₦airaland Forum

^
So if you ask me, na who I go ask?

Abeg leave matter for Mathias,lolz. We know in part and we understand in part. I have taken side with you on this Trinity matter IF only your believe is that, Jesus is NOT Yahweh. This is very clear from the scriptures. Yahweh is God, Jesus is God and Holy Spirit is God but they are distinct and that is even the more reason we have 3 persons in Trinity. This is very simple, If Jesus is same Yahweh, then we will NOT have Trinity, we should be talking about Twonity. That is what I believe the saying of Jesus is Yahweh will interpret.

@ flourishG,

You and this your copy and paste tithe heresy. You better stop following all these tithe false teachers rather than going to a website and pasting one "yeye" article from there. I found out the website you copied and pasted this heresy from. I don't even need to debate you anymore. However, if you want to discuss it since you copied and pasted what you agree with, then you might want to discuss it, I don't mind. But, my advice for you is to repent because you are spreading false teaching like someone said and you will be held accountable on the day of judgment for following to twist God's word to fit the "money" version of tithing.

God bless you.

Smh.....I have told you many times and will repeat it again, I will take you up the day I have you time. All I will do is create a thread for only you and I, just one day anyway because I will not let your waste my precious time for another day. yeyenatu, @ logicboy palasa

I can later modify any of the thread or comments to add the links where those comments are quoted from Or I can still quote any of the threads here and just add the link of the other thread where I quoted from. In this case, I will "modify" in order to add the links of where those comments were quoted from.

garyarnold: ONE OF THE WORST CRIMES OF ALL TIME:
1 - It is done by pastors who are trusted to be honest and right, and done in the name of Jesus.
2 - It is legal only because the government (in the US) can't interfere with religious beliefs, and the pastor only need claim he is teaching his beliefs.
3 - It has spread world-wide and this crime has more victims than any other that I know of.
4 - Those who have been scammed almost always take sides with the scammer.
5 - It's a crime where the victim thinks he/she is the beneficiary, not the victim.
6 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that the victim falls for the same scam every week, week after week, month after month, year after year, and never even questions the scammer.
7 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that most church goers will yell AMEN!
8 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that most church goers believe their pastor is the best pastor around. Their pastor really knows the truth. They trust and believe everything he says.
9 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that the victims convince others to join in and be a victim like they are, all the time thinking they are the beneficiary.
10 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that the victim thinks they are robbing God if they don't comply with the scam.
11 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed it is very difficult to convince the victim that they have been a victim.

The crime? Pastors teaching that God requires Christians to tithe to the church. With tithing, the victim is so ignorant of the truth, they have no clue they've been a victim. And if and when the tithing scam victims realize they are victims, there is really nothing they can do about it. The scammer keeps the money.

Comments quoted from this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/959119/ten-10-reasons-tithe

This is better. I have quote "garyarnold" from another thread and also added my comments

That's it

I have gone to search for the comment I want to quote. I have copied the comments and written the user i.d of who made the comment. Now am back to this thread. All I have to do is hit the "Quote Post" of any body here in this thread and I will have this:

quote author=Goshen360]Am going to quote another person's comment from another thread and do the same.[/quote

I have quoted myself in this case and that is why you "quote author=Goshen360".

If I had quoted another person, it will show that person's user id instead of mine. Okay. Then, I will "edit" only that user i.d and replace with whoever I had gone to quote, in this case, "garyarnold"

quote author=garyarnold]Am going to quote another person's comment from another thread and do the same.[/quote

You don't have to remove the opening and ending "[ ]". I have done that just to show how to do it and so that the quote will not take effect for the sake of show you how, okay.

Next, is to place the quote you have gone to copy from somewhere in-between "] ... [" as shown below:

garyarnold: ONE OF THE WORST CRIMES OF ALL TIME:
1 - It is done by pastors who are trusted to be honest and right, and done in the name of Jesus.
2 - It is legal only because the government (in the US) can't interfere with religious beliefs, and the pastor only need claim he is teaching his beliefs.
3 - It has spread world-wide and this crime has more victims than any other that I know of.
4 - Those who have been scammed almost always take sides with the scammer.
5 - It's a crime where the victim thinks he/she is the beneficiary, not the victim.
6 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that the victim falls for the same scam every week, week after week, month after month, year after year, and never even questions the scammer.
7 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that most church goers will yell AMEN!
8 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that most church goers believe their pastor is the best pastor around. Their pastor really knows the truth. They trust and believe everything he says.
9 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that the victims convince others to join in and be a victim like they are, all the time thinking they are the beneficiary.
10 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that the victim thinks they are robbing God if they don't comply with the scam.
11 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed it is very difficult to convince the victim that they have been a victim.

