₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
LoLz, answer the question I posed to you first then you can ask me a question in return, that's how conversations work.

is that your moral standard of having a conversation 😁

In what I wrote is my answer to you

budaatum:
Children may not be that dumb to think hens tortoise and hare talk because they can use their eyes and ears to see and hear they don't. Unfortunately, when it comes to Jesus, most believe what they have never seen or heard in real life, and create imaginary stories to convince themselves that what they believe is true.

The stories in the Bible are extremely valuable once understood, but most value belief instead.

so a cripple that got healed and started to walk created what imaginary story for themselves that made them walk

You don't expect someone who has seen or experienced something you have never done to have the same reasoning with you, do you?

While you're typing all these some people some where in the world are having encounters with God or the supernatural.

jaephoenix:
So we don't have criminals here masquerading as Christians?

everywhere not just here

LordReed:
Where did I say anything about anyone being right or wrong about a god existing? I said I don't have evidence for any god, simple.

Can you tell me the reason you think slavery ending is not a change of moral stance.

There is nothing immoral about laughing at people's beliefs especially when such beliefs are unreasonable.

Are you getting salty because I said jokes on you? LoLz. The same you who said: 'You amuse me', Bwahahahahaha!

😑 u seriously don't know the person that championed the end of slavery in UK? That the person believed strongly in God 😳

Lol which yeye change of moral stand changed slavery, oya educate us, and show how it was not connected to God or the gospel in anyway

budaatum:
It would be like refusing to learn from fictional stories of the tortoise and the hare which is dumb since stories are told to teach lots of things.

The issues tend to start when you are told to believe the tortoise and the hare are real and the stories really happened. That has negative impact on the mind, as research will introduce doubt, which may discredit the the Jesus stories and be a bar to learning from them.

lmao do you think kids are that dumb to think hens talk, after all tortoise and hare real, real animals 😁

But "Negative impact" hmmm 🤔 but they can choose to believe research that shows he is real or choose not to, after all I don't see anyone doing a research to prove or disprove the existence of a talking tortoise 😂😂😂

LordReed:
An orphan will have to have morality taught to them by some means usually another person. Not sure why you think that is something remarkable.

Again I have evidence for presidents or any other human in a job you want to use as analogy, I don't have evidence for your god. Analogies are not evidence.

Morality must change because human society changes. Even religious dictates change.

Nothing in evidence points to any god starting anything and especially not morality.

You are the one living in the illusion that your morality is determined by a god. You are certainly welcome to live in that illusion but the reality is even right before your eyes morality is being determined by the humans all around you. At some point most societies thought slavery was morally acceptable but now we no longer see it that way. It wasn't any god that instituted slavery nor was it any god that ended it.

The joke is on you who thinks a god is directing morals from anywhere.

I didn't give you analogies as evidence but to help your understanding. You have evidence of what you believe in, those who believe in God have their evidences. Now does that mean you're right and they are wrong?

Morality doesn't have to change because "society" changes. What exactly is changing? Definitely not the basis of a society, except one changes what makes up a society and keeps people together.

The terms of morality might improve to address more issues to help those with weaker understanding address new challenging tasks.

Be kind to your neighbor that's morality, right. The means of kindness might change or improve but that doesn't change the kindness. You can go about it how ever way you wish, even ignore whatever evidences have been shown you all through your life.

But then to you is it moral to laugh at what another believes?

Of it isn't then you are wrong and immoral to laugh at others but if it is then you are a joke as well. 😊

jaephoenix:
Actually youre right to an extent. Christianity is a mental illness which should be eradicated. It makes some people susceptible to delusions of grandeur, persecutions, audio visual hallucinations etc

and in what way those that "illness" affect your life

jaephoenix:
Okay. Lets me its wrong, what are you trying to prove

trying to explain a portrait to the blind would be easier if by now you still lack understanding of what you have read

Hmm how pathetic its like one who can move on their own two feet saying they would help the one who moves with a wheelchair by removing the wheelchair without healing them. So if the wheelchair doesn't hurt anyone why remove it?

jaephoenix:
They need help because its the promise of a punishment that is preventing them from sining

and what would that help be?

