₦airaland Forum

JeSoul:
^hmm . . . haven't you kinda answered the question already?

As long as church funds are being discharged appropriately not only is there nothing wrong in paying pastors and other church employees, it is our obligation as the congregation to support them not only financially but spiritually and in other ways as well. Let us not let the abuse of this priviledge by some prevent us from doing what we ought to do.

1. I didn't answer the question. The highlighted is part of the bible verses quoted. One verse of scripture doesn't justify a christian practice. From the mouth of two or three witnesses, the truth shall be established. We cannot just sit on one verse of the bible or one chapter and make a teaching out of it. That will not be rightly dividing the word of truth.

2. Highlighted in red. There is nothing wrong in paying pastor but no Apostle received salary neither did Jesus our perfect example.

3. Highlighted in green. I think that is exactly what that bible verse or chapter is talking about.

4. Highlighted in Blue. The good and the bad are all mixed together.

Recently, I began to do some intensive studies on some Pentecostal issues in the body of Christ. One of the things I stumbled on is this subject. Hence, I want us to look deeply into this subject as the Lord will permit us. Many Preachers and Pastors today quote 1 Corinthians 9:1-14 supporting them to get salary from the Church for preaching the gospel because they are preaching the gospel as a full time preacher. Is it right or biblical for a preacher to get monthly salary preaching the gospel of Jesus? Remembering the instructions of Jesus when He sent His disciples to preach the gospel, He said to them,

As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.' Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. Matthew 10:7-8 (NIV)

1 Corinthians 9:1-14 (NIV)

[b]1. Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord?
2. Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
3.This is my defense to those who sit in judgment on me.
4. Don’t we have the right to food and drink?
5. Don’t we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephasa?
6. Or is it only I and Barnabas who must work for a living?
7. Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk?
8. Do I say this merely from a human point of view? Doesn’t the Law say the same thing?
9. For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.”b Is it about oxen that God is concerned?
10. Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.
11. If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you?
12. If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more? But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.
13. Don’t you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?
14. In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.[/b]

Please let's be mature in our presentation and no abusive words. Kindly support your view with bible verse for or against this topic with explanation. Thank you and God bless.

Because it teaches us the ways and nature of God, one of which is holiness.

FXKing2012:
@sheldon123 made some good points but in the cases he cited, it seems they fell down purposely to worship unlike what happens in churches today. However, the verses below may help support what happens in churches today:

Acts 22:7  "And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? "

Rev 1:17  And when I saw him,[b] I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

@goshen360 & @joagabje, what do u think about these verses?[/b]

The verses are very clear. The case of Saul, i explained in my article. He, Saul was over shadowed with the great light. A similar thing to the kind of mount of transfiguration. They were overshadowed by great light of glory but today's church blow breeze into microphone. When this kind of falling happens in the church, it is biblical because fall under the glory of God and without being arranged. It happens by the leading of Spirit of God not an anointed person trying to show off some power.

The case of John in the book of Revelation is also falling in reference and worship as it is obvious he fell at Jesus' feet. John's falling was also personal by himself, no one touched him. This shows the falling was in reference to the glory of Jesus he saw. When we interpret the bible in context, we get the message.

Awaiting Jo for explanations to this and above comments I made.

I leave the rest for my friend and brother, image123 to complete it. If he doesn't get them we go flog him very well. Good luck to you bro.

61. It is located in Sidon. 1 Kings 17:9

62. Anyone who escape the sword of Jehu.

63. Causing rain to come down from heaven, 1 kings 18: 41-45

64. They called on their god from morning till evening. I kings 18: 26 – 29

65. 7000 people. 1 Kings 19:18

66. David’s wives.

67. Children of David

68. Commander of the armies of Israel.

69. 3000 proverbs and 1005 songs. 1 kings 4:32.

70. The theme of the book of Proverbs is that the "fear of the Lord" is the beginning of wisdom.

71. Proverbs 6:16-19 lists them: Arrogant Eyes, A Lying Tongue, Hands That Shed Innocent Blood, A Heart That Plots Wicked Schemes, Feet Eager to Run to Evil, A Lying Witness Who Gives False Testimony, One Who Stirs Up Trouble Among Brothers.

72. King Jeroboam was from Israel's ten northern tribes.

73. Asa’s grandmother is Abishalom. I kings 15:10.

74. He had idolatrous altars and images torn down. He also began to eliminate the male and female prostitutes who attended the pagan temples, groves, altars, and shrines. He realized that the pagan peoples might again try to impose their false religious practices on his people, so he also used this interval of peace to build up his territorial defenses. 1 kings 15:11-15.

75. Nadab.

76. He was from Syria. 2 kings 5:1

All my points are not to generalize every pastors or prophets but they are marks of the false prophets that cannot be faked. It will surely manifest with time and Christians are to watch out for them. This is the motive behind the thread. There are so many false prophets today and the people of God/body of Christ should bother true Christians.

^^^ mine is a suggestion. I do not hold final say here. we all agree. I didn't mean we should not read old testament but since the new applies to us today, based on my understanding of the bible, we should concentrate to study the new while making references to the old. Thanks though. Let's contribute and let's start something.

Joagbaje:
The illuminaty you are palling with is not a believer either in the bible of the christian God. You already have unholy alliance  

I didn't pally with diluminati. I was only telling her to calm down and be gentle on you so we can treat this subject biblically. However, if you take it that i pally with her, i tell you the truth, God can also speak the truth through a donkey especially when the prophet of God refused to speak. Have you not heard that, God can raise children out from stones for Abraham?

Joagbaje:
It's the holy spirit that does it not the demon

John 18:6
6 When Jesus said to them, I am He, they went backwards and fell to the ground.

Was it a demon that fell the soldiers? Or the power of God.

Mr. Jo, It should not be too hard to explain your biblical verses. You just said above, "it is the holy spirit that does knock people down, not the demon". Can you back up with a verse from the bible where the holy spirit knocked one person down other than demon? Again, You said, was it demon that made the soldiers fall? In the verse, ok. Let's agree it is Jesus power in him that made them fall but on the contrary you just said it is the holy spirit that makes people fall. Remember, the same holy spirit had not yet being given at this time. Also remember if you can explain it that, the soldiers who fell here are unbelievers but still got up and arrested Jesus. Could this mean the power of Jesus could not prevent them from arresting him or could not make them repent from arresting him after falling down?

Joagbaje:
1. It's only a manifestation. 2. When the power of God comes on people they cam fall down. It happen in Jesus ministry.
3. The holyghost can manifest in different ways. It doesn't have to be written.

