₦airaland Forum

^^^ You're just too RIGHT! Like a wise man always say, "You can't get more than 100% of the whole score". Yours is 100% true! This guys just don't want to leave us alone. BTW, skype me now if you can. I'm home alone and doing nothing.

Your article has many directions but I don't know what angle you want to take discussion from. I kind of agree with almost everything you said. Hence, I do not know if you intend to go further though because you had to stop at a point in order to avoid too many complications.

@ Pastor Kun, Thank you my dear brother. I wasn't even talking to him in the first place. I was talking to mantraa. Yours is funny though. So every where we turn to now, na Atheist. God help us o. Thanks for C-cautioning me though.

Okay.

Goshen360: First my brother, you and who had this conversation? I'm asking because there're so many aspect one can pick up and discuss on.

^^^ It's not my point of view. It's comparing scriptures with scriptures.

^^^ Do you care if I spend my time to explain certain things or truth to you and we can both learn together....provided it will not lead to argument?

First my brother, you and who had this conversation? I'm asking because there're so many aspect one can pick up and discuss on.

OmG! I love Frosbel, Pastor Kun and ezme.

Hey, don't quote me....I can update the list from these three guys and add your I.d o o....

^^^ The link pointed us to the website of the OP perhaps when you/we get there....being the last bus stop to your problem. Hence, other brothers, (striktlymi and I) demanded an explanation from our brother chuks to come explain himself how that is possible. As simple as that my sister.

ProPastorChris: i believe this is this MOG's way of appointing or anointing leaders into positions in his ministry. weird though but cut the guy some slack, you may not know what he knows and if he's a fake, he shall soon be grounded but if he's true, sorry guys, there's nothing you can do to stop his progress.

the Word cannot be handled with lies, no matter how you hide, the lies will be revealed soonest. you cannot deceive everyone all the time.

ochallo: well said

See, you guys need to know something - Everyone in the body of Christ is subject to the word of God and everyone MUST check what is being taught and done. Other wise, everyone will do as they like and eventually we all go out of control. The Berean Christians had to examine what Apostle Paul even taught.

Are you guys saying the MoG has HIS OWN WAY of doing thing contrary to scriptures? C'mom brothers. There's no such thing as doing things your OWN WAY in God's family and kingdom - The bible is our standard. This is not a biblical way of consecrating and anointing ANYONE into ministry or office of Bishop. This is a clear cut of our falsehood is spread. If the Berean Church can put Apostle Paul and his teaching into check, every man of God should be place under the mirror of scripture and examined.

"weird though but cut the guy some slack, you may not know what he knows and if he's a fake, he shall soon be grounded but if he's true, sorry guys, there's nothing you can do to stop his progress"

What does he know that's NOT in scripture? Don't we have the complete revelation in scriptures anymore. You words sound similar to the "Colossian" heresies - That some people have "special" knowledge but Apostle Paul taught that Christ is the complete revelation of God. What does he know that wasn't revealed to him from the word of God and that cannot be verified from the word of God?

Since you admitted his action is weird, why don't you leave it at that basis of truth? Nobody is against his progress in ministry. You're probably bringing in emotions into this matter. God's word doesn't appeal to our emotions. All that is demanded is the scriptural ground for laying on another man in order to anoint or consecrate them for God into ministry. If you care to show us scriptures, you might also consider if those men were to be women, will he have done same thing?

^^^ Exactly my thought. What's happening to our people for Christ's sake? What kind of thing is this? We can even prove from scriptures that being in Christ doesn't mean one will NEVER have one little problem or the other.

Well, it is well.

christemmbassey: @Frosbel & Goshen, with ppl like you guys there is hope for the church in Nigeria, if u must know, christemmbassey is a pastor in living waters, a new church in Calabar, remain blessed.

God willing, I'll love to visit when I'm home....hopefully before the end of this year. Carry on with the Apostolic Grace and teachings. God bless you also sir.

advocate666: That's it then. Nigerian church is doomed then, if these two are your hope.

Satan has already won. Hahaha.

Please don't blow things up here please. He NEVER said ME and FROSBEL, but he said...."people LIKE us..." meaning, not TWO of us BUT of LIKE kinds or people of like manners. Please, allow us to take care of our own business. As you can see, our spirit is subject to one another in this conversation. Don't blow things up here. Thank you.

@ Frosbel, You're most welcome my dear brother. Besides, add goshen360 on Skype and I will accept so we can chat.

Nice video Frosbel.

