₦airaland Forum

Bidam:
sIMPLE! No one prayed.

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.2 Chronicles 7:14.

A principle applicable to all of God's children wherever they are, including Syria.

nannymcphee:
Mark9:20-24

20 And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
21 And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
22 And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Mind you I know pastor Chris's interpretation of this & I can refer to the message.

Q1.but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us

&

Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Are these statements of a man with great faith ?

Q2.At the end, his son got Healed, was it as a result of his faith or God's mercy & love?

by the way, vooks just showed you a verse that buttress the mercy of God at work, but you ignored that & pulled up the one that buttresses faith!!

nobody is disputing that faith works, but what I'm saying is, it is God mercy/love & sovereignty that counts at all times

Bidam:
Yes dear, for instance you said But if you care to read to whole chapters of 2 kings from 20 where you quoted to 21.you will find out it was actually God's mercy for Hezekiah to die and not the other way round as you presuppose. Since we know God is omniscient, the evil his sons did after him(Hezekiah) was far worse than the amorites the Lord had destroyed before the Israelite. Scripture records Manasseh shedding innocent blood filling Jerusalem from one end to another and causing Judah to commit evil in the eyes of God. Even his next son Amon inherited this evil too.

So Hezekiah prayers stayed the hands of a merciful God, he stayed back 15 years instead of going home to be with the Lord, and what was the result of all the work he did? No legacy, his sons shattered it.

vooks:
Gombs please quit regurgitating Rhapsodies BS
Philippians 2:25-27 (ESV)
I have thought it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus my brother and fellow worker and fellow soldier, and your messenger and minister to my need, 26 for he has been longing for you all and has been distressed because you heard that he was ill. 27 Indeed he was ill, near to death. But God had mercy on him, and not only on him but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.

That's Paul's co-worker healed due to MERCY!

nannymcphee:
I believe there are so many roads that leads to Rome!! ie when faced with a challenge, a Christian has many option to tackle it.

He can pray, fast, worship, praise or a combination etc any can work depending on what he was led by the Holy Spirit to do at that time

BUT to say that one can get instant result as a result of one's great faith in all situations is something I will not agree to!!

There is nothing that suggest from the scriptures that Hezekiah got instant result because he had great faith(rather it was Gods mercy at work & the way he wanted things to go)

Where then is the instantness in "intercessory prayers"?

I asked earlier on, the bible shows that Hanah's family went up yearly & I'm sure(even though it wasn't stated) that she went to the temple to pray or at least have been praying year to year

was it just the recorded one that made God answer her prayers?

If yes, does it mean she didn't have faith in all her previous prayers?

As shown from scripture how men defied the laws of nature(Jesus walking on water, his ascension, Philips transportation, the sun being set back etc) I also believe the same can happen in the life of a Christian, YES his faith can make this happen but it's more of Gods mercy & Sovreignity!!

the foundation of this teaching lies in the diety of man & how he can get what he wants & when he wants it, so long as he has the God kind of faith

This teaching is dangerous because God has been left out of the picture, his will has been left out(there is a teaching out there that says praying according to the will of God is praying in the name of Jesus, what's the meaning of this? anything I ask in the name of Jesus with great faith will be granted?)

Hope you get the thrust of my post

nlMediator:
Setting the record straight, while claiming that I BOASTED? That's some straight record!

And please don't give more ammunition to those who question your reading comprehension skills. That I said I don't click on the videos you guys send here does not translate into the conclusion that I have not seen the videos nor support your assumption that I lack the courage to watch them. It may surprise you to know that these videos exist elsewhere. For insance, I watched the Leroy Thompson-Creflo Dollar money video through a lady in the US that wrote a book on Prosperity. So, don't waste your time making baseless and fruitless assumptions.

It seems to be a stock-in-trade of some of you to quickly make conjectures and then elevate those conjectures to fact, which you then feed to the unwary. Sad.

Still on assumptions, it may shock you that not all that watch the neagitve videos come out abandoning WOF or Hagin. Check this forum, for one.

vooks:
Thank you Trustman,
Believers must always be on guard against human traditions that void the Word of God. These are powerful forces and am learning Christian traditions are no different from conspiracy theories. Earlier this year I was kicked out of a Christian forum for questioning their conspiracy leanings such as moon-landings-were-faked and Obama-is-the-beast. They said I was divisive whereas all I sought was to interrogate the claims. They said their leader had done sufficient research on this and nothing was necessary

Here I have broached a few traditions and the reactions are out there;
1. Isaac sowed in famine
2. Paul rebuked Peter in front of leaders and not rank and file
3. Jesus cursed a tree for not having a tree out of season
4. Blood of an infant comes from the father not the mother

The problem with traditions just like in Jesus time,is that they are given the force of scriptures. Nobody will admit that they heard it, they all claim it was some super spiritual revelation that birthed these ideas.

Have a blessed Lord's Day

nlMediator:
Your initial question to him was to provide instances of instant harvest in the Bible. He provided one. Now you're shifting the goal post to God's sovereignty? Please, God's sovereignty has nothing to do with this discussion. All it will do is to take us on a different tangent. E.g., why limit the question of God's sovereignty to those who sowed and had faith? What of those that did not sow or did not have faith? Can't God in His sovereignty provide them with what they need or want, such as healing as He did for Hezekiah that asked?