4. Where was it written that a shadow can heal? Where did paul read it that a handkerchief can heal?

5. These manifestation are spiritual. Where is it written that demons can come out by vomit or by fart! . These are manifestations.

6. When you minister in the name of Jesus anything can happen.

1. You said it is a manifestation. Please, we dont want head knowledge afterall, you asked us to show you where is is written in the bible that mastubation is a sin. So you should be able to show us where it is clearly written that holy spirit falling people down is a manifestation. We can show you all through the bible that manifestations are effect of demonic power, either about to be cast out or still in operation in the life of the possessed.

2. You said, when the power comes upon people they can fall down, it happened in Jesus ministry. Again please show us where in the bible. The holy Ghost came on the disciples like FIRE, my brother none of them fall. This is where God is greater than man. Even the bush burned with fire but wasn't consumed. Please, kindly show us in the bible where it happened in Jesus ministry and lets look at the event if it was demon that caused the falling or power of Jesus.

3. You said, the holy ghost can manifest in different ways. That is very correct and biblical truth but that it doesn't have to be written is HERESY. You know why it is heresy? From the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses, the truth shall be established. Are you  saying from genesis to revelation, complete word of God will negate a single account where the holy spirit made people fall. Are you saying the word of God that is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness is not complete for our standard anymore? Well I leave you to answer that.

4. You said, where was it written that shadows can heal and handkerchief can heal. This is where you missed it. The bible at that time wasn't complete. Now the bible is complete and all kinds of event are written. But then it is written for us as a valid kind of miracle and manifestation of the holy spirit. Again the people heal by shadows and handkerchiefs didn't fall. If you validate this kind of miracles by the holy spirit, then your men of God or even you should have given us testimony how your or their shadow have healed people or rather make people fall.

5. You said, manifestation are spiritual. THAT IS ANOTHER HERESY. Manifestation is physical. When it done in the spiritual such as healing, deliverance, casting out demons and such that are written for us to validate from the bible, the manifestion is physical. If it is spiritual, then your people that falls should fall spiritually without a physical evidence. You also said, what it written that when demon come out, some can vomit fart? This is till physical manifestation of a demonic person. A true believer will never vomit stuffs from the mouth.

6. When you minister in the name of Jesus, anything can happen. Very correct and such this we have examples in the word of God. All kinds of healing, walking on the water, miracles of barren womb, healing by shadows, even the mantle people preach today is not how it is in the bible. In the bible, people brought mantle by themselves and touched Paul with it and took it back home to lay on their sick who cannot come to healing center where Paul was. Today, people sell mantles everywhere. If it is true, it cannot be faked and if it is faked, it cannot be true. How many of people take mantle or handkerchiefs to touch a man of God today and take it back home to touch the sick. This are real miracles not the ones faked today. how many men of God did people touched the helm of their garment and they are healed? why must it always be falling falling all the time like a one way remote control? This is what we question not the power of God.

Awaiting you explanations.

Ok. You and I are in the USA. We will talk about money biblically. Ok. I will expose some things to you. I believe the bible more than any man of God even when such man is my mentor. I rather take God's word. Send me email and leave me your contact. I will call you when I wake up. Mine is goshen360@Yahoo.co.uk. thanks bro.

Lol. Take am easy o. E be like say you dey vex too much.lol. take am easy. Let's deal with this matter gradually.

musKeeto,
I replied your email. Thanks

@eddy1977,
The word of God is a two edged sword. You don't need to know any man of God from Adam for the word of God to expose them. If I am to expose list of false prophets in the USA and Nigeria alone, you will be shocked. They don't go about with the inscription of false prophets on their fore heads, just stay in the word and be open minded, you will see them in the mirror of God's. Believe not every spirits my brother,even your pastor can be a false shepherd until you see it, you won't know. You said, if a church doesn't teach about money,you will leave. I can't believe a true Christian can say that. I am typing from ny phone, permit me to show you some truth when I wake up on what you just said,ok.

Na wha for you,lol. I sent you reply back in your mail.

@ God2man,
Your example is exactly the pictures of the things we have in the bible. From the bible verse you quoted, it was the evil spirit that thorn the person down not as against the the kind of show we have today. In the real life you talked about, it the while the possessed is still possessed that he or she rolls on the floor. Today, people come out in crusade claiming to be healed or delivered of some evil spirit,pastor touch them n they still fall,does that mean they are still possessed? In some cases, they fall like 3-4 Times, isn't the first fall enough to take out any evil spirit? This are things we should get explanations from the bible from, if it is not lying wonders the bible talked about.

@ diluminati,
Don't be arsh on Jo, let us proof it biblically.

@ joagbaje,
Demon is the most that I see knock people down in the bible. Others are believers who fall consciously by themselves in reference or worship to God and his power. We must be careful how we validate certain things. The bible is very complete. We should at least find two instances where a believer is knocked down by the power of God in the bible. I said at least two instances because the bible says, from the mouth of two or three,the truth shall be established. We are not doubting the power of God but something that is of God should not be difficult to explain. Jesus touched people and they didn't fall except for being possessed by evil spirit. Apostles did lots of signs,no records of people falling n some catching them. Holy spirit came upon Jesus,he didn't sink in river Jordan. Holy ghost came like fire on the apostles,they didn't fall all of them. The proof of demons knocking people down is common in the bible,we do not have proof of holy ghost knocking people down, can you explain that with valid bible verses please.

And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God to the shepherds: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock. (Ezek. 34:2-3)

Recently, I began a study on signs of the end time. One of the signs that were accurately spoken 2000 years ago by Jesus is the rise of false prophets. I was stuck by how accurately the verses portrayed the characteristics of the apostate shepherds, teachers, and prophets we are seeing in the church today. It drove me to pull out other scriptures to see if I could get an overall picture of what GOD considers to be a bad (or false) shepherd.

The disciples of Jesus came to Him, wanting to know the signs of the end of the age and His second coming. Jesus sitting on mount Olives began to speak. The first signs Jesus mentioned is the appearance of false “Christs” with their deceptions. Christ Himself is a Shepherd. He is Saviour. He is Messiah. He is a Prophet. In other words, Christ was telling His disciples there will be rise of false Christ (Shepherds, messiah, Saviour and prophets). Listen to the words of the master.

Matthew 23:3-5, 23-26 (NIV)

“As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately.”Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age? Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.