@ Brother Frosbel,

I think I'll take FULL side with our brother that is gradually becoming part of me just as you Frosbel is part of me, I mean Brother Christemmbassey. See, many of us are loosing sight of what the kingdom of God is all about. One of the keys to vital evangelism in God's family is, "The Gentiles shall SEE your light and SHALL COME TO YOUR LIGHT"....since believers are the LIGHT of the world.

I do not boast in myself by no means. Christ is my righteousness. But truth be told, our house is in a mess. I don't want to split into pieces and amplify what Brother Christemmbassey said but read his words very well and deeply. The only way I can summarize his words is THE BEST FORM OF EVANGELISM IS EVANGELIZING BY YOUR/OUR WAY OF LIFE. Many of us wants to preach Christ that isn't reflecting in our lives. I do not mean we haven't accepted Christ but the world doesn't see Christ-like living in us.

Many times, I look into the canker worm that has eaten so deep into our lives and I cannot be express tears in my heart. Long story short, let it begin with us. Let the Atheist around every Christian see Christ in us and they shall come to our light. Sometimes, I'm also drawn into argument with them on this section but on rare cases. We don't need argument with them on this forum but around us (every Christian), let's the unbelievers see Christ in us, by our lifestyle and good works. This, I believe is the best form of evangelism.

^^^ Please, there're things you need to understand here, I mean as per this thread. It's un-human to act like the man in the story not to talk of being a called 'christian'. We have people of the opposite religion that also kill in the name of boko haram. Shall we then say there're no good one among them? Certainly not. You don't have to distort this thread, please.

Lord have mercy!

debosky: No issues with using study aids - what I am against was the sudden rush that everyone should read 'multiple translations' Greek, Aramaic, etc., and use 'multiple aids' in the first instance. That is wrong - the regularly available translations are sufficiently accurate to give you a good grounding in scripture.

This need to hair split and to be seen as the 'only' right person on every single subject down to the last detail is intellectual elitism and is partly why many people feel unable to understand the scripture and leave it to those who have studied Greek, Aramaic and 100 translations and concordances.

I know there are texts requiring 'critical examination' - but they are not the cause of false doctrines in the main, and this 'critical examination' is not the solution to false doctrines. There is a right time for critical examination, but only after you have built a good foundation. For example, endless debates on the root meaning/source of the word hell is not part of a good foundation!

I am not discouraging study and critical examination in any sense, but it must be put in its place - there is too much intellectualism and 'head knowledge' elitism dressed up as being 'critical examination'.

YOURS IS A BALANCED TRUTH! GOD BLESS YOU MY DEAR BROTHER. THAT'S WHY I LOVE TO FOLLOW YOU AND YOUR THREADS/COMMENTS....AS LONG AS YOU FOLLOW CHRIST. THANK YOU!

^^^ I do understand you perfectly well. However, I think I stand with using study aids in understanding difficult scriptures, not for the easy issues you've pointed out such as the fundamental elements of our faith. You remember when we had to talk about Hebrews 7:8.

I still see it that there're some scriptures (not all cases) that needs critical examination but not the basic ones though. I won't see it wanting to elevate one's self as above others but I'll see it as to better understand the context of the text. It's all of us that can do all the critical studies but we should all be encouraged to do so, if we can. I can give you many instances from scriptures on the need for critical examination of text if you don't mind.

1. This topic had been covered intensively on this section. In fact, it's been over flogged.

2. There's nothing like tithe or tithing for the New Testament Christians or believers. What the New Testament teaches is giving and that could be any percentage, less than or greater than legalistic 10%.

3. Malachi 3:10 is a traditional text used to coerce church people into legalistic tithing. It wasn't referring to you in context but to the priest of those days. They're the ones robbing God.

4. Going by the New Testament definition of temple, Malachi 3:10 is obsolete - You and I are NOW the temple of the living God for God doesn't dwell in temple built with hands.

5. The store house in Malachi is NOT equal to Church today. The store house was a portion INSIDE the temple then in Malachi. There's no New Testament definition of store house AS church.

6. Your man is right in his giving and works of Charity. If he hasn't paid tithe to get his new consultancy job, what makes you think he will pay tithe to retain the blessing or be blessed beyond measure. All my life in studying God's word, I have read God loves a cheerful giver but I'm yet to read where scripture says God loves a cheerful tither because tithe is a MUST but giving is as a man purpose in his heart.

7. God doesn't own ONLY tithe of believers. I hear preachers say, "tithe is God's money". That's false! God owns everything a believer owns. Why? We're JOINT HEIR together with Christ. This applies to everything we own. The money we have is the money God owns. Therefore, God expects us to support missions, our place of worship and the Gospel in whatever capacity we can according to the Grace giving to us financially.

