₦airaland Forum

@ christemmbassey,

Thanks for the conclusion. I will follow up today, hopefully and allow others too to follow up. God bless you.

Image123: he has said it yet again. Oh God, deliver us from evils this time in Jesus name.

Becoming a troll on threads and saying nothing reasonable is irritating. Keep shut if you are on phone until you have something to say.

^ ^ Please continue and finish your OP man of God. I will follow up to expand on it when you're done. Many Christians are very quick to speak against you even when you have not concluded yet and they don't even understand what it means that "Abraham is the father of them that are of faith". I hope I do have time today so I will expand the truth\revelation you're sharing. Thank you man of God.

obadiah777: WELL ITS NOT A SIN. I THINK IT IS RIGHT. 1 TIMOTHY 5 VS 17 The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.

I think this scriptures makes perfect sense.....following the line of 'double honour' NOT some folk talking about clap OFFERINGS. I don't know when clap became OFFERINGS.

james2man: Can you explain sir how can one test the spirits? I don't understand you.

To test the spirit, you must know and be grounded in the word - one scripture leading to giving MUST not contradict each other PLUS be led by God's Spirit. That's where the blessings comes to be. I know your spirit is quite against what the man was doing but ONLY God can reward you or not but God I know doesn't reward grumble giving.

tobechi74: I hav said dis b4, neva give to d church because you expect triple in return. GOD IS NOT A MONEYDOUBLER.when you donate, do it willingly,voluntarily. Expect nothing in return.

GOD BLESS YOU ETERNALLY AND YOUR GENERATION. The Nigeria Church need to know and understand that when Christ summarized the law of Moses in LOVE. Everything a New Testament believer does MUST flow out FROM THAT FOUNDATION OF LOVE. We don't give because we want to be blessed, we give because we're already blessed and that God first loved us and so he gave his only begotten Son. We need to begin to stand against all these false teachings. This is the generation of they that seek the Lord and worship in spirit and in TRUTH. We can't continue to keep this quiet no more.

@ Brother Frosbel,

Please, I need you to find that video where someone (a man) pretended to give testimony and exposed that false teacher woman you once posted. I need you to post it here please. Thank you.

oiseworld: Don't say the God you know, like uve met God one on one.

The average human been is greedy and empty, Thi king he knows all but actually knows nothing. He needs to be taught. We all came into this world empty and we learnt everything we know. Either by force, coercion or by any other means. Allow others to grow as u have grown.

When I say the God I know, doesn't mean I have seen or met God one on one. You should understand it to mean THROUGH HIS WORD. Again, the God I know doesn't force or coerce his children into giving. Even Adam was left to his will. God will ONLY lay it plain and make you see reasons for sacrifice and the rest of it.

Now, we're talking about giving; perhaps sacrificial giving. How do you make a giving sacrificial when you force it out of people? That's against the scriptural context of sacrificial giving. That's taking advantage of God's people in the office of a prophet or Apostle, whatever their title is. We do not have such practice among the church of God in the early Christians. You people should begin to stand against all these false practices in the church of God and say the truth irrespective on whose toes we step on.

Glory to God. You're stepping forward and also CROSS OVER TO THIS OTHER SIDE. But make sure you burn down all those shrines and whatever juju you have there o.

james2man: Pastor Kun...You're very correct, infact the prophet told the congregation to give out all in their purse(empty their purse i mean MONEY) infact i'm also part of them oo, i empty my wallet yesterday because i dont want to be disobedient. God forgive me, he even manipulated the bible yesterday saying SACRIFICE is greater, but according to the bible LORD does not delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices but obeying the LORD?

"Obedience is Better Than Sacrifice."

I think one need to be careful with churches we attend this days,because it seems some clergy are trained to extract money from congregation.

Sorry to say this, you acted foolishly if you joined to empty yourself. No insult meant please BUT God I know doesn't blessed coerced giving, only cheerful giving. You have options then, walk out of the service, NEVER TO RETURN TO THAT CHURCH. 2, hold or control yourself & lastly, pretend to give testimony and when you have the microphone, tell them what they are doing is wrong according to scripture.

Will comment in details later. First, sorry for the assault.

