord works: by submitting to someone who possesses both the gift and the necessary preparation for teaching the Truth. You will find this in Ephesians 4, in Paul's admonitions to Timothy, in the examples of the Old Covenant where the priests were tasked with teaching God's Word to the people and the prophets taught anyone who would listen to them what the Lord was saying.

I reacted to the madness in the church visible much as many of us today, obviously including you, do: by deciding to be my own teacher. That is the path to incredible arrogance where you think you know something, but in fact you are incredibly ignorant and very loudly so too. I was there for a few years before the Lord had mercy upon me and led me to a gifted and prepared Bible teacher who could answer all my questions and equip me to read the Bible correctly and begin to see the answers for myself.

Between you and me, I think it is beyond doubt who is being lied to and who believes a load of errors. There is very little that you have said here that has any kind of truth in it. You know almost nothing of what the Bible actually says or what the history is, but you make so much of your own knowledge. I am not afraid of being faced with the Bible or the history, because I know exactly what the Truth is. I can also see where and when I'm in error because I've come to appreciate what the Truth really looks like. Have you?

My man everything I said here is scripture as regards carnality and the church infact you know nothing of scripture to feel that a NT beleiver needs a teacher to grow . That is a lie form hell brother. Hebrew 1 bs1-2. In the past God spoke through the prophets but in this days He spoke through the son. The word of the Son are in black and white. The Apostles has taught All the counsel of God as stated in the NT. SO what exactly is your teacher teaching? It's a crime to distort scripture which is what you have done to say no none can grow without been taught. That my friend is a lie of passion . You r all talk no scripture. If you desperately need a teacher what about the prophet, apostles, evangelist...named before pastors and teachers? Didnt you seek them also. That's y u r so confused because men teach you. You beleive in a verse from a book quoted by Peter n Jude yet you dont beleive the book . Show me one verse that contradicts the bible. Ain't we to test ALL spirits first? How did you jump into conclusion? Let me guess. Your man god told you so you wont think for urself.

In fact if you ask me friend, if you say apostles are done away with then more for the teachers. What r they teaching? To read the bible that is clear? ALL the counsel of God has been packaged in the book so what exactly r u saying? Its fear of man that is your greatest snare. You r afraid to trust God so you chase men . Hence when you were supposed to be alone with Yahweh like Paul you were chasing breakthrough and miracles so how do you expect to hear God. Then you ran after your godteacher.

The bible is enough to navigate us if we are serious with God. If we die to this world and hate this world. If we deny ourselves and carry our cross everyday and follow Him. He won't deny Himself. He said, He that hath my comandment and doeth them, he it is that loves me and He that loves me, I will love and manifest myself to him . Why didnt He manifests himself to you because you were not seeking Him for who He is but for your carnal needs. NO you wont find Him then your teacher comes to finally brainwash you. In sure you cant question your teacher . Just like how you need teachers, then you should look for your godprophet, godevangelist...abi na only teacher pastor you see for that Eph 4 .

Bros my last comment with you. You are more confused than I thought. Just negodu saying you cannot grow without a man .

Between the mistake you making is this. We are not our own teacher but the Holy Spirit will teach you all things. Not your godman but the Holyspirt. So I'm not reacting to the church by being my own teacher, but the Holy Spirit which is all I need is my teacher.

If you dont know the abomination that maketh desolate which even our Lord Yeshua spoke about and Daniel then truly you dont know any truth but what your teacher tells you. You are just wandering round in circle chasing your tails .

No offense bro I'm done commenting unless you ofcourse raise issue on the BOE or Jasher that we can all hear speak and put to test and I will apologize if the Spirit behind the books is examined here and proved evil if not please just keep quiet.

Peace to you

Ihedinobi3:

First of all, I actually quoted a Bible passage, so how is what I said unbiblical? Did I misrepresent what that part of the Bible said? Did Paul not say there that the apostle, the prophet, the evangelist, and the pastor-teacher are all given by the Lord "for the equipping of the saints for the works of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ?" This is actually what Ephesians 4:11-13 says. I did not make it up. I only repeated it in different words. So, your claim is false.

Second, is it your way to look at two Scriptures and prefer one to the other when you think that they disagree? The Scriptures cannot be broken, so Hebrews 8 cannot disagree with Ephesians 4. The question is how they are both true. On the one hand, the Holy Spirit is the Giver of the Gifts and the Empowerer of all of our Service to the Body, so it is really He Who is teaching through the pastor-teacher to the degree that the pastor-teacher diligently yields himself to Him. On the other hand, the prophecy of Hebrews 8 applies in full to the Millennium when the Lord Jesus Himself will be teaching Israel the Truth without any mediators, and the Millennium is only possible because of the Covenant that the Lord Jesus made for us in His Blood.

Third, what is the point of anyone having the gift of teaching, as you admit that some of us do, if we are not to be guided by teachers?

Fourth, what revelations must conform to the written Word if you agree that there are no new revelations? Either there are new revelations that must conform to the written Word just as the New Testament conformed to the Old or else there are no new revelations at all. Which are you claiming to be the case?

Fifth, Paul did tell us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, but I don't see how diligently listening to and obeying reliable teachers of the Truth as he also instructs us to do in Hebrews 13:17 is not the same as working out our Salvation with fear and trembling. Diligently accessing Bible teaching whether by listening to it or reading it or watching it in a video and comparing it to the Scriptures and believing what we are shown by the Scriptures to be true is work. It is the work we are called to do by the Lord (John 6:29; 1 Peter 2:2).