V23-26. At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time. "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (Mat. 7:15)

The word "ravening", comes from the Greek word “harpax”, which can also mean an extortioner or a robber. These false prophets have literally come to extract a price from the sheep. They appear one way but are really another, in other words they are duplicitous. They have a vociferous appetite; inwardly they would tear the flesh from our bones and devour us, but outwardly they pretend to be harmless, docile and righteous.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. (II Peter 2:1-2)

The world pernicious means having a harmful effect, especially in a gradual or subtle way. In other words false teachers, will have a slow destructive effect in a subtle way. They will cause people to despise and speak ill of the truth because of their negative example

And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. (II Peter 2:30)

To feign means to pretend to be affected by (a feeling, state, or injury): Plastos means to mould or form. The word for “make merchandise of”, is the Greek word “emporeuomai” which means to deal in, or to use for personal gain. In other words, these wolves will mold or form their words carefully, even using false emotion and pretending to be affected by them, in order to deceive. Their ultimate goal is money; they want to use the sheep for their own personal gain.

You see, we are not like the many hucksters who preach for personal profit. We preach the word of God with sincerity and with Christ's authority, knowing that God is watching us.
2 Corinthians 2:17 (NLT)

Today in the church of God, we see shepherd who charge exorbitant fee to preach the gospel of Christ. The Church structure and organization has been patterned to a family inheritance in such a way that the Spouse or Children of a founder takes over should a founder pass away. Hence, the worldly pattern and methods are being adopted for the work of the ministry. The church members are used to achieve a personal profit and gains. This is what the bible meant when it says; they will make merchandise of you for personal gains. Jesus said, “I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” Matt. 16:18. The church of Jesus does not belong to man. Man is a vessel in the hand of our Lord to be used for God’s glory. Jesus said, “But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." John 12:32.

Your prophets have seen for you false and deceptive visions; they have not uncovered your iniquity,
To bring back your captives, But have envisioned for you false prophecies and delusions. They are not able to loose those held captive but have filled their listeners with false hope and delusions. (Lam. 2:14)

Their visions are false and deceptive; they claim to hear and speak for God but fail to uncover the iniquity of those to whom they prophesy! Time, God and in-depth knowledge in the word of God is the only factor that exposes the deceptions and falsehood of such false shepherds. For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires. Heb 4:12,NLT

Yes, they are greedy dogs
Which never have enough.
And they are shepherds
Who cannot understand;
They all look to their own way,
Every one for his own gain,
From his own territory. (Isaiah 56:11)

They are greedy and no matter what they have it is never enough. They are supposed to be shepherds but they can not teach when they themselves do not understand. They are looking to their own way instead of THE Way. They are out for their own gain, and belly.

“My people have been lost sheep.
Their shepherds have led them astray;
They have turned them away on the mountains.
They have gone from mountain to hill;
They have forgotten their resting place. (Jer. 50:6)

The people that they are supposed to be shepherding are lost because THEY have led them astray. They have led them by way of a difficult path instead of leading them to a place of rest.

And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God to the shepherds: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock. (Ezek. 34:2-3)

"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. (John 10:11)

They are supposed to be feeding the sheep but instead feed themselves. They are clothed with wool provided by the sheep themselves and are actually feasting on the very ones they are supposed to be leading! The sheep are being sacrificed so the wicked shepherd can have the very best. In contrast, the Good Shepherd feeds his sheep, and is willing lay down His life for them.

The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them. (Ezek. 34:4)

They have not strengthened the weak, or healed the sick and broken, nor have they bound their wounds. They do not care about the ones they have driven away, nor do they care about the ones who have wandered off. They rule the flock by force, domination, lording over them and by cruelty.

‘Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: “As I live,” says the Lord God, “surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became food for every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, nor did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock” therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the Lord! Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require my flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds shall feed themselves no more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them.” (Ezek 34:7-10)

The apathy of the shepherd causes the flock to be at the mercy of every meat eating beast. The false shepherd is a hireling and is only in it for his own gain.

Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; by sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed. (Jer. 14:14-15)

The false prophets prophesy lies, false visions, and empty deceitful words that are their own and not God’s. God has not sent them, nor has he spoken to them. They prophesy witchcraft and divination and are speaking peace when there is none.

Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, [and] not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17They say still unto them that despise me, the LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. (Jer. 23:16)

Clearly it is never the Lord’s heart to placate people in their sin, but rather to implore them to turn from their wickedness to avoid coming judgment. It is obvious that these prophesies originate within the wicked hearts of the false prophets and do not come from the mouth of the Lord.

I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings. (Jer. 23:21)

God has not sent them (although they claim he has) and he has not spoken to them (yet they claim He did). If they were truly speaking for the Lord then they would have turned the people from their wicked ways but they did not.

Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture!” says the Lord. Therefore thus says the Lord God of Israel against the shepherds who feed my people: “You have scattered my flock, driven them away, and not attended to them. Behold, I will attend to you for the evil of your doings,” says the Lord. (Jer. 23:1-3)

These wicked shepherds destroy and scatter the sheep, drive them away and refuse to tend their needs.

Also I have seen a horrible thing in the prophets of Jerusalem:
They commit adultery and walk in lies;
They also strengthen the hands of evildoers,
So that no one turns back from his wickedness.
All of them are like Sodom to Me,
And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.
They commit adultery, they lie, instead of calling out and dealing with the sin in the lives of the sheep they reinforce the sin by telling the sheep what they want to hear (Jer. 23:14)

They lie and commit adultery and instead of dealing with people’s sin they actually reinforce it by telling them what they want to hear.

“I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in my name, saying, ‘I have dreamed, I have dreamed!’ How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart, who try to make my people forget my name by their dreams which everyone tells his neighbor, as their fathers forgot my name for Baal. (Jer. 23:25)

They claim their dreams are from the Lord, yet they lie and are prophesying out of deceitfulness of flesh. They cause the people to prefer being lead by their dreams and visions instead of by the Lord and His Word. They deceive people in exchanging true worship for pagan worship.

Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” says the Lord, “and tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all,” says the Lord. (Jer.23:32)

They lie and prophesy false dreams and because of their recklessness people are led into sin. They do not profit the people whatsoever because the Lord did not send them. God never intended for his sheep to be hungry, lied to, abused, led with force, domination or coercion or mistreated in any way. Below are summary of their falsehood:

They appear harmless but are not

They are extortionist and robbers, charging fees for preaching the gospel

They come to extract a price from the sheep quoting 1 Corinthians 9:11 out of context and without balancing it with other verses of scriptures such as 2 Corinthians 2:17, 1 Corinthians 9:18.

