₦airaland Forum

Image123: don't you think the oyel should be sold and given to the poor? i may need an elder to help pour the oyel for my mouth IF i sick, since na elder suppose pour the thingy.

As una don dey violate elder requirement to anoint with the oil, you sef fit use am by yourself, e no make any meaning anymore since una no follow the elders before. Una oga don give una permission without any elder long ago. I hope say u never start dey follow drink oyel sha .....

@ Mr Anony, my dear brother

I do not think you should argue or debate this issue. The point here is, weekdays time (not after work period, say like after 7/8pm) is meant for work period. No body say Churches should not hold service during the weekdays but the time of the weekdays is the issue here except such service is meant for unemployed who do not have job, people like me, being jobless..... . It is totally wrong to schedule Christian midweek service during members' work hours and some foolish members trying to please God and their pastor, forcing themselves to attend and loosing the job. This is the main point.

^^^ , probably because they don't even understand what rebellion means or they just want to be manipulative deliberately. Rebellion is NOT contradicting scripture to suite a leader or pastor. That is witchcraft in operation! We obey God's authority when it doesn't disobey God or contradict scriptures.

[quote author=Bélla3]thank God i no b first born. Hehehe. For my church there is a day dedicated to first borns to band and cast the curses. Hahaha plus first born offerings.[/quote]We do not have such practices in the new testament. It's all manipulative and means of extortion.

The curse began with a tree in Eden and ended on a tree at Calvary.......Glory to God!

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree: - Galatians 3:13

If we understand "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law". We should also understand, "[Christ] being made a curse for us" and much more, it had ended on the tree at Calvary! Christ had even fulfilled the "firstborn" shadows....because he became the "firstborn from the dead". Glory to God!

@ OP, Like you said, it is not the pastor that told him to sow the car as a seed. Giving can be anything! In this case of your husband, it is scriptural and sacrificial. Although, it might mean a pain but that is what sacrificial giving is all about.....every man as he purpose in his heart. Your reward will sure come in due season. Glory to God!

^^^ He went to prepare more.....we dey here dey wait for him sha. Image123 my dearest,

Image123: the Bible says so.

......waiting for quote from corinthians thereafter......wahala dey oo.........

@ Image123, You know say I get Colgate toothpaste and you have oil, no need for holy water. Use my Colgate and your oil to brush your teeth.......It will be whiter than snow after using both......

Now, I know you know the scripture and before you start to quote the scripture and say, "Are we suppose to now tear the OT out of the Bible?" - No, the Bible says,

New International Version (©1984)
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. - Romans 15:4

To teach us in what sense, where some people fell, we should not fall in same manner. What some didn't do right, we should do right etc.

It also says,

New Living Translation (©2007)
All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. - II Timothy 3:16

So when we teach and correct, we can quote from both old and new testament establishing a biblical truth. It does not mean that Christians are BINDING to OBEY and FOLLOW the OLD TESTAMENT. If Christians are to follow the old testament, we will be following the shadows, leaving out the substance and building on empty hopes.

God cancelled the old in order to establish the new. Christians are under the New Covenant and are NOT binding on the OLD which was ONLY between God and National Israel then. Even to the National Israel, the OLD is gone! Christians are NOT suppose to obey ANY JEWISH LAW OR REGULATIONS,

New Living Translation (©2007)
When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear. - Hebrews 8:13

New Living Translation (©2007)
Even that question came up only because of some so-called Christians there--false ones, really--who were secretly brought in. They sneaked in to spy on us and take away the freedom we have in Christ Jesus. They wanted to enslave us and force us to follow their Jewish regulations. - Galatians 2:14....meaning the Gentile Christians are NOT suppose to follow the Jewish regulations according to this scriptures.

Today, my heart bleeds when I see (or hear) how pastors confuse baby Christians and manipulate scriptures (especially in Nigeria where anything goes) in order to extort them. Don't let any pastor confuse you in mixing the old and the new testament together. Christ is the mediator of the new covenant and he has to come and die for the New Testament to be established. The New Testament is where we Christian belongs. Whatever is NOT found practiced under the New Covenant should be rejected.

Thank you and God bless you.

@ omiobo (whatever that means, lolz)....

