mrpataki,

I think hafees has a point there (ignoring the pseudo-insults).

Why Christians only?  Why not all Nigerians?  Why do we constantly feel the need to segregate ourseleves from the rest of Nigeria?  Christians are not the only people that constitute the whole of the very nation we're praying for, you know.  It is statements like this that provoke the non-christians (Muslims especially) among us, thereby leading to a further disunity among us, and subsequently, the ever increasing backwardness of Nigeria.

We Christians should stop monopolizing God.  He is not our slave.  Christians, Muslims, believe in God.  We only see the same things from diferent perspectives.  I believe He is there for everyone, and everyone experiences Him in different ways.  It is only those that do not experience Him at all that become atheists.

Just as we find certain things ridiculous about Islam, Muslims also find certain things ridiculous about Christianity.  But that does not mean neither worships the true God.  Just as Christians pray and their prayers get answered, Muslims too pray and get answers.

Until we start seeing ourselves as ONE, regardless of religion, tribe, colour, etc, Nigeria will still remain the same, no matter how hard we pray.

@babyosisi, I really do shout a BIG AMEN to your prayers, but I guess you know God considers certain things before answering prayers; and in this case, I just highlighted one of them.  I'm quite sure you do not mean it the way I've made it to seem, but I just felt the need to point out the consequence of that statement (the title of this thread). No spite intended at all. As a matter of fact, I really do appreciate the fact that you created a thread like this. Nigeria really needs prayers indeed. My concern however, is that the title of this thread is antithetical to the very purpose of the thread itself, as well as the desires of the result that we expect from it.

God bless Nigeria.  God bless everyone.

Hello Gwaine, longest time!  Where have you been?


Hello Shahan, how are you today?

babyosisi:

was it you goodguy that mentioned the name GWAINE?

Na me o! Gwaine is simply wondeful. Welborn is indeed well born. I don't know if you know him.

Guys like m4malik, 4get_me, TayoD, TV01, Havila, mrpataki, davidylan are also great!

Then the almighty ladies like you, mlks_baby, Syrup, GL, and of course, Shahan are simply inspiring.

I love reading from them all. All are very erudite posters!

God bless Nairaland!

Kai!  This man woman no wan gree sha!  Scores now = 2 -1 (you're leading ).

shahan:

And they don't really think I'm the most intelligent babe on Nairaland, they're just teasing me, lol.

No oo!  I'm not teasing you o!  I'm being realistic.  You know, seeing you describe yourself as a babe makes me laugh, as I've always had it in my head that you're a guy, which is somewhat difficult to let go. .

shahan:

@goodguy,

Okay, I hear you. Having taken revenge, here's my radical side now:

Let's see.

shahan:

Aiight!

Shoot!

shahan:

Lol, well. . . Seun is thanked, but he didn't quite force me. He sort of tickled a few of us and we simply shifted on our seats!  

Okay then.

shahan:

Haha!!
Nope. mlks_baby is my sis; m4malik is my bro!

Wonderful!  Really wonderful!  The Nairaland Trilogy!  m4malik is simply great.  I was just telling ope_emi how m4malik's post and yours are so full of great insights.  I was actually citing an example of your post where virtually each sentence made was backed up by Bible verses, and I was like "just like m4malik too" .  I enjoy reading his posts anytime.  How come all 3 of you share the same interest - Religion, that is?

shahan:

As for the other question, she has acquiesced that we keep you guys guessing at who's older - and she says to add m4malik as well!

I wonder when the revelation will be made.  I just hope I'm still active on Nairaland by then.

shahan:

No, never. They were muslims as well.

Oh, I see.  Current ardent Christians born and raised by former ardent (??) Muslims. Interesting!

shahan:

Nice guess, but not quite! Maybe one of these few days she'll set her lawyer books aside and come have some fun here with mouthfulls.

Okay o!  As my fellow Lagosians will say, "you dey put me for on top scale abi?" (meaning:  You're suspending my hopes, sort of).

shahan:

Unlike drop-out me!! I jumped half-way through to another discipline! See why they call me dummy??

Do you mind sharing your story?  And who da hell calls you a dummy?

shahan:

Yeah - and your d best!