8. Hebrews 7 puts and end to tithing in New Testament.

@ FXKing2012,

I just thought of something now reading your other thread. Here is my question if you/we consider tattoo as a sin.

Do you consider tattoo as a sin NOT UNTO DEATH That's if you/we consider it as a sin.

I'm just asking for purpose of biblical reasoning, no offense please!

^ Yes, brother. No mind him. He insulted me and I gave him a warning never to say such words to me again or else......(the rest na story).

Okay, as per the quarterly, how do we collate it? Do I email you all weekly collations so you can send them here quarterly? or I should post here weekly so you can collate quarterly? Which do you prefer?

Reasons Why Christians Are Falling For False Teachings And Doctrines - Frosbel

^ #Smiles.

Image123: hope nobody's going to give me a dirty slap from behind for posting with efficos.
just wanted to point out that the phrase "FOR a covering" is not the same as "AS a covering". You don't need any links or study materials to see that, do you?

My dear Brother, this is the same thing other Christian brothers are trynna tell you on the other thread: Why many Christians fall for false doctrines. The Bible wasn't originally written in English; it was translated INTO English and other available languages. In the course of translation, some translators "might" loose the original meaning of words and hence, there is need for finding meaning to "uncertain and unsure" words and parallel it within the context. This will do a lot of good than harm. anukulapo accused of puffing of in knowledge the other time. How does one apply or do the word he or she doesn't know or understand? Certainly, there will be wrong application.

THEREFORE, YES, we NEED study materials or aids to better understand the text; of course in conjunction with the SPIRIT of TRUTH. That's what separate the truth from error, by examining the text in its original language. We're only showing the links so as to be transparent in our teaching because here is a public forum.

I was only using the "FOR" and "AS" as covering INTERCHANGEABLY in my "own" words when I replied anukulapo. I never meant it to be changed to "AS", the word in KJV is "FOR" and Ubenedictus also confirmed the concordance translates it "FOR a covering". It's very simple, go to the Greek meaning of "FOR" as used in the context of 1 Cor. 11:15. Here you have it,

"FOR" as used in that context, in English is a preposition. In Greek it is the word "anti" and means,

1) over against, opposite to, before

2) for, instead of, in place of (something)
a) instead of
b) for
c) for that, because
d) wherefore, for this cause.

I will also like to stir you up to challenge you with this scripture though it's not relevant to this topic but just to let you see the need (if you can) for word study in Greek and Hebrew.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. - Luke 14:26

New Living Translation (©2007)
"If you want to be my disciple, you must hate everyone else by comparison--your father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even your own life. Otherwise, you cannot be my disciple.

Oh my God! Are you telling me Christ gave a condition for me to HATE everyone else even my father and mother in order to follow him? Christ must be preaching hatred then. Kindly check the meaning to the word "HATE" as used in this context. That is when the beauty of scriptures come out alive to you.

@ honourhim,

Thanks so much for the indepth contributions. However, in my Op if you read. I mentioned that the tongues in Acts 2 was a well known tongues that was understood by men present.

There's also a praying tongues as revealed in 1 Cor. 14: 2 and 14. It is the tongues with which we talk to God for NO ONE understands such and it is UNKNOWN or NOT UNDERSTOOD by anyone except God, not even the one that prays/speaks in tongues.

Joagbaje: If nothing is wrong with praying cooperately in English why should it be wrong to pray cooperately in other tongues. The early church prayed cooperately in tongues.

Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Joagbaje my brother. Na whao. I do not seek to argue endlessly on this subject. How do you explain the "sign" tongues to praying tongues? What happened on Pentecost though was "corporate" tongue speaking if I may put it that way but it was a well known languages that was never learnt by the Apostles, it was the tongues of men as recorded in 1 Cor. 13:1. You can also read honourhim's post and Acts 2 he quoted up there. The tongues given to us that we speak mystery with when we speak/pray to God is UNKNOWN to NO MAN but ONLY to God, not even the person that speaks or prays in such tongues, 1 Cor. 14:2 and 14.

Joagbaje: Cornelius family also

Acts 10:44-45
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. . . .For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter

Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.,

Again, this is the "first" these people received the Holy Ghost by the laying of hand by the Apostle and the evidence was speaking in tongues are "corporate" if you choose, I agree. These people never went about speaking everywhere after this account. Again, I personally do not know weather the tongues spoken by these people were the KNOWN tongues like the day of Pentecost or the praying tongues as in 1 Cor. 14:2, 14. However, I "assume" it's the KNOWN tongues because the Gospel just started spreading then in Acts and such KNOWN tongues was needed to spread the Gospel in ALL languages.