So we just rely on these your testimonies just because it works right You should also be reminded that Cele people take customers to the river to bath and have testimonies, those that make such practices right Don't get me wrong, I'm not against use of oil if USED within scriptural context. It becomes an abuse of the oil when we hold special anointing service and even selling oil for money.

How many anointing service did the Apostles ever organized Who and who did the Apostles ever gave oil to How many oil did the Apostle and Jesus sold The oil is as a symbol of the Holy Spirit just like the dove, Is the Holy Spirit oil or dove itself If the Holy Spirit is oil and dove, then Jesus will be a lamb on four legs....

What am I saying, there is a place for oil but within the context of biblical use. The Holy Spirit has come to dwell in the believers, there is less or no more need for shadows.

I'll be right back if need be.....

Image123: Goshy Goshy, na wa oo. If it's tithe and offering, you'll argue that everybody is on the same level. Now na annoything oil, you dey recognize your elders. i dey feel you.

No be from you I learnt the trick for the trade.....Abi you don forget say everybody is learning something good or bad.....I dey enjoy your grove bro.....

First, the Bible as whole is written to two major groups but basically three and are,

1. The Jews or National Israel
2. The Gentiles or Non-National Israel
3. Christians, which are both Jews and Gentiles who both make up the church of God

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: I Corinthians 10:32

The bible also make it very clear that the Gentiles are NOT in the first covenant or Old covenant WHICH WAS ONLY BETWEEN GOD AND THE JEWS because Christ had not come to die and include the Gentiles in the covenant of God.

New Living Translation (©2007)
That first covenant between God and Israel had regulations for worship and a place of worship here on earth. Hebrews 9:1

Also, the Bible refer to many thing under the Old Covenant (OC) as type and shadows in which they were pointing to Christ and God teaching his redemption plan. They are not meant to be mistaken as the substance of Faith.

New Living Translation (©2007)
The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship. Hebrews 10:1

...to be continued

I had been thinking of a right time to do this kind of thread but I guess it came at a time such as this and due to the story below culled from this thread,

User I.d Todaynatoday on this forum wrote and I quote,

"Men, this just reminded me of a day a pastor said that all first borns are cursed and that we would need to pay 1,365 naira to be purged of the curse. He used Numbers 3:49-50 as basis for his claim. He said that we needed redemption.

49 So Moses collected the redemption money from those who exceeded the number redeemed by the Levites. 50 From the firstborn of the Israelites he collected silver weighing 1,365 shekels, according to the sanctuary shekel.


hahahahahahaha, I laughed in my mind, I won't fall for this. Firstly, how did the pastor think that 1,365 shekels if converted would be 1,365 naira. Secondly, that part of the Bible was referring to the first born of the Israelites who exceeded the number of Levites and had to be redeemed. Thirdly, I AM NOT CURSED! The pastor continued, "you must bring it this night, if it is not with you now, go home and bring it!" I was like "which kind yeye interpretation of scriptures be dis? I no go pay anything"

But alas! Before I knew it, firstborns in the church began to come out with their 1,365 naira. I was furious to say the least but to top it all (me wey say i no go pay come follow pay). My mum (who is the first daughter in her family) went home to bring the money (she's always complaining of no money but yet bkus of what the pastor said she had to "find" the money for me) and she brought it to me. I was so surprised at how quickly she got the money, (I wasn't even expecting it. We wey no even 2 get money) she gave it to me to go and pay and I told her plainly that I would not go (mhen, come & see shouting from her and the other church members "dis boy wetin dey do u sef, u no go obey ya mama? Go pay d tin" u no hear pastor?) I stood my ground and refused to pay (na dat time all of dem come multiply and enhance their shouting "go na(100x)" ) that's when i stood up and went to pay (after dropping the money, he "prayed" for the curse to go away, then I furiously stormed outta the church) I explained the verse later to her at home and she was sorry she paid (well, in a way but she still thought that the pastor didn't do anything wrong)"

...to be continue in the next post

^^^....and it has to be retained by force by fire....plus manipulative skilled buried with greed. We don't have Levites in the Ministry Gifts of the New Testament.

babaearly: Tpia is an ugly old lady, well mid 40's,post menopause era.