The crime? Pastors teaching that God requires Christians to tithe to the church. With tithing, the victim is so ignorant of the truth, they have no clue they've been a victim. And if and when the tithing scam victims realize they are victims, there is really nothing they can do about it. The scammer keeps the money.

Comments of "garyarnold" quoted from this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/959119/ten-10-reasons-tithe

Then check and if all is okay, hit the "Submit" button

Am going to quote another person's comment from another thread and do the same.

Goshen360: My brother,

It's NOT the doctrine of Trinity that has problem. Trust me when I tell you something. I am NOT claiming to "know" ALL but one thing I do. Before I swallow any teaching, I check very well. Trinity is a bible doctrine (from Genesis to revelation) BUT the way "many or some" people explain it makes it complicated and difficult to understand. If Jesus emptied himself of divinity and left the memory in heaven, how come he told the Jews who don't believed him but hold on to the believe of their father Abraham that, "before Abraham was, I am". In this text, he remembered his divinity. We can pull out many scriptures to refute that teachings.

However, Trinity is NOT a man-made doctrine, It is BIBLE doctrine. The way we explain it differs though. Also, many of us simple don't know the principles of BIBLE INTERPRETATION. When you interpret the bible, you don't "spiritualize" the TEXT. You can spiritualize the TEXT when you apply the TEXT to your life. It is because people spiritualize the TEXT is the reason for many confusion and distortions of ONE bible. Imagine we have ONE bible and people say MANY things on/from one bible. We can prove Trinity since the bible says prove "ALL" things and hold fast to that which is good but our explanation must be made simple. I believe in "Trinity". Jesus is God. The Father is God. Holy Spirit is God. They are ONE as Unity, NOT as Entity and distinct from the other, not the SAME (ONE) splited into THREE. Jesus as God is NOT the same as the Father and the Father is NOT Jesus and the Holy Spirit is NOT Jesus neither the Father.

This quote of mine was from this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/960192/kenotic-doctrine-vs-trinity-doctrine

This is one of my comments from another thread. I will modify this comment later to give you the link from where I got quoted this comment from, okay.

First, I will go to the thread I wish to quote from.

Second, I will highlight and copy the comment I wish to quote

Third, I will return to the current thread I wish to place the quote I copied.

Four. I will "quote" anyone in the current thread I wish to place the quote

Five I will edit the name of who I quoted in the current thread to the name of whom it was quoted from

Six, I will hit the submit button

Am going to show the practical steps below in many examples. watch this below:

This just came to my mind as I was thinking through some of my friends good and powerful statement. So I thought of helping to share how one can quote comments from one thread to another, NOT within same thread which many of us know how to do but many of us don't know how to quote someone's comment or our own past comments from "another" thread to a current thread we want to contribute to. I hope to show us a step-by-step how to quote from another thread.

Am going to us one or more of my own comments from another thread or some of my friend's comments from another thread to show how you can quote from another thread.

Deep Sight: ^^^ Beginning of foolishness, if you believe the above.

What is foolishness in that if he believes that. You are not a Christian, are you?

garyarnold: ONE OF THE WORST CRIMES OF ALL TIME:
1 - It is done by pastors who are trusted to be honest and right, and done in the name of Jesus.
2 - It is legal only because the government (in the US) can't interfere with religious beliefs, and the pastor only need claim he is teaching his beliefs.
3 - It has spread world-wide and this crime has more victims than any other that I know of.
4 - Those who have been scammed almost always take sides with the scammer.
5 - It's a crime where the victim thinks he/she is the beneficiary, not the victim.
6 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that the victim falls for the same scam every week, week after week, month after month, year after year, and never even questions the scammer.
7 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that most church goers will yell AMEN!
8 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that most church goers believe their pastor is the best pastor around. Their pastor really knows the truth. They trust and believe everything he says.
9 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that the victims convince others to join in and be a victim like they are, all the time thinking they are the beneficiary.
10 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that the victim thinks they are robbing God if they don't comply with the scam.
11 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed it is very difficult to convince the victim that they have been a victim.