Bidam: Rom 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer [/b]your bodies as living sacrifices , holy and pleasing to God — this is your spiritual act of worship

PSA 47:1 [b]Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy.

Want more scriptures?

Pastor Kun: It's a rub my back I rub your back kind of thing, these guest speakers expect to be paid honorarium for their performance. The more money they can milk from the congregation, the higher their honorarium. That's why they go to all extents telling lies and twisting scriptures just to manipulate believers into giving more.

GOD BLESS YOU. WE HAVE SO MUCH WORK TO DO INSIDE THE CHURCH THAN OUTSIDE.

Image123: sorry. Accept my condolences.

Seconded.

Bidam: Even in my personal devotion i clap and shout for joy when i get a revalation from God's word..so wetin dey dia.People give a

[size=15pt]clap offering[/size]

unto the Lord for a door of utterance God gives the clergy and NOT to the pastor.

The one that baffles me is the use of REVEREND. Can somebody help me out where in scriptures they get REVEREND from? Is that part of the five-fold ministry gifts?

alexleo: john 14;14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, i will do it.

Now i ask, is it anything you have asked in the name of Jesus that he did for you? Thats the mystery of God. If somebody says God is blessing him why do you doubt him by saying his storehouse hasn't overflowed as promised in Malachi?

It's quite simple my brother. If God has said that to the church, he will perform it to fullest. Not seeing the promise of Malachi as evidence is the testimony that God will not perform what he had not spoken except we want to make God a liar but like I said, I challenge you, look at the promise of Malachi again and see if it's coming to past in the lives of tithers.

musKeeto: lmao.. Smellyeggs..

musKee, NOBODY can match you in this gift to covert user I.Ds o. I hope you no go try my I.D one day o

masonkz: You still aren't making much sense. If something is greater than the other, doesn't that spell out that you should go for the greater one and nothing less?

You know & understand exactly what I'm saying. To appreciate or understand the 'greater than' Solomon, you need to know that Solomon. Whatever is learnt from that Solomon, then apply the 'greater than' IN CHRIST. We, Christians have an immeasurable wealth and blessings in Christ....the whole book of Ephesians expounded on our riches in Christ.

Segeggs: mosquitoes dont go to church unless its night vigil.

Upper cuts

sylve11: Man get this fact right and to the rest of u tithers,d reason Abraham gave a tenth was becos of God's deliverance from his enemies. We would call this tenth, "a thank offering". Tithing was never a part of the Abrahamic covenant.

Abraham did not give tithe to Melchizedek from his personal possessions but from the spoils of war after rescuing Lot. Therefore we can see dat Abraham wasn't following an unwritten tithe law when he gave tithe to the King of Salem. And besides, d Levitical tithe law didn't include "spoils of war." Tithing was not a part of the Abrahamic covenant. See, Gen 17.

Also remember that d tithe law was enacted by God at Sinai Num. 18:25-26 (NIV) and given only to Israel as an Old Covenant command which ended at Calvary. God never included d tithe law in the New Covenant.

THIS IS THE GOSPEL TRUTH

frosbel: will let you know nearer the time, security is paramount !

Chei, see my brother dey fear He that dwells in the SECRET PLACE OF GOD shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. But we're not ignorant of the devices of the enemy though. Glory be to God!

Image123: There should be an emoticon for shaking the head in deep pity.

First time I ever AGREE with you 100% and so that we can shake our head for you in deep pity e-hugs

Bidam: I DON LAFF TIRE HERE SO THAT'S WHAT YOU THINK ABI? FOR ME GIVING IS A PROOF I HAVE CONQUERED GREED..OF COURSE I EXERCISE MY FAITH TO EXPECT GOD TO BLESS ME COS IT IS SCRIPTURAL. HE GIVES SEEDS TO THE SOWER AND BREAD TO THE EATER...AS LONG AS THE EARTH REMAINETH SEED TIME AND HARVEST TIME SHALL NOT CEASE..THE LIBERAL SOUL SHALL BE MADE FAT..GIVING IS AN ACT OF FAITH.

Abeg to sidon joor. Show us room that doesn't contain your blessings! Otherwise, the promises of Malachi 3:8-10 is not evidence in your life. God cannot fulfill the promises that wasn't applied to you. You're deceiving yourself and making God a liar.