I reject that for my dearest sister. I reject it by force and by fire. #EvenMeSefDeyEyeHerButAsMuskeeNaMyGoodBrotherNaEimMakeMeLeafHer4Muskee,Shhhhhh NoLetMuskeeHearThisTalkMakeWeBothNoStartDeyQuarrelWhoGoWinCarryTpiaGo#.....She is a pretty lady and though. I like though ladies anyway......

Joagbaje: Stop playing with semantics . The discuss is not on institution of tithing as you seem to be manipulating it here to mean. It's about the Levitical priesthood vs christ in the order of Melchi.

[size=20pt]Dissanuling commandment is not abou tithes but entire Levitical priesthood. The commandments being referred to is the entire structure or system . So stop playing on words.[/size]

But you are the one in error here. Humble yourself and stop boasting , it's a discussion not a fight . Learn to ask yourself "I MAY JUST BE WRONG"

Look at this scripture and tell us/me that the "commandment" in context is NOT to "receive tithe" according to verse 5

[size=20pt]Commandment being dissannulled is the Jewish law with regards to perfecting people[/size] . Not necesarilly the content of the law except the things which were shadow of christ. The rest has nothing wrong in themselves . All these apart. Levitical structure was only an interruption in time. Tithing and other principles which pre existed the law.

Joagbaje, YOU JUST SHOT YOURSELF IN THE LEG BY THE ABOVE STATEMENT! On the first emboldened you said, "...but entire Levitical priesthood. The commandments being referred to is the entire structure or system". This is to expose how you manipulate the word to justify tithe because your organization does not because you don't know the truth. Now tell us, if the entire Levitical priesthood is what you just declared as disannulled, Hebrews 7:5 tells us that this Levitical Priesthood have the commandment to take tithe, HOW DOES ONLY THE TITHE REMAIN WHEN THE ENTIRE LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD AND THE COMMANDMENT/STRUCTURE/SYSTEM ON WHICH THEY OPERATE IS DISANNULLED Kindly tell us how and why ONLY the tithe remains.

On the second emboldened, you agreed that the commandment IS A JEWISH LAW with regards to perfecting the people. Here you agree it is a JEWISH LAW as it relates to perfecting the JEWISH PEOPLE. Even the Jews are NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES ANYMORE not to talk of Christians who were NEVER for once under the dispensation of the Law. If it is a Jewish law, and on your other thread you authoritatively declared in this open forum that the LAW HAS BEEN ABOLISHED, How and why is is ONLY the tithe is NOT ABOLISHED

Do yourself good explaining to our viewers.........

The oil usage and/or anointing is ONLY scriptural when used within the scriptural context. Dedicating a "special service" to oil wherein church people are asked to bring bottle of oil is nothing than a ritual and herbalistic practice in the body of Christ. It is not different from going to herbalist and get something to use. Now, I know you know the scripture but let's stay in context here.

First, Matthew 25:3 reads,

New International Version (©1984)
The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them.

Second, Mark 6:13

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.

Third,

New International Version (©1984)
Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. - James 5:14

The oil is a symbol and signifies the Holy Spirit. Isaiah 61:1. In the scriptural verses of Matthew and Mark quoted above, the oil was symbol of the Holy Spirit for the Holy Spirit had not yet come until after the death of Christ. The story of shows believers need the Holy Spirit. The story of healing by the disciples shows AFTER demons are cast out of the possessed, they will need the Holy Spirit, otherwise, they will be open to another demonic possession.

The very case of James that many people quote and misapply out of context says,

Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. - James 5:14

Simple instruction - Call the elders! Today, everyone carry bottle of oil in their bags and wallets. Special anointing oil is conducted with special emphasis on oil from Israel in some cases. Some drink oil. Some Pastors sell "special oil" and all sort of madness going on with mere oil. In James 5:15, it is clearly written, NOT the oil that later saves the sick BUT RATHER THE PRAYER OF FAITH.

Lemme stop here for now so I don't worn you out with too many words......

Bidam: @OP.. the OIL works and scriptures validate it. Don't only use it in church go out and preach the gospel and anoint the sick with oil..use it to cast out devils..and by that you are advancing God's kingdom..peace

At least before you make such statement, you should have asked the OP if he is an elder.

