₦airaland Forum

Suggestion: Every week, we should scan hot and educative topics following the three categories you've specified and update or post such threads here. It will serve as library to get easy access to great threads.

@ musKeeto, what you think?

[quote author=ifee-gee]Bro Goshen,I admire ur in depth knowledge of the bible so much,its now a motivating factor to want to study my bible more.Though,I do not agree with some of ur dispositions sha....Just my opinion,no offence intended.[/quote]Off course my dear sister, I don't take offense at your words. No, never! It's not an insult. I appreciate your compliment though and If I've motivated you to study the word more, to God be the glory. One thing I know is, the body of Christ lack teachers. It's okay to disagree. It is not because the word of God is not forever settled but we disagree due to our understanding and interpretation.

One of my job on this forum is to point people to Christ. Only follow me as long as I follow Christ. There is also need to subject my teachings to scriptural scrutiny just as the Bereans did when Apostle Paul taught them. Think about it,

"...They searched (examined) the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth". - Acts 17:11

davidylan: wow. What bible version is this? So clear.

New Living Translation (NLT). I think The Expanded Bible also makes it clearer, very similar with NLT. Read the Expanded Bible version of 1 Corinthians 14 [url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2014&version=EXB]HERE[/url].

I love my Expanded Bible

Joagbaje: There difference between praying in tongues and speaking in tongues . Praying in tongues is to God . Speaking in tongues is to people or on behalf of people . Such requires interpretation.

This is the kind of error Apostle Paul was trynna correct. How do you mean that speaking in tongues it to PEOPLE?. I can manage to understand the "ON BEHALF OF PEOPLE" aspect because we can be ignited by the Spirit of God to intercede for someone and in such, we know not what to pray but the Spirit gives us utterance. Scripture says in verse 2, "...ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you...."

The ONLY way you SPEAK to God is in PRAYER. So how do you mean you can speak TO people in tongues. And since people don't interpret such, why do they speak/pray in tongues in churches?

Joagbaje: 1 Corinthians 14:27-28
. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak [size=20pt]to himself, and to God.[/size]

Speakiing to himself and to God . doesnt mean outside the church.

Joagbaje, when did speaking to HIMSELF = speaking to people? Himself, People? Huh. You need to balance this "speaking to "himself" and to God as PRIVATE prayer to God because when such speaking/praying in the churches is done, Apostle Paul said, no one understand you and even unbeliever in your midst dont understand you. So he said, keep the tongues to yourself or when you talk to God privately. Again, the setting of this context is church meetings, inside the church as seen in verse 19, 23 and 26. The context of the setting is gathering in worship places.

Joagbaje: So if the whole church prays individually in tongues . It's perfectly ok. It's personal. Between each person and God.the issue here is not what language you're speaking. But who are you speaking to. God, man, or yourself .

Joagbaje, this is exactly what Paul was trynna correct my brother. He (Apostle Paul) even went as far as mention number of people to speak in tongues and in such case, an interpreter is needed (verse 27-28). If an individual is to pray to God, he should pray to God in private (in tongues), verse 28. Again, do not confuse yourself with speaking and praying. You pray to God by speaking. Notice, "speaking" and "praying" used interchangeably. We don't pray to ourselves or to men but to God.

First, lemme make it very clear I'm NOT against speaking (or praying) in tongues as I do speak (or pray) in tongues myself by the means of Spiritual gift.

Second, there are two categories of tongues recorded in scriptures namely:

1. The Sign Tongues
2. The Prayer Tongues

The Sign tongues happened on the day on Pentecost and it was a known and understandable tongues by the unbelievers. The prayer tongues is a Spiritual gift that engages one's praying in the spirit. verse 2; 13-14 of I Corinthians 14. This kind of praying tongues, no ONE understand it neither is it a known language because it is mysterious in the Spirit, (verse 2).

However, today I often see many church folk speaking in tongues in the open Christian meetings without any interpretation and such is against scripture. Many preachers often intercept their preaching and messages in between by speaking in tongues. This is nothing but an abuse of speaking in tongues and disorderly worship to God. My favourite Apostle Paul said,

"27 No more than two or three should speak in tongues. They must speak one at a time, and someone must interpret what they say. 28 But if no one is present who can interpret, they must be silent in your church meeting and speak in tongues to God privately".