They are capable of showing lying signs and wonders

They are able to deceive even the elects by lying wonders

They bring a slow and gradual introduction of heresies

They cause people to despise and speak ill of the truth

They use false emotion and pretend to be affected by their own words

They cleverly craft their words to have an effect in order to deceive

They traffic in sheep and use them for the personal gain

They use false and deceptive visions

They claim to hear and speak for God but fail to uncover sin in the flock.

They do not truly loose the captives but fill them with false hope and delusions

They are greedy and never have enough

They teach things that they do not understand

They are territorial

They remind people who challenge or question them with verse that says “touch not the anointed of God”

They lead people along a difficult path instead of leading them to a place of rest

They feed themselves but do not feed the sheep

They feast on the very ones they are supposed to be feeding

They do not strengthen the weak

They do not truly heal the sick

They often use various gimmicks, selling of anointed materials, mantles and trinkets from holy land.

They often request to pray over letters, e-mails, prayer request and photographs instead of teaching God’s people to pray by themselves.

They do not bind up the broken

They do not seek after those they have driven away

They do not seek the lost

They lead the flock with force, domination and cruelty

They do not care about sheep who have wandered off

They leave the sheep open to attack from beasts of the field

They prophesy lies and false visions

Their words are empty, worthless and deceitful

They speak that all is well to people who are clearly in sin and at enmity with God

They say they speak for the Lord but they don't

They say the Lord has sent them but He hasn't

Their visions come from their own heart and not from the Lord's

They prophesy witchcraft and divination

They are hirelings and only in if for themselves

They make people vain

They falsely tell people that no harm will befall them instead of warning them when the people are living in sin.

They destroy and scatter the sheep

They commit adultery

They walk in lies

They reinforce sin by telling people what they want to hear

They claim their dreams are from the Lord

They cause people to prefer to be led by dreams and visions rather than the word of God.

They cause people to exchange true worship for pagan worship

The pattern of God in His word is that His people should be fed with the word of God. If you are sitting under a ministry who is feeding ON you instead of feeding you, allow the Good Shepherd to lead you out.

crossman9:
did you get the invite on skype

No, let's chat on yahoo tomorrow, monday. ok I will be online on yahoo all day. Thanks

Q 4. I want to be known for true Christian. So help me God.

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 2 Thess. 2:9 (KJV)

The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 2 Thess. 2:9 (NIV)

The Pentecostal movement says when the Spirit comes upon you it will overcome you with power, slaying you, hence making you to fall under the anointing and power of the Holy Ghost. Today this has become the common denominator of the Spirits presence with power and is sought after as proof of receiving the anointing and portrays a proof of anointed ones. This is not to discount that the Holy Spirit cannot do unusual things, however before we put a stamp of approval on a practice to be a normality instead of the unusual, we need to see if it is promoted as such in the Scriptures and hence giving it a biblical support so we can validate it as Christians.

The problem today is many believe every thing and every spirit which we are warned never to believe every spirits. Christians today will NOT go back to the scriptures to see if what is being taught is correct or wrong. Those who participate in this practice need to consider what they are really attributing to the Holy Spirit. There is no Biblical precedent for this and need to consider the source of the activity. We are not excluding that God cannot overwhelm someone with his presence, what needs to be questioned is when it becomes a normal practice in the church that represents the Spirits work.

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1 (NIV)

When the Spirit came upon Jesus at His baptism He came up out of the water; He didn’t collapse and sink down! The Lord Jesus had power to heal even the worst cases of disease, blindness and crippled limbs, and yet no one who Jesus ever touched fell over “slain.” Nor do we find Peter or John touching people and causing them to fall over. They did not ask other disciples to stand behind those they were going to lay hands on, to catch them as they toppled backward by the power. The New Testament has no people lining up waiting for the “anointing” to be passed on from another, not even the Apostles. Can you picture any of the Apostles running up to people and slapping them on the forehead, or lining people up to be slain? No soft music or repetitive choruses were sung to set an atmosphere for the anointing to fall. No one yelled repetitive phrases like, “Fire!” or “touch” or “More, Lord!” or “Take it” or “Receive it now”

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil." Matt 3:16 – 4:1

The power of the Holy Spirit is suppose to enable us overcome temptations as seen above. The power is suppose to get people up not put them down and out. At the gate Beautiful Peter said to the blind man, “silver and gold I have none, but in the name of Jesus, RISE UP and walk.” Most of these new anointed dispensers of power can’t say the same because silver and gold they have abundantly. The power of God got people up; those who were thrown to the ground shaking and having convulsions were not possessed by the Holy Spirit but often demon-possessed in need of deliverance. They were not reacting from receiving God’s power they were in need of God’s power for it to stop.

So where does this all come from in this latter days? Those who advocate the support and validate this practice need to consider what they are really attributing to the Holy Spirit. There is no Biblical precedent for being “slain in the Spirit” or “falling under the anointing of the Holy Spirit” as we see being practiced today.

Scriptures used to validate this as Biblical are:
Gen.15, 17:1-3; Josh.5:13-15; Ez.1:28, 43:1-5, 44:4; Mt.17:5-6; Rev. 7:11, 11:16-17; Acts 9.

Many fell backwards in Scripture, but it was not a blessing! In 1 Samuel 4:18: Eli fell off his seat backwards on hearing of the death of his sons and the capture of the Ark and he died. Isaiah 28:13 the prophet speaks of God’s Word sent to refresh, but if not heard it became a judgment “that they may go and stumble backward, and be broken.” In all these examples it is a judgment, not a blessing! In 1 Samuel 28:20 we read of Saul immediately collapsing “full length” on the ground upon hearing of his impending death from Samuel after consulting the witch of Endor.

2 Chronicles 5, describes God’s glory filling the newly completed Temple. It says, “The priests could not continue ministering , for the glory of the Lord filled the house of God” (v.14). This cannot be made into a normative occurrence for today’s Church, as many have tried to do. This was a celebration because the temple was completed, the ark was brought in and Solomon had the priests assemble inside the most holy place. Inside the glory manifested physically as cloud in a contained place, the rest of Israel was still standing outside. In 2 Chronicles 7:2 and I Kings 8:11 the priests could not enter the temple or perform the priestly duties of the LORD because the temple was filled with the glory of the LORD.

In Ezekiel 1:28 and 2:1 the prophet is overwhelmed by the vision he saw and falls forward in worship. Those who are holy fall forward in conscious submission to God’s Holy presence. They do not become dazed and confused, as in some spirit services today. Those who are enemies fall backward when confronted with God’s true power. Philippians 2 says every knee will bow. Those who are conscious of who they serve bow forward, willingly and fully conscious. Those who fall backward overwhelmed, show a lack of submission, and rebellion.