New International Version (©1984)
Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. - James 5:14

This is the clear picture of abuse we are talking about....with this kind of statement of yours, you can even tell the OP to drink the oil.

Guitarlife: If we go over snowwys post, we realise the bible said the elders should anoint 'the sick'. Just like jo affirmed, the anointing with oil is rather MEDICATIVE and not MIRACLATIVE or in any way spiritual. Back then oil was rather a medication to speed up the recovery of a sick man. ( I mean the use of oil as stated in that passage is as a medication more like, 'if any of you has headache let him call the elders and they give him paracetamol ').
That is the reason why the latter part affirmed that 'the prayer of faith willl heal the sick' .Now we find even people who are not sick in any form being annointed with oil when we know it's quite misleading.
The arguement that it builds faith is quite heretic too. Where does the bible affirm that heretic practices build faith ?
Young christians faith should be built on scriptural and sound doctrine not that we will continue to mislead them and claim we are building there faith.
People need to understand that the heart of a king is the lords like proverbs said and it is only God that can turn it.
It is the deficiency in sound doctrine that has led to people needing physical things to build faith. If we spent more time in rightly dividing the word and debunking all heresies like this, christians faiht wouldn't need no panel beating in the first place.
Why is it that most things that generate funds for the church are being abused with reckless abandon? If you are a pastor and you have been misleading your congregation know that on the judgement day you will be held accountable. You can continue rationalising so that your earnings will not drop but believe me you shall be held accountable.o

So much zeal without knowledge I tell ya.

You are well taught in the things of the Spirit

^^^Lemme pretend you are not talking to me.......

Cherish100: Once attended a church where offering was done about 7 times. There was general offering, seed offering, harvest offering, tithe and offering, etc. and the pastor made it seem like if you didn't put the offerings, you wouldn't be blessed. Everyone looked around to see who was putting offering and the 'bad apple' that wasn't. Worse, members showed no love. It was just eye service and more like who drove the flashiest car, who made the biggest pledge. It was all so irritating. During a crusade in church, the General Overseer came and kept talking about how Governors, Ministers and top politicians were looking for him. How he prayed for a Governor and he was re-elected. Then, he brought out hankerchiefs to be sold for 100k or was it 50k, saying using it would cause you to prosper and all that. You need to have seen how people qeued to buy a handkerchief that costs not more than 50 naira in the market. My mother went up to the pastor and requested she be given one, as she didn't have money to pay. In the end, I used the handkerchief to clean catarrgh and never bothered washing it. I'm sure most of the people who used their hard-earned money to purchase that face-wipe aren't richer than they were. God's blessings cannot be bought and let no preacher confuse you otherwise.

at the emboldened. When we continue to attack of these ritualistic practices in the church, some will misunderstand us, thinking we are enemies of the church. All these practices are simply not the core of our faith and calling!

Joagbaje: What is annulled is the justification by the deeds of the law. The law was not bad in itself. But when a man seek to be made right with God by the law. He falls from grace.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

First, the scripture you quoted by yourself has nothing to do with "commandment". It is doing the law and thinking one can be made righteous by doing the law. Why would Paul say such? Because the law was until faith should come. Now that faith had come and people still continue in the law thinking they will be earn God's justification and/or blessing is what Romans 3:20 remains in its context.

Second. You peddled the word with your manipulative interpretation bringing up Romans 3:20 which has NOTHING whatsoever to do with "commandment". What is a "commandment"?

The Greek word entolē translates as commandment. It means the following,

1) an order, command, charge, precept, injunction

a) that which is prescribed to one by reason of his office

2) a commandment

a) a prescribed rule in accordance with which a thing is done

1) a precept relating to lineage, of the Mosaic precept concerning the priesthood

2) ethically used of the commandments in the Mosaic law or Jewish tradition.......culled from here

A commandment MUST involve an order or instruct to DO SOMETHING. In this case, Hebrews 7:5 says the "commandment" is TO RECEIVE OR TAKE TITHE FROM THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL ACCORDING TO THE LAW.

