₦airaland Forum

Maser:
Don't even pay tithes at all. It's the biggest fraud in christendom. Use that money to help the poor in the church instead and God will bless you.

Read Deut 14:22-end. I'm sure your pastor always quotes from malachi not this scripture. Anyways, Tithing was for old testament jewish farmers who followed the mosaic law. The beneficiaries who normally ate from it were you, your family, and a part goes to strangers in the land, the poor and the levites (not pastors). I don't have time to expatiate but don't fall for Pastor's intimidation with the 'malachi curse'. It took me years to break free from their stranglehold on this issue. New Testament only recommends cheerful giving.

You're GRACED in Christ!

hifaif:
I was reading a book by Bishop David Oyedepo titled The Healing Balm. In one of the chapters, Oyedepo said believers are not meant to fall sick because Jesus didn't fall sick.

But there is a passage in the bible that confirms or suggests that Jesus was most of the time unwell. Read Isaiah 53:1-12. In this passage, it is even revealed that Jesus was so ugly and sick almost all the time that men thought he was afflicted by God.

You and Oyedepo are wrong!

You are wrong in the sense that, Christ never was sick in his body. The passage you quoted described The Suffering of the Messiah by the way of the Cross. It has nothing to do with physical sickness in the body.

Oyedepo on the other hand; A Christian can fall sick due to many reasons (malnutrition, infection etc) even though healing is already available in the finished works of Christ and in His blood.

elantraceey:
Give me the scripture please and I'll show you where he thanked the Philippians for there gift and supplies that they always sent to him and for taking care of him and he added it was for their good.

Me think say you sabi pass this your response:

When people are taught in the word, they receive the word and remember their teacher(s) in the word. Such is the case of the Philippians. As for the Corinthians where Paul "argued" for ministry support. You already know such is a case of a "carnal or baby" Christian. You never read Paul instructing for "dangerous seed sowing, red-sea must part seed\offering, Arsenal seed\offerings, I-must-marry-this-year seed\offering" etc.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
Romans 4:4

New Living Translation
We work wearily with our own hands to earn our living. We bless those who curse us. We are patient with those who abuse us.
1 Corinthians 4:12

Can I say something here at this point, Pastoring like it is in Nigeria IS NOT A JOB, It is a ministry GIFT! (Ephesians 4:11) Our Pastors should get a job!

argob44:
ITS YOUR SECURITY LEVY... By Pastor David Okoye

"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings" Malachi 3:8

No Christian would ever agree that he is a thief but yet in God's house, we have persons who steal from God without knowing they have.

Most persons readily give their offerings but are still yet to be disciplined in the aspect of their tithing.

Tithe is the 10% of a received income of all your earnings, which belongs to God, and requested for by him.

As tax payment prevents the government from seizing your properties so also tithe payment rebuke and prevent the devourer from attacking you.

In essence we could say that tithe is a spiritual security levy, if your spiritual tax is not paid, then your spiritual properties will be confiscated. Worthy of note is the fact that giving your tithe doesn't help God or your pastors but you are at the forefront of all benefits.

Tithes are paid/ given in your church and not to a man. It can never take the place of alms giving, or seed or offering, tithing is a principle that can never be negotiated. When you consistently pay your tithe, you take yourself out of harm's way.

No matter how little or how large, never have an excuse to fault the principles of tithing. If it is not paid the devourer cannot be rebuked for your sake.

DECLARATION: I am a diligent and consistent tither. And as I tithe I reap the benefits in return.

SCRIPTURAL REFERENCE: Malachi 3:10-12

Culled from Ambassadors Diet (A Daily Devotional)

Tithe had been dealt with so much on this forum. Please do yourself a big favour, study to show yourself approved unto God, not to man. You'll realise you've been deceived on the matter of tithe for too long. The same man that tells you you're no more under the old covenant still glue to the tithe verses in the old, twist it and serve it to you as Christian. Set yourself free from religious fraud. Don't ever think someone else that knows more than you cannot deceive you in the name of God\gods.....It's called religious fraud.

An2elect2:
Lol ive been around.... yea... am fine in Christ, though i fall many times like a baby learning to walk, am glad he cant let me fall out of His loving arms. Look am fine, you guys don't frequent here anymore, whatsup?...

Yes, we\I don't frequent here like that since many things went wrong in this section but I'm very sure we peep into topics from time to time. I, personally I'm very busy now with work and preparation for home coming next month and might start an invitation thread later next week or two to see how we can come together outside of this forum.