*Clears throat*, *blushes*.

shahan:

Nope, I sometimes prefer the Yaba-patient type (in dark narrow corridors where I can't shout for help!!)   In hindsight. . . erm, perhaps Uselu in Edo State will be mmore like it!

Don't say I didn't warn you o!

shahan:

So I pass your exam, prof?? Oya, off I go to the lagoon!!

Lagoon ke?  Abeg, we still need you on Nairaland here o!

2 - 2 now!

Ermm, Madam Radiant, abeg chill.

Radiant:

I see. So, what's the whole point of starting this thread? To tell us Shahan is a girl huh? Thanks for that.

This thread is not intended to inform anyone of Shahan's gender.  It's indicated beside her username already.  However, the essence of this thread, which I haven't forced anyone to contribute to, is just to express my astonishment at the revelation of her gender.  I actually made it a topic because I didn't want the other thread to be derailed.  Period!

Radiant:


Guys, y'all never met clever girls in your life? What you guys on about here? Don't you have sisters, friends and above all, mothers? Why y'all acting as if you've never met smart and intelligent females?

I have met intelligent girls, not so many though (to be realistic).  My mother is intelligent, so is my sister, and a few others .  But that is not the issue.  We're talking Nairaland now.

Radiant:

Besides, what kind of girls have y'all met to think Shahan is simply the smartest?

On Nairaland, she is one of the very few ladies that actually make real sense to me.  I have never seen any lady analyse the scriptures the way she does (which IS the issue now).  There are actually ladies here that are well-versed in the scriptures here on Nairaland (babyosisi, syrup, GL, just to mention a few).  But I have not seen anyone (guys included, apart from a few like Gwaine, Welborn et al) with such indepths and insights on the scriptures, like Shahan.

Radiant:

And Nairaland guys are actually smarter and wiser than the chicks?

As much as I hate to say this, I must say it is the truth.  I have no statistics to prove that though, but from my observations, I think guys are generally smarter.  Feel free to bite!

Radiant:

lmao Y'all bunch of mediocre minded dudes get over yourselves please. This is rather shameful to read.

Please be calm.  No be fight, abeg.

Radiant:

Shahan, don't get me wrong. I'm not hating on you just had to say a few words to the guys. Best wishes and goodluck.

Okay, thanks for your post.  Best wishes and goodluck to you too.

Chei!  See the way she has dissected my post.  I go do my own back.

shahan:

Well, this really should not be a big deal as to form a thread; but hey - we can have fun sometimes, yes??

Sure!

shahan:

Yep, the truth's out at last - thanks to that spoilergreat babe, trini_girl!  

Oh yeah!  Thanks to her.  But wait o, I think Seun should be thanked for 'forcing' you to reveal it.

shahan:

I had tried so hard to not sound anything like her. . . alas!! But when she started laughing her head off on the phone, I was dug in my guts!

I see.

shahan:

In retrospect, she thought it would've been great to not have kept it well tucked away; but from the onset she made a silly mistake - she used our brother's username to enter Nairaland when she was playing a name game she liked so much.

So you mean the username, "mlks_baby" is for your brother?

shahan:

She threatened that if I didn't own up she would login and expose the game plan!

Interesting!

shahan:

Well, is this where I should clear my throat and blow some trumpet. . . lol?? Anyhow, we're proud of them, really. My dad had been converted two years but didn't let us know. It was when he took us to Australia for Christmas at the end of the second year, that my mum started asking questions. A year later she had given her life to Christ, and the rest of us were left wondering, "So, what now??" Above all, great parents they are - and they never pushed us into anything.

Your parents were atheists?  I really think they're great though!

shahan:

Erm. . . lol. I'll leave you to guess that one!
Maybe if the question was, "Who's more radical?" I'd be quick to say "yours truly!!"

I'm seriously thinking you're twins.  And yeah, I agree you're more radical.

shahan:

She's away to school studying Law.

Wonderful!  I envisage she's really going to be a great lawyer.

shahan:

You did a sensible thing!

Oh, I did?  _{*jumps into the lagoon*}

shahan:

Well, fortunately we had the gift of a very good background - good parents, good mentors, good boyfriends (which we have sadly lost), good education in prestigious universities, a good admin on Nairaland. . . and good pastors who take no nonsense from us.

