₦airaland Forum

Alwaystrue: Let me take you back on that. You accepted that IT IS TRUE 'WHATSOEVER' was written for our learning. I assume you are trying to quote this which totally negates what you stand for:

II Timothy 3:15-17
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation THROUGH FAITH which is in Christ Jesus.

16 ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works


If 'ALL SCRIPTURE' is the 'WHATEVER' you meant, I have just made it clear for all to see.

Absolutely, ALL SCRIPTURES includes WHATSOEVER is written BUT will it include that the laws of Moses STILL PART OF THAT "ALL" scriptures and if it does, then if fails in the face of this scriptures that doesn't apply to Christians.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
We know that whatever is in Moses' Teachings applies to everyone under their influence, and no one can say a thing. The whole world is brought under the judgment of God.

Romans 3:19

If you put "ALL SCRIPTURES" that are written together and the whatsoever PLUS this scriptures above, it means NOT ALL IS APPLICABLE TO US AS CHRISTIANS. We can learn from what is written, teach, quote etc BUT it doesn't apply to us as Christians.

The rest we can go on. That's the only thing needed to respond to.

@ OP,

Now my stand on 'fornication'.

Religion had defined fornication as sexxual activity between singles (unmarried) ONLY while adultery as sexxual act outside of marriage other than your spouse. That definition is FALSE! We will go into adultery as we go along but let's limit it to fornication as per the OP.

My stand from my study is, fornication is or includes a whole range of sexxual misconduct not connected to single\unmarried persons ONLY but includes married person(s) who engages in adultery, incest, idolatry, lust, harl.otry or who.re\wh.ore.monger(s), pros.titu.tion, best.iality, homo.sex.ual\lesbia.nism etc depending on the context as used in scriptures.

Now, a single\unmarried person CAN commit fornication depending on any of the above mentioned that he\she engages in BUT the whole definition and meaning of 'fornication' DOES NOT APPLY TO OR EXTEND TO two committed singles who are 'faithful' to one another, committed to marrying one another, love one another and intend to spend the rest of their lives with one another having sort approval from both parents even though they haven't gone through the 'ceremonial' or 'formalized' wedding yet.

CAUTION: Before it gets to this stage, ONE MUST BE ABSOLUTELY SURE THIS IS THE MAN OR THIS IS THE WOMAN FOR HIM\HER otherwise, such will be committing fornication by the act of being a who.re or a who.re.mon.ger. This is because, the act of truly being married is already concluded in their heart and the marriage is just a mere ceremony as the prove of what took place in their heart. I believe God who sees the heart already sees them as married just the ceremony to formalize them. Hence, I do not see these two people committing fornication as the definition and meanings of fornication from scriptures does not extend to them.

That's my stand and we can begin to expand on the above.

^ Go ahead bro.

frosbel: I don't agree with this point, but let me open a new article on this .

But before I do, can you confirm if you are referring to the 10 commandments or other ceremonial and dietary laws ?

There's nothing like the 10 commandments being special than the rest. They are all included in the what is called the law (singular) of Moses. The Bible doesn't call any ceremonial and some dietary etc. They are whole in one altogether. The people who received them never separated them or give preference to the 10 above the law. Please, go ahead and open another thread so we can deal with that as well.

^ Okay. That will be very good but I might respond slowly as in also responding here. You guys giving me lots of work to do today.

@ Yooguyz,

Thank you and I do appreciate you and your concern over me and the Grace of God on me. However, you also must look unto Jesus, who indeed is the author and FINISHER of our faith. Christ gave gifts to the church among whom are teachers, but every teacher like Apostle Paul is subject to examination. When I or anyone teach or say something, you also have responsibility to yourself and the faith you've accepted to examine 'carefully' what is taught\said. We do not encourage a spoon fed method kind of church practices going on in the institutionalized church today. Pray for me also, that I may finish this glorious race well.

@ Frosbel,

You're right with the word 'intentionally' because many sincere men do teach things out of error. We do not claim to know-it-all but like you said, we can truly 'reason' the scriptures and sort things out beyond shadow of doubt.

Yeah, good morning @ y'all.

First is a disclaimer:...this is a very sensitive topic and it is NOT to support immoralities within the body of Christ. It is to understand the scope of the subject matter. If you're a young Christians and don't understand what is said here, kindly take more time to study the subject matter or ask questions for further clarification.