The crime? Pastors teaching that God requires Christians to tithe to the church. With tithing, the victim is so ignorant of the truth, they have no clue they've been a victim. And if and when the tithing scam victims realize they are victims, there is really nothing they can do about it. The scammer keeps the money.

These words of yours are soooooo powerful in such a way that, I don't know which one is more powerful than the other. Hence, I take the handful of ALL by quoting ALL. These words are strong words for thought. God bless you for these great words.

ijawkid: Although I haven't seen or heard of the word "" GOD the SON"" in d bible b4,[size=15pt]I know and believe that Jesus is divine or a God..[/size]

[size=15pt]END OF DISCUSSION IF YOU BELIEVE THE ABOVE.[/size]

haibe: Firstly i will say you haven't read ijawkid's post well and no one is saying the Fada, Son and Holy spirit is one person, we have said it several times in this thread that they are 3 persons distinct from each other but co-equal and co-eternal.
Secondly without Jesus there is no almighty God at hall, without the holy Spirit or the Father there is no God almighty. You can call either of the persons in the Godhead God almighty.. Get it

Okay, I get you now. Am very clear as to what you are saying. Very clear enough now but if you say they co-equal, how do you explain the below:

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1 Cor. 11:3 kjv

However, I want you to realize that Christ has authority over every man, a husband has authority over his wife, and God has authority over Christ. 1 Cor. 11:3 GWT

I want to reason with you as to your statement that you can call either of the 3 persons in the Godhead God Almighty. Can you kindly explain this statement in line with the verse above, 1 Cor. 11:3. However, I "think" I have the answer to what am asking you but I want to hear from you.

ijawkid: @goshen.....

Do u believe mary is the mother of almighty God(Yahweh=Jesus=holyspirit) ??

Trinity can get us crazy bro.....
Lol....

The implications of believin in d trinity is so absurd and thus leads to more heresy .......

I have said here my stand on Trinity in line with my understand about the word, "God". I don't believe Jesus, though is God is the same as Almighty (in this context, the Father). I believe they are distinct from one another. Jesus being God to manifest as man in flesh, has to be born by a woman as prophesied in Genesis as the seed of the woman. That is why the bible says, "the Word became or was made flesh". It didn't say the "seed of Joseph, otherwise the prophesy of virgin birth in Isaiah will be rubbish. So to answer your question, Mary is the Mother of God (Jesus in this case) but Mary is NOT the mother of God, the Father because the Father didn't manifest but the son, the son came to show us the Father. I believe I answered you question.

[There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:4-6

One Lord here is Christ. One God here is the Father as clearly seen. I am sick and tired of people calling God the Father as same as Jesus Christ even though Jesus is also God from other text. It is very clear they are different.

haibe: Forget the upper or lower case issue from my posts you should understand that i support the Word and Spirit to be God. That's by the way, the Word was the Son now and the God the word was with is the Father.

Well, in that case, you agree the God-the Father is and also distinct from the Word who is also God. Do you agree that they are different though they are God or you believe the Word who is God also is same as God-the Father?.

nyameke: Ok so let's talk my Christian brother what's your understanding of it

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily Col. 2:9 kjv

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1 Cor. 11:3 kjv

However, I want you to realize that Christ has authority over every man, a husband has authority over his wife, and God has authority over Christ. 1 Cor. 11:3 GWT

Godhead depends on the context in the bible. Godhead as used in Col. 2:9 simply means Jesus is God manifest or visible in the flesh because no man has seen God the Father. It means Deity. It means Christ is the visible expression of God, that is Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. He is NOT God as a man, as human being, other wise he will NOT die for God cannot die BUT he is God in the per-existed and manifest in human form. I have being saying this, seems no one is paying attention. "God" is NOT a one being name (cf Col. 1:15-20 emphasis on vs.19).