Sixth, clearly John himself was teaching the believers that he was writing to, so he could not have meant that they didn't need to be taught at all. Again, he is actually saying quite clearly that since he is writing to believers, they are not people who need to be taught that Jesus is the Christ. They already knew that. If they didn't, they wouldn't be believers and he wouldn't be writing to them. So, this is not at all a teaching that we don't need teachers.

Seventh, you are right that it is a personal relationship. That is a big part of having a free will. But we are a "called-out assembly," that is, an ekklesia, and as both the Lord and His Apostles taught us (see John 15; 1 Corinthians 12; and the teachings of the Lord's Supper), this assembly is a single unit with various functioning parts that are needed for the mutual building up of the each other to full maturity. We all have a choice whether to do our part in helping each other grow spiritually and produce for the Lord and in receiving such help or not to. That is the sense in which it is a personal relationship: we each make our own choices about spiritual growth and production. It does not mean that we are expected to walk the spiritual walk alone. It does not mean that we are not to use our spiritual gifts to help each other.

Eighth, as for your claims about what these days are and the differing measures of gifts, I see nothing of the sort in the Bible.

Ninth, the Bible IS our guide, and it teaches us to submit to gifted and prepared pastor-teachers in order to grow up spiritually and become able to fulfill our own ministries in the Body. It also teaches us to test each pastor-teacher by comparing what he teaches to what is written in the Bible before trusting him with our spiritual well-being. As for elders (and bishops and overseers) in the New Testament, that is what the Bible called pastor-teachers (Acts 20:28; 1 Peter 5:1-3; Hebrews 13:17). You are exactly right that we are simply to learn what the Apostles taught. The right people to learn that from are pastor-teachers.

Tenth, there are false teachers abroad. There have always been. There were false prophets too even before the First Advent. There were false teachers in Apostles' Day as well. None of that means that we ought not to learn from pastor-teachers. It just means that we have to persevere in looking for gifted and prepared ones until the Lord brings us to them. If we are to avoid submitting to pastor-teachers because there are many who claim to be pastor-teachers who are only teaching lies, then the Corinthians were right to stop listening to Paul because they were being troubled by false "super-apostles" as they were called, and the Pharisees were right to reject the Lord Jesus because there were so many false Messiahs showing up and misleading the people. This is obviously wrong. We are commanded to test and prove all things and hold fast that which is good. If someone claims to be a pastor-teacher, test him and see if he is really one. If he is not, get away from him. If he is, settle in and receive spiritual nourishment and protection from him. That is the right way to deal with things, not to reject pastor-teachers altogether. That is not the biblical way.

Eleventh, as I said above, although we are many, we are one Body, and we have different gifts that are supposed to be used to build each other up spiritually. I know no part of the Bible that teaches either that we don't need teachers or that Christianity has been desolated at all. That is one of those things that you are unilaterally making up with no biblical proof.

Twelfth, the Bible is supposed to be our guide, as you said. Still, it would seem that you couldn't care less that it teaches us not to stand alone but to diligently seek the Truth, that is, to learn from those whom the Lord has by Himself gifted and prepared for the work of teaching believers the Truth so that they can grow go maturity and become able to fulfill their ministries in the Body of Christ. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that it is better to stand alone than to seek teachers. It does say that it is a sign of the wickedness of the last days that people reject sound teaching and prefer to collect around them multitude teachers to tell them what they want to hear. Quite often, that is exactly what those who claim to stand alone do: they read all manners of things written by all kinds of people with all kinds of agenda, and then they get puffed up with their pseudo-knowledge and begin to throw their weight around as teachers, leading everyone who is foolish enough to listen to them into terrible error and even apostasy (2 Timothy 3:1-9, 13; 4:3-4).

Now, I will tell you something that I hope that you will hear. I could be wrong, because the heart of man is very deceitful, but I think that you may be willing to respond to the Truth. You clearly understand that something is violently wrong with the church visible. That is a great step forward for you. To own that the churches and self-appointed shepherds in the churches today have a completely different agenda than the Great Shepherd Himself is the beginning of coming out from the spiritually near-dead assemblies that dot the face of the Earth. But when you actually leave them, you must seek for those who can teach you the Truth. It is impossible to grow spiritually and become strong enough to do your own part in the Church without proper spiritual nutrition, and that is the job of pastor-teachers: to feed you and protect you when you come out of those vile places where the wolves are consuming the sheep (Ezekiel 34:1-10). Gifted and prepared pastor-teachers exist. Although they are very few and far between, the Lord makes one available every time someone is willing to drop their arrogance and learn the Truth. But you have to actually demonstrate the willingness to learn from one by actually actively seeking them. I have seen for myself that when someone is unwilling to learn, the very gift of a pastor-teacher is wasted on them. In fact, pastor-teachers typically learn that it is best to stop offering their services and just take themselves out of the way to some place where anyone who actually wants to learn can find them.

No true pastor-teacher is in it for the money or the notoriety. They don't care to be visible. Theirs is a very sensitive job, and it is one that must be done with the utmost care. Failure carries a huge loss with it and major repercussions from the Lord. So, you will not soon find a pastor-teacher taking your trust in him lightly. If you will hear what I am saying, take the next step and actually submit to someone whom the Lord has prepared to help you become able to withstand the pressures of this war until the Lord returns for us.

Firstly you r rong saying that elders are same as pastor/teachers . Elder is by election as any man can desire that role as explained by Paul but a teacher/pastor is a gift of the Holy Spirit like every other gift. Again, you r wrong placing a pastor/teacher as the watchman over the flock whereas the elder is actually the watchman by way of experience as seen in Act 20.