"Silent" in this context doesn't mean they cannot speak or pray or sing etc in church meetings but rather, they MUST hold their peace and rather speak or pray (in tongues if you would) to God PRIVATELY. It is saddening that even preachers encourage such kinds of abuse of the gift of speaking or praying to God in tongues in our churches like the Corinthian Christians. As you read through this piece today, you're encourage to take corrective measures in the word of God.

Today, we begin a journey to corrective surgery and knowledge in our churches (2 Timothy 3:16) and we shall discuss the Abuse or misuse of speaking in tongues. The whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 14 taught on Spiritual gifts, contrasting between prophecy and speaking or praying in tongues.

New Living Translation (NLT)

Tongues and Prophecy

1 Let love be your highest goal! But you should also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives—especially the ability to prophesy.

2 For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious.

3 But one who prophesies strengthens others, encourages them, and comforts them.

4 A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.

5 I wish you could all speak in tongues, but even more I wish you could all prophesy. For prophecy is greater than speaking in tongues, unless someone interprets what you are saying so that the whole church will be strengthened.

6 Dear brothers and sisters, if I should come to you speaking in an unknown language, how would that help you? But if I bring you a revelation or some special knowledge or prophecy or teaching, that will be helpful.

7 Even lifeless instruments like the flute or the harp must play the notes clearly, or no one will recognize the melody.

8 And if the bugler doesn’t sound a clear call, how will the soldiers know they are being called to battle?

9 It’s the same for you. If you speak to people in words they don’t understand, how will they know what you are saying? You might as well be talking into empty space.

10 There are many different languages in the world, and every language has meaning.

11 But if I don’t understand a language, I will be a foreigner to someone who speaks it, and the one who speaks it will be a foreigner to me.

12 And the same is true for you. Since you are so eager to have the special abilities the Spirit gives, seek those that will strengthen the whole church.

13 So anyone who speaks in tongues should pray also for the ability to interpret what has been said.

14 For if I pray in tongues, my spirit is praying, but I don’t understand what I am saying.

15 Well then, what shall I do? I will pray in the spirit, and I will also pray in words I understand. I will sing in the spirit, and I will also sing in words I understand.

16 For if you praise God only in the spirit, how can those who don’t understand you praise God along with you? How can they join you in giving thanks when they don’t understand what you are saying?

17 You will be giving thanks very well, but it won’t strengthen the people who hear you.

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than any of you.

19 But in a church meeting I would rather speak five understandable words to help others than ten thousand words in an unknown language.

20 Dear brothers and sisters, don’t be childish in your understanding of these things. Be innocent as babies when it comes to evil, but be mature in understanding matters of this kind.

21 It is written in the Scriptures:

“I will speak to my own people through strange languages and through the lips of foreigners. But even then, they will not listen to me,” says the Lord.

22 So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers.

23 Even so, if unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your church meeting and hear everyone speaking in an unknown language, they will think you are crazy.

24 But if all of you are prophesying, and unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your meeting, they will be convicted of sin and judged by what you say.

25 As they listen, their secret thoughts will be exposed, and they will fall to their knees and worship God, declaring, “God is truly here among you.”

A Call to Orderly Worship

26 Well, my brothers and sisters, let’s summarize. When you meet together, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you.

27 No more than two or three should speak in tongues. They must speak one at a time, and someone must interpret what they say.

28 But if no one is present who can interpret, they must be silent in your church meeting and speak in tongues to God privately.

29 Let two or three people prophesy, and let the others evaluate what is said.

30 But if someone is prophesying and another person receives a revelation from the Lord, the one who is speaking must stop.

31 In this way, all who prophesy will have a turn to speak, one after the other, so that everyone will learn and be encouraged.

32 Remember that people who prophesy are in control of their spirit and can take turns.

33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace, as in all the meetings of God’s holy people.

34 Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says.

35 If they have any questions, they should ask their husbands at home, for it is improper for women to speak in church meetings.

36 Or do you think God’s word originated with you Corinthians? Are you the only ones to whom it was given?

37 If you claim to be a prophet or think you are spiritual, you should recognize that what I am saying is a command from the Lord himself.

