₦airaland Forum

Awesome!

Awesome!

Well, I have many things to contribute to this thread but I'm constrained by time for now. Hopefully, I will come back to continue. Lemme leave you guys with this truth for now. Scripture makes it very clear that anyone who teaches that Christians should mix Christ's teachings with Jewish regulations is a FALSE teacher.

Amplified Bible (AMP)
[My precaution was] because of false brethren who had been secretly smuggled in [to the Christian brotherhood]; they had slipped in to spy on our liberty and the freedom which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might again bring us into bondage [under the Law of Moses].

New Living Translation (©2007)
Even that question came up only because of some so-called Christians there--false ones, really--who were secretly brought in. They sneaked in to spy on us and take away the freedom we have in Christ Jesus. They wanted to enslave us and force us to follow their Jewish regulations. - Galatians 2:4

What Christianity operates on; different from the law of Moses which is of sin and death IS the law of the Spirit, of life in Christ Jesus. We must also understand that the bible as a whole is written to three groups - Jews, Gentiles and the church of God, 1 Corinthians 10:32. Christians must know when we were en-grafted into God's covenant and redemption plan. Scripture says the first covenant was ONLY between God and Israel. The church of God under the NT has no business with the first covenant and that first covenant had been taken away (in mathematics, it means minus or subtraction) so that the New covenant can be added (meaning, plus).

Expanded Bible (EXB)
The first agreement [covenant; contract;  given to Israel through Moses; 8:7, 13] had rules [regulations; requirements] for worship and a place on earth for worship [ earthly sanctuary/holy place].

New Living Translation (©2007)
That first covenant between God and Israel had regulations for worship and a place of worship here on earth.- Hebrews 9:1

Now, God himself took AWAY the FIRST (agreement or covenant or contract) here in order to establish the second or new.

Amplified Bible (AMP)
When God speaks of a new [covenant or agreement], He makes the first one obsolete (out of use). And what is obsolete (out of use and annulled because of age) is ripe for disappearance and to be dispensed with altogether. - Hebrews 8:13

What is the 'first one' here? You don't have to guess - it's what you have in Hebrews 9:1 which is the following verse to Hebrews 8:13 in context. Christians are called to the complete truth and revelation of the NT, in Spirit and life. That's why Apostle Paul said, "Christ has MADE us ministers of the NEW COVENANT...."

I have to go now please. I need to attend to other issues for today.

christemmbassey: great, but if they dont confuse believers with old testament stuffs how will they get their 10%, firsts fruites and sowing of seeds? 2Peter2:17-19

As long as Christians don't understand EXACTLY what Christ meant when he was revealing to the disciples things concerning himself FROM MOSES to the PROPHETS, they will keep getting being confused. See how first fruits was pointing to Christ and Christ already fulfilled it in the NT complete revelation,

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. - 1 Corinthians 15:23

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In you shall all nations be blessed. - Galatians 3:8

Here we see by complete revelation that the gospel started from Genesis. It continued until the Prophets and the to Christ. Bear in mind, from Genesis to the Prophets and till Christ came and died, all of those Gospel preached were old testament nature that was for that time and it NOT COMPLETE revelation. Let me use scriptures now,

Expanded Bible (EXB)
In the past [Long ago] God spoke to our ancestors [forefathers; fathers] through the prophets many times [or in a fragmentary/partial way;  in many parts] and in many different ways. But now in these last days God has spoken to us through his Son [or a son; 1:3]. God has chosen [appointed] his Son to own [be heir/inheritor of] all things, and through him he made the world [universe; ages;  comprising both space and time; John 1:3]. - Hebrews 1:1-2

New Living Translation (©2007)
Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, explaining from all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. - Luke 24:27

Except one doesn't believe or accept Moses as the writer of Genesis. To them during the time of Genesis, they don't have the complete revelation that we have today. The NT has completed the revelation hidden in the OT. It has revealed it and completed it, why are folks still trying to google around the Old. Is the Old part of scriptures? YES! Should we tear it away from scriptures? NO! It is for our learning so we can appreciate where we are coming from and ALL scriptures (Old and New) is given by inspiration of God and profitable for teachings, instruction etc. Does ALL scriptures APPLY to Christians? NO!