Daniel, in 10:4-11 encountered a powerful angel and said, “I had no strength left, my face turned deathly pale, and I was helpless, I fell into a deep sleep, my face to the ground.” Daniel fell on his face; he fell forward. This was not without purpose. Daniel, a prophet, was receiving revelation that would become Scripture. Since in the Old Testament those who were affected in this manner were not born again, indwelt permanently by the Holy Spirit, this experience cannot be used as normative for the Church today. When John saw Jesus glorified in heaven (Revelation 1:17) he describes that, ‘“I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.” John was overcome with fear; he did not recognize Him as the Jesus He knew on earth.
In examples from either the Old Testament or the New, the men affected did not have a permanent indwelling of the Spirit.

When the soldiers came to arrest Jesus, in John 18:4-6 He reveals His power in a unique way. He identified himself to the soldiers who were arresting him and they “drew back and fell to the ground.” Jesus first revealed Himself by saying His divine name, “I Am,” making it clear who it is they came for. When He identified Himself to them, they fell to the ground in judgment. These pagan sinners did fall -- backwards. They did not experience revelation or receive an anointing, or conversion, they got right back up and arrested Jesus. There was no change in them; they were still enemies of Jesus. Also, none of Jesus’ followers fell down during the arrest. Certainly none of this represents a pattern for the Church. Those who practice the artful ritual of being “slain in the Spirit” or “falling under anointing” today deny or ignore these Biblical facts in order to embrace an experience that is not endorsed in the Bible.

In Matthew 17:5-6 (NIV)

While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!" When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified.

The event at the mount of transfigurations. We see here the glory of God filled where they were all standing and Jesus was transformed right in front of His disciples. The glory was so much that made the disciples fell down in reference to the glory. Again, we do not see Jesus touching the disciples neither can we see someone standing at the back of the disciples to catch them.

Acts of the Apostles 9.

Saul was an unbeliever on his way to his next extermination. He was knocked to the ground by a light (the Shekinah glory), not someone called the anointed man slapping him or touching his head so he could fall as we have today and he had a revelation of Christ. When Saul fell, no one touched him and no one was there to catch him. The Scripture doesn’t actually say how he fell, but the Greek language seems to indicate he went to the ground on his own volition in reference to the great light. Jesus does not appear to be the source of Paul’s falling to the ground, Jesus did not allow Paul to remain on the ground, but told him to “arise and go into Damascus.” Remember Saul was unsaved at the time, but people who fall today all claim to be believers and Christians. So this does not provide any justification for regarding it as a model for believers to practice today. Saul was consciously carrying on a conversation with the Lord.

In Acts 26:14 Paul, recalling the event, stated all who were with him saw the light and fell to the ground, but only he heard the voice (Acts 22:9). This was an extreme measure designed to get Paul’s attention, as he was on his way to kill Christians. The others with Paul who also fell were unbelievers and stayed in their unbelieving state. Therefore, this incident involving falling to the ground (being slain by the Spirit) cannot be used to support the idea that it is a spiritual blessing, as commonly said today.

When we see Tele-evangelists blow on people they go down yet when Christ breathed on the disciples they did not. When Jesus touched people they did not fall. The biblical model is whenever the Spirit fell they were not expecting him. The Spirit is called the comforter, the helper another one like Jesus. When Jesus left he said he would send us another like himself. His role was to replace the physical Jesus by indwelling all believers giving them a relationship with God. The question we need to ask is did Jesus act this erratic and have power displays? If not then why should the Spirit act this way when he is to point to Jesus? Is this the nature of Jesus or something other than him is operating? How is it the person who dispenses this power that can knock people down, can stand through it all? That they can touch people even the catchers and they don’t go down during the service. How is the same person who just was felled over by his touch can afterward be hugged and not go over. Who then is in control if it only happens at the wave of his hand or when he says the word? Why does this only occur at the big crusades and where they meet for service and it does not take place during their days chores.

The only way to know the true from the false is to test it. Jesus had the greatest anointing, yet, when He prayed for people they did not fall over; neither did Jesus go down when He was anointed. The Spirit came upon him as a dove, as a gentle companion. This phenomena and practice is foreign to Scripture. Can the Holy Spirit be thrown around like a force? This Spirit goes where the conductor tells Him to go. Biblically we are to submit and take our guidance from the Spirit, this is the opposite. Jesus taught that the Holy Spirit goes where He will, He chooses how He will be known in the heart and life of a believer, and it is not for any man to decide when His abiding in another is to be.

John 3:8,
“The wind blows where it pleases, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot not tell where it came, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

No one knows where the Spirit comes from or where the Spirit goes. The Spirit is likened to the wind. Those who can dispense the anointing seem to tell the Spirit where to go and know where He will go next and what He or “it” will do. Think, my friend! Where do we find these experiences? Even the apostles did not have such experiences! What is operating? What is the source? Remember the Spirit is God himself who is supposedly thrown around the room. Whenever the presence came in the Old Testament all were affected but today the dispenser of this power stands strong while the participants all go down. Are they alone immune to its affects?

The Bible commands us to test it. Mature Christians test the spirits; babies, weak and carnal Christians avoid testing.

Hebrews 5:13-14 (NIV)

Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

By pursuing a blessing they have abandoned truth in place of a supernatural experience. In so doing they have inadvertently become open to deception by accepting this without any testing. People have succumbed to the oldest charade; in their pursuit of a blessing they have abandoned truth in place of a supernatural experience without ever testing the source for Biblical proof. Does the Bible show people line up in a church service in a row and have the power dispersed from an anointed person. There are no conduits for his power, Jesus has and always will be the baptizer of the Holy Spirit we don’t need any other mediator. Jesus is our example. When Jesus was anointed, the Spirit came upon him as a dove, not as a wild animal like a rhinoceros.

Jesus is the baptizer, who anoints with the Holy Spirit. The power really comes only from Christ, just what are people receiving through this experience? Do these displays of power become the convincing proof of God’s presence? John 10:41-42 records, “Then many came to Him and said, ‘John performed no sign, but all the things that John spoke about this Man were true.’ And many believed in Him there.” John convinced the people without a display of miracles. It was the truth that converted them and made them into followers. It is by knowing the truth (the Word) that keeps people following faithfully, not displays of power. We don’t need to be slain “in the Spirit”, but cut “by the Spirit,” the Word (John 6:63; Hebrews 4:12). One way is by expositional preaching the other is offered by experience. One comes by the Word that is objective, that teaches and convicts through the Holy Spirit, the other is subjective, by a person touching you or imparting a power. The Word is Biblical, the other is not.