You are right as I agree that they r people who have the gift of expounding scriptures but my brother there is no where in the NT that states that you r subject to them in fact it's the elders that you r subject to because they acted as church leaders. The bible rather teaches us to be subject to one another and submit to one another. God can also bring His word through any beleiver in the congregation and if your pastor/teachers are the only ones speaking everytime then you r not in the true church. The pastor/teacher was not placed as an overseer but the elders. Besides it's not psstor/teacher but pastor and teachers, two different gifts of the spirit. Not all are called to be teachers but all are called to be taught by God through the word.

Besides, there is no where In the NT where it states that you cannot grow without a man teaching you scripture . All you need is the sincere milk of the word which is the Bible and a willing heart. The new covenant states that All will be taught of God. John telling them that they need not that any man teach them was In reference to many false teachers. He told them that they know all things because they have already been taught. Haven't we already been taught by the bible? Dont we know all things from scriptures? So whatever any other person says will be in conformity with the word. The church is not a place where on teacher talks everytime. NO SIR. We r all brethren and all priests and Kings. Your teacher is not your Oracle. He too needs to be sat down and taught.

I agree it important to hear a gifted teacher to further expound the word but that teacher is not your lifeline. I dont go around seeking one bro and am at my best place spiritually. Its expected of christains to grow and there is nothing He wants to say that the Holy Spirit cannot teach you.

I dont think you sought after the God on your own because everybody that did so sincerely in scripture found Him . Y didnt you until you found your pastor? What you stated my friend makes me worry . Because Yeshua is light. And he that dwelleth in light CANNOT be in darkness. Where I am now bro is a place of zero confusion because the word is my guide. Forget about the Book of Enoch or Jasher because you guys killing these books cannot bring one verse that contradicts the bible instead you sit in your place of authority shooting down what you haven't read?.In all these things if your pastor doesn't teach you not to love this world nor to be carnality minded them you haven't started to know the real Christ. Because now, everybody is seeking God to enhance their lives or career. But we are to be dead to this world. That's all that matters bro. Forget greek and hebrew translation, the KJV is enough for the Spirit.

You dont need anyone to break down any words in greek or hebrew before you understand the scriptures . All the teachings have already been done because the WHOLE GOSPEL has been taught so what is new. What we need is the Holy Spirit to teach us not your pastor or teacher . If you have one then great but if you dont, forget it. These is not the old testament where God is giving you pastors after His own heart but this is the NT where God resides in you and will teach you himself with the word as a guide. We are to be brought to remembrance of the teachings of the apostles so I really dont know what your pastor teacher will teacher. Teach you how to read?

The teacher and pastor r like any other ministry gift, nothing special. So let me ask you. If your teacher teaches, then who teaches him? We are to admonish ourselves as Paul stated in Corinthains and other epistles. Dont get me wrong, teachers are needed but just like prophets, apostles, and the other gifts. We are not to seek them like our lives depends on them. We are all sons and are capable of understanding scriptures. I agree that all should not teach because teacher have a higher query before God as we understand from scripture.

Think about it, why didnt Paul seek after the apostles immediately after conversion? Teachers are good but camping with the Holy spirit and your KJV is the best my man esp in these days were the true church is hard to decipher .

Peace to you.

Ihedinobi3:

You're exactly right.

There are many false teachers out there. It isn't always easy to find reliable pastor-teachers. I started searching for reliable teaching from childhood, and I read everything, went to many churches, listened to and watched a large number of "pastors," "evangelists," "bishops," "apostles," and whatnot in my search. Whether they were just charismatic or academics or mystics, I listened to them all. In my frustration, I gave up looking for teachers and decided to teach myself.

The Lord was merciful to me and wouldn't let me settle into self-deceit, so although I spent a long time pretending to be a mature believer and even teaching the things that I was not so sure were true (you can check my old Nairaland account https://www.nairaland.com/ihedinobi2 for proof), I did not lie to myself about things that I simply didn't understand in the Bible, nor did I lie to myself that we are not responsible to learn everything the Bible has to teach us.

Eventually, I got off of Nairaland and tried to figure the whole business of life out. That culminated in a desperate cry to the Lord in 2016. In that prayer, I confessed my ignorance and confusion and my need to learn the Truth. It was a desperate cry. I was terrified that I had destroyed my life with my arrogance up to that point. The Lord was very kind to me. About a year from then, on October 3, 2017, a Google search about whether Christians should be competitive in business led me to https://ichthys.com that was so deep into the results that I think I found it close to the fourth or tenth page, I can't remember which. I read a snippet from this link and got hooked. I had no idea that the webpage was actually book-length, but I read it through and went "into" the website to find more. I ended up spending the next nine months or so reading all the major works on the site, and I have remained with the ministry until now. For the first time in the more than three decades of my life, I am finally seeing the Bible clearly and appreciating the way life works according to God's Plan. For the first time too, I can exercise my pastor-teaching gift without fear that I am misleading anyone who listens to me.

This is all what Paul taught us in the Holy Spirit in Ephesians 4:

[11]And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
[12]for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
[13]until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.
[14]As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;
[15]but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,
[16]from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.
Ephesians 4:11-16 NASB

That is, the Lord gave some gifts for the specific job of growing the Church to maturity. The Apostle, the prophet, the pastor-teacher, and the evangelist are given by the Lord to build up the Church by bringing in new believers through the dispensation of the Gospel to unbelievers who are willing to hear and receive it (the job of the Apostle and the evangelist especially), and feeding these new believers with the Truth of God's Word so that they come to understand what the Gospel they believed is really about and become resilient to the lies of the enemy that war against their souls (the job of the Apostle, prophet, and pastor-teacher). When these new believers have learned the full system of Truth in the Bible, that is, when they have come to appreciate and believe the full picture of Bible teaching, not necessarily when they have come to know every single detail of teaching in the Bible, they are mature spiritually and can handle life in this world with considerably less risk of losing their faith in the midst of the lies and pressures of this world. At this point, they experience the tests of maturity that the Lord sends to harden them in their spiritual progress, so that they are able to help other believers to also develop and progress in the Truth.