Get them to do what is wrong and not care who suffers for it

jaephoenix:
Youre just talking gibberish. What father are you talking about?

the very first Father of all

Here's a question if Jesus wasn't real and never existed and was a made up fantasy, are his teachings and words so evil that they shouldn't be taught heard nor practiced.

And if people decided to follow this "fictional" character and his teachings and do good with their lives. Why hate them, or him or attempt to stop them?

Its like being disturbed and afraid of a fictional cartoon character that says do right or you will be punished. With all your logic does that make sense to you.

jaephoenix:
You have altered your Topic. But even at that, it is still insinuating atheism is a get out of jail card for sin

didn't alter it, just responded to queries and discuss

And lol, atheism can never be a "get out of jail card for sin" because no one can escape un-repented wickedness

jaephoenix:
Lol. And I thought I was discoursing with a cerebral guy.
1. Which historians said Jesus existed? The only record of his existence were from Christian scholars who had no evidence.
2. And even if he existed, there was no evidence he died and resurrected. No such events exist in world history

even if Jesus is fictional are his so called teachings evil and shouldn't be practiced?

LordReed:
I have evidence parents exist, I don't have evidence that a god or gods of any kind exist. When you can show me a god that interacts on the level of parents then I will listen to what that god has to say about morality.

Besides all morality is human determined, no god came from anywhere to give it to us, we developed it. We teach it to our children. Morality will always be in development and will always change.

I wonder what an orphan child would say...

the problem with showing you is the clause, without holiness it is impossible to see God, the pure in heart are blessed to see God. Are you qualified to see Him, that should be your thought.

You should think if a president that does exist in flesh is hard to see, how much a God.

Asking for God that interacts as your earthly parents is like asking for a president that will interact with you like a lover. Not impossible but still the odds. If you don't see the problem in your request you can as well as ask for the sun to rise in your room.

Morality doesn't change, good is good, good will not become evil. Good is good, because it is not selfish nor self serving. Now the only kind of fake morality that changes is the king that caters to those in power who's needs are ever changing and never satisfied. To those whom been pleased is what is good irrespective of how it affects others or life or the earth.

We teach our children what has been taught to us, and no matter how far you wish to dig, it all begins with God no matter what name He is called in different religions or culture.

You can live in the illusion that morality is human determined but wake up the reality that humans would burn banks because of a lit displeasure or police stations or fuel stations. Question is, where did that source of morality you claimed human possess go. Did the very originators of so called morality let go of it and becomes animals.

You amuse me, you look at men and believe they are the source of morality 😂😂😂😂

jaephoenix:
Exactly. Theists are afraid to explain their nonsense

are they? Or you are afraid to accept the answers and explanations they give you.

jaephoenix:
Whether he agrees or not is irrelevant.
Is what I wrote there a lie?

even if it is a lie would you admit it or remove it

Kobojunkie:
I don't hold brief for any individual or man here abeg! I simply profess that which is the Truth of God alone.

Jesus Christ never sent any man out to police the rights and thoughts of another man in His name. The New Covenant is a contract that the individual signs with God promising to obey God no matter what, and the Covenant does not place any man over the mind or lives of other men. The atrocities committed in the past by those who claim by mouth to be of Jesus Christ —the churches of men in this world— have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus Christ. Not a single one of the almost 100 commandments(and teachings) contained in that agreement/contract gives any man the right to speak politically or legally against His fellow man using the name of Jesus Christ, yet look around and you see those of the religion of Christianity doing exactly that, why? Because they are antiChrist, not of Him.

jaephoenix have you heard

LordReed:
Your choice of using children as an analogy is just wrong. You cannot use people who have no understanding of life as an example of the actions of moral agents ie children don't know enough yet. The goal of any parent should be to educate their child so that they can become agents of moral good. It won't matter what you believe if you are an agent of moral good. So to answer your question, being an atheist doesn't give one an excuse to be wicked.