Now, when you study 1 Cor 11:3, it tell you that head of Christ is God. This context simply doesn't mean the physical head but authority which the God's Word Translation I quoted. So What when you read Godhead in Col. 2:9, it means the full Deity that made God to be God, I mean the Father, it was deposited in Christ and that made him God also but Jesus did not think of it equal with God, the Father. This is what 1 Cor. 11:3 meant by saying God, the Father has authority (the head of Christ) over Christ. I still believe Trinity is a mystery BUT not as difficult as some of your are explaining it. Some of you are explaining as that, Jesus though God is the same as the God,the Father. That will interpret, God the Father and Jesus, God the Son is ONE ENTITY, not two distinct person. When you guys say that, then it means it is Twonity, not trinity anymore because you guys have said Jesus is the Father. Maybe am confused at to you guys explanations or am missing something.

Ijawkid,

You haven't answered my question o. Am waiting. I just wanna know your stand. Too much confusion here on a simple matter.lolz

Goshen360: @ Ijawkid,

Question for you and simple answer, no beating about the bush please

Do you believe Jesus is God.....in this context, God, the Son? Yes or NO

@ Ijawkid,

Question for you and simple answer, no beating about the bush please

Do you believe Jesus is God.....in this context, God, the Son? Yes or NO

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Goshen, I don't think you and ijawkid are not saying the same thing as you might think. Ijawkid is introducing a hierarchy where the persons of the Godhead are ranked in a King and subject style. Please read through Ijawkid's posts, He is also implying that Jesus should not be worshipped as He is a servant of God. This is heretic

The danger in this thread is that Once one starts distinguishing between Jesus and Jehova, you run the risk of belittling Christ. The next thing that follows is the value of His sacrifice. Once you phrase a question as Jesus vs God almighty, you are indirectly implying that Jesus is not mighty enough.[/quote]I know Ijawkid doesn't believe in Trinity but I do believe in Trinity. It's simple what it is. Maybe am looking at this thread on a different understand. My understand of this thread is, Is Jesus as a person the SAME person as God Almighty, which in this context of thread is God the Father? If they are same person, then we have Two person in the Trinity teachings. For us to have Three in UNITY, that ONE, there must be three distinct person in order to be called Trinity. Maybe am understanding something different. Ijawkid if he says Jesus should NOT be worshiped IS PURE HERESY and we can proved that from the bible.

nyameke: @Goshen I thought you understood the Godhead ?

Yes, I do understand Godhead OR you might want to teach more, I don't mind sir.

Image123: i said it already. the trinity is God in three persons. i find it strange that you are asking again if it is the same person, when all Trinitarians say it is God in three persons. The point, and mystery is that it is three persons but not three Gods. God is One, that's the first commandment, i think. The Lord is One. It is not two or more Lords, the Lord Jesus and the Lord God Father, NO. It is One. Jesus is the Almighty God, the Eternal and Everlasting God. The Father is also the Almighty God, the eternal God. The Holy Ghost is the same Almighty God. Yet they are three persons, hence why the Bible calls it a mystery.

Image123,

Seriously, you are confusing Trinity teachings. I "suggest" you take another study on the subject. How can you tell us Jesus is Almighty God and also Father is Almighty God and Holy Spirit is Almighty God? How? God is NOT the author of confusion my brother. See, I believe in Trinity but you're confusing things here. Yes it is a mystery BUT are you saying from Genesis to Revelation, we cannot understand even though we "might" not fully absorb it in our human mind. When the bible was being written is different from when is it complete. In fact, we are the most blessed generation to have the best understand.

You might NOT understand this Trinity like I said to you earlier until you begin to deal with "context" of the text. The concept of Trinity is in Genesis 1:1. That word, "God" in Genesis 1:1 is the most mind blowing and we just have to leave it like that in the sense that, that word, "God" is Elohim. The mystery therein is that, it is PLURAL in meaning but ONE. What this means it that, God, the Father is present. The Word was present in his time past and the Holy Spirit was present. This is where we have 3 persons BUT still ONE. This should simply tell you that "God" NOT God"s" is NOT the name of ONE person in this context. When the revelation was given to Moses, that was when the bible is still in the process of completion, and it says,

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. Deuteronomy 6:4

See whenever you see "LORD" all capitalized in the scriptures and attached with the "God", It is talking about YHWH which means Yahweh in that context of Deut. 6:4 because Jesus also bears God and same the Holy Spirit. So how do you know which is which in the context, just simply the context and when you read things like, "LORD God", it's different from "Lord God", "Lord God" is Christ in any context while "LORD God" is Yahweh and still it is NOT God"s" as you said, it is always "God". I hope you take a break and study this things again. I will advice you get some study aids, if you don't have. Don't take the letters literally, that is why the bible says, the letters kills.

flourishG: 5. To Fulfill an Obligation.

