₦airaland Forum

trustman:
Gombs, over to you!

donnie:
@Gombs Mbaemeka
Hi Brothers, got an email I can reach you on? I'd like to share something with you.

owo2000:
Well expounded. I like it....

WinsomeX:
Enjoy your five minutes of glory; it's all you WoFaithers seek: vain glory and not God's.

WinsomeX:
The WoF crew have not denied their name. Why are you crying more than the bereaved? Is it because you are WoF too? A lesser version??

nannymcphee:
Mr librarian, what I mean by that is this, that you have great faith doesn't mean God will grant it to you, it's will & sovereignty is the deciding choice

Do you think David didn't have faith when he prayed that God should spare the life of his child? Yet the child still died

When God revealed to Paul that no life will be lost excerpt the properties in the ship, why didnt he change it, after all pastor has said when God reveals something, then you can change it, if he doesn't reveal it you can't change it

Bottom line:ITS GODS SOVERIEGNITY THAT COUNTS

nannymcphee:
Go & sit down, that's sacarsam!!

What am I apologizing for, if it was one why am I challenging him

Next time, learn to read between the lines

nannymcphee:
I'm sorry, it works all the time, I hereby join vooks in challenging you:

louisse:
Read more articles/devotionals by Kenneth E. Hagin and other powerful preachers at [url]spiritrestore.com[/url]

Image123:
Ridiculous! At least nanny is a member of a so called WoF church, she and the person she's discussing with attend the same church. petty points/items. You and all these WoF piano, WoF dance, WoF table. Jo tried helping you but you seem bent on wallowing in your mire as it were.

Trailblazer1:
dear gombs,
for silencing all the critics, wolves and enemies of the Faith and the cause of Christ on Nairaland. May you never lose your reward in the kingdom.

More Grace dear brother.

I'm not ashamed to call you a BROTHER.

WinsomeX:
trustman, DrummaBoy and BabaGnoni,

I humbly request a twenty-first item on your Word of Faith thread titled:

21. Word of Faith Despises God's Sovereignty.

The responses to nannymcphee's queries necessitates this. Please consider it.

nannymcphee:
If the above were true, then you wouldn't have said that it was Paul's prayer that made God have mercy on Epaphroditus. The scripture was silent on that.

We weren't told that Paul prayed for his healing neither were we told that there was a praying, all that was stated was God had mercy on him

Paul statement can be likened to a husband who says God had mercy on his wife & on him(saving him from the sorrow of becoming a widower)

Will it be right to the. Conclude that it was the husband prayer that worked?

If faith works all the time? Why didn't trophimus faith work or why didn't Paul use his own great faith to heal him, rather he left him sick?

mbaemeka:
Well, James said I should tell you and your teachers that if you ask God for anything [in this case wisdom] and then you conclude that if he wills it he would give it to you and if he doesn't he won't, that you are NOT walking in FAITH and will NOT receive anything from God. So miss me with your sovereignty talk again.

nannymcphee:
Oh lord, so it's now Paul's faith that caused God to heal epaphroditus?

wow


An excerpt from the verse:

But God had mercy on him, and not only on him but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow

if God had mercy on both of them, why the. Should you single out Paul's prayer?

Why rule out epaphroditus prayers?

are you telling me he too don't have faith?

What about trophimus that Paul left sick?

What happened Paul didn't have faith?

Just questioning your line of reasoning!!

nannymcphee:
Off course he had faith that why he cried unto God but that wasn't the reason God gave him 15yrs!! Did he ask for 15years?

Are you telling me it was his faith that moved God?

Bidam:
sIMPLE! No one prayed.

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.2 Chronicles 7:14.

A principle applicable to all of God's children wherever they are, including Syria.

nannymcphee:
Mark9:20-24

20 And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
21 And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
22 And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Mind you I know pastor Chris's interpretation of this & I can refer to the message.

Q1.but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us

&

Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Are these statements of a man with great faith ?

Q2.At the end, his son got Healed, was it as a result of his faith or God's mercy & love?

by the way, vooks just showed you a verse that buttress the mercy of God at work, but you ignored that & pulled up the one that buttresses faith!!

nobody is disputing that faith works, but what I'm saying is, it is God mercy/love & sovereignty that counts at all times

Bidam:
Yes dear, for instance you said But if you care to read to whole chapters of 2 kings from 20 where you quoted to 21.you will find out it was actually God's mercy for Hezekiah to die and not the other way round as you presuppose. Since we know God is omniscient, the evil his sons did after him(Hezekiah) was far worse than the amorites the Lord had destroyed before the Israelite. Scripture records Manasseh shedding innocent blood filling Jerusalem from one end to another and causing Judah to commit evil in the eyes of God. Even his next son Amon inherited this evil too.