First, ^^^ I STRONGLY agree with your opening post. However, some folks will begin to misunderstand the NT concept that we're teaching that Old is no more necessary and important to us in the NT. Let no one be confused! The scripture says the Gospel was hidden in the OT and the revelation contained in the OT is in fragments or pieces or parts. The NT is the real deal and complete revelation found/complete in Christ.

Many Pastors confuse church folks with OT and NT. You can't mix both together and enjoy the treasures of the NT. Truth be told, Christianity IS NOT Judaism!

I love to participate in this interesting thread. This thread, I believe will set the captives free. I will suggest we use scriptures to explain scriptures as I have always taught here. Only bible explains bible, we only interpret and we are only told to interpret using scriptures to explain scriptures.

Now, lemme get into the real stuff here. I will make my study and reference work known for the purpose of transparency and proving the text.

1. I use this study material for Studying the NT: The Complete Word Study New Testament By Spiros Zodhiates. The link is found below. Checking the link, click on "Additional Views" at the buttom of the front page in order to see the content.

http://www.christianbook.com/the-complete-word-study-new-testament/spiros-zodhiates/9780899576510/pd/71843?product_redirect=1&Ntt=71843&item_code=&Ntk=keywords&event=ESRCP

2. This "Complete Word Study New Testament" has an online version here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.cfm
(I will open the link to the online version when I reference the word study to prove the text as I teach along)

I wont go too deep sha, just a small and straight forward shot! Since we agree on your answers to: The physical head, Showing disregard and Christ being the head (Spiritual head or authority), I will not go into those one but will ONLY deal with the TWO we disagree on; That is, the "Every male" and "Having an object (hat/cap)"

Every man praying or prophesying, having [his] head covered, dishonoureth his head. - 1 Corinthians 11:4

1. Every man: There are two Greek words for 'man' in scriptures. One for man as a human being; the other contrasting man with woman or child. The latter form is used for every man in this instance as we clearly see from the context. It is wrong to understand this in the generic sense as 'every man or woman.' and as every human beings.

2. Covered: This word "covered" is the Greek kata and it means 1) down from, through out and 2) according to, toward, along.

The Greek meaning of the word, "covered" culled from here:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Cr&c=11&v=4&t=KJV#conc/4 (This link takes you to 1 Corinthians 11:4 and gives you the Greek key words and entry numbers)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2596&t=KJV (This link takes you into the meaning of the word being studied, See for yourself)

Now, it could mean having [something] down from his head. What the [something] is is neither stated nor implied in 1 Cor. 11:4. To better understand the text since we now have the meaning in Greek. We need to substitute the meaning for the word "covered" and let's see how it reads,

Every man praying or prophesying, having [i](something) down from [his] head, dishonoureth Christ.[/i]

The notion and import into the text that Paul in this place referred to the [Hebrew: tallith] (shawl), or [Greek: yarmelke] (skull cap) worn by Jewish worshipers is refuted by the fact that the Greek New Testament does not indicate in this verse any artificial covering of any kind as seen from the Greek Study tools. Significantly, the words 'down from' in the Greek word study strongly resemble Paul's words 'having something down from his head'. The scriptural understanding of this would refer it to 'long hair' being long enough to hang down from (remember the Greek definition of 'covered') the head, as clearly indicated by the apostles' words a moment later: 'If a man have long hair, (down from his head - mine added) it is a dishonor to him' (1 Corinthians 11:14). This same 'dishonour' fits into verse 4.