Truly the ancient words of the prophet Hosea ring true for us today, as it did then, “MY PEOPLE ARE DESTROYED FOR A LACK OF KNOWLEDGE, BECAUSE THEY HAVE REJECTED KNOWLEDGE” (Hosea 4:6)

When experience replaces Biblical knowledge, we have abandoned God’s standard. Knowledge can be painful when it corrects us, but it can cost much more to follow falsehood, which by its nature is easy to swallow and soothing to those who refuse the truth.

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 2 Thess. 2:9 (KJV)

The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 2 Thess. 2:9 (NIV)

The Pentecostal movement says when the Spirit comes upon you it will overcome you with power, slaying you, hence making you to fall under the anointing and power of the Holy Ghost. Today this has become the common denominator of the Spirits presence with power and is sought after as proof of receiving the anointing and portrays a proof of anointed ones. This is not to discount that the Holy Spirit cannot do unusual things, however before we put a stamp of approval on a practice to be a normality instead of the unusual, we need to see if it is promoted as such in the Scriptures and hence giving it a biblical support so we can validate it as Christians.

The problem today is many believe every thing and every spirit which we are warned never to believe every spirits. Christians today will NOT go back to the scriptures to see if what is being taught is correct or wrong. Those who participate in this practice need to consider what they are really attributing to the Holy Spirit. There is no Biblical precedent for this and need to consider the source of the activity. We are not excluding that God cannot overwhelm someone with his presence, what needs to be questioned is when it becomes a normal practice in the church that represents the Spirits work.

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1 (NIV)

When the Spirit came upon Jesus at His baptism He came up out of the water; He didn’t collapse and sink down! The Lord Jesus had power to heal even the worst cases of disease, blindness and crippled limbs, and yet no one who Jesus ever touched fell over “slain.” Nor do we find Peter or John touching people and causing them to fall over. They did not ask other disciples to stand behind those they were going to lay hands on, to catch them as they toppled backward by the power. The New Testament has no people lining up waiting for the “anointing” to be passed on from another, not even the Apostles. Can you picture any of the Apostles running up to people and slapping them on the forehead, or lining people up to be slain? No soft music or repetitive choruses were sung to set an atmosphere for the anointing to fall. No one yelled repetitive phrases like, “Fire!” or “touch” or “More, Lord!” or “Take it” or “Receive it now”

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil." Matt 3:16 – 4:1

The power of the Holy Spirit is suppose to enable us overcome temptations as seen above. The power is suppose to get people up not put them down and out. At the gate Beautiful Peter said to the blind man, “silver and gold I have none, but in the name of Jesus, RISE UP and walk.” Most of these new anointed dispensers of power can’t say the same because silver and gold they have abundantly. The power of God got people up; those who were thrown to the ground shaking and having convulsions were not possessed by the Holy Spirit but often demon-possessed in need of deliverance. They were not reacting from receiving God’s power they were in need of God’s power for it to stop.

So where does this all come from in this latter days? Those who advocate the support and validate this practice need to consider what they are really attributing to the Holy Spirit. There is no Biblical precedent for being “slain in the Spirit” or “falling under the anointing of the Holy Spirit” as we see being practiced today.

Scriptures used to validate this as Biblical are:
Gen.15, 17:1-3; Josh.5:13-15; Ez.1:28, 43:1-5, 44:4; Mt.17:5-6; Rev. 7:11, 11:16-17; Acts 9.

Many fell backwards in Scripture, but it was not a blessing! In 1 Samuel 4:18: Eli fell off his seat backwards on hearing of the death of his sons and the capture of the Ark and he died. Isaiah 28:13 the prophet speaks of God’s Word sent to refresh, but if not heard it became a judgment “that they may go and stumble backward, and be broken.” In all these examples it is a judgment, not a blessing! In 1 Samuel 28:20 we read of Saul immediately collapsing “full length” on the ground upon hearing of his impending death from Samuel after consulting the witch of Endor.

2 Chronicles 5, describes God’s glory filling the newly completed Temple. It says, “The priests could not continue ministering , for the glory of the Lord filled the house of God” (v.14). This cannot be made into a normative occurrence for today’s Church, as many have tried to do. This was a celebration because the temple was completed, the ark was brought in and Solomon had the priests assemble inside the most holy place. Inside the glory manifested physically as cloud in a contained place, the rest of Israel was still standing outside. In 2 Chronicles 7:2 and I Kings 8:11 the priests could not enter the temple or perform the priestly duties of the LORD because the temple was filled with the glory of the LORD.

In Ezekiel 1:28 and 2:1 the prophet is overwhelmed by the vision he saw and falls forward in worship. Those who are holy fall forward in conscious submission to God’s Holy presence. They do not become dazed and confused, as in some spirit services today. Those who are enemies fall backward when confronted with God’s true power. Philippians 2 says every knee will bow. Those who are conscious of who they serve bow forward, willingly and fully conscious. Those who fall backward overwhelmed, show a lack of submission, and rebellion.

Daniel, in 10:4-11 encountered a powerful angel and said, “I had no strength left, my face turned deathly pale, and I was helpless, I fell into a deep sleep, my face to the ground.” Daniel fell on his face; he fell forward. This was not without purpose. Daniel, a prophet, was receiving revelation that would become Scripture. Since in the Old Testament those who were affected in this manner were not born again, indwelt permanently by the Holy Spirit, this experience cannot be used as normative for the Church today. When John saw Jesus glorified in heaven (Revelation 1:17) he describes that, ‘“I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.” John was overcome with fear; he did not recognize Him as the Jesus He knew on earth.
In examples from either the Old Testament or the New, the men affected did not have a permanent indwelling of the Spirit.

When the soldiers came to arrest Jesus, in John 18:4-6 He reveals His power in a unique way. He identified himself to the soldiers who were arresting him and they “drew back and fell to the ground.” Jesus first revealed Himself by saying His divine name, “I Am,” making it clear who it is they came for. When He identified Himself to them, they fell to the ground in judgment. These pagan sinners did fall -- backwards. They did not experience revelation or receive an anointing, or conversion, they got right back up and arrested Jesus. There was no change in them; they were still enemies of Jesus. Also, none of Jesus’ followers fell down during the arrest. Certainly none of this represents a pattern for the Church. Those who practice the artful ritual of being “slain in the Spirit” or “falling under anointing” today deny or ignore these Biblical facts in order to embrace an experience that is not endorsed in the Bible.