If they pass those tests, the Lord gives them their own ministries according to the spiritual gifts that they have by the New Birth. Then they can do their own part in the Church to help new believers come to the Faith and help existing believers progress and grow in the Truth. Each ministry is different, and not everyone is an apostle, prophet, pastor-teacher, or evangelist. Some of us have gifts that are not even listed in the Bible, but regardless what our gifts are, they are a spiritual ability to help other believers to get to the Truth of the Bible, either by leading them to the Gospel or helping evangelists to get to them with the Gospel or by helping them get to a pastor-teaching ministry where the believer can hear the Truth and grow spiritually. As an example, someone who is gifted as a giver would have considerable ability to discern true need and how to minister to it so that the needy can actually grow in the Truth without stumbling over the gift that they are given by the giver. Believe me, it may sound simple, but it is a very skillful thing indeed. If a giver does not know biblical truth as well as he should, he will waste his material resources in his generosity and accomplish little of spiritual value to the Lord.

Furthermore, since the Apostles and prophets were given by the Lord for providing a revelation of the Truth to the Church through the writing of the Bible (Ephesians 2:20, compare Revelation 21:14; Acts 1:8 ), they were removed from the Church after the Bible was completed. The highest officers left in the Church now are pastor-teachers (1Corinthians 12:28 ) who are responsible to interpret the Revelation that the Apostles and prophets witnessed to and left behind in the Bible for other believers. There is no new Revelation and there will not be until the Lord returns to destroy Satan's hold on the Earth and reclaim the Earth for Himself. At that time, during the Millennium, the Lord will be teaching the unresurrected directly.

So, we cannot learn the Truth without the help of pastor-teachers, but, just as you said, we cannot trust everyone who claims to be a pastor-teacher, or even an apostle or prophet to be who they claim to be unless we test them against the Scriptures. Clearly, if anyone claims to be a prophet or apostle, they lie, unless by apostle they mean missionary. As for the pastor-teacher, we simply test what they teach and see if it is consonant with the Bible. There are very few true pastor-teachers. The gift is not merely what qualifies one to teach. Like every other believer, one with a pastor-teaching gift must grow spiritually and become mature, as well as face the tests of maturity. Then, in addition, they must go through a rigorous preparation that involves learning the languages that the original Bible was written in, that is, Ancient Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic; learning textual criticism; and learning Ancient History and Church History. These tools are critical to dealing with the lies that weak believers are constantly being harassed with, and the pastor-teacher's job is not just to feed the believer with the Truth: it is also to protect him from the many insidious lies that the enemy threatens the spiritual safety of believers with.

I'm happy to encounter you here. It's good to see that you have and do use your spiritual common sense. I encourage you to find and commit to a reliable pastor-teaching ministry, if you haven't already - and you very well may have already - and hone that common sense into a sharp tool for making your way up the Mountain that we are called to assault.

Grace be with you.

Its very unbiblical to assume you need a pastor teacher to guide you as a NT beleiver. Heb 8vs 9- 11. This is not to say that some dont have a gift of teaching but ALL will be taught of God. Like you said rightly, the offices that the apostle occupied, no man can occupied again because God used them to lay the foundation of Christianity and another foundation can no man lay again than that which is laid. So there r no new revelations as ALL revelations must conform to the written word.

Paul, Peter and John admonished beleivers to work out your own salavtion, to prove all things. Beleivers have direct access to God and can know the mind of God independent of third party. 1 john 2 vs 27. Says ...you need not that any man teach you" it's a personal relationship not corporate. It becomes a church when we all come with our heart that has already been circumcised not waiting for man to instruct you. Christian's are supposed to know what God is saying and to know the voice of God via spending time in the word and being taught of the Holy Spirit. These are not the days of the prophets were a man expounds scripture these are the days where All men can know God and expound scripture. Are some gifted in higher measure of teaching? Definately but not to the point where to fully instruct another beleiver as all beleivers if they allow God will know the voice of God fully and not need anyone to validate scripture. For instance, if I have one talent in teaching and you have 10 talents. If I utilise my 1 talent and you teach with your 10 talents, whatever you teach will be in alignment and agreement with what my 1 talent is worth.

The bible esp the NT should be the guide for any beleiver. We are all brethren and none is set higher than the other. The only office which were special were elders and deacons and these were for organisational purposes to ensure order not for commanding or directing or declaring the words of the Lord like some special being . These was allowed for the apostles because they were used by God to usher in the NT. So their words were scripture. We are to learn what has already been taught by them and pass it down through out generations without bringing in new revelations as we see today.

For instance, the doctrine of mammoth is a heavy devilish doctrine which almost all church practice but from the writings of the apsotlez, these was heavily frowned against. The beleivers were eternity minded and not carnal minded. They were not looking to be like Dangote or Otedola . They were not doing business seminars in their gathering. PAUL said in Roman's I decided not to know anything amongst you except Yeshua and Him crucified. Please dont get me wrong, I'm a successful business man but I'm waiting for The second coming. That what should be in beleivers minds not that car, or house or contract .

God did not redeem us to carnal things my friend but now all churches practically teach this. The bible teaches contentment but the 'church' teaches excesses.