Obviously!

shahan:

Tee-hee-hee!!. . . or is it bbrruuuhhaaahhhaaaahhhaaaaa!!!??

Stick to your Tee-hee-hee.  The other could make anyone mistake you for a Yaba patient. _{(just kidding)}

shahan:

PS. the name shahan is actually a male Armenian name meaning "profit-maker." But I guess even that could not have fooled the woman with the brain power

Ohh. . I see.  Thanks for adding to my knowledge.  _{(Using your own words now )}

ope_emi:

God, I have never seen a lady make this much impact on the religion section since mlks_baby last posted here as told to me by my friend goodguy.

Actually, after the "french leave" of mlks_baby, babyosisi came into the scene and shook the whole Religion section.  I was often confused about her gender, because I thought to myself that no straight man will have a username starting with "baby".  But then, her posts made me think, perhaps, it was a guy using his sister's/girlfriend's ID to post there.  I was surprised when I eventually found out she's a female.  

I was not as surprised as I am right now though, because unlike Shahan, babyosisi usually exhibited some feminine traits in her posts, sort of. It was kind of easier to guess she was a female.

Shahan a female?

I was just telling my friend, ope_emi just now that your posts are reminiscent of mlks_baby's posts, just after discovering that you are a female; and that no one would have guessed mlks_baby too was a female if not because she has always had her gender revealed right from the onset.  Shortly after, I saw where you posted that she is your sister.

Your parents must be really lucky to have daughters like you o!   So who's older?  You or mlks_baby?

BTW, why's she no longer active here on Nairaland?


P. S.  Sorry I had to create a topic on this.  I couldn't help it.

But omo, I'm still shocked o!   Even your posts on "Should Women Preach" is enough to make one surprised, considering the fact that you weren't misinterpreting the scriptures to suit your own agenda.

God bless you brother sister!

_{*murmuring to myself* shahan a female?}

Today's the Interactive session. I believe it has ended already. So guys that went for the interview,

* How was it?

* What and what did you do there?

* What sort of Interactive session was it?

* What kind of questions did they ask you?

Let's discuss, folks!

Today's the Interactive session. I believe it has ended already. So guys that went for the interview,

* How was it?

* What and what did you do there?

* What sort of Interactive session was it?

* What kind of questions did they ask you?

Let's discuss, folks!

TV01:

1. Are you saying marriage is lifelong whatever the issue?

A marriage based on proper foundation should be lifelong, no matter what happens. And when something eventually happens, it shouldn't be beyond resolution because it has God's consent.

TV01:

2. That if a spouse divorces because of adultery, such a one has committed a sin for divorcing, but is not responsible for the adultery of the offending partner if they remarry, as adultery had already been perpetrated? This implies that divorce itself is a sin.

When a spouse divorces because of adultery, he/she has not committed any sin for divorcing, because the basis of the divorce is on adultery perpetrated by the offending party [the adulterer(ess)]. Moreso, the spouse is not responsible for the adultery of the offending party if they remarry, as you rightly put it. This therefore makes the "divorcer" free of two sins.

TV01:

3. What then is the situation if adultery is committed, divorce ensues, but neither party remarries?

If the offending party is truly repentant, but the spouse is not willing to forgive, then the spouse may be to blame and likely to face to music -- not for the sin of divorce, nor for the sins of the offending party, but for the unwillingness to forgive (Matthew 6:14-15; Matthew 18:21-35; Mark 11:24-25; Ephesians 4:26,31-32; Hebrews 12:15). Remember Jesus said that the reason why Moses gave the law for divorce on the basis of adultery in Deut 24 was because of the hardness of the heart of men (Mark 10:5). But he further admonished them on the fact that a man and his wife are meant to be together forever (Mark 10:9), because once they are joined together by God, they are now ONE flesh (Mark 10:7-.

TV01:

Would you also disagree with a rendering of Matthew 5:32 in two parts? Being

1.Divorce for any reason except sexual immorality is a causing the divorced party to commit adultery if they remarry.

2. Remarriage by a divorced spouse is adultry, because as I have mentioned (and bourne out by both Romans & Corinthians 7, remarriage apart from death is always adultery.