The ancients accepted Paul's dictum on this and went so far as to define the length of hair that was considered an infraction of Paul's words. The hair of the head may not grow so long as to come down and interfere with the eyes; cropping is to be adopted. Let not twisted locks hang far down from the head, gliding into womanish ringlets. We may therefore interpret this verse as a simple admonition that it was a disgrace for any long-haired Christian male to participate in praying and prophesying; and this interpretation certainly harmonizes with verse 14.

anukulapo: 1) Every male
2) The physical head
3) Having an object (hat/cap)
4) Showing disregard
5) The divine authority (of christ) which he (the man) is under

First, I can't but laugh at you! This is not to mean an insult please! I do not mean to offend you by my statement that I can't just but laugh at you and your answer. The reason is, is this how you do exposition and/or teachings? Without showing how you arrived at your answers? Without using scriptures to explain scriptures? Without proving the text? I can't believe this! So when you're asked to prove such as A+3B, you just go ahead and give your answers without showing how you arrive at your answers? I even gave you a clue saying "in your own exposition and teaching".

Anyway, I will help you out! Perhaps this thread will set you free from your religious long held interpretation of scriptures. That's if you wish to learn and follow the truth. Okay. Let's look at your answers,

1) Every male...........THIS IS WRONG!

2) The physical head.......THIS IS RIGHT!

3) Having an object (hat/cap)...........THIS IS WRONG!. The text doesn't mention hat/cap neither does it mention covered with item. This is your addition and/or importation into God's word. Such is dangerous please! Where, here or in any other text does it mention hat/cap as covered items?

4) Showing disregard.................THIS IS RIGHT!

5) The divine authority (of christ) which he (the man) is under................THIS IS RIGHT!

Every man praying or prophesying, having [his] head covered, dishonoureth his head. - 1 Corinthians 11:4

Key words:

1. Every man
2. [his] head......which one since head has two definitions?
3. covered
4. dishonoureth
5. his head........which one since head has two definitions?

What (in your own exposition and teaching) is this verse saying?

anukulapo: That is the format for the Divine order of spiritual authority.
God hath no head(not under any authority--no one can subject God) and the woman also hath no one under her (in terms of divine authority).

Okay. Let's not start the teaching from this verse then. I AGREE with you that this verse establishes DIVINE AUTHORITY. Now, let's move on to see if this verse relates to the subject of head covering or not, that is was Paul talking about authority as it relates to head covering or both or using this verse to establish God's authority but using illustration of head of man and head of woman.

Besides, there are two definitions to the word head as used in scriptures. This verse uses ONLY one of the definitions - Authority and if you like to add, submission.

Image123: swagger ke? I yam a born againi oh, na Bible bi my own oh, no swaggering, love not the world na my pledge oh, I don crucify sotey i no fit walk sef, not to mention teach you swagger. no koba kobalise me oh. again, forget my wahala jare.

Okay Bishop! I hear you. I no dey follow the world too as I'm also crucified with Christ. That one na just effysi (shakara) things. I forgo your wahala thing in Jesus' name.

Image123: i said to forget my wahala, you no read that part? minister as werin na, i no be pastor oh! and you must give all the tithes you don dogde so the meeting won't be tight lolololol.

Bros, no be only pastor dem dey invite na. Na this make I remember when I was at Fedpoffa and was the Youth President of RCCG, Winner's Parish and I invited a brother from my Lagos church to come minister in Youth programme. Na so our pastor dey vex..... .

If you come preach tithe here, na so my members go dey look you. Them go put you for next available flight back to where I invited you from...... . Abeg no come start that wahala here. You say make we leaf/forget your wahala but you no dey stop wahala making..... . Anyway, I've learnt some swagga from you here on this forum!....

@ MostHigh,

I've heard you. I hope to hear from anukulapo and then, we can continue. I hope you also stay with this thread to the end.

Image123: you didn't go politically correct on the thread, forget my wahala, i like wahala too much.

On the highlight....that's why I like to dey open my snr brother yansh for public...... . So that him go caution him wahala making.... . Abeg no take am too hard o, just joking. How body? Are you getting ready to come minister for my church for Yankee? But no bring wahala sha o,

luxanne: hmm, after all the fights, I hope it won't continue when you all meet o especially when you find out that the handle insulting you here is one short dwarf,

and quickly take my exit before them come catch me here. This one na knockout o.

