₦airaland Forum

Interesting!

@ enilove, I'll respond in details later.

Goshen360:
...to be continue

I'll later be exploring\teaching some Christian virtue such as prayer, blessings\curses, faith, love, deliverance, repentance, forgiveness etc before and after the cross.

Today, I'll be doing the prayer in the OT way (before the cross) vs prayer in the NT way (after the cross). Many Christians are still being frustrated because they pray so much but don't get answers and as such, they conclude God doesn't answer prayers or give up praying. This is because, the system of praying before the cross is invalid in the praying system after the cross - many are still using praying to ask God to do something he had already done instead of using praying to receive what is already done.

Before the cross, pray used to be asking God to do something for one but after the cross, prayer is believing and receiving what is done. After the cross, prayer is not asking God to do same thing he had already done over and over again but praying what he already did, believing and receiving it. Prayer is good and still very much valid in the NT but someone can take what is good and turn into a religious exercise and exercise in futility. Let us take few examples:

King James Bible
And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast, and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me! And God granted him that which he requested.
1 Chronicles 4:10

The prayer of Jabez to a NT believer under the blood of Christ is such an example of an exercise in futility though valid under that covenant, hence we read God granted him his requested. Today, many still believing and praying such prayers instead of receiving the blessings already available to them IN CHRIST or as a result of Christ's finished work. And God looking at them saying, you're asking me to do what I have already done? Much of the prayers after the cross is for God to open the eyes of understanding of believers to the revelation knowledge of what is already available for them in Christ via the finished works of Christ.

Highlights from prayer of Jabez vs praying after the cross:

...Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast...

God said to you, who are in Christ and who Christ died for, I have already blessed you. This is God's Grace - this is, you're getting what you don't deserve just because you're in Christ.

New International Version
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. Ephesians 1:3

...and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil...

Jabez used prayer to ask God to be with him and keep him from evil. But after the cross, to you in Christ and who Christ died for, he said this:

American King James Version
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as you have: for he (God) has said, I will never leave you, nor forsake you.
Hebrews 13:5

When the righteous pray the prayer of a righteous man, you give access to heaven to bring to you, what is already available for you in Christ but when the righteous in Christ continue to pray the ineffectual fervent prayer of a righteous man, heaven stand still. The cross has changed everything! Start praying after the pattern of the cross (in the finished works) of Christ and get results!

plappville:
Why then the apostles still refer to it?

I was going to respond in details to your quest but my brother above had done much work but I'll later add more. You are still looking at the OT being quoted in the NT as a STANDALONE scriptures instead, see these quoting from OT in the NT as the Apostles explaining those scriptures IN THE LIGHT OF THE FINISHED WORKS OF CHRIST OR IN THE REVELATION OF CHRIST.

Berean Literal Bible
And having begun from Moses and from all the Prophets, He interpreted to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.
Luke 24:27

So, with this understanding to us in this age\time\dispensation, how should be study the OT (I never said we shouldn't read or study the OT no more), we should stop reading\studying the OT as if Christ HAD NOT gone to the cross; we should study it in the revelation, understanding and light of the finished works of Christ.

I will explain more when I treat the Christian virtues in the OP using some OT examples and NT ways in the finished works of Christ as taught my the Apostles

Gombs:
He should just stop mentioning me in his posts... Is it too much to ask?

It's not too much to ask but you're involved in this discussion so why he can't mention you? Anyway, nothing do you! You have a right or just ignore the mention.

Gombs:
^^
Stop mentioning me in your posts.

Thanks

Why can't nobody mention you? Does your I'd has immunity against anyone mentioning you or calling you out?

sportsmaster:
To be Honest,
Many of these Pastors never follow the examples of the Apostles.

Hardly did any writer of the epistles emphasized material prosperity.
I have searched and searched and searched in have never found.

There was no instruction to even pray for material things in the Epistles.

There is very very little emphasis on materials things throughout the Epistles.

Many Pastors that we have today never follow these examples.

Its so so disappointing.