It's just like you and I, the first time we received the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. The teachings in 1 Corinthians 14 is mainly on the correction to the Abuse of tongues in worship places if examined/studied critically. Why pray/speak in tongues when you can't interpret neither does anyone understand you except God? This is what Paul was saying? It doesn't profit the whole church rather, prophecy does. I advice you kindly read/study the passage from many translations to better understand the subject. Thank you sir.

anukulapo: Note that this study is not an isolation of verse 15 because the word “cover” (and other related forms) appears in other verses too. Except you want to say that cover and covering have different meanings and not state (as in verb/noun)

Thanks for the reply. First, I do not lay claim to omniscience in anything I teach but still seek after perfection that I may be a servant of Christ. The word "cover" and "covering" as you mentioned are NOT in isolation of verse 14-15 as you mentioned. Maybe it's the way we understand things and I do not say they have different meaning.

anukulapo: The two dictionaries I have (smith’s handi reference bible dictionary and Holman illustrated bible dictionary) refers to covering as with veil. I don’t have more than two. If you have another that says otherwise, let me know. I go find person wey get am even if I no fit buy am.

Okay. I have Strong's concordance (hardcopy) and The Complete Word Study New Testament By Spiros Zodhiates (hardcopy) which I gave the link before: (http://www.christianbook.com/the-complete-word-study-new-testament/spiros-zodhiates/9780899576510/pd/71843?product_redirect=1&Ntt=71843&item_code=&Ntk=keywords&event=ESRCP). Checking the link, click on "Additional Views" at the buttom of the front page in order to see the content. Also, the "Complete Word Study New Testament" IS THE SAME AS THIS STUDY SOFTWARE, THE SAME: http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.cfm
(At least, you can check for yourself online version)

In this study aids, "covering" in verse 15 is translated as 1) a covering thrown around, a wrapper. a) a mantle. b) a veil.

Here, I opened the verse: http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Cr&c=11&v=15&t=KJV#conc/15

Here, I opened the word meaning for covering: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4018&t=KJV

Now if the word covering is translated as above and the verse says,

But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for [her] hair is given her for a covering. - 1 Cor. 11:15.

It's therefore self explanatory and re-read thus:

But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for [her] hair is given her for a covering thrown around/a wrapper/mantle/a veil. - 1 Cor. 11:15.

She already have a covering which is her LONG HAIR thrown around, as a wrapper, as mantle and as veil. How can something be given by nature as a veil for cover(ing) and one is still seeking another cover(ing)? The veil here is not to cover her from head to toe unlike that of the temple mentioned in Matthew 27:51, KJV.

This also follows ALL TRANSLATIONS to be TRUE and correct. ALL TRANSLATIONS available, especially the ones that says it different from the usual KJV translation that, "the (long) hair is given to her for a covering". They ALL have it that the long hair of a woman serves as or has been given by nature in place of the veil, (mantle, covering thrown around and wrapper...if you would). Check all translations available to us today from these three bible websites:

http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/11-15.htm

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2011:15&version=KNOX

http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.cfm

@ Joagbaje, Please can you point us to the verse(s) that encourages 'corporate' speaking in tongues without the gift of interpretation?

@ Zikky and HumbledbYGrace,

Dear brother and sister, I can't figure out what was going in that gathering o.

Tgirl4real: @ Goshen,

I don't agree that there is such a tongue that can't be understood. ICor 14: 10 n 13 makes that clear.

What Apostle Paul was doing in verse 10-11 was analogy of natural or earthly languages and using it to explain that if someone is speaking an earthly language and the other person doesn't understand it, what is the usefulness of such. He then says in verse 12, "And the same is true for you. Since you are so eager to have the special abilities the Spirit gives, seek those that will strengthen the whole church". I don't think he's saying by the verses you refer to that there's no such tongue that can't be understood because he says in verse 2, "...speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you..."

Tgirl4real: U guys also forget that tongues is a gift of the Spirit as listed in 1Cor 12 and all the gifts of Spirit are given for the common good and not for personal edification.

It's selfish to seek for personal edification of a gift that is given for the general edification of the body.

Yours in this statement is ETERNAL TRUTH. Exactly the goal and purpose of Apostle in this letter, chapter 14 here. The speaking in tongues as taught by Apostle Paul here without interpretation doesn't benefit the whole body gathered in worship but the one who speaks/pray in such tongues and to himself and to God. Hence, there's need to hold the tongues speaking if there's no interpretation. Yours is true to the words of the Apostle.