I do not disagree. These are my point exactly!

God bless.

You know say Virus get degree sha. Probably, the viruses that attack your PC are minor/weak ones.

Hey dominobaby, I won't be able to come to Ibadan tomorrow for some reasons. I'll be coming later on. (I'll tell u why when u log on to messenger).

Gamine is right. AVG isn't good. It only detects viruses, it hardly cleans them. Avira is even worse. (Talking from personal experience).

@ Gamine:

Get Kaspersky Internet Security ( Trial Version here). It works perfectly well for me.

It's nice to take only the positive parts of things, you know.


Don't know if I will sign a prenup or not. It all depends on the type of lady she is.

Hey dominobaby (using the thick Igbo accent now )

How u dey? compliments of the season o! How's Ibadan doing you? Fine I guess.

Anyhow sha, take care.

mide2:

Zoosexuality (Bestiality or Zoophilia) is now in vogue, (it will soon be legalized to get married with them animals).

My sister, someone married a dog (abi na snake? cant really remember) in India, and it was celeberated like a normal wedding. This world is really turning into something else!

TV01:

Hmmm. First of all, please re-read what you wrote above. Ae you saying adultery is not a reason for divorce, but if you do it on that basis you haven't sinned? I can't see the reasoning behind that. Could I ask you to clarify or illustrate please  .

Maybe it's the application of our words here, I really don't know.

I guess you know that when a man divorces his wife on a good day, for any other reason(s) apart from adultery, he is making her liable to commit adultery because she's most likely to re-marry, even while the husband is still alive, which is not permissible by God (Matthew 19:9, Mark 10:11-12, Rom 7:2-3, I Cor 7:39).  Now, according to Matt 5:32, adultery is not a reason for divorce.  That is, it is not a cause for you to divorce your spouse.  You should not divorce because of adultery.  That passage is only making us realise that a man is not guilty of making his wife commit adultery, if he divorces her on that basis, because she is already committing the sin even before the divorce.  It does not imply that you're free to divorce your wife if she's an adulteress, but that if you choose to, then you won't be held responsible for her sins, that is, the sin will be on her alone.  That passage is very clear.  (Okay, maybe not too clear. )

TV01:

My point is that sexual immorality is a reason for divorce, as it absolves you from sin if the offending party remarries.

Since it absolves you of sin if the offending party remarries, then it isn't a reason for divorce.  It's more like an effect of divorce, on that basis. Let's look at it this way:  In the Matt 5 27-28, Jesus talked about lusting after a woman being equal to adultery.  So, are you saying now that if a man lusts after another woman in his mind, his wife has the right to divorce him?  I guess not.  Now, apply this to my own explanation and see how they match.

God bless.

trini_girl:

My question is then, how do you divorce in the eyes of God? How do you reverse a spiritual committment in God's sight?

If the marriage had God's hand in it in the first place, then there's nothing like divorce in God's dictionary, as far as that marriage is concerned. Unless, of course, "death do you part".

omogenaija, are you saying I'm not a saint?

missed u too sis.

Hey prettyH, I'm cool. Happy New Year to you too!

How r u?  Where have u been?  Hope all is well?

Anyway, Seun is very cool now.  I guess he really doesn't have as much time as before fo Nairaland anymore, now that he's into other stuffs.

Welcome Latoya.

enugu, no be fight, abeg, calm down.

Please note that I did not say God hates those that divorce, I only stated what was written in the scriptures - God hates the act of divorce.

I understand your situation, and I really do feel your pain.

That said, I'll have to agree with TV01 when he said, marriages based on the proper foundation (Christ and maturity in Him) should rarely have this problem; and I'm glad you acknowledge this.  But if at all they have, it shouldn't be beyond resolution, for as long as the foundation of the marriage is on Christ himself.

Obviously, and as you've also said yourself, you made a wrong decision by jumping into something you weren't prepared for, and didn't have God's consent.

The best you could do in your situation is what you already did.

God bless your efforts too.

Hey CimonJorr, nice to have you around bro.


Where the hell is nicetohave?!

Alright my sister.


God bless.

trini_girl:

However, to truly understand certain things in the Bible are said, it's best to study the root meaning of the word, and also the context of the entire passage of scripture.
Wouldn't you agree?