"Ye pay tithe…:these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone" (Matthew 23:23).

Jesus did not criticize the Pharisees for paying tithes. He commended them. He said it was something they "ought" to have done. The word ought expresses an obligation or duty. It is one of the strongest words in the English language. To pay tithes is something every Christian ought to do.

The word ought has three meanings: (a) obligation or duty; as in, "He ought to pay his debts", (b) desirability; as in, "You ought to eat more slowly", (c) expectancy or probability; as in, "I ought to be through by Monday." Each one of these meanings puts an obligation upon the Christian. It is desirable for him to pay his tithes, he is expected to pay his tithes, and he has a duty to pay his tithes.

Again, many years AFTER the law of tithing was given by God to Moses. It was and God's tithing context will be crops and animals, NEVER money. The content of Matt. 23:23 is still crops. It didn't change. Yes, the statement of Jesus said they "ought" to do without neglecting the other. The context of what they ought to do is still from crops. Also, Jesus was still living in the time of the law during this period. You remember they brought a woman caught in adultery to Him and demanded judgment "according to the law". Jesus had not died to take away the law at this time and will not speak against the law of tithing then. Should he do that is to break the break.

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. Matt. 23:23 Niv.

Can you see the content of the tithe? If you have to tithe in God's way, go get spices, mint, dill and cummin. It will be acceptable unto God. Christians have better obligations in Christ Jesus than following the laws of Moses.

@ Image123,

See, Ijawkid is NOT saying Jesus is NOT God. He has said it in this thread. The question or issue we are dealing with is, Is Jesus who is also God the SAME (being or person, so to say) AS THE ALMIGHTY GOD. Almighty God in this context is God, the Father. This is what we are dealing with.

Now, If you say or believe Jesus, who is also God is SAME as God Almighty, who in this context is the Father, THEN WHO IS THE FATHER OR WHAT POSITION IS THE FATHER OR WHAT WILL YOU CALL THE FATHER SHOULD JESUS BE THE GOD ALMIGHTY (The Father)?

Kindly answer these questions please.

flourishG: 4. To Show My Love.

"Many waters cannot quench love" (Song of Solomon 8:7).

Love is the strongest motivation in the world. I have seen bumper stickers that say, "If you love Jesus, honk you horn!" Anyone can honk his horn. But David said, "Neither will I offer…unto the LORD my God of that which doth cost me nothing" (II Samuel 24:24). Someone should print a sticker that says, "If you love Jesus, pay your tithes!"

For someone who genuinely loves the Lord, the tithe is only the beginning of his giving. He gives not only his tithe, but also offerings (plural), not grudgingly and not of necessity, but cheerfully with love.

You don't seize to amaze me. So your definition of love is to pay tithe? What exactly are you or are we owing God that requires us to "pay"? The definition of God's love is this from the scriptures,

If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 1 Jn. 5:3

This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 1 Jn. 4:10 Niv

Love means doing what God has commanded us, and he has commanded us to love one another, just as you heard from the beginning. 2 Jn 1:6 NLT

So you see the various definition of love. You have drugs dealers still in drugs, all you ask is they bring tithe to show their love. You have adulterers, fornications, liars, abortionist and doctors that does abortion for people, you have harlots that does their business and still come play God on Sundays, speaking in tongues and deceiving themselves, all you ask from them is bring tithe to show their love even as the expense of obeying the commandments of God as the definition of love and loving others.

haibe: God yahweh of course (d fada, word nd spirit)

This is one of the problem you are having to comprehend this matter (I dont mean no insult please). Your answer is God, Yahweh of course (the Father, "W"ord, not "w"ord and the "S"pirit, not "s"pirit). Your answer is wrong first. We will get to that after you answer Q2, okay.

Now, let's go to the 2nd question and then after, we will tie it up together, very simple.

Q2. In the beginning was the "W"ord, the "W"ord was with God and the "W"ord was God. John 1:1

Can you distinguish btw the Word that was God and the God the Word was with......in this context?

flourishG: 3. To Fulfill the Covenant.

"For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious" (II Corinthians 3:11).