Apostle was Paul who wrote more than 2/3 of the epistles.
His prayers were much more emphatic on "REVELATION KNOWLEDGE" emphasis was much more laid on knowing the office of Christ.

See Eph1:16-23,
Eph3:14-21,
Col1:9-11,
Phillipians1:9-11,
Philemon1:6,

there was also emphasis on Ministry,
preaching and teaching sound doctrine.
Read 1tim,2tim,Titus.

There is very very very little or no emphasis on material things.

Paul simply affirmed God's faithfulness to provide our needs in
Philippians 4:19.

Cc vooks,Gombs,Goshen360.

Image123,Joagbaje

God bless you. You see, I've noticed one thing especially with people like Gombs and Joe and their allies, they will depend anything coming out from their pastor or organization irrespective of sound doctrine. So, most times, I stay out of argument with them because their mind is made up already.

[quote author=Gombs post=38900477][/quote]As though looking for my errors. You know, to you guys, if it's not taught or agreed with what's being taught in CE, then it's error.

You should know better what I intended to type. I don correct the typo error.

Joagbaje:
And what is disgusting there ? You complain Christian are poor , then someone's comes to teach them how to prosper and shows them what's available to them . We call it disgusting.

Look, the problem is, you can defend these guys and their allies all the way. I, personally care less but my personal issue is, I will stand for the truth even if it's my pastor that preaches error.

Creflo, by that statement made it look as if the ONLY reason why Jesus died is for us to lay hold on FINANCIAL PROSPERITY, WEALTHY LIVING. I do not say Christians should be poor but we've talked about this before, scripture prosperity goes beyond just money but these guys keep yapping money money as if money is everything.

vooks:
Disgusting!


Gombs, Joagbaje,MutleyLaff,Sportsmaster,Image123,Goshen360

Don't mind Creflo jare. He teaches and preach Grace of God now but he can't get away from the so called "prosperity gospel" being mixed with the gospel of the grace of God.

Hiswordxray:
I thought I had concluded. Although I still have some other write up connect to this topic but I haven't posted them yet.

What kind of conclusion where you expecting?

My bad then. I assumed you wanted to conclude because of the 2nd space immediately after that was kept empty so I thought you'd reserved for the conclusion. Anyway, nice write up.

agarawu23:
Happy Sunday people

We were taught God has the power of forgiving us our sins, how are we sure the last prayer we did begging God for forgiveness were accepted?

Is there any signs that will make us know God has forgiven us?

Anytime i pray and ask God for forgiveness, i begin to wonder if God has truly cancelled my old sins

Is there a special way to ask God for forgiveness that will give us assurance that He has forgiven us?

What are the signs?

Religion guru's, over to you

I think it's quite simple:

1 - Whatsoever you pray for, BELIEVE! You can't be praying for something and then you doubting the very essence or reason for you praying.

2. You will or should have PEACE in your mind. Romans 5:1. To be justified means, as though it never happened. Then, peace will follow.

3 - If #2 above doesn't follow, perhaps, you're judging and\or condemning yourself and still holding guilt against yourself which doesn't mean forgiveness has not taken place. Romans 8:33 is your best scripture here.

inositol88:
First of all take note that am not an atheist, just a realist! I believe in the fact that the holy spirit exist, am equally aware of the fact that the holy spirit teaches us to pray and even gives the gift of tongues as it happened on the day of Pentecost.

But the rate at which people speak in tongues this days makes me begin to wonder if the holy spirit seeks your permission before coming upon u when praying.

I was passing beside a church last week, and to my utmost bewilderment, I heard the head pastor saying "if don't know how to speak in tongues please come out let me pray for you so can start speaking in. tongues fluently"

Then the following questions were stirred up in my heart and I decide to bring them here for a better clarification

1. when Christ's deciples spoke in tongues, it was understood by people around them, how come we don't understand even a word when people speak in tongues dis days?

2.must you speak in tongues before God answers your prayers?

3. is speaking in tongues spirit controlled or human controlled??

These questions really need your answers!!!