So Hezekiah prayers stayed the hands of a merciful God, he stayed back 15 years instead of going home to be with the Lord, and what was the result of all the work he did? No legacy, his sons shattered it.

vooks:
Gombs please quit regurgitating Rhapsodies BS
Philippians 2:25-27 (ESV)
I have thought it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus my brother and fellow worker and fellow soldier, and your messenger and minister to my need, 26 for he has been longing for you all and has been distressed because you heard that he was ill. 27 Indeed he was ill, near to death. But God had mercy on him, and not only on him but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.

That's Paul's co-worker healed due to MERCY!

nannymcphee:
I believe there are so many roads that leads to Rome!! ie when faced with a challenge, a Christian has many option to tackle it.

He can pray, fast, worship, praise or a combination etc any can work depending on what he was led by the Holy Spirit to do at that time

BUT to say that one can get instant result as a result of one's great faith in all situations is something I will not agree to!!

There is nothing that suggest from the scriptures that Hezekiah got instant result because he had great faith(rather it was Gods mercy at work & the way he wanted things to go)

Where then is the instantness in "intercessory prayers"?

I asked earlier on, the bible shows that Hanah's family went up yearly & I'm sure(even though it wasn't stated) that she went to the temple to pray or at least have been praying year to year

was it just the recorded one that made God answer her prayers?

If yes, does it mean she didn't have faith in all her previous prayers?

As shown from scripture how men defied the laws of nature(Jesus walking on water, his ascension, Philips transportation, the sun being set back etc) I also believe the same can happen in the life of a Christian, YES his faith can make this happen but it's more of Gods mercy & Sovreignity!!

the foundation of this teaching lies in the diety of man & how he can get what he wants & when he wants it, so long as he has the God kind of faith

This teaching is dangerous because God has been left out of the picture, his will has been left out(there is a teaching out there that says praying according to the will of God is praying in the name of Jesus, what's the meaning of this? anything I ask in the name of Jesus with great faith will be granted?)

Hope you get the thrust of my post

nlMediator:
Setting the record straight, while claiming that I BOASTED? That's some straight record!

And please don't give more ammunition to those who question your reading comprehension skills. That I said I don't click on the videos you guys send here does not translate into the conclusion that I have not seen the videos nor support your assumption that I lack the courage to watch them. It may surprise you to know that these videos exist elsewhere. For insance, I watched the Leroy Thompson-Creflo Dollar money video through a lady in the US that wrote a book on Prosperity. So, don't waste your time making baseless and fruitless assumptions.

It seems to be a stock-in-trade of some of you to quickly make conjectures and then elevate those conjectures to fact, which you then feed to the unwary. Sad.

Still on assumptions, it may shock you that not all that watch the neagitve videos come out abandoning WOF or Hagin. Check this forum, for one.

vooks:
Thank you Trustman,
Believers must always be on guard against human traditions that void the Word of God. These are powerful forces and am learning Christian traditions are no different from conspiracy theories. Earlier this year I was kicked out of a Christian forum for questioning their conspiracy leanings such as moon-landings-were-faked and Obama-is-the-beast. They said I was divisive whereas all I sought was to interrogate the claims. They said their leader had done sufficient research on this and nothing was necessary

Here I have broached a few traditions and the reactions are out there;
1. Isaac sowed in famine
2. Paul rebuked Peter in front of leaders and not rank and file
3. Jesus cursed a tree for not having a tree out of season
4. Blood of an infant comes from the father not the mother

The problem with traditions just like in Jesus time,is that they are given the force of scriptures. Nobody will admit that they heard it, they all claim it was some super spiritual revelation that birthed these ideas.

Have a blessed Lord's Day

nlMediator:
Your initial question to him was to provide instances of instant harvest in the Bible. He provided one. Now you're shifting the goal post to God's sovereignty? Please, God's sovereignty has nothing to do with this discussion. All it will do is to take us on a different tangent. E.g., why limit the question of God's sovereignty to those who sowed and had faith? What of those that did not sow or did not have faith? Can't God in His sovereignty provide them with what they need or want, such as healing as He did for Hezekiah that asked?

The reality is that there are many cases of people getting instant answers to prayers, especially as they exercised their faith. The woman with the issue of blood? Blind Bartimeus? Five loaves and two fish? Wine at the wedding? Indeed, virtually every case of healing or miracle by Jesus was an instant response to a need or request.

Candour:
Actually there's one on this very thread and in the spirit of ''honestly trying to correct wrong and abusive practices", I took it as a mix up. If you doubt me, I could bring it up.

The point is that we all could make mistakes. I'll very much expect you to attack the veracity of her claims about your church of which she's a member than rubbish her integrity because of a 'blunder' for which she might have cogent explanations. I'm sure if it was one of our big 'mog', you would excuse it as a honest mistake which is the same way Hagin tried to explain away the wrongs of some of the mog in his book.

I believe you're on a quest to establish the truth based on Hagin's book? Pls let's focus on that and its related issues.

Cheers bro

nannymcphee:
L

Was the instant reply a function of his great faith or Gods sovereignty?