In every comparison of the law of Moses and the new covenant that came by Jesus Christ, the new covenant stands supreme. The characteristic word in the Book of Hebrews is better, and everything is better about the new covenant. If the law demanded tithes, then how much more should we who are under the "perfect law of liberty" give our tithes willingly. (See James 1:25). If the law is written in the fleshly tables of our hearts and we follow God's commands not from outward rules but because of our new nature, then how quickly and how easily we should give the tenth that belongs to the Lord" (See II Corinthians 3:3-6).

Some people say, "Oh, we do not pay tithes, because tithing was under the law." If that is a sufficient reason for not paying tithes, then we could also mistreat our parents, for the law said, Honour thy father and thy mother" (Exodus 20:12). In actuality, we honor our father and mother and we give our tithes because the principles of the law are written in our hearts by the Spirit of God. We give willingly and liberally because the Spirit motivates us to give what God has said is His.

You see what am talking about you and this your tithe wrong teachings. In one case, you said it precedes the law and in another case, you jump into tithing as per the law of Moses. In the law of Moses was many rituals, do you also do those rituals? In the law of Moses, you are to kill rebellious children, do you also do those things? Why are you guys holding only to tithe and neglect the rest of the law of Moses? The truth about our better covenant is that, the law of tithing is according to a specific people. That is, NOT everyone in Israel were to tithe, ONLY those who produced crops and animals. Carpenters like Jesus were NOT to tithe. Fishermen are NOT commanded to tithe. Tent makers and others aside those who produced crops and animals only were commanded to tithe simply because only God can make INCREASE in bring increase through crops and animals, no man's effort can cause increase in these two areas.

Now, the better covenant we have as Christians is, since NOT everyone had the commandment to tithe in Israel which is exclusively required from farmers, everyone is required to GIVE. Giving can be ANYTHING, including money but tithing according to the law of Moses is strictly based on crops and animals and what makes it law is, the percentage attached to it. By the better covenant, in GIVING which can be anything including money, giving of yourself to service of God; we do not have percentage attached to giving and it is not based on crops and animals only. This is the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. Jesus never taught his Apostles to tithe but to give. This is what the better covenant is all about. We are not restricted to crops and animals because NOT everyone is and will be a farmer but EVERYONE is required to give according to how you propose in your heart and cheerfully, not grudgingly for God loves a cheerful giver.

haibe: Yes you can

Okay, Q1. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Gen. 1:1

In this context, which God is this or what God is this talking about?

flourishG: 2. To Acknowledge My Heritage.

"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" (Galatians 3:29).

Abraham was the first tithe payer of record(Genesis 14:20). Abraham's grandson, Jacob, paid tithes (Genesis 28:22). Scripture says that Levi, Abraham's descendant and the father of the tribe from which the priesthood came, paid tithes in Abraham (Hebrews 7:9). My heritage of paying a tithe precedes the law of Moses. As a child of Abraham and an heir of the promise of Abraham. I acknowledge my family relationship by paying tithes.

Jesus said to the Jews, "If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham" (John 8:39). It would be strange to claim to be a child of Abraham and yet to neglect one of Abraham's most fundamental and noteworthy acts. I pay my tithes as a spiritual descendant of Abraham, the father of the faithful.

This is one of the ways you tithe teachers distort the scriptures to justify your tithe messages. Abram (NOT Abraham) at that time was NOT commanded by God to tithe. If he was commanded, he didn't tithe from his "income", he tithed from "spoils of war", again NEVER income or money. You said, Jacob paid tithes. That is the greatest of lies. Jacob NEVER paid tithes. He "vowed" to give tithes ON HIS TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR GOD. Again, God never commanded Jacob to tithe. You talked about Levi, who paid tithes "IN" Abraham. Levi didn't pay tithe literally because he was still in the lions of Abraham. You simply don't understand what the scriptures is saying there. If you do, you will also understand that same Levi you talked about have the commandment to receive tithe (Heb. 7:5).