1. First understand, there're two (2) kinds of tongues: sign tongue and prayer tongue. Sign tongues is what the Apostles spoke in the day of Pentecost. It was supernaturally given to them by God through the Spirit for the purpose of spreading the word and fulfillment to the prophesy in Joel. If it is not a sign tongue, there's no way a man will speak a language he never learned nor understand and everyone listening to him will understand what he's saying. Also, there's a prayer tongue Apostle Paul taught to the Corinthians. He said this:

New Living Translation
For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won't be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious.

Here, you speak to God in pray.
No one understand you but people understood what was spoken in Acts
You are talking to God ONLY but in Acts, they were talking to other men
Here is mysterious but in Acts, it was intelligent language

b - The truth is, many do not know the difference and the church had help to abuse\confuse tongues. Paul taught, If you're speaking in tongues IN THE PUBLIC WORSHIP PLACE without no one understanding you and without interpretation, you should keep quiet. People will think it's madness! So he taught, when you pray\speak to God, since no one understand you, do it in your own privacy NOT in the public.

2. No!

3. Spirit controlled but one of the gifts of the Spirit is also self control. The Spirit don't operate like a robot.

starlingslimnet:
Even the cross has nothing to do with Christianity

Don't worry, you'll understand with time.

jiggaz:
Excellent post. The Cross changed so many things for Christians, but its a pity that so many Christians are still laboring under the law out of ignorance. They keep mixing Christianity with Judaism.

You're most welcome my brother!

starlingslimnet:
If I may ask what is the point of this thread?

^ ^ ^

For I resolved to know nothing (to be acquainted with nothing, to make a display of the knowledge of nothing, and to be conscious of nothing) among you (Christians) except Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and Him crucified.
1 Corinthians 2:2

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Acts 26:18

starlingslimnet:
Shut up and Learn wisdom. Do you sin when you read the Old testament?

I have a problem with doctrinated people like you and people of the religion. Can you understand the book of revelation without book of Daniel and Ezekiel?

How will you know about Lucifer if the Old testament did not reveal him?

How will you know your origin if Genesis does not speak of it?

How will you know Jesus is the Christ if Isaiah did not describe the sufferings of the Messiah?

Be calm and Learn from others.

I think you should first learn manners before coming to the public to express your views. It's forum for discussion and not for personal issues. And who told you I don't read\study the old? Obviously, you misunderstood everything. How do you read\understand the old after Christ has now fulfill what the old talked about in the new?

...to be continue

I'll later be exploring\teaching some Christian virtue such as prayer, blessings\curses, faith, love, deliverance, repentance, forgiveness etc before and after the cross.

Does the cross of Christ changed anything? Absolutely YES! Take a look:

King James Bible
And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Luke 18:18 - 22

In this scripture, Jesus gave "keeping the 10 commandments" as answers to having eternal life. This is BEFORE the cross and somehow it is valid because the old testament was still in force at this time. Unknown to many that still advocate adherence to the 10 commandments, Christ through the law had to buried the people under the law in order to redeem them from the law - a subject for another time.

King James Bible
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Acts 16:30-31

Here, the answer to same question asked in Luke 18 was, "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ". This is AFTER Christ had gone to the cross. There is absolute no one that I know of the still follow the requirement in Luke for salvation. What has changed? The Cross! Before the cross, it was obedience to the law. After the cross, it is obedience to the faith in Christ (and his finished works)

1 Corinthians 1:23
We preach Christ (the Messiah) crucified, [preaching which] to the Jews is a scandal and an offensive stumbling block [that springs a snare or trap], and to the Gentiles it is absurd and utterly unphilosophical nonsense.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I resolved to know nothing (to be acquainted with nothing, to make a display of the knowledge of nothing, and to be conscious of nothing) among you except Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and Him crucified.

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)


Many Christians today do not understand the message of the cross - Christ and him crucified. We're taught and being taught to live the Christian life AS IF Christ had not died and not being crucified. So, we're like the man who enters a store, purchase everything he needed but when it's payment time; he uses an invalid credit credit hoping to make payment and after many attempt, he became frustrated just to later found out when he got home that he'd been using an invalid credit or expired credit card.