You said children don't know enough but we who claim to be adults know enough? Someone asks about the source of morals as if a child could develop such in isolation.

so why is it wrong to compare us to children in the face of vast knowledge of the earth, even in the face of history not to mention God Almighty and yet we who are but mere infants would claim to be the origin of morals denying the existence of a Father, a God above us and before us.

Do we know enough of this world to claim there is no God or judgement after death. Or claim we are the only existence and after death is nothing. Even with limitation knowledge the arrogance to attempt to explain away supernatural or things beyond human understanding just to deny the fact that there is a God.

Children is the best analogy to show how arrogant adults can be in the face of God.

You said the goal of a parent is to educate, does it then sound wrong to say God as a Father of men, strove to educate them?

And yes being an atheists is not an excuse to be wicked in anyway.

Kobojunkie:
2. I don't think at that point where I gained access into the Kingdom of God that there was any Holy spirit in the picture. Jesus Christ never mentioned a Holy Spirit in the context of John 3 vs 1 - 8 so it always upsets me when so-called Christians automatically assume being born of spirit is about the Holy spirit. It couldn't though since instead what Jesus Christ said is that one is able to gain access into the Kingdom of God via either of two gates, the Broad gate which leads to destruction(Hellfire) at the end, or the Narrow gate which leads to true life(Heaven) at its end - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 & Luke 13 vs 22 -30. This means that all those who will end up in Hellfire will all also be born-again. Surely, they couldn't have been born of the Holy Spirit only to have an end in Hell - how can the Holy Spirit end up in Hellfire?

3. Yeah, I started on a path of obedience BEFORE I became born-again. So, when people say they somehow need the Holy Spirit to come to hold their hand before they can then obey God, I know for sure that those folks are lying.

only one gate and way leads to the kingdom of God, because there are two roads doesn't mean they lead to the same place, one leads to God the other leads to hell. So did you mean to write two roads to enter the after life?

Jashub:
Please how does setting a paper bag on fire have any link to moral standards. Please answer

very well fine
A child doesn't know the value of what he is about to burn or is burning, so obviously there isn't a feeling of having done wrong in anyway. In fact such child would feel they are right to do whatever they wanted because they could do it, and justify doing it. That in no way makes it right

But an adult, or using your words, one of higher standard and understanding, who knows the value of those papers would know that that child has done wrong.

If God sets a standard and rule that values life is because he knows the value of it. The child like those sinners, did whatever they did out of their own understanding, pleasure or desire.

Morality cannot originate from an ignorant mind, is has to come from higher intelligent and one with high understanding and values.

The way that child sees that bag of paper and the way an adult sees it will always be different even though they are both living beings

jaephoenix:
Who is that Father

everyone of His child knows Him

jaephoenix:
So they refuse to do wrong because of god, not morals or conscience?

do they need help because they believe that if they do wrong they will be punished or they need help because they believe in doing the very good you claim to do?

jaephoenix:
Is there a moral point to this action

isn't there?
A child desire to set something on fire

I will ask you again is it right for the child to burn millions worth of hard currency that could be use for many things

jaephoenix:
I do.
You said atheists choose to be so so they can sin to their fill.
And apart from your topic sentence, you didn't explain why. You just veered off