And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

This is the commandment! The same commandment when traced back goes to Numbers 18 which confirms it is "according to the law (of Moses)".

Hebrews 7:18 in context reads,

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

English Standard Version (©2001)
For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness

Joagbaje, I will preach it until truth hit you and Christ alone be formed in you. Look at this scripture and tell us/me that the "commandment" in context is NOT to "receive tithe" according to verse 5

Sirniyeh: .
It is not a surprise as we all know that we have some educated illiterates parading themselves as children of God. If you dont have answer to the questions asked, why opening your stinking mouth abusing. Dog who dares to lost will not hearken to the hunter's whistle.
Is church activity an excuse to come late to your secular job? This is crucial point of discussion to aid the opening of the eyes of understanding of people like you. The lady was sack, who is next? It could be foolish you. Is the sack a good testimony for a such christian?
Ah, many people perish for the lack of understanding. Goshen, repent and accept the truth before you explode in....!

Abeg no vex na..... Me and you get quarrel before Anyway, the person who understood me has spoken,

babaearly: @sirniyeh
goshen was talking in codes.

Do you understand now.....I'll ignore your insult anyway....

Joagbaje: What is annulled is the justification by the deeds of the law. The law was not bad in itself. But when a man seek to be made right with God by the law. He falls from grace.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Righteousness of God is revealed by faith. It's a gift ,not by obeying commandments .seeking righteousness or justification by is done away . Even though The law it's self it's not a problem. Apostles often quoted from the law. Why should the quuote obsolete material.

The part of the law that are done away with are the part Jesus fulfilled . But Gods principles revealed in the law are eternal.

I'll expose you in a minute.....just hold on, okay.

Joagbaje: Neither did it mention end to tithing

Then what EXACTLY was SET ASIDE and ANNULLED Or better still, what exactly is the "former commandment" that was set aside. We need answers please.

These were old testament practices. If you say the the law been done away with, all theses practices should be done away with as well.

How many times are do we have to repeat it that praying in the NT is not based on OT; so are giving, worship etc. Are you so deluded you can't comprehend simple point made here

@ Brother Zikky,

Good job. Keep the good work and God bless you. Your patient is commended. I'm already weary of argument with our tithe brothers even at the very face of clear scriptures that ended tithe. God bless you.

^^^You don start abi.....

^^^
Don't mind him jare my dear....he likes you but doesn't know how to say it in the open forum like this. I'm speaking on his behalf.You know say him na musKee and want to bite you but you go slap any musKee that attempts to bite you, lolz....#HeOnceToldMeHeWasEyeingYou,shhhhh,Don'tTellHimIToldYou#.....

Snowwy: It's ok Goshen.
I do not need your commendation. I simply stated that it can be abused
Just like every other good thing gets abused.
I left a note to be wary however of those against it's use in other words especially with the scriptures were it showed it's use.

You came along guns blazing that I was referring to you. Fine, it is an issue of guilty conscience worrying you, simple.
The message was clear enough.

On the bold above; then, you should have understood it is the abuse I was against, NOT whether or not to use it. Simple! If you have issues with that, that is your personal business. I'm not going to continue going in circle with you. Whether guilty conscience or not, let your conscience judge you if you aren't referring to me in directly, that in itself is a "polite insult". It's okay, there is no beef in the things of God.

^^^
Let your conscience also be the your judge if you weren't referring to me indirectly and When you throw "polite" insult at me indirectly. Again, I was the major poster in that thread and what I was against is the abuse of oil - In the case where a special service is dedicated to oil, there is no such practice in the scripture. People these people are not taught the purpose of oil, they have gone abusing the purpose. I commended you first words spoken in wisdom, when you said; "everything can be abused". Why are you not talking about that? That means I'm totally against the abuse NOT the use of oil when used within the scope of scripture.

You also said "some people claim to know more that scripture when it is very clear". I'm sorry to say this, I think you still issue with scriptural comprehension before you go ahead thinking I claim to know it all. So when scripture talked about oil usage, does it encourage the abuse of such usage

@ tpia1 and musKeeto......make una no le' me open thread and join ya both in marriage o.....ya both will make a perfect couple...... ...... And make una stop this cat and dog style before I start dey bind and loose now....