In Matthew 17:5-6 (NIV)

While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!" When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified.

The event at the mount of transfigurations. We see here the glory of God filled where they were all standing and Jesus was transformed right in front of His disciples. The glory was so much that made the disciples fell down in reference to the glory. Again, we do not see Jesus touching the disciples neither can we see someone standing at the back of the disciples to catch them.

Acts of the Apostles 9.

Saul was an unbeliever on his way to his next extermination. He was knocked to the ground by a light (the Shekinah glory), not someone called the anointed man slapping him or touching his head so he could fall as we have today and he had a revelation of Christ. When Saul fell, no one touched him and no one was there to catch him. The Scripture doesn’t actually say how he fell, but the Greek language seems to indicate he went to the ground on his own volition in reference to the great light. Jesus does not appear to be the source of Paul’s falling to the ground, Jesus did not allow Paul to remain on the ground, but told him to “arise and go into Damascus.” Remember Saul was unsaved at the time, but people who fall today all claim to be believers and Christians. So this does not provide any justification for regarding it as a model for believers to practice today. Saul was consciously carrying on a conversation with the Lord.

In Acts 26:14 Paul, recalling the event, stated all who were with him saw the light and fell to the ground, but only he heard the voice (Acts 22:9). This was an extreme measure designed to get Paul’s attention, as he was on his way to kill Christians. The others with Paul who also fell were unbelievers and stayed in their unbelieving state. Therefore, this incident involving falling to the ground (being slain by the Spirit) cannot be used to support the idea that it is a spiritual blessing, as commonly said today.

When we see Tele-evangelists blow on people they go down yet when Christ breathed on the disciples they did not. When Jesus touched people they did not fall. The biblical model is whenever the Spirit fell they were not expecting him. The Spirit is called the comforter, the helper another one like Jesus. When Jesus left he said he would send us another like himself. His role was to replace the physical Jesus by indwelling all believers giving them a relationship with God. The question we need to ask is did Jesus act this erratic and have power displays? If not then why should the Spirit act this way when he is to point to Jesus? Is this the nature of Jesus or something other than him is operating? How is it the person who dispenses this power that can knock people down, can stand through it all? That they can touch people even the catchers and they don’t go down during the service. How is the same person who just was felled over by his touch can afterward be hugged and not go over. Who then is in control if it only happens at the wave of his hand or when he says the word? Why does this only occur at the big crusades and where they meet for service and it does not take place during their days chores.

The only way to know the true from the false is to test it. Jesus had the greatest anointing, yet, when He prayed for people they did not fall over; neither did Jesus go down when He was anointed. The Spirit came upon him as a dove, as a gentle companion. This phenomena and practice is foreign to Scripture. Can the Holy Spirit be thrown around like a force? This Spirit goes where the conductor tells Him to go. Biblically we are to submit and take our guidance from the Spirit, this is the opposite. Jesus taught that the Holy Spirit goes where He will, He chooses how He will be known in the heart and life of a believer, and it is not for any man to decide when His abiding in another is to be.

John 3:8,
“The wind blows where it pleases, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot not tell where it came, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

No one knows where the Spirit comes from or where the Spirit goes. The Spirit is likened to the wind. Those who can dispense the anointing seem to tell the Spirit where to go and know where He will go next and what He or “it” will do. Think, my friend! Where do we find these experiences? Even the apostles did not have such experiences! What is operating? What is the source? Remember the Spirit is God himself who is supposedly thrown around the room. Whenever the presence came in the Old Testament all were affected but today the dispenser of this power stands strong while the participants all go down. Are they alone immune to its affects?

The Bible commands us to test it. Mature Christians test the spirits; babies, weak and carnal Christians avoid testing.

Hebrews 5:13-14 (NIV)

Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

By pursuing a blessing they have abandoned truth in place of a supernatural experience. In so doing they have inadvertently become open to deception by accepting this without any testing. People have succumbed to the oldest charade; in their pursuit of a blessing they have abandoned truth in place of a supernatural experience without ever testing the source for Biblical proof. Does the Bible show people line up in a church service in a row and have the power dispersed from an anointed person. There are no conduits for his power, Jesus has and always will be the baptizer of the Holy Spirit we don’t need any other mediator. Jesus is our example. When Jesus was anointed, the Spirit came upon him as a dove, not as a wild animal like a rhinoceros.

Jesus is the baptizer, who anoints with the Holy Spirit. The power really comes only from Christ, just what are people receiving through this experience? Do these displays of power become the convincing proof of God’s presence? John 10:41-42 records, “Then many came to Him and said, ‘John performed no sign, but all the things that John spoke about this Man were true.’ And many believed in Him there.” John convinced the people without a display of miracles. It was the truth that converted them and made them into followers. It is by knowing the truth (the Word) that keeps people following faithfully, not displays of power. We don’t need to be slain “in the Spirit”, but cut “by the Spirit,” the Word (John 6:63; Hebrews 4:12). One way is by expositional preaching the other is offered by experience. One comes by the Word that is objective, that teaches and convicts through the Holy Spirit, the other is subjective, by a person touching you or imparting a power. The Word is Biblical, the other is not.

Truly the ancient words of the prophet Hosea ring true for us today, as it did then, “MY PEOPLE ARE DESTROYED FOR A LACK OF KNOWLEDGE, BECAUSE THEY HAVE REJECTED KNOWLEDGE” (Hosea 4:6)

When experience replaces Biblical knowledge, we have abandoned God’s standard. Knowledge can be painful when it corrects us, but it can cost much more to follow falsehood, which by its nature is easy to swallow and soothing to those who refuse the truth.

I am using my phone now n cannot type much. I want us to look into every scriptures where people fell, what made them fall and compare to present day. I hope to address this in details by tomorrow,when I shall type from my computer. Lying wonders is in the bible and it is signs of the end time by false prophets. See you tomorrow sir.

I am using my phone now n cannot type much. I want us to look into every scriptures where people fell, what made them fall and compare to present day. I hope to address this in details by tomorrow,when I shall type from my computer. Lying wonders is in the bible and it is signs of the end time by false prophets. See you tomorrow sir.