You dont need teachers infact just like how the 2nd temple was destroyed and The jews dispersed that's what we have now in these last days. Christianity has been desolated and the abomination of desolation set in place as prophesied by Yeshua. He said when you see the abomination of desolation set in place know that the end is near

Do you know what d abomination that makes desolate? . Dont run after men as you have been given all thing that pertain into life and godliness. The world is evil and it's better to stand alone and make heaven than seek teachers. Yes if you find good honest ones not the ones that want God to enlarge your earthly coast and give you business expansion while you have no treasures in heaven . The ones that help you build mansions on earth but you have none in heaven. Understand that everytime Yeshua appeared in the NT it was for His kingdom advancement not to give Paul an oil exploration jobs or miracle spouse or babies . Yeshua is all spirit and He expects us not to dwell on earthly things because the earth will be destroyed all the same. So yes, that you job is not the glory or blessing of God . That your house or car is not the blessing of God. Any fool can make money. You dont even need God to make money .

Carnal minded is the 'church' of today. The abomination that makes desolate has been set as the representation of the Most High just like Zeus was set on the altar in the temple of God. We must seek out and come out from amongst them and be ye separate.

Ihedinobi3:

A book of Jashar was quoted in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18, but I see no reason to believe that it is the same as the book you are so crazy for. Why should I believe that they are the same? Also, the book mentioned in the Bible was not quoted by the Bible at all, nor was it endorsed by the Bible as inspired at all. So, even if that that book exists today and is accessible, we have no reason to believe that it is inspired. As for filling gaps in the Bible, I'm sure you are free to believe in such fictions, if you please.

As for being scared of other books, I'm not sure how I have communicated such a thing, although it is certainly wise to be wary of anything that is not afraid of pretending to be words of God. It is a terrible thing to put words in God's Mouth. Those who do it have a very bad end waiting for them. So, I would be very happy to not be in their midst. None of that means that I haven't read books like the Book of Enoch. In fact, I sampled it a bit just for the conversations here. Growing up, we had a Catholic Bible at home that had the Apocrypha in it. I did try to read them, and I got deep enough into them to wonder why they were even in the Bible, and I was a kid then. I don't remember anyone telling me that anything was wrong with having those extra books then, but it was clear to me that they were different from the other books. So, try to stick with what you actually know to be true so that you don't make bogus claims.

As for letting anyone do this or that, I am sure that I have said it multiple times that anyone who wants to can read anything they want. I don't even care if you want to write stuff and call it Scripture too. That's your own business. But if you try to persuade the children of God that have been given to me to protect that it is Scripture, then I will oppose you. Even so, I fully recognize that I can't stop even those in my charge from reading things that will only harm their faith in the Lord. So, there is no "letting" or "preventing" happening here except in your own head. I'm not stopping you or anyone from reading whatever you want to read. I can't even stop you from pretending that it is Scripture. But you cannot persuade me or anyone who is willing to listen to me to join you in that madness.

You are right that the taste of the pudding is in the eating. You can tell if something is inspired by reading it, but if we must read everything before we can be sure what is inspired and what is not, then we will never be sure what "all the Truth" that the Holy Spirit is supposed to lead us into is (John 16:13). Thankfully, we don't have to read everything to know what is inspired. As I told you in another post, Scripture was known as it was being written. From that time on, it was collected together and distributed authoritatively. We have today the literature that believers received from Old Testament prophets and New Testament Apostles and preserved for us to learn from too. We know not only that it is all Scripture, but also that it is complete. Anything outside of those 66 books and letters may be illuminating for understanding them, for example, the writings of pastor-teachers, but nothing else is Scripture at all. If you want to pretend that it is just because there are so many books in the world, some of them fraudulently bearing names and titles stolen from the Bible, that is really your own kettle of fish. It's not the believer's problem at all.

You are like many others on here that I have met and discussed with. You know very little of Truth, but you take that little and foul it up with a vast amount of lies that essentially lead you into perdition and then proceed to make yourself a stumbling block to those who believe. I am not on your side, because you really do not believe the Bible at all. You make stuff up and you listen to made-up stuff that you proceed to try to mix into what the Bible actually says, and it is a very heady mix that drops you straight into Apostasy. So, yes, I do believe the Bible, but you clearly don't. That is why you want to put words in God's Mouth.

If you really believe, as you say, that the Bible is more than enough, you should quit adding stuff to it. As I have said, if fiction is your thing, by all means, enjoy it, but don't call it Scripture just because you like it. If you love God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, not only will you respect Them enough to not put words in Their Mouth, but you will also care for the welfare of Their Church and not put believers bought with precious Blood at spiritual risk with lies.

As I said, I don't see any reason why anyone would claim that the Book of Enoch is inspired at all. It is obviously a work of fiction that pretends to have something to do with Jude.

Not sure what your last paragraph means.

Edited.

From the beginning, the one thing that has been attacked is the word of God. Man has been working hand in hand with the devil to truncate the salvation plan of God just like God has been in cooperation with man to retain it.

Let's leave these books and speak on the bible as we know it. Do you even beleive or know the doctrine of Christ. Are we to take whatever has been handed down to us as authentic even in the light of scripture? Everyone has the bible but do we understand the doctrine of the NT testament? We r still talking about BOE and Jasher that were not included, what about the books that have been included that the doctrine has been perverted by Man?

Do you know that the church as we have it is not what the early apostles left behind? That the enemy has fully infiltrated the church and is spreading it's own doctrine?. If you have read the NT you will quickly discover that what you read is not what you hear on the pulpits. These early apostles were sold out to God . There were not carnal minded but now all the messages are on how God will enlarge you, bless you, give you that job e.t.c we have substituted the great God for mammoth. Now, a beleiver wakes up in the morning and all he thinks about is that shell job, or nnpc contract, that husband she needs, that car she asked God for.....forgetting that Yeshua said TAKE NO THOUGHTS.....in Roman's it states that Carnal mindedness is enemy with God . Do you know what that means. It means that you cannot equates carnal thing to service of God. Now in church people share testimonies of how God blessed them with cars, spouses, jobs . Like that's the gospel?