Of course I agree.  As stated earlier, trying to pinpoint this word [fornication] without examining the passage in question is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

trini_girl:

I read the article, and I have a question for you, exactly what does[b] "unmarried persons IN a marriage contract" [/b] mean.

I think what they were trying to say is married persons in a marriage contract, must have been a typo. Apart from that, there is no reference to pre marital sex with one partner as being fornication.

My aim here is just to make you realise that premarital sex = fornication.  I cannot possibly tell you what the writer means exactly, but from all I can gather, I think that phrase is referring to those that are unmarried, but are committed to each other (using your own words now).

I don't believe that was a typo.  If actually they meant to write "married", they would rather describe the act as "adultery" instead of "fornication".

trini_girl:

Extract from the same article:

The Complete Word Study Old Testament suggests three possible meanings for the Hebrew word "zanah." The first being fornication (pre-marital, illicit sex), the second being adultery (marital, illicit sex), and the third being idolatry (worship of a person or thing besides Yahweh).

context definition of FORNICATION: Illicit sex - which means unlawful, illegal or NON CONVENTIONAL sexual activity for example harlotry, incest, homosexuality etc etc etc.

Any sex before marriage is PRE marital sex
Any sex after marriage is POST matrimonial sex.

Does mean PRE marital sex with the one you're committed to and monogamous with is a SIN.

You're twisting things here.  The word is said to have three possible meanings.  Out of these three meanings, you have chosen to deal with just the first meaning, which even opposes your very stance on this issue.  Your PRE and POST marital sex explanation would only be valid if you had picked on the second meaning.

Look at it this way:

Fornication - PREmarital, illicit sex

Adultery - Marital, illicit sex

Note:  Illicit also means "disapproved of or not permitted for moral or ethical reasons".

That article does not imply in any way that pre-marital only has to do with do halotry.  The prefix 'PRE' is clear enough.  So long the sex is BEFORE marriage, then it's a sin. 

Moreso, going by your definition (funny how you agree with the dictionary this time), how come the same 'illicit' is also applicable to adultery?  If I understand you clearly, you mean so far a woman, though married, is also committed to someone else apart from her husband, then 'POSTmarital' sex is not a sin afterall?  Having sex with someone you're committed to isn't a sin, abi?  And no, she's not being polygamous, because she's married to just one man, but only committed to another.

trini_girl:

Nice article though, thanks.

You're welcome.

trini_girl:

Fornication in the old testament was defined as a metaphor for people of God going after false Gods (idolatry) - whoring around with false gods, when God is the husband of the church.

The new testament shows it as the physical equivalant to such behaviour - whoring around and having illicit sex with whosover will.

You're just making me repeat myself.  Agreed, your explanations are right, but Fornication in either the Hebrew or Greek can have and denote a wide range of definitions (not just those that you've been citing. . get that into your head! ). It can mean literal fornication (the type that occurs between two unmarrried people in a marriage contract), adultery, harlotry, incest, pedophilia, bestiality, or any other sexual restriction that God has placed for mankind to observe.

Note that literal fornication is distinguished from harlotry, incest, bestiality, and the others that you think are the only synonyms for fornication.

Omo, I tire for you o!

Sick Reverend!


hey trini_girl, I'm still awaiting your response.

TV01:

I am not in the habit of picking on individuals, so i won't. But could someone please explain to me why a man would be permanently seperated from his wife (i.e not circumstancially enforced or only temporarily) if there is not a problem of some sort?

I assume you're referring to Okotie here.  TayoD should be able to clear this up.  He probably knows more about Okotie than the rest of us here.  His submission here actually shows they are divorced, but not due to any conflicts.  I take back the instance I cited earlier.

TV01:

I see adultery as the only reason for divorce

If the basis of your conclusion is on Matt 5:32, I'm afraid that text states otherwise.  Things we need to note first in order to understand that scripture itself are:

* God hates divorce (Malachi 2:16), so it's logical to conclude that it is a sin.