When you fall, you learn and make corrections and move on. Off course you can't fall out of his love because God's love is greater than you yourself. There're consequences for our mistakes or when we miss the mark but you're still His beloved, you're still righteous. In all, a child is not meant to be a child forever to to grow and mature. It will happen with time!

plappville:
NICE! I Thank God this piece you posted there.

I don catch you today.... So you don come out of hiding right?

Bien sûr, vous et la famille se portent bien dans le Seigneur

ayoku777:
God didn't kill them, Elisha did.

Don't judge the character of God by all the actions of His prophets.

1Cor 14v32 says; ...the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

Meaning God gives His prophets some autonomy in the use of His authority. Meaning it is not everything a prophet does with his God-given authority that reflects the character of God in that situation.

When God gives you power and the authority to use His name with results, what you do will have results; even so that doesn't mean that what you did reflects the character of God. No it reflects the character of the prophet.

That's why there is a difference between the gifts of the Spirit and the fruit of the Spirit. You can have the gifts without the fruit. Gifts are given, fruits are grown. Not every prophet who had the gifts of the Spirit walked in it in proportionate measure of the fruit of the Spirit.

God told Moses to speak to the rock so water will come out. Moses in anger hit the rock with his staff (the symbol of his authority) and the water still gushed out. (Numbers 20v8-11)

Meaning a prophet can use the authority God gave Him in a wrong attitude and it will still have results. Yet that doesn't reflect the character of God. God was very displeased with Moses. (Numbers 20v12)

Elijah also called down fire at will on anyone who opposed him in the name of God. Yet when the disciples of Jesus asked Him to do the same; He rebuked them sharply and in no uncertain terms. (2Kings 1v9-12; Luke 9v54-55)

Jesus Christ is the Word of God; the communication of the character of God. He is the brigthness of God's glory and the express image of His person.

If you want to really know God; look at Him through the life and character of Christ; not just through the lens of everything His prophets did in His name.

The biblical patriachs, prophets, kings and saints did their best; within the limitations of the Adamic nature and of the old covenant. But only Christ embodies the true nature and character of God in man.

Have this context in mind when you read the scriptures.

God bless.

I'm Goshen360 and I co-sign this message!

starlingslimnet:
Lol because I didn't add the Scripture to it.... now here it is Romans 14:22 "The Faith that you have keep between yourself and God; Happy is he who has No reason to Judge himself for what. he approves" I don't just flourish my words with Scriptures all over because Truth needs No excess explanation only lies requires much explanation. Once again I say God help you with your Faith. Bye.

Chai, God help you brother! Anyway, follow context!!! Cele people also believes and have faith in their rituals and I guess they're right and it's between them and God. Bottom line, a man can use faith positively in a right course and also positively in a wrong course. I'll let this slide for now.

^ You self, na wha for you o! Where you been hiding like me all these days? Sure you doing great though

starlingslimnet:
"the Faith you have keep between yourself and God" This is the answers God gave me when people hold wrong opinion.

There's no such thing as one's opinion and God told me or gave me this and that answer. All scriptures must be prove for truth to be held. I will let it slide if you're not willing to discuss but please, don't join those promoting obedience to the law by faith to Christians because both don't mix.

From your first line: The Jews could not uphold the Law because they didn't seek it with Faith I already know you have most Christians including you have a mis-matched concept of faith & law. When a man has a wrong digestion of one scripture, every other scripture will fall in the the wrong soil. Same with the man with good digestion. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong but you should allow discussion to test what you have known over years if you're rightly taught or not.

Asking a simple question, how do we uphold the law by faith since the law is not of faith? Scripture didn't say the Jews couldn't uphold the law because they didn't seek it with faith. It says the law ITSELF IS NOT OF FAITH. So, how do you\we keep the law by faith that it is not of?

Lastly, I can respond to everything you said but, let's put it this way: do you understand what it says from scriptures when you made the first statement?

New International Version
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.
Romans 9:30 - 32

I want to believe your first statement was taken from the underlined verse above but do you understand what the Apostle was teaching to the church via Israel as example?

starlingslimnet:
I don't get involved in hypocritical questions but for the sake of the viewers I will answer you briefly.

The Jews could not uphold the Law because they didn't seek it with Faith. Apostle Paul under the command of the Holy Spirit says " The Law is Spiritual".And I will have you remember what Moses who received the Law told the Isrealites the requirement of the Law "Circumcise then the foreskin of your heart" Deut 10:16 which is the samething as Faith explained by the same Apostle Paul in Romans 2:29.Now the Law is Spiritual and the unspiritual man does not understand the things of the Spirit and as far as the Jew is concerned Stephen confronts the Jews under the power of the Spirit that "They always resist the Holy Spirit" thus creating No room for the keeping of the Law by Faith rather they seek to keep it by their power.To this end the Son of GOD came to fulfil the Law by Meeting tbe requirement submission to the will of the Father and by that submission the just requirement of the Law is fulfilled.