[color=#990000]Have you nor read in the bible about LYING WONDERS?[/color]

@ musKeeto,
You didn't get me well. I said we are told to explain the process the process of a particular computer installations and operation, not exchanging ideas. My friend and I do the same thing in the same office but still, we still gave different explanations. So if you and I are to explain computer software installation now, don't you think any of us can skip a step or the other and yet doesn't mean we don't know what we are doing. This is the point am making. It is different from exchanging ideas to arrive at a solution. I hope you get my point.

^^^lol.

^^^ Are you aware there could be different reasons for different views? For instance, women are not regarded as children of household in family genealogies. What am saying is, there could always be reasons for over sight of an event. I don't really see it as contradiction rather, I see it as updates of event. This is what i mean in a true world, I attended interview with my friend working together in same office. We are to explain the process of a particular computer installations and operations, lo and behold, we both work in the same field and and office. We gave different step by step approach. Can we say we are both wrong? No. In our narration, we both skipped some steps but still arrived at same message. This is the angel am looking at it from.

I will attempt to answer all your question but however, I do not have enough time now as i might be going out soon. The meaning of Synoptic gospels is different authors with different story views. When you and I are to write on an event we both attended, we will definitely not write same thing but will have similarities more than differences. This is what the synoptic gospels means. There is not contradictions my brother.

Free will giving is what the new testament do. There should not be forcing any believer into doing anything in the church. My brothers, I reside in the USA and I weep in my heart how pastors use all kinds of gimmicks to take money from people. The people of God should be taught the importance and benefits of giving rather than using ungodly acts to take money from people. Should God's people support God's work? YES. Should pastors ask money when in need for the church? YES. Should pastors use gimmicks and ungodly means to cajole God's people to take money from them? NO. This is the problem with the church.

A man of God once brought in casket into a church here in the USA and he said God told him to do that. He said, the people should write whatever they want it to die in the lives and come drop into the casket but if they don't have anything they want it to die, they should bring a "SEED" in their hand to sow. I look at him and shake my head. This could not be God speaking to this pastor, his belly is speaking to him. Yes, it it true they needed money to spread the gospel and am not disputing that but using all sorts of ungodly acts not found in the bible is what i stand again.

Thank you all.

HELLO EVERYONE,

FIRST, I WILL LIKE TO SUGGEST FEW THINGS. WHATEVER WE ALL AGREE TO DO THEN WE CAN CONTINUE. THE FOLLOWING ARE MY FEW SUGGESTIONS:

1. BIBLE STUDY IS NOT BIBLE READING. SOMEONE LIKE ME CAN TAKE A WHOLE DAY TO LOOK INTO THE DEPTH OF JUST ONE VERSE AND CROSS REFERENCE IT. BIBLE STUDIES ALSO INVOLVES ALLOWING THE BIBLE TO EXPLAIN ITSELF AND NOT JUST SPILLING OUT ANYTHING OUT OF OUR MOUTH. HENCE, IT TAKES LONGER TIME LIKE JOAGBAJE SAID, WE CAN TAKE SEVERAL MONTHS ON ONE BOOK OF THE BIBLE, KEEP IN MIND ALSO QUESTIONS WILL GENERATE AND THIS WILL SLOW US DOWN. THEREFORE, MY FIRST SUGGESTION IS THAT WE DO ONLY NEW TESTAMENT AS ONLY NEW TESTAMENT APPLIES TO US IN THIS PRESENT TIME. THIS IS HOW I BELIEVE SO,

Hebrews 1:1-5 (NIV)

In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?

In context, the bible is divided into three (3) different ages of time. Below are the divisions:

1. The Patriarch Age: Genesis to Exodus 19.

This age and period existed from Genesis to exodus 19, where the children of Israel was free from Egyptian slavery and the nation of Israel formed and then the Law was given to them. This Age and period is also known or called the pre-law age. During this time, God spoke to man through fathers or patriarchs of each family and sometimes through angels in order to communicate God's will, testament or covenant.

A testament simply means, a will, contract, an agreement or a covenant which God established with/for man. The Old testament Laws were for people who lived before and during Christ. The new testament Laws of Christ are for all of us who came after the death of Christ. The cross divided the old and new testament. Therefore, the bible as it regards to old testament is not a set of book from Genesis to Malachi but rather Exodus 20 to Gospel of John in context.

2. The Israelites or Jewish Age. Exodus 20 - Death of Christ.

God in his covenant (testament) with the seed of Abraham could not establish His will or testament with the children of Israel when they are in bondage in Egypt. God had to first bring them out first to fulfill His covenant or agreement he made with Abraham. Exodus 20 accomplished that purpose and the nation of Israel was established. During this period, many things took place such as, the law was given, God appointed Prophets, Kings, Judges, etc hence we have books of the bible such as the prophets, kings, wisdom books etc. Christ was born under the law and lived under the law. During this time of Christ living under the law, Christ was also establishing the new law which will take effect after His death and will thereafter be called the new testament.

"So now I (JESUS) am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples." John 13:34-35, NLT


3. The Christian Age. Acts of the Apostles to Revelation.

This is the third age and time. It is named after Christ. It is the last and final age. This is the age and times we are today and will continue till the return of Christ.

Biblically and speaking the truth, we do not have anything to do with the laws and pre-law EXCEPT for learning from examples of things such as faith, love and obedience as it is also found and applies to us in our new commandment/testament. 1 Cor. 10:11 says, These things happened to them (the Israelites) as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. Heb 8:13,NIV

That first covenant between God and Israel had regulations for worship and a place of worship here on earth. Heb 9:1, NLT.

having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. Colossians 2:14, NIV.

For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. Heb 9:15-17, NIV

and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch. Acts 11: 26, NIV

When he found him, he brought him back to Antioch. Both of them stayed there with the church for a full year, teaching large crowds of people. (It was at Antioch that the believers were first called Christians.) Acts 11:26 NLT

So this is why I believe we should do only the new testament if at all we should attempt this course. Let us also bear in mind, IT WILL TAKE A LOT OT TIME.

2. I WANT SO SUGGEST WE SHOULD JUST ENLIGHTEN OURSELVES HOW TO DO A COMPREHENSIVE BIBLE STUDY HERE RATHER THAN WE ACTUALLY DOING IT HERE AND THEN EACH OF US CAN GO PERSONAL BIBLE STUDIES.

3. JOAGBAGE SUGGESTED WE DEAL WITH TOPICS. I THINK I SUPPORT WE DO TOPICS ALSO. BIBLE STUDIES IN MY OPINION IS A GOOD IDEA BUT IT WILL TAKE FOREVER, ESPECIALLY ON THIS KIND OF FORUM.

THANK YOU GUYS.