2. I'm a FULL 100% New Testament teacher, believer & Christian. I have NOTHING to do with the law(s) of Moses GIVEN ONLY to the national Israel as their constitution. It doesn't apply to Christians. Romans 3:19, 2 Corinthians 3:6 & Romans 2:14. YES, it is very true that whatsoever is written is written for our learning BUT it doesn't apply to us, Christians. Therefore, when I teach we are not under the law of Moses, I'm consistent with what I teach in that regards.

3. I'm subject to my fellow Christians on this forum to checkmate me should I err in things I teach even though it has been proven many times that we cannot ALWAYS agree, not because the word of God is faulty but perhaps because of our understanding and\or interpretation. In that regards, I have always maintained that scriptures must interpret scriptures and we must seek meaning to context where necessary.

4. Many of the people here thinks I intend re-writing the Bible all again. No! That's not true. I do not seek to re-write the Bible but to correct errors and\or traditions held for many years and passed down to us from people we have looked unto. In the cause of this correction, I'm aware it will offend some religious people or interpretation. There's no problem about that, do not act against your heart if you're not comfortable with what I say or teach but rather, seek more diligent study yourself.

5. Having said the above, I will proceed to the core of the thread. We can also discuss any of the above side by side as the thread goes on peacefully.

okeyxyz: sorry guys, I'd not run away, Only tied down for now. I'd be back.

May you not be TIED down in Jesus name. I untie you NOW! ^ ....just joking bro. I woke up on a glorious morning.

Bidam: ok sir..sorry sir..lemme allow you to sleep..no point getting worked up..we are all brothers in Christ aren't we? Try not to forget that fact in a hurry..sleep well bro..

Thank you! Now, you are talking. God bless you sir. Allow me just 5 hours sleep now. I will be back with fresh heavenly revelation.

Bidam: hmmn..you really are puffed up..you call me religious? Wow that's a new one.

Call it puffed up, call it arrogant or whatever, it's your headache. I have heard people call me arrogant & heretic on this forum, it's nothing to me. This thread was created for me to answer for myself & I WILL SURELY ANSWER FOR MYSELF. You entered this thread like your religious brother Image123 and started talking about TITHE because you're too tithe & money conscious.

Instead of you to contribute something meaningful, you came talking trash. Do you know how & what I was gonna respond to what truthislight wrote? Again, stop trolling if there's nothing to say. Thank you.

Bidam: You are quoting the OT...according to our dear oga gosh..the OT has been done away with...why quote it for him.

Sharrap hypocrite! I thought you said you're done with this thread. Leave truthislight alone and I WILL ANSWER FOR MYSELF AND YES, THE OLD TESTAMENT LAW OF MOSES IS DONE AWAY WITH. Do you have problem with that?

Bidam: hmmmn God's standard except of cos TITHES..

Abeg go sidon joor. You too like money from tithe. You wan come carry your tithe mentality come pollution this thread ni.

@ Ihedinobi, did you see what I'm talking about? I know definitely before I wake up, this thread would have been polluted by 'some religious' people and here's an example.

@ Ihedinobi,

I should enter this thread by 12:30pm, Nigeria time today. I hope this place would not have been messed up by the time I come or before I wake up. I'm saying this because it's the same way 'some religious' people messed up the first thread we talked about this and it ended up without any reasonable outcome. Make I sleep small abeg.

Image123: gosh, beware of puffed up knowledge. This is the letter in zoom mode BTW.

Why do you open your mouth to talk when you don't have any meaningful thing to say? I have told you to stop this your troll around me please. Also, why do you always say I'm puffed up with knowledge if I know what I know & I have to explain it? Is there a restriction for you not to know also? Learn to keep shut if you have nothing to contribute, okay.

@ Ihedinobi,

I have to go to work now please. I will attend to you and this thread tomorrow when I wake up. Thanks & God bless you! In the meantime, get yourself Hebrew\Greek concordance & dictionary and do some study before tomorrow and we come back and fellowship together. Thanks

mumumugu: YOU LOVE WHO?


The face of nairaland gay. GOSHEN NO 1

Please, don't read meaning into my words, I love him, my brother in the love of Christ. Simple!

anukulapo: Abeg,no greek/hebrew debate for this thread o. I wan learn something.

*sits at a corner with a glass of water and my kjv*

You berrer go sleep and when you wake up, you will learn REALLL good and don't leave that your KJV that is confusing you you o because na that KJV dey do well past most times.