You said, your tithe heritage precedes the law. We will soon found out how obvious you still go into the law and don't stay on the pre-law tithing. You also mixed the law and pre-law tithing together. When scriptures says, "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise". What this means is, the promise of Christ will be from Abraham and that was fulfilled in Matt. 1:1. It's a good thing you also quoted Abraham's work to justify tithing. Will you also agree that Abraham lied about his wife Sarah? Should we continue to lie? Abraham gave his wife to the pagan king, will you give your wife to a pagan king to enjoy her? Abraham also gave the remaining of the spoils from which he paid tithe to the rightful owners and never kept anything, will you also give all your monthly income to God without keeping anything and just live on faith? Abraham obeyed to pass the test of faith in attempt to slaughter his son, Isaac, will you also make attempt to slaughter your son? These are the works of Abraham, will you also do any of this?

You seems NOT to understand when the Jews began to hold onto Abraham like you and forgetting the finished works of Christ, Jesus told people like you in John 8:58 that, "before Abraham was born, I am". When Jesus came as the seed of Abraham, He didn't tithe neither did he do the works of Abraham but He exhorted us to give and it shall be given unto us. If Abraham died for your redemption, keep doing the works of Abraham and thinking you will be made perfect with that works.

@ haibe,

Can I ask you two questions? One after the other, then we can go from the question. Trinity is NOT as difficult as you are making it.

flourishG: Why do people tithe to the church? The reasons are many. As I considered my own motivation, I discovered at least ten reasons why I give ten percent of my income to the church. A study of these reasons will help us to understand the great blessing of tithing and the biblical responsibility to tithe.

1. To Honor the Creator.

"Render… unto God the things that are God's" (Matthew 22:21).

Acquisitiveness is one of the basic drives of mankind. Children grasp their toys and cry, "Mine!" Someone has noted three attitudes in the parable of the good Samaritan. The priest and the Levite had the attitude, "What's mine is mine and I'm going to keep it!" The thieves had the attitude "What's yours is mine, and I'm going to get it!" The Samaritan had the attitude, 'What's mine is yours, and you can have it." There is another attitude that should permeate our thinking, even above the commendable attitude of the Samaritan. That is, "Everything we have belongs to God, and we are stewards of His goods'"

God owns the entire world and its substance. "The earth is the LORD"S, and the fulness thereof" (Psalm 24:1). "Behold, all souls are mine" (Ezekiel 18:4). "The silver is mine, and the gold is mine" (Haggai 2:8 ). It is God who gives people the power to obtain wealth (Psalm 75:6-7; Ecclesiastes 5:19). We are not to glory in what God has given us, but to glory in Him (Jeremiah 9:23-24). Why should I be grudge God ten percent when everything actually belongs to Him? If it were not for Him, there would be no land, no seed, no strength, no income, and no life. How generous He is to tell us, ""the tithe... is the LORD'S"! (Leviticus 27:30).

The tithe is the Lord's. What tithe exactly are we talking about here? The tithe that is the LORD'S is NEVER and WILL NEVER be MONEY. You false tithe teachers simply don't get the truth of the word of God. Do you know that money existed from Genesis but God NEVER asked tithe to be brought from MONEY but WHAT THE LORD HIMSELF PRODUCED OR INCREASED FOR THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL THAT ARE INTO CROP AND ANIMAL REARING. When you look at these two areas, crops and animals, ONLY God can cause the increase from the ground and make the animals fruitful. God changed the law of tithing that was mainly crops and animals to "GIVING" so that ALL can now give, knowing not all does crop and animal rearing and so that ALL can now be blessed by giving, you people are still holding to the law of tithing that God has done away with. My dear brother, please get real life, God is done away with laws of tithing but has not showed or given us the law of "GIVING". What makes it a law then was that it was specific, "from crops and animals" but what makes it grace is "giving anything, including money". Tithe was never money but giving can be anything including money. If you want to prove to us, show us a single text where tithing is money apart from crops and animals. For you to know it was NEVER intended to be from money, God said if you are to redeem your crops and animal tithe to money, then you must add 20% and that makes it more than 10%. So what exactly are you teaching God's people in tithing money? 10% or 30%?

If you want to buy back the LORD's tenth of the grain or fruit, you must pay its value, plus 20 percent. Leviticus 27:31 NLT

Leviticus 27:30 "'A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD.

Leviticus 27:32 The entire tithe of the herd and flock--every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd's rod--will be holy to the LORD.

So can you see the VERY and SPECIFIC content of God's biblical tithe? Crops and animals is the content, NEVER money and if it were to be money, add 20% and it will be accepted by the Lord. This is the truth of tithing.

I will continue to refute the rest of your false teachings (2-10), brb.