In the early church these men were losing their lives and possessions but we r being taught to gain our lives and possessions . My brother did you know that Yeshua did not come to die to give your riches . He came that you may have life and have it more abundantly? What is that life? A life of wealth and splendour like these men have made us beleive? Yeshua had disciples who had to leave ALL to follow Him? And now we are being thought to gain ALL and follow Him?.

You are so scared to question man thinking you will be questioning God whereas Gid wants you to reason with Him not man . Now we have In the church, one man who always brings the word and God only speaks to Him whereas the gifts of God have been given to all and we are all to admonish one another. Paul even thought that if ANY has a word.... . That God has given to ALL in different measures and we are not to dominate ourselves but that all are equal before God? That the eye cannot say to the ears that he is more important, that all the members of the body are equal?

The whole foundation of the church has been corrupted bro. We live in the last days friend and its perilous times. Now men of God preach peace and prosperity but the picture Yeshua paints is directly opposite . That the last days will be filled with destruction and perilous times. That at the end so many false prophets will arise. That the way is narrow. Abeg from all the churches in this world does it seem like the road is narrow? Doesnt it look like all is well?. That alot of folks are going to heaven?

Now we have carnal minded christains who have forgotten that the main message of the Bible Is the salvation of the soul for eternity. All the early church pointed us to was eternal life . That faith is the substance of things hoped for.....everytime you see hope in NT its talking about hope for eternity....the evidence of things not seen. What we dont see is heaven my friend. Scripture says "while we look not at the things that are seen but at the things not seen, for the things seen are temporal but the things not seen are eternal". Faith is not the substance of carnal things hoped for. . It's not the evidence of your car or job or house or yacht . Dont forget to be carnality minded is enmity with God and he that worship Yahweh must worship Him in Spirit not carnality or flesh but Spirit and truth.

Mature sons of God who are eating meat knows that you are not subject to man. After all we are called into liberty but the traditions have taught us to be subject to a select few who administer the oracles of God forgetting that we are not under the old guard but New. That you cannot mix old wine in new wine skin. Besides we were all gentiles who had to learn salvation.

Now we have men who say that the Spirit of Elijah and Elisha are greater forgetting the words of the Lord that everyone born of woman, none has been as great as Jojn the Baptist but he that is least from the Kingdom of God is greater than John . And someone will still take us back to when Elijah was alive? Forgetting that Peter says these men of Old wondered at the type of salvation that the world will see at the time of Yeshua because they saw the coming of the messiah. Yeshua also told the apostle that their eyes are blessed because prophets of old longed to see what they see but could not.

So now we have scared and carnal Christian's who are scared to be independent from man and fully dependent on God.

I'm saying all these so that you see that even the 66 books that we have have been perverted in doctrine by the devil so it shouldn't be strange to you if some books are left out all together.

Tell your pastor to stop lieing to you. The world will be destroyed and for those who acquire wealth and think godliness is gain it will be a surprise. Like in the days of Noah so shall it be. For men shall be building and expanding . False doctrines shall be In abundance and the prophesy of peace will be loudest but the foundation of the Lord stand the sure. Dont be to trusting of man my friend. Man is evil but Hod is supreme. Dont be scared to question man. Because questioning man is NOT questioning God infact questioning man is really pleasing God.

We have really not heard the gospel my friend. What is being preached is not what Yeshua nor the apostles died for. Never think all is well for we have to always press into the Kingdom. It's not given on an platter. We have to discover it. Remember Yeshua words, it like a man that finds treasure, y will you. Be finding treasure if its given you on a platter. We must dig to discover the true gospel as man in collaboration with Lucifer has hidden it .

I'm saying all these but I perceive you wont get my points but it's also for posterity. For anyone who has questioned the rot and decadence in the church but ofcourse the prosperity is well known forgetting that Lucifer is the God of these world. Now we are taught to first look out for wealth before we look out for grace . Grace of God is measured by the scale of dollars and naira .

It's a personal race my friend, a race to escape the coming doom and destruction of this present world. Because the wicked will do more wickedly as the wicked days unfold until full consummation of this wicked earth

Ihedinobi3:

I'm afraid I don't see how you have been speaking with any less authority with your very large claims and no proof.

As for your claims about Enoch's nationality, neither your argument about language nor your appeal to the book of Jasher is any kind of reasonable proof. For the first, the Bible is clear that God created nations only in response to the Tower of Babel debacle in Genesis 11. The people that existed before that time were never called a nation or Hebrews. We are not even told what the language they all spoke was. Of course, it is my thinking too that it was very likely Hebrew because of Isaiah 19:18 and Zephaniah 3:9, but that is not at all proof that anybody who existed before Abraham was any kind of Hebrew. The nation Israel did not exist then because nations did not exist then (see also Genesis 12:2).

For the second, I might as well quote Alexander Fleming or Ghandi or Buddha to prove that something that the Bible does not say at all is true. Why should it matter to me what your book of Jasher says? Did God inspire it? If it says that the Hebrew nation existed before God created nations, then it most definitely contradicts Genesis, since Moses wrote that the nations only came into existence after Nimrod's rebellion with the Tower of Babel (Genesis 10:32; cf. Genesis 11:1-9), which occurred a century after the Flood, for that matter.

As for the angels that Peter spoke of, they were those that took human women in Genesis 6 to produce the Nephilim with. That was their sin. They, like the people of Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, "went after strange flesh." It was the Lord God Himself Who had them chained up in the Abyss for that wickedness. Moses, Peter, and Jude witness to this. I don't need an extrabiblical source to help me believe or understand it.