The reality is that there are many cases of people getting instant answers to prayers, especially as they exercised their faith. The woman with the issue of blood? Blind Bartimeus? Five loaves and two fish? Wine at the wedding? Indeed, virtually every case of healing or miracle by Jesus was an instant response to a need or request.

Candour:
Actually there's one on this very thread and in the spirit of ''honestly trying to correct wrong and abusive practices", I took it as a mix up. If you doubt me, I could bring it up.

The point is that we all could make mistakes. I'll very much expect you to attack the veracity of her claims about your church of which she's a member than rubbish her integrity because of a 'blunder' for which she might have cogent explanations. I'm sure if it was one of our big 'mog', you would excuse it as a honest mistake which is the same way Hagin tried to explain away the wrongs of some of the mog in his book.

I believe you're on a quest to establish the truth based on Hagin's book? Pls let's focus on that and its related issues.

Cheers bro

nannymcphee:
L

Was the instant reply a function of his great faith or Gods sovereignty?

Candour:
Wao!! I guess nannymcphee can't win any which way then. When she appeared on WOF thread with her probing questions, I assumed she was CEC mole sent to scatter the thread hence my entrance to safely lead her out. Them some of you guys (Be specific) were so happy with her and even sort of reported BabaGnoni to her for further inquisition.

Now she's questioning your beliefs and she has suddenly become a suspicious person that you had to go-a-digging?

Can you honestly affirm that you've not made a wrong or incorrect assertion on NL since you joined?

Its funny sha

Well, a honest heart fears nothing. If indeed it was a mistake, surely nothing spoil irrespective of your assessment or mine.

Wish you a great evening bro

nannymcphee:
I have seen it, my apologies then

I was supposed to write 18yrs & not 8. Was born in the Catholic Church & left when I was eighteen.

if you like double check my words, it doesn't change who I'm & what I know(you can even double check this again)

Do the maths, you will know my age, so I'm not some kid

Where were we again, hezekiah care to explain

Candour:
Maybe its a mixup but you actually said it on the WOF thread.

Though I wonder how it invalidates all you said about CEC which are very verifiable or how it impacts the discussion going on here. I'm waiting for Gombs to link them

nannymcphee:
pls kindly, show me where I stated it that I left The Catholic Church 8yrs ago?

There must be a mixup somewhere

where it not for the fact that I don't have my baptismal cert & foundation school cert here, I would have uploaded it

eitherway, I don't need to prove how long I have been there or whether I'm truly a member.

Pls show me where I stated that

trustman:
[s]
Why ask about how long she's been in CE?
Are you wondering why she's not reasoning like you?
She ought to have been indoctrinated fully by now, yet you're still seeing some 'independent' views and that is worrying you. Abi? [/s]

nannymcphee:
[size=14pt]Oui Monsieur [/size]

can we continue now?

nannymcphee:
So all those who don't get instant harvest was because of little faith? Where then is the role of Gods sovereignty?

nannymcphee:
So you mean to tell me hezekiah got instant result to his prayer because of his faith?

trustman:
The difference is that he was more concise.
Yours was too winding and could easily blur the issues.
First, interpret the passage thoroughly. Then state any possible application.

nannymcphee:
Hezekiah getting an instant harvest was a function of his faith abi ?

what happened to Hannah, hasn't she been praying all those years? So the recorded act of her making a vow to God, that brought Samuel was the one that she had great faith abi?

When David prayed & fasted, yet his child died. Didn't he have strong faith to have a harvest?

Paul thorn nko(whatever that torn might have been). Didn't Paul have great faith to cause a change?

vooks:
Young negro, let me help you
1. Jesus cursed the tree because it was unfruitful despite the lush green foliage which is a sign of fruitfulness

2. There is nothing here like Jesus demanding fruit out of season, the tree had no fruit and could not have produced anything even when others were producing

3. If Jesus cursed an innocent fig, that would have been abuse of power no matter what lesson you scrape off the incidence

Go tell Oyaks to respect scriptures

trustman:
Here we go again!

vooks:
Did Jesus curse a tree for not having fruit outside the set time he created it to have fruit?

Looks like all of WOFers combined nobody has the cojones to answer this. This is the insincerity I been talking about, not owning up to your beliefs because you know they are damn absurd and can't stand scrutiny

vooks:
[s]He is a godess, a dyed-in-the-wool Christ Embassy Hooligan. He'd rather eat his wife's liver raw before contradicting Oyaks philosophy however stupid and wrong it is. If he is a pastor, it must be with Oyaks Gang

His most infamous claim is that he will live on earth as long as he wishes and Christ will have to prostrate himself before him and beg for permission to take him home. Another one is fetuses blood comes from the mother not the father. That's brainlessness magnified a trillion times. Thankfully am always here to keep him in check

Careful around the negro, he has wished me death in the most imaginative fashion, fatal car crash,suicide by poisoning...calling his BS gives him fits
[/s]

vooks:
Hooligan, plagiarist and now spammer