The Law doesn't make you a sinner but sin make you a sinner.

Then Upholding the Law is seeking it with Faith and observing it in the Spirit. Christ came to give us power to keep GOD commandment and not the other way round.

God help you with your Faith. Bye

Thanks but you should be ready to discuss and not just say bye just like that....

I'm willing to respond to everything you wrote line-by-line if you're ready to discuss. Your understanding of the whole concept and purpose of the law by the such as the mis-matched purpose and concept of God which many law advocates promote within Christianity.

starlingslimnet:
Question is how many Sabbath is in the Scripture?

Rilwayne001:
LOL
Which one is shadow or substance sabbath??
Jesus actually kept the sabbath whe he went to Nazareth according to Luke…

So both of you don't know there're TWO KINDS of SABBATH in scriptures right? Chai.... How we wan even trust wetin una dey talk sef....

starlingslimnet:
Because of Romans 7:12

Romans 7:12 says,

So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

Yes, the law is holy but doesn't stop you from sinning but rather makes you a sinner. It is righteous but doesn't make you righteous and good neither. When you take a text out of context, you're left with CON.... . The question is, how do we uphold the law since also Galatians 3:12 declares, the LAW IS NOT OF FAITH abi no be same Apostle Paul write the 2 scriptures? Do we uphold the law BY KEEPING IT OR WHAT? And if we're keeping it, how? BY FAITH or THROUGH FAITH? If Yes, How can we keep or uphold the law by what the law is not made of, that is, the law is not of faith so how do we uphold the law by same faith it is not of?

Please consider this:

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is heaven is perfect—Matthew 5:48

vs

For by a single offering He (Christ) has forever completely cleansed and perfected those who are consecrated and made holy - Hebrews 10:14, Amplified Bible (AMP)

Will you rather work to BE YE THEREFORE PERFECT or will you rest in His finished works wherein He has already perfected you forever? Through the Law, I die to the law is the hidden mysteries of Christ's teachings to those under the law so he can redeem them from under the law.

Check it out! A perfect man is the one who Christ has already perfected forever through His Death, Burial & Resurrection!

voltron:
Amen.. please add Handwork, Commitment, Integrity and True Righteousness to Grace.. My ex-Boss got to the top and claims it was Grace.. he is incompetent, dishonest, lacks integrity and is insecure and yet an area Pastor. He was sacked last year by the board for obvious reasons.. Grace can get you there but your preparations for the job will keep you there

Thank you!

Rilwayne001:
Well, since Paul has abrogated YAHWEH'S commandment, and paul as we know is the founder of today xtianity, therefore don't keep sabath.

But forreal, jesus kept sabath according to the bible.

Which Sabbath did Jesus kept? Shadow or Substance Sabbath?

starlingslimnet:
"Do we then overthrow the Law by this Faith?By No means! on the contrary we uphold the Law" Romans 3:31

Question, how do you\we uphold the law BY FAITH since Galatians 3:12 declares, the LAW IS NOT OF FAITH?

This vooks guy bad ooo....

The two evidences of the Holy Spirit in believers in Christ are the GIFTS and FRUITS of the Spirit. The gifts are subject to as the Spirit distribute but the fruits are produced just as a result of the Spirit residing in the believer.

The rest you said as regard sin, has nothing to do with the Spirit because He will never leave you alone nor forsake you just because you sin. He will help you not to sin but the choice to sin or not is still on you. Sin temptation comes with or without the Holy Spirit. He's there to help your weaknesses and build you up. This isn't the covenant of "take not thy Holy Spirit from me", this is the covenant of "you have been sealed with the Spirit". I don't even know how you can loose yourself if you're sealed with the Spirit.

truthman2012:
Are trying to rewrite the bible to suit your argument? In Jeremiah 31:33, God said He would put His LAW in our mind and write it in our heart. This was fulfilled in Hebrews 10:16. Go and read them again and again.

Again, this law is the law of the Spirit NOT the mosaic law.

truthman2012:
Christ didn't redeem man from the Law but from the CURSE of the law (Galatian 3:13) The law becomes a curse when you are required to keep it compulsorily and you lack the ability to keep.