Alwaystrue: Happy Easter to you all. May we continually remember the good gift Christ gave us through Hs death.

@Goshen,
The law that changed was the priesthood springing from another tribe, it is so easy to understand yet you chose to complicate it. That is why Paul explained that Melchisedek received tithe even though He wasn't a levite and Jesus is a priest after tha same order. Jesus has said that those preaching the gospel should live of this same principle. I quoted scriptures yet all you have posted are assumptions. The Levitical priesthood was not hinged on tithe, they were given tithe as their wages for service. Paul took wages of other churches because those he was preaching to did not give. No matter your semantics, tithe is meant for God's service as far back as Abraham's period. So do as you please.

1. If the change was the priesthood springing from another tribe, then what happens to the law that governs the Old priesthood where the change was made from? Say it in whatever way you wanna say it, you will still need to tell us what happens to the law? Does it still remain? The law that also governs the Old priesthood that the change was made from are many. Tithe is one of them, what happens to them? Does it still remain?

2. Jesus has said that those preaching the gospel should live of this same principle. I quoted scriptures yet all you have posted are assumptions.

Yes, I have dealt with exposition on this verse before. Jesus said say but go back to where Jesus said it and see if he mentioned tithe. Whenever any person or Old Testament is quoted, you have to go back to context before you can apply it properly in where it is quoted in the New Testament otherwise, you will be quoting and applying out of context. Go, back to where Jesus said it, you will realize it is "WHATEVER THEY GIVE YOU".....when you preach the gospel. Paul was making a parallel comparison between those of Old who minister at the temple and those who preach the gospel that Jesus commanded. I don't have much time, I can look for that exposition and show you in context.

3. Paul took wages BUT not as TITHE neither by people tithing to him or any of the Apostles.

4. No matter your semantics, tithe is meant for God's service as far back as Abraham's period.

Coming back to my first question? Was Abraham obeying ANY law of tithing? When AND WHERE IN SCRIPTURES did Abraham's tithing BECAME A LAW FOR CHRISTIANS TO FOLLOW AND TITHE BY FIXED TEN PERCENT? You will need to show us please.

Bidam: You think so? ever heard of John D Rockefeller? He said and i quote “I never would have been able to tithe the first million dollars I ever made if I had not tithed my first salary, which was $1.50 per week.”
— John D. Rockefeller is a good example of consistency since you don't believe you can google him if you like.

If you rely on google and other people's personal issue to enforce a LAW on others, that's you own personal interpretation. Whatever John D. Rockefeller does is his personal money. He had given according to his grace. He is NOT an example for the Church, Christ and the Apostles are.

I don't understand why you pick someone in your greed to show us as example. Is his name written in scriptures for us to follow after? If Christ and the Apostle NEVER taught tithe to the church and you're doing such, simply, you're going BEYOND what is written in scripture and as if what is written in scriptures isn't enough for you, then you have to lift John D. Rockefeller to support your tithe teaching. I don't covet no man's riches\wealth neither does the church of God.

May God help you!

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. Hebrews 7:12

One of the ways to unloose the truth is doing word studies on the original text. I'm going to do quick word study. The whole context of Hebrew 7 is to testify to the truth that, when the Levites who owns the tithe is gone, the tithe itself is gone. There's no cherry picking the priesthood is gone and the tithe remains - the Levitical priesthood have the commandment TO TAKE TITHE ACCORDING TO THE LAW. Therefore, if those I'm to give the tithe to is abolished, then the commandment too is abolished. Exactly what Hebrews 7:12 says. Let do a quick word study to see what "change" means.