38 But if you do not recognize this, you yourself will not be recognized.

39 So, my dear brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and don’t forbid speaking in tongues.

40 But be sure that everything is done properly and in order.

1 Corinthians 14

...to be continue

^^^ Yes brother, we did. I can't get the thread either. Hence, we have to go through this again. Thanks for the contribution and explanations sir.

@ Dear brother debosky,

Here is what I mostly do in trying to seek the truth. If Apostle Paul wrote to Corinthians and talked about women being silent in church gathering and the same Apostle wrote to Timothy, I (personally) will take ALL OF HIS WORDS AND TEACHINGS TOGETHER, COMPARE AND CONTRAST in order to find out what he was saying.

Going back to the context of Timothy and Corinthians, as I also had some hard time dealing with this subject in the past. Why will Paul just say women should be 'silence'? On what ground? I sought after the answer - you will agree with me that the Corinthians church are most carnal Christians during Paul's time. Like I said, if being silence means complete shut up, then there isn't any reasonable point women singing, leading praying point, etc.

On the context of Timothy, I come to the stand that the teaching aspect is an aspect of defining doctrine. Like you said, one might still be unsure weather things said by the Apostle is the Lord's instruction or personal especially when we consider the use of "I" by Apostle Paul. Well, it's okay for us to disagree at times while we seek the truth of God's word.

We might consider this scriptures by Apostle Paul still,

New Living Translation (©2007)
But among the Lord's people, women are not independent of men, and men are not independent of women. - 1 Corinthians 11:11

anukulapo: You got me right.

Okay! Very good. Now, can you help all of us to check the mean of "covering" in this verse please.

But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for [her] hair is given her for a covering. - 1 Cor. 11:15.

If you have a concordance/dictionary, kindly help us check the meaning of the word highlighted in RED, "covering" so that everybody can read and learn. Take your time please. When you get the meaning, kindly post it here (maybe with your source) and we continue. Thanks. I hope I'm not asking too much? We are all learning you know.

Please be careful they don't put you in their club of non-rest. Some people are now beginning to go TO and FRO like the devil, jumping to and fro every thread opened on board without rest because there is no rest for them. Only God can give you rest.

#And don't dare assume or think I was talking to you. Did I mention your I.d?

Reyginus: A rest is what you need then.

#Entered the thread. Read your comment to HIM. until I rolled on the floor. Got up and shake off the dust. Ran out of the thread. Resting mode now activated# Nice one Reyginus!

Tgirl4real: @ Goshen,

Can u explain the latter part as per usurping authority?

I don't support female pastors(elder) BTW.

Thank you my dear sister. Let's get into the root,

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. - 1 Timothy 2:12 http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Ti&c=2&v=12&t=KJV#conc/12

Go to the root of my words (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G831&t=KJV) and we can understand what our Apostle was saying. The word "usurp authority" is the Greek word "authenteō" that means 1) one who with his own hands kills another or himself. 2) one who acts on his own authority, autocratic. 3) an absolute master. 4) to govern, exercise dominion over one.

Off course, the word of God doesn't permit a woman to exercise authority/dominion and act in her own authority without any consultation with her husband; over a man that she's married to. She is to be submissive. It doesn't mean a woman cannot lead God's people in truth and righteousness when she is submissive to her husband. Again, the context of "man" here is to her husband for a womAn cannot be in submission to mEn. The context is singular woman to singular man, not woman to mEn.

advocate666: See what I mean Goshen. Tell me if the above french didn't assault your eyes?

Why you wan carry me and my dear brother head nack each other naw?

Boomark: ^^Oui Goshon, moi too, je ve waité for tua to explique.

Silence means to keep quite.

Silence in this context means "hold your or one's peace". It doesn't connote one to shut up. Letters to the Corinthians church was written as a scroll not, in chapters as we have it now. If silence means keep quite as we have interpreted it to mean, then same Apostle will not later write "Every woman that prays or prophecy..." because both praying and prophesying involves one to talk/speak. Abi na mute activated style praying and prophecy dey happen ni?

truthislight: Care to shade more light to this ^^ statement above?

I notice you have refused to take a definite stance on what you believed the NT/apostles said and there stance.
Please do state your stance and understanding clearly please.
Peace.