Curses of the law is partial to complete redemption from the law....HE said, TO REDEEM THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW. This is the beauty of the finished works of Christ. Romans 7 then says, we have disengaged with the law, we have no intercourse whatsoever with the law because we're married to another, the resurrected Christ.

truthman2012:
I'm eagerly waiting to read from you what law God promised in the OT to put in our heart in the NT if not the existing laws, which Jesus himself fulfilled.

God bless you too bro.

You probably just want to believe what you want. I mentioned this, this law is not the existing law even though you find yourself doing things contained in the existing law. Did God put the law in you or His Spirit?

malvisguy212:
among your conclusion,this confused me;
1. The Gentiles, that is, YOU & ME....DO
NOT HAVE THE LAW. That is, the Law OF
MOSES wasn't written to US.

Jesus quote the law of Moses and claimed to fullfiled this law, now if the law of Moses wasn't written to us as you said, doesent this mean christ wasn't sent to All nation? But to the Jews? Remember,in acts1:6-8 Jesus command his disciples to preach to All nation.

The second paragraph in the op say;
"When the law was introduced, it was
never intended to be the instrument by
which man would save himself, but it
was the instrument through which man
was to be saved."

When you study every context of Christ ministry, you will see some contradicting statement. At a point, Christ said, don't go to the gentiles. At another point, he said go to all. It was also written, he came to save HIS OWN people. Another said, to save the whole world. At some point, he gives harder laws and at some point, he violates things written in the law. That tells me, it is not what the law says to do but what was written about him in the law that he came to fulfil.

Paul the Apostle by revelation said, Christ came to redeem THOSE under the law. First, who are those people? You and me? Certainly not. 2. If he was redeeming them from under the law, is he putting them back under the law from which he redeemed them?

So, to your questions. Christ operated under the FLESH that is, atmosphere of the law to bury people in the law and he operated under the SPIRIT, that's atmosphere of Grace and truth to show the glimpse of the new covenant. These things you will read in the epistles.

truthman2012:
God at no time canceled the Law given to Moses. In fact Jesus said he came to fulfil it.
Think not that I am come to
destroy the law, or the
prophets: I am not come to
destroy, but to fulfil (Mat. 5:17). Jesus fulfilled the law, setting an example for us.
Please note that you are no more a gentile as soon as you come under the new covenant of Christ. God didn't have a different set of laws for converted gentiles. We are subject to the same Law of God as contained in the bible.
It is the same Law of Moses the bible says God would write in our hear and mind under the dispensation of grace, which is known as the law of the spirit as it is no more on paper, (Heb. 10:16). God did not have any other Law. If the Laws of Moses are irrevant to us, why would God write them in our heart? Hebrews 10:16 is the fulfilment of Jeremiah 31:33, which says and I quote '“This is the
covenant I will
make with the
people of Israel
after that
time,” declares the
LORD.
“I will put my law
in their minds
and write it
on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will
be my people.
Tell me, which law is being referred to here?
If Law and Grace don't co-exist as you earlier said, why are we to obey the law under the grace dispensation, which you have agreed?
Anyway, since you have agreed that despite grace we still have to keep the law, I think we have arrived at a common conclusion. But I want to reiterate that the difference between Law and Grace is that the former is on paper, in which people were under the burden of the law of the flesh while the latter is the law of the spirit, written in our heart and made easy to keep by the enablement of the Holy Spirit. We cannot afford to be lawless as children of God.

Chai, it seems you're still confused or you just want to believe what you want to believe. The Mosaic law as a whole is ABOLISHED by the finished works of Christ, the 10 commandments inclusive. You're left with the law of the Spirit of life through Christ.

If you don't understand the above statement, I will find time to explain but not now. You're mixing up things that's why you thinking the law God was going to write in our heart or spirit is the same as the mosaic law. I will open scriptures for you whenever I have the time.

God bless you!

truthman2012:
What is law and what is grace?

Does it mean because you are under grace you have the liberty to violate God's law? It is the deception of the devil to define grace as lawlessness. So under grace you can kill, steal, commit all manners of sins? No brother.

Grace is unmerited favour. Something you do not deserve but given to you by God and what is that? Salvation. We are saved by grace: For by grace are ye saved
through faith; and that not of
yourselves: it is the gift of
God (Eph. 2:. After salvation, what is next? Lawlessness? ''But if, while we seek to be
justified by Christ, we
ourselves also are found
sinners, is therefore Christ
the minister of sin? God
forbid'' (Galatians 2:17).

Salvation, which is the work of grace is the beginning of righteous walk with God. The beginning of the fulfilment of God's law with enablement by the Holy Spirit.

Study Roman 7 thoroughly and you might discover that grace does not cancel the Law.