Also, Hebrew\Greek is the original language FROM which your KJV was translated from. Therefore, if KJV said something, it must mean what the Hebrew\Greek means. Come out of religion! There shall definitely be Hebrew\Greek concordance\dictioanry to get the meaning of word as used in all context. Lastly, fornication is a dangerous sin in the sight of God but what does it mean in the original language? And don't assume Hebrew\Greek will be wrong while your KJV will be right. I will be back tomorrow to get you out of religion.

mumumugu: your name na goshen?

@ Ihedinobi,

Interestingly interesting! I love you my dear brother Ihedinobi. You see, some of our folks here thinks they wanna slander me when I say something they do not understand. This is because religion had eaten deep into too many people. I believe (my thought though but I might be wrong though under assumption) that Alwaystrue felt he was exposed or defeated when we're discussing tithing\tithe and later turned to result to slandering by bringing up the past issue on fornication as discussed in the past.

The reason I said I love you is that, Alwaystrue should have done what you did - by opening a new thread so we can trash this subject out but decided to result in slandering. However, I thank you for opening this thread even though I know it's gonna consume my time but I will endeavour to stand by this thread. I have to go to work now in this part of the world where I reside but I promise to attend to this thread fully by tomorrow morning when I wake up, by God's grace.

^ Why do you ask? ^ Have you come to torment me again with your questions

^ I will be here sir ^ Thank you and good night

^ The answer to your question is NO, that is NOT fornication.


You will need to show us\me that fornication is sex.ual intercourse between 'unmarried people who are to marry each other'. I have given you the meaning of fornication and it doesn't extend to two people (male & female) who wants to marry themselves, committed to marrying themselves. That's what you're still not getting, you're extending the meaning. And please, feel free to quote me also.

@ Frosbel,

Well, you know me too well and I'm not after everything in skirt. You & I have spoken many times outside this forum. The truth remains the truth, it can hurt our human ideology as it were. If they don't understand what 'fornication' means, then it is their responsibility to go learn. There's too much of 'traditional' and 'churchianity' interpretation of scriptures. If I sound heretic, then people should do same study I took out time to do and then find out for themselves. Well all know the original Bible wasn't written in English; it from translated from Hebrew\Greek. It is religion that expanded the meaning of somethings. Go and do likewise, go study 'fornication' and maybe, they will end up calling you heretic also.

debosky: Why are we now discussing sexu-al sin on this thread? Let's focus on the topic at hand please.

It is disingenuous to bring issues discussed elsewhere to cast aspersions on a viewpoint here. I am not holding brief for Goshen360's views or anyone's for that matter, but do not conflate issues so people do not get confused.

If you want to challenge Goshen's views on other topics please do so on a separate thread.

Debo, if you noticed was the same thing someone did to me when I challenged Obadiah777's post and I know where all these things are coming from. I forgot the guy's name or I.D and he was on me and Frosbel then when we challenged Obadiah777 ended up drawing me back to the former thread where we talked about fornication. They suddenly turned tithe thread into sex.uality thread and wants to use it as a slander. The same thing they did at that Obadiah777's thread too. Well, I will defend what I said and if anyone doesn't understand what I understood, let them go do any study for themselves.

Alwaystrue: Indeed, Goshen your arrogance is really increasing. So you no longer need to learn yourself right?

I Corinthians 7:2
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.


Fornication is any sexual immorailty outside the bounds of marriage as seen in the scripture above.

You're in for something real good. I hope you will thank me and give me a good teaching offering after teaching you here. First, lemme tell you something, the Bible was NOT originally written in English. That's why I always go back to the original language to dig it out. You can't do more that that. Every word had their meanings in context. You need to be diligent to STUDY as Apostle Paul told Timothy. If you like, say I'm arrogant, yes, I'm arrogant in the word of God

Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. I Corinthians 7:2

Now, lift that word, fornication and do a word study, then apply its meaning back in the context and you will have a very clear understand of what that verse means, hence the Spirit of the word you often shout about will come alive in you. Here is what you have,

First, I opened the verse here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Cr&c=7&v=2&t=KJV#top

2. I opened the CONCORDANCE & DICTIONARY here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Cr&c=7&v=2&t=KJV#conc/2

3. I get the word meaning of fornication here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4202&t=KJV and what does it mean? It is the Greek word porneia and you also get the ROOT WORD or MEANING from porneuō. You have the resources with you, kindly do study yourself also.