As for the canonization of the books of the Bible, I did make this comment that it suited you to ignore, so I don't see the sense in answering you again here. I think that, just like your comrade OkCornel, you care nothing for whether you lie or tell the truth as long as you can seduce and bully others into your rebellion against the Lord. If this were not true, I'm sure you would give more attention to the claims that you make and make sure that they are actually true.

I'm not sure what your comments about churches are about. I don't believe that I have said anything in that regard here.

As for reading, by all means do. It is always best to read the Bible, that is, actual Scripture, not merely pretend Scripture, though. So, although I have read a lot of things and still do, the Bible decides for me what is true and what is false. I don't pretend to the ability to tell what is true and what is false without the help of the Bible. So, I lean very heavily on the Bible to say anything that I say. I certainly don't demand that you believe the Bible. Believe it, if you want. Don't, if you prefer. It's your gain and your loss, not mine.

As for all your accusations of arrogance, saying that no one has the monopoly of knowledge is just a sneaky way of trying to hide all your own claims to that monopoly. Are you not the one who has been mocking "us" (whoever you meant by "you guys" ) for not reading like you? Your great knowledge from books is apparently supposed to be emulated by "us," not least because it is just as "Yeshua" was. I am almost never surprised or deceived by your likes with your accusations of arrogance while you yourself are being unspeakably arrogant and your claims to knowledge when you are abominably ignorant.

Do you know the book of Jasher was quoted atleast twice in the old testament? . And anyone who reads that book will see how it fills in gaps in the bible? The bible is after all a historical account brother.

That you r scared of other books that are not in your conventional bible shouldn't make you run down the books. Atleast allow other read and discern. The only way to know if a book is inspired or not is to atleast read it . That's y we have d Holy Spirit. He will teach you all things.

Atleast you r not muttey dat is hopelessly blinded . You beleive in the fallen angels story and it makes me know you beleive in the bible. That's all that matters. Leave others who wanna go d extra to gain understanding by way of BOE or Jasher because that bible you holding is not ALL of the words of Yeshua .

The important thing is to love God and His son Yeshua and it matters not if you read Jasher or Enoch. The 66 books are more than Enuff mate. I respect people who respect d bible as you clearly do by acknowledging what Peter and Jude said. Muttey is lost .

Please ill try n make this my last post here because the bible is enough and promoting a book is not the gospel however, it's also wrong to knock down a book esp if there r no evidences to prove its apostasy. All the issues raised here on Enochs apostasy have been answered. Truly, if Enoch is an inspired word, it must mirror the known word which it does.

No blasphemy, and every issue raised can be examples from the bible

Ihedinobi3:

About Enoch, I agree completely with you and thank you kindly for clarifying.

As for reading additional info, the trouble, I suppose, is how to know that the information that you are reading is actually true if it is not in the Bible. Those who are arguing so vociferously for the Book of Enoch here and elsewhere claim that the age of the book and the fact that it was read by early believers prove that it is reliable. Neither of these claims are either sufficient or necessarily true. But my point for raising them with you is that Enoch is a part of the story that God tells us in the Bible. Where then could anybody get any more information about him outside the Bible?

Enoch was of the seventh generation from Adam, which means that anything that he may have written or which may have been written contemporaneously about him is unlikely to have survived this long. That is without even accounting for the worldwide Flood of Noah's Day. Assuming that human beings had begun to write during Enoch's time so that any information about him was written then, Noah would have had to preserve it from the Flood. Then generations after him would have had to preserve that writing in the changed physical conditions of the world since that time. None of these things is very probable or particularly possible without the Lord's Own Involvement.

In fact, the Lord was not concerned with preserving anything for us that way. His Plan was to give us the Truth through the nation Israel, so the first time that the Truth was written down for preservation for believers was when Moses wrote the Pentateuch at God's Command. Moses, just like Jude later on, was given revelations of the past to write about Enoch. He didn't learn about Enoch merely from any previously written sources. How do we know that? Because the Bible makes quite clear to us that Moses wrote what God told Him or showed Him (Exodus 24:4; 34:1; Deuteronomy 31:9, 22). The nation Israel began only through Abraham who was the first Hebrew (the sign of circumcision that marked out the Hebrew was given when Abraham was 99). Enoch was not a Hebrew or a Jew, as someone here has claimed, nor was Noah, nor, in fact, any patriarch before Abraham. Abraham was the first.

So, how could we possibly have any additional information about Enoch outside the Bible? Honestly, I can't see how. Clearly, the Book of Enoch was not written by Enoch - those who are making so much noise about it here admit that it wasn't written before 300 BC, and Enoch lived around 4000 BC. The book does present itself as written by Enoch too, so how could it have been written so much later than Enoch lived? But they don't care that they are lying. As for any other source of information about Enoch, it must of necessity be prophetic, since, as I have said, no writing could have survived so long from Enoch to us without God's Own Involvement, and if God was involved in preserving it, it would be part of the Bible, but it isn't, because it isn't God-breathed at all, which also means that it isn't prophetic at all (2 Peter 1:20-21).

Please understand me. I am not insisting that you agree with me. I am just explaining what I believe to be true. You are free to reject what I say.

What I can say for Enoch is that the Lord made a point of noting him to encourage believers who will live to see the Second Advent. He was a demonstration of the living Resurrection (not that he was resurrected, no, he was only translated, but he was a demonstration to us of the Lord's Power to exclude physical death for believers). This is important because believers of Enoch's Day knew that physical death was part of our punishment from the Lord, but they very likely had no idea what would happen to those who lived and believed until the Return of the Lord to retake the Earth from Satan. It is significant to note that both his translation and the only prophecy attributed to him by the Bible point to the Second Advent. That was what the Lord wanted us to see about him. It is not wise then to go beyond what is written in the Bible because then we would lose the precious truth that the Lord is graciously giving to us through Enoch's example.