My stance keh? We should rather discuss what Apostle Paul meant by "women should be silent" and "women should not teach". If both means women cannot talk/speak, then why would the same Apostle write, "Every woman that prays or prophecy..." because both involves talking/speaking in the church. My stance is very clear only you may not have read me well bro.

Besides, Happy New Year!

advocate666: When Paul said "silence", he didn't mean "silence".
When he said "do not speak", he didn't mean "you should not speak".
When he said "woman", what me meant was far from "woman"

You know say I no like follow Atheists argue....huh? So women that prays, sings and prophecy in church worship don't 'speak'? When did praying, singing and prophesying done without talking/speaking? Huh? Oya come answer kweshion

^^^ Why you no interpret am naw, lolz. Abeg leaf my french jor...lolz.

plappville: My brother they can only discriminate here on earth......The chief speaker will deal with them when the time comes....

Comment ça va mon frère bien aimé en Christ?

My sister, Ouais, je vais bien que vous êtes également profiter de la grâce de Dieu.

Tithing Ended and Abolished in the New Testament

Tithes, Offerings and Firstfruits - Do they apply to us as Christians?

Enjoy!

Boomark: So Paul was discriminating against women when he said what he said?

My brother, kindly pick up a concordance/dictionary and check the meaning of 'silence' in Paul's words and also check the meaning of 'he (Paul) do not suffer a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. Paul wasn't discriminating, we need to understand what he said and tightly divide the word.

Lemme quickly go to that musKeeto's thread (THAT CAN NEVER BE REMOVED, ADDED OR REPLACED) and recommend some best topic(s).

JeSoul: and no, Muskeeto's thread will not be removed.

And did you read the above comment flagged in RED? I no mention your name o and don't 'assume' I was talking to you.

This Gospel of DISCRIMINATION against women in the body of Christ MUST come to an END! You guys need to understand what Apostle Paul was saying before coming out here to talk. Thank you!

Logicboy03: Why not?

It serves as a caveat. A dissenting opinion- sign of tolerance

One atheist asking the sticked thread of another 'half' atheist replaced by his own thread.....signs of tolerance INDEED! #Ah, omo araye

@ musKeeto,

Shey you dey see life as e be? The same person wey you fight for in the past suddenly forgets and wan comot your chair so him go sit down.....na life be that? I know too well my fellow Christians will never do that. It's time you come back home brother - the hand and love of our father will gladly welcome you back home.

^^^ lolz. No mind jare. Just troubleshooting!

He said, "Watch and pray..."

How do you watch with your eyes closed? Person wey them say make him do vigilante dey close eyes?

@ anukulapo,

Okay. I get your teachings. Still from the translations you quoted, let's agree it says 'having something on his head' it still doesn't mention specifically what that 'something' is or should be. You're the one reading that something to be cap/hat. The only thing Paul talked about IN THIS CONTEXT as related to HEAD covering is HAIR. Okay, if you're saying otherwise, kindly confirm if what I extracted from your teachings as below is true:

1. To 'Cover' and 'covering' IS NOT with hair right?
2. Cover = veil
3. If your answer to (2) above is that cover = veil; Cover(ing) for a woman, IS IT TO WEAR or USE A VEIL also?

Is this what you're saying? If not, kindly explain to the above questions then we can continue. Thank you!

nuella2: Personally when i close my eyes during prayer it helps me to be focused and i don't see some distracting activities around me.

God forbid but if you have emergency around you, you won't be distracted?....#Smiling.

Besides, where have you been?

Put Luke 24:27 together with Romans 10:4 and see how it fits into Christ's words. Let's see what you make out of it.

Na so you dey talk. All you have to do is use scriptures to explain scriptures. That's how it goes. Same words of Christ should be used to interpret another statement of his.

Me think if it doesn't have any scriptural backing, then it's a personal issue. it's not a pre-requisite for receiving answers to prayers.

mazaje: The old testament has been replaced by the new testament, and the new testament says Jesus did not come to abolish the law or prophets...

What does Christ's statement mean? And do you try to find (search) out why Jesus said that?

easyresearch: Judaism is a religion of throught and light while sunday worshiper worship sun God.JESUS CHRIST and other Appostle practice Judaism.

...and is Christianity the same as Judaism?