#Exit thread; derail avoided

^^^
My sister, na so we see am o. Tattoo don become issue for Christians now. Anyways, I ONLY said my view and also made it clear that the NT said nothing about it. I also did not go with the OT scriptures being lifted to go against tattoo. My 'view' is personal thought but I will not bother if I see tattoo on my church members especially if it was done BEFORE they came to Christ. I will only worry if such is done AFTER their new life in Christ - wondering how it fits into their new life in Christ. Again, that's my 'personal view' madam dearest, .

@ Brother Anony,

Well, I made my stance very clear enough. I do NOT condemn ANY Christian as such that scriptures do NOT condemn them IF THEY HAVE TATTOO BEFORE THEY COME TO CHRIST. I simply do NOT see why a Christian will go for tattoo AFTER coming to Christ. For what purpose will it serve? See, I reside in the States and I see tattoos even beautiful ones. OmG, I'm so crazy about it and love them because it appeals to my eyes and I love it personally but to what purpose does it serve a Christian? Now, If these ladies and men that wear this tattoos are not yet in Christ, shall we condemn them AFTER they come to Christ with the same body that has tattoo? NO! Because it was done before they came to Christ.

You know too well that I'm a minister of the New Covenant as well. I do not press Christians to follow the Mosaic law and that has been some of my teachings here. Hence, I do not go with the verses quoted from Leviticus. Is it part of scriptures? YES! Is it for Christians? NO! However, the NT teaches we should glorify God in or with our body and especially when it says OUR BODY NO LONGER BELONGS TO US AFTER WE COME TO CHRIST. If our body doesn't belong to us but to Christ, how do we treat how body the way WE LIKE? Doing that is to mean, we are NOT YET CONSUMED IN THE WILL OF THE MASTER. Hence, we are NOT servants of God - A servant is one who is subjective to the will of his master.

Any Christian that has tattoo BEFORE they came to Christ should go on in his or her Christian walk. But if a Christian AFTER coming to Christ still go after tattoo, I don't just see how that fits into the new life in Christ Jesus. This is my personal view from scriptures.

Image123: chei, spite, goshen.

You no like Yankee 'spite' again? Abi make I pour 9ja saliva for u ni? You know say you go come minister for me church for Yankee here, make you start dey learn this Yankee 'spite' o, or else, pepper no go rest I tell ya. Ya feel me bro?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Do you consider tatoos to be sin against our own bodies? If yes, could you provide scriptural backing for this?[/quote]I do consider tattoos to be sin against our body and consequently against God ONLY AFTER someone comes to Christ, not BEFORE. Now, there's no scripture that SPECIFICALLY mentioned tattoos especially for Christians but lots of verses infers our body doesn't belong to is anymore but to God and we must glorify God in or with our body.

Galatians 2:20 and 1 cor. 6:20.

Bro Anony,

Go ahead with what you wanna say please.

@ anukulapo,

Thanks for choosing to go my way. This ease my heart now. Like you said, it is doctrinal differences, not only between us here on this forum but universal. We can prove the truth weather our denomination believes otherwise or not. I have learnt not to speak the language of my denomination but of the word. Let me save all the stories anyway. Let's start exposition. I choose kjv first as AV and follow by other translations, if need be. Here we go:

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God. - 1 Corinthians 11:3 in KJV

Let's dig it in participatory format, you ask questions and I ask questions, you teach using scriptures to explain scriptures. You find meanings to important words and I do same etc

That being said, what do you think our Apostle Paul is saying in verse and how do you think this verse is related to what Paul is teaching in the passages? And how do you come to conclusion on what you think Paul is inferring by this verse?

And I dey answer you na.....If you ask me, na who I go ask. You no feel me?

Tgirl4real: what are u feeling like?

As in? ....PM me. You might in the Spirit.