My brother, I have studied Romans 7 and the whole of Romans as a whole. If any preacher\teacher of the word hasn't study Roman which is the entry point to the new covenant, such person is yet to begin.

I have never said, Grace means one is lawless. The laws we keep is in obedience to the law of the Spirit, not the Mosaic. This law of the Spirit, you as a Christ knows it is not right to steal, kill etc. But when you don't do these things, someone like you will see it as obeying the things written in the Mosaic law but no, it is not!

The people taught Paul was only talking about some aspects of the Law in Romans 7 but Paul showed that, he was talking about the whole law as one, the 10 commandments inclusive. We're free from all the law. Our obedience is the the law of faith in th Spirit of God which leads to life.

Expanded Bible (EXB)
(Those who are not Jews [Gentiles] do not have the law, but when they ·freely [by nature; instinctively] do what the law commands, they ·are the law for themselves [or reveal their awareness of God’s law]. This is true even though they do not have the law [ the written law of Moses].

King James Bible
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:14

^ The above verses says:

1. The Gentiles, that is, YOU & ME....DO NOT HAVE THE LAW. That is, the Law OF MOSES wasn't written to US
2. It says, WE DO THINGS contained in the law. How? By our nature.....I would call this OUR NEW NATURE in Christ
3. This does not equal obeying the law of Moses even though we see ourselves carrying out what's written in the law of Moses. We are only carrying out BY NATURE of our new man, things contained in the law. So, the Spirit of God in you doesn't tell you to steal, kill, murder etc.

God2man:
Stiginess is a disaster. Cast your Bread upon the Waters after Many days thou shall find it. Givers will continue to get while keepers will lose, Money is a current. It has to be moved or else it will stop flowing. Let what you have move into the life of others, so that people can move into your life to help you. If you continue to keep it from moving, you will be the greatest looser, You cannot become rich until you reach out to others.

As much I agree with the point not to be stingy. However, the ^ above is not the gospel. If God is blessing any man because of how they can give in order to get His blessings, then Grace is no more Grace, it is work transposed.

Amplified Bible (AMP)
But if it is by grace (His unmerited favor and graciousness), it is no longer conditioned on works or anything men have done. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace [it would be meaningless].

King James Bible
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 11:6

malvisguy212:
I like your explanation, we are all here to learn from each other.

The advantage of the law is to revealed our sinful nature(if the law do not say, you shall not kill.,I wouldn't have known that) but man still find it hard to keep the law, the question is What motivate God to meet our need(grace)? It's love;
Romans 5:8
8 But God demonstrates His own love
toward us, in that while we were yet
sinners, Christ died for us.
John15:13
13 “Greater love has no one than this,
that one lay down his life for his
friends.

Grace is an umarited favour from God, we all are sinner and cannot keep the law. The bible defined salvation as the work of God base on the belief of Jesus christ, if we believe in Jesus christ. We will not sin or break the law .we are not under the law of sin and death.

Bless you too brother. Many times I don't like arguing with folks anymore because they believe what they know is final or what they were taught in "their denomination" is the right to go with. I was taught many wrong things in my denomination until I sat with the word myself I discover something different by the Spirit.

What most church people\preacher does is mixture, which is one of the meaning of babylon church. On one hand, we say we're under Grace and we practice the law. On another hand, we say we're not under law but we still go back to the law for somethings. So, which is which? I believe Grace is more than unmerited favor even though it is, but it is more than just unmerited favor. Grace is what God did for man through the DBR (Death, burial & resurrection) of Christ without man's works, character\behaviour and nature.

New Living Translation
The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin's control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins.

English Standard Version
For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

Romans 8:3

Someone above me said, you receive God's grace to be able to live God's law. That's no what Grace does. You live out Christ in you for Grace is in contrast with the law. So you can't receive Grace to live the law. Both don't co-exist.

Joyful77:
[size=14pt] In other words, Jesus said "Do what I say, NOT what I do"!!! [/size]

That's your own interpretation. The law is but until the seed comes. Every context of the law where Christ used it to preach and teach, it is to bury those who were under the law and by his resurrection, those who believe in him, will be married to the resurrected Christ. Ask yourself, why would Christ come to "redeem" those under the law if they where suppose to remain under the law?

You can never understand that verse until you dig the connection between "abolish" and "fulfill" the law. It simply means "somethings are written IN THE LAW about him and that's what he came TO FULFILL, NOT TO ABOLISH". He's not telling you to "continue" to keep the law is he had already fulfill it and it wasn't written about you and to you in the for place, it was written for you.