Many, today still preach the the old testament AS IF it still valid and in force - to such, Christ had not gone to the cross. Many still teach\preach the old testament AS IF we still live under it INSTEAD OF teaching\preaching the old testament IN THE LIGHT AND REVELATION of Christ and His finished works. Many still teach\preach everything they read in the bible AS IF everything is suppose to be a Christian doctrine.

The cross of Christ is not what we religiously wear as a cross symbol on our neck neither is it just a picture of someone hanging on the tree nor picture of three trees as we're taught in our childhood - the cross of Christ is a message, preached by the Apostles (1 Corinthians 1:23) and is expected to be lived out as a Christian lifestyle (1 Corinthians 2:2). The cross of Christ is a great divider between the old and new covenant of God and it changes EVERYTHING because right on that cross, our Lord concluded, IT IS FINISHED!

Great post! Waiting for the conclusion.

The old testament is a shadow pointing to Christ as the substance. Now that the substance has been revealed, who and what are we as Christians suppose to be looking up to?

The Old testament is completely different from the new. They are like water and oil that cannot mix. I agree we can see Christ in the old but let's think we our God given regenerated mind - if God canceled the old to establish the new, why do you think the old is still valid on Christians other than for us to see Christ and his finished works in it?

2 - Are we suppose to teach or preach the old testament to Christians today AS IF IT IS STILL VALID on us or we're to teach\preach the old testament IN THE LIGHT\REVELATION of the finished works of Christ since the new has now fulfilled the old and Christ now revealed in his finished works?

3. Almost every subjects in the old is taught differently under the new to show the covenant doesn't run side-by-side with each other. E.g Blessings, salvation, faith, love, obedience etc.

ybman:
God bless u sir, If u had taking ur time to read the bible verse Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curses of the law and cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree. Whatever challenge u have that Jesus don't have means that u are still hanging on a tree... Its time to come down from that tree. God bless you.

Are you by any means referring to "cursed is everyone that hang on the tree" to anyone other than Christ?

ybman:
God bless u sir, If u had taking ur time to read the bible verse Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curses of the law and cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree. Whatever challenge u have that Jesus don't have means that u are still hanging on a tree... Its time to come down from that tree. God bless you.

What kind of thing or interpretation is that? Where do you guys get that from? Anyway, I'll be back to deal with this. ..make I go work come back.

False gospel sir!

If you say and agree Christ has already redeemed us from curses of the law. Why then are you guys still preaching breaking generational curse and why are you still organizing\attending curse breaking service? Does that mean you people don't believe in what Christ had done or he redeemed you from nothing?

Hildalicious:
1 - my husband and i are young couple who just got married last week, my husband is an official member of a leading Pentecostal church and he takes his religion seriously – so much so that he always recoils at the idea of having MouthAction.

2 - he says it’s against the teachings of the Bible. This makes me sad. I am a Christian myself and I go to a reputable church from time to time. his attitude really upset me,

3 - I know a lot of our religious friends who are happy in fulfilling sexual relationships, why should our situation be different? At times I even wonder if he not hiding something from me.


4 - I asked him to reach some sort of compromise by allowing me to give him MouthAction but he says it is against his religious beliefs .


5 - It seems as if he is using his religion as excuses, What can I do? should i end the marriage ?

There're so many things to be talked about here so I have broken down in the order we'll talk about it or I will respond to your quest.

1 - In all, it looks to me as if you guys didn't communicate this issue or subject before marriage hence, the outcome you have now. There're so many things wrong in religion mixed with Christianity. I do not judge your husband but I assume he might be deep in religion without understanding Christianity. That takes me to #2.