Here, http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Hbr&c=7&v=12&t=KJV#12 I open the text, Hebrews 7:12 in KJV that is keyed into Strong's concordance. And here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Hbr&c=7&v=12&t=KJV#conc/12 I opened the concordance to give us the meaning. "BEING CHANGED" is the Greek word #3346, metatithēmi and it means,

1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other)
a) to transfer
b) to change
c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred

1) to go or pass over

2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another

It is the same Greek word #3346 used by the Apostle Paul that means "REMOVED" in Galatians 1:6 saying,

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

And the second use of "change" which is of necessity is the Greek word with Strong's #G3331 and it has its root word or etymology in #3346 metathesis and it means 1) transfer: from one place to another 2) to change a) of things instituted or established. By its etymology, it is the same word used by the writer of Hebrews in Hebrews 12:27 that also means "REMOVING",

And this [word], Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

Therefore, by the meaning of Hebrews 7:12, the entire Levitical priesthood is REMOVED and REPLACED with the priesthood of Christ and also the priesthood of believers because it only a shadow of good things to come and not the very substance, Hebrews 10:1 - there MUST also be of necessity a change (REMOVAL) also of the LAW. To distort the truth in Hebrews 7 is to destroy the word of God. The priesthood is gone, so are the laws governing it including the law of tithing to them.

Image123: Rather have nothing to contribute than contribute poison, and remove from the word of God just to get attention. Even a sinner knows that God is our Father so i seriously wonder what you're trying to convey. Ask the average person on the street, the secular musicians and the nollywood actor/actress and they'll tell you about 'Baba God'. Everyone sane person knows God is our Father. The Bible clearly teaches that Abraham is the father of every believer. It is expedient as that's the way to be blessed by the seed Jesus Christ. Go and learn what it means to say that the letter killeth, it is the Spirit that gives life.

Again, you're still quoting this your unlearned "the letter killeth and the Spirit gives life". I have told you on the other thread, you're yet to leave religious interpretation and what was passed down to you. Get out of religion and start afresh. That letter that killeth is the same LAW OF MOSES that you strongly hold onto and MIX with Grace. Indeed, it becomes a little leaven in the Gospel of Grace. Again, read 2 Corinthians 3:6 in all other translations and you see, the "letter" is the LAW OF MOSES, that kills.

First, you jump to conclusion so quickly. Didn't you read what I wrote up there? Abraham is a 2-fold meaning man. Go read what I wrote up there because I'm not ready to repeat myself. If the OP said, "Christians, Abraham is NOT your father". That might means NOT our natural father according to the flesh - what do you say in that case? Off course he is right! That's why I was asking those and as we know, Abraham is the father of those who are of faith, then what does that mean? None of you have given a biblical answer yet and you're here talking but saying nothing.

Image123: Tithing is a form of giving, remember? Not all forms of giving are sustainable, that's why the practice of having all things in common didn't last. Do you practice this new testament form of giving, abi na so so mouth you get?

Sometimes, I think someone else is using your handle to comment because the things you say sometimes baffle me. Yes, tithing is a form of giving and so is 1% a form of giving. Do you agree with that also? What you still hold onto is the FIXED 10 PERCENT. I keep saying, THAT 10 PERCENT WAS NEVER WRITTEN TO THE CHURCH IN THE FIRST PLACE. Tithe was given to train the Israel in the way of GIVING and SHARING. That's what you read the Apostles practiced without A FIXED 10 PERCENT.

Image123, teach God's people to take away the FIXED 10 PERCENT and it becomes Grace based giving and sharing according to the New Testament. I have challenged you or Bidam, if your tithe is done in God's way, you should have seen the blessings of Malachi 3:8-10 visible in your life, if not, you're simply doing something wrong. God cannot do what he had not promised to you. The reason many pay tithe and are still a borrower is because the promise of tithe in Malachi 3:8-10 WASN'T DIRECTED TO THEM, THE CHURCH. Don't expect God to keep what he didn't promise you!

Image123: There is no such verse except you're trying to twist that verse that says something about the end of THE LAW. Tithe is not the law, infact you already know that Jesus said mercy, judgment and faith are more significant parts of the law than tithes. You have a problem with the letter.

There is no such verse except you're trying to twist that verse that says something about the end of THE LAW.

If it says something about the END OF THE LAW....of Moses perhaps. I don't know why you're always talking from both sides of your mouth. One time, you will come out saying the law had not ended and here you're saying the verse is talking about the end of the law. Either way you wanna take it - If the law is ended according to you, is the tithe not included in the law that had ended? Do you have another separate law for tithing other than what you have in the law of Moses? There's nothing to twist about Hebrews 7, it's very clear. Take it that it was the priesthood that had changed, then the law regulating them MUST also change. Take it that verse 18 disannulled tithe, it is still gone. As long as you agree that the Levitical Priesthood is gone, you indirectly agree but might not say that tithe is also gone because they own the sole commandment to take tithe ACCORDING TO THE LAW. You're a law keeper so you should understand keeping some part of the law of Moses that says the Levites own the tithes ACCORDING TO THE LAW.