All you guys that speak with so much authority like God consults you before He does His will.

Enoch was not a Hebrew? If you were well read you would have known that the first language was hebrew before babel. Or do you think it was English or Igbo? The book of Jasher which was also mentioned in the bible enlightens us on this. All you guys dat wont read but just act as Gods mouth piece like you and God existed together since inception. Lol.

Whatever makes anyone sleep at night. Truth cannot be hidden. Who were d Angel's Peter spoke of? Which sin and who reserved them in hell?

These bible you guys are talking about lol do you know the men that canonized it? Lol. Iz like saying herod's renovation of the 2nd temple were from God. Lol. D man did it for personal reasons and God was not part of it. It's amazing how people think that some books put together by man is all God has said since inception of Man. Same man that now tells us what the church is about?

If you follow the system of man on how to relate with God we will quickly find out that the devil has infiltrated the church and is changing times and seasons. Even the church as we have it now is not what the NT apostles preached. The Catholics diluted it and every other denomination is simply an offshoot of the traditions of man.

At last God knows them that are serving Him. No one has monopoly of knowledge. Read and read more to understand by books. Even Yeshua had to read to understand His assignment. Yeshua had to apply himself to understanding scriptures as He always quoted from it.

Please I'm not trying to convince anyone to read it. In fact pls dont. But the truth should not be distorted. If you cannot say anything that BOE said to contradict d bible then pls let's hold our peace and stop judging after appearances. Our minds are limited to human understanding. We are not God and cannot think like Him. The bible with 66 books remains the authority and foundations/marking scheme for other books like BOE and as today, the book passes with flying colors when mirrored with the bible. Lol.

I

MuttleyLaff:
What is the meaning of all this gobuchinny that you've put up here, huh?. I am flabbergasted that you're trying still very hard to remain permanently confused. If you're not confused, then, it means you've not and you are not paying attention. Smh.

I can't be forever running back and forth and keep on repeating myself like a broken record, so in order not to waste space, waste internet ink like my brother from another mother, CaveAdullam will say, waste my valuable and precious time to reply to this, I have used my better judgement to reproduce starting from the second page of this thread, my earliest responses in advancing incontrovertible facts, backed with figures, various appropriate and relevant bible verses

You see the above MuttleyLaff mentions, I just singled out those few, there are more, trust me, lol, they are evidences of me previously telling what is was, Peter discussed in his letter, and what also Jude discussed in his own letter, before they each began to begin lambast the false teachers etcetera and denounce the BoE. Your problem gobuchinny, is you hardly and/or at all, don't read long posts and even if you do, you dont understand whats in it and you are abysmally forgetful. What a shame, what a waste of talent, what a way to squander the potentials God gifted you with gobuchinny, smh.

For the first time I have read ALL your rubbish and I must congratulate you on your continued foolishness .

You are an apostate dear brother for I have alot of things to say about your lies and assumptions and private interpretations of already very clear scriptures. Scriptures that even a mad man will read and immediately know what the writer meant are the same scriptures you read and draw devilish conclusions . That Jude was speaking against false teachers that spoke about the fallen Angel's? @okcornel is this guy ok at all? What perversion of scripture is this?

Thank God this not the dark ages where some few people have the bibles. We all ha e it and can read it. So muttey the false prophet wont give us his own village interpretations of already clear scrpiture.

I have no strength to discuss further as I have points to trash all these lies you r spreading? We know you naa. And your father the devil is your task master. I leave you to God and trust that any sane mind would ask the Holy Spirit to lead them and trust ONLY the word of God(bible) to lead them on their journey because the world is evil and so many men have elevated themselves above God and His word. Men that beleive they know the mind of God and can explain all mysteries and explain the minds of the writers of scripture . Men that beleive all knowledge begins and ends with them.

I stand with the word of God Muttey. Any spirit filled beleiver knows what Jude and Peter were trying to say. All you have to do is read them from the beginning and see as they linked the talk on Angel's. They used the fallen angel discuss to buttress their points.Your devilish explanation will never hold water with real sons that know their Gid and His voice. For His sheep knows His voice and the voice of a hireling (Muttey ) they will not hear.

Peace.

Eviana:


Never even seen a copy of the "Book of Enoch" before, but I've heard the endless debate it.
I have always been fascinated with how Godly this man must have been to be "taken up" with God...and not see death.
I read some additional info on him though.
I'm a "sister"..

Yes Enoch has always fascinated me sister. How a man can serve God to a point that God needs him in heaven . I also discovered the catholic church intent to hide that book because it powerfully implicates the world system as we have it. Those that trust in their strength and wealth. It speaks against the carnal mind and how love for God is essential. How the world will end and the messiah will come before the last days. Enoch saw Yeshua before any other book spoke of God's son..can you imagine that? That's the book some say is accursed? A book that glorifies the Son in a time no one even knew God had a son

It's a powerful book but like I always say, if someone has not read and digested the NT scriptures and the bible as we have it then the person has no business reading Enoch or Jasher. Truth is the devil has infiltrated the work of God and pollute its ways. There is an abomination of desolation presently in place. If he could we wont even have a bible. People dont kno that even the bible as we have it was canonized by evil men . Men who hated God. Men who were perverse to the works of God. God always protects His word because if not the works would have been lost.

BOE is a great read for the mature Christian as you must first know the voice of God from the bible before reading such books if not you will be in a valley of confusion and total darkness like some people are. Then the letter begins to kills whereas the spirit behind the letter should give you life.