1) illicit sexual intercourse
a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

2) metaph. the worship of idols
a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

Now, fornication has two meanings as you can see and NOTHING more than that in every scriptures. By inference, in the context of I Corinthians 7:2, we know it's talking about the FIRST definition from the word study and it simply says it means ILLICIT SEX.UAL INTERCOURSE. Now, it went further to break down this 'illicit se.xual intercourse', take ALL those definitions and apply back to the context of I Corinthians 7:2, you have what that verse says here:

Nevertheless, to avoid a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18. c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12 let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

You can even SEE CLEARLY from our word study, bestiality is also FORNICATION and you've been ranting all over this thread that bestiality wasn't mentioned in the New Testament. Again, it is you religious & law of Moses keeping people that EXPANDED the meaning of fornication. What I found out is what I said and that's what the Greek means. I don't go beyond that. STUDY to show yourself approved unto God! People might see me as heretic but I don't care, many times, we have ONLY believed what tradition had handed down to us and didn't bother to examine them. The time has come to lay every traditional or church teachings to the lens of the word of God and examine them proper and that's what I made up my mind to do hence, I will be teachings men's tradition to God's people thinking I'm teaching the truth.

Leave Judaism ALONE for God sake. What is wrong with these people sef? God created everything in Genesis and said, behold it is VERY good. How can very good turn back to be an abomination? Leave the 'constitution' (the law of Moses) of the Jewish nation alone to them. If you don't understand scriptures, you better don't let God shut your mouth

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
We know that whatever is in Moses' Teachings applies to everyone under their influence, and no one can say a thing. The whole world is brought under the judgment of God.

Romans 3:19

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. Romans 6:14

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Romans 6:15

^ Them don dey put me sef for hot seat o ^ for the other thread. At least, we're all to check-mate ourselves. That's why I love this forum because it is not one man church that pastor go preach and other no fit talk or ask questions. I've been thinking about when God allow me to start my teaching ministry, I will always leave room for questions\answers to enable people better understand because you know, not everyone listening to you are on the same comprehension level. However, I've followed in particular on this forum and I think you're a good man. God bless you though.

^ I'm not fighting you and I cannot fight you. I was only saying, if I said anything based on my study and come out to say what I said, then it is your responsibility to examine whether what I said like the Bereans if it is true or not. If it doesn't fit your maturity in Christian walk, then don't do it because what I don't consider sin, another might consider it sin and if you act against your faith\heart, then it becomes sin for you. That's the whole point of it.

Alwaystrue: @Goshen,
Thanks for responding.
Do you know what slander means?
You have just said that quoting you on what you yourself said is now slander. Why ask on another thread, when all issues are being sorted here already whether we accept it not. Afterll discusions on the other thread about Abrham was brought in here so we are still discussing God's word.

Various posters asked you to confirm if what you posted was correct and you answered that in not so many words that:

There is nothing wrong in two consenting unmarried adults having se.xual intercourse together especially if they are commuted to marry and that is not fornication

Now I simply asked any of your supporters to take the bull by the horn and affirm if it's right or wrong biblically but I have got just one diplomatic evasive answer so far.
It seems no one wants to touch this and they have better knowledge in giving than this.

Okay, I think you wanna learn now. What do you understand by the word 'fornication'? Let's start from there.

Alwaystrue: On bestiality you said you don't and the bible does not support bestiality and all you showed to back this up was 'sins as these'. And I simply said it was not stated there so why the quote?
A lot hinges on our understsnding of scripture so if simple questions like this cannot generate required answers then what are we talking about? If your supporters cannot engage you issues like this, then it seems you do all the talking while they like whether or not its correct. This is for our learning and not fight, we sharpen each other in love and not cults or cliques.

Okay good, it wasn't clearly stated there. Now, answer this question, did the Apostle named ALL the SINS in the world in those 3 verses I quoted?

Bidam: like i said earlier and still say now your expositions lacks rhema..all na wash..you quote Jesus statements saying He mean't the disciples go from house to house and whateva they give them is their wage[b](from that context is it NOT under the law you are quoting?)[/b]...remember they were first called christians in Acts of the apostles..Paul established churches and there was koinonia..so the ministers or elders should eat from the gospel and NOT go to people house to collect alms like beggers. Lemme give you another scripture to butress the point further since you are dull of hearing: 1 tim 5:17 says that those church leaders "who do their work well should be paid well"(NLT), and NOT just with an amount enough to live on. The GNT says that he is "worthy of receiving double pay"...this applies to ministers who work HARD AT PREACHING AND TEACHING.