2 - Where in scripture (by inference or in plain language) does the bible stipulate how married couples should satisfy themselves if he's saying it is against the teaching of the bible. And people shouldn't be quoting old testament as if we still live under that covenant in Christianity. You both need sit down and look into such verse if there is. Marriage is all about sacrifice and satisfaction - to be enjoyed not endured. Ask your husband to show such scriptures if that's his excuse because I don't know of any instruction for married couples so If he's giving excuses based on scriptures, then you know he's right.

3 - He might not be hiding anything from you. Una women sef, na so una dey think.... . I think you guys probably didn't talk about things like this before marriage so you both know where both of you stand.

4 - Sure, you husband will be sinning if he allows you against his belief but it's something you have to talk about. Someone's belief might be based on false or mis information or knowledge of scriptures as a Christian. Paul said, someone eat meat offered to idol with the knowledge that idol is nothing before God while another eat with the knowledge that meat offered to idol will hurt him....my paraphrase. He then said, whatsoever is done out of faith is sin. So, your husband because of his knowledge will be sinning if he allows them. His compromise will first come if you put in time and scripture based knowledge to let him understand God doesn't stipulate how married couples enjoy themselves in marriage - there's no one size fits all in marriage. Some like it some don't but the big problem here is communication which probably wasn't done before marriage.

5 - Well, like I said, religion is far from Christianity. You need to put in time to work on him to help him take religion out of Christianity. It's too early to think of ending a one week marriage. You haven't even endured nothing yet in your marriage as many things will or might come up. You also need sacrifice too with patience. Sometimes, strategy when and how you talk the issue to him matters....maybe in his happy mood. Little thing as thing should make the decision for you to end your marriage, that will be a selfish and childish thing to do.

Gombs:
Spot on.... Very correct.

Goshen however wants me to believe the preaching Jesus did was dashing monies to the poor!

I thought you knew what you're talking about. ... . I said that to pinpoint your usage of that verse saying Christ was preaching prosperity gospel because that verse said he went about preaching the gospel to the poor and since we both agreed he wasn't going around dashing people, the poor money. Apparently, the poor in that verse are people without the gospel but you keep going in circles. Stop using scriptures to say what you want to say, let scriptures speak for themselves.

You go fear @ NY Time Square at night...

Gombs:
In the basic context... Poor... Baje.. Ogbonye...talaka... Etc

You, go sidon some where joor. But he wasn't giving the talakas money naw, was he? He was sent to and was preaching to them - That explains the poor they were. Simple! If you have other meaning, say so or we forget about this. ..I've made my point clear.

Joagbaje:
Firstly you must work as a principle ,

Give as a principle

Trust God as a principle

Those are the major steps against poverty. If you want relevant scripture I may quote them.

So it means anyone can be rich following these principles whether christian or not right?

Joagbaje:
Ma bu mi o.

The bible speak for itself . The poor refers to those lacking materially . Physical poverty just as the good news to the blind is to the physically blind and healing was brought to them . The good news to the poor is their inheritance in God t which grants them dominion over lack or poverty

Fair enough!

I asked your boy, Gombs same question and he kept dragging his feet on this thread but at least, you are straight forward. Mi o bu yi sir, mo Ko n so akiyesi mi ni o.

Sir, if Christ didn't go about dashing people considered "poor" in an attempt to preaching the "gospel to the poor", doesn't that scripture explain itself that the poor are those that have not heard the gospel preached to them. ..something with another phrase, "poor in their spirit" man?

Haven't you read in scripture where one church said she was rich or wealthy but the Lord said she was poor wretched? So that tells me someone having money or riches doesn't mean he or she is not poor. He's poor BECAUSE HE OR SHE IS WITHOUT THE GOSPEL PREACHED UN TO HIM OR HER, not because he has money or not.

PLUS, there's no such thing as prosperity gospel please erase such from your bible know and follow the path of truth. It is the gospel that produce prosperity not the other way round.

Joagbaje:
Luke 4:18 (KJV)
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Mat 11:4 — Mat 11:5 (KJV)
4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

Again, "poor have the gospel preached to them"...poor in what sense or context? It looks to me as if you guys have mastered a trade or techniques and you're not backing out of it.