You have a problem with the letter.

Yes, I have a big problem with the letter(s). That letter(s) is THE LAW OF MOSES. Read 2 Corinthians 3:6 in all other translations and you see, the "letter" is the LAW OF MOSES, that kills. I'm also willing to tear it (the law of Moses) down so that Grace can abound in the body of Christ - That's the same job Apostle Paul did with those Judaizers of his days like what we have today too in the body of Christ, tearing down keeping the Mosaic laws for Christians, Galatians 2:18 in all available translations. Those who're trying to mix some part of the law of Moses with Grace of Christ are simple doing contrary to the Apostolic order in Acts 15 and you've proved yourself to be one of them.

When Apostle Paul said, "the letter killeth...". Many thinks he was talking about not following what is written in black and white. He was actually talking about the LAW OF MOSES, THE WRITTEN LAW...that resulted to killing\death. If we're not to follow the letters as in what is written in black and white, why then does the Apostle wrote,

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Brothers and sisters, I have applied this to Apollos and myself for your sake. You should learn from us not to go beyond what is written in Scripture. Then you won't arrogantly place one of us in opposition to the other.

NET Bible (©2006)
I have applied these things to myself and Apollos because of you, brothers and sisters, so that through us you may learn "not to go beyond what is written," so that none of you will be puffed up in favor of the one against the other.

New International Version (©2011)
Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

1 Corinthians 4:6

Image123, you're going beyond what is written for Christians. The Christian age started when the New Covenant of Christ engrafted us, the Non-Jew into the Covenant of God. We do not have the law of Moses in the first place. It wasn't written to us. I have given you more than 10 scriptures in the past, the law wasn't written to us but we can learn from it as the scriptures says BUT IT DOES NOT APPLY TO US.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. Romans 3:19

Ubenedictus: d presence of christ doesnt mean we shouldn't read other parts of scripture.
@ Op yes, my pastor preaches for songs of songs, have u ever hear people call Jesus "rose of sharon"? Well they borrowed it from that book.
That part of scripture is usually interpreted with symbolism to mean christ and his bride the church (if you are prone to bad imagination then i'll advise you not to interprete anything there literally).
On the other hand "mystic" interprete that book as a reflection of their personal relation with christ, this is how i interprete it most times.

lomaxx: Ur point is??

masonkz: In that case, all books of the old testament should be scrapped. Right?

The way you people reason scriptures at times, I'm afraid. What the statement of Christ meant is what it meant - Greater than Solomon is here. If Solomon had much wisdom as he had then, greater than Solomon is Christ. If Solomon had mush wealth\blessings, greater than Solomon is Christ. Solomon existed literally as a person but he was also a type of Christ. Whatever Solomon was, it was fulfilled in Christ.

The law and the prophets were all pointing to Christ. In Christ is the complete revelation of truth, wisdom and mystery. Hence, when you're readying or studying the Old, look no further thing other than Christ. In the time of Christ and the Apostles, when the New Testament had not yet being completed, they only relied on the Old then. We're too blessed now not to be deep in the word of God because we have both the Old and the New Testament.

New International Version (©2011)
And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

◄ Matthew 3:9 ►

New International Version (©2011)
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter?

New Living Translation (©2007)
Abraham was, humanly speaking, the founder of our Jewish nation. What did he discover about being made right with God?

English Standard Version (©2001)
What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh?

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

◄ Romans 4:1 ►

New Living Translation (©2007)
Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous--even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith.

◄ Romans 4:11 ►

We shall pick up from here! We must understand the perspective of 'fatherhood' to which Abraham belongs. I will build from those three scriptures that points the 'fatherhood' of Abraham. Abraham is a two-fold meaning man - a spiritual father of them that are of faith and a natural (according to the flesh) father of the Jewish nation.