If you as me na who I go ask

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]Thanks @Jesoul and Goshen360. It's a bit clearer to me now.
Can I ask one more question?[/quote]Speak! For thy the servants of God heareth.

moredendisc: The reasons why Christians are falling for false teachings and doctrines and putting up with it are

because Christians over the years have been preconditioned and set up by the status quo and establishment to fall for the false teachings and doctrines

Moreover, since most Christians, don't know any better and are none the wiser, they will believe whatever debasement(s) are flung at them, hook, line and sinker

The journey at this side of eternity, unfortunately for Christians, does not stop with only reading the bible.

but also to read beyond these errant bible translations (i.e. all in varying degrees have strayed from the proper or real meanings of some word(s) in the original Hebrew and Greek texts/scripture)

and to study beyond these errant bible translations to show oneself approved unto God.

Not nice unwelcome or harmful things happen when Christians practice or repeat teachings and doctrines without properly or exhaustively analysing or comprehending them.

Christians need to be considering wordings, teachings and doctrines in details

and to understand these wordings, teachings, doctrines etc instead of lapping up regurgitates and lies without questioning anything

If a teaching or doctrine sounds too good to be true, it means it's more than likely a lie.

Mindful example will be ""You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman." Gen 3:4 NIV

Christians should not base their understanding principally on the Bible alone, because ALL the translations are errant as hinted earlier on above.

Christians should be carrying out investigations on words, texts etc and referencing them from whichever bible they are using, with the original Hebrew/Greek texts

It is ONLY the original Hebrew/Greek texts that are inerrant and not KJV and the other translated Bible(s)

Christians reading the bible by itself, only, without cross checking words, texts etc with the original Hebrew/Greek texts can be and will be damned by the bible.

This is the silver bullet and way forward, of course in-conjunction with the Spirit of Truth, for such a complicated problem as this


# Side-lining the bible translations (i.e. KJV et al) what does the wordings "eternal punishment" Matthew 25:46 really mean from the original Greek text's perspective

I'm Goshen360 and I ENDORSE this message! +1,000,000,000 likes

No mind me bro, I live in a different world. Mine is not sleep o'clock yet. Thank for the care.

moredendisc: Why should you be answering OP, especially when it was noted OP is a a neophyte, an ignoramus for that matter.

OP's post needed to let roll off like "water off a ducks back" without answering

Goshen360 got his knickers in a twist

Yes, I do understand the meaning of TIME - Time is gold. Precious. SMH

Yeah, you got me twisted...nice one! . Thanks bro.

Okay, FXKing2012,

I fully understand you and I believe you're right. Our body doesn't belong to us ANYMORE ONLY AFTER we come to Christ. Personally, I'm tattoo craze on women because I personally love it but I don't see any biblical reason why any Christian AFTER being born again will wear tattoo, I mean AFTER born again experience. That will be against scriptures according to the verses you raised.

Apostle Paul said, "the life I NOW life, that is AFTER BEING CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST, is no longer my life but Christ that lives in me, I only live in my body by faith.

Those who say Christians can do whatever they like with their body errs in the very face of the New testament scriptures you quoted.

That being said, we need to address two issues here:

1. Tribal mark isn't done by people who carry it but most of them by the parent when the child is young. Therefore, when such child(ten) come to Christ, they're not responsible for such tribal marks. God is not going to punish them for such before and after they come to Christ.

2. Those who have tattoos BEFORE they're born again. God is not going to punish them for such. Why? Old things are gone if anyone be in Christ, all things are now new. That's new creation and in new creation, we're not given a new or another body, it's still the same body if the person if tattooed.

moredendisc: It's easy to spot a neophyte, particularly an ignoramus, when you see one.

This is water off a duck's back.

So I should spend my time answering his copy and paste work without any assurance of rewards? Do you understand the meaning of TIME

The word of God is under attack in our days and generation. There's NO CONTRADICTION WHATSOEVER IN THE WORD OF GOD THAT WE SERVE. We serve a Living God.

@ Op, what is the reward if ALL your questions are clearly answered with crystal clear explanations Your ignorance is another man's knowledge! Tell me the rewards and let's start to give your answers.