* Adultery is a sin. (Exodus 20:14)

* Divorce based on the grounds of adultery makes one free of the two sins (the sin of divorce itself and the sin of making someone else commit adultery) that one would normally have been guilty of if the divorce was due to some other reasons.(Matthew 5:32)

From this, we can see that adultery is not a reason for divorce, at least, that's not what Jesus was saying.  But rather, if you divorce your spouse based on that ground, then you're free of the two sins listed above.

TV01:

The crux is forgiveness. As God constantly forgave adulterous Israel and Christ is constantly sanctifying his Church/Bride, divorce (again except in an extreme inverterate case) reeks of unforgiveness. It's why the decision to divorce if taken, does not mean you can re-marry. What you are saying is either you are not willing to forgive and happy to live alone, or this persons infidelity is so unyielding that its better for you to live alone.

Thoughts please brethren.

God bless

I agree.  God bless too.

May God help me.

If you catch your spouse cheating, work it out. I am not in support of a divorce under any circumstances.

They can stop living together, but should not divorce.

One may argue that seperation is the same thing as divorce, but Deut 24, and indeed, Jesus' reference in Matt 5:31 shows that divorce involves some processes (writing a bill of divorce and all that), as opposed to seperation, which may even be consentual without the need for any papers.  Actually, it should be consentual, but if the husband disagrees, probably due to the pleasure he gains from bashing and bruising his wife, the matter should be resolved in the court.  Even then, the issue of divorce should not come up.  I believe no lawyer has any right to divorce people (especially if he's a Christian), because Jesus said, ". . . let no man put asunder".

So when they're seperated, they are still husband and wife, legally, spiritually, and otherwise, but are not just living together.

An example is that of Chris Okotie and his wife.  They are not divorced, but they do not live together anymore, though they still get in touch with each very often.

Perhaps, this process may make the man come back to his senses as time goes on, and eventually, they can start living together peacefully once more as man and wife.

This is just what I think.  Anyone with something better??

trini_girl:

Others have attempted to use frivilous arguments about words and their meanings, stating that one word might have many meanings. But it worked to their disadvantage, since it only solidified my contention, that english words, can and have been manipulated to suit the needs of societal change. Hence the reason to study root meanings.

If this is your argument, then words like brave, counterfeit, girl, knight, neck, notorious, tell, etc should also be used and applied correctly in their original form, by you and you alone.  I hope you know that these words also metamorphosed into how you use them today, and I'm sure it will sound stupid to you if anyone tells you the word "quick" actually means "alive".  (Source)

But let's just say, for argument sake, that I agree with you here.

I'm actually wondering if you just smiled at the link I provided earlier, or whether you actually read through the content of that article.  Because if you did, I do not expect you to still be arguing here on whether premarital sex is fornication or not.

Now, I'm just going to highlight the keypoints in that article now:

[P. S.  Only those in square brackets are my personal addenda]

The word fornication comes from three separate words in the Bible, two from the Hebrew and one from the Greek [funny how you only pay attention to the greek language]. These words all share similar connotations. Each can mean literal fornication between two unmarried persons in a marriage contract; however, it can also signify adultery, whoredom, or an act of unfaithfulness on the part of Yahweh’s people.

The Complete Word Study Old Testament suggests three possible meanings for the Hebrew word "zanah." The first being fornication (pre-marital, illicit sex), the second being adultery (marital, illicit sex), and the third being idolatry (worship of a person or thing besides Yahweh).  [See how fornication is being synonymized with premarital sex in the Hebrew langauge?]

Again, we only find a broad definition for this Greek word, "porneia." Porneia is used 32 times in the New Testament and conveys many different definitions.  [You see, this is the one the Bible actually warns against, and not some "korinthiazomai"]

For example, the word fornication in Matthew 5:32 is often taken to denote an act of adultery, however an in-depth study will prove this understanding false, and confirm the real usage of this Greek word "porneia" in this particular passage, which is fornication, pre-material sex. [See again? Now, this is from the greek language that you so much believe in.]

Finally,

Trying to pinpoint this word [fornication] without examining the passage in question is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. [shey you dey hear?] Fornication in either the Hebrew or Greek can have and denote a wide range of definitions. It can mean literal fornication, adultery, harlotry, incest, pedophilia, bestiality, or any other sexual restriction that Yahweh has placed for mankind to observe.

Source:  http://www.yrm.org/qna-fornication.htm


Phew!