I never said nor did that

Jashub:
Wrong analogy as usual .Try something else . And please stick to the issue of morality. Because the paper bag stuff doesn't correlate with the discussion on the origins of any kind of morality out there

oh but it does doesn't it or are you afraid to answer

You are afraid of what your true answer would mean

Jashub:
You're mistaking conscience for freewill

no I am not

jaephoenix:
He glibly forgot religious people have killed more people than atheists, from Hitler, Putin. From movements like the Crusade, Huguenots wars, Witch Trials, Jihads etc
Theists have murdered billions while quoting their respective favorite story books. But OP doesn't wanna know that. Look at the most criminal countries from Nigeria, Brazil etc, what do they have in common? High levels of Christians. Now look at countries like Netherlands that have relatively more atheists and irreligious folks, less crimes. In fact, their jails are getting empty. You'll be forgiven to think Netherlands is more christian than Nigeria. An average Nigerian is a criminal. They would exploit and scam you at any point in time. Look at the cash crunch issue, everyone is using it as an opportunity to exploit the other. But on Fridays and Sundays, the whole mosques and churches are filled to the brim. Yet if you tell them you're an atheist, they'll call you the devil.
The nerve

. So in some way do you believe kobojunkie agrees with what you have written.

And kobojunkie is this what your post was about

FxMasterz:
At the first bolded, please note that the Holy Spirit is a very gentle Spirit. He doesn't take control over you as stated in your experience.
The Bible enjoins us to try all spirits. Not all spirits are of God but all satanic spirits would pretend to be Godly spirits.
If you've blasphemed God and His Holy Spirit during your days in Atheism, you're already possessed by a spirit of hell. You'll need deliverance to be free. The spirit you saw was already in you. It simply manifested to block your chances of completely turning yourself in to Christ. He still uses you today to turn away many people from the way of truth. It's that spirit that's responsible for the grievous heresies for which you've been known on this forum. I'm not saying this to attack your person. I'm only pointing you to the reality of your experience so that you can look inwards and make possible amends before it's too late.
This my position is further confirmed by the second bolded. You never even believed in Jesus before having that experience. A simple faith or belief in Christ is the first and most important thing that must happen before you can have any Godly experience whatsoever. Whatsoever you do in relation to God without faith is sin. How can anyone be possessed with the Holy Spirit while still in absolute unbelief? The Holy Spirit would first convince you, help you build faith, afterwards, other divine encounters would follow. Faith itself is the foundation. There's no other foundation for encounters with the Spirit of God except the foundation of faith in Christ Jesus.
Such a spirit that manifested without the foundation of faith in Christ Jesus is very questionable. And, judging from the fruits you bear, our fears are confirmed.
Seek deliverance my brother. May God have mercy on your soul. Many Atheists are possessed without knowing it. Some have already reached a stage of no return. The only option before them is eternal damnation.

I don't know kobojunkie and he may as well have his issues but didn't you read where he wrote that he obeyed and yielded to the commands of Christ. If so then how did you get the idea he was saying the holy spirit forcefully entered him

Did he say he had absolute unbelief, I have to reread what he wrote because I recall him writing that he was already on a path to seeking God and obeying his word




My question for you now is, who sent you to say this

jaephoenix:
What does the bolded mean

isn't that absolutely none of your business as the question wasn't directed to you 😳

Bacteriologist:
As an atheist I commit the number of crimes that I want and that is ZERO.

I commit the number of murders that I want which is ZERO.

I rape as much I want and that is ZERO.


Are Christians really saying that the only thing keeping them from committing atrocities and killing people is because an old book written by cattle rearers says so? That is scary.

if this is a honest question, the answer is no. They do it because God said so

I am an atheist who takes no moral instructions from evil and ignorant books but still is kind to as many people as possible because I have sympathy for my fellow human beings.

I understand that a society devoid of crime benefits me and everyone else therefore I won't commit crimes. I don't need a useless buybull or kooran to tell me that.

If you can't understand this as a religious person, please keep believing but understand that you need help.

they need help because they believe that if they do wrong they will be punished or they need help because they believe in doing the very good you claim to do?

jaephoenix:
How did the your ancestors and the early men learn morals?

from their fathers
And since all fathers were once sons, then even they learnt from the Father