Bidam: No queshion should be directed to me pls..i think am done talking here..i will merely observe..even the Op has made up his mind..the cycle keeps repeating itself with the same old hypocritical folks and useless questions..u can refer to other threads to understand my meanings..to your tents o israel.

Are you serious? As in seriously?.....no question should be directed at you? When you take the words of Christ and trying to force 'tithe' into that meaning.....you and Image123 & Alwaystrue. You know say me I no dey fear to mention names, I go even highlight the names calling in RED so those concerned will say and read as I did above .

You're always reading yet not learning anything. Didn't you read when I said Christ came to fulfill the law AND AT THE SAME TIME LAYING FOUNDATION FOR THE NEW TESTAMENT THAT WILL TAKE EFFECT AFTER HIS DEATH....by appointing disciples to carry on, teaching them and empowering them? Did you read that? That was all under the Old Testament in Matthew to John. Since you agreed they were first called 'Christians' in Acts, then why can't you believe what I'm teaching that Christianity started in Acts of Apostle. Christianity is the religion of Christ's teachings that started AFTER his death. Judaism is the religion of the law that ENDED at the cross of Christ. The Cross is the great divider.

You've been distorting the truth of God's word by forcing 'tithe' into 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 and NO where was tithe mentioned there. And for your information, nobody, I mean none of us anti-tithers ever said the church ministers should not be supported - that is very clear from scriptures but is it by collecting TEN PERCENT OF PEOPLE'S INCOME? That's what we challenge because it is nowhere found in the New Testament. If you're needed to answer to whatever you say in error, we will definitely call on you or direct questions at you, in your name or your I.D.

Thank you & God bless you.

@ Alwaystrue,

Thanks for the slandering. However, lemme make it clear from henceforth, if you don't understand whatever I say or said in the past, I will appreciate you open a thread for me to answer or explain better or better still, give me room like you gave me in this thread to explain what I meant by "Given that..." as earlier said. You took my teachings out of context and slandered on it. Well, if you don't understand the word 'fornication' then you have a responsibility to yourself to study what it means and as used in every context. You people are doing the same thing in this case of tithe - expanding on what is said in scriptures. I do not appreciate when you take this discussion out of context and extend it to previous threads.

2. The scriptures I quoted simply and specifically mentioned 'fornication' in some translations and other translated to be 'se.xually immoral'. You people's problem is, studying takes a lot of digging and you must search it out. Again, if 'fornication' was simply translated as sex.ually immoral and the Greek\Hebrew meaning is 'illicit se.x' and mentioned in that verse I quoted, that is where it remains.

3. I also made it clear that the Apostle NEVER mentioned ALL the SINS in world. Is that too hard for you to understand or you're just out to slander. You are probably yet to understand what sin is. What someone calls sinful, another by his\her knowledge of God's word might not call it sinful. I hope you don't also take this statement out of context. Anything that is not of faith is sin among MANY definitions of sin. Therefore, if the New Testament doesn't mention 'bestiality', and I showed you if it is related to any of the sins mentioned then it fits into the 'others'. What then is it you don't understand?

4. I and many others here believes and as you rightly answered to my question in Acts 15, the it is the 'whole' of the law of Moses that is gone and we cannot just out pick tithe and lay hold on it. The law of Moses WAS NEVER WRITTEN TO THE CHURCH OF CHRIST and you must deal with that. IT WAS WRITTEN TO THE JEWS AND FOR THE JEWS ONLY. The New Testament took effect from Acts and I stand by that word BUT the foundation for the New Testament teachings were in Christ's teachings found in Matthew to John. Also, the whole law of Moses was a shadow and pointing to Christ. Now, that Christ, the reality and the substance had come and will come again, WE NO LONGER NEED THE LAW and I stand by that also.

5. In Christ dwells the FULLNESS of the Godhead bodily. No controversy! Come to the Grace and leave the laws of Moses alone because the Grace of Christ is sufficient for you. You're are yet to unloose the MANIFOLD blessings in the New Testament because you're mixing with the law of Moses. Again, they don't redefine each other, they are two poles apart. What you see in the law of Moses is shadows, what you see in Christ and the New testament is REALITY AND SUBSTANCE. I hereby challenge you to leave 'religious' interpretation of scriptures alone, take your bible STUDY, not reading SERIOUS and examine AGAIN everything you've being taught in the confinement of the 'church' and see if they are truth mixed with error. By doing that which I also did and still doing, you will prove yourself and your ministry.

Thank you.

^ Now your turn for hot seat ^ Everyone got their fair share right ?